suboxone users please share info

[Kova]

hello all,

i still can't get my head around the Sub thing.  first let me share my experience with people i know who are being prescribed Sub by a doctor.

first off, all of the doctors in my area who prescribe the Sub charge like 250$ per visit and they make you see at least once a month just for them to say "yes, you are an addict.  here's a script for sub."  my one friend whom i buy it from is supposed to take 16mgs a day, but he takes as little as he can to get by and sells the rest.  then what he'll do (and here is the really crazy part) is actually put himself through a few days of WDs to get the sub out of his system so he can then shoot up dilaudid or whatever else he can get and pays for it with the money he made selling his Sub!!! is THAT dangerous or what?  not to mention that he was diagnosed with ADD and gets prescribed some sort of speed which he also sells to get money to buy more dilaudid!  so obviously he can get by without the speed, and he sells his Sub to get harder stuff.  now, if the Sub is supposed to stop you from having cravings, then obviously it is not working for him.  and he has been having the Sub prescribed for over a year now, so i don't know what kind of tapering plan he is on.

secondly, my brother in law is prescribed Sub to get off of morphine, and his Sub doctor told him that he has to be on it for the rest of his life because he now has all these opiate receptors that will never go away.  THE REST OF HIS LIFE!  to me that sounds just wrong.  he has tried himself to ween off of it but has not been able to kick it completely, and he still has to pay this doctor over $200 a month for a visit to get his script.  to me, it just sounds like the doctor is a dealer!

so what i want to know is, how long are you Sub people supposed to be on it and why that length of time?  i mean, what purpose does it serve to be on it for longer than your normal withdrawals from the drug you were on?  is it supposed to stop cravings?  i don't get it, really.  anyone want to share their experience i would really like to know.  this is making me crazy thinking about it.
as i said in my earlier post, i ran out and bought some Sub this morning and now i really feel like i cheated!  i definitely got some sort of buzz going, and i took 2-3mgs!  my husband is exasperated because i am thinking about doing what i did last week and throwing the rest of what i have away.  i really just wanted to feel normal, and now i feel high.  i guess that must mean that i really don't need to be taking it.
any input greatly appreciated!

Kova

[scaredmommie]

i have been on the sub for 3 weeks now. i have never gotten a buzz from it, but everyone is diffrent. i take 8 to 16 mgs a day now. i started out at taking 24 mgs. my plan with my doctor was to be off them in 4 months. as you see we already started the tapering. and also my doctor charges 175 for the pirst visit then 75 every other visit which is once a month. but the pills here are 6 a pieace. but i feel normal on them. i had a very bad perc addiction. and also my doctor wont let be on the sub program with out meetings and counseling, when i go to see him i have to bring proof that im going, or he will kick me off, he says that just the sub alone will not help people get off the opiates, youi need counseling to help you deal with out anything after the sub is done, and to get down to the bottom of why your are addicted if there is any underlying problems. but i know every doctor is diffrent. im sappost to take 4 to 8 mgs in the morning and 4 to 8 mgs at night but i take it when i feel i need it, not just at a time when im sappost to. i feel as if i take it at at a time everyday i will become to addicted to it, but if i take it when i really need it, im hoping it will lessen my chances.

xoxoxo
<3 chrissy

[cattalina]

You picked a bad day for a post like that!!  Fair warning - I'm miserable, pissed off and probably shouldn't be posting but felt compelled to.  So here goes:

There isnt enough research done on long term sub treatment for ANY doctor to say whether or not it's a good idea.  As far as I know, the research hasn't been done period.  The sub website says you can be on it for the rest of your life, but they also say you can take oxycontin or methadone for the rest of your life too, so who really knows?
What purpose does it serve after acute withdrawals?  It depends on the length of time.  The first 4 months I was on sub I thought it was a godsend, took care of those nasty residual wds AND curbed cravings... which is sub's purpose.  For the next 3 months it continued to help alot but not quite so much.  I have now been on sub for 17 months - actively tapering for about 4 (LONG) months.  Since May of this year sub has had the opposite effect on me.  I no longer have to worry about residual wds from the heroin I got off of LAST YEAR... I have to worry about the SUBOXONE wds - whether I take it or not. Most of the time even taking it makes me feel like I'm withdrawing.  This medication is not as great as all the hype says it is.  Although I'm no longer in active addiction (I don't lie, cheat, steal or kill) I have now aquired a physical dependency on a medication that is ruining my life.  j

If you want to feel normal - GET OFF THE SUB.  If you're done with the acute wds from your doc the sub won't help you anymore.  Stop taking it.  Now.  Save yourself the anguish... trust me.  

Oh and about the doctors prescribing... The two I worked with had no idea what they were doing and didn't care how my life ended up.  My doctors were either the stupidest people on earth or straight up lied to me.  Hopefully they're not all like that, but I know many are.  Sub treatment has become a cash cow for physicians.  Most insurance won't cover the meds or the office visits - the doctors see us for 5 minutes a month and pocket the cash.  Legal drug dealing?  Sounds like it to me.  

I know this was a miserable post - but I needed to get it out.  I still don't feel better but maybe some screaming and breaking of dishes will do the trick!!  LOL  Sorry if I pissed anyone off.  All of the above is ONLY my opinion/experience.  Just needed to vent I guess.  

[Kova]

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!   that is exactly what i was wondering about and you confirmed it all.  it was a great post to me.

again, thank you.

Kova

[cattalina]

No prob... I needed to rant & rave a bit so thank you!!  lol  I have alot of info on sub that I found online if you'd like the links.  It really is eye opening...

Good luck with whatever you choose to do!

[Kova]

no, i think i am going to trust my gut and do a repeat of what i did last week and throw it away.  these damn methadone WDs just last soooo long!  it will be one month on wednesday and i am still fighting physical WDS!!!

again thanks!

Kova

[cattalina]

Yea I've heard methadone can be the worst to come off of...  Definitely trust your gut... our instincts are 99.9% effective!!  :)  Hang in there ok?  If you ever need to just vent (yell scream & pull hair kinda vent!!) let me know!!  lol

[sadinmichigan]

you will get better hun..it does take awhile..what dose were you on of methadone? I agree with catt..you should just deal with the w/ds and then it's over..i know it is hard..i pm'd you back,,now, my experience with methadone w/d was really bad..yours may not be that bad..however a few of the girls here tapered to 25 ,30 and even less...still had w/ds..and from what my friend kim said who went off 23 or 30 she had it no easier than me at 65..even if you get to 1 mg..the w/ds will be there..maybe not so bad..but the way I look at it is to taper down to 1 stinkin mg..and have w/ds that compared to comming off of 20 hydros a day..which i did that too...makes no sense to me.and that statement applies to the people that want to take meth to get off pills..it's crazy...I would have been way better off if i would have c/t the pills in the beginning..

[GoingToMakeIt]

The ones that have had a good experience on sub are many. But many of them are still on it! It seems that those that have taken it and gotten off of it within 3 weeks, are the ones that did good. It has it's place, don't get me wrong. If you have unsuccessfully tried many times to quit or are a hardcore addict, it {may} help.

[worried878]

It is true that we have built new receptors to handle the narcotics when we abused them...the brain accomodates to handle the overload..it is also true that they never go away...but the fact is they will lay dormant after a while(takes up to 3 months for this to occur for most people) if u do not "feed" them with narcotics... so it is possible to quit and not feel depressed the rest of ur life without using a maintenance narcotic....many people have quit and managed without long term sub use or even using sub at all...if someone relapses over and over and just can not stay clean..then the long term sub may be a good option for them but they dont have alot of long term statistics available at this time on sub because it has only been in the last several years that it has become popular...those receptors will not go away...but if we stop feeding them thay will go to sleep...but everytime u use they will wake up again/hence tolerance goes right back to where u were before very quickly..i would choose being on sub for the rest of my life if i needed to verses large doses of narcotics that usually have to be obtained illegally due to growing tolerence levels...i have used sub to supplement in the past when i was out of pills..i was a hydro user so 2 mg would give me quite a jolt..i quit with a quick taper from hydro/basically CT...the sub gave me a high as i was not an extremely large quantity/80-100 mg/ user after reading here what others take daily..are u a chronic relapser?  if u have tried everything and u continue to relapse/especially if u r a high quantity user/long term sub may work well for u....short term taper of sub...21 days or so..helps people get thru the wds more easily without becoming addicted to the sub...hopefully anyway but i have heard people have some wd from the sub at 21 days of use..but it may have still been wd from their DOC...educate urself on what u r taking and what ur goals are...there is an article in my journal that explains the dopamine mechanism and the brain that might be helpful...good luck and stay strong

[cattalina]

GTMI - don't get me wrong... I support certain types of suboxone treatment.  I would advise anyone considering treatment to do LOTS of research before making the decision to start though. LOTS.  I think people should understand the good and the bad of this med.  Had I known prior to starting I wouldn't be in the position I'm in today.  Sub has a place - ABSOLUTELY.  For certain people with certain addiction histories and for a certain length of time.  Unfortunately - doctors have become 'suboxone happy' and are putting people on it that don't need it; or misdirecting length of treatment due to lack of education, experience, knowledge, misunderstanding or just plain greed.  I'm a cynic I know...but sometimes the proof is in the pudding so to speak.  

[LoandTansMom24]

I have been on sub for 3 yrs...yes 3 yrs.  And sumtimes, I wish that I would have stopped takin it a long time ago. For me, the purpose of it was to help me get thru comin off 240 mg/day of oxy. And it did jus that. I think u have to be @ a point in your life that u are tired of havin to scour the earth for drugs that don't even give u a high anymore. U take them to feel normal. I lied, stole, etc. and I was just @ the end of my ropes w/ this disease. I also had a 8 mth old son that was depending on me to take care of him and I jus couldn't do it living the kind of life that I was living. Anyway, I am still on sub. My dr. has NOT given me a time length that I can be on it. As a matter of fact, I did start tapering a couple of times, but got pregnant and the effects of taking sub while pregnant it so different than when you r not. So, I'm back to 24 mg a day and I feel like that even tho I have been on this drug for 3 yrs...@ least I'm not getting it illegally (my insurance covers my dr. visits and pays for almost all of the script), I can function w/out having to make up excuses and lie to my family and friends all the time, and I feel great. Except for the fact that I'm 7 mths preg rite now! LOL So, its up to u. I know I couldn't have done it especially in the beginning w/out the sub. Believe me, I tried!  So, good luck to u!!

[Vicks628]

Dont do it.. it blocks the receptors in ur brain from all other pain mends... i did it and MY  luck had to have stpmach surgery a few days alter!!!! NOOOO pain meds worked on me (in fact, they made the plains worse) and couljd have caused deathe mized witht he morphone!!!! drugs are bad! all of them!!! go thru the pain of withdrawal on ur own and get ur life back!!!
I PROMISE U WILLL!!! u cant see it now but u WILL!L! i never thgouth it before but now i  know gods with me.

Much love, goo luck!

[Kova]

thanks to all who took the time to respond to my post and share your personal experiences with me.  the more i hear the more i learn and i value each and every one of your input.  i see all sides of the subject and have an open mind to anyone who chooses  to use this medication or not, although i don't feel that continuing on the Sub path will benefit me in any way.

again, thanks to all.

Kova

[marcatj]

Sub can be used for short term (detox) or long term (pain management and receptor repair.)

its true that it does allow for your receptors that were damaged from narcotic abuse to be repaired while on Sub.  as well, it allows some the time to gain the tools (while not craving, in general, narcotics) so you can ultimately be pill-free, entirely.

as well, again - it's been used in Europe for pain management for many years.

it is a very personal choice. very.  depends on your need, your track record of relapse, if you have pain and you choose this method for help, and if you believe that it helps your receptors repair (i personally do, as i've seen the change in my mood, overall.  your receptors get depressed over time, after long term narcotic abuse.) as well, there is a statistic that people who have been on it for one year (low dose) - 90% who were on it for one year did not relapse afterward (but other elements of recovery are involved, as well.)

again though - i'd say to ANYONE - read up.  know what you're doing.  it's different for everyone, and everyone's needs are different.

there is no hard and fast rule about Sub that dictates what is good for one, is good for another.

so like any "health care" - take it in to your own hands and know what you are doing...

-mj

[marcatj]

Kova - just saw your last post.

i would also say at the end of the day - most importantly, trust your gut. which sounds like you are... :-)

[TysonRed]

I believe the purpose of sub is for it to be used as a tool for a short term detox, no longer than 4-6months. Yes you are going to have withdrawls from it, some people have got bad info or just misinterpreted its purpose, because there are consequences of using sub. But for some its a very viable option to get clean, I know that with my prior history of opiate abuse(oxy'x and methadone, any other opiate) I tried to quit many different times. Once I did successfully quit methadone for over a year only to go back to taking weaker opiate and eventually back to methadone, when I was trying to quit oxy's and cocaine. It worked as far as that went, but I was left with the same methadone addiction. Now you would think since I had beat it before I could do it again, but I was on dose of (120-140mgs) daily for about a year, I then started to realize the problem again, and sought help. I found an addiciton specialist who tapered me down over 7months to 30mgs. The whole time I was also seeing the head doctor(physciatrist) who suggested after I had gotten to the appropriate dose of methadone to switch over to suboxone. I didnt promise any miracle cure, just another option of detox/tapering instead of doing it with methadone, because I felt I couldnt bear to withstand the methadone w/d's again. The first time I got off methadone about 5yrs ago, I felt terrible for 2months, and didnt feel right for 7-8 months after and that was coming off 50mgs for 2yrs, so this time I decided to go sub route. Im currently on day 62of sub at 3-4mgs depending and will be off within next 60days. I agree its being presribed for many people who should taper their DOC instead of switching to a more powerful opiate to detox on. I really think that if your addicted to an opiate that has a short half life that it is easier to either CT or taper your dose, because your withdrawls will not last as long as sub or methadone or oxycontin. Its a touchy subject and should always be researched thoroughly before using just as every medication you put in your body should. There are also many family people that when using thier usual drugs are incoherent or disoriented all the time and a non-productive part of their family. In my opinion sub does allow that sort of person the freedom to have a treatment plan, not be drugged up nodding in and out of conciousness, and actually be able to work and take care of their kids all the while being on a drug where you atleast can see the end in sight. I will always stick with the fact that if you are able to taper and quit or are stong enough and able to do cold turkey then obviously thats the way to go. Unfortunately everyone is so different in what they take, how long they've been on, what their current situation is, and how the drugs effect them on a daily basis. Someone who's slamming 300mgs of oxycontin everyday killing themselves, you'd have to say for them to take a positive step towards suboxone where they arent dying,and with a good doctor will have a plan and counseling set up to get clean, that has to be the better option. But again I do agree to many people with addictions to shorter acting opiods, the better option is to taper down, even over CT, just because stopping any medication abruptly can have serious consequences, but so can taking a replacement drug. I'll say what I always say, were all here to get clean, how each of us choose to get there is irrelevant in the end if we all end up clean. I know plenty of people who have gotten and stayed clean using suboxone. I will be one of those people soon, another thing I believe is important is when people go on suboxone that they understand this is a tool to get clean, not something to be used as a maintenance drug like methadone, it was specifically designed for another option in replacement therapy that offers a shorter detox period, and hopefully less intense withdrawls then whatever you were taking before. Above posts are right suboxone has its place for many, many have no business taking it, especially at the higher sustained dosages is where most run into sever addiction to buprenorphine. I always write too much, but thought I would throw in my 99cents. Wish you all the best in whatever choice of recovery you've chosen, just keep those thoughts clear and positive on the end goal...to be clean and free from the terrible cycle of addiction. God bless and Good Luck to ALL!!!!

[TysonRed]

Most people Ive heard of who use buprenorphine for pain management use buprenex, which has to be injected daily, or sometimes every other day. I myself have chronic pain in my hip and knee, and sub does nothing to dull the pain, or atleast Ive never noticed any relief. I dont believe Suboxone itself should be used for pain mangement, it wasnt designed to be used for pain management, but Buprenex is a form a buprenorphine designed for pain management. This is only what Ive read, no firsthand experience except for using suboxone, so I suppose I could be wrong, but I know now there are a lot better ways to deal with pain rather than just settling on some opiate to help you endure the pain. To all of those who do have chronic pain, and are looking for alternative methods of pain relief, feel free to send me a message, there are other options than just opiates. Good luck to all you, I wish you a pain free day!

[medusa1961]

First my best wishes and prayers to all of you.  Narcotic addiction almost ruined my life. I was lucky - couldn't stay off pain meds until I found out about Sub and insisted the treatment center try it on me.  I was unable to get through the horrible depression period that followed getting of pain meds.  This was back in 2003, so I guess I was one of the first US patients. I'm still on b/c (but low dose of 4 mg per day) I'm so afraid of detox and w/drawal. Anyway, for me, it has been a blessing.  My prayers are with all of you.  I'm in the Cleveland area, so if you need a doc, I can recommend a few who I feel actually care about you as a human being and not just pocketing the Sub cash.  

[gottastop44]

Thank you sooo much for your info. I have been on hydro's for 2 years t most I take 4 a day.. I contacted a Sub clinicand actually have an apt. today. The man I sopoke to said at first he thought with the low amount I take I would be best to taper myself, but the by the end of our conversation he had me convinced to try and said I wouldn't be on it long. I am sooo scared and don't really know which way to go!

[Willy486]

Do not use Sub for more than 10-15 days, only a quick taper. Sub is the worst of the worst to withdraw from. I was on Sub for 6 months, the WDS were horrible, I had to go back on Norco to get off Sub. At your level CT would be the best bet, Yes you'll suffer, but you will survive. Come join the living, I'm 8 months clean after 5 years, up to 20 norcos a day. Life is really,really good.....

[avisg]

I would taper off 4 a day you are going to be jumping in to something a lot stronger I STRONGY suggest you think about it .If you go to the health pages there are people experiences taking sub read threw that I gives you an idea how other people have done with it.

[worried878]

sub,,,the never ending controversy...a strong "superman" narcotic that people get on thinking it is their freedom..when if not careful it will be their noose/their new ball and chain....there are no facts that say ur receptors repair while on this sticky stuff...it is stuck all over all ur receptors and keeps them content...take it way and then judge if ur NTs healed...NOT!
Many after long term use become depressed on sub just like on their DOC..it can turn on you!  it is the new and more "preppy methadone" but all in all they are very very similar...dont fool urself..sub and methadone have their place...but this stuff about receptors healing on sub is BS!  when u stop it u will know u r not a happy camper...and that is ok for many who need these 2 maintenence drugs to make it to where they need to be even if it for life time use...but just dont fool urself if u r a 100 mg oxy or hydro user that u r on something weaker cos u r not...if u want to be dependent on narcotics for life than this is ur choice and no one here will say ur choice is wrong...just know what u r doing before u get on this superpower narcotic....yes u can get it from the doctors office for addiction/not for pain...yes u can get methadone from a clinic for addiction and from a doctors office for pain and not for addiction....

tapering of with either drug to avoid wds from ur doc is do-able if u really know what u are doing/and if addicts were really cool and disciplined narcotic users/we would not be on this forum/...and if u r so afraid of wds u would chance this/risky business/ both of them/..,,,Actual wds are not so scary tho...it is the aftermath...when u choose a maintenance narcotic..know ur stuff....if u end up addicted to it u will be crying in the rain with no umbrella to help u if u did not do ur homework

[jt808]

first to willy wow what ur telling me that the w/ds from subs are bad i was told that tyhere arent any i was taking norcos for 6 yrs and ate 30-40 a day for the last 2yrs so rite now the dr. got me on 16mgs of subs a day and man this stuff really works ive tried c/t and no way i was to weak and gave up fairly soon but i didnt no that u can have w/ds from sub to have u experienced this firsthand??? and just a personl question i was really wondering how many pills a day were u posters taking im very curious as to how many people take and if im the same/worse/ or less so if u can please answer id greatly appreciate it.

[refusingbondage]

Hi there -  I took suboxone for over 2 years after a 30+/ day painkiller/opiate habit of years and years - I started subs to kick the pills.. spent far too long on the subs and will tell you truthfully and honestly as someone who has been on suboxone and who is now off suboxone (69 days!)  that a long term sub treatment and for many a short term sub treatment does NOT avoid withdrawal. It avoids withdrawal while you are on them, but the withdrawal coming off suboxone for me and for many others (not all though) was far worse than any withdrawal Ive EVER experienced - and I went through withdrawal at various times from almost everything --except methadone. More and more people are coming to the realization unfortunately too late that suboxone withdrawal is one of hardest things to get through ever.  It was for me and many others.  Check out the health pages to the right of the screen - click see all health pages, go to page 2 and there is one titled "members experiences coming off suboxone" its dated 10/14/08.  Read it and anything else you can find re suboxone and get yourself educated about it.  Being on suboxone is not the problem.. getting OFF suboxone is the problem.  Most important is your decision to get clean and get off the pills and you have definitely made a step in the right direction.  Just don't be fooled into the whole sub miracle thing.  Best of luck to you in your recovery!    

[smyleegrl37]

I'm new to this post. I want to say that I am 60 days into the suboxone treatment and I want off.  I have a constant daily battle with myself not to take more than my daily prescribed dose.  While I was in the waiting room for my 2nd doctor visit, there was another patient waiting...the entire time crying and screaming that she was going to die...she was so sick!!!!  This was on a maintenance visit, not her 1st.  That scared me to death. I attend regular NA meetings, have a sponsor, bought the text, read the literature, etc., basically doing everything that I can to learn how to live without drugs.  I had a $100 a day opiate(any kind)habit since the birth of my daughter(she will be 5 this month).  I had tried to kick the habit many times before only making it 4 days until I couldn't take the w/drawls anymore. I can say that the sub helped me to take the step that I needed to admit to my family that I had this problem and now I have their support.  Today I found out that my insurance was not going to cover my script today and I didn't have the money to pay for it, so I though I was going to have to detox off of it.  I talked to my sponsor, who talked to her sponsor and they suggested to me that I keep the appt. and get enough meds to taper.  I am on 16mg a day.  I got 3 days worth and I am starting the taper today.  After reading up, I am really glad that I decided to keep the appt and taper b/c the w/drawals sound terrible.  I do really agree that suboxone serves a purpose but short term only, at least for me.  Everyone is different, but when I thought I wasn't going to be able to have the sub, I cried.  Felt very similiar to 61 days ago when my thoughts were consumed with getting "more". Not for me anymore and I'm ready to taper.  Thank you all for your personal stories, you really helped me with my decision. Good luck to all of you in your recovery.