Aa
tapering off Oxycontin
Hello Everyone,
I am new here. I just joined. I read some of the posts here and was enthralled by the kindness and support of this community. I apologize in advance for the long post, and understand if people do not have the time to read it, or read all of it. Any help is greatly appreciated, and I hope to give back to this community as well. I've been studying drug monographs since I was 13 (it's a very long subject), and though it is no substitute for a pharmacist or doctor, or even self-education, it is something I may be able to use to help others here.
To begin, I should start by telling everyone that I am not a drug addict. I know this is a site for addiction, but everyone is so supportive here; other sites I have been to just do not have the same caring. I hope you will allow me here, but if not, I do understand. (I'd like to qualify this by saying my view of addiction has nothing to do with willpower. I just don't get addicted to things. It's not because I have more willpower than the next person. I just don't "crave" things. My father is the same way, which leads me to believe it is genetic. That is another debate though. I just don't want anyone to think I'm high handed about this.)
My history: I have cardiomyopathy and pulmonary hypertension. Knock on wood, my health is ok. I've had migraines all my life, but three years ago they became chronic and unbearable. Long story short, I was put on Methadone to control the pain two years ago. That continued for a year, then when a severe drug interaction was found with one of my heart meds, I was moved to Oxycontin.
I am subject to rapid tolerance, for some reason. My body has always been atypical in responding to most drugs for just about anything. I also have a severe anxiety disorder. I've had this since I was 14, and am 24 now. I was given Xanax for it, and have used it off and on since 15. For some reason, I've never gotten withdrawal from benzos, and dose escalation was rarely necessary.
So back to a year ago when they put me on Oxy. It worked fine, and took care of the pain. But very quickly the dose would rise, and soon it was not fully taking care of the pain. (I was getting migraines every single day for about 8 hours a day or more. 1 out of 10 days I'd get a break and the pain wouldn't be severe.)
I got up to about 120mgs a day for a short period and hated the feeling. (I never liked the way Oxy felt. Tired, and it made me very depressed. Hydrocodone was much more tolerable, but did not provide the same pain relief.) So my Dr. began rotating meds. Hydromorphone, Oxymorphone, Hydrocodone, Tramadol, etc. That did help keep from having to escalate the dose, but it was confusing, and soon just didn't work. (I should probably mention that we tried every non-narcotic drug for pain first. Gabapentin, SSRIs, etc. Many of the traditional migraine meds could not be used in me because of my heart condition, or because they interacted with one of my 7 heart medications.)
Anyway, long story short(er), one day I woke up, took my pain meds, and noticed that even though I wasn't in pain, I could still "feel" the migraine, and it was almost as uncomfortable as being in pain. So I figured, screw it, if I'm uncomfortable anyway, why take the drugs?
So I stopped taking them. I had heard about opiate withdrawal but no one ever gave me an idea about how bad it was. Within two days, I had diarrhea, nausea, hot/cold sweats. My temperature was NEVER right. It was hell. In addition I got began hallucinating, and developed a depression that was so bad I almost killed myself. Mood swings. The list goes on and on, and I'm sure everyone here knows it. (the only thing I did NOT get was cravings for the drug.) But the depression was the worst thing for me. Growing up with a heart condition you learn to be uncomfortable a lot. I'm not used to losing my mind, too. It's too much at once.
The amazing thing was, my migraines had all but stopped! (And they have continued to decline since, knock on wood. No one can tell me why though, and I just wish someone could give me an idea of why such severe pain would suddenly go away.)
I called the on-call Dr. since it was the weekend, and she told me to go back on the pain meds despite not being in pain, and call my Dr. first thing on Monday. So I did and they put me (in hindsight) on a terrible taper program. They took me from 110mgs of oxy down to 30, then tapered 10mgs off every three days. Needless to say the symptoms were just as bad as Cold Turkey.
So I tried cold turkey again, unsuccessfully. Fast forward a month, and I proposed a taper program to them that I worked on with my pharmacist. Begin at the current dose of 80mgs, and taper 10mgs down every five days. I had Diazepam to help me through it, in addition to Ondansetron for nausea. They also said marijuana may help (which I can take legally in my state, and have used before for nausea when I was younger. I don't like the feeling it produces though, so I prefer the Ondansetron unless I feel I'm about to puke.).
Getting down from 80mgs to 30mgs was a breeze. I'm very lucky for that. But going from 30 to 20 has been murder. I don't know what to do. My docs can't tell me why it would work fine, and then suddenly turn on me. That is one of the reasons I turned to a forum geared for addiction. Because everyone here is away from the theory, and knows these things by experience.
I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm never going to get off this ****. I feel like I'm losing my mind. So I went back up to 30mgs today so I could feel well enough to collect myself and decide how to proceed.
Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.
My idea for the moment is to switch to hydrocodone and go down by 5mgs every 6 days instead of 10mgs every five, like I've been doing. I'm just scared to deviate from the program. And I'd like to get off this **** as fast as possible, needless to say. I have access to pretty much any medication I need. Because of my heart, I have a team of Dr.s and they are all readily accessible by phone and email. With this in mind, if there is a way I can continue on Oxy and taper downward instead of having to switch opiates, I'd prefer that.
I just don't know what supportive drugs to use besides valium and some sort of anti-emetic. I'm open to anything, lifestyle, medication, as long as it is cardiac-friendly. Any suggestions will help. I know there are already posts about tapering, but the reason I'm posting here is because my situation is rather different, and in addition, I could use some emotional support.
I've never been through anything this bad. I've been through heart lung transplant evaluation, surgery, many other bad things I'd rather not say, but nothing compares to how bad this is. It's like no matter what there is to be happy about, I'll look at everything as tragic and sad. Like there's no hope. My mind feels cloudy.
Most of all, I feel lonely. I'm too tired to go see my friends, and my family isn't very helpful. Their attitude is so shrewd. They actually suggested that I stay on the drugs despite not being in pain just so I wouldn't have to withdrawal. I think they just don't want to deal with me anymore. I'm trained in biofeedback, and have practiced meditation for years, and nothing I do seems to help. The only thing that makes me happy is work, but I've been too sick to work with the withdrawal. (Imagine withdrawal, PLUS an existing heart condition. It's hard enough to work with just the heart condition.)
The worst part, ironically, is that there are so many good things happening in my life. But my mind seems incapable of enjoying any of it. I get this horrible succession of violent images when I close my eyes. I feel like suddenly gravity will stop, and I'll float to the ceiling. I just want my mind back. Please help me.
I am new here. I just joined. I read some of the posts here and was enthralled by the kindness and support of this community. I apologize in advance for the long post, and understand if people do not have the time to read it, or read all of it. Any help is greatly appreciated, and I hope to give back to this community as well. I've been studying drug monographs since I was 13 (it's a very long subject), and though it is no substitute for a pharmacist or doctor, or even self-education, it is something I may be able to use to help others here.
To begin, I should start by telling everyone that I am not a drug addict. I know this is a site for addiction, but everyone is so supportive here; other sites I have been to just do not have the same caring. I hope you will allow me here, but if not, I do understand. (I'd like to qualify this by saying my view of addiction has nothing to do with willpower. I just don't get addicted to things. It's not because I have more willpower than the next person. I just don't "crave" things. My father is the same way, which leads me to believe it is genetic. That is another debate though. I just don't want anyone to think I'm high handed about this.)
My history: I have cardiomyopathy and pulmonary hypertension. Knock on wood, my health is ok. I've had migraines all my life, but three years ago they became chronic and unbearable. Long story short, I was put on Methadone to control the pain two years ago. That continued for a year, then when a severe drug interaction was found with one of my heart meds, I was moved to Oxycontin.
I am subject to rapid tolerance, for some reason. My body has always been atypical in responding to most drugs for just about anything. I also have a severe anxiety disorder. I've had this since I was 14, and am 24 now. I was given Xanax for it, and have used it off and on since 15. For some reason, I've never gotten withdrawal from benzos, and dose escalation was rarely necessary.
So back to a year ago when they put me on Oxy. It worked fine, and took care of the pain. But very quickly the dose would rise, and soon it was not fully taking care of the pain. (I was getting migraines every single day for about 8 hours a day or more. 1 out of 10 days I'd get a break and the pain wouldn't be severe.)
I got up to about 120mgs a day for a short period and hated the feeling. (I never liked the way Oxy felt. Tired, and it made me very depressed. Hydrocodone was much more tolerable, but did not provide the same pain relief.) So my Dr. began rotating meds. Hydromorphone, Oxymorphone, Hydrocodone, Tramadol, etc. That did help keep from having to escalate the dose, but it was confusing, and soon just didn't work. (I should probably mention that we tried every non-narcotic drug for pain first. Gabapentin, SSRIs, etc. Many of the traditional migraine meds could not be used in me because of my heart condition, or because they interacted with one of my 7 heart medications.)
Anyway, long story short(er), one day I woke up, took my pain meds, and noticed that even though I wasn't in pain, I could still "feel" the migraine, and it was almost as uncomfortable as being in pain. So I figured, screw it, if I'm uncomfortable anyway, why take the drugs?
So I stopped taking them. I had heard about opiate withdrawal but no one ever gave me an idea about how bad it was. Within two days, I had diarrhea, nausea, hot/cold sweats. My temperature was NEVER right. It was hell. In addition I got began hallucinating, and developed a depression that was so bad I almost killed myself. Mood swings. The list goes on and on, and I'm sure everyone here knows it. (the only thing I did NOT get was cravings for the drug.) But the depression was the worst thing for me. Growing up with a heart condition you learn to be uncomfortable a lot. I'm not used to losing my mind, too. It's too much at once.
The amazing thing was, my migraines had all but stopped! (And they have continued to decline since, knock on wood. No one can tell me why though, and I just wish someone could give me an idea of why such severe pain would suddenly go away.)
I called the on-call Dr. since it was the weekend, and she told me to go back on the pain meds despite not being in pain, and call my Dr. first thing on Monday. So I did and they put me (in hindsight) on a terrible taper program. They took me from 110mgs of oxy down to 30, then tapered 10mgs off every three days. Needless to say the symptoms were just as bad as Cold Turkey.
So I tried cold turkey again, unsuccessfully. Fast forward a month, and I proposed a taper program to them that I worked on with my pharmacist. Begin at the current dose of 80mgs, and taper 10mgs down every five days. I had Diazepam to help me through it, in addition to Ondansetron for nausea. They also said marijuana may help (which I can take legally in my state, and have used before for nausea when I was younger. I don't like the feeling it produces though, so I prefer the Ondansetron unless I feel I'm about to puke.).
Getting down from 80mgs to 30mgs was a breeze. I'm very lucky for that. But going from 30 to 20 has been murder. I don't know what to do. My docs can't tell me why it would work fine, and then suddenly turn on me. That is one of the reasons I turned to a forum geared for addiction. Because everyone here is away from the theory, and knows these things by experience.
I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm never going to get off this ****. I feel like I'm losing my mind. So I went back up to 30mgs today so I could feel well enough to collect myself and decide how to proceed.
Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.
My idea for the moment is to switch to hydrocodone and go down by 5mgs every 6 days instead of 10mgs every five, like I've been doing. I'm just scared to deviate from the program. And I'd like to get off this **** as fast as possible, needless to say. I have access to pretty much any medication I need. Because of my heart, I have a team of Dr.s and they are all readily accessible by phone and email. With this in mind, if there is a way I can continue on Oxy and taper downward instead of having to switch opiates, I'd prefer that.
I just don't know what supportive drugs to use besides valium and some sort of anti-emetic. I'm open to anything, lifestyle, medication, as long as it is cardiac-friendly. Any suggestions will help. I know there are already posts about tapering, but the reason I'm posting here is because my situation is rather different, and in addition, I could use some emotional support.
I've never been through anything this bad. I've been through heart lung transplant evaluation, surgery, many other bad things I'd rather not say, but nothing compares to how bad this is. It's like no matter what there is to be happy about, I'll look at everything as tragic and sad. Like there's no hope. My mind feels cloudy.
Most of all, I feel lonely. I'm too tired to go see my friends, and my family isn't very helpful. Their attitude is so shrewd. They actually suggested that I stay on the drugs despite not being in pain just so I wouldn't have to withdrawal. I think they just don't want to deal with me anymore. I'm trained in biofeedback, and have practiced meditation for years, and nothing I do seems to help. The only thing that makes me happy is work, but I've been too sick to work with the withdrawal. (Imagine withdrawal, PLUS an existing heart condition. It's hard enough to work with just the heart condition.)
The worst part, ironically, is that there are so many good things happening in my life. But my mind seems incapable of enjoying any of it. I get this horrible succession of violent images when I close my eyes. I feel like suddenly gravity will stop, and I'll float to the ceiling. I just want my mind back. Please help me.
I'm sure you have tried this already but what about Acupuncture? Can help with many different systoms?
Your story goes to show that we are all different. You may be addicted but you shouldn't have the relapse issues because you never craved narcs or got pleasure from them. For me it was all about the pleasure and escape hence the craving and relapse. All the best and I'm interested in how all this ends.
Thank you everyone for your advice and support. I definitely became dependent on narcotics, as evidenced by the withdrawal. But I never had cravings for the drugs. I never even really experienced pleasure from them. I always hoped maybe there would be a nice feeling associated with them, but it never made me happy, or high or anything like that.
The couple of times I was in a large amount of pain, and had to take high doses at once, I felt "different." Dry mouth, etc. alot of things that would lead me to believe I was high, like the twitching, but I actually hated the feeling.
I don't crave escape, I crave normalcy.
cattalina, you are absolutely right that talking it through makes me feel MUCH MUCH better. I feel like I'm not so alone anymore, and talking it through helps make more sense of it.
I know a good deal about the chemistry involved with all of this. I "worked" (long story) in a medical research lab for 4 years. I find that all of the theory in the world doesn't help much with the reality of a medical problem. My Dr.s agree. I've always been an atypical case in the way I manifest virtually any disorder or condition.
Even my heart condition has been assessed by at least 3 dozen doctors (probably more) and none of them have seen cardiomyopathy in this way before. It's scary and lonely, and on top of it--with the opiates. Life just seems very overwhelming right now. It's always been overwhelming, but now more than a long time.
For some reason, finding things to be thankful for just makes me feel worse. It makes me feel guilty for feeling bad. I don't know how to reconcile that morally or ethically. I think in talking it through, one of the things that would make me feel better is to give myself "permission" to complain, and be unhappy. In fact, just saying that makes me happier.
I swear, my psychiatrist is going to apply for early retirement because of me. lol.
Thank you all again, and I'll keep posting, and if I find anything along the way that may be helpful to anyone else, I'll be sure to document it and post it as well.
The couple of times I was in a large amount of pain, and had to take high doses at once, I felt "different." Dry mouth, etc. alot of things that would lead me to believe I was high, like the twitching, but I actually hated the feeling.
I don't crave escape, I crave normalcy.
cattalina, you are absolutely right that talking it through makes me feel MUCH MUCH better. I feel like I'm not so alone anymore, and talking it through helps make more sense of it.
I know a good deal about the chemistry involved with all of this. I "worked" (long story) in a medical research lab for 4 years. I find that all of the theory in the world doesn't help much with the reality of a medical problem. My Dr.s agree. I've always been an atypical case in the way I manifest virtually any disorder or condition.
Even my heart condition has been assessed by at least 3 dozen doctors (probably more) and none of them have seen cardiomyopathy in this way before. It's scary and lonely, and on top of it--with the opiates. Life just seems very overwhelming right now. It's always been overwhelming, but now more than a long time.
For some reason, finding things to be thankful for just makes me feel worse. It makes me feel guilty for feeling bad. I don't know how to reconcile that morally or ethically. I think in talking it through, one of the things that would make me feel better is to give myself "permission" to complain, and be unhappy. In fact, just saying that makes me happier.
I swear, my psychiatrist is going to apply for early retirement because of me. lol.
Thank you all again, and I'll keep posting, and if I find anything along the way that may be helpful to anyone else, I'll be sure to document it and post it as well.
high doses of narcotics can also make a person feel ocd..u would have to be clean for a bit to evaluate..to know ur true balance....it is hard to tell who u r when u r loaded up on narctoics......when u get off of them things could level out after qa few months and u could get a look at how u really feel..keep posting
Taking high doses of opiates for an extended period of time plays with your brain's natural chemical balance. Whether your an addict abusing opiates or taking them for legitimate reasons. For so long now the opiates have taken over supplementing dopamine, seratonin etc. that your brain stopped producing its own. Now that you're lowering your dose and coming off, your brain has to find a way to produce it's own chemicals again. That being said - putting a label on yourself and starting treatment now is jumping the gun. Some type of ant-depressant/anti-anxiety med would certainly be of more help to you at this point. Or even amino acids (listed under Amino Acid Protocol in the health pages.) Due to the health issues you listed I would strongly encourage you to ask your doctor before starting ANY type of supplement just to be safe. But it will take time for your brain to recover from the damage the opiates caused. Being in your situation must be tough... Having that kind of pain that is only curbed by opiates yet opiates essentially ruin our brains... Even tho you are not an addict, you'll find that many people here will try to help you out as much as they can. One of the things that helps the most with the emotional overload is to talk about it. Once it's out in the open it's easier to deal with for some reason. Good luck to you!!
it hard to say for sure you are not addicted or dependant but you are habituated to these narcotics. If you are not a true addict then you won't have any problem relapsing after you finish detox because you won't crave them as I did. The problem is that you sound like you need pain meds and that's the tough call , no esay answers for that . all best
I've been reading for the last couple of hours, and I think I have a little bit better idea of what maybe going on.
I was reading about OCD (obsessive compulsive), and the article mentioned how opiates are being used off-label for intractable cases. So perhaps I've had OCD for some time now, and going off the Oxy has uncovered it in a big way.
I wonder if getting treatment for OCD may help. The physical symptoms of the withdrawal are no longer very bad. It's mostly mental, but mental to the extreme.
I was reading about OCD (obsessive compulsive), and the article mentioned how opiates are being used off-label for intractable cases. So perhaps I've had OCD for some time now, and going off the Oxy has uncovered it in a big way.
I wonder if getting treatment for OCD may help. The physical symptoms of the withdrawal are no longer very bad. It's mostly mental, but mental to the extreme.
there are some great articles in the health pages...also on tapering and the thomas recipe...keep posting and taper responsibly/which can be a challenge for many...writing it out..handing over ur pills to someone and picking a QUIT day are good ideas
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