tapering

[PING]

does anyone know anything about the med neurontin? my dr says to give it a try, i am tapering off of oxycontin, thanks to anyone that can help.
                               lee.

[ColdInVT]

Hi - it looks like a medication that is commonly prescribed for epilepsy(sp?)and other neurological issues - not sure how this correlates to getting off from Oxy...

Good luck :)

[hippy]

my father takes neurontin for leg spasams
and poor circulation in his feet.
he has per-riferal  nur-rop-athy.
it has allowed him to walk agian ,without

dibiltateing pain. he is 80 years old.

my mother inlaw had taken  neurotin for
severe leg cramps/ restless leg.
she got swithched to bac-la -fin.

peace!!!!!!!!!hippy
sorry for the weird spelling/ i am bad with spelling.

[PING]

thanks to all, hippy, i am 72, and i do have leg cramps like your father. so thanks again.
                             lee.

[mrmichael67]

Neurontin is used in pain management for nerve pain.  That is one of its side effects.  I have used it for neuropathic pain from my spinal fusions.  I get a nasty pain that shoots down my leg starting at my buttock and ending at my foot.  It has helped many people.  But, it has also not helped many people, me being one of them.

[Percalot]

I first neurontin last year when I was going to mental health to see if there was something that I could take to ease the pain of withdrawals.  To mt surprise, they actaully helped.  Up until that point I had lost hope in all psychotropics and thought that this wa just another b*llsh*t drug.  It also helped to stabilize my moods an calm my nerves.  Of course there is no magic cure for opiate withdrawal, but as far as any non-controlled substance goes that would be the first that I would recomend.  Of course eveeryones' body chemistry is different and what may work on one may not necessarily work on another.  I support it-almost resembles the effects of valium.  I did use it whene I was tapering come to think about it.  Good Luck with it,
                                                  Cheers,
                                                        percalot

[bmac]

Hey Lee. How ya been friend? I will have to email you and keep you up to date. I used that med once and it did help the pain alittle. Don't know if detoxing with it will help.
                   Bill

[AmberHunter]

i don't know about neurontin and detoxing but i do know about taking it for sleep.

i take 800 mg. of neurontin and 50 mg. of seroquel for sleep. it works great and neither drug get me high so they are safe to take!~

there are alot of off label indications for neurontin so it doesn't suprise me at all that a doc would try it for detox... don't know if it works but it is interesting to hear!

i do know that it is terribly expensive if you don't have insurance! i plan to keep taking it and have finally found a way to sleep that didn't involve taking hypnotics! (ambien etc...)

amber

[Lostgirl]

I have enough Hydro to taper off but need some advice on whether this wilt work with the least amount of side affects.  And how much WDs will I still have?  8,7,6,5 for 3 days then 4&3 for 4 days then 2& 1 for a week.  Does this sound good or should I adjust it?  I have the xanax and clonadine.  Do I need to take them while I am tapering?  I know that every one feels you should go to your Dr. but I agree with the one person who said they were worried about their medical records.  I am self insured and it was hard enough to get coverage with taking Deression Meds.  I actually got turned down by BC/BS becuase I was taking it.  They say they have to offer everyone insurance and they do but they make it so expense that you wont get it or wont be able to afford it.  

I went CT last time and obviously I was miserable and it took weeks to get back to work.  I dont have that option this time.  

Just not sure what to do, but I can't keep falling of the wagon and letting the wagon train continue to run over me.

[percsnomas]

I like your tapering schedule!!!
You will dramatically reduce your misery following that routine!!!  Remember, it still won't be painless, but keep reminding yourself what the reward will be!!!
As far as the other meds, I'd save them(or use very sparingly)till you get to the end of the taper.
It is worth pointing out, that your schedule will last just over a month, so i definately wouldn't want to be taking xanax during the entire time, as you would certainly risk being hooked to a med with a much nastier(and lengthy) withdrawal.

It sounds like you are prepared, and have all the tools; so the very best luck to you in the execution!!!!

percs

[Lostgirl]

Thanks for the encourangement.  I just took my first two for the day and it is already 6pm here.  One biggest thing I worry about is the pain will surface once I am done.  I do Have a legit reason to take them and we did try all the NSAIDS to no avail.  Hards part is the pain in my hands makes it very hard to work.  But like I read some else say "I like myself better on Drugs".  Last time I went off Tabs, everyone wanted to know what was wrong with me, why wasn't I talking and telling jokes like I always do?  It just was a great courage in a pill for me.  Obviously I know the psycho dynamics that "that person already exists in me"  but it sure was easier to leave the house and talk to people when I was high and not hurting.  It is hard to be hurting at 41.  Kids are used to me doing anything with them.  

What kind of WDs will I have if I taper off?  And I definately wont take the Xanax for a month!  I have so much of it!  They just kept giving it to me and I tried to take even the lowest dosage and it would knock me out for 12-14 hours.  So obviously that wasn't what I wanted.  I took them last time when I CT but there was no way I was going to sleep with out them.

Are you from the SW?  Hence the No Mas

[Lostgirl]

The other thing that I dont' understand is everyone keeps talking about how much energy they got from taking Hydro or Tabs and how they got so much done.  Over the past year I have sunk in a whole.  The only thing I get done is watching tv and reading.  I can't sit still long enough to accomplish anything and my mind just wanders off to the new subject.  I feel absolutely worthless. I work for a family business and I am so far behind.  I just try to get the minimum done and just lie about the rest.  The guilt is enormous!!!!  I am months behind, I do the books for the business and payroll and stuff.  I get the payroll out and make the necessary stuff.  But the last two months I didn't even get the bills out.  Pretty pathetic Huh?  then to make matters worse I started to smoke again.  While that might not stop to many people from working It does me!  I have this self imposed rule that I can only smoke out side or by the fire place.  Needless to say neither of these places are in my office!  I Just stay up until all hours in the AM watching shows I have taped and chain smoking. By the time I go to of bed it is 2-3 in the morning and then of course I don't get out bed until 10-11 and then I have to go and take a nap in the afternoon.  Does anyone else zonk out like that? or just want to sit around? It is like I don't want to leave this coccoon.  I am well aware that opiates cause depression and I already have that prob that was really under control before, but I guess it is now.  I am starting to freak out becuase my Boss is going to call and talk about the situation here shortyly.  She said she is well aware that things are not right and something needs to be done.  The Boss=Mom ! Scary right!  She said that she was planning on a leave of absence and have someone take over for me.  That would just kill me.  I really wouldn't have anything left for me If I didn't atleast have my job, regardless of the fact tthat I am not getting everything done.  It would just make me feel more of a failure.  I don't think I will ever live up to what she wants me to be.  I know that I shouldn't worry about what she wants me to be, but I feel that I should have something of her approval at this time in my life.  I really dont' want to loose my job either.  I could never start over working anywhere else. I wouldn't have the time with my kids. One is in HS and the other in Middle school, and my oldest has been shipped off to Baghdad in the morning.  Does anyone else have the prob of forgetting things constantly while they are taking?  So I really don't have too much to worry about!    I guess that I should stop rambling.  Have company coming.  Just what I need now!!  But that is me never say no!

[oxic]

I'm at home now.
Actually i live in Canada, but did take spanish in university eons ago.  I'm also 41.

You want me to tell you what your withdrawals will be like; as i mentioned, if you follow that tapering plan, you will definately reduce the symptoms......you know the usual flu-like feeling, runs, sneezing, restless legs/arms, depression, etc.  Several other factors will dictate how they play out----like how long you've used, how many times you've quit, etc.  All i know is tapering lets your body(and mind) down easier.....and if you are only on your 1st and 2nd of the day, you are well on the way. For me, the most intense days were the first 2 after i got to zero percs....BUT TOTALLY MANAGEABLE.

As far as the pain goes, that is something you have to be totally honest with yourself about.  I've had 2 back surgeries, and required some narcs, but nowhere near the quantity and duration that i did.  I talked myself into all kinds of "extra" pain, and therefore justifying my useage.  Again, noone but yourself can measure that one!!

I definately get that feeling that your hydro romance is getting close to an end, when you talk about having no motivation, etc.  It is ironic, in that it all starts out kind of warm and fuzzy, and the energy buzz; but as useage builds with tolerance, they actually start sucking the life right out of a person.
There are gagillions(hows that for a word)of reasons that cause people to quit, and i'm not sure which will be the drivers for you......perhaps simply the sick and tired of being sick and tired feeling ; i guess as long as you acccomplish reclaiming your life, thats what matters!

I always tell people(myself included) to shed the guilt; after all, we're only human.

I hope you keep us posted , and know I"M PULLING FOR YOU!!!

percs(no more)

[Lostgirl]

Thanks for the respond.  I love the forum, but I feel so lost when it takes forever to hear from someone.  My basic intant gratification thing again.  This is the second time.  I am back up to 10-12 a day 10s.  Sometimes I just don't keep track. Late at night I just sit her at the fireplace and chain smoke and keep taking them.  Waiting for that high. It hasbeen a year since I quit last time.  

I do have pain, but you are right about judging it.  I do get to the point that it is really bad, especially my hands and lower back (broke tail bone).  Once without taking any meds it got so bad that by the time I got to the docs my blood pressure and temp were up just from the pain.  They actually said that I needed to take something to ease the pain.  But of course that just sent me back on the old path.  I was good at first, but we all know how long that lasts.  I have both CTS and arithis in my hands and we found that last time I guit.  The meds had masked it a long time.  It gets to the point were I just end up with little fists and have no controll with my hands they just curl up on their own.  I know that if I take more time to exercise and move more often from my chair in my office I could probably reduce the back pain.  I totally quit exercising when I went down the drug path.  Also, instead of loosing weight I gained, but this is not the weight loss program that I was looking for!  You and any one else is welcome and encouraged to send me emails directly.  ***@****  I am on the computer all day.  Supposedly working but that doesn't seem to be the way lately.  Thanks!

[Hydroholic]

Hi lostgirl and everyone! This is the first day I have made a post, but as I read your post about the lack of energy, I would have sworn I posted that paragraph instead of you! I absolutely have NO ENERGY to do anything! I sit up to 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning and watch video's (sometimes same one over and over) read, eat hydro's and drink about a case of cokes a day (for the proverbial dry mouth) and smoke like a freight train! Some life, huh? I have ruined my credit by not paying my bills. I know they are there on the desk-sometimes(I've acually had the mailman return my mail to the post office, because my box was full, and I never got it out), keep intending to pay them, and the next thing I know, I turn on the faucet and no water, or blink, no lights. I have no clue why I do this! I decide one day they have to be paid, take 2 or 3 hydro's to pay the bills (Sad huh?) and wait to feel better, and ususally my mind drifts off and I watch a movie or something. I don't work, I sit in a dark room in a reliner (that's also my bed) and watch movies. I have no appetite-none! But drink enough sugar cokes and with the intestinal slowdown from the hydro's, I never lose an ounce of weight. I have to make myself bathe, cook, go out of the house, or anything. When I run out of cokes or cigs, It motivates me to get to the convenient stop. My goodness, if I quit, will I feel more tired and more of a lack of energy than I have now? I can't imagine! I am ashamed to say these things! Am I just Lazy? I didn't used to be, before I had my back and neck surgeries I worked for 18 years, raised a child and kept my home spotless. Is anyone besides me and lostgirl in this boat? I would love to know, I thought it was just me being a lazy slob! I have been taking at 20 10/650's a day for years!

[Lostgirl]

Welcome to my Life!  Now add two teenagers, plus this is the neighborhood house and a son who is married and has a daughter that is being shipped off to Baghdad.  Are you still takin the Hydros? You must be on the East coast, you post went in for the 24th and it is only 1050 here in NM.  I think you left out the part where you actually wear something other than sweats or stretchpant or PJs. LOL  

I do all my grocery shopping at Walgreen's now!  It is close and has Starbucks fraps and cigs at good prices.  Everyone there knows me.  that is pathetic.

How much are you taking?  What are you taking, how long? How did you start? Send all your particulars!  Since you are up so late you shouldn't mind giving me a dissertaion on your life!  

If you prefer you can email me directly at ***@****

Would love to trade stories!

[Hydroholic]

Well we know we're twins in the hydro nights! Ha! I take around 20 10/650's Hydrocodone per day. I started this after surgery about 15 years ago, but I was taking them for the pain (I justified) Then I knew I was taking them to function! I actually ran out one time and had no idea how to get more (had just moved in a new town) and panicked and was taking anything I could find in the house. I took some Ephedrine Sulfate 8mg. that was in a pill called BACK-QUELL and I really didn't have the withdrawal's bad at all. But I would panic without the pick-me-up from the Ephedrine. I don't know if I was hooked on the Ephedrine or if it was just keeping me off the hydro's. After about 3 months I went back on the hydro's for surgery and as they say "The Rest Is History" or the same sad story, every which one you want to call it! That was I guess about 7 years ago and I still am counting pills and worrying about having enough to live. Panicking when I get low, and so forth and so on. I have no life with this monkey on my back. I would give ANYTHING to be rid of these MONSTERS! I am in the process of moving and relocating and I honestly don't think it would be a time to withdraw, (or maybe it's just an excuse) But I have every intention of quitting as soon as I get settled. I'll go inpatient if need be. I don't care anymore what I have to do. Just thinking of the money I have spent on the street makes me sick! Let alone what it has done to me and my life(You know the one we had, before we became, "Lorcet Couch Potatoes!") The last time I tried to quit, a few years ago, I got sooo sick by the forth day, I knew I would die before the day was over, (Jerking all over, sweating like a Pig, and my legs were KILLING ME!) made an appointment with another doctor (didn't want to tell my script doc just in case!) and prepared to bare my soul and beg for help, and he "I swear on my life" gave me a script of 60 10/650's and told me I would have to always take pain meds with the pain from my physical condition! I really believe if he had helped me get off then, I would have had a chance! But I took it as providence, went to the drug store, got them filled, took 3 as soon as I got to the car and was well in a matter of minutes! Familiar story! Too easy to stop the pain and cravings, Just knowing that a pill will fix that sickness, is hard to overcome!

[Lostgirl]

Where are you relocating? Is it a big move? Is it a new job?  Do have a partner/spouse?  How about children at home?  What did you have surgery for?  I keep having to go back to your post becuase my brainis at its regular "What, huh?" point.  Maybe if you move to a larger city you can go to a pain managemnt clinic and they can help you with the meds.  Or if you have to take the meds you can find a good doc, you can get your RX filled and then can give it to the docs and you can pick up you meds on a daily basis.  That way you cant check too much.  Becuase I know that self control is not going to happen in most situations.  Atleast with myself.  Last time I had really bad back pain, he wrote a script and told me to take it and come back in two days becuase I was so tight that they couldn't even make an adjustment to get an alignment.  Last year I did tell him that I want to stop taking all the meds and he gave me clonipine to help, but that was after I had gone CT and had been clean for about 2 mos.  But like I said it got bad again and I had my blood pressure go up and started running a temp becuase I was in so much pain.  I thought I could handly it.  I was pretty good for a couple of weeks and took as directed.  But that went right out the window.  The last couple of months I have been driving through TX to Lousiana from NM and that just kills me.  I start having such bad pain and then I am just constantly swallowing becuase it takes so much to even hit the pain because I have take so much recreationally.  Kinda like "poking your eyes out becuase they are ugly".  Well maybe not that metaphor.  I heard someone else say that they liked the way the were when they were high.  I guess that I would have to agree with them.  I feel that I can be a social person.  Not becuase of the pain, but becuase I can leave the house and not feel like I am going to freak out.  I know that this is all my self-esteem.  Email me, it will be faster than checking the boards constantly!  Now that youare my twin!  It is 12:20 am and I am no where close to going to bed.  How about you.

***@****

[no!more!]

hey i dont know if you got my other messages under new here i hope so i realize it is full right now i hope that doesnt mean its the end of our writting please reply if you get any of my messages your friend Jodie

[oxic]

Yep, i just got it......of course we can be friends.
We've had a hell of a snow storm today; not sure if it hit you??

So how did you manage today?? Did you hold at 19, or come down a bit.

You know, we really must get your tylenol intake down.  I'm not going to rag you about it.......but you've been well over 4 grams/day of tylenol, day after day, which is most hard on your liver and kidneys.  Assuming you don't have any underlying conditions that could cause a problem, i would strongly suggest you picking up some Milk Thistle.  It is a very good promoter of liver healing(and protection), and is one of the better anti-oxidants.



percs

[bodhistar]

I just finished reading all of the posts available on this site and am amazed (and strangely comforted) by what I have read. I am trying desperately to get off methadone that I was taking for the excrutiating pain I had relating to several tumors I recently had removed.  I was taking 80 mg. a day, with 1200 mg. neurontin and a bunch of ritalin to keep me upright.  Well, I had surgery about 6 weeks ago and am no longer in pain.  So, naturally, I think, it's time to get off all this medication.  So, I cut all doses in half (except neurontin as it helps with anxiety)...no problem.  Then, I cut in half again, no problem.  Then I stop the ritalin...no problem.  now, I'm only on 20 mg of methadone and I can't get off!!!  I am trying to break up the pills in quarters and take say 3/4 of a pill in the morning and a whole one in the afternoon.  at this rate, I should be off sometime next year.  But what amazes me is that I have turned into a complete blob.  While on my meds, with my cancerous tumors intact and growing, I could go anywhere, walk to the moon, climb stairs...you get the picture.  Now, I could just sit on my couch and die if it were possible.  I have shortness of breath, depression, apathy, anxiety, sweats, chills, no concentration.  my doctors keep asking me if I am going to hurt myself.  fortunately, I have strong buddhist beliefs that prevent me from doing anything harmful to anyone including myself.  but the weekends...i don't even get dressed anymore.  I move from the bed to the couch and back to the bed.  I don't answer the phone.  I haven't paid bills forever...i went through debt consolidation so someone else would pay all my bills for me.  the two I couldn't include are constantly behind.  someday they will shut off my electric.  but I don't care.  I can't function.  Will this ever change?????????  I can't live like this.

[no!more!]

hey thank you for the advice (well taken i will get the antioxidant as soon as possible) and no you are far from raggin on me i do need to get my pills down thats for sure and i know people make excusses but i swear i have had it VERY difficult the last few days but to be honest there have been alot of times i almost reached for them for the high (which would be 24 of them) and i couldnt because i know i have gone down one level at least and i did get really sick and i do not want to be there again and i dont think i told you but i do have a legit reason to be on painkillers and i have been in quite abit of pain since i slowed down and been offered everything from percs to morphine to demerol and i will not do it i know i would be worse off than i am now  anyway i cant beleive you had a snow storm that sucks we had a beautiful day today   no **** i cant beleive that thats some pretty weird weather hopefully it doesnt stay  i also dont know something maybe you could help me    once i get my level of intake right down do you  think it is best for me to quit all together or can i still use them on occasion for my pain ( i have a rare disease and am going crippled in my legs and lower spine) i just thought i would ask because i will not take the other painkillers i am to scared of them i want to remember these years with my kids not always be strung out on some morphine or something anyway thanks your neighbor and friend Jodie    (this is the part i hate about the forum is waiting not knowing when you will reply lol)

[oxic]

Jodie, you've now introduced a very important new part to the equation........pain, and pain management.
When i first was introduced to you, it was as a person taking 24 T-3's per day for the buzz/energy. (I don't think i read anywhere about your unfortunate condition)
I understand about wanting to be clear-headed while your kids grow up; but if that comes with a cost of you suffering, i'm not so sure.  There are other meds out there, longer acting ones(without the tylenol), that are very effective(and allow you to be lucid while taking them).

I guess i'm just a lit'l confused, as i don't know your condition, or your situation that well.

[no!more!]

well when i was 12 i had a operation my hip bone was falling out of the socket (probably spelt wrong) anyway since then ive had 3 more opperations and now i have about 65% of bone left in my hip along with arthritis that has also gone into my lower back and having children really made it alot worse because both of my kids were C-section because of my hip but the needles they used in my back (spinnal is what i had) i could barely move the first 8 weeks after my second child and now i have constant pain and sometimes the nerve in my back acts up and my legs go all funny with pain and numbness its really hard to explain but this is a real short version i also cant take any  anti inflamitories because i get real sick which is why they had to go to the tylenol area now he (my doctor) is trying to put me on oxycontin but i think i would be in a world of **** trying to use those (as i have read in this forum) i will be going to a pain clinic in vancouver but it is a long waiting period just to get in so anyway this is why tylenol was my drug of choice and didnt realize at first i was taking it for pain witch turned into a buzz i just thought now that i have come to grips with this that after i get it under control should i carry on for pain only i truly beleive i would be able to do it because i know where i am now and will not ever let myself be here again anyway i just wanted to know what you think about my thoughts on this thanks again your friend Jodie

[oxic]

That is a toughy Jodie!!!

There are definately people out there that can take their meds responsibly..........I'M NOT ONE OF THEM.
It sounds like you have the "awareness" now, and maybe that is enough to get you taking yours responsibly(although once you've chased the buzz, it can be difficult ).
I think the first thing to do is see where you are at with your pain before making any drastic desicions.

So we should get you tapered down(as we discussed), and take things from there; as it has been some 4 years of taking codeine at a fairly high level. This taper still could take some time.
How many did you take yesterday(and today so far?)

[no!more!]

hey there!!  i took 15 yesterday and just took the rest of my 15 today so i hope that is doing well when i slipped i took 19 still 5 less than usual but to tell you the truth i will not go over 19 at all anymore now not tomorrow but the next day i want to go down to 13 for 4 days does that sound about right? i noticed another thing when i went from 24 to 14 those 2 days i dont know if you remember but anyway my head got all stuffed up and i know i didnt have a cold but my mouth was constantly full of saliva and i would choke until i threw up WHAT THE HELL IS THAT ABOUT!!  freaks me out let me tell you its like my body got used of having dry mouth from the pills and then it tried to make up for it i also have Lorazapam for panick attacks and been to chicken to take any (scared they will nock me on my ass) will they help me at night to sleep or will they make me sleep right through my baby (SHE IS 2 YEARS OLD) waking up just wondering if you knew by the way you seem to be very educated on this stuff are you  in the medical profession? anyway i will wait for your reply now take care your friend Jodie

[no!more!]

hey i just had to tell you my husband got a job tonight and we are so excited i just had to tell a friend your friend Jodie

[percsnomas]

Cutting back to 13 sounds good to me, and staying at that level for 3-5 days is also a good idea.

As far as the saliva ????
I know i sneezed like crazy(watery eyes and nose) for about a week, and read here that its a common withdrawal effect, so i suspect yours is too.

Since you asked, i'd probably save the benzo(loraz.) when you get down to the end of the taper or near the end.


Jodie, you sound like you've got the right attitude to give this a shot, so keep on fighting.

percs

...no, i'm certainly not in the medical profession!! Just been around too many pills.
Huge Congrats to your hubby on landing the job!!!!!!!!!(just don't go out and celebrate by taking 24 T-3's today.

[truehead]

Hello.  I am new to this whole forum thing, but I have been reading it for the last year or so.  Trying to summon up the courage to actually write something.

Well, here goes.  I am quite addicted to percocets.  I eat anywhere from 5-20 a day, depending on my mood.  I had some mild back pain a few years ago and I knew somewhere to get some percs.  I ate one or two and it took away the pain.  In addition, it made me feel really really good.  Since then I have kept a steady schedule of perc abuse and have centered my life around eating, obtaining, and preserving pills.  Although the latter never seems to work.  

I quit a while ago and it was hell.  I made it all the way through the withdrawal (physical at least) and was proud of myself, along with everyone else that knew about my problem.  Then one day I decide to eat some more.  I don't necessarily think it was my weakness, but more of an environmental trigger.  I hate myself.  I really do.  I am not suicidal, but I hate the way I treat those around me.  The lying, the stealing, the guilt.  I was raised to be such a good person and I truly am, but now that I am under the control of these pills, I am losing my grip on myself.  I wish with all that I am that I would have followed through the last time.  

I have a loving girlfriend that stuck with me through my bad times, loving parents that did the same.  I feel like I am letting them down, but most importantly (not to sound selfish) I am letting myself down.  I currently eat about 5-10 a day.  A lot of the time for the high, and not necessarily for the pain relief.  Although, pain I never knew I had comes out when I don't have some for a few days.

Can anyone suggest how I can taper.  I am a relatively strong person so discomfort won't kill me, but I need sleep.  Last time I did not sleep for 5-6 days and I was going nuts.  I didn't use benzos, methadone, anything.  Just cold turkey.  I need to quit.  I have a promising life, I just want to get on with it.

Thanks for listening.  I truly appreciate it!

One love
true

[no!more!]

hey no problem with the celebration thing when things are going well that is the best time for me i only took 15 yesterday and to tell you the truth when my hubby is gone it is easier in a way (he is gone to camp now for at least 2 weeks) the only down part is i have no help with the kids but they are really good anyway and if i get really sick tomorrow i will tell grandma i have the flu and need some help you wanna know something my son was born with holes in his heart and had open heart surgery at 3 months old and i swear i never left him (with a babysitter or family) until he was 1 and a half and even then it was for a hour i have only been away from my kids 5 times but now i am trying to let go a bit but i sometimes wonder if that was one of the reasons for my problem with the pills- wanting the escape or time to myself part anyway i wanted to ask something if it makes you uncomfortable its ok but what is your first name i dont know if you told me before and i forgot or not my son just asked me who i was writting to and i told him a good friend in calgary and then he asked what your name is and i said im not sure so thats why i asked anyway i also wanted to tell you i really hate the pills and want to quit on my own but i have to tell you finding a new friend here makes me want to even more just the appreciation of ecouragement  and friendship anyway i will go now and wait till next time your friend Jodie

[percsnomas]

Well i'm glad you finally posted true!!!

What are you trying to do, make me flashback or what???
You sound a lot like me(life kind of cruising along as it should, loving girlfriend and parents, etc etc; some back pain, a few pain pills), and now feel like the percs got a lifelong hold on your olah olah's(balls). If only those damn narcs didn't make a person feel so warm and fuzzy, and just handle the pain.  I also have had my share of back pain, and two surgeries(L-5/S-1), and a fairly long love affair with percocet.


My first advice to you sir, would be to loose the guilt, and try to not think that you are letting people around you down!!!
YOU ARE NOT; IT'S JUST THE NATURE OF THE OPIATE BEAST!!!

We'll just make your recovery this time a lasting one.
As you are down around 5-10/day(almost what mine was at the End of my taper....)it shouldn't be too difficult.  For this amount, depending on how many you have etc, i'd plan on a schedule covering approx. 3-4 weeks.
8/day : ~3 days
6/day : 3 or 4 days      
5/day : 3 or 4 days
4/day : 3 or 4 days

....all the way down to zero.  When you get to 1/day, you break it in half(1/2 in am and 1/2 in pm).
I don't have to tell you that you could drag this out forever, but i wouldn't want you to risk lessening your desire to get off them.

I've copied the Thomas Recipe(even though it is designed for cold turkey detox), which many of us have incorporated into our recovery, and should be most beneficial to you:

Thomas Detox Recipe

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.


I don't think you are too far away from getting on with your promising life!!!!

percsnomore

[percsnomas]

I'm sure many many of us relate to taking the pills to diminish/rid of some of lifes' "tough" spots.  It's greg, but i try and avoid it on here too much, as i've steered some other people in my industry here. No biggy though.
Also after today, i won't be posting thru the day anymore, only at night and weekends(as oxic)....just fyi.

[truehead]

To percsnomore:

Thank you!  I feel that words alone will never fully explain how grateful I am for your post.  I needed a tapering schedule, someone that has been there done that, and most of all a friend to listen, but I never knew where to find it.  Your sincerity and your knowledge will make this journey (for lack of a better word) much easier to cope with.  In fact, I would like to thank everyone that posts on these pages.  Hearing that I am not the only one is worth so much to me.  Talking about problems is the best medicine I have found.  I will keep you posted on my progress.  

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

one love,
true

[NEW ORLEANS LADY]

If you are looking for support to get off of those demon pills this is the place to be! I never understood why I couldn't "control" it. I was taking between 12-14 hydrocodone 10/325 pills per day. Most of the people here know about everything you are feeling--the shame--guilt--Paranoia-My whole day was consumed by how many pills do I have? How am I going to get more? What if I run out on the weekend and don't have access to a pharmacy--what if the multiple pharmacies I used discovered my little game?  I was also an expert at hiding my addiction-No one knew--Not even my husband!  I was in the middle of a nightmare and didn't know how to get out!  I felt SO ALONE!--But the good news it that their is a way out!  If you want it  BAD ENOUGH!  I came very close to losing my wonderful husband and an idyllic life because of those @#$ing pills calling my name 24/7. This forum was my lifeline when I thought I was losing my mind--Keep posting--YOU CAN DO IT! I have finished day 8 out of hydro hell and I never could have done it without the wonderful people here! Good luck--Peace and Prayers--N.O. Lady/ AKA Mystere (My home computer nickname)

[percsnomas]

What a difference a week makes N.O.Lady!!!

You are making it!!!!!!

In an interview(that  several of us refer to all the time)with Dr. Steve Hyman(addiction doc) and Bill Moyers, from a PBS series....i think; some interesting observations were made:

MOYERS: If addiction is about learning, why doesn't the addict learn that withdrawal in certain cases is so painful, so abominable, so awful that the brain says, "I don't want to go through that again, so I won't use"

HYMAN : One of the really striking things about human beings is that we have a lot of trouble thinking about long-term risk. We are very short-term creatures indeed.
Also, you see, withdrawal is very painful, but it's not actually associated with the drug.  What's associated with the drug is pleasure and relief.  The withdrawal syndrome is occurring in isolation and without the drug.  Indeed, it is accompanied by intense craving for the drug. So the withdrawal does not not in any way extinguish or do away with the impulse, the craving, the desire for drugs. Indeed(he likes this word), one of the important challenges to us as a species is how we can figure out ways of dealing with our inability to conform our behaviour to our long-term best interest.


Just thought you'd find this interesting, as there has been alot of discussion lately about relapse/setbacks, etc.

Regardless, continued strength to you mystere!!!!!!!!!!! I'm pulling for you.

[NEW ORLEANS LADY]

Wow what an insightful interview!--Yhanks for the interesting post!  I'm still reading Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpey and I feel more "empowered" than ever.  Although I do like many of the principls of AA/NA--I have alot of problems with that powerlessness thing. Anyway getting ready to leave work and thanks so much to you and Peaz--I couldn't have made it this far without you!!! all my love--peace & prayers N.O. Lady AKA Mystere

Anne

[rick47]

i have been using lorcet for a year only on the last two months up to 8 10/650 a day how bad will it be to quit i have fever an chills and pain in my legs plus the running nose in the morning i have rather to have the back pain than this i get 90 an then up buying 40 more

[rodewc]

A guess is: bite the bullet for a week and then it's mind over matter.. easier said than done, huh?

rwc~