Member Comments are provided by individuals and reflect their personal opinions only. Under NO circumstances should you act on any advice or opinion posted in this forum. ALWAYS check with your personal physician before taking any action regarding your health! MedHelp International and our partners, sponsors and affiliates have no obligation to monitor any comments posted on this site, or the content and/or accuracy of such exchanges. MedHelp International does not endorse the views of any user.
therapy 4 the mind
by pasttime, Mar 20, 2003 12:00AM
I have my dr's appointment today and I really want to speak to him about therapy. I was in there last week and he told me that he knew I was going to other dr's for meds and he was pretty mad at me. He hasn't given me anything other than ultram in about 6 months but he also thought I was through with the loracet that he had been perscribing the 8 months prior. When he found out about me going to other dr's he said he couldn't trust me and he only gave me a few of the ultram and said I had to come back every week and check in with him to get more and so he knows I am not shopping any more. How do dr's find out about this kind of stuff? I am really trying to staighten up and I haven't used in 6 days but I am always able to do this I just can't keep myself off of them. I thought this would be a good reason to see a therapist. Any advice on this from anyone. I really want to kick this thing.
Related discussions
-
another day (116 replies):mornin fellow junkies. todays another day. some of us ar...[more]
-
Addiction to pain meds (75 replies):a little history, i got assaulted in mexico by about 4 g...[more]
-
It shouldn't be this hard..should it? (117 replies):I read all of these post everyday, every moment, and it ...[more]
-
A Disease?? (41 replies):If drug addiction is a disease, say like diabetes or can...[more]
-
How to withdraw from long-term hydrocodone use (138 replies):I've been taking hydrocodone for the past five years, an...[more]
-
Catalytic anti-bodies? (78 replies):Has anyone heard of a antibody being developed that cons...[more]
-
Oxycotin Detox (110 replies):This board was suggested to me by a friend and I am so g...[more]
-
Withdrawal Periods (77 replies):Hey everyone - just a quick question - I have been taki...[more]
-
Withdrawal and Depression (169 replies):I finally got to post!! I have been experiencing severe ...[more]
Post Comment
Related Communities
Recent Videos
Related Expert Forums
Recent Activity
Most Popular Trackers
RSS
Expert Activity
Community Members
Most Viewed Health Pages
They have everything on a master computer and they send it to the doctors. It's like Nazi Germany .... or big brother. Keep pluggin away .... you'll do just fine. Goldie
New Orleans Lady AKA mystere
You changed your name??? I like it--que significa? If you've made it to day 5, please, PLEASE don't get those damn refills-- burn them----so you can quit tormenting your mind w/ the hopes and (false) dreams of narcotics......Cut all ties from your pharmacist, and get busy on something--ANYTHING that will allow you to focus on LIFE. You are doing so WELL!! Keep posting--ask away--whine--swear--LOL I don't care---Love--Peazy
what you are going through is normal. you might want to strt keeping a journal, and write each day about what you are going through, it helps to get it out.
also you could sak youself some questioms ,like
why do you use, why do you want to use.
what do you expect to get out of a life clean from pills.
writ about self deception, and how taking pills is so self centered and how it effects your life and the people in your life when you use them. to name a few topics for a daily journal/
at the end of a month of keeping a journal ,go back and read it
,you will be suprised to learn so much about yourself.
peace!hippy
freezzing, i take syntrroid for my thyroid and had to go through a battrey of test before they gave me this medacation.
i also have taken nurotin for detox , i never mixed them tho.
you might want to ask your doctor about it.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hippy
Thank God the cravings aren't bad today--Its actually a beautiful morning here in the Crescent City and it is rather spectacular to see it through a clear set of eyes. Thanks to everyone for just being here--just knowing I'm not alone with this struggle helps tremendously! Peace and Prayers
Sysyphus--I hope you are well! Please check in and let us know how you are! You are a very talented writer.
Drug addiction like many disorders have organic and inorganic properties. The organic aspects of drug adiction (addiction) for most of us is the physical dependence and psychological components.
Fortunate for us the physical dependence aspect of opiate addiction is very self-limited, non-life threatening, and of relative short duration. With the exception of methadone, most short-acting and long acting opiates fail to have any physiological symptoms after 5-7 days. As we all know to well, once you stop opiate administration symptoms of physical dependence come on like gang busters.
The study of science has proven one thing about scientific investigation...once conclusions are reached, and once those conclusions are "sold" to the scientific community, it's damn near impossible to change those conclusions.
Much money, research and profesional careers have staked their claim to a single fact..."That addiction is a disease".
Only of late has this statement been attacked and refutted.
We can take a look at some other very common diseases and attempt to apply a disease - to - disease comparision.
It's not like comparing apples to oranges, but more along the line of comparing cause and effect.
Once a drug addicted individual stops ingesting opiates, a bag full of nasty things take place. Opiate w/d is basically a 180 degree turn of effects versus the opiate "high.
We all know them...constipation becomes diarheaa, increased energy levels become lethargy, etc.. But these symptoms rarely last a long period of time and your body returns to a normal state of physiological function.
The same cannot hold true for someone with Type I diabetes. Diabetes is a true disease of the pancreas. The pancreas fails to produce enough insulin, so insulin must come from an outside source...without it a whole list of nasty and usually fatal outcomes present themselves. The same holds true for the disease of hypertension...untreated hypertension leads to stroke, heart failure and severe peripheral dysfunction.
This is simply not the case when looking at the "disease" of drug addiction. Simply put...if you don't take your hydro's, vikes, or OC's you are not going to die, and your "disease" does not get worse, in fact give it a few days and you start to get better. So why is it so hard to stop and remained stopped when a decision has been made by a person to live drug free. Well we know it's not a physical disease, but a psychological disorder. I know as most of you do that stopping is actually very easy, staying stopped is the tough part.
Assuming all things being the same between me and you and the next guy (no significant underlying neurological or mental health disease) why can person X stay clean, while person Y cannot? If drug addiction was truly a disease...then in order to stay clean everyone who suffers from it would require the same accepted standard of care or treatment plan. Hey a diabetic, regardless of his willpower isn't going to just get better because he willed himslf to do so. No, all diabetics in order to control and treat their disease require the same accepted standard of care. The same holds true for nearly all diseases. But, many people have successfully treated their addiction without any medical or psychological treatment.
So the question begs asking again...is my addiction to opiates a disease? It is so much easier for the medical community to view addiction as a disease. Once labeled a disease then standard disease treatment protocols can be applied...severity, diagnosis related grouping, medical interventions and critical pathways, stages of progression, prognosis, remission, etc. ****, once this happens then coding or billing can be applied.
There is much agreement about the chemical imprinting that opiate addiction causes. These facts are not disputed. Long and substained use of opiates do affect the chemical neurorology of your brain. Much of this chemical imprinting is permanent. That is why many people who were addicted years ago, can re-addict in a very short period of time. Once the brain learns something it cannot be de-learned. What once took 4-6 weeks of substained use, will in reality only take a few days or a week. This is brain behavior and not underlying brain or neurological disease.
Mystere in your last post you asked..."Why, why, why can't I control it"..."Am I insane". Well I don't know the answer to your second question :<), just kidding. Although I have had little contact with NA or AA, I will say this...Do not believe for ONE MOMENT that you are powerless in this fight. I take exception to that statement, which seems to be the foundation of NA and AA. And if my addiction is a disease, then the last place I need to be is in a meeting, because diseases need to be treated by trained medical personnel. I know that these organizations have helped millions of people in their fight against addiction, but our addiction, for most of us, was a choice. Our decision to live drug free is a choice. There is power in choice. In true diseases you do not have a choice to simply say, I'm healed and that's that.
There many avenues to sobiety, some require treatment, just like many diseases require treatment. Sobiety is a progressive path. Once the physical w/d's are over, you are drug free. If viewing this from a disease standpoint you are healed. Now you must start to practice preventive medicine, to prevent this "disease" from re-appearing. You do not stay in one stage of your recovery for very long. The physical w/d's are 5-7 days, the next 30-90
days is a period of uncertainity...decreased energy levels, depression, angry at oneself for allowing this, intense urges and cravings. By far the cravings and urges are the toughest. But, they won't kill you or even injury you. And when you re-direct yourself and call these urges every dirty name in the book, they run away. They'll come back, but as each day passes they visit you less often and they get weaker over time.
My God I have written a small novel, and I have taken up way too much of this forum, but I will leave you with one last thought. I have NEVER liked the word addict. Even though I'm 40+ days clean, I'm not an addict. Even when I was 1 day clean I wasn't an addict. Don't subscribe to this label. Do you go to parties and people introduce themselves as...Hi I'm diabetic, Hi I'm depressed, Hi I'm cancer, Hi I'm congestive heart failure... You get the point. NEVER let your struggle define you!
I was once an infant, for now I'm a child, and that child GREW and left behind childhood, for now I'm a teenager, and that teenager GREW and left behind those teenager years, and now I'm an adult. I was once a drug addict, but I GREW and left the drug addict behind.
Peace to all of you.
Kilo
Hippee, it was one doctor that prescribed the levoxyl and the neurontin at the same time (not addiction doc though). He did not comment on any effect resulting from combination of the two.
Neither do I think addiction is a disease. Like you say, when it was decided to call it that (by whom?) it gave way to putting a cute label and more importantly, A SCAPEGOAT Catagory that was so very necessary. If people couldn't blame their misbehavior and sins on something other than themselves, how would one ever forgive oneself for all the havoc that we wreaked throughout our duration? And, if we had to "own" all that guilt, how could anyone stay sober??? It would be impossible in that frame of mind. So---let's call it a disease,, place the blame on that, and voila!!! it provides a multitude of excuses. I have always thought the analogy of addiction to diabetes, cancer, or what have you was absoultely laughable!! Let's see, now---you mean to tell me you're seriously comparing insulin to a mood-altering substance???? You must be joking!!!! One save a life, the other destroys..How did this stupid comparison EVER come about???!!!!
I am mandated to attend AA mtgs. and when it comes to my turn to speak, I WILL NOT say, " Hi, I'm Diane and I'm an addict/alkie" I'll just start talking. And invariably, someone will start "aheming" me....to prompt me, which I will smugly ignore.....WHY do I have to identify myself w/ a label, which, like you say. is one I left behind??? Must I wear that hair shirt FOREVER???? The funniest (sickening, really) thing is, that at meetings, when someone talks, then another one says their thing, and the first speaker wants to comment on what was said, they all say" I'm Joe, and I'm STILL an alkie." when they've just spoken 2 minutes previous. Jesus!! How ridiculous can you be??? Do you HEAR yourself???
I'm going on , I know...I'll close. I think you and I have the same beliefs, Kilo--I just didn't express mine very well in my post to Mystere. You added some very worthwhile points, and it was nice to know that I'm not alone in my beliefs. My best to all----Peaz
P.S. My daughter has seen Circque de Soilel(did I butcher that spelling??) in Vegas and loved them, too!! Have you seen Blue Man Group???
I found it incredible that people could actually taper in their detox. For me it was simple...have drugs, do drugs.
I guess it all goes back to the "choice" issue. Don't get me wrong...opiate addiction is 99.9% a pure psychological battle.
But what is unique is that many can beat this addiction with little or no medical/mental health intervention, while others require intensive treatment with synthetic forms of opiates and opiate blocking medications.
I've read several stories on this forum how somebody c/t from a 400mg to 800mg a day OC habit, while others struggle with a small 15mg - 20mg hydrocodone habit.
While I refuse to accept the "disease" concept, there is no doubt that there is several underlying factors that determine if one is to be successful longterm. I do not subscribe that physically dependent opiate users are "weak willed". But, there is no doubt that determination and self responsibility play a major role in your ability to become and stay sober. Just look in your local phone book or do an Internet search on drug addiction, it's a multi-billion dollar industry out to treat "Your disease"
Finding out how others are successful and also researching why others are unsuccessful, would be money well spent.
Just my 2 cents.
Peace
Kilo
Later Bro,
Jimb
First ... The 12 step program is only one way to address a drug, drinking, gambling, or food obsession. As you said, after getting straight the real challenge is staying straight.
The first step .. "Admitted we were powerless over substances and our lives had become unmanagable". ... anyone that takes an honest look at his life during the ravages of drug abuse can see just how unmanagable it is. The 12step program is about honesty and breaking the isolation. Addiction is a "progressive" disease. That means that it can be arrested, but it will always be there and it will continue to progress even though we are not actively using. Another reality check for those of us who refuse to remember where we came from. Sorry to say .... but if I don't refresh my memory on a regular basis, I will start to lie to myself and minimize everything .... I will invent history and pretty soon I will believe that it wasn't all that bad and I can handle it. I'm not like those "other" people. I quit before, I can do it again.... . I know there is another "high" out there, but I don't know if there is another recovery. Life is too short. NA is an anonymous fellowship and the custom of introducing yourself as an addict helps to keep us humble and teachable. Being an addict is only "part" of who we are .. we are so much more. Unfortunately, until we recover from this affliction, it is likely to dominate our lives. I love the program for alot of reasons ... but mainly because it works. Goldie
Its funny Kilo; when i was on percocet for so many years, i felt i had virtually no will power....you know the usual, "taper off the next script" bullshit. Then when i decided i had enough August 6th.....I tapered(from a very large amount) for the first time , down to zero by Aug. 19th; and actually flushed 120 percs(with some dilaudid in for good measure) a couple weeks later.
Thanks Again
Choice is empowerment. You and I weren't powerless when it came to taking drugs, why should we be powerless when it comes to stopping and staying stopped.
As for honesty...you can't lie to yourself. I proved to my family, my friends, my physicians, and my pastor how empowered I was. I told them everything!
Prove to my scientific mind how a "disease" like addiction continues to progress after a person stops using. The definition of progression states "moving forward or onward, advancing". You mean to tell me that my drug addiction is "advancing" even after I have stopped using for 5, 10 or 20 years.
I need not worry or forget "where I came from". The destruction, pain and re-building of my life after drugs will always be there.
As for being humble and teachable. I don't need a room full of people to remind of that. Everytime I open the Bible or pray to God is the only reminder I need on the subject of humility.
Being an "addict" is a part of WHAT I was. I once had cancer at an early age and that too was a part of WHAT I was.
What strikes me as confusing is your statement "Unfortunately, until we recover from this affliction". But I thought (by NA standards) that addiction will always be there and continue to progress. If that be the case, how can recovery ever take place?
Don't get me wrong...If the "program" works for you then I salute your sobiety, your hardwork and your determination. But a blanket statement that NA is a program to love because it works doesn't apply to all of us. It works for some of us. Re-affirmation after re-affirmation of a destructive behavior is not my idea of recovery. Self responsibility of one's choices and behaviors, and that includes the work and strength to stay clean empowers individuals and doesn't label one as powerless.
But, as my father once said..."Opinions are like assholes, we all have one and they all stink".
Peace
Kilo
Years ago, I tried AA, 'tho alcohol was not my problem. I, in addition to all Peaz eloquently stated, and you as well, Kilo.. might also add that those peeps in AA seemed cliquish, cultish and additionally an ooooooh so verrrry needy, clawing clinging group.
(complete w/ robotic rituals)
In desperation, I soon investigated RR (Rational Recovery) which is what you two are seemingly touting. It has elements of Smart Recovery, maybe even a twin. Regardless (note irregardless is non-standard English. I am a Grammar Nazi at heart, a kind one), I am glad to read intelligent pieces exposing the sham of AA. ~
I have enjoyed what you have shared here, I really don't want to see that loss.
You haven't blown your life. That's bullshit. What about tomorrow...that's not blown. Everyday is a fresh start. We all hope that tomorrow makes us stronger or a little better in our struggles.
Jim, today I'm drug free...tomorrow I may not be. I don't have any illusions. But, this I do know I can't change yesterday, I can only live in today and tomorrow is unpredictable.
Last time I looked, life didn't come with an owner's manual. So we learn as we go.
Hang tough and please don't be a stranger. Peace to you Jim
Kilo
I had a great aunt who was an English Doctor. I would write her birthday wishes when I was a child. She would send back my letter with corrections in "red ink".
Needless to say I never wrote her back.
Hope all is well with you. Don't know about your neck of the woods but the Gulf Coast is having great weather. Enjoy your weekend.
Peace
Kilo
I believe we are powerless over drugs, but not powerless in general. It is thinking that we are in control of our drug use that is the problem. When I try to use ... I lose my power and become a slave. Your family, your friends, your doctors and your pastor are not fellow drug addicts. You can't make the same connection and get the same support from someone that has not been there. It's kind of the same thing as coming here .... our people are here. Anyway that's how I see it ...
As far as "science" is concerned, it is their belief that the addiction progresses much the same as the aging process and no matter how long you are clean ... if you pick up again, it will be as though you have never stopped. That's usually what happens. As I said, the program is only one way to skin a cat and it has helped me. The question in my mind is "What is addiction? Is it a mental illness, an obsession, or a disease ??? If you find out, please let me know. Sorry if I came on too strong about all this .... I haven't gone to any meetings in a while, but I read the books and live by the slogans ... take care, Goldie
I was almost.. well, shall we say, I was on the cusp of being classified as an 'elderly' individual before I discovered such (irregardless) was not a word...?!.. Even then, I was so aDAMNant in my insistence:))) that IRREGARDLESS was a word!! Further, when I looked up 'irregardless' in a dickSHUNanary, I didn't bother to focus on its definition.
That aside, Kilo, yr. writing, like Thomas's, Dancing's, Sisyphus's and others'.. is soooooooooo outstanding (I kid you not) that I took a stab w/ my irregardless comment. I had hoped u mite wanna know such.
The reason/msgs underlying your posts, Kilo, ooze incredible wisdom and common sense. Tho I am not even in the same ballbark w/ such good advice/writing, I have recently (yesterday!) found one vvvv simple (hopeful) cure to assist me in the road to recovery; and that is a Get a Pet.
Our nuclear famBly has owned indoor cats for years (we still do), 5 cats at this time- all inside felines, all 20+ pounds.
Yesterday, tho my many "real" kids, all (thankfully) grown kids, chided me into paying a mere $20. for a seemingly (dog) Lab mix here in the beautiful sunny sLowCountry, all while slobbing ribs at a fest yesterday.
That puppy, now mine, along w/ his puppy needs and puppy smell and puppy grunts and puppy smiles has taken my mind away from those thoughts of remaining sober. She has easily Kept me sober, another day.
This new puppy has helped me channel my boundless energy, formerly used to obsess about pills, to one of true spirituality.. the joy of limitless, unconditional love- all while reading the Good Book to an innocent, loving puppy.
I am so enthralled with my new found responsibility. I wonder why I didn't take a helpless creature of God, and shower her w/ good loving and energy years ago when The Evil Drug Battle began.
A pet is a small price to pay for the joy that abounds. This feat of Pure Jpy and Love is being accomplished INside my home of kids, spouse, and 5 HUGE cats. Property in a resort precludes a large yard, a fences, and any othet anenity.
I am not damning AA/NA; but, I am unequivically saying that a large # of people allow for no other form of recovery. Tunnel Vision.
Additionally, I would like to add, tho EVERY poster/writer on this forum has his/her own way of expressing himself. I would Never correct grammar, or like, unless asked. Kilo, apologies yet again, I I became the 'aunt' you mentioned.
I have enjoyed EVERY, sincere message written here by All: Thank you.
I again express sorrow if anything was a detriment/cut to you, Kilo; and, my sincerest apologies if it was. I have rambled a lot-too much as one can see- but I had never imagined how a puppy could assist in what has seemed to be a difficult battle.
No edit/proofread here, but, anyone, pls. feel free to edit pr comment. I would love to be a better writer, and express my thoughts coherently.. instead of doing so like the AD/HD person I have emerged.
Best to all of you on this beautiful Sabbath Day. ~~Rode WC~
The prefix "ir" means "not", so if you were to write irregard, it is not even a word.
But--to write IRREGARDLESS means you are using double negatives, before AND after the word, which, of course is redundant. Hence, regardless is the way to go. Just my 2 cents.. ;-) peazy
I told him I had to think about it.
Regards to ALL,
Dan
"Ya see, Doc, things just go better with Dope .. it's about the New Frontier, Better Living through Chemistry, a Brave New World, Doors of Perception, Tim Leary, Woodstock and girls with unshaven armits, no underwear ever and flowers in their hair. Ya get me, Doc? Can I go now? Doc ...?"
LOL
Thomas
Thomas
Rodewc - no offense taken. In fact it took me about 20 minutes to read through your post, I had to pick myself off the floor a few times, my sides hurt so much do to laughing.
Well, on a different note...just got my MRI back from my shoulder (you know the one they have already "fixed" twice before). First words out of the ortho's piehole was "That thing looks like ****, you need surgery". Of course when I asked if this was possible without pain meds, he laughed for 2 minutes straight. So decisions, decisions...Live with the pain, which really sucks and just getting worse or take my chances after 45+ days of being clean. The ortho doc did mention a pain pump which drips marcane into the wound for the first 4 days and should really put a damper on the pain. But, he said after the pain pump runs dry you are going to need some pain medications.
Any advice would be appreciated. Well take care my fellow long distance friends, and irregardless, oops, **** I did it again
Regardless I would love to hear back from you.
Peace
Kilo
Rode WC~
Most or all of us will have to use pain meds again. Some of us hope it's sooner than later LOL, but the majority will take it as it comes. For you, it's come. So take the gnarly Schedule II mega-narcs with the death sentence in some third world countries and rejoice!
Thomas
I'm so sorry to hear about your shoulder. Can we hope that the 3rd time will be a charm? What a pain in the well...shoulder. And at 45 days clean no less. I tell you, it's the devil in disguise as a bad MRI! Your doc is conspiring with evil forces that force'us to get high, man.
'Scuse me for a moment:
THOMAS! You are projecting onto Kilo your salivating desire for pharmaceuticals & for this transgression you shall receive a suitable spanking. Are we still on for next weekend ?
Back to the task at hand.
Yikes, Kilo, you are right there in the eye of the storm, the very quintessence of a true dilemma. What will he take? How many? It's the marrow of a fine piece of fiction were it not so unfortunate.
Admittedly, Thomas has his moments of clarity & I don't think you should suffer BUT...
Since you've already been down this road before, presumably from the 2 previous surgeries, take a good look at that big boulder you'll soon be pushing up a mountain as hig as we all strive to be. After you've had a good look, arrange with your doc & pharmacy to pick up your meds on a daily basis. If your doc prescribes 6 max a day, make it 5 & NO MORE. My doc puts plenty of his patients on daily p/ups. Ironically, I'm probably his patient most in need of such restrictions & while he's suggested it a few times, the poor man utterly caves before a flirt in a skirt. Yes, I make me sick too.
Another option is to have your wife dole them out to you. I assume she heard you mutter, "In drugness and in health?" ;-) However, this can be problematic. Reports indicate some designated spouses have been found hung by the toenails & suffocated by empty prescription bottles. A lot of addicts say when the cat's away...and hunt o'er hill & dale & under it & around it until they bulldoze the damn house down. Not to mention having to ask - beg - for your meds. It would also put pressure on her as she won't want to see you in pain but she won't want to give you too many...only you two know how that would play out.
Kilo, I know you can do this without winding up back at square one. I say go for the meds but maybe put some controls in place so you don't have to again endure that which you've already conquered.
Best wishes,
Dancing in the Dark
Where shall I send my invoice?
But really thanks for being upfront...you're right sooner or later we are going to need some narcotics when life throws you a fastball and you forget to duck.
Hey you Dancing Canuck - Since I'm in such a "poopy" mood, I have a question for you...What the hell is wrong with our northern neighbors. I just spent 20 years with the Dept. of Defense...you know how it goes...travel to new strange countries, meet new strange people, then give them a high speed dose of .223 or 7.62 caliber humanitarian aid. Since my last 20 years has been in healthcare, I found myself patching up a sucking chest wound one moment, and defending myself with an M-16 the next. I worked quite a few missions with Canadian troops, not a bad lot, just wished they tagged along on this trip to Baghdad. OH well...just to lighten the subject, I did spend 2 years in the Yukon working with Canadian Special Forces, and you Canucks must come out of the womb wearing skates. I thought I played a pretty descent game of hockey, till I met those chaps.
So now you know how my shoulder is a piece a ****. When those Canucks check you into the boards it hurts. Keep in touch and thanks for the advice about controlling the pain meds when the time comes. Peace
Kilo
Does everyone feel better now?
Personally, the day after I stopped, I completely forgot about the physical part of withdrawal. I just thought all the shakes, puking and runs were nothing more than a figament of my imagination.