I started the Thomas recipe yesterday. Today will be day 1 of NO pain pills. I feel okay with the muscle aches & am feeling pretty peppy as of right this moment but my kidneys are killing me. Does anyone know if taking this much of vitamins/minerals/etc. can make the kidneys suffer? Or is it just another extremely painful withdrawal symptom? This really hurts & I know it's the kidneys but I WILL NOT go to the dr...don't have the willpower not to ask for pain meds yet.
i've never had any kidney trouble from taking vitames or amino acids. what you are probably feeling is muscle spasm in the low to mid back. this is one of the first symptoms of "jones" coming to visit. either baclofen (a neuro muscle relaxer) or a benzo such as valium, or both preferably. to be on the safe side, monitor your body temp for mid to high grade fever. w/d causes a slightly elavated body temp in some people, so if your temp is only slightly up, just keep an eye on it and do'nt worry. when jones comes to visit, he isn't going to bring along anthing to "feel good about!" that will be up to you! best of luck and god's speed....
keep an angel on your shoulder
L-tyrosine will help with depression,
it will also give you energy and help get you natraul endorphines back on like so you can start feeling normal.
when you take during week 1 of withdrawls which is very difficult and painfull the l -tyrosine sorta buffers out the pain so it is tolerable.
for anyone who has tried to go cold turkey with out the receipe,
they know how hard it is, and then when you go cold turkey with the receipe you can notice the vast difference.
the receipe for me made it possible to go cold tukey, where as
in the past without it , i had no sucess.
when taking the l-tyrosine you may want to ajust it , and take less.
i still take it , it helps with energy and pain.
I've been taking the L-Tyrosine for the last two mornings with a B-Complex pill that contains Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate), and the difference is amazing. I haven't taken any Hydro for 1 week now, but I have taken 3 .02 sublingual buprenorphine pills per day, scaled down to 1 per day now, so I think it's time I stop them.
Thomas's recipe is exactly what my I needed to feel more human and energetic. There is some information about L-Tyrosine @ http://www.thewayup.com/products/0094.htm - that's where I purchase my amino acids/vitamins/minerals.
Also, I have recently read a very inspirational story about a man who had to deal with H withdrawal - it's helped me immensely, as has this forum. http://www.acay.com.au/~narcosis/skinofteeth.htm
Also, I plan on getting some Sinemet. Mirapex is also another medicine for RLS (I have only heard of this, so this may not be as helpful as Sinemet).
If you're doing a cold turkey detox off opiates such as Vicodin, wait until the more gross symptoms -- sweats, cramps, nausea, runs -- have stopped before using the L-Tyrosine. The thinking is this: In addition to dopamine, L-Tyrosine is metabolized into norepinephrin -- brain adrenalin. This works against your efforts to sedate yourself to ride out the initial withdrawal symptoms.
After acute withdrawal has abated, you're going to feel like a rancid mop -- total lack of physical, mental and emotional energy -- because of your dopamine, norepinephrin and endorphin (natural morphine) deficits. It's at this time that the L-Tyrosine with B6 will help you bring your own ass back to life.
Take a sufficient dose, and you'll feel the difference in less than 1 hour. And I mean really feel it -- not a placebo effect "feel-better" but an undeniable kick in the ass. If you're coming off a tall habit and feel absolutely brain dead, 3000 to 4000 mgs will lift the fog in 30 to 40 minutes. It's quite dramatic the first time you experience it. It's not like a caffeine wire, but more of a sudden clearing of the mind and a flood of confidence and optimism -- and physical energy.
It's this physical energy from L-Tyrosine that you need to put to work to get out of the house and into some kind of light aerobic activity, such as fast walking, bicycling, lap swim (or stair master and cross-country ski machine) -- whatever you can man
Miko: get some 5-HTP at the health food store. Take two at a time for sedation and sleep. It's safe and effective. It's not as effective as a benzo, of course, but it will help more than other OTC solutions.
I don't know what kind of kidney pain your talking about but if it's a thing where it hurts when you tinkle, or feel like you still have to, get some peridium. It's stuff to take for symptoms of a urinary track infection,or a kidney infection. It will numb your kidney and bladder. You get them at the pharmacy over the counter. It REALLY REALLY HELPS! Trust me! I don't know if I spelled it right but you pronounce it (per-id-y-um). It turns your pee orange, but your kidneys will feel a WHOLE LOT BETTER! hope this helped. KIMH
Horay for L-Tyrosine! I love the stuff! Not only does it give you energy and help your withdrawel, it helps you loose weight. I got worried that I was gonna gain weight because of my choclate & sugar cravings during wd's. I don't want to have to worry about that after. Question, you can take L-Tyrosine throughout the day right? But you can't keep taking the vitamin B6 more than once right? Oh, It helps with the sex drive too! Yum!KIMH
my experience with L-Tyrosine says only one big dose in the morning. Subsequent doses seem to cause significant headaches, jitters and insomnia. B6 should accompany each dose to promote absorption. I suppose one might take a split dose and see what happens, but be prepared for those side effects.
When I use it, I feel it all day anyway.
Hi Kip! Good to hear from you, too. I filed your e-mail addy and I'll write you in the next day or so.
Thanks for the help everybody. I'm feeling okay. It's probably just w/d's but I've got a bad headache (like Thomas said of the tyrosene.) I did take 1500mg ltyrosene this morning, along with a b complex. I'll be purchasing a regular b-6 today. Took 1500mg more ltyrosene 30 minutes ago before reading all the posts. I'm trying to make it to the computer at least 3xs a day now. I'm a new mom & it's quite hard to do sometimes. I will say that if I didn't have an 8 month old, I'd be inpatient somewhere--sleeping! I don't even know what sleep is anymore. My daughter still wakes every 2 hours at night & GOD...WHY DID I WAIT SO LONG TO COME OFF THIS ****?! I'm gonna try the 5hp (?) & hope for the best at night. You are all so much help & I love you all for the caring you show to everyone who comes to these boards. I think I'll be here for awhile!
The 5-HTP is good stuff. It will definately relax you and help you sleep. It's not one of those supplements that don't seem to do a goddamn thing except drain your wallet. And you can take it any time of the day or night. Sorry bout the L-Tyrosine headache. The recipe calls for one dose per day, but I should include a conspicuous note warning about repeat doses.
5-HTP is metabolized into serotonin, some of which makes it into the brain. This gives 5-HTP sleep-inducing and anti-depressant properties. A Japanese study found that 5-HTP was as effective for depression as Zoloft. It's an amino acid related to the L-Trytophan that's activated when you warm milk. But 5-HTP is many times more potent.
You can take 100mg of 5-HTP 3 or four times a day while you detox. Standard dosing for depression is 100mgs 3 times a day. People usually start with 50mg and switch to 100mg once they're not experiencing much drowsiness. For your purposes, you need the extra sedation of 100mg doses. It may help bring you down from the L-Tyrosine tonight. Good luck.
i have to admit i was flabergasted at how well this method works! WS Buroughs (in the novel "naked lunch") speaks of addiction as a "metabolic disorder," and this is one of the first truly effective methods for a person afflicted with opiate addiction to regain control of their life. make no doubt about it, this simple method is not easy, but very "doable!"
keep an angel on your shoulder
the recipe worked well for me.
this is how i took it
L-tyrosine 500mgs 8 a day in the morning week 1. 4 a day weeks after.
b-6 100mgs 2 a day
a strong multi vitamine
vitamine A-E and C
magneese/ zinc/ copper/ phosphous
imodium for the runs
something for sleep week 1 (optional) xanax or valume taper
off it as the week progresses,
lots of water and or gatoraid in early part of the day for lost electrolites.
something for restles legs like a prescription of( cinemet)or
something in that order.
lots of hot bath at night week 1 for the restless leg and body
the more the better.
after week 1 try to start working out , exersize as much and as
hard as possible to get the natural endorphine s up and working.
post as much as possible and keep in touch with the fourm members here and anywhere else you can find support.
Well, since I seem to be the first one up on this Sunday morning, I guess I'll post it. I had it copied onto my computer and am using the vitamins from it as I taper and it is helping me immensely. This has worked wonders for many people. He also includes a disclaimer which I did not have pasted stating that he is not a doctor, just an opiate addict that after many years of experience he developed this and he also reccomends that you discuss the vitamins and use of benzos with a doctor. Everyone, I hope I stated the disclaimer correctly, please correct me if I'm wrong.
For the Recipe, You'll need:
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.
During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.
At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.
With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.
As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.
I just found this site today and I can't believe that after the 30th, I won't be able to come here. I don't know any of you, but I need you all very badly. I am addicted to Lortab and I am ready to quit. I have decided that, due to my job, I will hold off the withdrawals until Friday, June 27. I have been taking 80-100mg every day since January for a kidney stone that I finally had removed. The pain is gone, but I am scared to death of going through the withdrawals. I will post my email address. Will someone please write to me? I am really scared. I have already had a taste of the symptoms today and I thought I was going to go crazy waiting to get home to get a pill. I have printed out Thomas's recipe and will buy all of the ingredients tomorrow, but I really need some emotional support. My family is very understanding, but I am embarrassed to let them know how bad it really is for me. I would forever be grateful to have your support to! Please email me at: ***@**** Thank you!
I saw your post just before I was getting ready to go to bed late last night. I sat down to drop you a few lines, had the whole bleeping thing typed out, my computer crashed and I lost it all!!!! Arrrgh I hate it when that happens. Anyway, I was so sleepy I had to give up, but I will write you later when I have a little more time.
BTW, there are other boards like this one, there are addresses to at least 2 or 3 different ones posted in several threads here, maybe try one out, they really do help a lot of people.
Looking forward to talking to you soon,
Figured I'd get this in before it closes down. Frequent reader, first time poster. I've been on vicoprofen for over a year for back nerve compression issues. I want off now. I've finally had enough. I've been taking them for more fun than anything over the last 6 months (15 a day)and this has to stop. 2 would help the pain but 4 felt soooo good. It's bad now though. I'm taking them to exist. No more fun, warm, dreamy feeling. The last straw was dinner with my folks and I couldn't relax. I was sweating uncontrollably and couldn't eat. Obviously not myself and I had my wife and folks very worried. My wife knows I'm on them for pain but she doesn't know how out of control it has gotten.
Trying the Thomas Recipe today. I started to taper my vic's over the past two weeks. The terrible pain in my legs and back returned(2 previous back operations, bi-lateral sciatica). I found some info on detoxing with Ultram. I stopped the vic's on Monday and have been taking 6-8 ultrams a day in doses of 2 every 4 - 6 hours. This got me over the first 3 days of wd VERY easily. It controlled the inevitible pain I get in my legs and back. No leg restlessness at all. The best part is, the ultram does nothing for me "recreationally". I just feel normal. No foggy, warm, narc feeling. I just hope I can control my pain in more wholesome, natural ways. Exercise, eat right, etc...
I will taper the ultram for the next week while doing the Thomas recipe. I've failed 6 previous times with dtox on my own. Outside help is not an option. I have to do it on my own. This board, however, has been so helpful. I know I am not alone in this and I know I will beat it. Once you get a taste of what you used to feel like before the ****, you latch on to that and it gives you the drive to succeed. Shame this board has to go away. It looks like it's done so much good. Good luck to y'all and THANK YOU.
Hey! I just found this site and can't believe it is going to be gone before I get started. My sister is obviously addicted to Soma and Vicodin. If someone in this area is saving emails to pass along a new area where you all are going to be, please add me to the list. I am going to take an active role in getting my sister help. I have had a child go through rehab and is drug free for two years now. I am no stranger to what is involved here. kathy.***@**** is where I will be. I would love to know where you all land. Sounds like you have some great advice and I know we are going to need all the help we can get.
I also have just stumbled on here and really like what I see. I am sorry it will be gone soon.
I will be copying the thomas recipe and hope I am allowed to share it with others.I presently post generally at recoverybandits.com and a very frequent complaint we all have is the depression & lack of energy we all experience while trrying to detox. I have never heard of L-Tyrosine nor have a read it on any other board. I know this information will help so many.
Good luck to all that are working to get our systems back up & running.
If you don't have an EZboard account, sign up for a global account, then return the confirmation email you will get very quickly from EZboard, next use the URL above to join the forum. Put in your nickname and password, then you will be taken to your 'control center' window. From there just click on the name of the forum up in the upper left hand corner of the window and it puts you into the forum where you can find all of us. We also have live chat there where we all go to relax and get silly together. We'd love to have you come join us.
You will find the Thomas Recipe and Thomas himself on the forum. He is one of the forum Admin. He will be able to answer any and all questions you have about his recipe. :) You will normally find me running around chasing after Thomas, trying to get a lick of that special Fentanyl hair gel he uses! LOL.
hi! i am new to this. I took vicoden for two weeks (pre wisdom teeth removal and post). I am a zombie and totally depressed. ITS BIZARRE. ive been trying to drink lots of water and after reading your posts just bought L-tyrosine. Its been a week since my last pill. Any other suggestions on how to speed up the w.drawl process? THANKS!
Wow you got on a post from 2003... don't know how that happened... anyway.. L-tyrosine is mainly for the sluggish no energy stuff... 5HTP is for depression either need to be taken with B complex in order for them to absorb.. Also L-glutamine is a great one to add...
Hope this helps... If you need anything else I would post a new question and introduce yourself... the site recently had some changes and old posts are jumping to the top...
Why is this sight changing and what if anything will it turn into, anyone have a clue?? I kinda dig reading all your scribes and gain much insight from them and would definitely miss it. Can I get an AMEN brothers and sisters, lol??
I have spent the last few restless days looking at posts etc.. just found out wife has a loratab addiction. I need some help, she has been taking 7 10mg loratabs daily, down to 31/2 to 4 tabs aday now. she took 1 this morning and now we are starting home detox. I have gone out and bought a grocery list but im afraid that i am going to over medicate her. we have 4 xanax for emergencies. i am not sure what i am in for. can anyone give me an idea what to expect day to day? i have the L-tyronine, B-6, Casium, Multi-Vit, Magneese/Zinc/Copper/ Phosphous, Imodium, water, gaterade, oranges, bananas, apples, fish oil, solonpas patches, valeian root, dark choc. Bynadryl, 5HTP, B-complex, Nyquil, Chammoile Tea, blue berries. HELP! I seem to have everything just not sure where to start or what happens if i overlap things. How much and what do i give on day 1? something on days 2-4? how long with this last? Nobody know whats going on. I feel overwhelmed. her last loratab was at 10AM its 3:30 now.
I started taperin down from ultram a few weeks ago - from 10 per day - each 7 day period i go down one pill - i also do the L-tyrosine cocktail in the morning as follows:
4 - 500 mg l-tyrosine
1- 2 mg copper cap
1- 100 mg B6
1 - B complex
1- Vitamin that containes1000 mg calcium, 400 mg Magnesium and 15 mg Zinc
I also found that a B-12 Patch (once a week, as it is like getting a shot of B-12) helps - do a search for B-12 patch they are about $25.00 for a onths supply.
In the evening about a 1/2 hr b4 bedtime:
1- 400 mg Magnesium (helps leg pain and aide sleep)
1 - 50 Mg Niacin (helps sleep and detoxing)
1- 5-HTP that contains 5-HTP, 100 mg. Valareian)
Also found that eating 3 meals a day w/ sm fruit snacks in btwn helps
walking (if at all possible)
I myself thought abt taking too many vitamin supplements and then thought - jeez i take handfuls of pain medicatins without a thought!
in your post i see solonpas patches - what are those?
I hpe all goes well for yo two - it's not easy - thats for sure - but it can be done and she's lucky to have your support (that is so important)
i tried to quit herion for 3 years. I was using at least 100$ a day. I got on methadone.. tried suboxone. .clonidine.. everything.
I am now on day 20 of being clean. I didn't think I could ever do it. This is the way that I did it.
-Get yourself like 200 xanax, valium (strong benzo) (get a prescription and just keep them a month or 2.. or get ur own way.. order online?)
-Prescription from dr. for clonidine (help withdrawls.. a must)
-Good multivitamin (i think it helped me feel better)
-Muscle ache cream like bengay (village naturals natural muscle relief is the brand i used.. i got the lotion and the salts u put in bath.. check out the stuff they got at hardtofindbrands.com or just goto hi-health store, http://hardtofindbrands.com/cf/products_detail.cfm?ItemNum=5234&search=alpha)
-Access to massages/spa
-Ensure (health supplement drinks)
-Immodium (for the runs)
-L-tyrosine (tried this a few of the days.. take this if you want to feel like your tweeking out and need to get something done.. don't take this while on the benzo's)
Wake up drenched in sweat.. start off with like 4 .01MG clonidine and 6 1MG benzo's like xanax. Do whatever u can to not use until that **** starts to kick in. The xanax (when u take enough will not make you know what day.. time or year it is.. hell doing this method u can even drink beer while detoxing from herion.. start to feel like using.. down a fat tire or 2 and u will pass out no matter what. Wake up and repeat until your either our of benzo's or waking up normally. Make sure to not get yourself into any trouble while on all of those benzo's.. maybe have some body that is sober to limit you at like 20 - 30 a day..so 20 - 30 mg a day.. that's about how many i was going thru.. 4 - 6 1MG at a time.
Goto get a massage.. it's 50$.. that ain't **** and you will feel like a new person when you leave you will be suprised...or you can just slam a half gram and have nothing still... sit in the bath/spa all day **** it... Take the immodim as often as needed.. I would usually take 2 of them in the morning and they seemed to work pretty good. You won't feel like eating so drink the ensure's to get rid of the feeling of wanting to faint from no food/nutrition. Take 2 more clonidine during the day if you feel sweaty/stomach hurts.(the clonidine will help with the cold sweats so much).
Now the hard part about this is.. Don't get hooked on the benzo's. I gave my wallet, keys , credit cards, everything to my girlfriend so i wouldn't just take off and be an idiot like i've been alwayse.
You got to get that **** off your mind. Your not getting any. You can't get any. You won't get any. You duno why you feel sick. If you can think nothing about using.. don't think about needles.. get rid of all of them just flush them all so you have none laying around.. you will be to sick to goto Walmart and get new needles if you find cottons laying around and ****.. all that will do is prolong your withdrawling.. if you stick to the method I told you.. it will be quicker then u think.
Get support.. and just ******* do it... it feels good to not have to be constantly worrying about my ******* at least 50$ a day habit. good luck to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
don't get on suboxone or methadone!!! get trapped like everyone else.. If you do descide to try 1 of these.. only take like 1 or 2 suboxone for a few days and then just withdrawl.. or goto methadone clinic they will start you out at 30 mg.. go for like 3 - 4 days.. then just stop going TRUST ME. suboxone and methadone are both just traps
are kidney pains really normal??
i have been using paaz ( alprazolam) as sleeping pills since the past 4 years. and been mixing spasmo proxyvons quite often. The problem is metamphetamines . i take them too on somewhat daily basis. usually in the morning. after breakfast shall i say.
what i encounter is not somekind of RLS but rather kidney pains during detox. and talking about the Thomas recipe, i have just started it.
i dont think this will help at all.
can you like....give me anything that would reduce this pains during detox.
I am detoxing from oxycodone for the umpteenth time. The Thomas Recipe works. But the L Tyrosene will make you skin get brown splotchy areas on your skin if you get out in the sun while taking it in high doses. Just an FYI
i totally agree.....i was on methadone for 3 years and i tried to stop cold turkey...withdrawl was so bad i started taking hydro morphs and then m eslon 100mg to stop the withdrawls...now im hooked on them and scared ******** to go through withdrawl from them.....methadone is a trap....any advice on how to taper down from 150 mg m eslon( morphine) a day to 0??? im soooo scared...i have 15 pills left(100mg m eslon) and hope i can slowly come down....is this possible???? CAN ANYONE TELL ME????
HI Welcome to the forum where not alowd to give out taper plans its ageist the guidelines but we can be breif 15 pills is not enough to taper with trying to come off 150mg normally slow is good and evey few days you cut back a little sorry I have to be brief but its the rules,,,,,go to a dotor and tell him what happened and that you want off they will work up a safe taper program for you
tapering takes lots of discipline but it is doable your morphine dose is high your going to need a doctor to hep you lower it if you can cut it in 1/2 we can detox you here but your to hingh right now to many health risks I wosh you luck with this ........Gnarly
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