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trying to withdrawal from fentanyl plus
I have been on fentanyl for the past five years. I also take Norco 10/325, ambien10, and clonidine. I 've had two back surgeries the last one year ago. Oh the amount of fentanyl I've been using for the past year and a half has been 200 mcg every 48 hours. The injury was a workers comp, issue and the insurance company is the worst out there I think. Anyway since May they have been trying to deny my meds. Since July they have denied my fentanyl all together. I have been milking my last 30 patches since September 8. On the 22 of October, I took the last of my ambient and clonidine. I am on my last 100 mcg patch which have cut in half. I put the first half on last night, and am saving the blast half for Monday. I am really starting to feel horrible. Well actually have been feeling horrible since Wednesday, unable to sleep. Feeling like I want to rip my skin off. I lay in bed at night and sweat like crazy but at the same time,have the shakes and chills. I am only taking 4to 6 Norcross per day as my back pain was not relieved by the surgeries. The only thing that did make the pain bearable was the fentanyl. I am hoping someone can tell me how long I can expect to feel so horrible. If I should just get rid of the last half of patch or should I use it. I feel like I'm losing my mind. I've been dealing with severe depression since my last surgery a year ago. I really hope someone can give me some usable advice . Please.
Robin-
I can walk but it is just excruciating. I've had two surgeries on my lower back and one that went through my belly to remove discs. The second one fixed a problem with the fusion, unfortunately I think it has exacerbated the discs above. I do believe that the withdrawals are making me feel worse, I know they are, I'm just unsure how much, and don't want to do more damage by plodding through. I've made that mistake in the past, before the pain killers came into play.
I know everyone is different. With different ways of reacting to different things. I would have thought I didn't have an addictive personality before this. Now I guess it just isn't possible to take opiates for years and not become dependent on them. Even though I never ever took more than what I was prescribed and alot of the time less, it just isn't possible to not need it after so long I guess. There is so much to do with withdrawals that affect the mind and just the way you perceive your life. I used to think I was a pretty strong person... now.. not so much. And that is hard to take.
This helps. It really does. My husband is great, he tries really hard to understand, but he doesn't feel the pain. I'm not sure if he even understands the issues with withdrawal, even though he used to be very into street drugs. I'm just not sure how far the parallels go there. So any encouragement support, advice or just y'alls own experiences, is a huge help to me. It makes me feel less alone.
Time. Yes I knew time would be the biggest factor. As it is with everything in life. But time can sure be unfriendly.
I can walk but it is just excruciating. I've had two surgeries on my lower back and one that went through my belly to remove discs. The second one fixed a problem with the fusion, unfortunately I think it has exacerbated the discs above. I do believe that the withdrawals are making me feel worse, I know they are, I'm just unsure how much, and don't want to do more damage by plodding through. I've made that mistake in the past, before the pain killers came into play.
I know everyone is different. With different ways of reacting to different things. I would have thought I didn't have an addictive personality before this. Now I guess it just isn't possible to take opiates for years and not become dependent on them. Even though I never ever took more than what I was prescribed and alot of the time less, it just isn't possible to not need it after so long I guess. There is so much to do with withdrawals that affect the mind and just the way you perceive your life. I used to think I was a pretty strong person... now.. not so much. And that is hard to take.
This helps. It really does. My husband is great, he tries really hard to understand, but he doesn't feel the pain. I'm not sure if he even understands the issues with withdrawal, even though he used to be very into street drugs. I'm just not sure how far the parallels go there. So any encouragement support, advice or just y'alls own experiences, is a huge help to me. It makes me feel less alone.
Time. Yes I knew time would be the biggest factor. As it is with everything in life. But time can sure be unfriendly.
You're welcome, honey. Wish I could be of more help. Can you literally not walk, or do you just feel awful?
Is there a sibling, mother, father, aunt, close friend, who can check on you? If not, just keep posting here.
I do know this...the human body is an incredibly machine and habituates to most anything...including being off all drugs. It just takes time. Time takes time..someone in AA told me that and I never forgot it.
Hope you post today...-Robin
Is there a sibling, mother, father, aunt, close friend, who can check on you? If not, just keep posting here.
I do know this...the human body is an incredibly machine and habituates to most anything...including being off all drugs. It just takes time. Time takes time..someone in AA told me that and I never forgot it.
Hope you post today...-Robin
Robin-
Thanks very much for the advice. I have a workers comp attorney, unfortunately with the law changes in CA his hands are tied for the time being.
I realize no-one can give me medical advice, I'm more looking for others experiences, with the withdrawal process. What other people have experienced while trying to end this nightmare. I was on a very high dose and will NOT be going back to that. But I have to be able to move. I'm hoping to hear from someone with a similar situation and how they either handled it or are handling it. My family is suffering and I'm having as much trouble with that as with the withdrawals. My husband has to work, we live in very rural northern ca and he would just have to take too much time off for him to be able to accompany me. Although I really like the idea.
I believe I will talk to my husband about talking to a personal injury attorney. Maybe we can go a different route. And get somewhere.
Thank you for the support.
~Debbie~
Debbie:
I am an insurance broker...have you considered talking to an attorney? Personal injury lawyer will generally take cases on contingency (they only get paid when you get paid.)
California is a TDI state, right? (State mandated disability). Can you apply for SSDI? It's a laborious process, but if you've been disabled 5 months, you can apply. Expect to be turned down on the first and possibly second try.
What kind of work did you do?
No one here can tell you if you should be on pain medication or not. We aren't doctors...most of us are trying to get OFF opiates. I do not know what your specific medical condition is. Only a trained physician can tell you if you truly are a candidate for a lower dose of pain medication.
These are hard decisions. I've I were you, I'd have my husband come WITH me to the doctor. And you might just consider having a free consultation with an attorney,. You were injured on the job, and how you're being denied quality of life.
The level of pain you're experiencing in withdrawals is NOT your true level of pain. I know this first hand, trust me. When your mu opiod receptors are screaming for that Fentanyl, you develop hyperalgesia...which means increased sense of pain. it is magnified exponentially.
My first week of stopping the oxycodone completely, my back pain came roaring back 1000% worse than it ever was. But now, at 37 days, it Is not as bad. Is it there? Yes.
I have legitimate pain issues that make it hard for me to work as well...but I've chose NOT to be on paid meds. You and your doctor are the only ones who an decide what is right for you.
I will pray for you...good luck sweetie...
-robin
I am an insurance broker...have you considered talking to an attorney? Personal injury lawyer will generally take cases on contingency (they only get paid when you get paid.)
California is a TDI state, right? (State mandated disability). Can you apply for SSDI? It's a laborious process, but if you've been disabled 5 months, you can apply. Expect to be turned down on the first and possibly second try.
What kind of work did you do?
No one here can tell you if you should be on pain medication or not. We aren't doctors...most of us are trying to get OFF opiates. I do not know what your specific medical condition is. Only a trained physician can tell you if you truly are a candidate for a lower dose of pain medication.
These are hard decisions. I've I were you, I'd have my husband come WITH me to the doctor. And you might just consider having a free consultation with an attorney,. You were injured on the job, and how you're being denied quality of life.
The level of pain you're experiencing in withdrawals is NOT your true level of pain. I know this first hand, trust me. When your mu opiod receptors are screaming for that Fentanyl, you develop hyperalgesia...which means increased sense of pain. it is magnified exponentially.
My first week of stopping the oxycodone completely, my back pain came roaring back 1000% worse than it ever was. But now, at 37 days, it Is not as bad. Is it there? Yes.
I have legitimate pain issues that make it hard for me to work as well...but I've chose NOT to be on paid meds. You and your doctor are the only ones who an decide what is right for you.
I will pray for you...good luck sweetie...
-robin
Hello Survivor-
Thank you again for the response. As I mentioned to Lulu747, I am considering going back on a lower dose of fentanyl. I may have figured out why I have been being denied for my meds. I would have to do with the drs staff not doing their job, for which I will be having a conversation with her about on Tuesday. Please give me any advice you believe will help. I'm at the end of my rope, and don't know how much more I can take. Thanks for the support.
Thank you again for the response. As I mentioned to Lulu747, I am considering going back on a lower dose of fentanyl. I may have figured out why I have been being denied for my meds. I would have to do with the drs staff not doing their job, for which I will be having a conversation with her about on Tuesday. Please give me any advice you believe will help. I'm at the end of my rope, and don't know how much more I can take. Thanks for the support.
Lulu-
Again thanks for the support. I am seriously considering asking my doctor for a lower dose of fentanyl. I am not doing well with these withdrawals or the subsequent pain. I know I was on a really high dose and to just quit is really hard, my husband doesn't want me to go near the stuff again, and I understand why. I'm a week in off the fentanyl completely. The Norco isn't doing much. I did finally get a refill on the clonidine, and that helps a bit, but I still can't move. I mean really can't move. I'm unsure now if it is the pain from my injury or the stupid withdrawals. If someone out there can give me a little bit of light at the end of those he'll, I'll think twice about it. I'm really concerned because I have to travel to Texas for Thanksgiving to visit my daughter and do want to be in this kind of shape. Any advice, any support is greatly appreciated.
Again thanks for the support. I am seriously considering asking my doctor for a lower dose of fentanyl. I am not doing well with these withdrawals or the subsequent pain. I know I was on a really high dose and to just quit is really hard, my husband doesn't want me to go near the stuff again, and I understand why. I'm a week in off the fentanyl completely. The Norco isn't doing much. I did finally get a refill on the clonidine, and that helps a bit, but I still can't move. I mean really can't move. I'm unsure now if it is the pain from my injury or the stupid withdrawals. If someone out there can give me a little bit of light at the end of those he'll, I'll think twice about it. I'm really concerned because I have to travel to Texas for Thanksgiving to visit my daughter and do want to be in this kind of shape. Any advice, any support is greatly appreciated.
LU-
I REALLY appreciated your post. I wish I lived in Canada. I live in California. I was injured at work, so the insurance that is supposed to be covering this and has for the last nine years is workers compensation insurance. The laws have changed so dramatically here that the laws are protecting the insurance co. For the last 9 years I have had to fight for every approval that wasn't drugs, now this past July they changed another rule that allows them to be able to deny medication as they submit the request to their Dr. And they deny out of hand without ever looking at my medical records. It's really bs unfortunately I can't afford the patches on my own because f this fiasco, I lost my job my. disability ran out in September and I haven't heard from them as yet, so I am stuck in limbo with these idiots. I will definitely keep posting this is extremely helpful to me. Thank you
I REALLY appreciated your post. I wish I lived in Canada. I live in California. I was injured at work, so the insurance that is supposed to be covering this and has for the last nine years is workers compensation insurance. The laws have changed so dramatically here that the laws are protecting the insurance co. For the last 9 years I have had to fight for every approval that wasn't drugs, now this past July they changed another rule that allows them to be able to deny medication as they submit the request to their Dr. And they deny out of hand without ever looking at my medical records. It's really bs unfortunately I can't afford the patches on my own because f this fiasco, I lost my job my. disability ran out in September and I haven't heard from them as yet, so I am stuck in limbo with these idiots. I will definitely keep posting this is extremely helpful to me. Thank you
Hey Debbie-
I am so sorry and kinda angry that you are in this position due to insurance. Will the insurance not cover ANY meds or just the Fentanyl?
I was on Fentanyl after surgery in 2010. 150 mcg/48 hours plus 40 mg hydro for breakthrough pain. I tapered down to 25 mcg/48 hours and then switched to an equivalent dose of oral opiates and tapered down from there using clonidine. Then I got tired of tapering and jumped off a pretty high dose of oxy (150 mg)
I had some mild withdrawal when I did the switch, but it was manageable (I used clonidine)
Jumping off that high a dose to just a few norcos a day is going to be awful. There is no way around that. Because you were not abusing these meds this is NOT fair. I would fight very hard for proper care here, because the long term ramifications are not good. It will take a long time to heal. You did not ask for this and I'm sorry it is happening. When I read stories like yours it makes me feel grateful that I live in Canada. That being said, most doctors here have no idea how to successfully taper their patients off of the drugs they so readily prescribe. After a decade of chronic pain and illness and many surgeries I have FINALLY found a doctor who is knowledgeable in a proper taper and I am very grateful for that.
I don't know how insurance works down there but are you able to apply for some kind of emergency insurance? What would be ideal would be a switch to an oral opiate and a proper taper with the aid of clonidine. Please talk to your doctor and see if there is ANYTHING they can do to help you.
Maybe they can write a letter to your insurance company or do something?
I am very sorry you are in this position. Keep posting and we will do whatever we can to support you-
Lu
I am so sorry and kinda angry that you are in this position due to insurance. Will the insurance not cover ANY meds or just the Fentanyl?
I was on Fentanyl after surgery in 2010. 150 mcg/48 hours plus 40 mg hydro for breakthrough pain. I tapered down to 25 mcg/48 hours and then switched to an equivalent dose of oral opiates and tapered down from there using clonidine. Then I got tired of tapering and jumped off a pretty high dose of oxy (150 mg)
I had some mild withdrawal when I did the switch, but it was manageable (I used clonidine)
Jumping off that high a dose to just a few norcos a day is going to be awful. There is no way around that. Because you were not abusing these meds this is NOT fair. I would fight very hard for proper care here, because the long term ramifications are not good. It will take a long time to heal. You did not ask for this and I'm sorry it is happening. When I read stories like yours it makes me feel grateful that I live in Canada. That being said, most doctors here have no idea how to successfully taper their patients off of the drugs they so readily prescribe. After a decade of chronic pain and illness and many surgeries I have FINALLY found a doctor who is knowledgeable in a proper taper and I am very grateful for that.
I don't know how insurance works down there but are you able to apply for some kind of emergency insurance? What would be ideal would be a switch to an oral opiate and a proper taper with the aid of clonidine. Please talk to your doctor and see if there is ANYTHING they can do to help you.
Maybe they can write a letter to your insurance company or do something?
I am very sorry you are in this position. Keep posting and we will do whatever we can to support you-
Lu
This forum is turning out to be a huge help. Thank you. I do have an appt with my primary Dr. Tomorrow and I'm telling her asking her about the withdrawals. The only issue is without the insurance co approval any med is denied. Which is what started this issue. The patches I use don't have the gel inside. They are just a patch,if they were the gel kind I soooo would not be cutting them. Thank you very much for the support. I will definitely he talking to the Dr. Tomorrow. This is sounding like it is going to be harder than I originally thought. Ugh!
U poor dear... sorry to hear all the insurance trouble,I've been there... I was buying my fentanyl and other prescription s out of pocket for two yrs....so u are still in daily pain but r choosing to quit the fentanyl because of the ins denial,correct? Cause quitting that fast even at 100mcg is toooo fast... u can get serious withdrawals... I was on 150mcg/72hrs and percentage 10/325 up to 6a day...the fentanyl was rough and tricky because of the patch doses. I was told to never cut them but I did find a way to just peel part of seal off and apply half at a time by folding and taping the unused portion... the doctor I saw to get advice to get off my meds is a part-time staff at a local inpatient facility for alcohol&substance addiction. He said u can actually have life threatening issues when withdrawing from huge doses of strong stuff like fentanyl....so take care and use common sense if ur body can't take the withdrawing and get medical attention...u r in a very rough situation and probably feel scared about how bad it will get...and it will get worse for a while when the half life of the fentanyl is all gone... u can hope ur other med will compensate to make up for loss of fentanyl but that can only work for a few days and then u gotta cut that back too or that creates another monster. Slow is the only way I know to not crash but that ship has sailed for u if ur on ur last patch.... I think u need to get ur doctors help if that is possible. My intention is not to increase fear for u but I'm truly concerned about the shell that follows quitting without a taper... take care ,god b with u,and please let us know how ur doing!
Thanks for posting. Yes they were Mylan patches. And as I was trying to get at least a little sleep, I thought I would cut the last half in half. And wear it when I can't stand the symptoms anymore.
I have to say I'm really worried about being able to do this. I want to be off all the stuff off completely, but I'm really worried about my pain. I know the pain is going to crease with the withdrawals, but then there is the pain that comes with just my back being jacked. I have 2 kids left at home and even with the meds I was unable.to cook.dinner on an every night basis. So there is depression about not being the mom I want to be be. My husband tries
to help but he isn't much. He doesn't get the pain.
The thing that is getting to me is the not being able to sleep. And the sweating and chills. Wish me luck, I think I'm really going to need it.
I have to say I'm really worried about being able to do this. I want to be off all the stuff off completely, but I'm really worried about my pain. I know the pain is going to crease with the withdrawals, but then there is the pain that comes with just my back being jacked. I have 2 kids left at home and even with the meds I was unable.to cook.dinner on an every night basis. So there is depression about not being the mom I want to be be. My husband tries
to help but he isn't much. He doesn't get the pain.
The thing that is getting to me is the not being able to sleep. And the sweating and chills. Wish me luck, I think I'm really going to need it.
oh i feel for you. i was on 50 mcg patch for almost a year. i stopped it pretty much cold turkey on july 7, 2014.
i will be honest and say the worst will take about 15 days. maybe longer since you were on a much higher dose and for much longer.
i would say it is irresponsible for that insurance company or doctor to just stop giving you the meds without weaning you down first.
you are going to be in pain. i would wear the patch you have on for as long as possible and then do the same with the next patch. i think if it were me and they were the mylan patches, i would ration it even more by making it smaller.
as i said, my last patch was july 7 th and i am still not ok. the worst of the stuff is over, but still have NO ENERGY and severely fatigued and get RLS and cannot sleep at all without otc sleep aids.
hang in there and keep posting. it is going to be a rough ride. i would talk to the doctor because these meds should not just be stopped.
i will be honest and say the worst will take about 15 days. maybe longer since you were on a much higher dose and for much longer.
i would say it is irresponsible for that insurance company or doctor to just stop giving you the meds without weaning you down first.
you are going to be in pain. i would wear the patch you have on for as long as possible and then do the same with the next patch. i think if it were me and they were the mylan patches, i would ration it even more by making it smaller.
as i said, my last patch was july 7 th and i am still not ok. the worst of the stuff is over, but still have NO ENERGY and severely fatigued and get RLS and cannot sleep at all without otc sleep aids.
hang in there and keep posting. it is going to be a rough ride. i would talk to the doctor because these meds should not just be stopped.
Thanks for your reply. After reading up on everything I've been taking, I believe that obviously I am dependant on these drugs, I don't however ever take more than I'm supposed to and never run out. I always have norcos left at the end of the month. The fentanyl was the only one I used regularlary until this past month and a half. And made them last for two months almost.
I will check out the Thomas recipe. I have chronic low back pain , but if I get off all this medication I'm going to think long and hard about using them again after my appointment with a new pain manager.
This is a seriously messed up feeling and I do not like it. Oh and I'm 49, so will that make my withdrawals longer or shorter, because I'm wiser with age. :)
I appreciate all advice on this issue. It helps.
I will check out the Thomas recipe. I have chronic low back pain , but if I get off all this medication I'm going to think long and hard about using them again after my appointment with a new pain manager.
This is a seriously messed up feeling and I do not like it. Oh and I'm 49, so will that make my withdrawals longer or shorter, because I'm wiser with age. :)
I appreciate all advice on this issue. It helps.
Hi. Hang tight because it's late at nite for most and you may not get lots of responses til tomorrow. But, I can tell you that of course, you are in withdrawl. Go to the Thomas recipe on this forum and get the stuff that's listed on there. Withdrawl can last from 5 to 7 to 10 days depending on age, amount of meds, general health etc. Take HOT bathes. Hot as you can stand. This will relax you and help w/ aches/pains. Unfortunately, that dreaded word: TIME is really the only guarantee in feeling better.
You didn't say, but since this is a substance abuse forum, are you looking to quit those opiates? Do you think you may have a problem? Let us know:)
We all know how bad it sux; we've all been there. You aren't losing your mind, so don't worry. Just gotta ride this out.
You didn't say, but since this is a substance abuse forum, are you looking to quit those opiates? Do you think you may have a problem? Let us know:)
We all know how bad it sux; we've all been there. You aren't losing your mind, so don't worry. Just gotta ride this out.
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