vicodin

[tonny13]

After 3 years of 7 Vicodin Es's a day,I am now down to 4.  Will I always continue to want them and I don't just mean the withdrawal cravings, I expected those. I have recently just admitted to myself that there is a twisted, sick part of me that does not even want to quit. I understand that I have to quit for many reasons, but that does not mean that I completely want to.  I started taking them for chronic back pain, actually compression fractures. I have heard of people who self medicated with opiates for depression, I have never struggled with that, but I am seeing now that I did self medicate by continuing to take them for chronic sometimes debilitating fatigue. I never expected the burst of energy they gave me.  I took diet pills back in the early 90's after having my children, they didn't give me energy like the vics do, nothing ever has. I have never before had a problem with an addiction to anything. But, I'm afraid that I will miss these pills until the day I die, which I understand will be sooner rather than later if I continue to stay on them. I think what scares me the most is hearing people say, you will not quit until you completely want it. Does the fact that I still like the pills doom me to fail?  I'm seeing now that I can handle the physical realities of being off of them, and I believe that I have the willpower to stay off of them. After all, we all do things we don't like to do all the time. Will counseling maybe help with feelings like this?

[AmberHunter]

it has been my experience that i will continue to miss that warm, all is well with the world feeling that narcotics give me, until i go to my grave. i think that you go through a period of almost mourning the loss of taking the pills. i know i used them as a coping mechanism, to combat fatigue and just to feel "good". the price i was paying (and i am not talking about monetary) to keep this unatural feeling going on got to be too high. the consequences were to high. just yesterday i was thinking about this as i lay on the exam table at my docs... i hadn't gone in there wanting pills, it was just a routine check up. but after i was laying there for a bit all of the old thoughts started to go through my head... but i somehow found the strength to not ask him for pain meds. number one, i wasn't IN pain... not that that has ever mattered!

it has been almost six months since i have abused narcotics. and most days i don't think about them. most days. and at one time i had eight years clean off of narcotics and could literally go for weeks and months without obsessing over them.

the doc will be along soon to share his wisdom with you! ;-)

peace,

amber

[terter]

The doc will give you an educated answer as I have only experience and others here are also more educated through experience. & down to 4 es'a day isn't a high number I took up to 20 a day for almost 3 years. Since it's been 3 years for you, I would guess you have had some kind of strength to keep it at a somewhat low dose, not to say you won't have problems getting off and it will be a struggle, continue to tapper down slow. The L-Thyrosine and 5hp suppliments help with the fatigue you can get them from a vitamin store like good earth the full recipe is in an earlier post. I spent my first 38 years never being an addict, and was proud of the fact that in my family w/3 brothers and sisters I was the only one drug free, until I got hurt at work and started taking pain meds, I am tappering with a drug through a doctor as my last attempts failed. If you still have pain you may want to see a doc that will address that, there is no reason that you should suffer, The fatigue you desribe is probably caused from tappering down to a lower dose, and it is suppose to get better I haven't reached that yet. Your lucky to not have had depression and you still may, there are meds for that too. Good luck I admire your strength. Terri

[southernbelle]

It's me, Southernbelle.
I'm coming out of my w/d --- oh gosh, it's never worth it, is it?  It feels so good to take those pills, but my god when you go c/t ---- DAMN!
I'm not out of the woods yet.  You know ---  the crying, that ever-present longing to call that doc and lie so you can get more.  And the bad thing is, my neck is killing me.  Man, it's tough to be strong.  I'm doing the best I can, following the recipe and all, but I still feel messed up.  Severely messed up.  
I wanted to let everybody know I had my email at home disconnected, but they did it before I could let anybody know.  PLEASE, my friends (you know who you are) and anybody else....please email me some encouragement at my new email address.  It is ***@****.
I love all of you.  Please send some positive energy my way, and I will do the same.

[southernbelle]

Right now I'm going through w/d, so all I can say is that I love you, whoever you are.  Stick around here.  You'll find acceptance and advice that you can trust.  I will send as much positive energy your way as I can.  You can do it.  You can do this.  Please stay in touch and posting, okay?  Truly, non-judgemental LOVE to you!  Hang in there.

[southernbelle]

I'm sorry I haven't been able to respond to you, my email problems are described in my post below...
Love and appreciation to each of you.  Please write to me at the email address I posted below (***@****), so we can talk. I have to access that email away from my house, because I had my line disconnected (two phones is enough).  So if it takes me a couple of days to respond, please don't worry.  I miss your encouragement and humor!
Sorry for wasting important room --- I'll stop now.

[tonny13]

Thanks for the support, everyone.
Terri, I'm ashamed to say that it hasn't had much to do with strength keeping me down to a somewhat low dose for all of these years. I think it had more to do with my tolerance being low to begin with. After all of this time, I still get a buzz from taking 1 vicodin. Believe me, if my tolerances were different, I would probably have been up there with you at 20 a day. You wouldn't believe the crazy lengths that I have gone through to make sure I always kept up my supply. I have more respect for someone coming off of an amount like that and think you probably have more strength than me. I am taking the L tyrosine and some of the other vitamins recommended on here and they do seem to be helping a bit. My problem with the tiredness actually  has been with me my whole life, long before any opiate use or tapering. Before I ever touched a drug, I've lost a job because I was just too tired to go to work. Nothing ever helped with that before vicodin, not that the vics are really helping, I know they're just masking it, but I think that is one of the reasons I got so addicted. I'm glad to hear your doctor's appt. went well and the subutex is working for you so far.
Southernbelle, my thoughts are with you. I will keep emailing you.

[hippy]

vikes were my problem , i took them for rotator cuff
pain and then operations for about a year or so as prescribed.
then  the death of my younger brother along with a few other famly deaths is a short period of time and i found myself
abuseing the vikes and wound up takeing 10 to 15 a day and
more. they sucked the life right out of me , and i stoped getting any buzz from them, and was just taking them to function. so i could get to work. In the end they started to make me feel like ****.i kept tring to get off them , but
the depression and lack of energy kicked my butt.
i felt like i was 100 years old every morning i woke up.
i was clueless about what was happening to me untill i found this fourm, and it cleaded up a lot of what was happening and why. i had been clean for 16 years in na before i started on the vikes, i was unaware of how addictive they were and how
complacated and painfull the withdrawls were.
well thanks to all the good people here i learned a lot  about
opiates and there effects on the body.
along with the recipe and lots of encouragement from the good folks here , i found my way back to a life without drugs.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hippy i will always be gratefull to
everyone here.  I still go to na meetings i have been going
since i was 16  im 43 and i still love to go to meetings.
It's a place where i get to give something back.
along with living a life based on an awakeining of the spirit.
and practicing spritual principles on a daily basis.

[KimH]

It is so great to here everyone share! I talked to my mom and she has had a hard time w/life. She had breat cancer and went through radiation, kemo, sickness, loss of hair, self, she became bitter. I was strung out on methadone & herion! I know the 2 don't mix but I found a way, spit out my dose into a pill bottle, did my herion and the next day took a double dose of methadone! My mom did not drive, I lived litteraly around the corner, had a car, and did not once ever offer to drive her to a doc's appointment, never went to her surgery, never even visited her! Sickening! I know! I also know I shouldn't dwell on the past but how hard is that! Now she is addicted to vikes she got and she had been taking benzo's. She became a bitter woman! Very bitter! Well but for the grace of God she is saved! She told me she has "found God" and is 2 1/2 weeks off the benzo's and also down to 4 vikes a day. I have a chance to help her now and I feel it is a second chance. Thank you to everyone out here who has posted suggestions and I gave her all of them. She is a changed woman! If anyone finds out about the feelings of agoraphobia please let me know. She is suffering from this as well, but I think it is a symptom of withdrawel as she hadn't had this before. I want more than anything to have a loving relationship with my mom! I have always wanted that and feel this is my chance! Doner, God bless you! I pray for you everynight and I know what you are going through because I was there! It's hard but you can do it! I have faith in you! Everyone else, about the energy thing it is getting hard for me! I can keep myself clean, but my house is a frigin wreck and I have no energy to clean, however, looking at the mess is making it worse because the way my house looks is how I feel my head looks inside! I am trying to set goals! It helps to give yourself small goals everyday and try your best to acomplish any you can even if they start small! Sorry about this long post, but I am feeling a little discouraged as well! Why does life have to be one struggle after another? Is that why we are here? I also have so much of me I need to change It seems overwhelming! I am afraid I am too much of a looser to work at this new job I have! I feel I'm not good enough but I know that is not true, because I felt that way about starting a college course 5 weeks behind! I said I'll never pass and got an A. I'm just feeling where do I start to put the pieces back together? I still feel strong in making it off the pills! Still determined! But what about all the rest? I am a mess and don't know where to start! So many changes! help! What do you do after sobriety? What next? KIMH

[percsnomas]

you have mail

[percsnomas]

......all of what Hippee said, and live in the bath tub if you have to!!!  The hot water soaks really got me through.

percs

[Huiler]

Hi, Kim H.
Your words made me feel like reaching out to you. I identify so much with those feelings of not being good enough to do things, even when you prove it to yourself you are. For me, those feelings came from the way I was treated by my parents - my mother a sort of emotionally absent rage-aholic and my father just emotionally (and physically) absent. On top of that, my mother had sort of a mocking sense of humor which would bring up strong feelings of shame in me when she laid it on me.I wound up with this permanent bad feeling inside about myself. Anyway, you probably have your own influences from the past that linger on in you. Getting in touch directly with those feelings of shame and probable feelings of anger (I would guess) at the shame perpetrators -and at yourself, probably, and then finding a new way to be in relationship with yourself - more low key, more accepting, more self aware - is one of the goals. This has really helped me. Gestalt therapy has helped me the most, over the years. I am no longer controlled by addiction in big ways now, although still in small ways. I can look people in the eye (sometimes!) I feel that I do good things in my job sometimes. I work as a methadone counselor, and I'm really into helping people get in touch with their inner selves, as well as learn about the characteristics of addiction. I believe in therapy so much that I still see a therapist myself. It's still very important to me. I was so hurt by my upbringing that I had very little feeling of Self inside. (I'm not saying that the answer lies in blaming your parents - it's just a place to start, to understand the origins of inner troubles. Just blaming and then sitting back does no good at all.) Support from peers is a wonderful thing when you have troubles, too. This forum seems like a very healing place to find help. I went to a 12-step program for years and this is the kind of help I got there. I really recommend those, too, if you can fit your ideology in with theirs.
Maybe you can find a good counseling or therapist, Kim, one that knows about addiction.
Hoping you will get help and feel better.
H.

[lisabet]

hey hippee - just wanted to say "HI", and glad to see you posting.  I'm not doing so well - have gone back up to 6-8 vics a day, after holding at about 4 for so many months.  I "KNOW" in my heart, like our buddy percs has suggested many times, that I just need to go cold turkey, but I'm so scared to do that.  BUT----my son has left with my ex to go to the beach for the week, so I feel now may be the best time to take a few vacation days from work, and try to work on getting off the junk.  I've gotten some valium from one of my friends, plus some ambien from my OB doctor, so if nothing else, maybe I can "sleep" through some of the Withdrawals...smile.  I also have the Thomas recipe printed out, so please wish me luck - I've estimated I'm wasting about $300-$400 a month on this ****, ( A LOT for a single mom) and I KNOW I have to start saving for my son's college, car insurance, etc.  I KNOW what I need to do - it's just doing it!!!  Please keep me in your prayers, and send good thoughts and energy my way.  Love ya, Michael - you've always been an inspiration to me.  Love, Lisabet

[bmac]

Call me babe if you want to! I know this sux but you will make it, I promise. I aqm here if you wanna talk! Bill

[Jerri2]

You go girl!!I'll be here for you if you need me!I'm the Queen of wds!!Ya know that though!We tend to scare ourselfs more than needed though!Coming off that low of a dose isnt as bad as the peeps that come off of oxys,patches.meth,and all the stronger stuff.Its like having a bad flu.But if you do all the things you've read about it helps alot.The walking and hot bathes are the main thing,And the vitamins of course!Lots of fluids and force yourself to eat!!!IMODIUM (immodium) is a must!!I know you already know all this and I'll be right here for ya babe!!Love ya sweetie..Jerri

[hippy]

hey liz, sounds like a good plan, take advantage of the time
if you can. the hard part is 5 days. you may want to get some cinemet for restless legs from a doctor.
don't be afraid to take the 8 500mgs of l-tyrosine each
morning along with the b-6 and the rest of the receipe.
don't forget the imodium (immodium), it keeps the nutreints in your body.
without the imodium (immodium) the with drwals are worse then they have to be,
drink lots of liquids, water, and gatoraid in the early part of the day.

my prayers are with you, and keep posting.

peace!!!!!!hippy////michael

[tonny13]

I know exactly where you are coming from. I'm a single mom too and spend approx. the same amount you do per month. That is so much for us. One of the things that made me finally decide to try and give the vics up is a couple of weeks ago when my car broke down, I chose buying the pills over fixing the car. It makes me cringe when I think about it. Also having kids to take care of and being the sole source of income makes it so hard to get the down time to go c/t. That has been my excuse for eons to not even try. I'm so proud of you that you recognize that you do have some time for it now. IMO, just saying the time is now takes strength. For me the time for it was always later, much much later. Best of luck to you, you will be in my thoughts.

[teeitup]

Hello ladies, think about ya'll all the time. Haven't posted in a while but still read. Hang in there and just keep trying, never giving up is the most important thing! I'll be thinking of you both!

Teeitup!

[istillbelieve]

This is my first time posting so I hope I get it right. I really feel it is a miracle I somehow found this forum. After reading all the posts I just can't believe it. I am not alone after all! I got hooked on painkillers after surgery. I am now on about 20 10/325 hydrocodones a day for the past year! My fiancee has been worried for a long time now but I have always told him I was not addicted. I have read so many articles claiming that narcotic meds are not addictive. Then one day I ran out of my meds. After only 12 hours I truly thought I was going to die. I have never felt worse in my life. As the day went on I became so depressed I wanted to die. I couldn't believe how quickly and intense my withdrawl symptoms came on. I was DESPERATE for relief so I went to the ER claiming to have a migraine. ( I was  truly in pain, but from withdrawl not a migraine) I was given a shot of Demerol and felt much better. They gave me a small prescription for Vicodin that lasted until I could get my regular meds. After that incident I vowed to never run out of my meds again.

That was a few months ago, since then I have become terrified of running out of my meds and having to go cold turkey, but I am even more terrified that I will not be able to get off these horrible pills. I have tried to taper off but it just doesn't work for me. I got information on a rapid detox program (They basically put you in a coma and give you medication to flush all narcotics out or your body. You are totally  out so you do not feel the withdrawls. When you wake up you are supposedly drug freee.) It sounded great but it costs $10,000!!! If only!

I am obsessed with getting off pain meds but I just can't do it! I feel like such a failure. How could I have let this happen to me? Why wasn't I warned about how addictive these pills are? It just makes me so mad. I am too embarrased to go to my regular Doc. I am so ashamed!

I don't know what to do or who to go to for help. But I truly know that If don't get help soon I will die. I just can't live like this anymore. I am sorry for being so down but I just can't hide this anymore and I am desperate! desperate for help!
I would be so grateful if anyone out there could give me some advise/help on getting my life back.

Thanks!
Allyson
***@****

[TheEnd]

I'm a new lurker posting finally... I was a 10/325 user for back pain for a year that escalated and became dependent at up to 20 a day at my worst -- maybe more.  I am astonished this is what happened and how I am... it's not what I wanted as none of us ever did.

Here's my thing, I just found out I am pregnant - at 14 days conception from an ER trip, and immediately began a taper schedule.  In the meantime, my husband found out of my abuse and freaked.  He made me tell my OB and we got dropped from the practice immediately.  I work in healthcare, so I am aware of the risks to my unborn child at 6 weeks -- and I have been taking an acceptable dose during my taper from 4 weeks on of pregnancy.  

Don't hate me b/c I am pregnant and still using Norco -- again, I have talked to my OB and am going to a specialist group to ensure there are no abnormalities and will continue to taper off.  Thank god I am doing well with this taper and will STOP for good for sure.

You know, we all face problems in life -- addiction for many of us is a hard thing to face and conquer.  Me, being a pregnant woman has a motivation that unfortunately and thankfully many of us users do not encounter during use or recovery.  I am no better or worse than anyone - I just have a HUGE reason to quit for good.

Here's a couple of my fears...
I am a recovered alchoholic, but can drink on occasion with no problems whatsoever.  Will I be the same with pain medications?
For my last dose of norco -- I have been prescribed Stadol NS for 5 days x3 doses a day to deal with withdrawals.  Does anyone have experience with this?  I was told by the dr it is safe in pregnancy and actually was given stadol NS during my first preg in 92.  But does it help with w/ds?  I don't anticipate big w/ds because I am tapering down -- but when I am on 2 a day for 3 days, and then 1 a day for 3 days and flush the rest -- will I have withdrawals and will the stadol help?  The taper has been over a 3 week period and I have been "addicted" to the taper -- ie following my schedule religiously...  

Anyone with comments or info on hydro and birth complications/defects, please email me.  Anyone with info on my questions, please email.

God bless us all... the strength to recover and stop can come from anywhere -- as long as it comes and you use it.  I pray for myself, my baby, my family, and everyone else on this board or planet recovering from addiction.

[teeitup]

Don't beat your self up. We all started out the same way, using for real pain and then for the buzz. The main thing is you realize you need help and most of all you want help. I started on this forum about a year ago and reading and posting was the best therapy in the world. I try and live by 2 motto's, "take less today than yesterday" and "learn to use not abuse". I have a rare condition that keeps me in constant pain so doing without hydro is not an option. I just try and use it for my physical pain and not the mental pain of life, work, family etc.. Like most I backslide and take them even when I feel pretty good, it's hard not to get down when I mess, that's when I read the forum and get some strength. Like I said, you've taken the first step. Now read, post, try and form a plan and do the best you can to stick to it. Good luck and I'll try and email you when I can. You and anyone else can reach me @ ***@****.

Teeitup!

[KimH]

Hi, I am tapering off meds too. You can do it and it can be done!I have an addiction of ultram and I tried to taper myself off as well but It did not work! I have tapered off other things, The way I did it was, 1- tell someone! The more you talk about it the more you will heal (if it is someone you have that will support you). It sounds like your guy does care. 2- have a plan! Sit down with whoever you tell and have a plan to say, drop 1/2 pill every few days or every week depending on how many you have or can get access too. 3- have the person HOLD YOUR PILLS! Ask them to give you what you need for the day, and leave them in the open so whoever can check to make sure your not taking them all at once. 4- Get support! These places are great! I'm sure other people can offer suggestions as well. It looks like this forum is going to close, if you want to, email me! ***@**** and the name is KIM                    KIMH

[arly]

Hi. This is my first time posting a comment, but I have been reading the forum for a couple weeks. I have been on Vicodin since Feb. The most I took was 3 5/500 or 7.5/500's a day. Towards the end I tapered to one pill a day. I am definfietly expierncing some W/Ds. Upset stopmach, anxiety and depression. I am so disappointed in myself for letting my addiction get this far. I was wondering if my W/Ds will be minor, due to my semi low dosage? I am into my second clean day. Had some upset stomach this morning..and lots of depression. How long should all this last?  Is there anything I can do to ease it?  I have been exercising and drinkinh lots, etc. Thanks for such a wonderful forum. It is nice to know I am not alone!

[tonny13]

First of all, no one here would ever hate you. We all understand, besides, you found out you are pregnant, you are getting help. What's to hate?

I'm a little confused. Do you think your first OB may be over-reacting a little bit by dropping you from the practice? Is it because of the acetomenophen? If I remember correctly, I was advised to not take much tylenol during the first trimester. As far as the hydrocodone goes, I believe (I'm not an expert by any means) that the main risk from it is the addictive qualities to the baby. However, you are tapering so early on in your pregnancy and will be completely off for so long before you give birth, I can't really understand how this could be an issue. I have never heard of any other harmful effects.

You said yourself you were prescribed stadol ns during a previous pregnancy, which is an opiate. I have been prescribed vicodin during my 8th month and my cousin took tylenol#3's all through her pregnancy and all of our babies have turned out beautiful and healthy. I really think you are going to be off well in time for there to be no complications. Don't worry so much if you can help it. I think stress can actually be a more harmful factor than what you are worrying about.

As far as the stadol and the withdrawals. I wish I could give you a definitive answer. I would guess it would help, especially since you have tapered off the hydro. And will you be able to take opiates again with no problems, I honestly don't know. I think it mostly depends on the person. This board is full of people who are taking their meds responsibly for pain only. There are so many people on this board who are more knowledgeable than I especially on the stadol/and taking meds again subjects, hopefully you will get some better answers than what I have.
Be proud of what you have accomplished so far, honesty with your doctors and your husband, and mostly your commitment and success with tapering. My thoughts are with you. Email me anytime. ***@****     Anyone else too, please, it honestly helps keep me from dosing myself up all the time to concentrate on someone elses problems instead of my own for awhile. In case anyone else was wondering why I came out of the woodwork a week ago and turned myself into chatty Kathy answering every post on the board, that is why. Thanks everyone for reading all of my rambling:)

[lisabet]

GOD - IT'S SO GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU!!  Oops-didn't mean to yell - just excited...smile.  I've thought about you so many times.  You're such a great example of one who has pain and has learned to take the meds responsibly (with a few exceptions, as you stated)...smile.   But that just means you're only human, alas... :)  Hope you'll join us on Mrs. Rat's forum - fantastic people such as yourself is always welcome!  I've missed ya! Glad to hear you're still hanging in there.  You always had a kind word for people, and good advice.  Your good heart always shined through!!!  Love you - keep in touch, Lisabet

[BPC]

I can't say I'm happy to see so many people have gone through the same thing but it certainly makes it easier to hear all these stories. I tore my ACL skiing back in winter, then had some dental work done, then finally had surgery, then started dating a girl who continually had oxycontin. I've been hitting the vic and ox for several months now and finally ran out last week. I always felt like if I could take a fist full of pills and go to work and surf and continue on with my daily routine and life, who cares? Right? What I'm going through now I never imagined possible. You feel like taking your skin off with a straight razor. You can fall asleep but wake up an hour later soaked in sweat and spinning in your sheets like a pig on a spit. I've literally had less than 5 hours of sleep in almost 6 days. It's fun coming to work and feeling the sweat break out down your back and your teeth grit as someone asks you to join a meeting. I'm not trying to complain, I suppose I deserve it, I somehow feel the pain is the penance.

I completely agree with what AmberHunter said above about never really losing that lust for the ease and tranquility those little pills give you. Life is so smooth. Even while experiencing the pain I'm in now I can't say I'll never take them again. At 33 I sincerely hope not but time has a funny way of making you forget the price you're going to pay and I'm now self aware enough to never assume I can just have a few for fun and forget about them again.

Thanks to all for posting and sharing, has made my day and given me a push. Thanks.

[Pillified]

My wife and I are addicts, Vics and Norcs for three years running, we are on 5-6 a day all in the late afternoon. We stay sober during workhours and party at night. I feel ashamed and deeply saddened that It has come to this. I have a son, he is my soul, I don't want to make my demons a problem for him.
I want to taper off and help my wife who is suffering the addictive personality traits.
Please help.

Adam