what are the best non opiate pain medacations to take for addicts.

i am an addict and have been clean for 13 months , with
help from the folks here at this fourm, and my involvement
with N.A. meetings.
i have  painfull arthritis in both knees, and have rotator
cuff operation on both shoulders, these problems flare up with pain now and then.
right now i am suffering from severe pain in my elbow ,
do to possible tennis elbow, this started last augest.
At that time i got a steroid injection which seemed to deal with the problem, except all the pain came back about 2 months
ago i have had to take off from my union construction painting
job for the last 3 weeks . Hopeing that rest would help, it has not. I have been prescribed celebrex, it has done nothing for the paini have tried motrin , it has been no help.
i go to see the ortho doctor friday morning. i was wondering
if there is any pain medacation i should ask for .
My sister inlaw is a doctor and has told me i should have it put in a cast, , because the doctor is probly going to just give me another injection.
at age 43  it seem i do not heal as well as i used to,
i was thinking of asking for some kind of therapy program to
streng then the arm.
The pain has been very bad in the morning, i cannot even hold a cup of coffee, or the phone.
any suggestions, about a good medacation would be helpfull,
along with any other helpfull ideas.

peace!!!!!!!!hippy

[SarpyJesse]

Hey--

I'd say to you to take Ultram (Being the most effective non-opiate pain reliever) --However, we all know what tramadol turns into in the hands of the likes of us.

Even though it's not suggested, I've had to take mega-doses of ibuprofen before, and it seems to work in those high doses. I'm talking about 1000-1600 milligrams. I know that it is far less toxic than taking tons of tylenol, and the "Prescription" version of Ibuprofen comes in 800 milligram pills- So I can't imagine that doctors would be worried if someone were to take 1600 milligrams in one dose. THAT was the ONLY drug I found (Non-Opiate) that could even touch pain. I've tried big doses of Bextra, and a couple other of the "New" pain relievers mixed with muscle relaxers, and they just don't work for intense pain.

Hope that helps....... And I still don't trust a hippy who's only 40. (they never trusted anyone over 30-- remember?) Just kidding, longhair. I probably had longer hair than you ever did, and I'm only thirtysomething.

Jess

[hippy]

thanks jess,
i have taken ultram , did not abuse it , it worked
a little.
being a hippy is about love, sorta like the good samaritin

peace ! and love  !hippy

[Expillman]

Hippy, Ultram is an opioid and the package insert states that it should not be used in individuals who have had previous opioid dependency.

Have you exhausted therapeutic doses of several NSAID drugs?  

These are drugs like aspirin and ibuprofen and they work surprisingly well, as well as codeine in some cases if they are dosed properly and dosed to effect.  There are many, many alternatives and [don't throw things at me] but I am knowledgeable about this class of drugs.  They do not cause dependency and tolerance does not build up with this class of drugs.  There are even alternatives if you have active peptic ulcer disease.

Let me know.

[Huiler]

What are the "many alternatives" that you refer to (what you said right after saying that Aspirin and Ibuprophen are good)?
Thanks

[hippy]

i have had some small results with aceamtaphine extra strength,
i have had no results with asprin.
i have used ultram and ultracet,  the only thing i found it good for  was withdrawls from vikes and perc's.
i really don't like the way ultram makes me feel.
so i never got hooked on it.
thanks for your input.

peace  hippy

[lisabet]

Hi, my peaceful hippee boy.  Have you ever tried "Aleve" (naproxen)?  You take one every 12 hours.  My girlfriend swears by it; says it's the only thing that helps her back pain. I also remember reading on the DA forum that Judy (Dancin') tried Advil gel-tabs and was surprized how effective they are.  Hope you can find something to help.  Love, Lisabet

[Expillman]

OK, acetaminophen is not a NSAID and can damage your liver in high enough doses.  

I'm talking about a good, round the clock dose of ibuprofen 2400-3200 mg. or equivalent.  Have you ever tried this sort of regimen.  In the cancer clinic we used NSAIDs a lot in conjunction with oral morphine, especially Trilisate (choline magnesium trisalicylate) because it did not affect blood platelet aggregation.

Work with your doctor on this.  Do you have any GI problems?

[Chezz2]

Sorry to hear you are still having pain with your arm. I remember when you went and got the shot last time.
Motrin or ibuprofen has shown not to be therapudic after 800mg x3 a day. I take it constantly for my back pain in conjunction with the narcotics. I also switched it out with naproxen every couple of months to see if helps. It seems to do a little. So it might be a good choice.
My doc and I just talked on Monday about other meds to add to my regimen since I won't go up on the narcotic pain meds, yet my tolerance has gone up and they aren't working as well. He suggested something called Depokote. I am not sure about it. Might be something to look up.
I think Vioxx is another alternative like celebrex.
Sorry, but that is all I can think of in terms of Non-narcotic stuff. You might have to take some vicodin or eq. for a little bit to help on the real bad days.
Don't EVER force yourself to live with pain. It just isn't right.

Expillman - I heard you had a website, I was wondering if you could post it, I wanted to check it out.

Thanks,
Chezz

[AmberHunter]

having chronic pain and exhausting every drug known to man and a few only known to women i have to say my vote is for a good dose of ibuprophen... 800 mg. is motrin, i haven't exceeded that amount myself...

i have a chronic pain condition but i won't bore you with all the details... pain is pain... i am on a SSRI which helps how i perceive the pain, at least i believe it does...

other than that i just don't know... narcotics do have there place but i think i know you better than that the short time i have been here...

peace,

amber

[Chezz2]

Sorry to hear you are still having pain with your arm. I remember when you went and got the shot last time.
Motrin or ibuprofen has shown not to be therapudic after 800mg x3 a day. I take it constantly for my back pain in conjunction with the narcotics. I also switched it out with naproxen every couple of months to see if helps. It seems to do a little. So it might be a good choice.
My doc and I just talked on Monday about other meds to add to my regimen since I won't go up on the narcotic pain meds, yet my tolerance has gone up and they aren't working as well. He suggested something called Depokote. I am not sure about it. Might be something to look up.
I think Vioxx is another alternative like celebrex.
Sorry, but that is all I can think of in terms of Non-narcotic stuff. You might have to take some vicodin or eq. for a little bit to help on the real bad days.
Don't EVER force yourself to live with pain. It just isn't right.

Expillman - I heard you had a website, I was wondering if you could post it, I wanted to check it out.
You also said you were very familiar with NSAIDS, is there any NAMES you can give Hippee so he can tell his doc. NSAIDS is kind of general and coveralls all the drugs I have listed and more. Thanks for your help here. That is what is great about having someone with 20 years medical experience here.

Thanks,
Chezz

[Chezz2]

Hippee,

BTW - The Depokote is the in the same field as Neurontin. It has some pain effective side effects. Just like topamax and another my doc said cost an arm and a leg (which doesn't matter to me cause I don't pay a dime for any meds - otherwise I would have been broke from the $500 every 2 weeks just for the oxycontin!!!).
Anyway, they are anti-seizure meds with pain suppressing qualities.
Just another thought.

I hope you find something Buddy! I hate to hear it when friends are having to deal with pain.
Chezz

[Susie B]

I have some background in Physical Therapy. If you can get your Dr to order therapy (go to a Sports Therapy Center,) you may get some help. You have to walk a fine line between rest and strengthening. Use ice-frequently, to the point of numbness, several times a day. This is probably the wrong place to point out that sometimes a pill is not the best answer :) Good Luck

[Huiler]

Well, even if you guys don't answer me, God bless you all and I'll just keep listening and learning.

[AmberHunter]

depakote, good drug for bipolar disorder but those are the only patients i worked with that took depakote... when i got out of treatment three years ago my Pdoc wanted me to take depakote but there was such a stigma to me about taking it that i would not even try it! lol, now i take seroquel, an antipsychotic for sleep, go figure!!

amber

[Susie B]

It sounds like you're doing well on suboxone. Could you give a little more detail on the experience. I'm trying to talk my husband into trying it, but he's convinced it will be the same as the Methadone adventure he had 23years ago when he detoxed from Heroine :(  :(  :(

[mrmichael67]

Actually, I will save you the time.....www.cosmicstargoat.com.

[vikequeen]

Shhhhhhhhhh!, Listen can you hear that? No one is arguing, unbelievable. Can we keep it that way? I get a lot of good info from this site, mainly I am a reader not a speaker, I get so frustrated when the focus is taken off the original purpose of this forum. Thanks for all smoking the peace pipe and getting back to what we are all here for. Baddgirl

[motox4fun01]

I was wondering if taking 10mgs of methadone for the next couple of days would help me out as I am in day 3 of C/T oxy withdrawls. Or would I be just prolonging the oxy detox or even getting addicted to the methadone in just a couple if days?
James

[Chezz2]

Thanks MrM for the site. I have some serious ?s as to this guy and his miracle detox. I posted on the second thread.

Motox,

I am so sorry to hear you got sucked back in buddy! How much oxy where you taking and for how long?

Chezz

[AmberHunter]

it is sooooooooooooooooo normal to get to a point in w/d to hope that by taking a "smidgen" of a narcotic will help take the edge off... and it will, for a minute... but if at all possible try and hang in there and don't do it... it only helps for a minute, and then you still have to get through the bad part all over again i.e. just delaying the inevitable... i know it is hard, it is, but there is no way "around" it just "through" it...

and goat, cool website, very cool... don't ask me ya'll, i just found it a little too interesting! maybe stopping narcotics isn't  that good of an idea??

peace,

amber

[motox4fun01]

Only taking about 40 and sometimes 80mg a day (IV though)for about a month now.
Seriously Chezz, don't get pillman started again Please .
Thanks for your concern :)
James

[MethMan]

Hey, I think they did answer you (if I am not mistaken).  You were asking for alternatives to opiates?  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

MoTox,
I don't believe you could get hooked on methadone if used for a week only.  Matter of fact, if oxy detox is hammering you, a SMALL dose of methadone may be just what the doctor ordered (So to speak) as it has a long halflife. Just be careful and don't extend your stay at Club Methadone any longer than necessary.  The bastards at the front desk take FOREVER to let you go.

Peace,
Methman

[motox4fun01]

Is methadone completely cross addictive to oxy ?

[Chezz2]

James,

I posted to you about the pillman thing below. Thanks for the reminder. We have had enough. My bad...

As to the cross addictive thing, Michael will know. I don't think it is.

I have no idea how you take oxycontin IV. But I would assume that a little methadone like you stated 10mg, for a few days would be "just what the Dr. ordered", like Mike said.

It would be just like a little taper before the big bang. I think it would work great and save you a little pain.
The best thing that has ever worked for me was valium. I have always gotten meds for my back from my doc, but have never asked for help when I stopped when the pain went away. After I found this site, I asked my doc for some valium to help detox because I just wanted a week free of the pain meds. He gave me some and I quit the percs CT (12aday what he Rxed) and I had NO PROBLEMS at all stopping. I thought it was a miracle. I had no problems with it. It was unreal. When I stop again when my back gets better, or after surgery, I will not do it without Valium, it made it sooooooooo easy and comfortable, it was unbelievable. I never thought there was anything that you were supposed to take when you stopped, I was naive, I just stopped and dealt with the withdrawal pains and was happy my back didn't hurt anymore.
Enough with my book. I suggest the Methadone for a couple days and Valium if you can get it. If you need help ordering some email me. (***@****)

I hope for an easy detox for you buddy, sorry to hear you have to go through it again,

Chezz

[Expillman]

"Thanks MrM for the site. I have some serious ?s as to this guy and his miracle detox."

Ask away.  There was no miracle.  I went CT and suffered from serious withdrawal symptoms.  Do you want all the GORY details?  I feel better now, what is the issue?

Could it be that this is the very first time that I have ever had a problem with a drug and was not abusing be a factor?

You guys tell me, I've never been through it several times and never will.  I repeat, I will never give those days back, they were much too painful.

[MethMan]

Jack,
I ran outta room to respond to your post on the other thread.  Hopefully, you'll check this one.
On June 3rd, you said that you were going into "treatment tomorrow".  That would mean you went today, right?  What kind of treatment are you receiving?  100mgs of Oxy and off cold turkey is quite a hit to take.  Is the doc gonna give you anything other than Lorazepam?
You said you had 40 hours in, about 10 hours ago.  Bud, expect to feel pretty crappy for about the first week.  So basically, you're half way there now.  If you begin to feel weak and your resolve is diminishing, remember what you already went through and ask yourself, "Wanna do it again?".
It does get better, I promise.  It's a tough road you're on, but VERY DOABLE!  Just stay focused.
Say.... how was your walk?  Did you feel better at the beginning of it or the end?  End, right?  Remember... even though it is a ***** to move, you have to.
One note of concern:  Is your doc monitoring your blood pressure?  Make sure you get it checked.  They can give you stuff like Clonidine to help with that.  Plus, Clonidine will help you with that "Stinging, Electric Skin Feelin'".
Stay strong and make sure you get the doc all the info he or she needs to help you make it through this.
It ain't far to go.  You've already done the hard part.

Peace,
Methman

[Expillman]

Thanks, Amber.  Did you visit the news section?  There are a lot of thing embedded in there.  Visit any time.

regards,

EXp

[mrmichael67]

You crush it up into powder, cook it in a spoon with water, and draw it up into a syringe.....just like heroin.  People shoot oxys all the time.  Just like shooting dope, so I hear.  I have honestly never stuck myself with a needle, though.  So, that is not from experience.

[Chezz2]

Expillman,

I am a chronic pain patient and the first time I detoxed cold turkey it was from 8 percocets(5mg)a day, and for a week I thought I was going to die, the second week I started to feel better but still felt like ****. Not enough to even be posting at all the 1st week, and maybe a little the second week if I knew this place even existed.

You detoxed off the equivelant of 50-60 percocets a day and you were posting so much you closed just about every thread. And even had fun posting under two different suedos.

I would rather just drop this though. I don't care either way. I am sure you suffered, and just didn't post about it.
Lets just drop it. Everybody is different.
My bad...

Chezz

[Chezz2]

WOW MrM. I never knew people did that. I would pass out, even touching a needle. I almost pass out everytime I give blood, I can't even look or I will!
I guess people will always find a way for something new.
Thanks for the info, I usually learn something new from you or here everyday!

Chezz

Like Peaz said before (I think it was her). Some people get addicted to just using the needle. I remember someone saying that.

[Expillman]

I was not offended, I know what I went through and it was no fun.  I'm a big guy, 6/5 and 295 before withdrawal and about 272 after.  I do know that I became tolerant to the stuff very fast and it took a lot more to work for me.  

Whatever the reason, I was so glad to be through the first 3 days I went wild with my writing as it is therapy for me.  It makes me forget a lot of things and I'm sure that there are those in here who wished I had some other sort of therapy.  Also, I can type a bunch of wpm.

[mrmichael67]

I know someone who is on mmt who picked up heroin again.  She was on a big dose of methadone and couldn't feel the heroin, but kept on doing it anyway.  She was addicted to just the act of shooting up.  So, that is very true for some people.  Some people get all jazzed up just from the act of copping dope or a script.

[Alabamajenn]

just a thought, have you tried RX anti-inflammatories? Fenoprofen, scrip strength ibuprofen, etc... I hear you about theUltram. ya know tho, when I was way younger (when the drug first appeared) I took so many at once for a couple months that I eventually developed an allergy to it. I'd get totally covered in a red itchy rash-ish tight skin thing and it'd keep me up for several days.  I always thought it was purposefully designed that way. I dunno tho.

[skipper]

hey hippee:
so sorry to hear about your arm pain...i've probably said it enough, but being an addict i never really gave any thought to what i would do if i ever really needed all the dope i shot into myself for *fun*
well i think about it a lot now!! not even hell can stop a hell bound train!

be real careful if you plan on really increaseing the dose of motin or any of the other n-saids. whenever i've tried it, all that ever comes of it is a really "hot" tummy.

for what it's worth, you will be in my prayers. i'm sure there is a way through all of this for everyone.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[freezing]

Man, I have been out of touch for a couple weeks due to SUBOXONE success.  I cannot believe what happened to your thread.  Apologies.

I cannot believe the success you have had.  Slow down!!  If you make yourself suffer too much, you will have a higher risk of relapse (although, you are obviously very determined and more successful than most).  Better yet, why suffer so bad?  Stay on 2mg of subox and detox over a few months.

I was on 20mg and in the past month cut to 8mg/day without even trying.  I just have found I don't need as much.  I am going to try four, instead of eight, tomorrow, and see if it holds me.

IMO, don't cut too fast, as you already have.  You'll be off soon enough.  You've done great.  Well wishes.  

[Chezz2]

Hippee,

I second that what Skipper said, like I said earlier.

An "Extra" dose of 800mg of Motrin or Naproxen, or any other NSAID, it can **** your stomach lining up QUICK.
I would rather risk taking a low dose of Vicodin and just make sure you watch yourself closely with it.
Like I said before, NOBODY should have to live in pain just because they have addiction issues. You can take pain meds again, it just takes a little more responsibility when you have to again.

Also, keep in mind, dealing with pain and not treating it can lead to other problems by putting your body through the extra "Stress". My doc taught me that one. He said he has seen people just "deal" with pain instead of treating it and ending up having more health problems arise.
Just something to keep in mind.

I hope you treat your pain, responsibly, whatever way you choose.
Regards,
Chezz

[oxic]

Hippee, I've had success with Toradol(10mgs).......for my achy back(2 surgeries) and a nagging shoulder injury.
Initially, i thought the stuff was garbage, but after about 4-5 days, it started working.  You know not to stay on it too long.

There is one other drug, and please don't fall off your chair when i say Nandralone Deconate(Deca Durabolin)......yes a steroid.

Bodymechanic mentioned these also way back.  I did only two shots(200mgs/shot in the glute), and i am not kidding.....haven't had a sore shoulder since.  That was several months ago.  It is one of the most widely used steroids in America.  Other than the anabolic effects, the drug loads more water in the connective tissue.........
Just a thought.......


percs

[mrmichael67]

Go to google and put "cosmicstargoat" in there and you will find the site.

[Jerri2]

This goat guy is satanic and that is all I have to say!That website is sick.Do not let yourself get wrapped up in argueing with the master of deceit cause hes on the goats side and it will not help on your road to recovery!!He is not going to help you cause he wants you to stay addicted to whatever you are addicted to!!!   Jerri

[bmac]

Hey don't be scared of a little ole satan dude! My God is so much more powerful than that little piece of **** we call 'the devil'. Yes the website is ridiculas, but hey fits, right?
People like that are just screaming for help anyway.
One thing to remember Jerri, if someone believes in satan it means they really believe in God. You would have too.
You are right about it sucking you up into that ****. That's what it is all about, lies and deceipt. But never fear, just tell those stupid idiots to go back where they came and in HIS name and you will see them running as fast as they can. KENITES!!!! whew...........
I am shakin'!!!!!!!!!! Remember we have already won that victory!         Peace to ya Jerri2, Bmac

BTW about Goatbro! I am not trying to get him started. This is to all aethist/satanist(samething)and Im 6'2" and about 250 so I wasn't shaken by the description. But nice try brother!

[Jerri2]

Amen Brother!!!I was just saying he feeds off of all the bickering!But I also know that we are stronger than it!!I got kicked off for talking about the Lord here once so enough said!!satan be gone!!! Love and Hugs to you bmac!  Jerri

[bmac]

Hey don't wory about it. Getting kicked off a public forum for talking about God isn't new. But I don't think you will have another problem now. If some people can talk about their higher power so can I. I have a right to voice my opinion anywhere I like as long as I am not breaking any laws(give the libs alittle more time and we will lose this right too). Jerri, He does have the power and He gave it to us too. But you already knew that!
Peace to you friend! May '***' be with us!  Bmac

[Expillman]

To Jerri-You call me Satanic.  This is incorrect.  Satan is a christian god, a hsllucination invented in the minds of primitive men to try to explain evil in the world.   FYI, Atheists do not believe in ANY supernatural beings.  Satan is your god, not mine.  Please deal with it.

To Bill-  You say that you are not trying to start anything.  Then you proceed to try to start something.   You repeatedly call me ugly names.  Why is this?   Have you not stated several times that we are now "buds"?  Remember, according to the myth, your god created an "imperfect" Lucifer, KNOWING full well that he would rebel, then tossed him out of heaven, created a HELL for him to live in and then let him out to TORTURE and TAUNT HUMANS?

And you call ME sick?   Interesting........

[Expillman]

This is the mother lode of controversy and emotion.  I will just say this about fundamentalists of any flavor, and especially christians.  They are so, so sure that their way is the only way, the true way, the chosen way that they plunge headlong in their ferver and will try to run over everything in their path.

Please consider that not everyone shares your views.  There are atheists, there are Jews, there are Muslims and there are people of OTHER religious persuasions that just do not share, subscribe to or embrace your views.

Ask yourself, "Am I tolerant of the religious or non religious views of others"?  -or- Is it MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY?

I am quite a student of religion, especially christianity.  I am also an atheist.  Please respect my views.

[momonhydros]

good morning, ask your doc if you can try vioxx instead of the celebrex, celebrex didnt do **** for me either but i had excellent results with the vioxx. good luck love nancy

[suzieneedshelp]

Hey sweet man!  ASk your Doc about one of the antiseizure drugs like mentioned above.  They are preventative of pain.  They work on pain relief in 2 ways.  Decrease the actual pain message from going from the origination site and decrease the brains perception of the pain.  That is wut i have been told.  
Love,
Suzie

[Expillman]

I apologize again for taking up space, but here goes. I have perused the entire message base for messages entered on 6-5, these are current messages.

Ever since our "truce" one member has entered at least 10 messages trying to stir up the pot again.  This forum "pit bull" apparently has no intentions of honoring the "truce".  To my knowledge, there is only one other individual with only one message entered.  

As the ad hominems continue, I sit tight to observe what position the other participants will take.  If there is a level playing field, I will simply ignore and there will be no problem here.  If there is a multiple-tiered standared for posters based on religious views, success in detox, physical dependence vs. addiction, etc., I will adjust my posture accordingly.

regards,
Expillman

[suzieneedshelp]

This is a board about substance abuse.. to help / support/ answer questions, etc in those regards.  I am trying my best to work on tolerance and acceptance of myself and others.  This is part of my recovery program.  No matter wut religion or lack of religion, can we try to keep it off this board and get back to our purpose here plz?  I try to remember, there may be one here for the very first time seeking info on addiction as i came last September.  I was in such distress and all this extraneous stuff may have put me off and i may be dead now instead of in recovery!  I am not being melodrammatic...truley.
I apologise for my non relevant/ non purposeful posts in the past as well.
Peace and love to all of you who seek to come here to help or be helped.
Suzie

[mrmichael67]

I am very cautious when it comes to the use of nsaids.  I have had my stomach ripped up from them.  Believe me, during my time with my back problems, I have ingested plenty.  This is a good article on the issue of nsaids:  http://www.healthsentinel.com/NSAIDs/

As you can see, nsaids can actually be detrimental to your health with chronic use.  And, that is quite an understatement.  I usually don't write about them because they usually aren't discussed here.  I have seen countless people complain of stomach problems from using the nsaid of their choice.  One thing, vioxx and celebrex are supposed to be better on the stomach.

[hippy]

thank you , to everyone for you caring input,
i will see the doc tommorow.
i'll probly just settle for the steroid injection and hope for the best.

peace!!!!!!!!!hippy

[Kurt Cobain]

All right. . .I had hoped to avoid this subject as long as possible, but here goes.  The following statements reflect only MY personal beliefs, experiences, and feelings -- they are not presented as "right" or "the Only Way" or anything else intended to "pump me up" and put down the feelings/beliefs of others.

1.  I believe in God.  Too many things have happened to me that have been entirely inexplicable via "rational" or "natural" means for me to believe otherwise.  If not the "God" who is a White Male who looks surprisingly like Charlton Heston, then *some* Force that is interested in the well-being of us inferior beings -- and is Him/Her/Itself (because I don't see how a Being or Force as vast as this can "be" male or female) *bound by certain laws that cannot be broken -- even by God*.  One of the most primary of these is our right to FREE WILL.  Obviously, this is REGARDLESS what we choose to do with it -- whether it is worship "God", go to "a church", help our "neighbor", or "beat the **** out of old ladies and take all their money".  The God/Force that I believe in certainly does not LIKE us to do these things and would STOP us if He/She/They were able to do so. . .but I think that the Universe was set up this way specifically for minimum "outside influence" on the outcome of our actions. . .whatever path they may take.

2.  I believe in God's Opposite.  AKA Satan, Lucifer, the Devil, the Very Bad Man, or any other analog in any other culture's teachings.  Again, there is too much evidence to the contrary for me to disbelieve.  Actually, I think that, these days, Satan/Baddie or whomever as well as their Legions must be really, amazingly ******* BORED since we humans seem to be doing most of their job ON EACH OTHER with AMAZINGLY little need for any "influence from the Dark Side."  I imagine sweeping cutbacks, demons cleaning out their desks, bitching about being "downsized" and making veiled threats about going to work for the Competition down the line.  But seriously. . .we humans do tool up on each other with such clocklike regularity that the Powers of Darkness must have to do very little to set the whole thing in motion. . .and, for the record, I think that drugs are one of their absolute favorite things.  At best, they help to inspire evil things, like theft, deception, lies, and the breaking of bonds between people who love one another.  At the very least, they render the user ineffectual, unable and unwilling to do anything good for anyone else.  It takes them out of the game, so to speak.

As far as the rest of it goes. . .yes, I am oriented towards Christianity.  And, yes, "fundamentalist Christians" who profess that theirs is "the only way" and you are "going to Hell" if you don't believe exactly as they do **** ME THE **** OFF.  Excuse the outburst, but honestly. . .I don't think there's been ANY OTHER SINGLE GROUP of people, including, but not limited to: Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Satan Worshippers, even Jehovah's Witnesses -- who have turned as MANY people as BITTERLY AWAY from Christianity as have rabid, foam-at-the-mouth, bullying "Christian" fundamentalists.  Without exception, everyone I have ever met who has been what I would call "anti-Christian" has, at one time (or several) in their lives been set upon by one or more of these. . ."soldiers for God."  Satan must be LAUGHING HIS FIERY ASS OFF at the irony.

Well, that said, let me just help out those of you who may feel inclined to tell me about myself.  As a time-saver, I will list some of the more popular responses I expect to get from this tirade:

1.  You're goin' to Hell, boy.
2.  You can't be a "real" Christian.
3.  You obviously don't know The Bible.
4.  You're just stupid.
5.  Um. . .you're goin' to HELL, boy, you know that, don't you?

To all of which I will reply. . .whatever, dude.  Unlike many of those I meet, I will at least RESPECT you AND your opinions and beliefs enough to let you have them without trying to make you feel bad.  The God I believe in is big enough not to be damaged by something like the Church of the Cosmic Star Goat, or anything else that may come down the pike. . .in fact (and as final proof that yes, I will Burn Eternally in the Fires of Perdition), I think God actually finds **** like that amazingly funny.  Honestly. . .how could you run a Universe like THIS one without having a sense of humor?

Okay, I'm done. . .as usual, sorry for having offended anyone. . .but NOT for what I believe.  And no, I will NOT engage in pointless debate or defense of the things said here.  As they are MY OWN beliefs, I don't need to "prove" them to myself. . .and I respect all of you too much to try to force them upon you like an attorney arguing a case.

Peace,

Kurt

[silvery]

Tomorrow I will be on day 4 of a tapering method I'm using based on my supply. I have some 10mg oxycodon and some hydrocodone...each day I cut back by 10-20mg - I know its a fast taper but its the right time of the year for me to do this. I was clear of addiction to pain medications but then had a minor surgery and doc put me back on meds and I slowly started to take more and more each day to relieve the pain. I realized that I was 'abusing' and now I remember what withdrawal was like before and I want to ask what is your opinion of tapering? Am I pronlonging the withdrawal symptoms? It sucks to be at work all day feeling like I have the flu but I am managing. I think I don't use as much as most people here seem to so I hope my time in this hell will pass quickly. Before tapering, I was doing about 80mg - 100mg a day for approx a month. Today I took 30mg, tomorrow I will take my last 20mg then cross my fingers. By the way should I try some valium to deal with the anxiety? I am afraid of getting addicted to them as I have been using them in the past in large recreational doses (40mg at a time).

silver y

[FLaddict]

You posted on a really old thread from 2003 This post will get lost in the mix of new posts from today. I highly recommend starting a new post. Scroll down to "back to forum" click there then click "post a question" on the main page. that way current members can give you advice.

I would stay away from the valium if you have abused them in the past. Can you take a few days off to just go cold turkey??  Since you were only back on for a month you are more than likely prolonging the withdrawals by tapering now. I am a advocate of tapering but i think in your case you should just get it over with.

[MTintraining]

Have you ever considered Massage Therapy? I am a student practitioner, and have several clients who I treat for pain management. I treat someone with serious arthritis who has relied on the steroid shots in the past, and another who has had recent damage to the nerves at her elbow, compounded by a sprained wrist, who is allergic to steroids. Both showed marked improvement after the first session, and continue to improve. Seeing how you'd like to steer away from medications, this might be the route for you. There are several kinds to choose from. If you're uncomfortable taking your clothes off, a good therapist will work with you however you need. At least check it out on the Net, O.K?

[TimHav]

  I went thru withdrawal from about 83 MG a day of OXY to include oxyfast concentrated solution, and then my doc put me on 20 MG kadian 2x a day with all the other stuff. Because of the Kadian, I would forget I took my meds and consequently took them again, then again. After a fire at my house almost dying but dog waking me up, stress and HI-POWER morphin just hit me hard. After about 4-5 days of this, I realized what I was doing and went off all of it. I decided no more narcotics, EVER again!!!!  It was 4 days of hell followed by about 4-6 days of feeling blah. I was over the W/D's.  Everybody, friends and family tell me I am the "old" me, happy, talkative and a social butterfly making people laugh.  I have to say tho, it was SO worth it becuase it reenforces my decision to not ever go "back" there!
I am now seeing a Physcotherapy/pain center,  trying thier approach for pain relief. So far, it is starting to work and I decided to give it a year. I am in constant pain but I can tuff that out. Cosidering the past, it's going to be a pleasant future. I've quit smoking, don't drink hardly at all and, just happy with who I am now. Still grieving the loss of my wife at the ripe old age of 44 and dealing with insurance for losses but, that's another 2 stories I won't bore you with.  I WILL however say, support cancer research.
As for the other posts, I believe everyone has thier own opinions and are entitled to them. Long live our right to believe in anything we want.

    Sincedrely, Timhav

[jlh2011]

Hi, I have chronic pain & have been addicted 2 norco & vicoden. My Dr. (who is a substance abuse Dr.) said that he recommends neurontin. I have found it to work 4 me. I have also found elavil 2 work, but it is also an anti-depressant (meaning a pain reliever & anti-depressant). Idk how much of an anti-depressant it is tho. I would talk 2 ur Dr about that. I have tried ultram, celebrex & naproxen and none of those have worked 4 me. Hope this works 4 u!

[SunnieSandie]

I shy away from drugs like toradol and tramadol too..ibu works ..a word of caution...NSAIDS if taken too frequently can cause internal bleeding.

My daughter has two bad wisdom teeth and is having trouble getting them out..she's been living on NSAIDS for the pain..

I've tried to warn her to ease up but her pain won out..and she texted me yesterday morning in terrible lower abdominal pain and bleeding clots rectally..

SO..please be careful. We all think " it wont happen to me cause I got this " ...

[rah2012]

DO NOT TAKE TRAMADOL which is generic for ULTRAM they say it not a narcotic or a opined BUT it is extremely addictive no matter what your doctor may tell you. I started taking Tramadol for minor pain here and there the results were wonderful it took away my pain and along with that gave me energy and that feel good feeling which I loved I began taking it for whatever pain I was having ( cramps leg surgery , back pain ect and before I knew it I was addicted I loved how it made me feel it seemed liked the perfect pill! And plus I was told not to worry about it because it wasn't addictive or dangerous so it was great well needless to say it was the beginning of a very long nightmare for me . I tried to stop them and in the beginning I was able to without withdrawal systems but I missed the feeling they gave me so it became a vicious circle a long story short I began increasing my dose and was up to taking over 20 50 mg pills a day for a few years because I needed to keep increasing in order to get the same effect I ended up in a rehab for 9 days was weaned off and because of insurance reasons was released it only took 2 weeks to be back where I started the craving for them was so overpowering I was unable to think of anything else I felt like a real junkie needing my fix I was ashamed of myself I couldn't believe I had gotten myself into a situation like this I'm a 52 yr old mother of 2 adult sons happily married had everything I could want how did this happen to me it only happens to real drug addicts but I had to face up and admit to everyone and myself that I to am an addict. I couldn't stand this live I was living keeping it all a secret every time I would relasp ao I decided to stop again and this time hopefully this is it I found a physitactrist who sepeialises in Suboxone treatment for opined addicts and I've been off of them for three months now I feel absolutely wonderful I've gotten my life back I have no cravings at all or thoughts of them this treatment has been a miracle for me it's the only thing that has ever worked to keep me drug free . Please don't ever take the tramadol especially if you have a tendency for abusing drugs it's not worth it in anyway I mean it and it doesn't take long to get ahold of you and before you realize it your addicted to it and your nightmare will begin find something else for your pain Goodluck