where do we go for support.?

[hippy]

as addicts we do not do well alone, we seem to need to surrender
to the fact that we need people in our lives who are a support
to us,some of us do group  sessions, some go to aa because it is
there and there is a lot of addicts there and they have the 12 steps. some of us see a shrink, but any really ethical shrink would steer an addict twards a recovery orenented group.
This fourm is a start, and is a taste of what it is like
inter acting with other addicts.
i go to narcotics anonymous, i try to be who i am. im an addict.
there is a famous saying , " I STARTED GOING TO MEETINGS TO
SAVE MY ASS AND FOUND OUT THAT IT WAS ATTACHED TO MY SOUL..".

speaking about recovery,when i got clean, i prayed for my three favorte people me myself and i, and not much happenedtho i stayed clean, life was a drag, then one day i started praying for other people and my life and recovery took off like a rocket.
it was the most amazing thing.
so where do you go, and what do you do for support.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bmac]

I rely on Jesus Christ for my strength and I ask God to take control of my life since I have tried too many times to do it my way and failed,miserably.I understand we aren't suppose to talk about religion but this is far more tham man's 'manmade' garbage.
I have faith that God is real and is our maker and the Bible is His word,a letter to us.This is where I get my support and healing.Thanks Hippy for asking.Without you this forum wouldn't survive.Peace to ya!!
                             Bill

[Allburnedout]

Thanks for the post. On day 6 and it's getting better. I think, I, like most addicts did not realize how sick I really was. The cravings come and go, but yesterday I went from 2:00 until this morning before I had any cravings. I hate the obsesive / compulsive phase of recovery.

I started taking 20mg of prozac about a month before I stopped using and then boosted it to 40mg the week before. It's leveled off the moods and has really helped with the depression.

Talk to you soon.

[skillet]

I agree with you that Jesus has to be our "higher power".  I am a Christian who struggles with prescription drug addiction and it has been hell.  On one hand, I didn't see how much this had taken over my life, on the other I still sometimes don't want to admit that it has.  I know deep down that something drives me to ease the pain with meds, and that God alone should be the one to heal that pain and remove the void.  I feel so guilty sometimes because as a Christian, I don't want to / shouldn't be struggling with such demons....but I am broken.  In any event, I admit that I am totally powerless to this and cannot do it alone.  If we try to rely on our own strength, we will fail.   God, please help me get past myself.  God helps those who can't help themselves.

[Bodymechanic]

I know that you are a great supporter of 12 step group and there is nothing wrong with that.  Since you are suggesting it to others as a method of staying clean I think they need the whole story.

First of all, if you follow the statistics, 12 step groups have as a whole has one of the worst success rates of any form disease treatment. As an example, suppose you had some kind of fatal disease.  Your doctor tells you that that the only form of treatment available is to go into a smokey room and talk about your disease. Do you think that most people would find this an acceptable choice or would you go else were for treatment.

Second, you say that any ethical psychatrist should send an addict to a 12 step group.  I could not disagree more. The more we learn about addiction, the more it is becoming obvious that the source is a biochemical disorder of the brain.  As an example, there is a treatment available in Europe called ibogaine therapy. The entire process takes about four days. Following the treatment, the majority of patients stay clean for more than 5 years. The cure rate is much higher than any 12 step group could hope to attain. It is a biochemical treatment for a biochemical disorder. The real tragity is that biochemical research for addiction is not being done.

Third, the concept of powerlessness is inherently flawed. The fact remains that even the most hard core addicts get clean without treatment or 12 step groups between the ages of 35-45 yrs. They do not rehabilitate, they simply burn out when the pain exceeds the pleasure of using the drug. Another example, during the Viet Nam war drug addiction while in Viet Nam was staggering. There was a tremendous fear that after the war the US would be flooded with large numbers of young drug addict solders.  This never happened.  The vast majority over 90% stopped completely after coming home. So much for the powerless theory.

Fourth, I believe it is one of the worst violations of civil liberties when the courts can sentence a drug offender to a 12 step group.  This violates the principles of the consitution. Not to mention the fact that it does not work.

I could go on with this but I think most people get the point. This is nothing personal against anyone who has been helped from 12 step groups. Nevertheless, since a essencial principle of 12 step groups is honesty, I think the whole truth should be known.

Peace

[LizzyM]

Hey Everyone..  I'm still hanging in there.  Day 15 for me and it is still a struggle.  Like someone said here, I just really got burnt out of the Hydro's and wanted my energetic life back.  Just got a letter from my older sister...she can't stop crying.  She had hip surgery (she's only 41) and the doc put her on Vicadin.  I told her the Vic's is what is making her cry so much.  She can't sleep, hallucinates..etc..does this sound familiar??  I offered to fly her from FLA to here in Phx so that we can be blue together and get through this.  I KNOW exactly how she is feeling..alone, isolated, confused, depressed, and just wanting to get away.  I have felt the need to get away, but I would miss my kids too much and that would make it worse for me..so I thought, if my sis comes here we can support eachother.  I slept great last night.  THe doc put me on Ambien 10 mgs for short term and I feel so much better. Still have a very sore back and shoulders..I have never had a back prob so I assume this is part of the recovery..still get headaches and still not eating regularly.  I can't wait to feel good again.  Good luck to all!

[LizzyM]

Hey..I just wanted to let you know that Soma can be very difficult to come off of and you have to be very careful.  When I was in detox, a young women who was on Soma for a year stopped cold turkey and went into seizures and found herself in the Emergency room not knowing where she was or what she was doing there.  I don't want to scare you..just want you to take precaution.  The best thing to do is tell your Doc to help you get off them.  I know you don't want to tell him, but I'm sure he would understand more than you think.  If that is not an option, got to an Urgent Care, pay out of pocket if you are trying to keep this low key and not let family members find out OR find another DOc to help you that your family does not have contact with.  Please be careful.  These docs can put you on a anti seizure med to help you come off the Soma.  I'll be thinking about ya..good luck

[Jessica5683]

Hi everyone,
For support I come here to this place. As I have said in past posts my addiction is very much hush hush and no one but the people here know about it and my therapist. Well, my best friend knows about it but she herself is an addict and has NO desire to quit. I have thought about going to NA but have heard so many different things about it. Like one thing and hoenstly I don't know if its true or not but you are NOT aloud to be in NA while using is that true??? I also look to God for help but what I'm learning with that I have to take steps to help myself and can't just lay it all on him to do it for me. I want to quit and yest the little monster inside doesnt want to quit. It's so frustrating and so hard. Personally I'm to the point where I get pissed everytime I throw pills in my mouth. I have 8 pills left and I'm going to once again quit cold turkey. I don't want to be on pills suring the Holidays coming up I JUST DON'T  Anyway, thanks for reading Love to all Jessica

[Allburnedout]

You are not alone. I, too, was in your same situation 7 days ago. I've been addicted to opiates for 2 years (20+ pills per day). My life was out of control. I stopped cold turkey and it's not easy, but it can be done.

Personally, I beleive in a higher power. You will read different posts from various users. You have to find what works for you. As long as you have a desire to stop using, you can attend any 12 step program, whether you are using or not. I can tell you that I don't think I would still be clean if it were not for the 12 step program I'm in. It's only by the Grace of God, in my opinion.

This forum will really help you if you allow it.

Good luck.

[percsnomas]

With the premise that addiction is a biochemical disorder, WHICH I AGREE WITH, and as you've stated, that the real tragedy is that biochemical research for addiction is not being done....I repeat Hippees' Question/Post: "Where do we go for support?"

I read his post as, simply getting out of the isolation that substance abuse brings about. Hippee iterates that we need people in our lives for support...yes he frequents NA meetings, but he is not saying that is the only way to recover.

I have been off percocet for almost 3 months, after a pretty healthy 4 year habit, and not once have I attended a meeting...other than on this forum; but I definately feel by bringing others in on my secret/drug use, my chances of staying in recovery are improved. Hell just talking about it made me feel a lit'l better

Again given the glum statistics that 12 step programs afford, and the fact that biochemical research is not being done; if I'm reading this thread because I'm a substance abuser, I'd then be asking "What the Hell do I do Now?"

[The Golden Slipper]

I just read the above post from Lizzy and wanted to say I have heard the same thing about Soma.  When my sister had trouble coming off them her doctor told her that at high doses there is a danger of a seizure.

Please think about talking to a doctor who can help you.  I am currently tapering off of a barbituate which also has the danger of seizures.  It is very scary and not an easy thing to do.  I found that when I fessed up to 1 of my doctors (I have many all of whom were prescribing the pills to me) but this one doctor was not at all surprised when I told him.

Please keep in touch with us

Golden Slipper

[Bodymechanic]

It is not true that you have to be clean to go to NA. If that were the case almost no-one would be there. In some groups, not all they will ask you to listen rather than speak.  Which is probably a good idea.

Peace

[hippy]

when ever i use abuse drugs i am killing myself.
when i continued down this path my head always
told me the same thing kill your self.
it has been my experence that i do not do well alone.
  
i do not relish the idea, but i would rather  be on a corner
handing out bible's than have a another 20 perc 's a day
habit.
the point being beggers can't be choosy.

and i have been to the point of begging for the nightmare
to end, just to watch it continue for another year.

every place a person gets help,is a good place
every place a person gets support is a good place
where  ever we find peace from the nightmare of addiction
it s better than where we come from.

[suzieneedshelp]

Why only one new question today?  I wanted to  to post a congratulations to Jessearpy who is goin this evening to his rehab center to get his one year alcohol free medalion tomorrow!
Thought that would be a really positive post and he certainly deserves congrats!  He has brought so much to this board. He has a truley generous heart.
Well if it is possible to post it please do!
Ty,
Suzie

[GOD]

Hey there, Suz-e!

Thanks for the nice comments, but we really don't need to start a whole new thread about anyone's sobriety. How many YEARS someone has being sober from Drugs or Alcohol doesn't mean a thing to me. I admire the people who have just gotten off drugs and/or  alcohol, and they are on their 4th or 5th day! That was the absolute HARDEST time for me. I'm proud of myself that I have not taken a drink in ONE YEAR-- However, please realize that it was MY DRINKING that gave me the nerve damage that makes it neccessary for me to take Ultram almost *Daily*.

Keep it goin' people!
~~~~Jess~~~~

[suzieneedshelp]

"Many a friendship long, loyal and sacrificial began on a kind word."
author unknown
Suzie

[Bodymechanic]

One could get the impression that I am down on 12 step groups. With the exception of government forced attendance I am NOT. The principles of 12 step groups are an excellent guide to live by even if you have never picked up a drink or a drug in your life. I think if everyone went, the world would be a much better place. My mission is that the whole truth about AA/NA be told.  The truth is that 12 step programs without proper medical attention does not work. When that is accepted by those in power, maybe they will spend more of our tax dollars on looking for a better solution. I don't know if it will ever be accepted since the evidence could not be clearer.

For now I have stopped going to 12 step meetings. I still stay in touch with my sponsor.  My brother has been a drug councellor for 30 years.   What is important and my brother agrees, without the proper biochemical intervention staying clean is like shoveling **** against the tide. I have been to a lot of meetings.  Many, many members although clean, are just as miserable as they were 20 years ago minus the problems caused by drugs and alcohol. Their circumstances are better, no question about it. But deep inside themselves there is depression and an emptiness that just does not go away with time.
  
My research leads me to believe that there are medications already in use which may greatly help the addict. Some of the parkinson's disease drugs and "smart drugs" which work on the dopamine system rather than the serotonin system seem very promising. The addict has low dopamine levels and NOT low serotonin levels.  That is why the standard, expensive antidepressants don't work on so many addicts. It is also the reason why the Thomas recipt seems to help withdrawal. It enhances dopamine productions. Current therapies work on the serotonin system but a very negative side effect is to make dopamine levels even lower. This information is not hard to get. Don't these damn doctors read. Also, bupenorphine alone or possibly combined with other medication may bring a miracle to so many. From what I understand the plan is to make bupenorphine therapy every bit as demoralizing as the methadone program.

My best wishes to everyone, however you choose path to a better life.

Peace


My plan is to do my own research, order the medications over the internet and try some combinations till I find one that works. When that is done, then I will go back to 12 step groups.  Truth be known I like going.  I get more out of a 12 step meeting than I do most church services.

Peace

[percsnomas]

Bodymechanic: It also amazes me that the biochemical work lags sooooo dramatically!!!
When you finish compiling your "research", please share it....I'd love to read it.(in the interum, i'll continue mine as well)
Take  Care!!!

Bmac: I posted back to you yesterday; maybe you missed it.
Hey you probably could give METHMAN(below) some insight into w/d from meth.

[percsnomas]

....under Day 30..........Open Forum

[bmac]

Thanks,I almost didn't see it.
                   bmac

[puma]

Hello all,

I have attended hundreds of boring 12-step meetings over the years, mostly people there are court ordered even the long timers. As a matter of fact I was the only one never court ordered.

I sat and listened to them whine about who cut them off in traffic and pissed them off so badly for 15 minutes or more. Another would babble about how 95 percent of us there are going to die of alcoholism everytime she spoke. I got sick of that **** will quick. The next babbled about how violent she gets every time she drank, and turned that into almost a challenge to men there, she is admitted Lesbian. Many of the folks there are (either, or). When I tried to make a comment one day on the 12 steps the lead Les, who claimed sobriety for three years but you could smell her a mile away, actually challenged me afterwards saying how boring my statement was. I told her she was always boring and useless. We almost had a fist fight. I don't fight though unless it is to kill. She backed down and then said she loved me. I almost gagged. Not that it is an issue, but they do see things in a different light. (My sponsor) always asked to borrow money when she saw me, since she was on welfare. Most there were athiests. I just could not stand the place any longer. It simply was a place to get out of the house and away from any bar,etc. It kept one busy in the evenings when people usually chose to drink, use or whatever. I drink anytime night or day when I relapse. I started this morning at 6:00 am. I have to quit c/t tomorrow. That will really suck,suck,suck.

The male leader died recently of AIDS and when I offered service to cut the grass since he was sick at the time,  the Les, told me the mower was borrowed. The person that borrowed it was on vacation. I said ,how convenient. I have not returned since.

That is our **** poor N.A./ A.A. here.

It is useless unless you are just simply so lonely by yourself or bored to death.

(Bodymechanic), I agree with you 100 percent!!!!

Chatahan.......wildcat

[Bodymechanic]

Q. How did Bill Wilson the founder of AA spend the last years of his life?

A. In bed with dibiliating depression while his wife took care of him. While he was writing the 12 & 12 he smoked 3 packs of cigarettes a day till he died. I find it ironic that the founder of serenity movement could never find it himself.

THE REASON??????

BIOCHEMICAL DISORDER OF THE BRAIN!!!!!!!

[taeme]

I completely agree I wish that people would see this for the mental disorder it is.  I'm interested what do you do? If you don't mind me asking?  I am in school for Chem. Eng. I also have a RN degree and a few years critical care, ICU under my belt. I don't work now, I go to school full time. I'm very interested in what you discover.

[Sundown]

While you know I agree with you about the biocheical and medical basis of addiction, I don't believe it will ever boil down to just a simple transmitter imbalance. For one, while it has been shown that opiates and stimulants do effects dopamine (and norepinephrine) levels, no one has shown that low levels exist in the brain BEFORE opiates are used. Rather, there may be a genetic prediposition for we addicts to be overly sensitive to the effects on our endogenous dopamine production by substances, rather than others who use prescription drugs as directed. Most of us also have underlying psychiatric issues in addition to our addictions (depression, bipolar, anxiety, PTSD etc)which effect our neurotransmitters. Still, behavior and choices still matter. For example, talk therapy for depression can affect serotonin neurotransmitter levels as much as antidepressants. The brain is quite plastic, with recent studies showing that in adults brain cells can regenerate in some circumstances (once thought to be impossible). Given the multifactorial events that led each of us here, I don't believe there will ever be a universal "magic bullet", but rather customized therapy for what each of us need to overcome our addictions.

Sundown

[taeme]

I believe this to be true also.  I do think however that a biochemical treatment may be the first step to help prevent or assist in recovery.  Althought not all people will fit into the biochemical model, I believe there are a good portion that is there were adequate levels of dopamine etc... that the draw towards drugs would lessen.

[lisabet]

I read with interest both of your posts. BM - you're definitely on to something with the biochemical theory.  With all the knowledge and advances in modern medicine, why can't anyone figure this out?  
Chatahan - I also have a demon named "alcohol". I have cut down a lot, since coming to this forum, but shamefully, I can't help but admit the comfort I find in it. That first drink, when you sit back and feel the warmness and comfort in it.  The drinks that come afterward is almost insignificant, it's that first one that calms the turmoil inside.  You hang in there girl, you and I both are gonna kick this thing. Don't beat yourself up when you "slip" - just remember the days you "didn't" drink - that counts for something.  You're an aching soul just looking for some comfort and relief.  I remember reading an interview by the late Kurt Cobain (of Nirvana) that I've never forgot. He was addressing his addictions (herion, etc) and said he believed that people who were plagued by addictions were sensitive souls that was just trying to buffer the noise of everyday life. It just made so much sense to me. I yearn for quiteness and serenity. Sometimes the noise in my office just makes me want to scream!!!  Sadly, Mr. Cobain expired by a self-inflicted gunshot---obviously, he couldn't take the noise anymore.  Again, this is where BodyMachanics theory comes in--the biochemical thing--addicts have a definite different biochemistry than the average person who can have a social drink and take pills responsibly for pain.  Addicts don't have a clue about this--one drink leads to several, one pill leads to 10.  It may seem like we are foregoing personal responsibility, but the truth is we can't help ourselves.  If anyone thinks this is a vague excuse for those who keep using, so be it, but I don't think it has anything to do with willpower, we are just trying to "stifle" our body's screaming needs to feel "normal".  I have been taking the Thomas recipe, and it really has helped the cravings; that in itself tells me that the proper supplements and drugs can help cure this malady for so many people.  Didn't mean to write a book - just my opinion, but one I feel strongly about.  Hope everyone has a good weekend. Love, Lisabet

[Sundown]

I agree with you. I just think that the forms of treatment are not and probably will not be the same for all. What will really help is when it will be possible to identify the best treatment for each person, rather than the trial and error we now rely on the hope in finding help. I found a help for myself, which might not work for others. While we are all universal in sharing our addictions, we are all individuals who need help that is specific to our needs. But one universal factor that does seem to help us is the love and support from others who understand us and don't judge us.

Sundown

[puma]

Lisabet,

Thanky you for the kind words and support. I know both of us need it so much. You did not write a book, I enjoyed reading every word of encouragement and what you are experiencing yourself with your addiction.

I know detaox is ****, but I have done it before and will probably do it again. The thing is, the less we drink the better. If I drink five days instead of seven, that is better. If only the weekend, even better. But for us addicts it is so hard to cut down, the cravings and withdrawal,(shakes) force us to indulge once again. You are doing great trying to cut down. That is the best way to avoid bad withdrawal. Unfortunately, My brain really craves untilo about one month clean. I will stop everything except the klonopin tomorrow. T

[puma]

Lisabet,

Sorry, my computer went whacko like me.LOL. As I was saying, the Klonopin should help with the withdrawal but even so the first 48 hours are the hardest than sometimes on day four or five the seizures. I am hoping I caught the relapse in time to avoid the seizures, I think I did.

My drug and alcohol counselor and wife are going to visit me tomorrow, great.!!!!!!LOL

Actually I have alot of work to keep me busy as well so I think it should not be too much of a problem, just some sleepless,sweaty, tossing nights. But really I need to get my act together so I am not angry about it. I just hate slipping.

You hang in there, you are doing good at reducing your intake, that is great. Your withdrawal will not be nearly as bad, maybe even not that noticable. Good luck and God Bless. Hang in there and post anytime. I don't have an email through hotmail yet, but when I do I'll give it to you, so we can talk if you'd like. I know they don't want us to post our real one although I did way down the threads somewhere.

Chatahan.........wildcat

[taeme]

I want to point out that (in my opinion) no medical, psych. or other treatment is the be all end all.  I just want this to be recognized as a true disease.  I just hate that we're like social pariah I would say that for the most part on this site, that everyone is pretty well educated, with families, responsible.  You know what no one would look at me and think I'm an addict.  I look like an innocent sweet girl, thats what I let them see.  I'm very studious, I don't party, I stay home most of the time, I have pretty much a 4.0 and I'm working on my second degree.  I participate in community service, I have 3 organizations I'm active with, I work out, and participate in intramural sports.  I am the picture of an addict and this is what people must become accustomed to, they aren't necessarily the junky on the corner.  I suppose I could be them, anyone could but I've been dealing with this for about 4 yrs. now. Sorry for going off on a tagent.  I just had to get it off my chest.  Thanks for listening.

[lisabet]

Good luck tomorrow with your counselor - it always helps to talk to someone. I admire your honest and open posts. You inspire me to do the same.  Thank you for giving me the courage to confront my own demons.  Love and peace, Lisabet.

[lisabet]

I just read your post---you're right - we are the sweet girl next door, your co-worker, the person you sit next to in a Teachers/Parent meeting.  We are not a sterotype.  We are adept at hiding our affliction...no one knows!  I suspect there are more of us out there than anyone would think. I am a responsible single mom, works every day, have a good relationship with my family, co-workers, lover. Yet not one of these people know my struggle of addiction. You hang in there, Taeme - all of us that visit this forum want pretty much the same thing, but we don't really always know how to get it: sobriety.  I've learned a lot just reading, and I feel I get just a "little" stronger everyday.
Good thoughts and energy coming your way...Love, Lisabet

[gia]

To anyone who is against NA, I have to say that this forum is very similar to it. we are all addicts trying to support one another. And yes by admitting to others our addiction and sharing our experiences we are increasing our chances  of staying clean.

[groovygirl]

My six year old daughter tells this joke like a real pro...cracked me up and brightened my day.

This duck walks into a bar and says, "Got any grapes?"  The bartender replies, "No this is a bar.  We don't have any grapes."  So the duck leaves and comes back the next day asking, "Got any grapes?"  The bartender replies, a bit annoyed this time, "No, we don't have any grapes."  The duck leaves and comes back the next day asking again, "Got any grapes?"  The bartender, having lost his patience tells the duck, "If you ever come in here again asking for grapes, I'll nail your bill to the bar!"  So, off goes the duck only to return the next day asking, "Got any nails?"  When the bartender replies, "No" the duck asks, "Ok then, you got any grapes?"

[taeme]

I'll tell you what if those things were anywhere I could get them without having to steel or break and enter they'd be gone.  If you have the courage to flush them I would. I say this knowing I probably couldn't.  I feel relieve just knowing there on the way, they're there.  One the other hand maybe you too would feel better just knowing they're there and leave it at that.  But since your in so much pain I would be very leary about it.  As far as my family, I am married 3 years, together nearly 8. No children.  He doesn't understand.  I can't really go to him for support, I once told him I needed help like therapy, hospital etc... He said well do it then. I went so far as to tell him that I needed him to put me there.  Nothing.  My parents have no idea, to them I'm still the smart perfect child, what more could they ask for.  I could never tell them.  Besides they don't live close enough to be of any real help, and I know my mom would be like "quit", she did ask me once when I was on coke if I were doing drugs she was looking at my arms on my wedding day. I said no, just a rash. She knew. She did nothing.  Thats how its always been, she'll give advice until she's blue in the face, but denies any real problems.  Just like the time when I was 16, and I was sick for 3 days were I couldn't get of the couch and then finally she said you better be sure, do you need to go to the hospital.  I said yes, within 2 hours I was having my appendix removed, they said had I waited any longer it would have ruptured.  I just don't understand cause I never was a complainer.  I guess when she grew up she didn't get much sympathy, I was basically your on your own.  Not to say that my mom wasn't the best mom she could be, which I now realize, I love her dearly.

[hippy]

i posted your question when i got through.
have a great day and a restful week end
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

good question

[groovygirl]

guess no one's in the mood for jokes today?

[groovygirl]

guess no one's in the mood for jokes today?  

laugh and the world laughs with you...cry and you cry alone.

[LizzyM]

Thanks for putting a smile on my face!  Kids are the funniest and greatest joke teller..I have a 7 yr old myself..love her to death!  And, she puts a smile on my face everyday.

[LizzyM]

I can relate.  My omo is the same way..has a deaf ear to everything.  Luckily, I was blessed with a husband who listens and got me help.  Also, my in-laws were very supportive..took care of my kids for 10 days while I got Detoxed and came home.  My mother-in-law told me "that however long it takes, I will be there".  That was the best thing for me.  My mom blames the doctors, not me.  I flat out told her that it was my fault.  I was honest with everyone around me about my Hydro addiction.  I am the type of person that what you see is what you get..I am very honest and can't lie.  I even told my neighbor.  You know what she said??---"I knew you were on something and got hooked"!  It's amazing how people can read your face but are afraid to say anthing.  Anyway, everyone around me were very supportive.  I have a twin brother is has been on Soma, Vicadin, and probably other stuff non-stop for years now.  He does not see that he has a problem.  He does have a pertruding disc leaning into his spine which the doc finally discovered just this week.  But he has NO job, lives off of Gov checks and lives with my mom.  He is 33yrs and plays video games all day and rents  movies..for 5 years now...he is in a fantasy land.  I have tried to talk to him about this, but he will NEVER see it.  My hubby and I are sure that even if he has surgery to fix his pertruding disc, he'll still have some excuse to stay on pills and stay in bed 24/7 like he does now..  I think he is a Maniac Depressed person who refuses to admit it and get the proper help.  Then when I got addicted to Hydro's for 3 mos, looking at him convinced me that I didn't want to turn out like him.  I have kids..and they deserve better than that.  Anyway, maybe you should just admit yourself to the hospital and have your husband talk to an Addictionalogist...when my husband did this, he understood so much better what I was dealing with.  And his support meant everything to me.  Good luck..I'll be thinking of ya!

[Bodymechanic]

To all of you who have written that addiction is not strictly a biochemical disorder. I could not AGREE MORE. Clearly there are social, genetic and possibly nutritional aspects.  There is clearly a choice involved taking drugs.  No one has ever shoved a pill down my throat. I have been focusing so much on the biochemical aspect because first there is virtually no research or interest in doing research to find a solution.  Second, I feel it may be the most important part of the problem. I believe it is my biochemistry that takes me out of the catagory of recreational user to that of an addict.  There are people who can use drugs for years and then just stop without a second thought. I hate these people.  There are others who use drugs in high doses for long periods of time and do not get withdrawal. I hate them even worse. What I am saying is that I would like to do drugs for fun and not to treat other symptoms like depression and pain.

I know that there is no magic bullet, a pill to take that will make it all go away. But at least a level playing field would be nice.

Peace

[taeme]

Thank you for your support.  I don't think I can do it myself.  Right now I've been clean (nothing at all) well today is day 4.  Its not going to last cause stuffs on the way.  My husband tries but hes really good at avoiding any issue.  You get so frustrated you just give up, or he gives in but it means nothing. I have no intention of leaving him. I love him, and he loves me I know.  Just going to have to do it by myself or with outside help, and screw anyone that gets in my way or doesn't understand how truly difficult this is.  Its not so much the physical its more the psychological aspect for me anyway.  I also think I have a desire to see what I can get away with? It was almost fun to see if I could find the hidden meds. Well anyway thanks for your support.  Look forward to reading everyones comments.  Taeme

[LizzyM]

Your welcome!  It's hard for your husband to understand cause he probably has never been addicted to anything in his life.  Addicts are clearly misunderstood by society way too much.  That is why there is this Forum...cause we are people who understand, listen and try to give some sane advice.  Have him come to this forum and read some comments.  My husband said he was so proud of me that I found this forum and talk to people here...they have HELPED me SO much!  When I found this forum is when I realized that I had a problem..just by reading everybody elses comments.  There are normal everyday people from all walks of life here from around the world.  I'm here in AZ..I don't know anyone except my twin who has a pill problem.  It really runs in my family.  I do believe it is a disease.  My dad was an alcoholic, not my mom, and I hate alcohol!  So, here is me and my bro with a pill addiction problem.  My mom was on Zanax for anxiety after her brother screwed her out of $10,000.00 and there was nothing she could do about it.  SHe stopped  with NO problem with the Zanax!  I guess some of can and some can't.  I am on Ambien 10mgs now for the anxiety and withdrawals...my sis is afraid I'll get hooked..doc told me not to use for more than a week.  But, I had severe insomnia and shakes for a week, felt like I was going insane, and the Ambien did wonders.  I will be stopping them on Tuesday.  Good luck to use.  Try to get some outside help...it works.

[hippy]

i wanted to let you know i have 33 year old nephew
who is a molecular bioligist who graduated mit and harvard
and is a reserch scientest and he has told me that there is plenty of reserch going on on the feild of addiction.
he is spending most of his reserch on aids at the present time.
he has told me of one reserch project where there are twins one is a full bown addict in and out of recovery and his brother has never had a problem.
there is a simlar project with twins where one brother is gay and
one straight , .bothe studies are saying that addiction and homosexuality are not genetic.
these studies are far from over.
what was up with loose lips i did not understand the point.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps . im ans addict and as you know go to na , and there is no smoking, and the stats ther are this  35 percent stay clean.
30 percent go out and die . and the other 30 percent are dead but they just don't know it yet.

and in the philly area there is  no one stipulated to na . that seem s to be an aa thing.
and  a point regarding stipulated people, they are ushally very happy to get stipulated, because there option is jail time.

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! michael

[Bodymechanic]

It may well be that there is no genetic component to addiction.  I think it is a moot point.  What is important is that for what ever reason, be it the drug use itself, or as a learned behavior to deal with cognitive or emotional problems, it leads to a biochemical disorder of the brain. The disorder of the brain may long precide the drug use. This is a perfect senario to describe my own drug history. My drug use was a learned behavior to compensate for how awful I felt inside from a very young age. I still feel that way inside my head. My drug use makes me feel "normal" or at least what I think is how normal people feel. I am long past using drugs for the fun of it. I use drugs because I am "sick". I can choose to not use any drugs. But that is a discision to be miserable.  I am perfectly well adjusted to life.  I have no issues and other than this little problem my life could not be better.

Along the same lines, about gay people. You will never convince me that gay people are that way by choice.  They are that way because the cannot be any other way.  It is difficult being gay with all the problems and prejudice that go along with it. I cannot imagine anyone wanting their life to be so difficult if they had a choice.  That is how I feel about being an addict. I am not an addict by choice.

If there are any gay people here, if I am wrong, please correct me.  Maybe then, I can choose not to be an addict.

Peace

[hippy]

i have many gay freinds, and i agree with you .
it is not a choice. for them, one of my freinds has said to me
he would not wish being gay on anyone.
as far as being and addict i do not think that is a choice either.
my addictive personality was part of my personality way before i picked up a drug, i had stopped useing all drugs for 17 years.
but i was still an addict i just substituted with other things like work, reading , gambling, eating, spending. sex, ect.
i take things to extreems, one extreem or the other ,

[smalltown]

it hasn't been a good day.  I have been so stressed out, work, just life.  My dr is on vacation, but he did prescribe me 30 vic's on the 28th of October.  Needless to say, I took about 3/day and they are gone.  My neck is almost stiff from being so stressed today, so I went to a walk in clinic.  I explained to the Dr that I was stressed, and I never asked for any medication, or requested any, I was actually thinking I may just need some Ambien to help me sleep as that has been poor the last couple of days.  He ended up giving me 2 RXs, one for some sort of muscle relaxant and one for 15 vicodin.  So I take it to the pharmacy.  I sit and sit, finally I asked if my prescriptions were ready, they told me my insurance wouldn't fill the vicodin until the 12th because I had 30 filled at another pharmacy on 10/28, and I guess you have to wait 2 weeks.  My point is I was so embarrassed, humilitated, I felt like a total seeker.  I cried when I left, not because I couldn't get any drugs, but because of how it made me feel.  On my drive home I thought it over.  When my dr comes back from vacation, I am going to tell him I went to a walk in clinic.  I don't want him to think I was pulling a fast one, because I wasn't.  I feel so low. I felt as though everyone in that friggin pharmacy thought I was a user.  Has any one ever had this happen to them?  I don't want to be put on some list as someone out seeking drugs.  I only see one dr and he is in europe.  I feel sick to my stomach, I'm not a good person, I came home and yelled at my husband, I just feel like I'm so wound up tight, I just need to mellow out.  it didn't phase me that they wouldn't fill the RX, I was fine with the one for the muscle relaxer (at least I believe that is what it is), I just feel like I got busted doing something wrong.  I'm making myself sick about it.  

sorry for rambling.  I didn't expect to be feeling like this tonight.  please let me know if anyone has experienced this type of situation.  I am really embarrassed.  I am so sorry to everyone, especially...myself.

[LizzyM]

I've been there.  I actually paid for my Vic's out of pocket cause I knew the ins company would deny it and trying to hide it from my hubby.  I was trying to stock up.  Felt like a loser.   You are yelling at your husband BECAUSE of the using.  This should be an eye opener.  I found myslef snapping at my seven year old for every little reason when I was on those Hydro's..and that's not me.  You got to hang in there and be honest with yourself..get off the meds.  Be care with Muscle relaxers also..can cause you to go into seizure if you get addicted and try to stop on your own.  Tell your hubby why you snapped.  Does he know about your need for pain meds?  Try as best you can to stop takings pain meds.  It's easier said then done, but it is possible.  Don't destroy your life with your husband and family over Vic's...so not worth it.  And sometimes women realize it too late..after the husband has had enough.  Be good to yourself.  Good luck..I'm here if you need to talk..and just a little note--my husband just made some alcoholic frozen drinks, and offered me one.  I said NO WAY..not going there.  I have never had a alcohol problem, but going through withdrawal can get you hooked on something else. Another thing..Ambien is awesome for withdrawals and sleep..but do not take it without your doc knowing and no more than a week.  Feel better.

[LizzyM]

Also, you are not a bad person!  Don't be so down on yourself..it just makes you stress more and makes things way more difficult.  The pharmacy deals with people that take 5 or more prescriptions at one time or 10-25 Vics a day!  It probably didn't even faze them..besides, they don't care..they make money off of us!  Take care..take a HOT bath..put a heating pad on your neck or ice if you prefer.  Sometimes heat first than ice really helps.  Your body is making you ache so bad so that you will put more pills in your body.  WHen we abuse pain meds, our body stops producing our natural Endorphines to deal with pain.  So, everything hurts.  My neck and back have been so on fire and I've been clean for 17 days.  I take Ibuprofen on a full stomach 600-800mgs over the counter.  It works..and somebody here suggested very hot baths..it works.  Drink lots of water when taking lots of hot baths.  I would get up in the middle of the night and take about 4 baths while my husband and kids were fast alseep.  Whatever works!  Hope you feel better.

[hippy]

he wrote that losse lip thing in the above post
i just asked  what was it written for , it did not make any sense
to me. i know what it means and where it comes from. it just did not fit into anything i wrot today.
my day today has been great, one of the best days this year.
all i can gather is something i wrot about the air base i live next too. someting i posted a while back ??? like i said
im puzzled by .
i take no offensse i just wondered waht it was about.
no big deal either way. if there was somethig i could do  or not
do i would be glad to comply. just did not understad what it pertained to.
all i can gather at this point is that b mech is concerned about someone in the service, overseas.
im still not clear tho. but i will not mention ay\ny thing about the air base next to me. , if that is what it is by chance.
i really try to stick to addiction and recovery.
agian i know what the term means . i have  high ranking famly in the u.s. services also.

[taeme]

I just want to say to, that Dr's are become more accustomed, suspicious of patients no matter what they look like, who they are.  Here is Mississippi they are mad, crazy, tight with their narcotics.  I once had kidney stones and they gave me darvocet. I've lived other places and its nothing like here. I guess they've had a lot of problems, I would have thought MS would have been a little more relaxed, you know with all the country small town docs.  They have shifted to toradol for the most part over here for severe pain(they do us the old stand bys too but you pretty much need to have surgery or trauma.  For those of you in pain that want something non narcotic, but that worked wonders for my open heart patients for pain.  Toradol is a good bet, it falls into the NSAID group.  I know that group seems just like a lot of fluff but this really worked for that their severe pain.  Just thinking this could be an option for those who need pain control and want to steer clear of narcs.  Has anyone tried them, I have a script but I haven't filled or tried them yet, I haven't needed them.

What length have you guys gone to to obtain your "evil"?  I just want to see that I'm not the only one that has done extreme things, and things that I'll regret for the rest of my life( more for hurting the people I love, you can't take it back).

[Sundown]

Maybe what makes us particularly scary to "society" is the fact that we ARE the normal next door neighbor. Many of us started out using drugs for medical reasons. That means, if it can happen to us, it can potentially happen to anyone. That is very threatening to society. People can look at addicts living in the street, hustling for drugs, and think of how different they are from those "bad People". Yet if they look at us, they see themselves.

At the same time the medical establishment is motivated to keep prescription abuse under the table as it would be one, admiting liability (as in the negligance of mistreating and creating addiction, and two, losing the huge revenues that these legal drugs produce for the drug companies (Vicodin is the THIRD highest prescribed drug in the US, ahead of many of those  other "blockbuster BILLION DOLLAR" new drugs). Lets face it Purdue knew about the problemas and risks of oxy for several years. They knew of it's high abuse potential, and how easy the sustained release mechanism could be overcome by just chewing or crushing. Yet they marketeed like crazy. Remember it was licensed for use in severe, CHRONIC pain, but their slaesreps pumped docs up on hoe great the damn drug was and you eneded up with podiatrists prescribing it for bunion removal. Purdue claims it will take them 3 more years to "redevelop their delivery system" to reduce the abuse potential, but other sustained mechanisms for other drugs, INCLUDING OPIATES,are on the market. They just don't want to pay the royalties for the technology. For those in chronic severe pain, yes, used as prescribed, the med is a gift. For those who abuse, it's a nightmare. But with serious money on the table, do you think Purdue is going to discourage docs from prescribing it? Face it, we are dealing with a LEGAL drug cartel, with lobbyists, political donations, and p.r. and advertising firms. Are they really going to say, "Yeah, we deal drugs and push them like crazy"?

Perhaps one day society will be ready to open their eyes and hearts and address this public health epidemic. Until then, we need to help each other, find our own way to break our cycle, and show the world the truths of addiction

Sundown

[hippy]

whats up.
for addicts it is important for us to stay in reality,
we have a natraual tendency to live in phantsey.
reality is the only place to get better. and you can get a
really good cheese buger there.
but in phantsey land its all bull ****, and we go round in circles, it's all about basic's  stay clean for 1 day
,try to be honest, don't scam any doctors today
find someone you can trust and talk with them.
reality is people are dying famlys are being ripped to peices.
wether we know it or not we are very gifted  ,addicts
are have a hard time with the harshness of reality , so
we run for cover to the dope and pills.
when we are taken days off our lives by useing 10 or more
pills a day we have crosse over a line  to insanity
not the same insanity as some , buy we are crazy none the less.
we live in an age where we have a patch for not smoking.
a patch for not having kids, a patch for pain.
instantgradification thats what it is , and that is our problem.

we want it all now,but addiction is more complex than that.
it is a disease of the spirit. and powerless ness has nothing to do with anything exterior, it is totoly interior, it has to
do with our feeling , thoughts and spirit. it is about our reactions,
we are the problem not the drugs,we are only powerless over our reactions, we are not powerless over what we do.
recovery is an inside job.

[groovygirl]

I like that you said we are not powerless over what we do. I made the same point a couple days ago, and some people came back and basically said that addiction makes you do certain things...sometimes illegal things.

While it's true that our desire for drugs may push us to do things we wouldn't normally do, we have the power inside to say no to those urges.  

Recogizing the power within us is a huge step in recovery I think.  Thanks for the reminder.

[hippy]

good morning.
nice to see you posting .
hope all is well in the land of salem.
or the land of peace

[Starraven]

I tried to start a new thread but it said it was full for today!

I hadn't really come up with a new topic or question yet, but it just seemed so quiet.  

This past week I feel that the forum has reached a real family like atmosphere.  I posted things that I have never told anyone except my husband.  I feel that comfortable here!  For that I thank all of you!  Each and everyone of you for helping me make it over a MONTH Narc free!  

Taeme asked a question about family in another thread,  What I want to ask is if you DO have children and they are of age to understand addiction,  Have you told them? do you have the support of your wife, husband, children ect?  Or do you suffer it alone?   When I go through the withdrawals and I am SO sick, I just tell my children that I am coming off the medication for my back again (but i don't tell them that I take up to ten a day instead of the prescribed eight sometimes, nor do I tell them I function better while on them, mentally)  I tell them that my body and my mind think they NEED the medication and that my body is punishing me for not giving it what it wants.  (My oldest is almost 14 and my son is 12 and then I have a four year old jewel, Amber.  Now, I suffer from extreme pain alot of the time and my husband sees me suffer and begs me to go and get the pills I need, but I refuse and he says I am being ridiculous.  HE is very supportive when I want to come off the meds and will even have someone take over his appointments ( We have a Large animal practice) , but he is not so supportive of me allowing myself to be in pain all the time. (at one point I was in a wheel chair due to my protrusion of the lumbar)  
Its so easy for non addicts to say..."Just quit" or "Take the damn pill"
How in the world do we make them understand!   I am so frustrated with my husband right now because he filled my prescription and they are sitting right here at my desk, staring me in the face!  I have absolutely no idea when he did this, they were just here when I woke up.  Right now I am the Hunch Back of Notradam and in alot of pain, but I think it is too soon for me to even say "one will help my pain" and stop at that.  
HELP!   Maybe I should flush them.  At the very least I am going to get them out of my sight.  This is going to be tough.  I wish he would have taken them to work with him!
Please excuse me for rambling so.  I apologize.
Hugs,
Suze

[bmac]

How are you today? I am sure you feel like ****,but hang in there. How about replying today and let us know what's up.
Methadone withdrawals can be hell to go through but it can be done without going nuts!
Let us know Brother!!,
                         bmac

[Sundown]

I'm a divorced Dad. My daughter is only 7, so I've never discussed anything about my problems with her. I do plan to talk to her when she of an age where she can learn and understand what I have gone through so that hopefully, she won't ever repeat the mistakes I made, and if she ever needs it, know that help is always there.
I went through the last month "alone", but this forum gave me great support in getting this far.

Sundown

[LizzyM]

Thanks for the wb site..I will take any info I can get!  I'm starting to feel ALOT better, finally.  Day 17 for me..back is still throbbing!

[lisabet]

LizzyM is very much correct...while you were embarrassed and mortified, for the pharmacy it was just business as usual. This happened to me once too. The pharmacist explained to me that since I had a prescription filled for vics 2 weeks before, the insurance wouldn't clear another one for 10 more days. I think on controlled substances this is the norm for most insurance companies, they won't clear the same opiate until 30 days after you've had the first prescription filled. Try to let go of your frustration and don't beat yourself up over it. The hot bath suggestion sounds good---think I'll go have one myself to get my mind off that bottle of pills that keeps calling my name...ha. Have a good weekend and take care, Lisabet

[puma]

Hippee,

Yeh, I read the lower post first and was confused. After reading the top post now I understand what you meant. I am glad you are having a great day. Take care and by the way, I do believe in the 12 steps system, but the one here is quite different than Stateside unfortunately.

Chatahan.......wildcat

[hippy]

you can always pay cash

[taeme]

I had a little different perspective here, I've had the same or similar things happen to me.  Mostly when I can for a script and its not there, I call again.  I feel like they think I'm an addict.  I won't call more than 3 times, spread out.  Also how do you guys deal with the pharmacist seeing that pretty much your only prescriptions are narcotics, pain reliever, muscle relaxers etc... basically something controlled.  The different perspective after having worked in the medical field is that those in the field are almost looking for the addicts, and usually tune in quickly and are usually quick to judge.  I've seen it first hand, I've done it myself.  So I guess I always worry that I'm being judged that way to, I don't know I guess its a tone or a look in their eyes.  Maybe I'm too sensitive or its my own guilt.  I just know that I'm pretty acute when it comes to people.  I get the sense of "ok time to back off", or "don't come back here for awhile" or "time to go to the doc for some antibiotics" (maybe scam some cough medicine only on their suggestion).  Once someone was labelled a seeker then the attitudes changed to inpatience, rudeness, uncompationate, their pain was judged to be false or not as bad.  I hate to say this but this has been my experience.  I too cried after a dr's appt. when I went for migraines and he said " what do you want me to do about it, go home an make me out a headache log then come back".  I was so mad and embarrassed and frustrated that all I could do was cry.  Hope my story helps or at least enlightens you a little.  Maybe someone out there knows when to know when someone doesn't believe you, or whether your being labelled a seeker?  Also, is there a way to check if your on a pharmacy list?

[Sundown]

I appreciate both your stories. It's always hard to feel judged by others, especially when they think you're an addict. It feels demeaning and degrading. Most of us here are what I believe someone wrote here  are "funtioning addicts". We live our lives, work, have children, are involved in our communities In other words, just like all those other "normal people" out there. We feel ashamed and we hide our secrets even from our spouses who are supposed to be our life partners.

Yet it is that secrecy and shame that drive us deeper into this Hell of addiction. Once I commited myself to this new path, those feeling began to lift. I am no longer living in fear of what others may think of me. I am a recovering addict, and if they can't deal with, well, it's really their problem, not mine.  As I'm learning about why I became an addict, I am not ashamed. I made bad choices, but I understand how damaged my thought patterns were at the time, and am working and will continue to work to understand and heal myself.

As far as those pharmacists who you have felt were judging you, I found that as long as I paid cash/credit card (didn't want my insurance co. to have any records on it) they were quite willing to fill whatever I brought in (as long as it wasn't trying to renew a months rx after 2 weeks after all). They were essentially legal drug pushers, and I never got a raised eyebrow. Granted, I live in a large city with lts of big pharmacies around, but it sure seemed to me that they were quite willing to cater to someone who paid cash for anything. I wish a pharmacist had raised suspicions, it might have gotten me to stop earlier.

Smalltown, I know that you are in a small community and are so fearful of others finding out, know that you are a good  person facing a bad disease. Your fears of discovery have already motivated you to take that first steps to getting clean. You already took a hugh step by coming here. This may be the time for the next one.

Taeme, I know the stigma that can come from substance abuse in in professions. But the truth is professions like the medical community itself have one of the highest rates of drug and alcohol abuse of all....a combination of high stress and easy access puts all health care workers at risk. If those around you have an "atitude", maybe it's their fear of seeing themselves in you.

We all face demons, addicts or non-addicts. It's never easy, but at least we here are fighting. There are so many others out there who are not. Hopefully, through our struggles others will begin to see that those demons can be overcome, and by being willing to stand up in the light, rather than hiding in the dark, society may begin to see us as we really are, just like them except we have taken the tremendous effort of trying to live life fully, rather than merely accepting a bleak existence as the way life is.

Sundown

[groovygirl]

I know exactly what you went through.  It has happened to me numerous times...I'd just pay cash next time...if there is a next time.  I pay for Buprenex out of pocket, because my insurance won't pay for it...it's not a "preferred" drug - whatever that means.  So, I pay about $120 each time I get a refill.  

Anyway...who cares what these hypocrites think?  You shouldn't, because a lot of them are popping more pills than you could believe.  You have to stand up straight, look these people straight in the eyes and tell them what you need...do the same with your doc.  If you already feel guilty, your body language probably shows that...biting lip, playing with your hands, mumbling, etc.  I've let people in the medical profession really make me feel small - insignificant....NO MORE though.  I have found the ones that treat me nicely, and even though I have to drive a little more, it's worth it.

Stop beating yourself up...please...you sound like a very nice person.

[hippy]

the guilty man runs where no one chases,  (shakesphere)...
this is a good thing to rember we have to get past  ourselves.
like maraposa said stand up, look in the eye and bark at them.
ask fot there regional manager ect.

but if you ever find your self at a new pharmcy, start a relationship with the person, talk to them complement them.
laugh with them. share your life with them.
we tend to go in with our head down and never say a word.

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[smalltown]

Thanks to all you of you for your comments.  They are truly appreciated.  I guess I failed to mention the pharmacy tech that told me this was very nice, and said just come back in a few days and you can get it, I said to her can I just have the RX back and I'll just get it later, as the town I was in is 20 miles from where I live.  She said no.  I didn't get into it anymore, I just paid for the other Rx and left.  I don't think my body language gave away anything because I was just sitting there reading a magazine, because IN ALL HONESTY, I truly was just getting a RX filled, I didn't feel like I was getting a "fix", I just wanted to get home and take a bath.  I was more pissed at the fact that the pharmacy had me wait 35 minutes, then when I went up there they told me about the insurance not paying.  I beieve I asked if I could just pay cash for it, I'm not sure, I think I did, but it wasn't an option.  I have never had this problem before.  I never have tried to get an RX filled before that was denied (by insurance).  It was just plain embarrasing.  I felt like I did something wrong.  Guilt huh?  Now I know there is a RX for Vicodin waiting to be picked up on Tuesday.  I get freaked, thinking what if I go there and they ask me questions, but why would this happen?  Honestly, I only see one Dr and never go to different clinics to get RX's, so if they ask, I can only tell them the truth (if I have to tell them anything at all), my Dr. is in Europe.  Is this the reality, I'll go there on Tuesday, pick up my Rx and drive away and no one will care (except me)?  

I really appreciated everyones comments.  I can believe that pharmacies are used to dealing with people taking a lot more than I do, but I don't want to justify anything.  I want to own up to my own guilt, and I'm trying.

Please let me know what you think about my fear of picking up the prescription on Tuesday, like the pharmacy said I could.  Why do I feel like I did something so wrong?

peace

[smalltown]

I just re-read both of your comments.  Thanks to both of you.  I actually was angered when I spoke with the tech, but only because I had to wait so long for the Rx, which they had already put on hold.  Should they have just let me pay cash for the RX?  I did ask, and I believe I was told I couldn't, this is when I felt embarrassed.  Kind of a side note, while I was waiting, this hispanic, well dressed, clean cut guy came in and went up to the counter.  It ended up he was getting syringes.  When he walked away from the counter he told the pharmacy tech (whoever was helping him) that he was sick of the looks he was getting.  He was angry and said "people of color get sick too"  The pharmacy guy said, I wasn't giving you any looks sir, but the hispanic guy walked away.  It was a shitty moment.  I felt bad for the hispanic guy.  It sucked.  Just thought I'd mention this, maybe the pharmacy is just run by a bunch of assholes who do look down on people.  I certainly wasn't the only one in the whole 35 minutes I was there, that left upset.

[groovygirl]

If you really are not doing anything wrong, like trying to pass off a fake prescription or something, then you have absolutely nothing to fear.  What exactly are you afraid of?

[peaz]

As a pharmacy tech, it has been my experience to 1) let the customer pay cash if it's not ridiculously early.  The Rph usually has to okay this, but I've seen it done a million times  and 2) You had every right to get that script back.. Again, whenever a customer wanted  to try to find the drug cheaper elsewhere, changed his mind about even having it filled in the first place, and wanted to keep the RX for later, or WHATEVER.  It's yours and I think this pharmacy is in error.  The only time (that I'm aware of) that a pharnacy can keep a script is when they think it's fradulent, in which case the "fraudee" would be long gone...... : -)  Just my two cents.  
  Also--they are probably much too busy too dwell on who's getting how many refills of a certain drug, unless it's REALLY glaring---it's just not a priority, w/ everything else there is going on and to think about.  A little bit of paranoia on your part-- which is understandable after all of our drug seeking days, yeah?  We filled LOTS of scripts that were obviously for addicts, or abusers, but as long as it's a legit script, it's not up to the pharmacy.  I was never aware of any addict/seeker "list", either.  hope this makes you feel better.  Good luck .         Peaz            P.S.  What was the drug that you did get--the one you thing is a muscle rexalant?

[peaz]

Er---That last line would read: ....that you THINK was a muscle RELAXANT.  :-)

[Starraven]

Sorry I didn't write sooner,  but everyone had some great posts.  I never have come across that problem before, but if the first prescription you took was taken as prescribed and you ran out when you were supposed to run out then I see no problem in having that second one filled since your regular doctor is in Eurpope.  Tuesday, you march right in there and get that prescription!  DOn't let them intimidate you.  

My first job was as a pharmacy tech..(yes at age 16) when you mentioned about the man buying the syringes, it reminded me of one of our pharmacists..I called him Mr Bill.  If he didn't like the looks of someone he would tell me to tell them that we were out of syringes.  If the customers hair was a little long, or if it was a person of color or what have you.  Then we had the other pharmacist that would pop pills all day.  Granted they weren't as strict with the keeping of logs of controlled substances as they are now and nothing was computerized..everything was done by hand. You'll find pharmacists out there that are hypocrites.  They think they are the narcotics police but are back there popping pills whenever they feel like it.
My husband opened his own large animal practice just a few years back.  If I wanted to, I could order all the schedulled drugs I wanted with his DEA number, but you can bet your butt we will be inspected one day, one year and I wouldn't dare jeapordize the practice. Things are ALOT more controlled now than they were years ago.  So I guess they think they are saving their butts?  Who knows.  I just think if a damn doctor wrote it for you, you should be able to fill it.  I think this is the second time I have heard of something like this happening to a member of this forum. Just makes me so mad that people are needlessly humiliated.  
Let us know what happens.
Hugs to you
Suze

[curious1998]

Thank you so much for the advice, I'm telling you all of you, this forum has been a life saver for me!!  I'm just so afraid of going to Urgent Care, or my regular Doc, for fear they would want to slap me in a detox center, if my family finds out about this, especially my husband, I don't know what they would do.  I'm just so very ashamed.  Again thank you from my heart!!

curious

[smalltown]

Hello everyone:

just to clear things up, yes, the prescription was 100% real, I truly would never do anything as wrong as prescription fraud.  I did ask for the RX back and she (pharm tech) said no.  Do any of you think I should go back there and get it tomorrow?  I truly hate the fact of giving those asses one dime.  They were swamped when I was there, I heard one of the pharmacists grumble about it, so they weren't on their friendlies behavior.

Maybe I should take the advice I was given and just march in there and get my RX back, or even if I do wait until the 12th and pick it up and let them know how they made me feel.  I just truly would have rather gotten my rx back and gone somewhere else.  If its not fillable (per insurance) until the 12th, then fine, I'll wait till then, but I wish I'd of least gotten the script back.  It was like they were holding it hostage.  It's really what made me feel so bad, so odd.  If they'd of just handed it back to me, which they truly should have done, I'd of just left and not felt as bad as I did.  

I think I'll go get my damn rx back tomorrow (I'd go tonight, but it's 20+ miles away and they are not worth the effort).  Please let me know your thoughts.

I don't know you all, but you have truly made my situation better.  Thank you so much for not judging and letting me ramble on.  Much appreciated.

peace and till tomorrow

[peaz]

Hi kiddo-- Here's what you can do and it will look perfectly normal.  Tomorrow go back to the pharmacy and tell them you need the script back because you will be out of town on the 12th, when it is refillable, and you will need the meds at that time.  Don't tell them any details---it's none of their business.  They don't need to know where, for how long, and so on.   Just be calm and polite and you'll be fine.  Although if you want to tell them off, I guess that's up to you.  If they're really assholes, you won't be going back there, anyway, will you?  I t sounds to me llike they were very busy the day you went in, and perhaps the tech didn't want to mess w/ re-entering your script into the computer w/ no insurance, etc. so she let you think it wasn't possible.  Did you say you had about ten days left on the old script?  Which is why they weren't going to give it to you early?  Anyway, it was easier for her if you just "went away!" Just a suggestion.  You're well w/in your rights--don't feel like a criminal or something. What's your story? Are you weaning or planning to or what?  I must have missed your original post, so if you want to, just point me to the right thread and place. Thanks-Peaz      P.S. Don't feel guilty!

[curious1998]

Hey guys,

I called a couple of places today in the phone book, they gave me a name of a Doc. who might be able to help me in my area.  The only thing they said is I probably won't be able to do this as an out patient thing, that I would have to go in for total detox.  What do you guys think, should I go and see this Doc. and just tell him that is not an option for me? A couple of places I called, were so uncaring, which led me to tears.  What are your thoughts?  

Thanks so much,
curious

[smalltown]

How are you doing?  I just read your comment.  I probably will go into town tomorrow and get the script back.  I didn't have any pills left, it was just the insurance denying the claim.  Your idea was very right.  I would like to get the script back just because I hate to think of those asses getting my $.  Here is another issue, that I've thought of.  What if I go back there and they have lost the script?  On the script I did pick up, it was written on the bag that a script was picked up at another pharmacy for 30 vicodin on 10/28.  This is what freaked me out.  It made me feel like I was being tracked.  Paranoia at its finest.  

I am weaning myself off the ****.  I have only been doing about 5 or 6 darvon for well, about a few years.  I mentioned in my first comment that I don't even feel high anymore, not sure if I ever did.  Just felt normal.  I was not going to take any this weekend, so I'd have enough to get me through the work week, but I decided that I could take just a little and feel better.  I have only taken 3 maybe 4 a day.  I don't drink and don't smoke.  My husband smokes pot, but discreetly.  Everything people do is discreet huh?  if pot was legal, I'm not sure if he'd let his guard down and let people know he smokes as much as he does.  I feel ready to get clean.  I don't want to "want" anymore.  I have been burned out on looking for drugs.  When I lived in a bigger city it was a lot easier, lots more doctors to see, but now I only see one Dr.  Like I said the pharmacy freaked me out because it was written on the bag that I'd just gotten to script for 30 vics 10 days prior, and yes I'd taken them all.  

I don't do that much vicodin, as I don't have access to it, believe me if I had access to it I'd do more, but I don't.  The darvon come from another source.  Nothing illegal, just expensive.  The drugs are not worth it anymore.  I started doing them to help me get through a messy divorce, and well you know the story.

Thanks for writing.  Let me know what you think of them writing that on the bag.  I never saw my script again once I gave it to them.

Peace Peaz

[peaz]

Hey you--They just made a note on the bag for whomever waited on you, so they'd know the deal on the other med, knowing that you would ask about it.  That's very common and nothing to get paranoid about.  It just saves time, not having to bring up your name and info on the computer when you come in, and try to figure out, then, why it was never filled.  
  The script is not "lost"--if it was, they'd have to call the doc themselves and admit that it was THEIR fault and he would give them another RX over the phone.  What they normally do is "put it on file" in the computer, so it's all ready to fill on the appropriate date, and they don't have to keep a piece of paper hanging around.  The script is filed in an actual file.
   I wish you well in getting clean.  I'm almost to my First Year Mark and I can hardly believe it!!!  My energy is nearly normal, my moods are good, and I just feel good about straightening my life out and no longer living a lie.  Give it a shot!!!!!  You can do it, too.  Withdrawl is a *****, but so is keeping enough narcotics around.  I was just thinking to myself the other day: As hard as withdrawl and early sobriety is, it's still easier than addiction. I really believe that. If I can help in any way, let me know.        Hugs---Peaz

[xsweetestx]

I have a 33 yr old daughter on crack.As Im writing this she is in the hospital 6 mths pregnant in and out of labor..They have stopped her labor cause the baby is at maybe 2 lbs and wont survive..This is her 3rd child and 2nd one with crack involved..He was born clean but preemie and still went thru withdrawals..Both boys are with me and the new one will also be placed with me..Im having a hard time dealing with this cause there isnt chit I can do to help her..She dont want help..Our state (MI)doesnt do anything about this so she is gonna keep having these babies..I would like to know if anyone has had to deal with this and also if anyone has any siggestions please let me know...

[users mom]

hello again  heard from no one about my sons addiction of pills and herion.  he uses every day.his attitude very bad. he cant hold a job forlonger than 3 weeks.steals anything he can and pawns it for cash.he started taking his 6 year old sisters toys to pawn for cash. as his mom iam watching my family being torn  apart by him what should i be doing /tryed just about everything.any suggestions will be appreciated. thanks.

[puma]

User's mom,  

I am sorry for you but all I can suggest for now is (al-anon) a group that supports people with friends or relatives of addiction habits. It may help you decide what to do. God Bless.

Chatahan......wildcat

[groovygirl]

Hello - It is mostly addicts who write here.  If your son was to post something, I'm sure he would get more reponses.  Someone suggested a support group for family of addicts.  You'd probably get more what you are looking for there.  Your son has to make the first step toward recovery...I know you feel helpless, and the truth is that you cannot do anything to get him moving.

[Thomas02]

Narcanon is a worldwide group specifically for family and spouses of addicts.

Thomas

[peaz]

?Que paso a la farmacia?  Let us know if you got your script, meds, or what?       Peace---Peaz

[GOD]

La sra. Peaz, por favor parada haciendo preguntas en el español. La mayor parte de los otros participantes del foro no hablan este idioma. ¿Pienso que los dientes son muy hermosos; usted tiene los sentimientos hacia dientes? ¿Usted está celoso de dientes grandes y blancos?



Espero que usted tenga un buenos días, y que ningunos coches se caen de su casa.

El sr. Peterson

[peaz]

You goofball!  My Spanish is rusty, so let's see how well I did: Don't post on the forum in Spanish because most people on here don't speak it.
    This is the shakey part: Do I think smiles are pretty???
Do I have big, white teeth????

You hope I had a good day and-----you hope no cars fall on my house?????   See--I told you I was rusty!! I got most of your post above to Suze--but what about the chicken w/ cajones muy GRANDE????!!!  There's got to be something missing here.  Am I too literal????  Esta es muy divertida.

[GOD]

My Spanish is really rusty too.... Actually I don't speak it; The computer translator wrote that post to you... Yes, I was hoping that no cars fell out of your house.. The weirdest things look so "Romantic" in Spanish. Just go to www.Freetranslation.com, and you can translate any English text to any number of foreign languages....

But, It would be better if we didn't talk about things other than addiction on this forum. Some people are getting mad, and I don't blame them.

~~~~Jess~~~

[lisabet]

Hey there - great quote - "I don't want to "want" anymore".
This is exactly where I am right now.  Couldn't say it any better.  Take care, Lisabet

[puma]

Jesse,

Takka, Canosa naggi. Machizo, shan'e cahonis? Tachusa'nah?
Ee cana na mah'nacha. Tah cunah manalea.

Chatahan......wildcat

[Sparkyswife]

Where for support indeed - I find organized programs to be trite, and adhering too firmly to the 12 step program.  I guess I'm a nonconformist - I don't want to follow anybody's own 12 steps, I want to make them my own or they won't work.  The same opinion keeps my husband out of Narcotics Anonymous.  We've tried to solve problems on our own, but it's like they say about the guy who acts as his own lawyer having a fool for a client...  

BUT - forums like this are amazing - thank you Hippee for your original remarks; they're like a shot of vitamin B12.

Love hearing everyone's own twist on what works for them. THIS is where to find support; this isn't an hour of chit chat that goes missing as soon as we leave the building.  These words are real, spoken by real folks in their own terms and not recited verbatim (unless I choose to plagiarize something one of you said and use it as my mantra - might just do that. )

Thanks to everyone. I hope you have some idea of how deeply your remarks affect even one person who stumbles across this site.