How can young professionals avoid age discrimination?

[RamblingSeminarian]

Nice to see this new board!  Here's my question (with background)...

I'm 26 years old, beginning my last year in Seminary working on a Masters in Divinity.  Having finished the first two years which are pretty much completely didactic training, I'm about to begin more hands-on learning.  The first opportunity starts in just a few days.  I'll be doing a Psychiatric Chaplaincy internship over the summer.  When I return to the Seminary in August, I'll be a half-time student and a half-time pastoral intern.  Here is what I see as the challenges...

The average age of a Seminary student nationwide (also accurate of my own school and denomination) is approximately 40 years old.  The majority of the people that I live and study with are second-career students.  Most of the church members that I would work with as a pastor would also fit into that category.  They will also have life-challenges that I will have yet to experience.  My pastoral counseling professor spoke to this and believes that age is not a critical factor, but I can't help but wonder if that will be factor to those seeking that pastoral counseling.  Also, while my denomination is an EOE, individual churches decide how many years experience they require of a pastor.  It's frustrating to think that even with the same educational achievements as my classmates, and as much/if not more passion for my career that my age could deter me from serving as a pastor.

I would be grateful for any input you may have.  I've considered doing an additional chaplaincy internship after graduation, but even with that I would be less than 30 when I begin searching for a pastoral position.  Thanks for your time!

Sherry
(ramblingseminarian)

[RamblingSeminarian]

Ok....first I'm not "blaming" the family at all...my point was that they naturally gravitated towards the older chaplain intern (without knowing the experience level of either).....and I don't really need anyone telling me to grow up....I have experienced many of the same difficulties as those older than myself...taking care of a primary guardian through a terminal illness and staying with them even at death...I do (and always will) fight a potentially deadly disease which I could just give up to, but I chose to fight it instead...I went through the court system and was granted full emancipation from my biological parents at age 15 and have been self-sufficient since.  I understand what it means to work hard as I've worked my own way through my education...I'm not lacking in life experience, I'm lacking in chronological years.  I would never in a million years address an issue such as this with any of the patients/family that I encounter daily, to do so would not be professional.  I do feel that it was inappropriate for any poster to make assumptions on my call to ministry, that's not their place.  What I do find a bit annoying is that in a thread trying to progress beyond the issue of age discrimination that wishforchange would do precisely that (discriminate based on age) to the other posters.

[Toomanyadvil]

Rambling..I am so very sorry this has happened on your thread and taken the attention away from what you are going through.
I regret even replying and carrying this on further.
If you've even gotten to read this far.
I hold true to my initial post to you. It was made with the best of intentions and caring.  Because I experienced the same thing as I was entering my career and because I take much interest in spiritaulity in many forms and would be saddened if you let such a normal human emotion lead you away from what you truely desire. Whatever that is.
I adored my Pastor growing up and still do. I have learned so much  and have been shown much understanding and love by him. I trued to think...if this had happened to him and he had those same feelings, Would I feel differently about him. No.
I and the congregation would have missed out on all he offer.

Certainly I understand from the perspective of someone who has been in the church and someone who feels a deep connection to something greater than myself even if it is not a formal church in which I pray.

I hope you can see through all the nonsense above and get to the heart of the matter and make the best decision for you and your future.

Best Wishes
TMA

[Toomanyadvil]

I'm sorry Wishforchange you feel the need to negate or try to take away the caring and intention someone else may offer to another poster with whom they identify and feel for.
There are infact old souls walking this earth in young bodies.  
Please dont not try to break apart someone offering support and caring just because you do not like them because they have spoken there mind to you and on your advice.
Afterall,  isnt that what your doing? Speaking your mind although it may be cruel or cold.
Please dont hold things against others while your doing the same things.


I am so sorry rambling to give attention to something like this on your thread.

[wishforchange]

However you decide to proceed, bear in mind that the previous poster is in her twenties herself, and from experience of her reactions to me in the past advise you to be cautious with her responses.  That said,she may be identifiying with you, but also has the same problems.  Do as your mentors and intuition lead you, but understand the importance of input from those who have passed through this phase in life.  I am in my forties, and only so because once I was in my twenties.  The same as you have a perspective on your teenage years now that you could not have at the time, so do older people understand what it is like to be be young.  In my twenties I too appeared younger than I was, suffered chronic pain, and was unaware of how egocentric my thinking was, as is very typical at this time of life.  I had a job with enormous responsibility dealing with issues I could not possibly understand, and as is again normal at that age too full of pride to admit it.  If you wish to stay within the church, then that is your choice or your calling.  But you need to then grow up very fast if you want to be the best you can.  Rather than blaming others for discrimination, accept that they have a right to use their own intuition to turn to who is best for them.  Other people's traumas are not there for the purpose of your personal development, and as long as you can accept this you can grow.  One day, all being well, you wll be an older woman yourself, and will understand my perspective.  I was not born in my forties, I have lived a life to get here - there are no shortcuts.

[Toomanyadvil]

I usually read this forum because my life has changed so drastically from Chronic Pain and being only 28 have wondered what that means for me transitioning into my thirties and so on...
I van idetify with you Rambling, I have always fely like a  much older soul than my face tells. My career is mostly dominated by those who are older. I completed my studies very young and had to compete with being looked over. It was very difficult to feel that people were discriminating against me because they thought I didnt hold the knowlege or life experience to do my job properly.

    It takes a very special person to go into the ministry. I know it's not just something you give a try to because you think you may ike it. It's a calling and you got that calling because you are ment to be theer and help others. I dont consider myself religious but more spuritual but I do know that God would not have called you if you were not ment to be that kind of leader, spiritual guide or healer.
  
   No matter what we chose to do, looking inside ourselves for why we feel a certain way or why we do a certain thing never stops. I think your feeling is an extreamly normal one and certainly does not bode a lack of maturity or a sign that you are not right for the ministry. I dont feel from your explination that you were putting your feelings before the family. Only that your desire to be there for other and help is so strong you were hurt when they didnt seem to feel comfortable looking to you for that help and caused you to feel it was because of your age and lack of life experience.
That doesnt make you selfish it all. You know alot of people think people in the ministry should be so advanced spriritually that the normal human emotions we all feel shouldnt be something that effects them. That is not true. Your a human being and it is okay to go through certain feelings and look inside yourself as to why they have come up.
It's apart of growing and learning. Even when your path is in the religous arena.

What you described is so natural. It doesnt mean that you dont deeply feel for this family or that you were only thinking of yourself and your needs. Like I said above, I would think you care so much and want to comfort them so badly you were hurt they didnt seem to want that from you.

Do not punish yourself like the above poster is insinuating for such a normal human emotion.
With time and looking inside yourself you will be able to move past this feeling. But you've just started out and need to give yourself room to grow into your path and forgiveness and inderstanding for certain feelings.
Thats true for anyone in any career or life path. I would hate to think that someone would think so badly of me for feeling the same way in the beginning of my career when it was only the result of how badly I wanted to help and comfort others.

So yes, look inside yourself and be honest. Everyone has certain feeling that pop up in a situation they didnt want them to. Being humble does not mean being any less human.  Being humble is the ability to realize your feelings and working on them. Thats what life experience is about.
You'll learn in time to see yourself as knowlegeable and able as anyone else. With time the life experience will come and you'll be more confident.
You would not have been led to this path unless if you didnt have so much to offer others.
Do not beat yourself up for this or question your path. Just realize where the feeling came on and work through it.
I would really dislike feeling that all Pastors and Ministors are so above and advanced that they dont understand human feelings and emotions or dont experience them.  
Aferall my pastor from the church I grew up in has 2 children and a wife. I imagine he has had to deal with a range of human emotions and feelings and still does. And I know he has refered to the beginning of his ministry and how nervous he was and the confidence that could only come with time.

After you deal with this you now have the experience to understand it if you are ever called upon for advice or support for someone else who may experience the same thing.

I hope you can see that this feeling or situation doesnt make you bad at your job or unable to helpp others. And I certainly hope you dont beat yourself up and leave your path over it.
Give yourself time.

TMA

[wishforchange]

Hi Sherry,  I like to now and again look at feedback from my responses so thank you for writing a response.  That said, I'm afraid I feel compelled to pick you up on your response, as it concerns me.  While I understand you feel you are perhaps an old soul in a young body, it is the way you are dealing with this which really you need to think about.  It was your comment about the family who were dealing with issues regarding discontinuing life support.  Regrettably you have here demonstrated where the relative lack of maturity lies.  This family were likely dealing with one of the most terrible moments of their lives, and I would have hoped that any spiritual helper would at all costs put their needs first.  You though cite it as an example of how age discrimination is against you.  Your calling, if that is what it is, is not about you, it is about the people you serve, and with maturity should come humility.  This family were not discriminating against you, they were dealing with their situation as they felt, and they felt you were not the person to help them.  If you cannot understand the needs of others over your own you are maybe not ready to be in this role.  This is harsh I know but I was somewhat angered at this example.  
Working with people you understand is not about stereotypes, not all young people are bubbly club-going sorts.  There are others like you.  You have to understand that you may be serious, you may have had many hard experiences in your early life, and you may be more worldly than people give you credit for, but you are not yet out of your twenties.  You have not personally dealt with the issues that ageing brings to us all, and while you can sympathise, you cannot confidently advise those who are struggling with this phase of life.  Even less so if you are hung up about being discriminated against.  When people are faced with dying loved ones, terminal illness, disability, debt, failed long-term relationships, children who have left them or turned to crime or died, irreversible disease, redundancy, retirement....some of  the potential items that come in the second part of life, they are not looking at the credentials of the pastor they turn to, they are looking for someone they can connect with.  That you seem not to have grasped this makes me question your calling too.  Do look within yourself, your motivations, whether you are on this path to prove yourself or to help others.  You have chosen a religious life, and this is only a path for the humble.  If it is personal ambition that drives you, then maybe work in business.  Be honest with yourself.

[RamblingSeminarian]

Thank you both for your comments.  Sorry for the delay, things have been very busy here this week.  You're both right that you can't force experience and wisdom.  Maybe some of the frustration that I feel is because even though I may be young (and unfortunately at this point in life look years younger than I am), I simply don't "fit in" or feel most comfortable with people my age.  I didn't have a "traditional" path in life, and I don't share much in common with most 20-somethings.  I grew up taking on much more responsibility than most, taking care of my grandfather until he died and then fighting the legal system for emancipation (and winning) at age 15.  I work hard and always have....I'm not into the social scene much, I don't watch TV....so when I'm only around people my own age, I don't relate to them.  I'm not your bubbly energy-filled youth pastor kind of person, I'm more like your 50 year old pastor stuck in the body of a 26 year old.  I guess right now I really don't know.  Today I had something happen that I think bring to light what I was concerned about when I wrote the first post.  Today another intern and myself were paged to a code--for a family that had decided to discontinue life support.  My fellow intern has the same amount of chaplaincy training that I have had...educationally, I've studied longer....but she's a second career student...and the family basically passed right over me.  I think I have some thinking/soul-searching to do.

Thanks for your comments!

[Jason Greenberg, Ph.D.]

Hi Sherry,

I first want to thank you for your post.  I agree with wishforchange's assertion that you cannot force yourself to have the wisdom and experience that comes with age, and I think that wishforchange was sensing in your post an uneasiness or doubt about your credibility as a clergyperson.   I get the sense you are more concerned that others will doubt your credibility or legitimacy as a spiritual leader than others may be (e.g., your pastoral counseling professor.  One way to combat this, if you choose, is to work with a younger population as wishforchange suggests.  However, if you would rather work with a congregation or other environment where you will be interacting with people of all ages, then you may want to examine your own doubts about yourself -- what makes it difficult for me to believe that people will value what I have to offer?  Of note,   For the clergy, as well as for any professional who is looked to as an authority, if the authority figure believes in him/herself, people will respond.  

In the meantime, I wish you the best in your chosen path.

[wishforchange]

I'm not sure why I'm answering this as I know so little of the world of the church, but on reading your post something did occur to me.  I remember when studying at university there was a chaplain there whose job it was to look after the spiritual needs of students, who were generally young people who had just left home and school.  The chaplain was a lady, and very young herself, definitely not much over 30 at the most.  It sounds like perhaps you would be ideal as a pastor for young people, at this stage in your life, and of an age where they could identify with you.  You cannot force the knowledge that comes with life experience and age on a young life, you simply have to live it.  When you are older you will understand things you can't possibly comprehend now, just from having been that much longer in this world.  As a young person maybe you need to use your status to work with young people, who will turn to you more readily than someone they may perceive as stuffy or like their parents.  Don't be in a hurry to get old just to get the job you want, your life is now, and you have a lot to offer as a spiritual leader now, it just has to be with the right population.  Trying to pretend you are forty is not going to get the best out of you.  Maybe look to work within universities, colleges and schools - with young people, or even with the very elderly, who love the energy of the young.  You are not middle aged, not yet, and that is just a fact.  Why waste time and energy feeling frustrated over this?  Use your skills as they are now.  Hope this helps.