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How do we know when the end is near?
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How do we know when the end is near?

My kids are at the ER tonight with their dad (my ex). He has been a severe alcoholic for 20+ years and was diagnosed 15 months ago with Alcoholic Hepatitis and Cirrosis (cirrhosis) of the liver. He was told then that if he quit drinking, he had approx 2 years to live. He continued to drink heavily until 3 days ago, when he became too sick to drink. He has lost 40+ pounds in the past 6 months, is vomiting blood and has bloody diarrhea now. His skin is bright red from his neck up, his legs are very pale and tonight his feet are actually black. He is having extreme abdominal pain and he is shaking badly. His BP is very high and his pulse is 125+. The ER doctors are running blood tests and a CT scan now. They suspect "alcoholic pancreatitis" but are not explaining anything. The kids called me from the hospital, asking me to do internet research. They need some definite answers. We all know he is dying, but we have no idea if he is looking at days, weeks or months left. Can you help?
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The blood test they are doing now will help them determine the condition of the liver and if he is diabetic. The CT scan will tell them the severity of his cirrhosis and the condition of  his pancreas. It will also let them know if he has gall stones. This would be a large indicator that he has alcoholic pancreatitis. The blood you mentioned, weight loss, continuing to drink and the severe abdominal pain are all symptoms of this.
The high blood pressure is the reason for his face and neck area being all red. Also keep in mind he is an alcoholic who hasn't had a drink in three days so I'm sure he may be having some tough withdrawals. I am hesitant to say anything more since I’m far from qualified.
I imagine by now you already know the test results and I’m quite certain the doctor will answer the questions you all have.  God bless you and your family.
Randy
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Tinker, I meant to tell you that if you still find yourself searching for more answers tonight You might also try posting in a group called "Liver Disorders" and ofcoarse here as well.

Randy
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Thank you Randy! He was told that if he goes home, he would die within a few days (whether he drinks or not). He was admitted and will be going through detox in the hospital. The doctor told him that as sick as he is, the detox may kill him but it is his only hope. He is getting fluids and nutrition through IVs, blood transfusions, Morphine for pain and Adivan for anxiety. This is the very first time that he has ever been through detox (actually the first time he ever WANTED to quit), so the kids are praying that it works. He has been drunk for most of their lives. If he makes it through the detox process, then we will find out how much of the liver and pancreas is permanantly damaged. If he only has weeks or months left to spend with the kids, I desperately hope he can spend it sober!
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Good morning Tinker,
I imagine it must've been a long night for you. Thank you for the update. How much a day has he been drinking? He should be just fine going through the detox since he has already made it through the first three days. Normally the most difficult and dangerous part of detox will last about a week. The blood transfusions will rid the toxins from the blood stream that the liver has failed to be able to filter. He may be acting confused and not know where he is. This will be due to the toxins and the morphine. The morphine is very bad for the liver but it's necessary for the pain and to help the with the detox. They probably already know the severity of the liver damage. The liver is amazingly resilient but to keep pushing it for 15 months after diagnosis I’d say that was a bad decision. He really needs to learn from this if it is not already too late. Although he had that chance when he was diagnosed.

This is kind of strange but it was 15 months ago that I was diagnosed with end stage cirrhosis. 3-23-10. I stopped drinking right away and my recovery has been amazing. I am very determined to live a normal life expectancy. Whatever that may be ha ha

I hope the best for your family. If you for any reason at all would like to talk please feel free to send me a private message (PM or email)

Randy
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He has been averaging 10-14 beers a day for many years. He is finally scared enough to want to stop. He just turned 46, and our kids are 23 and 19. The detox is going better than I expected. He is scratching himself all over, and says he feels like there are bugs crawling on him. He is also shaking really bad now. He hasn't started acting confused yet, but the nurse warned us that he might. They are "testing" him every 4 hours by asking him his name, where he is, president's name, etc. So far so good. He isn't sleeping at all, so they are planning to work on that tonight. They have a separate IV ready, in case he needs to be "chemically restrained". They are prepared for him to get confused and hostile, and the doctors and nurses are great. They are warning us about all the possibilities, so it doesn't scare us. The kids are taking turns staying with him, so he has lots of family support. All the anger disappeared overnight. Now there is only love and concern. Blame is pointless now.
You are a very strong, smart man to stop drinking immediately after your diagnosis. He spent the entire 15 months in denial: The doctor didn't know what he was talking about. He certainly can't say that anymore.
I'm so glad you recovered so well. Thank you for being so kind!
Tina
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Tina,
The itching is very common for people with cirrhosis especially end stage. The reason for this is unknown although there are speculations but nothing has been proven. "unknown" is a word you will hear frequently when it comes to cirrhosis. Much more research is needed. Vitamin C and B-complex can be very helpful for patient with cirrhosis. Neither will harm the liver. The B-complex or B3 will help with the itching and the vitamin C is very good to strengthen the walls of the blood vessels. These is really important to cirrhotic patients that have "Varices". I'm sure he probably already has these so you might learn about them later. It’s likely they will soon perform an endoscopy (upper GI) to determine the damage he has done to his stomach and throat. This is how they will find the Varices (blood vessels on the verge of bursting).  

The shaking is normal also, it is just part of the detox he is going through. It will become less and less.

With the blood transfusion they gave him it cleaned all the toxins from his blood but it likely that the ammonia and manganese will be present soon enough and you will find out how it effects his brain giving him Hepatic Encephalopathy (causing the confusion and memory problems along with many more symptoms). Not all cirrhotic patients are effect by the toxins and again this is unknown. This not curable without transplant but in many cases it is manageable. Such as mine. Diet and exercise will become very important for him. His doctor will let him know what types of vitamins he should be taking.

I really hope he has another chance at recovery and if he does It’s important the your kids understand that with cirrhotic patients they normally look very normal and healthy but on the inside they can have a lot of severe pain and life threatening problems. So he can go from looking and acting completely normal one day and very quickly be gone.

This is a very friendly and helpful group. So maybe you might show him around as the people here are deal with their own sobriety while offering support and very good suggestions. There is a lot for him to learn. For yourself you might also take a look around someday when you have time for some group topic that interest you and for future reference the Doctor forums are here for you to use free of charge. Again God bless you and your family Tina.
Randy
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Randy,
A quick update...He is sleeping a lot today, but still has no confusion yet. He is in a lot of pain, and the doctors are being stingy with the Morphine because of the liver damage.
We got some great news this morning. They have been doing regular blood tests since Monday night. The nurse was excited this morning when she told us that his liver enzyme level is finally coming up. It was the first time there has been an improvement. She said that means that his liver is not "dead". It is trying to heal itself. It was a happy moment, and he needed to hear that. It gives him hope that he isn't going through detox for no reason.
Just wanted to share the good news!
Have a wonderful night!
Tina
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That really is good news. Its a very long slow process but once he learns the type of life stye he needs to maintain he see its not to hard.He will make big strides and with every blood test see and feel the rewards of recovery. It's been 15 months and I still am making progress on my lab tests. This means I'm still healing. At this point it might be good for him to discuss options that will ensure that he will not succum to his desire to drink any alcohol once he is released. This is a must because if he drinks, he dies. There are no exceptions.

I am very happy to hear from you again Tina and especially happy to hear your good news. You are a wonderful ex-wife he he My ex would've just said "theres no hope for him" and that is that! Okay good night :)

Randy
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My daughter (age 23) took an emergency leave from her job as a CNA, and she is staying with him day and night. She had a rough night last night. His whole personality took a sudden turn. He became angry and hostile-to her and the nurses. He was screaming and cursing, for absolutely no reason. He even threw his pillows at them. Thank goodness he couldn't reach anything else! He was confused and not making any sense at all. He refused the Adivan, but the nurse stuck him with a shot when he wasn't looking. She said they may need to keep him knocked out to keep him calm.
He is actually going through a triple detox-alcohol, cigarettes, and marijuanna. I have never hated my ex. He and I simply have nothing in common. He chose to spend his life partying, while I remarried and raised the kids. He and I haven't been close over the past 15 years, but we were able to talk without fighting. As the kids got older, his partying didn't bother me as much. They definitely learned from his mistakes, and both kids are very responsible and mature. Our son is leaving August 1st for Marine boot camp. His biggest hope now is that his dad will be able to see him graduate in October.
I honestly have mixed feelings about his alcoholism/detox/illness. He did it all to himself, but I hate to see him suffer now. His drinking has hurt the kids over the years, but they love him so much. I only hope that he has enough reasons to stop the drinking. He did talk to the social worker Tuesday, and admitted that he was scared to go home. He doesn't trust himself to stay away from the alcohol. He was asking about an inpatient rehab center, and she said it was a possibility. I think he understands now that if he drinks he will die. He is scared.
Writing to you eases my mind somehow. You can answer my questions and I can vent to you too. I'm glad you saw and responded to me! Have a great day!
Tina
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Good morning Tina!
I am so sorry your daughter and son have to see their father this way. Also I am also really glad I can be here for you. I truly understand how hard it can be to be in his shoes and in yours. Out of concern for how my wife has been doing through my illness I have spent a lot of time reading and talking to other caregivers.

The withdraws can surely be causing some of the anger and hostility in combination with the blood toxins (ammonia and manganese) effecting his brain and causing the confusion. At this point they should be giving him medication to help his body extract the toxins such as Lactulose and/or Xifaxan. It is critical that they bring the ammonia level down since this can also become fatal as well. This is something he will likely be prescribed to take even after leaving the hospital.

As far as the detox he should be getting through the worst of the alcohol withdrawals. The marijuana has no physical addiction and for the cigarettes your daughter might see if they can give him a nicotine patch or if she can. As long as they say "yes" then they may even allow her to go purchase some if necessary. I believe the 21mg ones are the strongest. I would think the hospital would be more sensitive to his addictions but perhaps they find its better if he just gets it all done at once. To stop the alcohol and nicotine both at once is very difficult. Smoking also contains a huge amount of toxins for the liver to have to filter so he will need to stop. Each cigarette contains over 300 different toxins.  The avitan (lorazepam) helps control anxiety. It will slow the activity in his brain allowing him to be able to relax. It also helps control the alcohol withdrawals.  

Has the hospital discussed any sort of release date? AA is a wonderful tool used by many alcoholics to maintain sobriety. Since he has concerns about drinking after his release then a support group like AA would be the perfect thing for him. Using AA and the support he can find right here at MedHelp I have no doubts he can succeed. Getting started; Go to http://aa.org here he can find a complete schedule of meetings in his area. I can imagine he might try to slack about getting started on this so someone might need to do it for him. Once he gets an understanding how AA can and will help him then im sure he will become very self motivated to do this himself. As you know I have never been to AA but with all the time I have spent in these groups I have never heard anyone have anything negative to say about it. Okay Tina keep hanging in there your doing great.
Randy
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I am so sorry you are going throug this...so sorry!  I've read this whole thread in disbelief someone could do this to themselves.  Meanwhile I just placed my first post over in the other board "living with an alcoholic" as my concern for my diabetic/alcoholic husband's health as well - now I read first hand what it could do.  

This is very scary for you and your family I'm sure.  I'm glad "rpooo" is here with you offering advice and good support.  I don't have much else to offer because I am just seeing the beginning of all my current husband's alcoholism issues.  I wish you the best.
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Randy,
He has been on the nicotine patches since he was admitted. The cigarette craving doesn't seem to bother him until he gets agitated. Wednesday night was terrible, with the screaming and cursing. He was angry at our daughter for taking him to the hospital, so everything was all her fault. Since then, he is sleeping mostly all the time. He woke up for an hour or so a couple of times yesterday, and he was calm. The nurses allowed him to eat real food Wednesday and Thursday, and his enzyme level dropped. So he is back on clear liquids again. It was too soon. I am heading up there shortly to take our daughter some clean clothes and food. She has not left him since he was admitted Monday night. He was scared and begged her to stay with him. So they exchanged promises: She promised she wouldn't leave, and he promised to never drink again.
The doctors/nurses haven't mentioned a release date yet. When he is released, we are planning to try to get him into an inpatient rehab center. AA is definitely on our list of resources to use too. He will need all the support he can get. I hope he keeps his motivation after all this is over.
Spankyandrex, I'm so sorry you are going through it too. My hubby and I divorced many years ago, when our children were young, because of his drinking. I hope your hubby can stop before he permanantly damages his liver, pancreas, etc. I wish you the best too.
Tina
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Tina,
It sounds like they are taking really good care of him. Does your daughter understand that he sometimes isn't thinking clearly and is easily irritated. This is due to the ammonia level. Also realize that right now his whole life is changing and thats alot to think about.

I was an alcoholic for twenty years and when I stopped drinking I was worried because as sad as it sounds, I didn't really know who I was without alcohol. There was the work me and the drinking me. As it turns out I like me alot. ha ha My main concern was would my Wife still like me? Would I still be funny and be able to get her to laugh? Would I still want to do little cute things for her to make her smile. As it turns out I do it all better! She says she enjoys my company much more but she doesn't like that I can think faster to argue back with her. ha ha

Also you should make sure that your daughter understands how difficult quitting drinking can be. Alot of people relapse and if he does It doesn't mean he don't want to keep his promise. It sounds like you all have done a really terrific job in preparing all the support he could need.

I thought of something else last night is that he should obtain a copy of his lab results when he is about to leave the hospital. Then he will have something to compare future reports to and not his progress. Key things to look at are:
bilirubin
Ast
Alt
GGT (if listed)
platelet count
ammonia level
glucose

All the reults will have range limits next to them so he can quickly know if something is way out. Any talk of performing the endoscopy to check for henia or varices?  Have they mentioned if he has asities? When you see him today tell him to stop being gumpy pants. Okay Im wishing you the best still :) Bye for now Tina.
Randy
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My daughter was warned by the nurses about what to expect, so although it isn't easy to deal with, his unreasonable temper explosions weren't a big shock to her.
He remarried 12 years ago, but apparently his wife doesn't care for him as much as his kids do. She was angry when he was admitted, simply because he was the only breadwinner in the home since she is too sorry to work (although they were struggling even when he was working). She is angry that our daughter has stayed with him since Monday (lots of jealousy there), she is angry that I am getting regular updates on his progress (even more jealousy), she pouted, stormed around, slammed the door, and made a fool of herself while I visited today, and we just learned today that she is strongly discouraging inpatient rehab. She is anxious for him to get back to work, and is still telling him "It's your fault, you did this to yourself."  My daughter is furious, but we are trying to keep this detox period as stress-free and drama-free as possible. My kids really liked their stepmom until this week. Now they despise her. I'm not sure he can quit drinking without an inpatient treatment program. As of today, he seems motivated and determined. I suspect that is easier in the hospital than at home.
Health-wise, he is very skinny, has a weird yellowish-red skin tone, still shaking, and sleeping a lot. When he was awake today, he was alert and making sense. He has had several anger bursts over the past 2 days, and was mainly angry because he couldn't smoke a cigarette. Our daughter begged the nurse, and finally got permission to take him outside for a smoke this morning. He had 2 cigarettes today, and they made a huge difference in his mood. In between, he is still wearing a nicotine patch. He is much calmer now.
The doctor hasn't mentioned any of the tests that you did. They are still doing blood tests several times a day, but that's it. He has had several nosebleeds since yesterday, so they are keeping an eye on that. The nurse told us his platelets are low, but it was expected. His pulse is still a little high, but his BP is normal now. So maybe the worst is over?
I'll make sure he gets a copy of the last lab results when he is discharged. We still have no idea when that will be, but he seems to be improving quickly. I'm hoping they keep him a few more days at least, but I don't know.
Tina
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The blood test this morning showed that his enzymes are "eating" his pancreas. He is back on a strict clear liquid diet. The doctor also told us that according to his lab results, he is still squarely in the midst of the detox. He will not be going home anytime soon. He is sleeping a lot and the abdominal pain seems to be worse, but when awake he is alert and coherent.
He had/has no health insurance, and the hospital social worker helped him apply for emergency Medicaid when he was admitted. He was denied, because this is considered a "chronic" health issue. So we are scrambling now to find some type of government-funded program that will help with the hospital bill (and hopefully an inpatient treatment program too). He firmly believes he will die if he goes home.
Tina
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Hi! My mom (Tinker 35) told me about this blog that she started and the responses that she was getting in return.  I have been here since Monday with my Dad and have no intentions of leaving. I am a 23 year old nursing assistant here at this hopsital but all my time working here hasn't prepared me for what I am seeing now.  I guess it's different when it's your own Dad. My dad made a promise to me.  He said that he would go through the treatments and listen to the doctors this time if I promised not to leave his side. Therefore, I can't leave. I think now he's doing it now because he's scared and wants to because the nurse told him that he is dying.  I thought that my Dad was getting better until this morning.  They came in and told him that he could be here another week or two because his lipase levels are so high. Mom was right. They actually used the words eating his pacreas! So, they are not letting him eat. They also increased his morphine from every 8 hours to every 3. The anger that he was going through is for the most part over.  He's just scared. He also sleeps a lot. He tells me if he makes it through this, he is scared he will drink when he gets home.  I'm trying to find all that mess about rehab and all that.  One of my biggest fears is that we are too late. I'm scared. I'm scared he will miss me getting married and he will miss his future grandkids. But my biggest fear? That he will die in pain. This is such a painful thing to go through and it's hard to sit here and know there is nothing I can do. I wonder if I am watching him die or get better?  This stupid disease is the slowest most painful suicide I could ever think of! It's hard for the family, it's hard for the friends, but most importantly it's hard on him. I know that everyone keeps telling me to have faith and put into the Lord's hands but I am trying to be realistic for myself too. I am doing everything that I can right now to find help after we leave here, especially since he wants it! The other day he told me he was sorry for all the things he has put me through with alcohol. I have been waiting for him to say this every since I can remember. But I can't give up, not yet! This is my DAD and I only get one. I'm sorry I have been here for almost a week and finally found a way to vent and feel better.  I will be keeping you posted on how things are.
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Hi Tina. I am sorry to hear the news.  Do you know if they are giving him insulin? The function of the pancreas is to create insulin. Insulin is what the body uses to convert gluclose (sugar) into energy. Now they must be considering him to be a diabetic. Most cirrhotic patients will become diebetic (diabetic) sooner or later. I am very glad the hospital is trying to keep him there.

Unfortunately I dont know alot about the low income side of it all but I have some ideas that could help. Stuff I've heard along the way. I think a good place for you to start is with a local AA office for guidence. I know there are places that will provide rehab based on income. It will probably be hard to get much figured out this holiday weekend. So dont beat yourself up too hard over it and enjoy some time with him. Also if there is a certain type of medication he needs to be taking do a google search to find out the name brand of that medication and those companys usually have some way they can help. Someone will just have to contact them. As far as continued medical help I am hoping someone here will have some ideas. I don't know what alternitives there are.

I'm trying to think if there is anymore i can tell you about his condition but I dont think there really is other than right now it just takes time to see what his body can do in the way of healing. It's good they are testing his blood routinely so they can watch for changes.

Misty you are exactly right about cirrhosis, It is a very tough disease to live with and watch others go through. I have cirrhosis also and its why I spend so much of my time in this group attemping to help some change their life and the path they may be heading down. There is a lot of will power involved in order to survive with cirrhosis. We can hope he has went for help in time. You sure did the right thing by getting him to the hospital. Alcoholism is a difficult disease to live with and it makes it very hard to make the right choices at times. Your mom has mentioned about what an awesome daughter you have been. Your father is very lucky to have you well and your brother too.

I'll pray for your family and please post or email anytime you want or even if you just need to talk.

Randy
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I've been folllowing this thread and ur doing a great job in all of this!Social services in the hospital should provide financial eligibility for inpatient rehab if that is desired...different states have different requirements for assistance.....Misty...how is his hospital bill being paid now?
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It is so good that you can be there for your father,He really needs the reassurance right now.
My Brother-in-law is fighting the same thing at the moment and you're right it is horrible to watch them suffer.
Keep talking to everyone here and we'll be as much support as we can.
Remember to look after yourselves as well while you go through the stress of the unkown.

Thinking of you and your family-God Bless you all

Denise
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I know this is so painful and hard for you to sit back and watch this and not be able to do anything to make your dad better.  I had a different situation with my dad, he had brain cancer and there was nothing medically i could do either.  I too was told to give it to God and all of that.  The most important thing i got from my experience was finally connecting with my dad.  The time we spent together is so sacred to me.  You are a power of strength to him now and he finds comfort in that.  The time you 2 spend now is something noone will ever be able to take away from you.  Give him a kiss and tell him you love him~~~sara
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Randy- Today when the doctor came in she said something about the increase risk of diabetes. However they are not checking his sugar or giving him insulin. He is taking a lot of fluids, protonix, ativan, morphine, and now ambien because he is having trouble sleeping all the way through the night.  He seems to take "naps" all night and all day.  I have a ton of phone calls to make because I found so many resources online today to help me get my Dad into rehab. It helps that he wants to go! He keeps telling me that he scared he will drink when he goes home. I'm starting to realize that to completely quit drinking basically means to change your whole life. All of his friends drink and I honestly don't know what he would be like if he wasn't drinking.  It's not that he always drunk, he just ALWAYS has a beer. He actually drinks on his lunch break at work. He admitted today that he typically drink 10-24 cans of beer a day and has been drinking for about 30 years. I will check into AA but I am wondering if I find a place that could help him with in patient if it would be best for me. Also, I wanted to ask you a personal question and I understand if you don't feel comfortable answering. How many times did you try to quit drinking before you actually did? My dad has tried many times before and obviously never succeeded.  If your wife told you this is your last chance and if you drank again she would never be there again for you how would you have felt about her? Do you as a former alcoholic feel like that is the wrong thing to do? I'm thinking of the possibilities of him drinking again. He said something today that got to me. He said "well if the doctors keep telling me I'm dying, then what is the point in going through all this to quit drinking? Shouldn't they be more concerned about me being at home and spending my last days doing what I want to do and being with my family?"  What if he DID drink again? Randy, I don't know if I can go through this again. I don't want to watch my dad commit suicide and that scares me. Do you have any personal advice about that since how you were on the other end? I don't want to hurt him but I want to be able to take care of me too. Am I selfish?
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Right now the hospital bill is still under patient out of pocket.  I am working my butt off to try to get emergency medicaid.  I feel like that is what it is there for.  We have been here since Monday and I have seen a social worker one time.  The only thing that she really wanted to talk about was disability.  I will let you know what they say when I can get her to come back to the room (I have requested several times and I finally let the nurse know that she needs to call someone else if the last one won't be coming back).
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Thank so much! Though I don't know who you, the people in this group have made me feel like I am not alone.  I need this group. I have been using it almost like a personal journal and it has become important to me.  I am using my aunt's laptop here at the hospital but she will be taking her laptop back because she needs it.  My mom is actually bringing me a laptop just so I can keep posting here. I think she sees this is important to me and it really is! My biggest concern now is making sure that he is ok. I need him here in my life because there are important things that will happen later in mine and my brother's life that we need him for! I haven't left this hospital not one time since Monday and I don't want to leave because I promised I wouldn't. I'm just scared. I am trying so hard to be postive and not cry in front him right now.  I don't want to bring him down or give him anymore negativity in his life right now. He has so much going through his head.  Dad asked me tonight if I thought he was going to die trying to get better. I lost it. I told him I didn't know but that I would be right here. I actually asked him tonight if there was anything that he wanted to do before he died.  Since being here this week, I learned my dad wants to be creamated. He is so willing to talk about "the end" that it scares me. It's important to know these things but it's a lot to take in.  I don't expect a miracle, but I won't say I haven't prayed for one.  I made sure to tell him tonight that I was his biggest fan! :-)
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I'm so sorry to keep bothering you but I came up with another question...

Today the doctor brought me my FMLA (family medical leave act) papers. I am taking off of work for this right now. On the papers it says that the approximate discharge date for him is July 12th. That is a lot longer than I though, but I am thankful for it.  But, on the papers it says that he will need help from the family because we should expect to see approx. 4 flare ups every 3 months lasting for about 7-14 days. Do you have "flare-ups" and if so, what exactly does this mean?
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Good morning Misty,
It looks like you haven't slept all night. Remember to take good care of yourself to. Do your best to rest whenever you can. Sleep when he sleeps if thats what you need to do. As far as testing your dads sugar it is tested every time they take a blood test. On the test towards the top it reads glucose this tells them what his sugar is. Since they haven't been giving him insulin then that means his pancreas is performing well enough to make the amount of insulin he needs. All the fluids they are giving him is really good for him. During detox and with liver problems all the fluids will help rid the toxins from his body while also keeping him hydrated.

I am really glad you have found so many resources to get your dad into rehab. You have already done everything you need to do. Your have been there for him night and day. That alone is more than anyone could ask. He sure knows that you love him very much. Now it is his turn to show some effort. Remember he was diagnosed 15 months ago with cirrhosis. Purely out of coincidence so was I. My doctor made it very clear to me as I am sure your fathers doctor did also that if I continue to drink I will die. Everybody knows that cirrhosis is a terminal illness. There are no exceptions. So I don't know why he would continue to drink past that point.

Misty I don't mind you asking me anything you like, but the only reason I would be hesitant to answer is because I would never want you to compare the choices I made to the choices your father has. Misty you are very far from being a selfish person! Unfortunately in my opinion Your father has been commiting suicide since his diagnosis. He needs a kick in the pants and be told to stop feeling sorry for himself and start thinking about others! It seems to me that since he was diagnosed his alcoholism has got him only thinking about himself. Enough is enough though right, what about you and every-body else. This has all been brought on because of his weakness just as I brought it on my self too! At some point you have to accept that it is all your own fault and do what is necessary.

This was the first time I ever tried to quit drinking. When I quit I did it because I knew my wife needed me and so did my two daughters who are 16 and 20. In three days time I went from drinking 23 beers a day to 0. I had very few withdrawals and I quit without the help of rehab, AA or medication. I've never drank since and I never will. My wife has been pretty happy with the extra $600 a month I was spending. I think about it now and I think about all the nice cars and trucks I could of had! Grrr.. ha ha

I have never heard of flare-ups before so that may be something you need to ask at the hospital. Thanks for writing and talking to me. As always feel free to write anytime. Remember you are in no way being selfish at all! You just want your dad and I say he's a lucky guy! I have been praying for you all and I wish you the best.

Randy
p.s. there is a post I wrote a while back, its my take on a feel things about cirrhosis. Its in this group and its called elevated liver enzymes Part two
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It's okay to cry in front of your dad Misty.  I too held back the tears as i felt i had to be the strong one for my dad and i didnt want him to feel bad, in reality he already did.  Talk with him when he brings things like death up.  I know it is very uncomfortable but it is very important.  I would also talk about what to do when he gets out of the hospital.  His situation is very critical but he can do some living with the time he has left. Talk with him about what he would like to do, maybe fishing or going to a game, something like that.  I remember reading the newspapers in the morning and i decided to kill some time and try the crossword puzzles in the paper.  I didnt know half the answers but my dad did!!  It took our minds off what was going on for a short time.

Now for you......You need to take care of yourself during this time also.  Sleep is important along with nutrition.  Read up on all you can about what is going on with him, write down the questions you have for the doctor or nurses.  Keep posting here and lean on us, that is what we are here for.           sara
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Hey! I wanted to make sure that I told everybody that we talked to the doctor today and what she said.  She said that my Dad's lipose levels had gone back down. They are still not where they are supposed to be but they are improving. She said that she was going to allow him to try to eat today but it has to be small portions and a low fat diet.  Randy, I asked the doctor again today what exactly these "flareups" are about. She told me that the liver can take years and years of abuse and it will do it's best to repair itself. However, the pancreas is an organ that is never meant to be destroyed. She said that the pancreas will try realy hard to fix itself and it would take a LONG time but that it just may never do it.  A lot of what he has done to himself if permanant. But she finally told us what was really going on here. If he quits drinking from here on out...the "assault" (that's what she called it) that he keeps doing to his organs will stop. Although he has damage that will always be there she says that he could have YEARS left to live!!!!!!!!! However, he drinks, just like you said, he dies. The way she put it was "your life is in your hands now." From the way that she was talking, I'm wondering if we will be going home soon. I'm glad he is here, but I miss my home. I told Dad that when we get out of here, if he even takes a swallow of another drink, don't call me for support. I have been going through this forever with him and I just can't do it anymore. You're right! I have to take care of me. He knows this is my last straw before I draw the line. I will be the most supportive person that I can throughout this and as long as the alcohol stays out of his mouth, I will continue to be. I don't know very many people that would stay here for about a week already all day and all night. I literally have not left the hospital property! But, I HAVE done everything that I can do, and now it is his turn to prove he can do the same.  I am going to try to get my dad's lab results. I don't know if it helps but I can post them on here. You seem like you know what to look for on those things so maybe you can see where we are at.   Thank you all once again!!!

Misty
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It is great to hear he may still have a chance at life,
I hope he can fight his demons,with you by his side he has got more of a chance,I hope he realises how lucky he is to have a daughter like you.
Keep letting us know how you are coping and please remember to take care of your own needs through all of this.You need to stay healthy as well.

God Bless

Denise
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Thank you so much! It is very encouraging knowing that there is a chance here.  It will all be in his hands and if he decided that he wants to live and be here for a little longer then he will make the right decision. I have done everything that I can, but I can't MAKE him quit. I think this whole thing has made me look at things from another point of view. I feel like I am getting stronger as a person and maybe this is what the Lord had in store for me to make me a better person.  Watching your dad slowly go down hill will surely show you patience and trust. I would love to keep you posted on how he is doing.  I don't know if you are curious how he does when he leaves here and to see if he can leave the alcohol alone but I will let you know! I will let you know how he is at the next update. I'm trying to check this and answer as soon as I get an answer!!

Thank you so much!!!

Misty
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Hello Misty! I'm glad to hear that your father is doing better. I really hope he understands how lucky he is to have one more last chance. It would be interesting to here that lab result although I'm not sure how much it could really help you since those numbers will fluctuate for a while. The idea of him keeping the lab result is that once he has been discharged he will probably need to see a gastrologist every three months to see how he is doing. With every doctors visit he should obtain a copy of the new lab results and compare the difference. Since he will be taking his life into his own hands he will need to learn alot of things to better care for himself. So down the road he will also become familar with how to read his own tests. I have spent everday online since my diagnosis to learn about cirrhosis. It's a very complicated disease. The more you learn the better he can communicate with his doctor and also figure out the best ways to help himself improve. Each lab results should be filed into a folder of some sort for future use.

He should alsoo look into disability. Cirrhosis is a terminal illness and if down the road he gets hepatic encephalopathy he may find he needs it. Medicare and food assistance would also be things he can apply for with the disability.

I really am proud of how you have handled everything. I think you father is a very lucky dad! Your future outlook on his situation is perfect. It is now up to him and lets hope he makes the right choices!

MedHelp has alot of great tools for you and your family to use completly free. Here you will find alot of very helpful people that in many cases give the best advice. The doctor forums are very helpful too. Oh cool, I saw you just wrote! ha ha Bye for now. Dont forget to try and smile from time to time. Its good for you both!
Randy
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I am so glad I found this forum! I have been visiting at the hospital, taking Misty clean clothes and food, staying near the phone to let her cry, vent, etc. But BY FAR the most helpful thing I have done is pointed her to this forum. She has told me over and over how much better she feels after she types out her feelings here, not to mention all the medical questions that she gets answered. Her dad's doctor does not volunteer any information at all, but she will answer direct questions. So Misty just has to know what questions to ask, or we are all simply left wondering. Randy, it helps that you know a lot of  what's going on health-wise. On top of that, you have been in her dad's shoes.
To Randy, Sara, Denise and others....Thank you all for all the advice and especially for being so kind! Both of my kids love their dad so much, and I wish I could help take all the pain and fear away. What a great group of people you all are, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart!
Tina
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You have raised a wonderful daughter,it must be so hard for her to see her dad like this,she,I'm sure will grow from this experience.I just pray it has a happy ending.

God Bless to all of you.

Denise
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She is a very special young lady, and I am very proud of her.
I'm not sure what the ending will be, but Misty has definitely done all she can.
Once the doctors get him well enough to leave the hospital, his life is in his own hands then. I hope this experience scared him enough to change.
Thank you!
Tina
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My concern is him going back to the living conditions he was in before.  His wife doesnt sound real supportive.  Hopefully he will find his way out of this.  Misty is a tower of strength for him so i hope he will feed off that.

I am very happy you both have found us here.  When i see things like this it makes me even more determined to stay sober and for that i am grateful~~~sara
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I totally agree with sara about your dad going home to the toxic and unsupporting relationship with his wife.  Very, very scary situation.  As you all already know, alcoholism is a family disease.  Every single person is affected by the alcoholic's illness.  Just as the alcoholic has to learn a new way of living, so does everyone else around him.  Not everyone is capable of doing that.

One word about pancreatitis.  It is an EXTREMELY painful condition that can't always be cured with gastrointestinal rest (basically starvation).  As the doctor said, the pancreas is a very delicate organ.  When it gets irritated and inflamed by overuse of alcohol or infection, it swells up.  The swelling puts pressure on the pancreatic duct and sometimes the hepatic (liver) and common bile ducts, which blocks the flow of bile and digestive enzymes.  If the enzymes can't escape the pancreas, then yes, it begins to digest itself.

Most people know that liver damage will eventually happen to an alcoholic.  The damage is slow to appear and easily ignored.  Most people are not aware of how serious pancreatitis can be or even that it's a huge risk for alcoholics.  Once an acute attack is over, the pancreas is that much more sensitive to insult.  Sometimes the condition becomes chronic which makes eating an incredibly painful proposition.  Diabetes is usually only a risk if a patient has lived for quite some time - even years - with chronic pancreatitis.  It all depends on how much damage is done to the Islets of Langerhans cells that produce insulin.

One thing that concerns me is that morphine is being used for pain control.  It is my understanding that morphine is contraindicated with pancreatitis because it causes the various sphincters in the pancreatic duct and biliary tree to contract and further impede the flow of enzymes and bile.  Check with the doctor on that one.

God bless each and every one of you.  I can't thank you both enough for sharing your experience and pray that it will help at least one more person decide to get sober.  
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I want to let everyone know that the hospital's WI-FI is down, and Misty has not been able to get on the internet today. I have talked to her on the phone, and I will pass along today's update. Her dad was allowed to eat small amounts of low fat foods yesterday, and the latest lab results show that his lipase levels are elevated again. Instead of putting him back on clear liquids again, the doctor decided that the elevated levels may be permanant. Of course the doctor didn't elaborate, so we are left wondering. Does that mean that everytime he eats, he is doing more damage to his pancreas? The doctor mentioned that she is planning to release him in "a few more days".
Misty has a list of phone numbers to call in the morning, to get help with inpatient rehab. Unfortunately, all the plans have changed today. His idiotic, lazy wife told him this morning that they received a foreclosure notice while he has been in the hospital. He was working, she slept all day (doesn't cook or clean), and she was responsible for paying the bills. Apparently she blew the last several house payments. He is upset and told Misty that he can't do rehab, he needs to go back to work and save his home. He and his wife have been arguing and bickering all day, and poor Misty is caught in the middle. She is frustrated and stressed way past her breaking point. She is feeling torn and guilty, but I believe she is going home later tonight. He is through his detox, and she never left him during that time. What he does now is his decision.
Misty did tell me that she would like to stay in touch with you all through this forum. You have no idea how much you helped her this past week. If her dad begins drinking again, she will be devastated. She will be checking in again either tonight or tomorrow. Thank you!
Tina
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Misty has done all she can do for her dad, the rest is up to him.  I do have some ideas for the wingnut he is married too tho!!  Hopefully Misty will find a support group in her hometown also.  We are more than happy to have Misty and you on this forum so please keep us updated on how you are both doing.  ibizan is a wonderful CL on this forum and allows us to be just who we are and talk about whatever we choose!!  Many times we get off the subject at hand.  We are a close knit family here and there is always room for more!!

Make sure you both take care of yourself right now.       sara
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I don't know about that Ibizan, she calls me bad things sometimes.
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So do the rest of us!!!  LMAO
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Hello everyone! I wanted to make sure that I let you know what has gone on today.  This morning my stepmom woke up in a horrible mood. Which as you know from what my Mom writes that's not very uncommon.  The doctor came in and let us know that Dad's lipase level just doesn't seem to want to go down at all.  They think that this is his new "normal" lipase level for him.  They say that the damage he has done to his pancreas is permanant.  The "flare ups" that they keep saying that he will have in the future is more acute pancreatitis that he will go through on top of chronic pancreatitis.  Apparently, it's going to be painful.  They saw that he will go home in a few days.  For those that have been keeping up with my story, you know that I have not left that hospital in a week and have been very supportive.  My mom talks about my step mom and I tried real hard to not talk about that because I have ignored everything that she has said and done because I don't want drama around my Dad right now. He can deal with all that when he gets home, but right now his job is to get better.  But I truthfully, just could not take anymore. Today, when she pulled him away from me because she was mad and wanted to talk to him, she told him that he would have no choice but to go back to work. She informed him that they are 3 months behind on their house payment and the house will be forclosed soon. Now, understand something....before my Dad went into the hospital he worked and went to school to get his GED while she sat at home and thought she was too good to get a job. When she told him that he needed to go back to work and not go to rehab she also told him he needs to quit school.  She does not work!!!! So, he told me that he would not be going to any type of rehab, he would be saving his house.  
I am so mad it's unreal! I have never imagined hitting someone in the face until today. I think she is the most selfish person I have ever met.  I'm still new at this "him getting sober" thing but I am POSTIVE this is not helping him in anyway. He has nothing to look forward to when he gets out.  I'm pretty sure being told you need to get another job and quit school would burn the normal healthy person out. But telling a recovering alcoholic this AND telling them they can't drink is just dirty. I really thought that there would be more support than this when he got home. This stupid woman actually told me this week that she needed to know how long he has left because she needs to know when to start looking for a new husband!
I'm writing this from home. I gave up. I don't want to stay there anymore. It goes back to the saying "you can lead a horse to the water but you can't make him drink it." I can't do anything else for him. I didn't like her before but I started being VERY angry with my Dad when he told me he didn't want rehab. That's the last thing I want is to be mad at him when he has done so good. That's one of the reasons I decided to leave. I want to be on good terms with him and my emotions started getting in the way. I feel like crap. I broke my promise. I promised him I wouldn't leave. While I sit here and write this, I wonder if he thinks I am not longer trustworthy since I can't keep a promise. I also wonder if he's mad at me.  When I told him I was leaving tonight he just kept saying "why." I didn't tell him the truth because I don't want him to feel bad. I just told him I had bills to pay and needed to go home. I just feel plain horrible. I let my Dad down so how can I expect him not to do the same thing to me? I'm so scared he is going to drink. That's my biggest fear in my life right now. And having to deal with all the drama he has when he gets home, it's only going to make it harder for him.  I honestly can't keep doing this. I can only be someone's support for so long until I have to take care of myself. I just want to know if it's normal to feel so guilty?
I would absolutely LOVE to be able to keep letting you all know if my Dad makes the right decisions or not. I am staying positive although I know to pick up a drink will be very easy for him. I want to thank everyone that has wrote me back on here. Although I don't know you well you all have touched my heart and made me feel like I am not alone right now. Thank you so much!

Misty
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Hi Misty, Im sorry I dont have much time to write right now but after reading your message I can not help to to tell you a few things. You have been the most wonderful daughter any father can ask for. our mom has told me about how great you and your brother really are and from reading everything on here I already knew it. You did not let your dad down tonight. He knows the real reason you left i'm sure. If he leaves and decides to drink again he is just being selfish because he is a grown man and well aware of those conserquences. I understand why you think you would feel guilty but you must understand that more than anything if he drinks again it had nothing to do with his and your promise. You are not raising a child here. It's his job to set the example for you. He knows how much you love him so therefore all the BS with this wife  and his home is strictly his and her problems to figure out.

The mind of an alcoholic can sure make a person do very dumb things just to get thier drink. He might actually see this as a excuse to get released and start drinking again and he could say it wasn't his fault. Really though it is all his choice and I hope he makes the right one. His fault, not yours.

I really hope you are able to stay in contact. Not just about your dad but you are a wonderful person so if you write or not im gonna email you anyways. ha ha :) I can see that you and your moms (Tina) posting have touched this group. Once again you all will be in my prayers :)
Randy
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Oh and Sarah I already suspected you did but Ibizan was a shock! I should of know when honey started coming up missing! lmao
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ok u 2...i saw that....u 2 have been doing a fab job here of posting being supportive and bighoneypoohbear u been there and done that so u r a treasure trove of info/help here!keep up the good work u 2....so glad to ahve u in this forum....my 2 top assistants!:)
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Sorry Misty, in my last post I said "our mom" ha ha I meant to say "Your mom". :)

Randy
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That's ok! I don't mind at all. I've given birth to 3 kids. They are 23,19 and 16 now. I've also raised an ex-boyfriend's 2 boys, even after we split up. They are 22 and 19 now, and the 19 yr old still lives here with us. On top of that, we are raising my hubby's 2 grandsons. They are 7 and 5, and we have had custody of them for 5 years. We are signing the adoption papers on July 12th! :)
So I am Mom to anyone who needs one. LOL
Randy, I really like what you said to Misty about how she isn't raising a child. I completely agree with that. Her dad knows exactly what will happen if he drinks. The doctor was very blunt. It is his decision. Nobody can make him quit.
I feel sorry for him though. He has nothing at all to look forward to when he leaves the hospital. He will be sick and in pain, trying to get his bills caught up, and dealing with his wife too. I know alcohol has been his stress-reliever in the past. I hope he can find a different way from now on.
Tina
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How can I get my wife into rehab without insurance.  And the "free" ones such as Salvation Army won't take her because she is too weak to stand up and commit to an 8hr work day.....?
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Try google searching rehab centers in your state. Call and speak to them directly. Explain your situation, and they will point you in the right direction. That's what we did, and there IS help out there for someone without insurance and no/low income families.
You just have to take the time to do research, since every state is different. I wish you and your wife all the best!
Tina
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So far, so good!
He was released yesterday from the hospital. He is optimistic, and following doctor's orders. She recommended energy drinks, and that is what he is drinking.
He has an appointment Friday with a rehab center to check out his options.
Keeping our fingers crossed!
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Thank God........Keep us posted.  How is Misty?
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That really is great news. I know its hard to stop drinking but its very exciting to start a living a new life! And also how is Misty?

Randy
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Misty is back to work and feeling cautiously optimistic. She is planning to join Al-Anon, and asked me to attend the first meeting with her.
She is trying to resume her normal life, while keeping a close eye on her dad. The relationship with her stepmom was severely damaged during this ordeal, so that doesn't help at all. Lots of stress and drama, but that woman won't come between Misty and her dad. Misty is still itching to fight her, but doesn't want to make the situation harder for her dad. She is a sweet, caring young lady but has a temper. I've seen it many times! lol
Tina
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I feel the same "itch" Misty does!!  

I think Alanon is a great idea for the both of you.  Let us know how it goes........sara
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Hi! It's been a little while! I wanted to let everyone know that I went back to work.  My Dad was discharged from the hospital on Tuesday, but I left Monday. It's amazing how much better I felt when I left!
Anyways, I have talked to my Dad on the phone everyday since he left. He has an appoitment to talk to Social Services about Emergency Medicaid and disability on the 20th. He also has an appointment with Daymark Recovery Services tomorrow.  They are going to talk to him about going to rehab and what all of his options are.  He told me he really does want to go to rehab but since he has to pay the bills, he may only do outpatient. I think that's better than nothing! I am so proud of him! He hasn't drank yet! He's drinking energy drinks everyday now though. The doctor recommended them because they are full of vitamins and he gets the ones that are sugar and calorie free. He says that they almost make him feel like he is drinking a beer! He also told me all the drinks he plans to make! Lemonade, smoothies, and Koolaid! lol.  Dad also has decided that he is going to keep the diet that he was eating at the hospital because it seemed to help the pain with his pancreas.  So, no more fried fatty foods! Everything is baked or grilled! (This is a really big change in my Dad!) lol.
As far as the other drama that was going on in the hospital...well I'm still mad about that! I have never in my life imagined hitting someone in the face like I have her! She is the most selfish, ignorant, hateful, cruel person I have ever met in my life! I have no respect for her anymore.  I cannot pick who my Dad falls in love with so I respect his decisions...but I will NEVER respect her! I could care less if I see her again.
For me? Well, like Mom said I've been thinking about getting into Alanon. My boyfriend of 3 years suggested that maybe I see a counslor or something to help me deal with this. He is worried that my Dad's drinking and now the constant worrying if he WILL drink is causing to much stress for me. So, I did a little research and I really like the idea of Alanon. At least then, there will be people there that can relate to me and what I am going to through. Not some counselor who says "and how do you feel about that?" lol. Has anybody on this forum being to Alanon? If so, can you tell me what you got out of it and what it's like. I don't want to go alone because I think the first couple of times will be hard for me emotionally, so I've asked my Mom to go with me. Though here recently, I thought it would be a good idea if my boyfriend went as well so he can understand what the family of an alcoholic goes through.
Also, I just feel like asking (it's odd though so I apologise)...while my Dad was in the hospital the idea of a fake wedding was brought up. My grandfather (who is a preacher) asked me if I would consider having a fake wedding if for some reason it starts to looking like my Dad wouldn't make it to the actual one. I thought it kind of sounded crazy! But, then again it would give him an opportunity to walk me down the isle which is very important to me! So, it's just something that was talked about...nothing serious.
I once again want to thank everyone on here. You guys have become my friends and to actually see that I haven't wrote in a bit and you guys are wondering about me makes me feel like maybe I could make a difference in other people's forums that are asking for help. I'm sure there are other daughters out there in my place that just need to vent! I felt so alone in the hospital until my Mom came or some more family, until I got on the computer and had you all to talk to. And I felt like I could say anything in the world and all of you would just listen. You guys are amazing!
P.S. I will try to do a better job at giving you updates about Dad!

Luv ya lots!
Misty
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I think you have a good plan and you are lucky in the sense that your bf and your mom are supportive about you getting some help with this.  Families really feel the brunt of addiction.  I am really happy to hear your dad is moving forward and willing to work on himself.  Screw the stepmom, this isnt about her and hopefully your dad will see the light with her too!  It's okay to feel the way you do about her as long as you dont get caught up in her madness.  Dont let it become your issue.  I dont respect her and i dont even know her!!  As for alanon.....It is a comfortable warm place to be.  They understand what you have been living.  They will give you good advice on what to do and what not to do.  They are a wonderful in person support system.  Go in with an open mind,  You may not always like what you hear!!

Be good to yourself today Misty~~~~~
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I wanted to tell everyone that my Dad had his appointment with Daymark yesterday. They told him that since he was 11 days sober, they did not think that he needed to do an in-patient rehab. They feel like he would do better at outpatient. Because of his low income, he can do it for free through them.  He will have group meetings as well as personal counseling. He told me yesterday that the great thing about this is that they have meetings everynight as well as everyday. So, if he gets the craving to drink at all, then he can just hop in the car and go to a meeting and it will hopefully make him feel better.  He is VERY excited about rehab!

So, it's been now 12 days that he has gone without alcohol. Which is absolutely amazing! He has changed his diet completely and is only eating healthy foods and drinking healthy drinks.  He switched from whole milk to 1%. He's also drink electrolytes to build his immune system back up (something that the doctor recommended). He absolutely REFUSES to eat anything that is bad for him. He is not drinking the energy drinks anymore because he heard that they were bad for his heart.  He also is refusing his medicine. Do you think this is normal? He said that he doesn't want to take his pain and sleep medicine because he is afraid that he will get addicted to it. He is extremely cautious these days!

Now, I do have a question though and it's more towards the people in this group that have quit drinking...Dad, since drinking has almost become paranoid.  He is now cleaning out his whole house (which needed to be done anyways because it was filthy!). But, he is throwing away anything that has not been looked at, touched, or used in 6 months. His reason is because that is the "old him". He keeps reminding me that quitting drinking is a lifestyle change and everything has to change. He is terrified to eat foods that are bad for him because it could cause more pain in his pancreas. He told me the other night he had some crab legs and shrimp that he steamed and he usually puts a beer in them to flavor them. He had one beer left and said he opened it up and the smell got to him. He said "I don't understand how I ever drank so much of this sh**, it smells like pee!" It was his first whiff of beer in 10 days. He is SCARED to drink. He also said that he will never do that again because when he ate the foods afterwards he could taste the beer and was scared that all of the alcohol may have not cooked out.  He told me he is using post it notes around the house (on the mirrors, refrigerator, just random places) about how he will not drink.  I'm not complaining...so please don't think I am....but Dad is a little different now.  He is constantly keeping himself busy. He has been cleaning everyday until like 2 am. Do you think he is has it in his head that if he stays busy he will not drink? It's even different to talk to him! Dad has never really talked about religion. But yesterday he told me that since detoxing was fairly easy he thought it was the Lord helping him out because he was going to give him one more chance. It's so different hearing him talk like this! He also is so interested in what is going on in my life now! He is constantly asking questions! He used to always try to get off the phone with me and now it's me telling him "Dad, I got to go." When he was drinking he would call me sometimes 6,7,8 times at night to yell at me over and over about things and each in each phone call he would say the same things because he didn't remember talking to me before. Eventually I would have to turn off my phone. He just sounds so happy! It's amazing watching this transformation in him! I'm still weary because I think it's too early and he could slip at anytime. I just didn't know if recovering alcoholics hit a stage where they panic that they might drink and do drastic lifestyle changes like throw everything away in their house.

Also, I was wondering if when you guys quit drinking did you have a problem with sleeping? He won't take the meds but says that sleeping is almost impossible these days. He "cat naps" throughout the night. He also has a new complaint....he can't quit eating. He said he eats all the time so he has a bunch of healthy snacks to munch on. Did any of you go through this? And if so, how long did it last?

Thank you guys once again!
Misty
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YES..i had horrendous problems w/insomnia and non-stop eating.....specially the sweets!ur dad  drank longer than i did ..i started at age 14 and stopped at 28.I am 55 now!REMEMBER we have damaged our bodies and central nervous systems for years...it will take time for them to repair themselves......what he is doing to alleviate this is good...many of the same things i did........and watching the caffeine intake.....i found a great cure for insomnia to be the AA big book...reading while lying down and i would drift in2 sleep!took catnaps too but sleeping for 10-12 hours at a time...this did decrease after my first year of being sober/clean!
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Also Misty he could be having problems with sleep due to the condition of his liver. Cirrhotic patients often have a problem with what they call sleep reversal. Ammonia is found in the blood stream due to the livers inability to filter the toxin out. Ammonia reaches the brain making sleep difficult. So while the brain is active the rest of the body is very fatigued and needs rest. Sleep is very important to cirrhotic patients as it will allow the liver time to heal. This is why medication is important such as Xifaxan and/or lactulose.
It's very good that he is eating healthy although vitamins are very important. He should be taking a multi-vitamin that does not contain Iron. Centrum silver is a good one to take. All multi-vitamins contain manganese which is also is harmful for cirrhotic patients with hepatic encephalopathy (HE). If he develops HE then he may need his doctor to determine whether he should continue the Vitamin but for now it is importantly needed due to his overall liver function.
B-complex is also great for the liver it helps speed up the process of healthy cell regeneration and much more. So this is another vitamin he should be taking. The foods he eats will give him most of what he needs but with cirrhosis everything passes through the digestive system more quickly not allowing a sufficient amount of vitamins to be absorbed. This is the reason for the supplements.
Milk thistle is commonly taken to remover toxins from the liver. There is not any medical evidence supporting proof of this simply from lack of testing. Some doctors will say it's a waste of time but it won’t hurt you while others may say it’s great and is recommended. I take it and my recovery has been going great. I don’t know if it help but I know it didn’t hurt!
Foods that contain antioxidants are great for him to eat. some examples;
blackberries, blue berries, prunes, rasins, strawberries, greens - kale-spinach-broccoli-Brussels sprouts-alfalfa sprouts, fruits also are a terrific source.
So things to avoid are anything containing a lot or Iron and fat. Red meats are also said to raise the ammonia level but again there is not enough supporting medical research. Of course he should also be monitoring his sugar intake. Cool-aid lemonade soda all contain high amounts of sugar. He should also be aware that aspartame is damaging to the liver so things like crystal light or sugar free soda are bad too. Hydration is very critical though and bottled water is perfect!
New topic, your dads recent behavior is very normal and to be expected. Recently I mentioned that "starting a new life can be very exciting" and his behavior is what I meant by that. After finding sobriety many alcoholics look at their life and are very unhappy with the lifestyle they have been living. Change is very healthy and necessary to get and stay out of the same rut the have been in for years. Even with the "friends" they have in their life.
Oh I just remembered to tell you that any pain medication can become addictive to an alcoholic. He has an addictive personality so these pills are a bad idea! I'm glad he stopped taking them. all pain pills are bad for the liver, even Ibuprofen, Tylenol. Pretty much learn to live with headaches.
Well I think that's it! just that little lil bit! ha ha
Randy
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I thought of one more thing he should know also. Do not eat before going to bed. It is very hard on the body to rest during sleep if its having to process foods. When you sleep your body should be allowed to rest and heal. He should not eat for atleat two hours prior to going to bed to allow for ample time to rest
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How are things going there?
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Hi Everyone!!

Today is Saturday..which means Dad is 19 days sober and still going strong.  He has started rehab.  He is still eating healthy and becoming closer to God. He and I have also become a lot closer. Now that Dad is not drunk all the time anymore he calls me and has time to talk about what is going on in my life now. He calls me at least once a day now. The best part of all this (besides his health) is that when I talk to him, he remembers it the next day. No more constantly repeating himself and arguing about stuff that didn't make any sense. It's now just a normal conversation! I can't say I got my Dad back because I have never seen this man in my whole life, but if I ever had to choose the "perfect Dad" this is definetely what I would choose.  It feels amazing. I pray to God he can keep going strong!
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I am so happy to hear he is still going strong!  Congrats to all of you on 19 days sober!!!

My dad was a recovering alcoholic and it wasnt until he got sick in 2005 that he and i finally had a father daughter relationship.  He lived for 10 months(brain cancer) and we packed a life time of memories into that time.  Enjoy everyday with your dad.  They are amazing, loving and so very smart!
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I said a prayer for him. It is sad the way we let alcohol & drugs destroy us.
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Update please!!!
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Dominosarah- Hi! Thank you for posting.  Dad is now 24 days sober.  He is doing amazing! You're right! It's unreal how close we have gotten. It's like all of a sudden he realizes how much he has missed and wants to make up for it.  He calls me constantly!! It's so much fun! He is still eating a lot and having a hard time sleeping.  Also, he says that he sweats a lot.  But besides that...he is doing amazing.  The neatest part about this whole situation is that now the next day he can still talk about what we talked about the night before....because he actually remembers it.  I am really sorry to hear about your Dad. I know that must have been hard for you but I am so glad that you got the 10 months with him! When I was in the hospital, and didn't know if this would be the end...I realized all the things that I would regret. The time I didn't spend with him, and the hate that I had for all the things that he chose alcohol over.  I'm over that.  I feel like I cannot dwell on the past because we need to move forward. He has already proved me wrong and I am so proud of him! I feel like I don't have to hide anything anymore..."misty with the drunk dad"....it's like now I feel like I have a normal dad with a normal life.  Although he still has a lot of health problems, he is trying so hard to do what he needs to.

itmeagainmargaret (hehehehe...ray stevens lol)- I wanted to say Thank you so much for praying.  I know that there are a lot of people that have been praying for him and all I ask is that people continue to keep doing it because it obviously is working! For him to quit alcohol is an absolute miracle! I never expected this honestly...but only the Lord can make the unexpected happen!!!

Thank you guys so much!!!!

Misty
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It great to hear your dad is sticking to sobriety,
enjoy every minute with him,is he still being hassled by your stepmom,because this could make it hard for him

He is very lucky to have a supportive daughter like you,

My prayers are with him from across the ocean.
God Bless
Denise
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Hi Misty! Thank you very much for coming by and sharing how things are going. Your father is very lucky to have you and Nick both! I bet he really realizes that now.

He is very forunate to have a chance at getting things right this time. I dont know much about your Mom but she must really be amazing too! take care and God bless you all!

Randy
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Wow!i love to read stories like this...so seldom do we see them but when we do it it so very COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!keep going Misty's dad!:)
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WHOOO HOOOOOO!!!!  I can't thank you enough for the update.  That is just wonderful news and I'm so very happy for you both.  Enjoy!  :-D
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Just continue to enjoy being "daddy's little girl".  We need to have that part of us taken care of too.......

Congrats to you both(mom too) on your dads sobriety!!!  Simply amazing and wonderful~~
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What a great group of caring, supportive people you all are! I am humbled and very grateful for your advice, prayers, and concern that you have shown for Misty and her dad.
I am his ex-wife, so I am not nearly as involved in this as Misty and her brother Nick. He and I haven't been close in many years, for many reasons. He and I both remarried, his wife has jealousy issues, and of course his drinking. We had absolutely nothing in common except for the kids. Before his hospital stay, I hadn't seen him since Nick's high school graduation (and he showed up drunk at 9:00am). He changed so much over the years, and I had a lot of anger and resentment that grew each time he caused the kids to cry. When he was admitted into the hospital, I visited him. Honestly, it was only because Misty needed me. I was shocked by his appearance. He looked horrible, and nobody knew if he would live or not. Seeing him that way and hearing the doctor reports of "permanant damage" brought on a tremendous variety of mixed feelings for me: anger, resentment, sadness, pity, etc. He did it all to himself, but there comes a time when it doesn't matter anymore what caused it.                                                                 When he was released to go home, I never thought he would stop drinking. It's been the most important thing in his life for so many years. His drinking always came before everything, especially our kids. He has surprised us all in the past 3 weeks! Both kids are thrilled. Nick is leaving for boot camp (Marines) in less than 2 weeks, and he is looking forward to his new sober dad attending his graduation in October. I am cautiously optimistic. It almost seems too easy, and I'm confused about why he hasn't had the urge to drink. He has told Misty that beer smells nasty to him now. I hope that the fear of dying is enough to keep him sober, but I was expecting this to be much harder for him. In the meantime, I am so glad that Misty and Nick finally have a sober dad. When he calls our house now, Nick actually enjoys talking to him instead of making up excuses to avoid it. My kids are everything to me, and I am so happy for them!  Thank you all!
                              
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I was congratulating you on being able to see your kids enjoying their time with their sober dad!!  I know how hard that is to see the hurt in a childs eyes.  It's okay to have reservations about him staying sober.  We are only 1 drink away from relapse.  Hopefully this was the bottom for him and he continues on with his sobriety.  Just for today he is sober and that is all we have.  I get very nauseated from the smell of liquor, to the point of dry heaving.  Can be a challenge not to lose my cookies when i wait on a customer who is 3 sheets to the wind!!!  There comes a time when we need to forgive the other person, not to let them off the hook but to let us off the hook, sounds like you have done that.  Stay in touch~~sara
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Tinker-Misty?  Come out wherever you are!!!  How are things going?
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Good morning! Misty has been working a lot, but I talk to her daily. She has been having some health issues lately (female problems), and just learned that she probably won't ever be able to conceive. Of course, that was a big shock. At 23 years old, she assumed that when she was ready and prepared for a baby, it would happen. We have looked at some online adoption agencies, but that is so expensive! She will be heading back to college next month, so her days will be filled with studying and working for a while.
On a brighter note, she is now officially engaged! My future son-in-law is a great young man, and I am so happy for them both. We will be planning a beautiful NC beach wedding for next year. She was so worried that he would leave when they learned she can't have children of her own, but he showed her! He is male, so of course he can be stubborn and he has a rather large male ego. But overall, he is so good for her! :)
My son Nick is leaving Sunday for Marine boot camp. I'm happy and proud, but I sure will miss him! He will be gone for 13 weeks before he gets a break to come home.
I talked to Mark on the phone earlier this week. He is still sober and doing well. He still sounds very determined, and he seems so much happier now. Sobriety is still easy for him, and he credits the doctor's bluntness for that. "You drink, you die-No exceptions". He definitely doesn't want to die.
That's about all the news from here for now. I'm counting down the days until school starts. I have one going into 2nd grade and one starting kindergarten. Both are boys, and they fight constantly. It's been a long, hot summer! We finally finished paying our attorney, and our adoption should be finalized soon. We've had full custody of these boys (hubby's grandsons) since 2006, so I'll be so happy when we are their "legal" parents!
How are all our new friends here doing?
Tina
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Sounds like we better get our good clothes out as we have a wedding to attend!!!  lol  I will write more later.  Have to get some clothes on the line and head to work!!
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Congradulations to your whole family! Everyone of you have great news to tell. Misty and her engagement, Nick and the Marines, Tina and her husband so many things to be proud of along with the adoption of the boys. Of course Mark getting back on his feet for the first time in years. What a great family! To me its the ideal perfect family. If you all ever make a TV show maybe you could give a shout out to the Alcoholics at MedHelp! ha ha

I wish every one of you the very best and God bless you all!
Randy
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My name is brad and my dad is a severe alcohol he has had a box of wine and a 18 pack of beer every day now for a month straight and had been a bad drunk for 25 plus years now he is in his last stages I think but mayb u can tell me how long u think he may have? He is rich and lives out on a lake alone and is very Lonley I'm his only son and he just drinks hardcore every day and doesn't do anything anymore and won't go see his dr or anything he was in the hospital last year for 45 days and almost died there got out went a week clean and has been super drunk ever since I saw ur conversation with Randy and thought you could give me any ideas on what you think about how long I have with him I think it's a daily event and that he may die any time
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My name is brad and my dad is a severe alcohol he has had a box of wine and a 18 pack of beer every day now for a month straight and had been a bad drunk for 25 plus years now he is in his last stages I think but mayb u can tell me how long u think he may have? He is rich and lives out on a lake alone and is very Lonley I'm his only son and he just drinks hardcore every day and doesn't do anything anymore and won't go see his dr or anything he was in the hospital last year for 45 days and almost died there got out went a week clean and has been super drunk ever since I saw ur conversation with Randy and thought you could give me any ideas on what you think about how long I have with him I think it's a daily event and that he may die any time
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Brad, there is no way to know how much damage your dad has done to himself, so only the doctor can guess at his time frame. I thought for sure my ex would die in the emergency room over a month ago, but he made drastic changes and is doing great. Sometimes an alcoholic has to hit "rock bottom" before they realize how serious their problem is. The lucky ones get another chance at life. I would definitely worry about your dad being alone though. If anything happened, he may not be able to call for help. If he is drinking because he is lonely, he needs to know that he is loved. Spend as much time with him as possible. That time will be good for you both!
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Hey Everyone! I am extremely happy to report that my Dad is 41 days sober and still going strong.  He is still eating healthy and learning to how to treat himself naturally without the use of medicines.  He has figured out that certain foods will cause pain in his pancreas and knows what to eat and drink to make the pain not be there.  He is still having problems sleeping but he says they are not as bad as they were.  He also is not shaking near as much!  He also told me that he is gaining weight which is a good thing because he has lost so much from all the throwing up that the alcohol made him do.  I am becoming more positive about this situation and I feel like maybe this really is something that he is going to keep up.  I was a little cautious at first, and still am a little, but he is proving me wrong everyday! He is delivering pizzas under the table and is in school for motorcycle mechanics.  He has told me that he has friends that have drank around him.  This does worry me a little.  He said that he smelled it and it smelled like horse pee and he never understood how in the world he drank that stuff. He also said that when his friends get drunk, and he is just sitting there sober, he finally gets to see how much of an idiot he was...lol.
Yes, I have been having some problems and have gone to my doctor who sent me to get some tests. The tests did come back that I have endometriosis in my ovaries and my uterus.  It's extremely painful. I am no longer ovulating. (Sorry for the men on here) I am now faced with the decision of having kids a lot sooner than I expected or to not have any at all of my own.  In order to have children now, I will have to take a series of shots to make me ovulate and then the possibilty of multiples has come up....and that scares me.  I am completely stuck. I have no idea what to do, so I have made another doctors appointment to talk to her to get an opinion and learn what my options are.  My boyfriend and I wil be getting married!!! We have been together for about 3 years so I think that we are prepared to make such a big commitment.  He is my best friend and I'm ready. Like Mom said, we are going to have a wedding on the beach probably around September of next year.  My dad will be walking me down the aisle.  I was always scared that my little brother would have to do it because my Dad wouldn't be here when it was time.  I'm not scared anymore.  I think Dad will be here.  And if not, it won't be the alcohol that took him away from this special time in my life.  Dad and I have talked about me getting married and he said that if we toasted at the wedding to Champagne or wine, we will get him some sparkling grape juice and nobody will ever no the difference and he can still be a part of it...lol.  I will be going to school on August 23rd for nursing.  I have 2 semesters left of pre-nursing and then it's applying to get into the program.  I am shooting to be in the nursing program in the Fall of 2012. Wish me luck! :-)

To Brad: I have no way of knowing how long your dad has left to live.  I can tell you that I don't know what happened in that hospital that made my dad want to quit drinking but whatever it was, it worked.  I have cried, begged, pleaded, screamed, cussed....I have done everything I could to try to get Dad to quit and he never would. Some people will tell you differently but I don't think you make an alcoholic quit before they are ready.  And even them, some are never ready. When I took Dad to the hospital he was bleeding out his nose, mouth, penis, and rectum. It was horrible.  His skin color was yellow. He had lost probably 30-40 pounds. He couldn't eat or sleep.  All he did was throw up this nasty green thick stuff which I later found out was liver bile. And he was in SO much pain! He hurt right at the top part of his stomach.  I stayed with him the whole time to make sure that he was ok and it was not a pretty sight.  I wanted him to know that no matter what I forgave him, and I wanted him to get better. I was told that it was extremely important to make sure that he knows that he has a lot of support so I would not leave his side.  Your Dad needs some support. I know it seems hard, especially with him still drinking, to be supportive because then you feel like you are supporting his addiction.  That's how I felt.  When I was mad at Dad for drinking I would make up excuses not to go to house because I didn't want to see him drunk or to allow him to think that I thought it was ok.  Dad actually showed up at my little brother's high school graduation at 10 am drunk. It was embarassing for him! Instead, when I would go to his house, I would try to go as early as possible so he wasn't too bad yet or hadn't passed out.  I told him over and over that the drinking was going to kill him. I even asked him one time how he wanted things done in the end because that is where he was heading and I wanted to be prepared.  I told him over and over....I love you Dad, I just don't love the things that you do to yourself and your family.  I seriously believe that Dad is one of those people that hit "rock bottom" and was able to bounce back.  I think you should visit your Dad often. Not only for him, but for you. If something happened to him would you regret not going as much? Make sure he is not lonely.  Only God knows when it is someone's time to go, but make sure that in the meantime you get to spend as much time as you can with him.  That will be important later.  When we were in the hospital I thought he might would die....and I began to think of all the times I let him down by not being there. Please keep me posted on how he is doing and I will try to get on here more to keep with the updates.  The people in this group Brad, are amazing. I wish I could meet everyone of them in person because when I was so down and upset and scared they seemed to make me feel so much better. For a whole week of my life, the one thing I looked forward to was for someone to write me on here! If it weren't for this group, I might have gone crazy! lol

Thank you guys! You are awesome!

Misty
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We could use an update here ladies!!!
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Hi Randy....you seem to know quite a bit about this sub. I will share some things with you and ask one question.  I was admitted to the hosp. on 6-9-13 with severe hydration, very low electrolyte levels, ascites and just plain sick. They ordered an ultrasound first and loads of blood work round the clock and diag me w- cirrhosis.  I followed up with a Gastro guy, Rheum, and my MD, totally complied with their directions, have changed my diet, done the supplements, milk thistle, exercise and abstinence. It will be 4 mos in a few . I recently had a full body ct scan and the liver, pancreas, spleen, gall bladder showed normal and no evid of ascites.
My question is, other than the obvious, what could it possible hurt if I had just one glass of wine?
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Hello Bella and welcome to MedHelp.

I am sorry to hear of your diagnosis and I am glad to hear you are doing well.

Let me explain to you how cirrhosis works:

Everything we ingest damages and kills liver cells but that is okay because the liver has the ability to heal itself by reproducing healthy new cells. This is part of its every day function. The liver performs more than 500 critical functions daily. When we abuse alcohol massive amounts of liver cells are being destroyed and over time the liver is unable to keep up so scar tissue begins to form. This is called fibrosis and in more severe cases cirrhosis. It is critical to stop any further advancement to prevent this disease from becoming fatal.

It sounds like you have compensated cirrhosis which means enough of your liver is still healthy enough to perform its daily functions. This also means without further advancement it is possible for you to live your full life not being shortened due to liver disease though it does not take much for your liver to decompensate and symptoms to manifest. Once enough damage has been done the disease will progress until your liver fails.

Having one glass of alcohol is what got you here to begin with. You know the pattern of alcoholism and how it works. None of us here ever just stop after one. Allowing one will only lead to more or doing it more often. It’s been more than 3 ½ years since my diagnosis, many times I have often wished it would be okay to just have a night of “fun”. Really though, would you even be able to enjoy it knowing what it’s doing to your already damaged liver? Gambling with your survival and how would you feel about it the next day? Be stronger than this my friend. You have made a huge change in your life, your finally on top probably for the first time in years this drink does not control any aspect of your life. You have done what it takes to save your own life, be proud of yourself it has been a long hard road and if you start up drinking again with only having one then you throw away everything you have just accomplished. It does not take long for a cirrhotic person that continues to drink causing liver disease to advance to liver failure.

Just ask the lady that started this post. The man the mother and daughter speak about in the above posts is sadly no longer with us because he was unable to find the strength to maintain his sobriety until he reached a point where it was too late.  

Sorry to go on such a rant over such a simple question but it is very important you understand the serious risk that you would be taking. If it were so easy to just stop after one. then why are we all here?

I wish you the best, take care!

Randy
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So glad to see you here my dear Poohbear!Congrats on the sober days!Such a better life indeed!Thank U as usual for the stellar feedback!
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I always stop by to see how your doing over here Ibizzy, I'm sneaky sneaky like that. Ha ha You really have some wonderful people here in the community, especially you! It's always great to read how excited some people are about starting their new life.

I wish nothing but the best for you my friend.. Cheers!

Randy
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Back atcha my favorite assistant!:)i know u llurk w/the best of intentions!
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