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Problem Drinking and Drugs, Alcohilsm
by Raj786, Jul 13, 2008 04:08PM
[Big Q ... sorry :-)]
I am very confused about the distinction between problem drinking, controlled drinking, alcoholism, addiction from what I have read here and elsewhere about such distinction, thought I'll share my situation here.
I have been struggling with drinking and other substance abuse for some time now and I am very confused about where I am, on the one hand I do have some amount (only just) of self control and I will not slide down after a point. I go to meetings and find others who have gone on much much farther than where I have gone. I am even made aware that yes I am an addict but not a hardcore one, maybe on the fringe of being a hardcore addict.
(A doctor dealing with alcohol and drug addicts since about 10 years told me this last week when I meet him at his out reach center)
I have more of a problem with drugs but even that I do not take beyond a particular line. To start off, I have been drinking for about 7-8 years now. (since I was 17 I think) I had 2 bouts with drugs also in all of this, the first time it went for two years and at around 20 , I quit drugs and decided that I will only use alcohol since it is a controllable socially allowed vice. There is no question that drinking caused problems but I did not have the same appetite for alcohol an alcoholic might have; I would often drink alone but I found it boring after a couple of pegs, about a maximum of a pint of whiskey or any other hard drink like rum. When drinking alone, I never drank enough to cause vomiting, total loss of self control, black outs etc. I would only drink to that point when I was drinking with friends (It happened occasionally at first but it did slowly get to the point where each week 1nce or 2wice I would be out drinking all night with friends who were good company to drink with and occasionally get in to fights and other hassles) I didn't enjoy drinking too much when I had boring company though. This is where I was about a year and a half ago, this is how most of my weekends were spent; getting together with my drinking friend and drinking and then doing our kind of mischief, the kind that amused us a bit but not got us in to trouble too often)
and then I hated it the next day because I would have the hangovers, feeling completely lethargic for all of the next day, stomach issues etc. I hated it in the long term as well because I would schedule the weekends to catch up on my reading, catch up with certain other friends or often to simply rest and get things in perspective after a week's work. But the drinking friend of mine was too pestering and would call me and lull me anyway, he liked alcohol much more than me I could tell, it probably had a genetic component to it I guess as well. (his father died of drinking at 31) So whenever I was able to stay away from this one particular friend and another friend I had at work, I could stay away from booze or maybe slip up a little here and there but not too much.
Then after a while, I tried opioid prescription medicines with an office mate and loved it initially. This is what I got hooked on to big time, slowly but surely I was doing different stuff all together, booze, marijuana, meds all of them. I was taking only this on weekends than in the middle of the week, then on some weekdays as well (you know how it works).
After about 3 months of trying opioids, I was doing them everyday, the use of opioids I can not control I admit. I raved like this for some months until the money ran out and then I did only the meds each day.
(but still I only tried the harder stuff like hydrocodones rarely and stayed away from the dirty ones such as doing opium itself or heroin which I had tried as a teenager.)
After using codeine everyday for about a year, I have actually put on weight, I still don't look like a junkie, I can pass of a respectable member of society everywhere I go. [where they don't know I use]
But then the downside is, that much of my time and money is wasted (I'll admit I have done both crazy and low things to get the money to keep me high) with doing codeine, when I could write a blog post or read up about things I am in to now, learn this or that, meditate, find spiritual peace, go to a gym, spend time with my family or do a million other things that I'd like to do, I go out have a couple of bottles of C syrup and then go to some place of solace I like and sit contemplating nothing of importance while chain smoking ciggs or listening to music. (at first it as on an iPOD I had which I sold and then my phone which also I sold later I'll admit I got there)
Recently, many a times, I have alcohol as well.
Coming back to A drinking, I see that I can still control it, I am content with a quarter or somewhat less amounts or maybe I will have 3 beers but I don't do more because then I don't like it, I only like how you feel after 2-3 drinks, when your perception is just changing and then you get a pleasant buzz, I in fact hate it when I drink to much and the buzz is overwhelming.
Now, ever since I found about the 12 step programs, I have wanted to live the life all of those NA & AA members live; absolutely clean of everything and serene but I have not been able to do that, Often I have the urge to get back to drinking socially once again, stay of drugs, just have alcohol in moderation but the trouble is I haven't been able to get clean of C. Finally, I'll arrive the question (which you might find stupid and excruciatingly redundant) but I'll ask it anyway:
Is it ok if I can get back to drinking in a controlled manner even if I tend towards problem drinking at times. (If I can manage it which it seems to me I can)
Drugs I can not have and don't want to have, but I still feel like being able to enjoy a booze buzz every once in a while. My mind rebels when I tell it that I'll be sober of all things till I die ...
I am very confused about the distinction between problem drinking, controlled drinking, alcoholism, addiction from what I have read here and elsewhere about such distinction, thought I'll share my situation here.
I have been struggling with drinking and other substance abuse for some time now and I am very confused about where I am, on the one hand I do have some amount (only just) of self control and I will not slide down after a point. I go to meetings and find others who have gone on much much farther than where I have gone. I am even made aware that yes I am an addict but not a hardcore one, maybe on the fringe of being a hardcore addict.
(A doctor dealing with alcohol and drug addicts since about 10 years told me this last week when I meet him at his out reach center)
I have more of a problem with drugs but even that I do not take beyond a particular line. To start off, I have been drinking for about 7-8 years now. (since I was 17 I think) I had 2 bouts with drugs also in all of this, the first time it went for two years and at around 20 , I quit drugs and decided that I will only use alcohol since it is a controllable socially allowed vice. There is no question that drinking caused problems but I did not have the same appetite for alcohol an alcoholic might have; I would often drink alone but I found it boring after a couple of pegs, about a maximum of a pint of whiskey or any other hard drink like rum. When drinking alone, I never drank enough to cause vomiting, total loss of self control, black outs etc. I would only drink to that point when I was drinking with friends (It happened occasionally at first but it did slowly get to the point where each week 1nce or 2wice I would be out drinking all night with friends who were good company to drink with and occasionally get in to fights and other hassles) I didn't enjoy drinking too much when I had boring company though. This is where I was about a year and a half ago, this is how most of my weekends were spent; getting together with my drinking friend and drinking and then doing our kind of mischief, the kind that amused us a bit but not got us in to trouble too often)
and then I hated it the next day because I would have the hangovers, feeling completely lethargic for all of the next day, stomach issues etc. I hated it in the long term as well because I would schedule the weekends to catch up on my reading, catch up with certain other friends or often to simply rest and get things in perspective after a week's work. But the drinking friend of mine was too pestering and would call me and lull me anyway, he liked alcohol much more than me I could tell, it probably had a genetic component to it I guess as well. (his father died of drinking at 31) So whenever I was able to stay away from this one particular friend and another friend I had at work, I could stay away from booze or maybe slip up a little here and there but not too much.
Then after a while, I tried opioid prescription medicines with an office mate and loved it initially. This is what I got hooked on to big time, slowly but surely I was doing different stuff all together, booze, marijuana, meds all of them. I was taking only this on weekends than in the middle of the week, then on some weekdays as well (you know how it works).
After about 3 months of trying opioids, I was doing them everyday, the use of opioids I can not control I admit. I raved like this for some months until the money ran out and then I did only the meds each day.
(but still I only tried the harder stuff like hydrocodones rarely and stayed away from the dirty ones such as doing opium itself or heroin which I had tried as a teenager.)
After using codeine everyday for about a year, I have actually put on weight, I still don't look like a junkie, I can pass of a respectable member of society everywhere I go. [where they don't know I use]
But then the downside is, that much of my time and money is wasted (I'll admit I have done both crazy and low things to get the money to keep me high) with doing codeine, when I could write a blog post or read up about things I am in to now, learn this or that, meditate, find spiritual peace, go to a gym, spend time with my family or do a million other things that I'd like to do, I go out have a couple of bottles of C syrup and then go to some place of solace I like and sit contemplating nothing of importance while chain smoking ciggs or listening to music. (at first it as on an iPOD I had which I sold and then my phone which also I sold later I'll admit I got there)
Recently, many a times, I have alcohol as well.
Coming back to A drinking, I see that I can still control it, I am content with a quarter or somewhat less amounts or maybe I will have 3 beers but I don't do more because then I don't like it, I only like how you feel after 2-3 drinks, when your perception is just changing and then you get a pleasant buzz, I in fact hate it when I drink to much and the buzz is overwhelming.
Now, ever since I found about the 12 step programs, I have wanted to live the life all of those NA & AA members live; absolutely clean of everything and serene but I have not been able to do that, Often I have the urge to get back to drinking socially once again, stay of drugs, just have alcohol in moderation but the trouble is I haven't been able to get clean of C. Finally, I'll arrive the question (which you might find stupid and excruciatingly redundant) but I'll ask it anyway:
Is it ok if I can get back to drinking in a controlled manner even if I tend towards problem drinking at times. (If I can manage it which it seems to me I can)
Drugs I can not have and don't want to have, but I still feel like being able to enjoy a booze buzz every once in a while. My mind rebels when I tell it that I'll be sober of all things till I die ...
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as far as it being 'ok' to continue to drink, we can do anything we want. the question is are we willing to face the consequences, and how bad do the consequences have to be before we decide they are too damaging. addiction is a progressive condition that left untreated or arrested takes us to institutions and/or the grave eventually.
i guess the main point is that for myself and anyone i know with this condition, the ability to use chemicals with any degree of manageability has become impossible. and it doesn't happen overnight. you are very likely to lose much more than you might find acceptable now. the fact that you are attempting to control something suggests at the very least a problem, and at the worst it's already out of control. additionally, many people go back to their drug of choice after consuming alcohol as it lowers our inhibitions. whatever you decide, remember there are people out here who want to help you and will, if you are ready.
Unfortunatelly, in the simplest terms, you're an alcoholic.
You have an addictive personality, lie myself, which makes us susceptible to not only an addiction to alcohol, but to most additions, such as drugs(which you know), but gambing, cigarettes, sex, etc.
12 step programs are helpful for some people and if you're really committed to such a program, make sure you have a sponsor to whom you can turn in your weak moments.
I've been were you're at and after 7 years of not drinking, I still get the ocassional urge. So understand, that it's a lifelong problem that you may have to deal with on a regular basis.
Michael(Jikan)
(I have always been a bit hyperactive, been sentimental and at the time I thought I had major problems because of things outside of my control and my using was justified)
only when the problems got very bad did I start accepting that I might be addicted to them. Anyways I know I am an addict but I know I am not an alcoholic because I don't have that much of a taste for it. I will try and get back to drinking only and drinking socially only. The only problem major problem I have had is that alcohol lowers inhibitions and I am likely to go back to abusing my choice of substance. But if I can get back to where I was a year-n-a-half ago where I only drank and no matter what stayed away from any other kind of drugs, I'll be fine, I'll try and get back there ...
sorry i didn't intend to get into black market economics.
it's not the substance, it's what the substance changes, disrupts, increases, or decreases biochemically. get yourself copies of the aa and na basic texts. if you read them and remain true to yourself, you might just avoid the horrors some of us have imposed upon ourselves and discover that life can be beautiful without numbing your perceptions. or you might do what i did and years from now realize that you wish you'd listened to the things you heard , the first time you heard them. there are alternatives to any problems or difficulties you may have besides intoxication. many of us die before becoming open to them.
After thinking about it for a while I was getting depressed that I can not enjoy even an occasional binge with friends for the rest of my life and then the train of thought automatically went to wondering whether I am not an alcoholic in the first place, maybe I was just a problem drinker/user and that I can learn to drink socially ... I won't try to go back to social drinking this weekend I am sure but who knows about the future, there are no guarantees with my kind of people; maybe I'll try to become a social drinker some time in the future, if and when I do try, I may not succeed or may even succeed who knows what exactly will happen in my life.
I can only hope that the higher power I have found in the program stays with me and makes the right choices for me and I listen to the choices he made for me ...
don't worry about the rest of your life. just deal with today. we never know what the future will bring and we're not guaranteed anything beyond right now. when i quit drinking the last time (and i pray it was the last), at times i could only commit to an hour or so at a time. the withdrawal was so horrible that i could only tell myself "ok-i won't drink for the next hour, or 45 minutes". and at some points it was minute by minute. after the initial shock to the system, most people can commit to that day. not tomorrow or next week, just until they retire for the night.
a friend of mine describes it this way, when someone asks him to have a drink with them, he tells them "not today, maybe tomorrow". then he always says "you know, in over 20 years i haven't seen one tomorrow. it's always today". and one day at a time he's been sober 20+ years. if we follow the suggested program of aa, na, or any other spiritually based plan to the best of our ability, one day at a time abstinence becomes a very manageable way to attain a life we only dreamed of before.
once again, best wishes and most of all keep coming back to this site and the rooms of recovery. there are a lot of folks that have "been there" and are willing to help--no matter what you may do.
"You'll find out" scolding doesn't work with me. I'm aware of all the rationalizations and ins and outs. I come from a family of alcoholics. What worked was somebody's suggestion to check out Women for Sobriety. They seem like the type of support network I'm looking for.
Years ago, during one of my several quitting pot phases, I decided to attend a NA meeting to see if I could get some help. I felt that becoming a lifetime smoker wasn't necessarily in my best interest, so maybe I should try to dump it before it became a problem. Well, that was certainly a mistake. I felt like a complete fool in that meeting, and NO I did not speak up. Virtually every person in that meeting had had their life destroyed by drugs. The usual. Ruined marraiges, lost jobs, estranged families, police records, you name it. And there I was, thinking maybe smoking was kinda bad for my lungs.
THAT is one of the reasons I started my other thread about alternatives to AA, because it IS important to find a good fit if you are going to stick with it. Not everybody is so far down the road, so desperate, that they will try anything, even if it doesn't really work for them. I'm not desperate. I'm concerned. One of the main reasons I drink too much is because I can't find a place in this world where I feel like I belong. Why would I seek help someplace where i don't feel even a faint sense that I could eventually belong? I need to find a group, like WFS, that focuses on the kinds of things that got me here in the first place, so that I can work on those, and that provides the kind of supportive environment that makes me want to come back.
Cigarettes are killing my mother, yet alcohol just made her act like a mean jerk a few times in her life.
If you go to an AA meeting that isn't nonsmoking, you find a bunch of "recovering" addicts chain smoking and chugging coffee.
And what about religious addiction? I've seen alcoholics turn into braindead converts because they needed another addiction to make up for the one they lost.
And don't give me bull about this being my way to avoid stuff. Long before I began questioning my growing alcohol dependence this question has bugged me. It's a big logical gap in the whole "addictive personality" gotta quit everything mentality.
And don't tell me that people don't use cigarettes and coffee to alter their mental/emotional state/numb themselves or whatever, because that is just not true. They are mind/body altering substances with very high addictive potential.
And if I sound annoyed, I am, because I've run into this blind spot over and over.
Maybe some of this other addiction gets worked on in the background, but you jumped right on my pot smoking, even though I am one of the least medicated people I know. I don't see a single thread about cigarette addiction, which, by the way, often has a very tight connection with drinking (trigger), aside from its own deadly addiction potential.
if i'm tied to a tree (representative of negative effects) with several ropes (representative of intoxicating substances--say alcohol, pot, cocaine and pain pills), and all the ropes are removed except one, i'm still tied to the tree. it's not until i'm free of them all, that i can put distance between myself and the harmful repercussions. tobacco, caffeine, and even things like gambling and overeating-- while potentially harmful --do not impair judgement and result in things like dui or actions that pose immediate threats to myself and others. by trying to identify rather than compare , i can honestly confront my demons, and take action to rid them from my life.
best wishes, gm
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance---that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ----Herbert Spencer
best wishes, gm
Smoking:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/159
Substances (I assume Mary Jane can be discussed there too):
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/77
My addiction is computer games (not substances)... I have to apply the one day at a time at times I feel like it would be okay just to log on and play a little... I'm sure for most playing an online game is not harmful and in fact a good way to spend time. It isn't for me... I could try to control my amount of time spent, but soon find I'd be up all night and for the better part of the day...
I guess when it boils down to addiction, I rather spend my time doing something that can potentially help others and make me feel productive (such as writing and posting on forums) than play a game, get all competitive and grouchy, as well as watch my self esteem and self worth drop if I can't make a high score chart... You're right the addiction doesn't always have to come from the supposed "worse" things... It can come from things considered minor or petty by society.
BTW my mom is a recovered (tobacco) smoker. I don't remember how many years exactly (it is well over 10 years I'm sure). I am very proud of her for quitting. She quit CT with lots of prayer and faith after developing a case of bronchial asthma.
'this is not as bad as injecting heroin or smoking cocaine' or 'a couple of drinks won't be that bad for me, no matter what I won't have any more than that and it's just today I am drinking, no more drinking till at least a week after this'
this goes on till the day you really know, know it in your heart that it's a lie, you use once and you are gone. Once you really know that you are a slave to using can you hope to stop.
and about cigarettes and coffee I am strongly for the approach that junkies and alcoholics shouldn't be bothered with trying to quit nicotine and caffeine while trying to give up their bigger addictions.
You see a hardcore junkie never cares enuf anyway, he/she won't brush his teeth, take showers, make sure he/she is wearing good clothes, how can they care about cancers or tumors which will come 25-30 years later (If the alcoholic/addict lives that long in the first place).
Junkies have never cared enough about their bodies anyway when they use so very dangerous drugs even injecting them
I have a Buddhist friend and once when I was taking about all of my bad habits even cigarettes and not just booze and drugs, he told me that ciggs n caffeine are ok really for me, according to him Buddha had once said that you should in fact not care about the small vices you may have because these small vices can save you from bigger ones.
Members come from all backgrounds, rich, middle class and poor but almost all of them have gone to extremes I can't think of going to (at least as yet). This is one reason I can't fit in completely in NA. I am also looking for a place where I belong but so far haven't been able to find one ...
I came here seeking info, got a little irritated by the "company line" and now I'm a troll. I'm going to go look for help elsewhere. I do appreciate the info about alternative to AA. Thank you and goodbye.
But one thing I can do is control what I do when I feel the way I do. I may get caught up in an anxiety attack/meltdown. I may not be able to stop feeling the panic, but I can control what I do, even if there's only a small window of time. If I must hit something, I can choose not to hit myself. I can hit something soft like a pillow.
I'm not sure how this plays here on this forum. I guess I'm saying it's okay for you to feel angry and upset. You can feel like we are out to attack you. Those feelings are okay, but you can cloose whether or not on a cognative level if you want to continue believeing what your feelings are saying. Somewhere I heard that I should not follow my feelings to judge what is right and wrong. (I think it's one of those Christian concepts about not trusting my own judgement over God's or something.) Feelings are unstable. They come and go. Sometimes in a bad crying bout all I can do is weather the storm and realize I'm crying just becuase I am crying. There doesn't need to be any other reason. Eventually that passes. Sometimes I have to sleep on it, but by the next day I feel better.
If I can't sleep I find it helps to write out those feelings, no matter how irrational they may seem and how silly and embarrassing... If I have to post it publicly sometimes I do, but then later may delete or hide such journal entries in my profile when I feel and can think better. That's one of the reasons we have journals on our profiles. You can set the privacy to just yourself, your friends, or for the public.
So try that out. If you feel we are against you, go ahead and write that you feel that way on your profile, though I do suggest that if you have it set to "public" please be mindful of the members on the forum, that we are in fact real people sitting at our computers and we do have feelings just like you. We don't like to come across and read something that may hurt our feelings, especially if we may be feeling down. By all means please be respectful when sharing your feelings.
I will be honest, yes I was trying to get under your skin a little with the troll comment and make you think.