Weaning and Whotnot

I have a sort-a alcohol rollercoaster over the past 30 years, but over the past 10 months, since filing for divorce, I've been mostly in high gear with maybe 2-3 non-drinking days between (I won't call them necessarily "sober"). Over the past month or two I've been on a steady 12-pack clip, almost always avoiding the hard stuff beside the occasional shot. Up until that stretch, I was continuing to exercise daily for 45 minutes. Until January (when I filed) I was taking Zoloft and decided to wean from that, which I did with some pretty amazing effects... All the positive I'd gained remained, and all the negative dissolved. Well, all except the one "negative" factor: Zoloft gave me the ability to not be hungover. For whatever reason I would have to have an 18-pack to feel even mildly ruined the next day. So in that way, it sounds positive but was a negative in that it enabled me to drink more...So it was sorta what helped me ramp up on the alcohol.

In any case, more recently the divorce finished up, I found a wonderful new girlfriend (who knows I drink but not quite how much), and I'm ready to hit the reset button. One of the first things I wanted to do was totally moderate the drinking, and maybe even cut it out for a while. I was aware of the dangers of cold-turkey, and did actually go to the doctor. He prescribed me Lorazepam and told me to go it cold turkey -- no mixing the benzos and booze. I asked him about weaning, and he suggested it probably wasn't going to help. The suggestion was that whether I cut down to a few beers before stopping or just stopped, the end result would be about the same as far as the withdrawal.

Well, I'm not always one to just swallow advice. It just seems to me that if you are in a burning building and can make it from the 12th floor to the 3rd before jumping out a window that the ground is hopefully going to hurt less when it arrives...I read around quite a bit to see how people were quitting, and did find some details about weaning in several places (http://hamsnetwork.org/taper/). Every one of the stories was about people who were drinking more than the 12 or so beers a day I was downing, and often mixed with another pint or so of something hard. Also, the sessions of these drinkers seemed condensed (people would drink heavily for a few hours, where I drank morning to night, never blacking out, just maintaining, and then starting again early the next day...). But most weeners talked about extreme symptoms from just laying off a little, so I expected the worst...  I also have exactly 0 family and friends close by as I work from home at my own business (currently with no medical insurance), and my family and friends were my wife's family... now obviously estranged. That means I'm here alone, and reducing any risk of bad withdrawal is attractive.

So I decided that cutting back wouldn't necessarily hurt. I decided to "treat" symptoms if they arose...and keep the option open to dial 911. I figured I could at least hit the 6th floor before jumping... When some symptom seemed to be suggesting "I want more alcohol" I would have a beer, but would try to realistically spread them out as much as possible. I checked my blood-pressure, which is a little high, but I expect that will abate when all's said and done with the reduction -- especially when I get back to exercise (I plan a light session later today). I went 12, to 8, to 4, to 3 in four days, with very little anxiety, and few other symptoms. As that went pretty well, I have decided to keep it up. My "last beer" was about 12 hours ago, and I feel pretty good... haven't had shakes or headaches during the whole weening, don't eat a lot but eat steadily to be sure I'm getting nutrition, but I am also (because of the doctor's suggestion) assuming the situation can change. I still have about 5 beers in the fridge, and expect to make them last 2-3 days...or longer. I might, for example, have just half a beer in the next hour or two... and when they are gone, it is me and the Lorazepam, unless things take a turn. But I'm hoping the weening has lowered the jumping point... As far as my difference in experience so far to the stories I've read, maybe their experiences had to do with their metabolism, or volume, or intensity, but the ride, so far, hasn't been too bad.

Now I realize that part of the "cold turkey" thing has to do with willpower, and that an alcoholic is prone to saying to themselves "well, just one more..." But I am also wondering if there is medical evidence that any alcohol in the system will help maintain the current GABA status as my GP suggested? I just don't want to get too optimistic about the results so far if it is unwarranted... I'm still assuming this might not work out as well as it seems so far.

On the other hand, the total ignorance with which people seem to jump into quitting (obviously not their own fault in most cases) is frightening. Science studies all manner of stupid and useless things (e.g., the temperature at which the brain of a rabbit with boiling water poured over its head will cause it to die), so why don't we know more about useful things that can actually help people? Maybe they just do the studies and then don't like to make things public because it doesn't make them money anymore? I mean, not much chance of making a mint boiling rabbit brains...

In any case, curious about any FACTUAL information about weening...

[ibizan]

Whew!there is a saying in AA "Cunning baffling and powerful is alcohol"!i say cunning baffling and powerful are the brains of us alcoholics/addicts!Have u ever been to AA?if u go be sure to pick up a great pamphlet....." A Merry-Go-Round called Denial"it sure applied to me 28 years ago too!

[enough_z_nough]

um, what exactly was I denying? I was wondering about the effectiveness of weening and you preach AA? Gee, thanks for the great insight.

[ibizan]

Not preaching AA.....an alcohol rollercoaster for the past 30 years is a long time for u to be rockin/rollin on!!well maybe others can come on here and give u helpful tips for weaning......if ur not committed to stopping drinking then ur just not and thats where ur at!The choice is all urs!Ever gone to a good substance abuse counselor?

[enough_z_nough]

I think you are making assumptions. The roller-coaster is up and down... Not every day and not constant over years. I could try and recount the years for you, but I didn't think it was necessary. There have been years over that period where I didn't drink...I know what it is usually like to stop when you drink a few days a week with reasonable enthusiasm (6-8 drinks 3-4 days a week)...But I have never had the "opportunity" to drink every day...And never so much. I tried to make it clear that the last 10 months were steady abuse...By choice, waiting for the situation to go away, and doing a little too much to enjoy myself. I am not having trouble NOT drinking... The beer is still in the fridge and I don't even care. I've got a reason NOT to drink now and there you go. Before, I didn't care. I'm not sure what suggested to you there that I wasn't serious about stopping... I think I described the whole scenario.

What I am concerned about is the result.The information you find around is not clear as to what to expect from weening. The things my doctor said don't necessarily jive with what I am reading or experiencing. My negative reaction to tapering has been a little less dramatic than I thought, and I'm wondering if I'm going to be taking a punch later. I've had one beer in the last 30 hours (the last about 12-14 hours ago in halves), 3 in the 24 hours before that, and I thought I'd feel worse at this point. I was out raking the lawn and mowing and went shopping (the latter is not my favorite thing...). I was expecting to be more agitated (note the Zoloft use... that was for a panic disorder).

Like I tried to suggest, I think tapering is probably hard for people to do if they are alcoholic in the sense that they can't stop even for a good reason. I found my reason. I am alcoholic in the sense that I am addicted because of my carelessness more recently, and I know it... Physically dependent. I don't think I have been "dependent" before, just careless.

I don't need AA. I am not a big fan of that type of program -- tell me I'm weak and helpless and need others... Well, that's not me. I don't need a counselor.

Dying is something I was trying to be sure I avoided because I am pretty interested in the next phase of my life and living in it. That's why I asked about the weening. I'm not really worried about my psychological perspective on drinking.

[ibizan]

Weaning off alcohol is unadvisable minus the supervision of a doctor who is well versed in addiction. I've never heard of anyone using Zoloft to taper...is that what a doctor gave u?or did u have some left over from a script and are doing this on ur own?The biggest difficulty is not in stopping...it is staying stopped!The brains coping mechanisms are hardwired to the alcohol!Not everyone clicks w/AA...there are many roads to recovery but it is important to have a supportive network of ppl who understand/respect what ur trying to do!u say ur new GF doesn't know @ the extent of the drinking?

[rpooo]

For a guy who has accomplished little you claim to be an expert and are disrespectful. This is a community of volunteers, people who share the personal life experiences to help others. Ibizan is our community leader with 28 years of sobriety, she is an excellent role model and I assure you her intentions are as always pure hearted and her advice is very effective. AA is an excellent source of support, there you will meet others in your same situation that have the same goals. Also many people find support right here in this forum. Problem is when you tell people “preach AA? Gee, thanks for the great insight.” It doesn’t encourage others to respond in a helpful manner. Let me assure you that quitting drinking is the first half of the battle and maintaining that sobriety is the second half.

I’ll be honest with you, I don’t care if you succeed or not it doesn’t affect me what so ever! I made it 960 days as of this morning, my life is perfect!

Here’s what I think though, I don’t think you mean to really come across that bad. You have a lot going on right now and it is most important for you to get your life back together and get on enjoying your future with your lady friend. I too quit drinking using a tapering method, and it worked very well for me. Thing is on 03-23-10 I received a diagnosis of end stage cirrhosis so you can understand it was very important for me to stop drinking immediately.

For me it wasn’t the thought of dying that motivated me but the thought of my lovely wife being left behind without me and my two daughters who very much needed me. There was my support group! It was all I needed. I knew if I failed I would be letting them down. My wife was only 33 years old and scared she was going to be a widow. I watched them all cry while I thought to myself “what have I done!”

I fixed it, I gave up the drink in less than a week. I suffered from fever and insomnia for another week. Then I was free, free of the drunken haze I spent the last 20 years in! Since then I pushed myself very hard to learn as much as I can on how to survive with this disease and have reached a point that it has stabilized which means for now no more cirrhotic progression. Life with cirrhosis is not easy by any means but since I am sober it has been my favorite part, for me and my family! Can you read this story and understand why Ibizan mentioned support? Can you see why it is important? Can you see how helpful and why it is necessary? As alcoholics we are weak in certain ways and selfish.

You mentioned: "now obviously estranged. That means I'm here alone"
Really you’re not though, you have finally met a lady you care about and you want to do this for her that’s wonderful! Why not let her help you with it? Surely you would not want to let her down if she knew. This is likely to be a story you tell her of someday and hopefully the problems never arises again but if you fail honorably she would maybe be right there to help you through it again. All the while building a stronger relationship.

The side effects to stopping drinking regardless of the method you chose are different for everybody. Our body chemistry  is all different but be aware of the dangers of stopping abruptly or without medical supervision. This is my experience with it and I hope it helps you out. Take care and good luck!

Randy

[enough_z_nough]

"I've never heard of anyone using Zoloft to taper..." I didn't say that... I said I tapered off Zoloft in January. At the time I was drinking almost nothing because I didn't want to overlap issues. These were separate things, though one influenced the other. I wrote down exactly what I was doing in tapering off alcohol in the original post.

"For a guy who has accomplished little you claim to be an expert and are disrespectful." I have not claimed to be an expert in anything except my own experience. I read a lot... and find it sorta discouraging that there isn't better information around for those seeking it. As far as having "accomplished little" as i've accomplished quite a lot in life. I am not sure what you base that on unless you mean that I'm in the midst of scrapping a physical addiction. I can tell you I won't have to count days when I am done with the physical part of the withdrawal.

I am not worried about staying stopped. My jobless (my wife destroyed my business and separated me from my means of production during the divorce), "homeless" (I gave up my house for 4 months and ended up traveling during the divorce) situation will likely never repeat. I didn't lose my job because of drinking; didn't lose my home because of drinking; didn't lose my wife because of drinking... I divorced HER because she was awful. I tried to be nice by letting her use a house she couldn't afford, and left my things in it, which she then put in a truck and stole... this included business inventory and many other things I thought I would still have access to (my computer...). You see there is a lot more to the story, but I really didn't think there was need to tell it if I asked a somewhat specific question... About tapering. Not about getting help with addiction.  

I was in a situation where I had lost all my boundaries and responsibilities (the latter unintentionally through the separation from everything that was familiar), and I tried to enjoy it waiting for the main issues to end... Ends up that I let it get a little out of control... Now I'm back in a house, finished the stupid divorce "process," and am moving on. It took several months longer than my lawyer suggested it would. I didn't pull up on the reins.

I'm not attempting to hide anything from my friend -- or anyone else for that matter. She is wonderful and caring and happens to live in another country. We've lived together for days/weeks at a time over the past 8 months, and has seen me drinking, almost all of which is in her presence when we are together, sharing a bottle of wine perhaps, and I probably was drinking a little less around her because there was something else to focus on (instead of waiting to get back and rebuild my business and life like I was in an endless checkout line at the supermarket). The last few months I had to be here, finishing the divorce process, and she is waiting on a VISA. The pause in my life due to divorce is done. My focus is different now. But for the moment, I certainly am alone as there is no one here -- my friends were my ex-wife's family. Yes, I talk with my gf every day, and there are plans moving forward. But right this minute, coming out of a situation with drinking that I let get out of control, I can check into a rehab to detox or just do it on my own (or place the burden on a family member or friend by going to visit them). Drinking too much for my amusement is over. Pressing reset, moving on. I'm aware of the risks, and have alternate plans should weening and consultation with my doctor not prove fruitful. What I don't have is experience... no matter how much I've read about what to expect. it is like going into parenthood... you don't always know what questions to ask, you don't have the experience to ask them. But when you get to the point of the specifics of changing the poopy diaper, you ask someone that did it before.

At this point I am wasting more time explaining all the details rather than looking at the original question... I was interested in experiences with weening... Note the title of the post. I understand that people are different when it comes to that... chemistry, weight, what you were drinking, how long... I get it. People are often concerned with relapse... I get it. I was hoping for insight into experience in withdrawal... I'm not getting it. I went to a doctor and told him what was up... That is ONE opinion.  He gave me a script for something should the symptoms arise and be uncomfortable... he was trying to help. I think he hasn't much experience with withdrawal, but he's an excellent doctor. He suggested NOT weening, I think because of his perspective on addition and alcoholism... completely understandible. I thought there might be more experience with weening in a forum such as this.

I am actually surprised by my current lack of symptoms of withdrawal. I mean, the temptation would be to say to myself "well, maybe I wasn't drinking as much as I thought??" Or maybe "wow, weening worked a lot better than people suggested it would!" But I guess I think that 12 drinks a day for a sustained period is a lot. I am more inclined to wonder if I am just due for a delayed reaction. In reading, you can find sources that say you will have symptoms within 5-10 hours of the last drink... or 24-48 hours... or 3-5 days... for up to a month... I read through lists of symptoms, and have few of them. From what I understand in reading about other experiences, it doesn't make sense. It goes against my doctor's advice. About half of what I read says it isn't supposed to work.

The most helpful thing in the thread for me, and I could stand more detail is: "I fixed it, I gave up the drink in less than a week. I suffered from fever and insomnia for another week." Well, I don't know what your volume was, but I stepped from an average of about 12 in several days (8, 4, 3, 1, 0). I have had minor headache, a few (2-3) anxious moments coupled with slight dizzies... Mostly I feel pretty good. I'm wondering if I can feel good and still revert to serious symptoms. I am guessing yes. I'm only 24 hours past the last beer. But 4 days into significant reduction. I hope I'm just lucky, but I don't want to be stupid... there is too much to look forward to.

I appreciate the concern with relapse and AA advice and such... it just has almost nothing to do with the question.

[rpooo]

I have not asked you to explain your entire story and frankly I found most of it irrelevant. I shared my experience with tapering to you in an attempt to help you with you tapering experience but that also comes with other advice like it or not. Also to let you know about the creditability of the person that has been trying to help you.
The only factual information you will find about tapering are the risks so all that are left is our experiences. No creditable MD will advise you to taper. Many people have done very well and others have lost their lives. Why? As I already told you "The side effects to stopping drinking regardless of the method you chose are different for everybody. Our body chemistry  is all different but be aware of the dangers of stopping abruptly or without medical supervision. This is my experience with it and I hope it helps you out".
It doesn't really matter how much I used to drink when I quit, many have drank far less and paid for it sadly with their life. The manner in which our body metabolizes alcohol has too many variables for any two cases to be exactly the same. This is the most I can tell you. I don’t know how your body will react and neither will anyone else so use you own discretion. I would also advise you to have a complete physical just to make sure your liver is doing fine.
To come in here looking for advice and bash the intellect of this group says something about your character. The people I try to help say thank you and please, nobody here owes you anything. So with that said this is my final post to you sir, I wish you well!
Randy
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[enough_z_nough]

"I have not asked you to explain your entire story and frankly I found most of it irrelevant."

Give me a sentence, and I'll explain the relevance. If you don't have detail, you can't possibly understand the circumstance...If you don't understand the circumstance, how can you answer the question? I guess it is easy if you only have one answer.

"To come in here looking for advice and bash the intellect of this group says something about your character. The people I try to help say thank you and please, nobody here owes you anything."

There was no bashing... I wouldn't have bothered asking if I didn't think there was anything to gain by the experience of the group.

There is no 'intellect' in a group that on the one hand wants to only say "you are an addict," lumping everyone into a group, and on the other saying "we are all individuals with individual experiences from which you have nothing to gain." Well, nothing to gain but learning the fact that you are NOT able to a) learn from the experience of the group, and b) have no reason to be here other than to submit to the ultimate authority of some imaginary hierarchy amidst the volunteers who are necessarily of the same breed -- because if they are not, they will be terminated. Everyone is not looking to be molded by a preconception. It's contradictory.

You said earlier I claimed to be an expert and I never did. Now you are saying I feel people owe me something... I'm not clear where you get that idea either. I have used forums for a lot of different purposes for nearly 20 years, and all of them have been a dialogue where a topic is posed and discussed. Voluntary sharing amongst members. Often there isn't enough detail to answer a question, especially if it is complex. I posed a topic... no one had to answer if it was offensive in some way.  Quite frankly the first response to me from the 'team leader' seemed offensive. I asked a pretty specific question with honesty, and was taunted after honestly seeking out a pocket of expertise, when my question was totally ignored and told in a wry tone "hahahaha! You are an ignorant, self-deceived addict, go to AA and read a pamphlet." *I* found it offensive that the first response was a taunt, and totally dismissed my intention... and you tell me that is your team leader?? Fabulous.

If you are not here to share experiences, then exactly what is this forum? Some pitty party where we all get together, hold hands and sing songs about how helpless and hopeless we are without a group around us that is also helpless and hopeless? Gawd bless if this is what you need. Sounds like televangelism.

I'm 48 hours without a drink (noted only because I should have most symptoms of withdrawal by now, not because I feel terribly drawn to go back to where I was), 6 days into a short tapering schedule, don't care about drinking, and have very few side effects at all. Still aware that they can crop up and things can change... But I won't expect any help from anyone here if I have questions as the mystery of why you are here remains a mystery.

Thanks for the warning for the termination of my account. Enjoy.

[TTinKKerBBell]

You kinda, sorta, rub some (or at least me) the "wrong" way with Your "intellectual attitude" - it kinda, sorta comes off as if You "know it all", as if You have "all the answers" - so I ask - why did You come here except to show off Your "intellect"??
I might add that I have no issues with alcohol MySelf - BUT, I was raised by an alcoholic Mother who Physically AND Emotionally abused me.  I come here to Learn and to Understand the addiction of alcohol and how it Others have overcome.  My Mother never stopped drinking, She died an alcoholic.  I have only Admiration and Respect for the People here who have addressed Their Issues and Have Changed Their Lives.

Why did You come????

You view being able to drink an 18 pack as okay? - I think an 18 pack is pretty major.  One has to drink for a while to build up a tolerance for an 18 pack.  The only difference between beer and hard liquour is that the hard liquor gets You there a little faster - BUT the beer DOES "get You there" - alcohol is alochol is alcohol!!

Call me right or wrong (matters not to me) but my personal impression is that You came on here more to hear YourSelf than to listen to Others (others who have "been there done that" and have learned MUCH.  If You were here for Help and/or Advice - You would Listen to the Input of Others with an Open Mind AND THEN You would take whatever Information is Useful to You and You would leave the rest - You Would Not Be Offended By Anything That Has Been Said Here.  The only Person here who has been "offended" or "offensive" here is You.

Others are here to offer what They have Learned, to Share Their Experience and speaking for MySelf - They strike me as MUCH more Respectful than You.  These are REAL People who have faced Their issues - They are to be Commended and Congradulated for how They have turned Their Lives.  I read and re read, several times, Your posts - I fail to see that You've offered anything Helpful to others - only that You justify Your behaviors to YourSelf - I'm not buying Your 50cent words.  Intelligence is something "learned", not something "spouted"

Just saying...............................

[enough_z_nough]

Sorry if my words bother you. I write a lot as a part of my profession, so the words come out...and often I tend to be cheeky with them. To me it is just a medium, and if I am offending you by doing what I do naturally, well, it isn't what I had in mind and totally unintentional. I am quite unaware of 50-cent words. I look back and don't see any.

If I seem to be armed with any type of knowledge, it is from reading a lot about alcohol withdrawal and related topics before quitting to be sure I didn't kill myself in the process. That and 30 years of moderate to heavy drinking several times a week, with large gaps between (months or years). I have experience with alcohol from those years, but a 12 pack was an extreme that happened maybe a handful of times. 6-8 was more the range of binging, and not every day. These last 10 months are the only period where I have ever drank every day, more recently averaging a 12 pack -- and I think a 12 pack is a lot. I had, once or twice in that period, consumed  an 18 pack, which from my experience of the past is pretty bad and totally excessive by any stretch. I don't believe I suggested that it wasn't a lot. In fact, I don't think I'd ever have been able to drink that much at other points in my life. I did not at all claim beer is "better" than hard liquor, but it does seem that hard liquor goes down faster, and probably tends to bump the BAC up more severely. I was wondering if maybe the difference in severe withdrawals and my experience could have to do with my drinking mostly being beer and not vodka. Anything I have read about reduction and weening says that it is best to do with beer...

This 10 months is also the only period I have ever felt addicted and drank every day, often to relieve symptoms of drinking... Often because it was just my routine. My situation made it easy.

"Why did You come????"
I figured that in a forum on alcoholism, where I have read about people seeking advice about withdrawal, that it was OK to ask questions about withdrawal. I wasn't seeking medical advice, which I had already tried to get, and I don't expect people here to be able to give it.

I was looking for experience that people actually had during withdrawal while weening. It is in the topic and the questions. I don't know how it could be more clear. If there is no information about that, so be it. However, there is also no reason to respond if the topic isn't of any interest.

A list of symptoms I can find on the internet... doctors advice I had gotten... reading all day for days on end and drawing conclusions from common themes in articles and resources I can ascertain... I know quite a lot about help programs for addicts, having a daughter who went through inpatient rehab recently for 6 months -- a process that I was involved in as a parent. One thing I found very little of having to do with alcohol withdrawal in my reading is a dialog from someone in the midst of quitting using weening. Weening is, I guess, frowned upon in some ways. From what I have read and gather from sources, it isn't because it doesn't work, so much as most people with alcohol problems cannot adhere to a reduction schedule, and will more likely relapse. It makes a lot of sense. It also makes sense to me that many have no choice but to go "cold turkey". I had confidence that I could ween.

I tried to explain my logic for choosing weening. If I have one drink I don't have to have 12. But perhaps because it seems to be a rarer case that people ween, there is *not* a lot of experiential discussion about it, and a lot of assumption that the destination is failure. In any case, I have not read anywhere that it can be MORE dangerous than "cold turkey". So I decided to try it. If it failed and I relapsed, I would both learn something (I was closer to being alcoholic in the psychological sense than I thought) and could try again or move on to cold turkey and consider other options (like detox, rehab, AA). I also came here during the experience because I was totally alone. I live in a house by myself, have little reason to go out except for supplies, and friends, at least in the short term, live elsewhere. I figured a larger community of people in a group under the name "Medhelp" probably had members who had weened (successfully or not) and could offer some input from their experience on weening and what they experienced. I was looking for the information I didn't have and maybe a sounding board to see if my ideas were off the wall, and to seek out people who had the same or similar experience. One thing I think I had to offer, in a limited fashion, is my own experience as it was happening.

I came, also, because the first steps in the weening had gone easier than I expected. I wondered if I might have false hope of success. It may sound weird, but it worried me that it was going so well, especially after all the warnings I got.

"The only Person here who has been "offended" or "offensive" here is You."

Well, unless I am mistaken, I offended everyone else who responded to this thread, and I'm not quite sure why. Apparently it is my language. Like I said, I have participated in many forums on a variety of topics (outside of alcoholism, as this is my first on that topic -- and I hope the last), and sometimes as a volunteer resource or even organizer. In those forums, I never expected any dedication from someone coming to ask a question, tried to understand what the question was to the best of my ability, and did my best to answer and provide resources that would help -- or divulge personal experiences that might be useful. In other words, I knew the topics I was offering help with, and answered the questions to help people. I didn't tell them to go take a class. I didn't tell them they would fail. I didn't taunt them by saying "you don't know what you are getting yourself into..." I didn't assume they were asking questions as a personal affront. They were curious about a topic I had a passion and interest in, and if I could help, I did. Sometimes I even had the opportunity to learn from a question. Perhaps I am jaded by my experience, but I never did it so people would ask me please and thank you, and I never expected them to. I also don't believe there is any point here where I was intentionally rude, except after being taunted.

I chose to add the word "Weening" to the topic because that was what I wanted to know about. I was hoping to have some people share experience and knowledge that I did not have about weening specifically, requesting "factual" information in personal experience with weening. I wasn't asking about people's personal opinion of me, whether they thought I could handle weening (although, at least that would have been on topic), or if I needed AA. If I was interested in AA I'd have gone there. I hoped to have people share experiences with weening... If sharing experiences on alcoholism-related topics is NOT what this forum is about, then I am a little bit at a loss, because most of the other threads I read here seem to espouse that.

[enough_z_nough]

"They strike me as MUCH more Respectful than You.  These are REAL People who have faced Their issues - They are to be Commended and Congradulated for how They have turned Their Lives. "

Well, I can point to moments of disrespect from the other posters if you'd like... and I'd be glad to see where I was disrespectful if you'd point that out. If this forum is dedicated just to worshipping the achievement of obtaining sobriety and the length of time that one keeps to it, I'm not sure I see the point. Offering encouragement to take steps to reduce and eliminate alcohol would seem to be more genuinely helpful. Saying "hahahah, you are self-deceived and cant possibly do that on your own..." and "I don't care if you quit or not" don't really seem to be encouraging or helpful. Certainly they may be phrases born of realistic personal experience, but is it helpful? If helping isn't the goal, and it isn't sobriety worship... then what is it?

To update... I am 72 hours past the last drink, 7 days into reduction. I had one moment of anxiety after going shopping to get supplies for my juicer, and took 1/2 a Lorazopam instead of going for a haircut that I'd planned. I'd never taken it before, and not sure that I got much benefit, and felt a little uncomfortable at the onset. I'm not sure I'll take that again unless I have more extreme symptoms. I've restarted my exercise routines, which I'd done till about 6 weeks ago, and am re-acquainting myself with relaxation routines, which I've used with much success in the past to control anxiety. I feel pretty good, and while I don't want to be overly optimistic, it seems the weening helped get me off my habit/addiction in the short run. I hope progress continues. Perhaps my little contribution of experience might help someone consider alternatives to cold turkey, and inspire some confidence that getting off the drink can be achieved if you don't have the resources for expensive services.

[TTinKKerBBell]

Simply:

You give (me) the impression You are not here for well-intentioned and SINCERE advice but rather to show off Your verbage/vocabulary/intellect.

I don't care to bicker and banter individual points with You. It's beginning to sound like a dueling game.

I wish You well in Your Recovery, other than that, I'm done with this thread.

[enough_z_nough]

you are right, I never asked for advice. As I have said umpteen times now, I was trying to hear from people tho have tried weening. I am really not sure at all how that sounds like I am coming off as an 'intellect'. That is a pretty odd comment. I am trying to impress people about my social lapses on a substance abuse forum? I'm not sure how that can possibly be an observation that makes sense.

Obviously you have no interest in the topic of tapering... and neither do the other two people that posted. I guess I hope anyone else who decides to post will discuss their experience with tapering/weaning. I'm such an intellect half the time I've been spelling "wean" incorrectly...

[ibizan]

those of us who have accepted our alcoholism have found weaning to NOT work for us.....detox and working towards total abstinence from all drink/drug is what worked for us!perhaps u can find a forum on Harm Reduction......don't think one exists here!but it probably exists elsewhere!

[TTinKKerBBell]

I didn't say "I" thought You were intellectual - rather, I said "YOU think You are an intellectual".

ONE of the reasons I say that, is I think You are MUCH more interested in what You YOURSELF have to say instead of coming here with an Open Mind and Willing to Listen to Other input!!  I'm not suggesting that You're NOT "intelligent" (per se) but I AM saying You are unwilling to "listen" with an Open Mind and take in what others "know" because of what They have learned!!  

Your posts are sooooo long that I truely feel You are more interested in what YOU have to say than You are interested in listening to Others.  My personal opinion is that, a "truely" intelligent person would be open to learning something new - in my opinion - that is not You!!

I noticed that You were spelling  "wean" incorrectly but didn't feel compelled to correct You.  I don't consider myself an "intellect" but I AM a good speller and I HAVE learned MUCH along the way by LISTENING to Others.  I've learned that probably NO ONE is all wrong but neither is ANY ONE all right - AND to take what You can use and leave what is not useful - it's as simple as that!!

PS
I guess You won this particular "dual" after all, cuz I said previously that I was done and lo and behold here I am "bickering" with You after all - Silly me.

[ibizan]

Well sometimes we here agree to disagree....but thats they way it goes...no winners...just posters!:)

[enough_z_nough]

"You are MUCH more interested in what You YOURSELF have to say instead of coming here with an Open Mind and Willing to Listen to Other input!!"

I did not come here with an open mind, no. I came here seeking information from people who had tried to wean... now I have said that about 15 times. I don't need AA. I don't need a counselor. I have a reason to stop and I am stopping. I was careless and got myself addicted to alcohol. What else do I have to admit to? You don't like my word choices... well, you know, I can please some of the people some of the time and the rest of them use a dictionary because I'm a pain in the ***. Really, there aren't any words I see that I am using here that are above grade-school.

I had a pretty specific idea of what I hoped to find here. I stated specifically what that was. NO ONE HAD TO ANSWER... No one had to read anything, or like it, or get upset, or tell me to go to AA without knowing the slightest thing about who I am. You can have your groups and labels and whatever else you want... I just wanted to hear something from people who have tried weaning, and other than that I thought I'd be left alone.

If the community frowns on or doesn't allow certain questions, they should make that clear. This seems to be completely pertinent to the forum. If no one has anything to say on the topic, then why say it? It makes the topics convoluted.

I am about 90 hours without a drink and feeling fine, thanks. Weaning seems to have gone well. The four beers on the door of my fridge are still there, and will be for some time as I don't get many visitors.

Who knows, maybe I didn't need to wean at all... I'll never find out. But as I lay this episode behind me I look forward to the future. I'm not going to play the alcoholic and dwell on it every day for the rest of my life by hanging around people that somehow like the constant reminder that alcohol played a part in their lives... It played a part in mine and had me in its grip for a little bit... and now I have the upper hand.

If that makes me appear to think I am an intellect, well, sorry. If my words come across as "too big" it may be because I majored in English, write books and have taught English and writing. I guess that is another fault. I didn't mock anyone for random capitalization, and I think posters are free to use any tone they prefer...

"a "truely" intelligent person would be open to learning something new"

I was. I wanted to know about weaning. I wanted to know about experiences with effects of withdrawal. I did not want to know about AA... about becoming needy, about the strange needs of the group that I conform to some preconceived mold. I asked for what I needed to know, and that is precisely what everyone has avoided talking about.

Somehow that makes me have a perception of myself as an intellect...

This is the nuttiest discussion I have pretty much ever had in a forum. no no... let me clarify. This is the most bizarre argument I have had in a forum. I have NEVER, before had to defend asking a question that it doesn't appear to me has been asked before. I've never had to reiterate so many times what my point was. Ya'll don't like people who are confident in their sobriety here...  Sorry you are so closed minded.

Maybe I'm not the only one who needs to explore having an open mind...

[TTinKKerBBell]

MOSTLY I think You are "long winded" and MOSTLY I think You are MUCH more interested in what YOU have to say than what others may have to input and MOSTLY I am worried about Your denial of Your alcoholism and MOSTLY - MOST of all, I am worried about Your fiance who probably does not realize what She is getting into.  I picture You "lecturing" Her with Your "knowledge" and Your "assumed" intellegence!!  My guess:  You will CONTROL the Relationship and if EVER She regains Her OWN Identity, well then, I predict She will HAVE to leave You to ATTAIN that!!  I understand that the "human" condition is to "want" Control BUT, I maintain that in a "good, productive" Relationship there is "give and take".  I DO NOT see this here!!
You Are The MOST UNlikeable Person I Have Ever Met On These Forums!!

There certainly have been Others who hold to Their Conventions and  Their Beliefs - but YOU, Mister, (as far as I'M concerned AND speaking ONLY for MySelf!!)  YOU  "take the cake!!"

SO - in the long run - I hope, I Sincerely Hope!! that You find Your Sobriety because I do, I REALLY DO think this is of UtMost Importance -- but, outside that - I hope Your GF finds a better place to land than with You!!  

[enough_z_nough]

I think it is crazy to draw the type of conclusions you have here about me, my personality, my relationship, and my involvement with alcohol. I think it is a little nutty to wish bad things on my and my relationship because I dont want to conform to the stigma of alcoholism. I think it is weird that you all want to be helpless, even a generation removed from the actual problem.

I had a much longer reply and deleted it. it would have fallen on deaf ears. But instead of doing like you and wishing the demise of your relationship and hope for the future, I hope you find the sense to put to rest whatever demons it is you have about your mother, and get the heck on with your life. It affected you then... get over it and move on. i drank for 10 months while my life was changing without me... now its all done -- and I am moving on.

I'm all done drinking heavily, no thanks to anyone here. All I received was discouragement and angst. I have no idea what you all think you are doing, but it seems to me like you are all protecting your weakness, and that is easier than standing up and actually being responsible. I drank too much for a while... not because I was weak and helpless, but because I wanted to. It was a mistake, and its over. I have other things to do. You all should get over it and move on too. You finish with part of our life and move on... Here people dwell on their alcoholism like it was a baseball career or some achievement to remember.

Its twisted. Get on with your lives... you don't have to make the same mistake again.

Over 100 hours past that last drink and it looks like weaning worked... Maybe some attitudes need re-evaluating.

[Steph_MHModerator]

****************THREAD CLOSED********************************************

NO MORE POSTS, please!

If the original poster would like to post again about drinking or recovery, that is fine but please let's all remember that we are a support forum and people are in different stages of their recovery.

Thank you!

Steph