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97615 tn?1212678589

cholinergic urticaria/hives

I have exercise induced urticaria.  I want to know if anyone else has this and if so what causes it and what can you do to control it without a prescription.  I am desperate.  I am a runner that does not want a prescription.  I suffer from asthma and the hives are worse when my asthma is worse.  I am not taking anything for asthma except for an inhaler at the moment.  I am tired of depending on drugs.  I know that may sound ignorant but I want to help myself to help itself if you know what I mean.
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Avatar universal
I have had allergies since a child of 8. I would swell up like continents all over my body in patches. At 12 we took a trip to Sweden and they completely went away. In 2003 the allergies returned putting me in the hospital after dancing and working up a sweat. I left the club in my car only to have my eyes swell and not be ale to see in front of me. I was latter diagnosed by a doctor as being allergic to seafood. He of course never said anything about sweat or excercise being a possible trigger. One year latter I went jogging again. I collapsed in my neighbors yard and took an ambulance trip to the hospital. I was then diagnosed as being allergic to garlic, onions, yeast, sunflowers, peanuts, eggs and Haddock. By this time I tried cutting these foods out of my diet. As you can imagine it has been pretty difficult. That list is ingredients in many foods. Through the years I have tried to avoid these foods. They react mostly when exercising. About 2 years ago I visited an Internist because they were occurring without raised heart rate. She suggested 10mg of Zyrtec and Zantac 75. The combination of H1 and H2 blockers is pretty successful at blocking the Mitochondria in your cells from creating the reaction. Unfortunately this problem is never ending but is worse on some days especially when hormones are changing. My best suggestion is to listen to your body and try working out frequently to build your tolerance and use drugs when needed but avoid them all the time so your don't become immune. Drink lots of water also to keep your body flushed. It is likely most of us are ingesting or breathing something causing the reaction which is why when I went to Sweden it ceased.. One of my biggest reactors when not working out is POWDERED GARLIC AND ONIONS and MSG. Good luck to you all. It is no fun to swell up and not be able to breathe. Darn right scary.
Helpful - 0
3061295 tn?1372334617
Hello hi,
          i hv (cu),it almost 1 yr & 6 months now,i want to know the name of ur Vitamine B12 & dosage that ur doctor gave u please,& how is ur condition wright now?
Helpful - 0
3061295 tn?1372334617
Hell hi i hv Cholinergic Urticaria(cu) is about 1 year & 6 months up to now,so i want to know ur Vitamine B12 Dosage that u received,becaused it is very bad condition i hv & is very severely to me like what happen to u,that i cant Lough,get angry,coughing,because they break out,so pls can u give me the name of that Vitamine B12 Injection & Dosage so that i can find it,and get that shot,
                  Thanks,
                               Calcia Masaki
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I have had the same condition for almost a year now. It has definately been progressive starting with a small itchy wheel on my stomache to fist sized patches on and under my breasts.  I Joined a gym that has a pool and am currently confinded to excercising in the pool to avoid breakouts.  I definately think that my emotional stress has had a significant impact on the development of this since I did see a temporary relief in symptoms after I moved and during school breaks.  I will try Allegra as it did work for me for another allergy before.  I cannot take benedryl as I am soooo sensitive to it and would fall alseep anywhere.  As I was reading everyones posts I could not help to wonder if some of our body's do not percieve situations as stress when they are not.  Basically confusing excercise with stress based soley on physical response.  All I know is that I'm sick of it and want my life back.  However, I do feel much better knowing that I am not alone.  The pool really does help and is a very good cardio!
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1 Comments
Hey.I too also developed cu recently after moving to the united states.I lived and was born in Nigeria which is usually very hot and used to participate in a lot of track and field activities.But some months after moving to the us I got very itchy without a rash ,I remember that most times I get it I run to the bathroom.This is my fifth month here and I just think the cause of my utucaria could be moving from a very hot environment to a very cold.I think this us a way my body tells me I should have prepared well.its really hard not being able to live like before but hey I'm pushing on  
Avatar universal
i had it twice this week after running, very sudden, never had anything like it before. Went out this evening determined that it would not happen again, it didn't.

No idea if this remission is linked to my state of mind or not. while i was running i took care to feel in control, and not push myself past a certain level of exhaustion if you know what i mean, but it was still a pretty hard run.

Don't pay much attention to this post of mine on its own, but if a number of other people find that there state of mind has something to do with it, then it may be worth thinking about.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hey, I've just read your posts, I too have cholinergic urticaria and have vitamin b12 shots as well, my b12 is low have had 2 injections so far. I'm hoping that they fix my problems, just wondering how you are going after your shots???
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I too have this. It started when I was about 14 or 15 in gym class. I thought I was allergic to my gym suit.  I am 49 now. It mostly happens in the fall/winter. This year, it has just begun about 2 weeks ago. It drives me insane. It happens when I sweat (exercise, simple things like walking through Walmart shopping,  and walking back to my car, like going from hot to cold, when I'm nervous, etc.)  I am happy to know there is a name for it. Things that seem to help are to moisturize the skin. I am going to change my soap as soon as I can get to the store and buy tons of lotion. ....Crazy 35 years later, I'm discovering some of these things that will help me and that I'm not alone.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
hi there,
i have exactly same problem as yours...it's actually been happening 5 or 6 years now...until last year i found myself suffer much more than early years with that....got worst...so this year i went to a dermatologist and diagnosed as Cholinergic Urticaria...after all i've been doing a lot of research on this matter...during summer it's just torture for me, i cannot even walk a bit faster...i need to get shelter at all times..take cold shower....i am from hong kong, the summer lasts 5 or six months...i think up until now, there has not been any confirmed medication which to deal with CU....so i started taking herbs...so-called Chinese Med...hope it helps...
thanks
Helpful - 0
1590841 tn?1297098131
Hi all, I too suffer from idiopathic urticaria, that is definitely worse when I run!

After many years of trial and error with many different attempts to fix this, we discovered that if I stay away from tap water, ice machines, and soft serve ice cream, my hives are almost gone!   Apparently there are certain molds that can build up in pipes and machines that are not cleaned frequently, and although testing did not show an allergy to molds I suspect this may be partially the cause of my hives.

I seem to be okay if I bathe in it, however I have to wash all my food in bottled water and only drink it as well.  Even fountain machine colas and other sodas will have tap water, so I have to try to stay away from these too.

Good luck, I hope this may be the answer for some of you!

Cindy

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Avatar universal
Ive just started my first cluster of 6 x b12 jabs . My B12 went down to 100. My itching is easing after my first 2 jabs and my skin is improving...also feeling a little bit more normal!. Please push your gp to check your levels if you have chronic urticaria..I think i would have lost my mind. Good luck .
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I didnt have time to read all your note but can sympathise with him completely. Has he had blood tests to check his b12 level?. Ive had chronic Urticaria for six months now. My blood tests showed my red cells to be the wrong size and b12 test showed my level was 110 and the lowest normal range is 145. I am praying that the b12 jabs will sort me out. The GP's dont seem to generally know b12 can be connected with urticaria. Good luck I feel so sorry for your son. This can really debilitate and takes over your life like constant chicken pox.  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hello,

Just sharing my CU Story... This Problem I agree with you all does decrease the quality of life.. It is HORRIBLE!! I havent met anyone yet who has even heard of it and when i explain it to them they say... What?? Thats Crazy!! and Yes it is Crazy!

My CU started when I was age 23-24 I had never been allergic to anything in my entire life that I know of anyway... never had an allergic reaction to anything the only thing I had sine a child has been Eczema. 2008 I Became pregnant with my First child and Had a c-section.. After reading a few of these posts Im beginning to think it could have something to do with the drugs they gave me? epidural... demoral and laughing gas.. that I know of...or just my hormones being totally out of wack Im not sure but when my daughter was about 11 months old I wanted to try to get my Body back so I started doing Cardio work outs..( Turbo Jams to be exact ) I got half way through the video and started itching like crazy and had these Huge blister like bumps all over my body again describing it as being bitten all over by fire ants my skin was on fire and sooo itchy.. I instantly Jumped into a cold shower.. which seemed to help but also made it worse because I scratched so bad the hives became what it seemd to be my whole body turned into one big hive... My husband Now says that I mutate when Im mad! not funny hunny! I wish he could feel what it is like but then i would never with this feeling upon anyone!! So this first Episode Scared the crap out of me I had no idea what was going on I called my husband crying that my skin was mutated and there was something seriously wrong with me... 45-60 minutes later it was totally gone like nothing ever happend!! The next time I took Pictures to have proof! pretty much after that I have been living with the same episodes any time I get excited.. embarrased.. blush... if im really cold.. like if i am outside walking in the cold and come inside in the warm i break out.. If Im nervous or even a little warm.. if I cough to much pretty much anytime my hear rate rises.. which I also think it could be something to do with Blood Pressure? my second child in 2010 I thought maybe i'll be lucky and this pregnancy will make everything go back to normal.. but nope.. if anything its worse then ever.. and tired of it!!! If i feel it coming on i try to cool my body down ASAP or emotional wise i try to Calm myslef down the best I can and go outside if its cold or wash my hands and arms in really cold water helps cool down my body temp.. Hopefully one day they can one day find a cure I dont want this for 30 years!!  if its to do with the mast cells releasing histimine instead of sweat they should try coming up with some kind of drug to do the opposite of what the mast cells are doing or totally block our bodies from producing histimines lol if that would be possible.. There needs to be more research in a cure for it thats for sure... It seems that it is only in the last so many years they are truly understanding more about it.. when i first found out i had this i searched it and found hardly anything.. atleast now i find more people with it and understanding it more.. maybe one day we will get somewhere with it. We can all hope... As for Drugs that help me ... If I take 2-3 benadryl about an 30-60 before I work out It makes my breakouts not so bad.. instead of Huge hives i get tiny ones and not as itchy.. but its still there.. and the harder I work out the worse it is... Goodluck to everyone Dealing with this living He**.
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Avatar universal
MAY i say:

My son doesnt just have this SILLY DAFT RASH u go on about BUT Certain parts of his body swell up so bad, at times, he cannot walk....His face flares up with Lumps/Bumps soooo bad, we Cannot recognise him.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
MY SONS CONDITION IS NOOOOOTHING TO DO WITH HEAT, NOUT, NUFFING, ZERO!!!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
hey,

from scotland....

theres NOTHING to do with heat that causes my sons condition at all..

please read below and mail me as i don't know what i can do to help my son.

ty.

My son suffered a slight rash 3 yrs ago which was so bad we took him to a&e....they said he was allergic to asprin....Fine, they sorted it and it went in 3 days.

Since then......

A yr and half later, he was away and living on his own and sent me pics of himself looking like elephant man.....was in and out of hospital for 2 weeks on and off till it died down and docs making sure it never went to his throat.

Since then, my son 21, was a model and maitre de has turned into a recluse and very hard to live with as his moods have changed no end.

He is depressed and i cannot blame him.

Getting work is NOT a problem for him as he is sweet/kind and good at his job BUT once this flares up, no-one, including employers which used to love him, no longer want to know and its sad.

He has been fine for past ten days After HAVING to give up latest job where they adored him and loved his work but because of this he is out again!!!

Doctors have no idea what causes this Extreme form but i just want a cause and an end to his suffering, he is a young lad who should be enjoying life.

Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
My son suffered a slight rash 3 yrs ago which was so bad we took him to a&e....they said he was allergic to asprin....Fine, they sorted it and it went in 3 days.

Since then......

A yr and half later, he was away and living on his own and sent me pics of himself looking like elephant man.....was in and out of hospital for 2 weeks on and off till it died down and docs making sure it never went to his throat.

Since then, my son 21, was a model and maitre de has turned into a recluse and very hard to live with as his moods have changed no end.

He is depressed and i cannot blame him.

Getting work is NOT a problem for him as he is sweet/kind and good at his job BUT once this flares up, no-one, including employers which used to love him, no longer want to know and its sad.

He has been fine for past ten days After HAVING to give up latest job where they adored him and loved his work but because of this he is out again!!!

Doctors have no idea what causes this Extreme form but i just want a cause and an end to his suffering, he is a young lad who should be enjoying life.

Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
My son suffered a slight rash 3 yrs ago which was so bad we took him to a&e....they said he was allergic to asprin....Fine, they sorted it and it went in 3 days.

Since then......

A yr and half later, he was away and living on his own and sent me pics of himself looking like elephant man.....was in and out of hospital for 2 weeks on and off till it died down and docs making sure it never went to his throat.

Since then, my son 21, was a model and maitre de has turned into a recluse and very hard to live with as his moods have changed no end.

He is depressed and i cannot blame him.

Getting work is NOT a problem for him as he is sweet/kind and good at his job BUT once this flares up, no-one, including employers which used to love him, no longer want to know and its sad.

He has been fine for past ten days After HAVING to give up latest job where they adored him and loved his work but because of this he is out again!!!

Doctors have no idea what causes this Extreme form but i just want a cause and an end to his suffering, he is a young lad who should be enjoying life.

Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
My son suffered a slight rash 3 yrs ago which was so bad we took him to a&e....they said he was allergic to asprin....Fine, they sorted it and it went in 3 days.

Since then......

A yr and half later, he was away and living on his own and sent me pics of himself looking like elephant man.....was in and out of hospital for 2 weeks on and off till it died down and docs making sure it never went to his throat.

Since then, my son 21, was a model and maitre de has turned into a recluse and very hard to live with as his moods have changed no end.

He is depressed and i cannot blame him.

Getting work is NOT a problem for him as he is sweet/kind and good at his job BUT once this flares up, no-one, including employers which used to love him, no longer want to know and its sad.

He has been fine for past ten days After HAVING to give up latest job where they adored him and loved his work but because of this he is out again!!!

Doctors have no idea what causes this Extreme form but i just want a cause and an end to his suffering, he is a young lad who should be enjoying life.

Helpful - 0
1960683 tn?1325241281
Hi Everyone,
My first post but have been watching and learning. I will put my "CU timeline in point form because it became so complex that I confuse myself…… I am 53yrs old and female – Australia.

1. Mum said I had hives as a child but it was a common thing back then.
2. I had an outbreak of pressure urticaria after a Chinese meal in the mid 80's and put it down to MSG or something – prednisone for a week and it went.
3. My gorgeous, beautiful, kind son died in 2006 after a 5 yr battle to live –
high stress, for a long time – he got a blood clot I his lungs and died waiting on the transplant list – very very stressful also dry runs to hospital ,
heart/lungs not suitable etc – and surgeries to keep him alive – also high debt nearly a million spent on medications not under PBS so massive debt here still. –therefore - depression and grief ( 2 different things ) are issues. I was 48.
4. Urticaria breakout in early 2007 – lots of stress after Tim died, moved
state, relationship worries – you can only imagine. I was treated with
Prednisone and Zyrtec and Zantac ( ranitidine) 6 mths settled down.
5. Started bowel issues – diarrhoea, cramps etc 2009 had a colonoscopy and Gastroenterologist had a feeling about it and did 6 biopsies along my bowel. Came back positive for  lymphocytic Colitis – cause is suspected auto immune still not much known about it as it is often missed. Says is rare but believes it is only rare because Dr's do not biopsy for it.
6. January this year massive break out and still have it. STILL HAVE IT! Been playing around with meds and everything seems to give me problems.
7. Tried Cyclosporin and had kidney failure – so that is a no go.
8. Prednisone I only take as a short term thing for a massive flare – due to
side effects.
9. Liver is not user friendly and I retain fluid and have familial high
cholesterol. Had to stop cholesterol meds due to liver function. Good grief!
10. after join a couple sites i have now become aware that a lot of women that had endometriosis have urticaria of different forms but auto immune - i had endo.
11 - i am a blusher and get flushed, if i cry, get anxious , ever so slightly - even if i laugh when i am out  got and go bright red - then you can be sure some hives will come up. i hate this - i embarrassed and ir gets worse (duh)


Current meds - backed of by science you need both a H1 and a H2 receptor.

Morning Entocorte 3mg for bowel – steroid that does not get absorbed so much into the blood but goes through to the bowel.
1 x Zytrec (Cetirizine) (was on 2) - Hi histamine receptor
1 x Zantac ( ant acid ./ reflux ) Hi histamine receptor
1 x Xanax ( anxiety, agitation, restless legs)

Midday  was on 2 Zyrtec now cut out due to zombiness

Eve 2 x doxepin ( 10 mg) - wish i could get down to one, it makes me fat i think as does zyrtec.
1 x Zyrtec  ( was on 2)
1 zantac
2 x Xanax ( anxiety, sleep, restless legs) also trying to cut back was put on this when we were waiting for transplant. :(

This week – Dr ( Specialist Dermatologist ) said drop Zyrtec pick up Telfast
(Fexofenadine) and started me on Singulair (10mg) once a day- that was Monday –
Tuesday woke up hysterically itchy all over, some hives, some broken & weeping serum. So hit myself with some prednisone to calm things down went back to my usual regime and will just add Sungulair after the weekend and see. As 2 things were changed I don't know what flared me up.

I am itchy most of the time all over, where ever I touch or light rub brings up a wheel, hive, rash – Where ever my clothes touch I have red welts and feel itchy and hot. E.G undies, bra, waistline if wearing a skirt, shoes, necklace. I also get really scarlet red and blotchy if I laugh or cry around my chest and up my neck or anything other than quietly sitting and not at emotional- That is normal to get a slight rash around their neck / chest, for some woman but I get it extremely bad.

Diagnosed after allergy tests and heaps of stuff with Auto Immune Chronic
Dermographic Urticaria.

Honestly I am not coping with this at all. Due to the loss of my son I need to walk, get out to help with depression. not be bombed out on anti histamines.

Prednisone makes me much more emotional- I just can't take much more. – and this is the short version – sorry. I feel like I cannot win  -
for the people that get urticaria where skin rubs skin during exercise you can get a stop chaffing power from the pharmacy that helps - as it lowers the friction - i have also used cornflour in Australia rub before you walk/run and it may be called corn starch elsewhere - it s the finest powder you can i used it if my babies got heat rash and nappy ? diaper rash back in the 70's and 80's.

Love
Annie
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I also have cu! I not only get it from  exercise, but from as little as vacuuming an area rug, or clorox in the laundry. If I am around chemicals or my thermostat is on the rise from heat, or the slightest bit of running, my eyes will start to sell and then I am in trouble. Have not heard many of you write about this stage of cu. Anyone else have the swollen in the face or eyes? I have learned to control m symptoms, so that I do not get to that point, unless I am where there are chemicals and I ingest them. My Doctor has been doing alot of research on this and he thinks he may have found a shot that it used for asthma, It is called Xolair. This is used to bring the IGE levels down, which is what is elevated in CU. Unfortunately, I do not have asthma so the insurance company will not allow it, stating that it would be experimental. My Doctor believes this will help they symptoms of cu.So for those of you that have CU, maybe you should have blood test done to see if your IGE levels are elevated. Maybe we can start a rally on the cure for CU.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I had my first attack at age 6 and am now 48 yrs old, I take Benadryl Acrivastine 8mg which seems to work well, but also take Ranitidine for an unrelated condition. Until reading this site, I was unaware that the 2 worked in conjunction.
I have suffered from depression and anxiety which seems to exacerbate the CU, tried meditation, relaxation and just about everything else. I also have Psoriasis, eczema and asthma, which are all related to CU.
I suppose I'm just so glad to come across a site with other sufferers, thank you all for your input, as perhaps we can come up with a way to manage this debilitating condition, keep posting!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thank you, thank you, thank you to all of you! I thought it was just me. I started experiencing Cholinergic urticaria about 4 yrs ago. I only get it bad when I run. I wasn't much of a runner in the past, but the last couple of years I decided to try to run more. Oddly enough I don't experience it as much on treadmill, as opposed to running on the street.

Based on a lot of the comments and my own experience, there seems to be a correlation between asthma/shortness of breath. I too was told by my doctor a few years ago that I had exercise induced asthma.

I'm still experimenting, but Zyrtec seems to help. Additionally, I've been trying breathing exercises and I feel like the better my breathing gets while running the less I itch. I also think the army guy may be on to something. I refuse to quit! I will fight through this and I will win!

Thank you all again! I really thought I was going crazy all by myself. I wish you all the best and I hope it gets better for you all.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I also have suffered from cu for 4 years now. This cobdition dramatically decrease my life quality. Somehow, once body core temperature certain threshold, mast cells and basophils begin to exocytose (secrete) histamine and other inflammatory factors into tissues underneath the skin. These cytokines (histamine etc) interact with
target receptor located on my cell types. Endothelial cells (cells made up capillarie wall) express H 1 receptors on their cell membranes. Histamine released by leukocytes will bind to these H 1 receptors, relaying specific instruction for these cell to response. One of the cells' responses is shrink in size. This leave gaps between endothelial cells made up blood vessels (cause capillaries to become porous) ,allowing blood to exudate into the surround tissues, which apear as a distinct tiny rounded lesions (hives) histamine and other inflammatory factors (prostagladins etc) causes others irritation sensations such as itchiness. Current knowledge suggest that cholinergic neural pathways may be involve with this condition. Sympathetic neurons release acetalcholines ( neural transmitters) which react with cholinergic receptors on target cells may somehow cause mast cells and other cells (mainly leukocyte) release inflammatory factors to the tissues, result in wide spread hives cover large area of the body.
There is NO cure for cu. This is simply because we currently do not understand detail mechanism of cu development. All we know is that mast cells dump lots of histamine into surrounding tissues correspond to raising in body core temperature and mental exertion. The prognosis of the disease is fairly comforting because cu tends to disappear by themselves. However, high percentage of cu sufferers tend to retain the condition for several years.
The key of controlling cu is to seek professional medical help (specialis in immulonoly or urticaria allergist) Exercise every morning may reduce severity of cu since the condition tend to exhibit refractory period after breakouts. This period may provide opportunity to live hive free through out the day. So be happy and think positive. One day we will be cured from this condition. In the mean time; hang tight and try to search for ways to minimize the attack. B vitamins might help. If antihistamine work for you then take it. Aside from rare cases of severe allergic reaction, antihistamines are pretty safe to take for long duration for individual with healthy liver and kidney. Combination of antihistamine (xyzal) and singuliar can be effective for sone cu patients. Try to stay from steroids. They can worsen cu condition in some patients. I hope this help. Gotta go. Cheer up and be in good spirit. This is surely not the end of the world :)
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I also have suffered from cu for 4 years now. This cobdition dramatically decrease my life quality. Somehow, once body core temperature certain threshold, mast cells and basophils begin to exocytose (secrete) histamine and other inflammatory factors into tissues underneath the skin. These cytokines (histamine etc) interact with
target receptor located on my cell types. Endothelial cells (cells made up capillarie wall) express H 1 receptors on their cell membranes. Histamine released by leukocytes will bind to these H 1 receptors, relaying specific instruction for these cell to response. One of the cells' responses is shrink in size. This leave gaps between endothelial cells made up blood vessels (cause capillaries to become porous) ,allowing blood to exudate into the surround tissues, which apear as a distinct tiny rounded lesions (hives) histamine and other inflammatory factors (prostagladins etc) causes others irritation sensations such as itchiness. Current knowledge suggest that cholinergic neural pathways may be involve with this condition. Sympathetic neurons release acetalcholines ( neural transmitters) which react with cholinergic receptors on target cells may somehow cause mast cells and other cells (mainly leukocyte) release inflammatory factors to the tissues, result in wide spread hives cover large area of the body.
There is NO cure for cu. This is simply because we currently do not understand detail mechanism of cu development. All we know is that mast cells dump lots of histamine into surrounding tissues correspond to raising in body core temperature and mental exertion. The prognosis of the disease is fairly comforting because cu tends to disappear by themselves. However, high percentage of cu sufferers tend to retain the condition for several years.
The key of controlling cu is to seek professional medical help (specialis in immulonoly or urticaria allergist) Exercise every morning may reduce severity of cu since the condition tend to exhibit refractory period after breakouts. This period may provide opportunity to live hive free through out the day. So be happy and think positive. One day we will be cured from this condition. In the mean time; hang tight and try to search for ways to minimize the attack. B vitamins might help. If antihistamine work for you then take it. Aside from rare cases of severe allergic reaction, antihistamines are pretty safe to take for long duration for individual with healthy liver and kidney. Combination of antihistamine (xyzal) and singuliar can be effective for sone cu patients. Try to stay from steroids. They can worsen cu condition in some patients. I hope this help. Gotta go. Cheer up and be in good spirit. This is surely not the end of the world :)
Helpful - 0
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