Eleven months ago I had a titanium alloy dental implant along with a sinus lift and bovine bone graft. The surgery was successful and the implant has since integrated with the bone. One to two months after the surgery I started having cramps in the lower extremities that progressed to constant aching in the feet and knees. Five months after the implant I elected to have the swine flu vaccination which resulted in a numb feeling and tingling in the extremities along with diarrhea and dizziness that subsided after a few days. Since then the tingling has combined with the aching in the lower extremities and progressed upward to include the thighs. Exercise makes all of the symptoms worse, as I experience severe aching and muscle twitching after any kind of physical activity. A MRI of the brain and neck revealed increased areas of signal in the brain not consistent with ms. Blood tests suggest autoimmune disfunction (positive ana, antithyroid antibodies, high IgG for parvovirus and EBV and CMV without being conclusive of connective tissue or thyroid disease. A cone beam ct scan revealed an inflammatory process in the sinus above the implant and apical periodontal inflammation on the tooth behind the implant which was also giving me night fevers. I have since had the root canal retreated on the tooth that was being blamed for my mouth discomfort. This has resulted in a 100% improvement in the pain and feverish feeling emanating from THAT tooth, but I still have an strange irritating sensation emanating from the implant that extends to the cheek, nostril, and eye above the implant. I have a feeling the implant is the cause of the mouth trouble and wondering if it is the cause of my neurological symptoms as well. My physical activity has been reduced to a minimum compared to the level of physical activity previous to the surgery. I wonder if the implant does not show the typical symptoms of rejection because of nightly bronchial and nasal steroid inhalations. The implant looks good on scans and xrays. I am not so good. I am living a life of an inactive person because I have no tolerance for exercise. I love to exercise and my dogs need a walk!!! Today I went for a lower back MRI and had a hard time holding still because of feeling crampy and cold.
All of the docs say it is a coincidence that any of my problems started shortly after receiving the implant. I have sent blood in for the Melisa test, but wonder if a reaction will show being I was not able to refrain from using inhalers for five days. The implant has adhered to the bone and looks "perfect". I am ready to get it out and praying I can return to my normal level of activity. Is there anyone out there with some information that could help?
Am I the only one???? I don't think the ADA or the implant manufacturers want to investigate the possibility of this lucrative procedure being a problem for anyone, so it is hard to find any data supporting my suspicion.
Wow, I feel like Im looking in a mirror. I had upper and lower jaw surgery 3 years ago and my health has never been the same. I was given 4 plates and screws in the mandible and maxilla and got the same story about the bioavailability of titanium, but I question it. I have done some moderate research over the last few months and I found one excellent study about a very small percentage of patients having significant health systems since receiving Ti implants. I wish I would have bookmarked that study but even only spending about 20 minutes researching last night after reading your post I came up with the following... (I'll post excerpts in another response,) but as far as what I experienced, I developed some serious pains in my right foot about 6 or 8 months post op. I never put the two together, but I also noticed my overall recovery was taking quite awhile. Fatigue, light-headedness, weakness and confusion, but the pain in the foot started to spread. It ultimately moved to both feet and now basically my lower limbs are just shot. Just like you, prior to all this I was quite fit and active. I actually was up to working out 6 days a week, and doing heavy cardio on top of weight training. At the moment, I dont think I'll be able to work a year from now, at least a full 50-60 hour work week, if I continue to decline as rapidly as I have been.
I havent moved forward as aggressively as you in my testing because I have to start from square one with another maxilliofacial surgeon and to be honest, I am the type that waits too long to see their doctor and so I keep thinking if I ignore this, it will go away, but I can no longer stand how bad my health has become.
Just out of curiousity, when you did the MELISA, did you have testing for other problematic metals? I know I read somewhere that Ti implants arent pure Ti like people assume. Im not a metalurgist, but I believe the article said it was really an alloy that has properties of other metals that are known to not be as "bioavailable" (such as nickel).
I found a book online called The Atlas of Craniomaxillofacial Osteosynthesis
Its a medical book for sale and you can only see a couple pages, but from the index there was a whole chapter on plate removal due to immunologic response.
Allergic reactions to metal implants:
Influence of wear debris
Properties of implant materials and particles. The release of potential allergens
like nickel, chromium or cobalt depends on composition, surface modification
and chemical or physical corrosion factors. Low pH and low oxygenation of
adjacent tissue may influence metallic surface – even leading to titanium release
in surrounding tissue . ”Hidden” nickel contamination of titanium materials may
result from manufacturing processes
FROM THE TRAUMA ORTHOPEDIC JOURNAL
Another example is 6 titanium implants introduced into the jaws of a 49 year woman.
All the implants were of IV degree titanium: LIBB implant, cylinder implant and the
Brånemark type. It was a part of research project supervised by Ethical Commission. A
serious clinical and radiological reaction followed around all the implants, which made
the removal of the implant necessary. After which the allergic ailment was healed.
Histological: irritation reaction and setting of the cells of intrusive object and the
process of fibration
FROM A SPANISH STUDY
Background: In dentistry, allergic reactions to Ti implants have not been studied, nor considered by professionals. Placing permanent metal dental implants in allergic patients can provoke type IV or I reactions. Several symptoms have been described, from skin rashes and implant failure, to non-specific immune suppression.
Objective: Our objective was to evaluate the presence of titanium allergy by the anamnesis and examination of patients, together with the selective use of cutaneous and epicutaneous testing, in patients treated with or intending to receive dental implants of such material.
Material and methods: Thirty-five subjects out of 1500 implant patients treated and/or examined (2002–2004) were selected for Ti allergy analysis. Sixteen presented allergic symptoms after implant placement or unexplained implant failures [allergy compatible response group (ACRG)], while 19 had a history of other allergies, or were heavily Ti exposed during implant surgeries or had explained implant failures [predisposing factors group (PFG)]. Thirty-five controls were randomly selected (CG) in the Allergy Centre. Cutaneous and epicutaneous tests were carried out.
Results: Nine out of the 1500 patients displayed positive (+) reactions to Ti allergy tests (0.6%): eight in the ACRG (50%), one in the PFG (5.3%)(P=0.009) and zero in the control group. Five positives were unexplained implant failures (five out of eight).
Conclusions: Ti allergy can be detected in dental implant patients, even though its estimated prevalence is low (0.6%). A significantly higher risk of positive allergic reaction was found in patients showing post-op allergy compatible response (ACRG), in which cases allergy tests could be recommended.
YOU CAN FIND THE FOLLOWING ON A FEW DIFFERENT SITES. ITS NOT VERY PROFESSIONALLY WRITTEN AND I DONT KNOW WHO THE AUTHOR IS, NOR DO THEY REFERENCE STUDIES, BUT I THINK A LOT OF IT RINGS TRUE.
Titanium is NOT Biologically Inert
Titanium implants release metal ions into your mouth 24 hours a day, and this chronic exposure may trigger inflammation, allergies, and autoimmune disease in susceptible individuals. They are a precursor to disease.
Cases of intolerance to metal implants have been reported over the years, and the removal of this incompatible dental material has resulted in reduced metal sensitivity and long-term health improvement in the majority of patients.
Titanium has the potential to induce hypersensitivity as well as other immunological dysfunctions.
One study investigated 56 patients who developed severe health problems after receiving titanium-based dental implants. These medical problems included muscle, joint, and nerve pain; chronic fatigue syndrome; neurological problems; depression; and skin inflammation.
Removal of the implants resulted in a dramatic improvement in the patients’ symptoms, as well as a decrease in many patients’ sensitivity to titanium.
FROM A GREAT GERMAN STUDY ABOUT A WOMAN WHO CAME DOWN "with myalgia and arthralgia predominantly in the knees and small joints of the hands and feet, with morning stiffness lasting at least 2 h. AFTER RECEIVING Ti IMPLANT.
CONCLUSION:Clinicians should be aware of the possibility of implant-related immune activation when patients develop symptoms of arthritis after receiving implants. Diagnostic testing by TNF-release assay could be a diagnostic tool in these patients, although comprehensive studies are needed to test the validity of this method of diagnosis in broader populations. The arthritic complaints were alleviated in the case patient following removal of the implant.
SITED PAPER COMMENTS IN A PhD STUDY
The extensive use of metal implants in orthopedic surgery as well as in dentistry calls for a general attention to their biological safety. Titanium (Ti) is used for many types of implants and is generally considered a safe metal to use in implantation. However, it has been shown that particulate debris, also in the nanoscale range, are released from implants. These particulate debris may cause health problems either at the implant site or in distant organs (Frisken et al. 2002).
Thanks. I have read some of the info. you refer to. A 2002 study published by the "Journal of Materials Science: Materials in Medicine" reveals that aluminum leaks diffusely into the surrounding bone of dental implants. Apparently none of what we are reading is of any consequence to the conclusions of the safety of dental implants for the American Dental Association. Alot of the research reveals what can support the multi-million/billion?? dollar medical and pharmaceutical industry, I think.
I was able to get the materials specification from the manufacturer of my dental implant in order to be tested for a reaction to these materials via the Melisa test. I read somewhere in an orthopedic journal that there is a lymphokine test that is related to the lymphocyte transformation test Melisa offers. None of the various healthcare providers have offered this to me. You should talk to your surgeon about getting the materials specification of what is in your body so you can be tested for it. I expect the results of the Melisa test later this week, so I will let you know.
Meanwhile I am going to an oral surgeon this afternoon for a consultation on the removal of this implant. I may be doing this regardless of the Melisa test, as I don't know what else to do. I would like to get back my life!! I feel sorry for you, as the materials in your jaw are much more extensive and a single dental implant.
Oh--I asked a dental hygenist who has practiced for 30 years if she had ever heard of something similar to my situation. A friend of hers also had an implant which had adhered to the bone. This person also started having a myriad of health issues, and so had the implant removed and did start feeling better. This would contradict my periodontists' assertion that osseointigration of implant material is evidence of no problem for your body. I gave her my number and asked for her friend to call me. I am waiting to talk to her.
I am just curious--have you suffered neurological symptoms, or is it just an aching in your muscles and/or joints? Do you have any symptoms in the area of the implants? Do you notice your symptoms are worse after any kind of activity?
Thanks for responding. I am so grateful I found your posting because I guess I feel validated by whats going on with me as I read more about what is going on with you. Plus, what I'm researching and also the story of the friend of your hygienist who had similar issues seems to confirm quite a lot.
For one, you are far more advanced and knowledgeable than where I am at with this. It didnt even occur to me to research the plates and screws used on me. The very unfortunate problem behind all this is that my surgeon is really incompetent. He completely oversold his skills and led me to believe he could fix all my problems. He did a horrible job and put the jaws back off center, cantilevered and rotated. Yes, all three axis of the 3D plane are wrong. On top of that, he collapsed the middle vault of my nose, so the right side caved in. I already had that fixed by an amazing surgeon but I know I have to get more follow up work on top of all the damage. After three requests he still wont release my file and many of the important pages from the hospital records out of his file have been copied so lightly, they are unreadable. I dont know if I'll ever get proper information from him.
As far the lymphokine test, is it possible for you to point me in a direction regarding that study? I have a wonderful internist at a major university and she is quite open to information I bring to her, so she may be willing to help me move forward in regard to all this. She is definitely aware of my health changes and she has mulled over the concept that I have a fibromylagia, but my instinct leads me back to this all being started within months of post op. I remember in my earlier research the study that mentions it takes a few months post op for symptoms to manifest, and that is in line with how mine progressed.
As far as neurological, yes. Outside of poor mental focus and a bit of memory loss, the one thing that bothers me a lot is a pulsing that occurs in the eyes. I know that sounds weird, but it wasn't a typical twitch, but a pulse that occurred intermittently for awhile and moved back and forth between one eye and the other. The first time it happened I became totally alarmed and ultimately went to my ophthalmologist who could find nothing wrong. It happens every once in awhile without warning and I have sort of become used to it, but I have no other explanation.
And yes, my mental focus has dwindled significantly. Anything that takes exerted effort just leaves me scatter brained.
I also want these plates out. I have pain around them still, but I was chalking that up to how off my bite is because of his poor surgery, but now Im more concerned that its direct inflammation and bone damage that is continuing.
I am anxious to know how your visit with the oral surgeon goes. I tend to agree with you, if I am understanding your point on that many people who work in the field are either not aware of, or wont admit to the problems with Ti. I think the bandwagon has been well established that its an inert, bioavailable material, and most dont want to hear any different.
After communicating with you, I know Im going to have start moving forward with tests and looking at options. I think my internist will help me as much as she can, but I have lost faith in the oral surgeon community. Plus, my removal will be major surgery, but I know I have to do something to get my normal life back.
So, from the math in the Spanish study, about 1 out 150 or 180 (depending on how you read the numbers) have an immunologic reaction to Ti. And then take into account how many people dont relate their ailment to the implants and get a misdiagnosis from another physician so they dont figure into the real numbers. I could see in real life how that number of occurrences may be actually higher, but the number correctly diagnosed may be lower.
I really like my doctor but she seems to be going in a wrong direction with this and wants to categorize me with fibromyalgia. Thats why Id like to bring her some information and see if she'd help with the lymphokine and MELISA tests.
I think those odds are just high enough so that the oral surgeon community isn't/or doesnt want to be aware of them so that it is an issue.
You can go to www.melisa.org and find out about ordering the test yourself. They will tell you to get a materials specification list of the implants you have. I think I read somewhere that the lymphokine test is a more updated term for lymphocyte--maybe an orthopedic surgeon could help you. I didn't want to spend more time and money going to another surgeon to find this out, but maybe one who does joint replacement on a regular basis would be someone familiar with this kind of testing.
I scheduled an appt. with the oral surgeon to have the implant removed. I am also going to consult with the periodontist who installed the implant about having it removed. I will go with whoever I think can do a better job. My husband went with me to the oral surgeon & made the comment "Oh, I think they think you are a little crazy". At least I have a spouse who knows the effect these symptoms are having on our lives!!
A few months after the implant I started having cramping in the lower extremities that evolved into a constant ache in the feet and knees. I thought perhaps I was developing arthritis and at the time did not make a connection to the implant. A few months later I was silly enough to get the swine flu shot at the local health dept. and had a bad reaction to that. Neurological symptoms include burning pain in the knees as well as aching in the forearms and a numb feeling in the left hand. My right leg is also quite painful and I have no tolerance for exercise. Never in my life have I ever been so inactive for such an extended period of time. I am worried that these symptoms could be transverse myelitis as a symptom of ms, but I also have an itchy annoying feeling in the area of the implant and always feel like I have a low grade infection in the area. Sensitivity to metal can cause neurological symptoms, so this is why I think my symptoms may be related to the implant.
Today I saw my allergist (all I do is go to dr. appts!) and she said that if my body had a problem with the implant that it would be loosening at the site. I wish this would happen!!! She also said there is no evidence that having an implant of any kind will produce problems with autoimmunity or the symptoms I am having in other parts of the body. ---I guess all those women with health issues due to the breast implants are delusional!! So apparently none of what I am saying or feeling has any basis in reality or science. This is pretty much what most health care practitioners say.
Meanwhile, my health and energy levels continue to decline. I was not able to get a removal date until the 24th. The periodontist wants me to wait until the permanent filling is in the tooth they did a retreat on the root canal on, and for a month after that to see if the feeling in my mouth will go away. He also says that he is 100% sure that none of my symptoms are related to the implant. He just does not get it.
Next week I am going to an ENT to talk about the inflammation of the sinus above the implant and to ask his opinion, so I will let you know how that goes.
--I am supposed to have the results of the melisa test at the end of this week, and tomorrow is Friday. I will let you know about that.
The surgeon who won't release your files?? It is the law that you are entitled to your health records, and you should be able to read what you get. It is also illegal to alter the information on your records.
I did encounter some resistance or maybe it was nervousness when I inquired about the materials used in my implant. I told them that either they could get me the information, or that I would get someone to get it for me. It is material in my body that I have paid for--give me a break!
Sorry if sound wound up--all of this has been trying on my patience!
Please feel free to be wound up... Ive been wound up over this for a few years. Yes, this doctor turned out to be about the slimiest person I have ever dealt with. (You know the old saying, someone had to graduate at the bottom of their medical school) I fell for his sales pitch in him telling me everything I wanted to hear. I had the procedure to help my sleep apnea, and now I'm in more pain, I breathe worse because of his sloppy work and collapsing my middle vault, and both upper and lower jaws are crooked. Also, as my dentist verifies, this doctor "made the deepest incisions I've ever seen" for a surgery like mine, and he wont release my full file (I've seen it on the desk, its probably 50-75 pages long. They will only release 9 pages.)
So, I can totally relate to whats going on with your legs and feet. As I said, mine started in one foot, but over time spread to both feet and legs. What I find fascinating was the first paper I ever read claimed the number one complaint of symptoms regarding allergic reaction to dental Ti implants was chronic sinus inflammation. I had to get my nose basically gutted and rebuilt with rib cartilage because the jaw surgeon was so sloppy and invasive. But even before the rebuild, I developed chronic sinus inflammation. My nose/sinuses felt "swollen" inside and it was hard to breathe, but I wasnt typically congested. It is like this to this day.
Isnt it tremendously aggravating when physicians just flat out say "this definitely isnt related to the implant?" Dont you just want to say, "Hey Doc, let me stick a hunk of metal in your body, and you know, if it bothers you, I'll tell you that you are crazy?" Physicians are so dogmatic to trust a study (you know, the one done by the manufacturer which is being pitched by the good looking medical sales rep with the glossy brochure) over their own patients real life symptoms, that they are really jeopardizing the patients well being.
Well, Im sorry you are going through this because I certainly know what you are up against. I'll keep checking back here if you dont mind keeping me up to date. You are giving me inspiration to want to move forward with my own issues.
I am thinking an attorney could get your file for you. It sounds like you really have endured some pain and suffering!
Another symptom I forgot to mention is that I have taken 3+ separate courses of antibiotics for pain in the area of the implant that is accompanied by a fever and malaise. The pain and fever returns after I stop taking the antibiotics. I woke up this morning with pain and a sick, feverish feeling. Fortunately, the periodontist who installed the implant called me in another course of antibiotics and I am going to see him on Monday. Last I heard he wants me to wait another month+ to see if things will "calm down". I am tired of talking--I want this thing out!
If it is any consolation, the periodontist who performed my sinus lift/bone graft/implant did a technically sound job. It is just the material itself that does not agree with me. I suspect you would still be suffering, even if the job was done "right". Do you mind my asking, what led you to have the surgery in the first place?
Melisa did contact me & said they have preliminary results that need to be reviewed by the medical director. Hopefully I will have that info. on Monday.
Are you able to do any physical activity at all? My arms and legs feel heavy and ache, and this gets worse with any kind of activity. It would be a dream if I could get back my former level of physical stamina. I feel so weak & I just hate it! I have always been an active person. I am grateful I can still walk, but a life without activity is foreign--I want to go home!
In reading back a bit---you had this jaw surgery for sleep apnea??? Did you have recessed jaw that you were trying to move forward for better breathing? Did it help your apnea?
Sleep apnea has been another constant bother in my life. Up until all of this, I thought it was the worst thing ever. I felt like I was being tortured night after night--breathing through a straw that would keep collapsing. After I started using the cpap machine, my nose would swell (they tell me it is vasomotor rhinitis), and so the machine was ineffective for a long time. Nasal rinsing and sprays were ineffective. Finally I started using a timed-release sudafed a few hours before bedtime to keep the nasal passages open. After the sudafed I need to take a sleeping pill, but it is worth it.
I always thought sleep apnea was for the obese and big men who snore. It is embarrassing I have to wear a mask and drag around a machine like an old sick person you see at the airport. Life is weird....., but I shouldn't have complained!
Well as far as my files, this is my feeling. He has this woman who works at the front desk who in my opinion, is a snake in the grass. Had I been around the block a few more times I would have not fallen for his sales pitch nor their total unethical billing, not to mention file tampering. I admit, in the beginning I went in there wanting to hear how he could fix all my problems and he basically gave me a response I wanted to hear.
Also, my dentist who "knows" of this guy also said to me (after the fact, unfortunately) "Why did you go to him, he's not really known for doing complex surgeries like this." So, basically, he oversold his skills, albeit he is a certified surgeon.... just not very good at it. I can almost forgive that notion, but what I still get furious over is like a kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, when I started to tell him about all the things that went wrong, he turned into an evasive, lying snake.
So all in all, it was a nightmare... from billing to surgery to recovery to trying to figure out what went wrong.... just a nightmare. But in my first wave of trying to get second and third opinions, I met a couple of his patients who were disgusted as well with both how he runs his office and the end result. They both were looking for revisions, so 3 for 3 needing a repair job.
But what I meant to say at the top of this letter was Ive asked for my complete file 3x already, twice in writing. Unfortunately I never made copies or had any with me, and both the doctor and his secretary have lied to me sooooo many times, I think I need to go in there, make it evident I have two copies, bring in a witness and have them sign my copy. If I dont get it in 30 days, I file a complaint with the states attorney.
And just to clarify how bad they are... when it came time to pay my bill, (while I was still all swollen and recuperating and not yet aware of how messed up I was) I was having insurance issues, so they actually opened up other patients files in front of me and showed me their paperwork as proof that if I hounded my insurance enough, they will pay. They actually gave me photocopies of other peoples financial statements. I have more pages of strangers files than I do of my own!!!!
Now dont get me wrong, I am not a doctor basher. I tend to not always agree with many Ive seen, but for the most part I love my internist. Ive been seeing her for over 10 years and the guy who my nose was incredibly skilled. This maxfax doctor, though.... how people like that are allowed to practice is beyond me.
Anyway, back to your questions... whew!
Regarding apnea, yes, that was the reason for the surgery. I had a sleep study done because my internist said at some point, its like living with sleep deprivation. The study showed I was 1/2 point away on the scale (cant remember the acronym now) from being a "severe" case. I indeed have a small mandible that when I would lay on my back would sort of unhinge and even close up further, putting just enough weight and pressure on the throat to close it up and cause this apnea. It got so bad that in the middle of the night I would bolt straight up in bed gasping for air. I thought that only happened in the movies, but mine got that bad. Its a mechanical default in my case, not due to bodyweight. At best I'm 6 or 7 pounds over my ideal weight but this started being a problem ages ago when I was 10 or so pounds under my prime weight. Even moving the jaw several millimeters is apparently enough to open the airway to eliminate apnea.
I did talk to a CPAP specialist and she said CPAP helps, but the surgery is the cure. Well, in my case, it should have been, but I trusted a hack, so now everything is worse.
I wont lie to you, its a tough surgery. I do believe my recovery was very hard because the vault collapsed and I was in remarkable pain for so long. You have to be banded shut and eat liquefied food for weeks and weeks. The swelling remains for a long time and you basically need several weeks off from life and lay in bed sitting as upright as possible for 1 month at least, preferably longer. Its not easy.
The sad thing is I joined a couple yahoo groups of patients who are considering it, are about to go through it, or just had it done. I've looked at about 200+ cases where people come out looking great, and only about 5 or 6 look a bit off. I figured those are pretty good odds for such an invasive surgery, but lo and behold, my doc was right in that tiny percentage of not really knowing what he was doing. And I started this process in 2003. It took two years to research, find orthodontists, find a surgeon and lobby my insurance. Then at the end of 2005 I get braces for surgery (which cost 1500 dollars more than regular because you get 4 little extra hooks put on before surgery...) Then the surgery in 2007 and another in 2008 to fix the nose.
Seven years of chasing what I thought was an answer and I would have been better off to get a CPAP, and I am still not sure what is wrong with my health post op and trying to figure out how to fix the aesthetic mess the maxfax made.
And finally.... yes, burning hot knife pain in several areas of the feet and a hot knife a couple inches above right knee... really the bottom of the right quadricep. Also, general achiness in my legs which I have never had before and extreme fatigue that can last 3 to 7 days and then I'll be okay for awhile, even though I feel as if something is wrong. Its chronic, but not in intensity. A bit of a roller coaster but I dread the mornings. Absolutely dread having to take those first steps... its horrible, and when I tell people, they just kind of say, "whatever... everybody ages," but I know something is seriously wrong.
Since my surgery, like you, Im on clarinex-D 24 hour dosage, with lunesta for sleep and celebrex for pain. Pre-surgery I was on nothing and worked out pretty regularly, sometimes 2x a day, weights and cardio split.
Now, I ache and hobble around....
I think instead of going into a long winded story of what I think is going on with me, I'm just going to start telling people I have heavy metal poisoning. When people hear the word poison, they tend to take you more seriously.
Cut and pasted from a heavy metal toxicity website:
As an example of the scope of a heavy metal's toxicity, lead can affect the nervous system, gastrointestinal system, cardiovascular system, blood production, kidneys, and reproductive system.
Symptoms of heavy metal toxicity include mental confusion, pain in muscles and joints, headaches, short-term memory loss, gastrointestinal upsets, food intolerances/allergies, vision problems, chronic fatigue, and others. The symptoms are so vague that it is difficult to diagnose based on symptoms alone.
As if sleep apnea isn't bad enough....Your surgery for it is the worst thing that has ever happened to you! I have a strong jawline and have never been obese. My neck is actually quite thin. An oral surgeon I consulted with regarding the removal of my implant tells me people with apnea have an airway much narrower than the normal population. Looking back, I think I have suffered from apnea for years. In college, when I was in the habit of running (jogging, really) an hour a day, I would often wake up with my heart beating fast. In my 30s I would wake up in a sweat alot of the time. I just thought I was dreaming. After I turned 40 sleep became impossible as I would wake up with my heart racing and in a sweat and then not be able to go back to sleep after sleeping maybe 1-2 hrs. I assumed it was insomnia until a dentist insisted I get a sleep study before he would help me with my tmj problems. I doubted the necessity of a study, as I do not fit the "profile". Sure enough, my apnea index was severe!
I am forturnate never to have been advised to have surgery to fix my problems, as they tell me the success rate is quite low for curing apea this way. I am sorry for you that you were mislead.
I am going to get this festering piece of hardware out of my skull, and hopefully sooner rather than later. I cannot survivie this torture and feeling ill much longer. What exactly do you have in your jaw? Plates to extend the mandible? Maybe you will have to go to a progressive teaching center for dentistry.
I am not a doc basher, either. I just desire to stay away from them should I be fortunate enough to recover from this!!
Oh--I had an eye exam today, and the optometrist said he sees no sign of pathology as would usually be present with ms. He told me he had all of the metal fillings and work removed from his mouth years ago. He told me via some kind of testing that he had high mercury levels from eating lots of tuna. He said chelation therapy is effective in reducing metals in the body, but does not recommend the type one would get with an IV. He recommended something called Cardio Clear EDTA sodium that I think he purchases on line from a company called Health Freedom Nutrition. I am going to try it after I get this piece of crap removed from my body. I don't want to take anything that would thin the blood before surgery.
I will let you know what the Melisa test reveals when I get the results. It will be good for you to see if I get better after I get my implant removed, as your implant work sounds like more of a challenge to remove.
I have been following your story along with brokenjaw.
Very interesting since I too am experiencing some leg and joint pain
since my dental implant.
Sept. 21, 2009.
I have done research and have found a good surgeon, who has a lot
of experience removing these implants.
Although mine has adhered to the bones nicely. I started getting
a joint pain in my elbows that I asked the dentist about right away.
It has spread to my shoulders and wrists.
I sent my blood to Melissa and am very anxious to hear what your
I am in contact with a woman in Chicago who had an implant 2 years
ago and suffered extreme joint pain and trips to the e.r.
She finally had her impant removed and I am awaiting news on how
she is feeling.
Apparently, we are all out there. Many dentists/doctors just don't want
to admit that we exist.
My implant was put in perfectly and the dentist did a great job. But
because I am not showing any of the typicel signs, they feel I had a
Very grateful and I have found a qualified very experienced surgeon who
is able to remove this metal, once I research it and know that is the direction
I want to go.
I live in the Philadephia, Pennsylvania area and can recommend him, if
you every need another opinion. I do not know where you are located.
Please keep me posted, and I will do the same for you.
Im near Chicago... is it possible to get the name of the doctor who removed the implants of the woman you are in contact with? I have found the name of the maxfax who seems to have a stellar reputation in Chicago, but I am also prepared that he will, like other docs, say "Its not the implant causing your problems..." so having a back up plan will be good.
Oh, yes. I have a "successful" implant also. Only I feel horrible!
I just sent a note to brokenjaw about another website I found--www.orthopedicanalysis.com. There are many references to the validity of the lymphocyte transformation testing for metal sensitivity. If I would have known about it perhaps I would not have had to send my blood to Switzerland.
It is strange after many months of feeling ill and much medical testing that not: my general dentist, the periodontist (who placed the implant), primary care doc, 2 nurse practitioners, 2 neurologists, 2 oral surgeons, allergist, or rheumatologist would tell me about this testing. The allergist did say he was not "impressed" with the reliability of lymphocyte transformation testing. I am not impressed with spending so much time and money and still feeling ill with no answers. I am so incapacitated physically that I have no choice other than to get the implant removed. I also have constant pain in the area of the implant, and a feverish feeling that is relieved by antibiotics.
I live in Northern Nevada and one of the oral surgeons I consulted with did not want to touch the implant as it is fully integrated with the bone. The other, who has practiced for 30+ years said he has removed "a few" osseointegrated implants during his 30 years. When asked the reason for such removals, he stated "psychological reasons". I bet. Tomorrow I will consult with the periodontist who installed the implant and ask if he can do as good a job taking the implant out as putting it in. Can you ask your surgeon how I would go about finding the most experienced person at removing implants on the West Coast?
I may just go with the perio-guy, as he is does the most implant surgery in the area.
Yes, I have plates to extend the jaw, but they are very small... but still, more hardware than I want. I believe each plate has 2 screws, so its a total of 4 plates and 8 screws.
Hahaha... I shouldnt be laughing, but again, another lie from my doc. He told he had phenomenal success with this surgery, but as I said, I met 2 of his other patients, and they both were having complete revisions with other doctors. I guess in a way he was right... phenomenal success at taking their money and screwing people over.
As far as the removal for me, yes, I do believe its going to be a major ordeal... not as bad as the surgery as there wont be any bone cutting, so I will be able to eat within about a week, but still, pretty intense. I've read of people getting theirs out on the yahoo board, but there are so many postings there, its hard to wade through whats applicable to the information I'm looking for. I should start researching to see if people are having symptomatic problems that we are speaking of. To be honest, the majority of postings are from people about to go through it, so its hard to follow through and I lost interest after my surgery, but maybe I can find some more info there.
I'll post my findings if I should come across any helpful information.
I've been told I should try chelation as well. My sister, who has fibromyalgia, recommended malic acid and magnesium/calcium. I swear it helps control inflammation when I have severe flares, but as far as Im concerned, the more I read, and since chatting with you, and seeing others come on board, the more Im convinced we are suffering from "heavy" metal poisoning. I put the heavy in quotes because I believe Ti is not considered a heavy metal, but to my understanding, these so called Ti implants are not pure Ti like the dental professionals want you to believe.
I'd be incredibly curious to find out who actually manufactures and sells these implants.
ok, I'll try to make this quick, as when I tell people this, they tend to look at me both with disbelief and a bit of horror.
I work as an audio tech, and while I kind of fell into the job, I know most of my peers got into it to do music and TV and what not.... but unless you are a top engineer, what pays the bills is corporate work, and of any segment, by far and wide, the deepest pockets are pharmaceuticals.
If you dont know what an "ad board" is, its an advisory board that is set up by pharma companies that are pushing their drugs through the FDA. These meetings are made up of researchers, marketing people and doctors who are testing the drugs before their release. Thats where I come in. By law, these meetings have to be electronically documented. Its big money... no... its HUGE money.... no other industry has the money that pharma does.
So, in the past few years, I've sat, like a fly on the wall, recording hundreds of "ad boards." 90% of the time, after I set the mics and the recorders, I zone out. The medical vernacular is over my head, but I have enough life experience to know when the researchers and the marketers arent "thrilled" with what the doctors are reporting... know what I mean??? So if 20 doctors are reporting that drug XYZ is causing tumors or illness or premature death, you can see how the drug reps start to fidget and get nervous. I've always wondered how much of this information gets "cherry" picked at the end of the day and how much gets buried. I mean, they may have invested a tens of millions of dollars and now they are getting feedback that its a failure... that doesnt sit well with the corporations...
So, I have a friend who is dating a surgeon. I asked him is he ever did an ad board and he said no, he's been asked, but he has no interest. So I would think most doctors and surgeons dont see how this side of the industry works. Instead, they are probably trained in school to read reports and believe, altruistically, about the info they see... but if they ever sat in on an ad board, they may think differently about the accuracy of what drug reps are selling and what the glossy brochure is reporting...
Indeed it does.... people forget Im a fly on the wall, and I'm pretty shocked at what comes out some of these peoples mouths... you can start to see who, in the medical field is in it because they want to help people, who is in it for the money, and who is burnt out and should probably hang up their stethoscope. I actually heard one neurosurgeon who worked in a city in a rural area say, "IF some dumb ******* hillbilly gets kicked in the head by a mule, I dont feel like getting up at 3 in the morning to save his sorry ***..."
Yes, its true. Word for word, its true... I'll never for get that line.
Thats the type of people who we are trusting with our health.
But if it werent people like my internist or ENT who are amazing and skilled and decent people, I would have lost complete faith in the medical industry after sitting in these meetings.
So, all that being said, I am very curious who is making these implants, if they had to get FDA approval and what their findings were. By law, they have to have documentation of the testing done... what made it into those final reports and what was, lets say, overlooked...?
Hi. I did receive the Melisa test results and had a weak positive for Calcium Titanate I and II and Titanium Dioxide I and II. The the periodontist I saw today said that the titanium tested for has nothing to do with the titanium in a dental implant. Basically he thinks the test is bogus. I have an email in to Melisa asking why the 3 titanium substances I was tested for have nothing to do with a dental implant?
He also thinks there is no way any of my physical symptoms are related to the implant, and that the pain and irritation I feel (the tissue looks fine) is referred from somewhere else--another tooth, or my neck, etc.. At this point he might think the pain is from my mind, but nonetheless has agreed to remove the implant if it will make me "happy". So tomorrow @ 8:00a.m. I am going in to have this implant removed. I have the full support of my family and friends, so I am thankful for that.
If there is any lesson to be learned from this (don't we all ask why?), it would be that sometimes we need to do what we know is right, even if the "experts" are saying otherwise. I hope my experience will be helpful to brokenjaw and the others reading these comments.
Oh--I think my implant was manufactured by a 3i in Florida. I do believe that the implants are FDA approved, but then so are the silcone breast implants that have caused trouble for so many women. Money can buy almost anything these days. We really need to look out for ourselves, as the pharmaceutical industry has way too much influence in how medicine is practiced these days.
Hopefully I can make a steady recovery and will have good news to report to you all.:)
Hi--I thought I wrote in earlier today...maybe it was just to brokenjaw. Well, I did not get the removal done as I waffled on my decision + the doc thinks it is a bad idea. The decision to remove the implant has been postponed for now. He numbed the area and then used some instruments to scrape under the tooth abutment and put some medication (tetracycline) in the area. Right now it does feel better, though it does not explain the other systemic issues that have been ongoing. Also, what he did was something I asked for, as he does not see any sign of irritation or infection in the implant area.
Tomorrow I am going to see the allergist and an ENT to ask their opinions. Another diagnostic evaluation I have had for the dental area and maxillary sinus is a cone-beam CT scan. The cone-beam CT uses a much less radiation than a traditional CT and can really focus on the dental area. My films were evaluated by a maxillofacial radiologist, so this is a person who specializes in the area of interest. In my films, it was noted that there were inflammatory changes and mucosal thickening to the sinus directly above the implant. A traditional CT scan which had also been ordered had a report that the sinuses were "unremarkable." So it seems to me a big difference in the info. obtained.
Did you start with burning knees and feet after you had dental implant work done?
Sorry, I have been offline for the last few days. I just read up on whats been going on with you. Hmmm, how frustrating for you!!!
Just out of curiosity, did you mention that you have been reading postings about other people that, since having dental Ti implants, have been having 'very similar' symptoms? I think it has to be incredibly frustrating for you to have the perio be so closed minded. I know this would probably come off as being contentious, but have you asked him what studies he's citing as to why this isnt related to the implant, or is he simply going by what the manufacturer tells him. I know he's not going to like that because it sounds like a challenge and my guess is that wont go over well, but I wonder what his response would be. My guess is he wont have anything to show you except something provided by the manufacturer. Maybe Im wrong. Maybe there is a wealth of studies that show Ti to be inert. But again, my point in my last letter, unless you've seen these studies in action, it just becomes numbers on a page.
I mean, bottom line, no doctor wants to feel like they made an error because then it becomes a point of "will this patient want to be litigious?" But by continuous denial, which trust me, I've run into before, your health care provider basically leaves you with no answer and being in pain.
I agree with your comment. You have to be the biggest advocate over your own health, because no doctor can really take that role, even if they are skilled, honest and open-minded. No one knows your body and health better than you. At best, they can help you get to the root of the problem, but I firmly believe you have to be the leader in the process, not them.
Also, if I might ask, what is his reluctance at removing the implant at this point? Are there specific reasons as to the cons outweighing the pros?
Very interesting about the cone beam showing inflammation. When you wrote...
"He also thinks there is no way any of my physical symptoms are related to the implant, and that the pain and irritation I feel (the tissue looks fine) is referred from somewhere else--another tooth, or my neck, etc.."
...were you saying that he believes the inflammation shown in the cone beam is being caused by another tooth? If thats the case, dont you think he's kind of blowing you off and not really addressing the inflammation?
This study, albeit relating more to my surgery than yours, is pretty informational. Though the numbers per study very, they tend to be significant ~
"Fifteen of 142 patients (10.6%), 9 females and 6 males, required plate removal."
"Manor and Chaush found that 12% of plates inserted were removed."
"Bruzual in a study reported a lower plate removal rate (7%). "
"In the current study, 10.6% of plates inserted were removed."
So, yes, more hardware than what you might have, but pain and sinus problems were most definitely denoted. And those percentages arent anything to scoff at. 10% of problematic results is significant! Even if it were 2%, that means 1 out 50 people are going to have problems.
They make no reference to the logistics of the pain, but just make comment of patients having pain. Plus there is one sentence that simply refers to "contamination." That is certainly open to interpretation.
Anyway... please keep posting. I'm right there with ya...
Finally, a little support from doc! A well-established ENT with an excellent reputation looked at the conebeam ct scan of the inflammed area in the sinus above the implant. He understands why I feel better when taking antibiotics and also said that "something like this can wreak havoc on your whole system". He has seen this many times before. This same scan looks "normal" to the periodontist, an endodontist, and an oral surgeon.
The bad news is that he referred me to another oral surgeon for another opinion who thinks the scan looks "normal". He referred me to a neurologist because after all, the irritation and pain around the implant that feels better with antibiotics is a neurological issue! As for my other health issues, well, maybe I need to seek psychological help so that I can accept and adjust to my current level of physical capabilities regarding whatever disease I have, and (of course) this is not related to the implant. His "objective" opinion was significantly influenced by his review of my records from the periodontist, where I look like a "trouble maker" in the eyes of someone who wants to do a job, get paid for it, and move on. Admitting that the materials used might cause issue is not possible, as these people are too fearful of litigation. It's nice to know what their priorities are! It is amazing how arrogant and sure of themselves that some of these docs are, but why would any one of them want to admit that their treatment or the materials used could be contributing to health problems.
I am going to see the ENT again and see if he can help. If the implant is removed, will the inflammatory process in the sinus continue?
How absolutely, absolutely frustrating for you. I swear, this has got to be horrible... I know I am going to run into exactly the same thing. I have no idea how you havent completely lost it and started throttling some of these docs. Then you could at least give them reason to classify you as a trouble maker!!!!
I dont know what else to say. Im sitting here staring at the screen a bit speechless. You would think one doc would try and help, even if he may not agree... he would at least remove it. But yes, I know the arrogance all too well, and of course, the complete denial. They dont want to hear that they are using something harmful, even if this means causing pain to their patients.
I go to the oral surgeon who flip flops on me all the time. At one point he said he'd recommend the dental implants be removed. Then he changed his mind and said clearly there is no scientific study proving that titanium implants can cause the symptoms I have. Then went on to state I should be happy that my cancer didn't come back and that there are people worse off than I. Basically, running into the same issues - take xanax for stress due to mouth sores/tongue sores that we will now call stress related or geographical tongue. Which I know both are not the causes. I am interested in what study he said I may qualify for at either UCLA or USC. He just might shut me down. The skin issues (periodical hives) come and go - redness on knees same. I had no symptoms prior to dental implants. Cancer doc (oncologist) said to take the dental implants out. But she hasn't demanded it. Therefore, insurances both are saying it is the other dental/medical insurance problem. I'm stuck in limbo here. I live in Southern California and believe they are afraid of lawsuits. I am not interested in that - I am interested in being well.
You wrote in a post above that you are in contact with a woman from Chicago that had her implants removed. Did you ever hear back from her and how she is feeling? If you still contact her can you find out who her doctor is?
You are a cancer survivor, and now you have to survive the dental implant scenario! There must be someone in your area who would have experience with dental implant removal, as UCLA is supposed to have a great dental school. I would be interested to know what kind of studies are going to be taking place regarding dental implants.
How many implants do you have? Even if there are no studies concluding that dental implants cause systemic issues, I did have one oral surgeon agree with me that there is no 100% in medicine. So they can never say that100% of the time 100% of people are not going to have systemic effects due to dental implants. They can say it is highly unlikely, but not 100%. Ask him if the studies apply to 100% of the people 100% of the time.
I did consult with an oral surgeon early in this process who did admit to me that there still is a "whole lot" that is not known in medicine. He did not personally want to remove my implant, as it is not something he has had much experience with. Another oral surgeon I consulted said he has only removed "a few" osseointigrated implants in his 30 yrs. of practice "for psychological reasons". The last oral surgeon, as I posted above, was a piece of work.
Today I told a salesclerk with a missing tooth to be happy with her smile, as it beats living in implant hell. After we started talking she told me she has a relative who is living with constant infections around her implants. Talking to me cemented in her mind that she is a person with too many sensitivities and allergies to risk getting an implant. How I wish I would have had such insight!
I'm beginning to think we may have to result to "medical tourism" to deal with these problems. I dont think the US medical system is taking this as seriously, as the studies that confirm Ti allergy are all from other countries.
From a Spanish Study
"The results here are broadly in agreement with findings from other studies. The prevalence of titanium allergy in the current study ranged between 0.2%-1%, with other studies showing prevalence rates between 1%-3%. The reduced rates may be partly due to the relatively short follow-up, as some hypersensitivity reactions develop over a longer period. Although it is clear that the risk of allergy to titanium is very small, it cannot be disregarded."
I went to oral facial maxio surgeon yesterday, he's definitely recommending UCLA clinic. I went to a different dentist, referred by my boss at work. Nice people (both boss and dentist). The dentist insists it is not a dental issue and would like me to get Vitamin B definiciency tests. Have you all done that in the past? Have the dentists try to run you to doc for blood tests for diet deficiencies. I'll save up for the trip to Pennsylvania ... this is out of my network so to speak. But if the insurance companies realized an allergy is just that - causing more issues than to replace the implant with something else and then bridge the teeth (I had out 10 and 11 in front), they would save so much money. Thank goodness so far, no one can see the mouth/tongue uclers unless I show them.
You all will not believe this one.
Was on my way to the Jersey shore yesterday. Stopped to have a delicious
light lunch....salad, maryland crab soup and fresh bread.
Bit down on the crust on bread............broke off the tooth in the front of my mouth.
LEFTof my two front teeth.......Under the gum line...Cap, tooth everything off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The tooth I have been dealing with is the one to the RIGHT of my two front teeth!!
Luckily my dentist came off the golf course met me at 4 pm and I left his office at 7:15 PM
He is terrific....He operated on the gum removing it so we could get to the tooth....then filled a small cavity, then put in a post, then built it up, so that he could put a temporary
crown on it and did all this so that my partial would fit properly.
In six weeks (gum surgery will be healed) he wants me to see my periodontist just to
make sure the gum will look as good as it can...and then he will put a new crown on.
Ironically, this is exactly what happened to the right one and this procedure lasted for 2 years. Since we are dealing both times with a tooth that has already had a root canal and is therefore, not a strong tooth. Then the tooth cracked under the crown...and that is how I ended up with the implant.
My dentist did chuckle and say at first glance " well I guess we aren't going to have you go and have an implant in this one" I almost laughed out loud, just from my nervousness!!!! :-)
All this and I was trying to keep my heart from beating out of my chest during the procedure.
So for now, I have the partial to handle the first implant problem, since there is no cap on it
and a temporary cap is on the other tooth on the left.
Spoke with a girl in California who had no problem with implant going in. But is miserable when the crown was put in. Seems to be pressing on her two side teeth and the gum is
horribly irritated, bad blood under the cap coming out, etc.. Many dentists visits for her. Makes me worry about even thinking of putting a cap on my implant even if it remains in my mouth.
Why can't we all be sharks and grow new teeth back in!!!!
Everyone keep your spirits up. Somehow we will put all the pieces of this titanium
implant puzzle together. We have to make it better for those that come after us.
But for now, we all would like some answers.
Remember, I do have a good surgeon here in Philadelphia, that does have a lot of experience removing them.
Please be very careful who you have remove your implant.
My periodonist, who did a great job putting it in. Felt he could make things
worse by trying to remove it. He is the one that sent me to University of Pennsylvania,
chief of staff dental surgery to research this further. That is when I was sent to the
surgeon on his staff that has a lot of experience with this.
They could end up leaving slivers of the metal in your jaw.
I don't have the name of the surgeon it is downstairs but I can send it to you later if you would like.
Thank you for your concern. It would be good to have the name of the surgeon who has experience with removing the implants, so please post when you have it.
You are certainly due for a turn on your luck with your dental issues. I guess you will be praying every night that you can hang on to what you have, so as not to risk another implant. It is hard to believe there isn't more knowledge and information out there for people who have trouble. There must be more than just us.
Have your tried Lysine for your mouth sores? I used to get horrible painful sores on my tongue, sometimes with fever. Now I take Lysine several times a day if I feel one coming on, and I am no longer bothered with this problem.
Yes, I'm taking lysine 2x a day and staying away from SLS products and products containing titanium. I am told if I remove what is causing the "allergy," I will no longer have symptoms. I just cannot convince anyone to remove implants or crowns because there is no one particular tooth looking irate...more of a burning mouth/gum/tongue/throat issue. Taking Zyrtec for allergy-related symptoms.
I know you are all taking about dental implants, and I am dealing with post-op plates, but I am assuming they are all Ti. Well, I found more information from my procedure regarding removal....
From a University of California, San Francisco study:
Only a small number of patients (10.6%) develop complications from plates or screws that required their removal. In each case, prompt removal constituted adequate management.
They refer to only a small number (10.6%). In my opinion, thats not small. 1 out of 10 people having to go through another surgery is not small. Those odds are pretty bad actually, since its very, very invasive.
Anyway, just more proof people arent tolerating the Ti.
Have any of you heard of IAOMT?? I found this site and though there are a lot of links attached, I have yet to find any that deal specifically with Ti, as they seem more specific to mercury, though they might be a good resource to find a sympathetic oral surgeon who deals with Ti implants.
Their mission statement looks reputable-
The International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology (IAOMT) is an organization for that group of dentists, physicians, and allied researchers who consider biocompatibility to be their first concern, and who demand scientific evidence as their key criterion. Members of this group have, since 1984, examined, chronicled and supported research into the distinctions that can make dental practice more biologically acceptable.
On the right side of the home page is a menu for "Find a Doctor". Maybe this might be a good starting point to contact a dentist who may refer an oral surgeon who is more open minded to the idea that Ti is causing immunologic reactions.
Regarding the S.F. study--another issue is the definition of "complications." I would bet this means an obvious and localized reaction or infection. It is hard to find any recognition of systemic bodily reactions, like the ones you and I are having.
I would be interested in knowing if metal implants trigger autoimmune disease in susceptible individuals. Where are the studies on this? Spain? It doesn't seem to be on the radar for mainstream medicine in the U.S..
The biopsy of my mouth is where it was discovered that I had an allergy to whatever it was I put in my mouth and once I take it out it would be cleared up. However, the allergist said I was to hypersensitive at the moment for her to take any tests. They would come out with false positives. For some reason the oral surgeon flip flops and won't take anything out - i.e., crowns or dental lmplants. He now wants to refer me to that UCLA study. I'm frustrated as the dentists refer me back to medical and the medical doctors say it is dental. No one wants to deal. They all agree there is something very wrong inside my mouth and consider it out of their field. I'm in limbo. Blood tests for vitamin deficiencies today. Mostly B, folic acid and zinc. The dentist recommended I have that done. Then we could go from there. I'm a pawn. I just re-read my history. Before the dental implants = no symptoms. After = all symptoms. No study = no help. They will chalk it up to autoimmune (though oral surgeon said that's not true) and keep me comfortable - pain killers and xanax. I am not taking them. The implant doctor when put in the implants was fine up and until the crown fell out - then he pushed will all his 185 plus weight down on the crowns - yes, it hurt a lot - when he reglued the crown back on....what if it was just that? If I have the implants out - I also have a cleft palate - they say the palate could collapse (it is in writing) if they don't know what I'm allergic to - they don't know what to replace the space with. They don't want to take them out.
Hi all. One thing is for certain--we are all in a quandary over what to do!
Today I went back to the ENT who believes that the implant has something to do with many of my physical symptoms. I am so thankful for him, as at least he is interested in helping to solve the puzzle and help me to regain my health.
He has referred me to an infectious disease specialist, as he believes that there may be an infectious process going that will not resolve by simply removing the implant. I have been telling doctors and dentists for months that antibiotics resolve many of the symptoms, but to no avail. It is so fantastic to have a smart doc able to help! I will keep you all posted.
I still would like the name of an oral surgeon who has removed many of these osseointigrated implants, so post the name and # if any of you have one.
Oh you really are in a pickle, as it sounds like the hardware is holding up a good portion of your mouth. The most I got from my allergist was that it was a "foreign body" reaction, but he did not want to go out on a limb and say it should be removed. The ENT mentioned above likened the foreign body reaction to an infected sliver in your finger: "Yes, the antibiotics with help you feel better, but ultimately you need to remove the sliver."
I wonder if there is an allergist/immunologist somewhere who could help your system adapt to the implant material. I can live without a tooth, but it sounds like you would be jeopardizing the stability of your jaw. They can't expect you to go on like this!!
Do you all know what the below man made stuff is? The dentist who put the implants in is willing to remove them. Below is the note.
We can remove your implants and crowns, and do a bone graft after the implants are removed as well as the bridge. The bone graft material we can use for you is called Beta tri calcium phosphate. It is not human donor bone, but is man made.
My surgeon who has experience in taking these out. Felt it would be best not to do any grafting for me, although my periodontist was suggesting it at first, since I am sensitive to the titanium and he is worried that I may show sensitivity to something else and doesn't want to complicate matters for me.
If it is necessary for the stability of your jaw, etc. then it's a different situation.
Have any of you known anyone who has taken out the titanium and known that their symptoms went away? That's the big "what if" I can't answer personally yet. But that is like "what if" I win the lottery. All I know is that I had no symptoms until those went in. I'm going to see if we can not add anything. I think Serbin is right - if I can get away from adding anything - I should let the site heal and body. I'll keep you posted.
--So I was in my vetrinarians' office getting the dogs their vaccinations and telling him my woes. He said "you don't want to put ANYTHING in your body unless you absolutely have to." Thus, he has a bridge vs. implant in his mouth. How I wish I would have talked to him before I had this implant. HE (who graduated 2nd in his vet class) DOES NOT WANT ANYTHING IN HIS BODY.
Jerandi--At the least, your doc should discuss the options for bone grafting and explain the risks and benefits of each. I have heard that the autogenous graft, which is bone taken from your own body, has the least chance of rejection or foreign body reaction, but then you have a second incision or procedure. I am not sure a dentist or oral surgeon can do it that kind of procedure. I think you should research all of your options.
A co-worker of my husband (who has many allergies & sensitivities) developed a blood condition that resulted in the loss of his spleen after having a cadaver bone graft procedure on his hip. He, with a masters' degree in a scientific field, is convinced having the operation triggered his condition, but the docs say no. Of course.
Are you consulting with an oral surgeon who has experience in taking out implants? I would like to see a surgeon who takes out implants on a regular basis. The oral surgeon I consulted who has 30yrs. experience said he has only taken out "a few" osseointigrated implants over the years.
There is some interesting info. on dental implants at www.metronycdentist.com, click on Facts about the dental implant industry by Dr. Gulizio. I thought the FDA approval of implants was required, but according to this website it is not so.
Someone I know traveled to Dr. Bedrossian (www.sfimplants.com) because she needed dental implants that extend into her cheek bones due to extensive bone loss. Evidently this doc is such an expert that people from the East Coast travel to San Fransisco for this type of implant from him. She was referred to him from a dentist in Nevada.
--I hope she can get along better with her metal than we have!
Well another visit without lots of answers, but he did not think I had trigeminal neuralgia or ticdouloureux. I already knew this-it is a dull almost contant burn/ache emanating from the implant, folks. So now he can send a note to the oral surgeon telling him so. He suggested the Mayo Clinic in Arizona. I don't want to travel for more of the same.
What I would like to do is find people who have had the same kinds of issues after receiving titanium implants, and then had the issues resolved after the metal is removed. If you look online you can find (I found one posted from 1998 on another med site) other people having similar issues as us. It is frustrating because I have not been able to find the follow-up on what happens to these people. Do they vent about their ailments and then just get tired and go into a hole and die??? Do they get the hardware removed and then slowly get better and by the time they completely feel better forget about posting? Do they get hardware removed and stay the same? We need to find people who have had the metal removed and learn what happened.
A dental hygienist told me she knew someone who had an osseointigrated implant removed and then had her health improve. I gave her my number and asked if she would pass it on and have her friend call me, but so far no call. I would like to know.
Where are these people?
My brother had his dental implant removed. He said he thinks his doctor's name was Dr. Bass in the Palm Desert, CA area. The problem I have with my brother is finding the right doctor's name. His memory's not too good. The short version of the long story is his face got so swollen, they had removed his implant in the hospital I believe because he needed a bone graft and I think they took that from the hip. Anyways, he is perfectly better. He lives in NC now and trying to get info out of him is hard. He had mouth sores, incredible skin itching from what I remember, along with the swollen face and tonsilliths. His face was awful though. I remember it was really infected. If I had the name of that doctor, I'd be on my way to recovery. My brother and I aren't that close. I'll call my other brother to see if he can get more info on the dentist's proper name. He is on Facebook ... how do I send a secure message to you with his name on Facebook - then he would be happy to let you know everything.
Im still here, reading posts, and unfortunately in a lot of pain.
I've had another personal issue eating up a lot of my time, but now that is resolved, Im going to focus on these implants, so starting next week I'll begin to make appointments with MaxFax surgeons.
I am hoping they are a bit more receptive because it appears to me that simple protrusion and site pain is a justified cause for removal, but I dont know what sort of reception I'll receive. The protrusion is a valid complaint. You can run your hand along my jawline and feel all the metal work, so even just resting my jaw in my hand or sleeping with pressure along my face can cause pain. If this moves forward, its a hell of a surgery, but I'm willing to take that step if there is a chance it relieves the overall symptomology I'm dealing with.
I feel for you, as you have an extensive amt. of hardware. Since the implant the tooth adjacent to it required a retreat on a root canal done 25 yes ago.. Now that tooth hurts and is loose. On the upside this is fantastic because it gives me something to think about besides the implant pain. One thing did get better for me is the other bodily symptoms after I stopped taking the antibiotic used for sinus drainage (on implant side) and skin and bladder issues. When I looked at side effects of long term use of this antibiotic, it did have joint and muscle pain, as well as peripheral neuropathy on the list. Who knew? Nonetheless, the nasty pain around the implant continues and probably contibuted to the problems in the adjacent tooth. I have decided that unless the symptoms magically disappear once the adjacent tooth is healed, that the implant needs to come out. I cannot ignore what my body is telling me.
Go to www.*************.com and search for adverse reactions to a titanium marker clips after a breast biopsy. These poor people are dealing with breast cancer issues and then have constant pain and irritation caused by a titanium marker clip. There is a long thread of people who are having symptoms around the ti clip who experience dismissal from their physicians, because "nobody has a problem with ti." Right.
Next year at this time I hope to be spend the morning at the gym and the rest of the day doing something fun! I'll focus on that.
haha... yes, I gues they do have a problem with the words health & central spelled next to each other.
But using the above info, thats the address if others are interested.
Isnt it sad that the stock response is "There is no proof that Ti causes problems."
Wouldnt it be just so much fun to sit a doctor down and say.... "If, for one minute, you could put your arrogance aside, could you tell me if you have ever been on an advisory board? No? Well, you do realize that these manufacturers very often cherry pick evidence to push their drug or medical device through the FDA, or give you doctors the false sense of security that there are no problems, right? You do know that you occasionally are giving your patients something that is really toxic in nature and the information that a few upstanding and honest ad board doctors reported just happened to be buried or minimalized, right? Are you are aware that your profession is rapidly becoming nothing more than you being a highly paid prescription pad, and like a mindless robot, you spew back statistics that were told to you by a good looking drug rep who was hired less for their knowledge and more for how they look in a business suit? You get that, right? And when we trust you to do the right thing, like a good little puppet, you simply recite back what the drug company told you, because god knows how important that yearly salary is, regardless of you unintentionally inflicting damage on your patient... yet, not wanting to acknowledge it.... you understand all that, right?"
Very well articulated. It should be the duty of honest and caring docs to use their intelligence to help their clients discover and recover. At least I found one doc who is telling me the symptoms are in fact due an inflammatory response or foreign body reaction caused by the implant. Thank God for him!
Have you ever thought--what if my implants aren't the pure titanium or titanium alloy they are purported to be? I did notice the company that manufactures my implant has operations worldwide. I don't know, does that mean we could have medical devices manufactured in Mexico or China? Comforting thought.
If you look at dental and night and mare and dot and net (without the and) you can read the scary story of a lady in Texas. What do you think of her idea of decorating her vehicle with information on the offending practitioners? I don't know if I would want to be reminded every day, but I don't blame her!
Thanks for the info.. If you look up desert and oral and surgery ******* without and between the words you can find the Dr. Bass that may have operated on your brother. It looks like he also performs surgery for sleep apnea.
If you are going to go to the UCLA clinic it would not be too far for you, would it?
I have my letter from my dental insurance with my claim number. I see the dentist who put the implants in requested to the insurance to remove them. D6100, by report. Bone replacement graft - 1st site in quad per tooth, D4263. D2740 and D6245, porcelain crown and pontic - porcelain crown/ceramic. The insurnace wants me to fill in the questions re is this the initial placement of appliance ... (well it is clear it is the removal of applicance) ... and if no describe the original applicance, include multiple units (can they not read?), and reason for replacement. Then they will consider. Has anyone passed this phase or know of recommendations on how to? Shall I send every doctor / dental report? What's the easiest, efficient way of having them authorize removal of the big giant elephant in my body? So close to being free - yet so far.
I know you were talking to Serbin about itchyimplants and that made total sense to me. When my crown fell off ... the doctor who put the implants/crowns on, re-cemented the crown and pushed all his weight on the tooth...which makes sense why I could have these issues. His assistant helped with the paperwork for insurance...otherwise, we will be forced to take a loan and take them out. She said I should know within two weeks.
The oral surgeon said he'd refer me to the UCLA study. Told me to email his assistant and I have not heard one word back. It has been three to four weeks. Time passes and I re-read all the posts. I'm a little concerned about the "slivers" mentioned above regarding removal of the implants and I will ask about that as well as not having the bone grafting...to see what else from me he could use or if it is beyond his scope. It appears that not having anything inside my body (quoting someone above)...is the best course of treatment. I'll be quiet now. I have to wait for the referral process. But it sure would be nice to know how you all are doing.
Hello all, I have had a revelation of sorts in thinking that the implant started to itch and bother me after the surgery to expose the implant and attach the healing abutment and prosthetic tooth. I remember telling the dentist that the healing abutment had felt "itchy" before the prosthetic tooth was attached. He did not see any reason for my feeling such a way and was anxious to install the tooth. The itch/burn and symptoms have continued to get worse. I am thinking there is an infective component involved in all of this since the problems started when there was a place for bacteria to colonize in the space between the abutment or tooth and my jaw. Maybe this info. will help someone to help me. I am going to get another opinion from another dentist and or perio in hopes that someone can help me. I have learned from past experience that there is a doctor somewhere who will help, it is just a matter of finding him or her.
Ive actually been feeling so bad lately that even if I find a doctor to remove these, am I up for another surgery?
Just out of curiosity of those still reading, what was the evolution of your physical problems?
I had surgery in early 07. I cant remember exactly when, but sometime later I started having debilitating foot pain along the blade of the right foot. Eventually it spread through the entire right foot and eventually started to have the same symptoms in the left. As months went by, my legs also started to generally "ache."
Over the last two years, I've had continuous leg and foot pain, but overall feelings of tendinitis or arthritis in the entire body, along with a depressed immune system, waves of excessive fatigue and mental fog, cloudy thinking and confusion. That is not consistent, but comes and goes, but is rather frightening.
The actual pain along the jaw line is also something that comes and goes but with much more regularity than the other pains. Yes, I have pain at the site of the plates and screws, even three years later. It is not uncommon for the above body symptoms to flare up when the pain in the jaw flares up as well. I also get head and neck aches with these flares, along with a pulsing in the eyes. Basically, I have waves of widespread inflammation that has been common in the jaw since post op, but then developed in the lower limbs that eventually became completely systemic.
All of the above came about after my Ti implants. It wasnt immediate, so it took a long time for me to make the connection. But the site that makes commentary on plate removal also indicates that many patients took +6 months to develop symptoms.
Jerandi is right to review the drugs you are taking or have taken because recently I discovered that long term use of doxycycline can cause some of the symptoms I have been having. I have been taking it intermittently for years because of skin and bladder issues and then most recently for an infected feeling around the implant and sinus trouble above the implant. The drug had never bothered me before the implant, but maybe the "foreign body" reaction mentioned by two of the docs I have seen fits in here. Anyway, I just noticed one day that my symptoms seemed to worsen after taking the doxycycline, and I have improved since I stopped taking it. You may want to look at everything you are using and look up the side effects. It could be that the drugs interact differently when your system is being challenged by implant material.
Weird I had to figure this myself with all of the money I have spent on professionals.
Our symptoms are very similar. Maybe this information will help you.
If there is an infective component, which I have suspected in myself, the pain around the implant will return in a week or so. We will see.
Five days off the antibiotics and the familiar itch/burn around the implant is back. I am going to go to another periodontist for a consult and see if there are any options other than removing the implant.
I'm going in for impressions Monday. Beginning of removal process. Today has been a painful day...well - most days are aren't they .... but today more so than yesterday...yesterday more so than the day before. Anyways, point being - do you all think it could be something to do with whatever is in the gum tissue????? If they can't "cure" it with antibiotics = though some relief, but no cure - what is it that gets the gums so hot and painful??? The allergy to ti? The reason for my question is - what if when they are out (implants) - whatever it is that bothers the gums is still in the tissue? Does that make sense to you all? Regardless, I'm still going through with it. But this process is extremely costly - whether it is having opinions by other doctors/dentists and their "consult fee" @ $325 a pop or one even quoted $875 just to look at paperwork. The removal fees are more than the implant fees. Remember Curedsoon - if it is a true allergy, then there is just no other solution. For example, if you are allergic to cats - you can take allergy pills, but unless you remove the cat - you'll still have symptoms. Brokenjaw - I totally understand your fear ... I feel quite the same but never had symptoms of anything until after the dental implants. I go over my history and realize the day the symptoms appeared coincide with the implants ... that gives me hope that the removal will eliminate the problems. That and my oncologist said to remove them two years ago! She was very unhappy about the installation of implants and told me a handful of her patients had immune problems that went away once they removed the implants....so I'm praying I am one of those.
Thanks for the feedback and comments. That information on levaquin is a bit alarming, the more you research into it.
Jerandi, Good luck with starting the process of removal. Our thoughts are with you...
I have an appointment two weeks from now with a MaxFax surgeon who has a very good reputation. My internist, who is great, very smart, has a true caring for her patients and open minded, and another doctor Ive seen recently, didnt have any specific information that supported the idea that Ti can cause allergic reactions, but they were also both open to the idea that the possibility exists, though unfortunately, this is not their field, so we'll see what kind of response I get with the surgeon.
All that happened so far is the removal of the two caps over the implants. I have asked the implant dentist to take them out. He said he would - I wanted to eliminate other dental crowns as a possibility. The dentist filed down another crown that was bothering me. I still have same issues...and now a blood blister looking thing on the side of my gums. I am to meet UCLA dentists in October. So implant removal is on hold until after that appointment unless something happens before.
I think they are part of a research and clinic and also have a private practice. This was referred by my doctors - so I don't have to pay the $375 just to see me fee. I think this is the right direction. Let me know how the cone beam CT went.
I'm in the same boat. I had bone grafts and dental implants about 8 months after the grafts. Some time later I developed muscle pain,muscle loss and general weight loss and weackness, Also sore throat, stomach cramps and dizzy feeling.
The Dentists who is chair of a major local hospital had told me that the titanium implants would not give me any problems. This was a lie, a lie, a lie.
Titanium implants, whether dental or otherwise are toxic. A reaserch by Dr. Joseph Mercola (Mercola.com) says that these implants must be avoided because there are safer ones on the market like those made out of metal free zirconia.
I did not connect all these problems to the implants until recently and I asked the Doctors to have a surgeon remove them.
I threatened him/them .with a possible complaint with the State Office of Profesional Licensing and to take other actions. Finally, he will have them removed after taking a metal allergy test. I will take within days a Melisa test,which will cost me only $75, and hopefully it will show what I've always though: Toxicity/allergy to the titanium,vanadium,nickel etc. etc. and he will remove the 5 implants the sooner the better,
This is serious matter because many people have developed tumors due to the toxicity so time is of the essence.. These dentists who are peddling dental implants should loose their license and end up in jail.
I wish all of you luck.
After reading all your posts, after breakfast I am going to get in touch with the surgeon to remove my dental implant. I met with him once and he is set to remove my front tooth implant whenever I agree to a date. It has been one year since my implant was put in.
Although it has adhered to the bone nicely and I have had no complications or irritation around the tooth, I have been experiencing pain in my elbows which started within one week, since then pain has started in each of my joints, shoulders, knees, feet, toes, fingers, etc. My shoulder is so bad right now I cannot move it certain ways without almost screaming in pain.
I also have a ringing in my ears which started the first week after implant. My ear specialist isn't sure what causes it. He says sometimes these things just come with advancing years. Duhhhhhhh So he is waiting to hear if there is improvement after removal.
I am going to set up the removal date, but also want to have one more consult with the surgeon. My regular dentist wants to make a mold and be ready with a partial plate for
me since it is a front tooth and the surgeon said we may lose the tooth next to the implant because they are so extremely close. We are hoping not to but it is a possibility.
As soon as these symptoms started I told my implant dentist and said "can this be removed at any time" he said "yes, no problem". Well that is not true. After 6 or more weeks it gets more and more difficult to remove. My implant dentist was very good, but admits that I am definitely a learning tool now for him and lots of other dentists.
I have had a problem with medicines most of my life. Come to find out the common denominator in all the meds is titanium dioxide which can be causing the bronchial spasms when I take any type of medicine that contains the titanium dioixide. The docs
put this information together.......two weeks after my dental implant was put in!!!!
Although they say this is two different types of titanium and it is inert...I think they are
finding out that sometimes there is that one in a million patient!!!!!!
So now they are all looking to me to see what results I get when this is removed.
I hate to be the guinea pig, but hope that I can help lots of others with this imformation.
I live in the Blue Bell area 30 minutes from Philadelphia. My surgeon is associated with the Univeristy of Pennsylvania.
After I make the phone calls I will type back and keep you posted.
It is helpful to have your information. Thank you so much for keeping us updated.
OKay I am set to see the surgeon again, on October 5 at 11:15
Then the surgery will be set within the next two weeks following that appointment.
I want to meet with him first, just to review the surgery and how they intend to take it out, the anesthesia...can they knock me out :-) and to educate myself in
what "could" go wrong, but let's think optimistic. Sure hope they can keep the front tooth
that is so close to the implant.
The surgeon is:
Dr. Lee R. Carrasco, DDS, MD
Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery
250 King of Prussia Road
He has seen this, though extremely rare, and has removed implants like this before.
I had gone to 4 other local surgeons, who had no experience in removing them and
felt that it could not be the implant since it adhered so nicely to the bone........
I also have a ringing in my ears which started the first week after implant. My ear specialist isn't sure what causes it. He says sometimes these things just come with advancing years. Duhhhhhhh So he is waiting to hear if there is improvement after removal.
Don't believe anything about the "advancing years". You never had these problems until after you got the implants. Dentists and other Doctors will never admit to any errors or dangers. They want to make money and the fact that you may end up miserable with all the side effects and possible a stroke or a tumor of the bome marrow etc. etc, is .according to them, something that it would have happened anyway. Bull!
But the dentists who lied to fool me into having this poison into my mouth will not get off easily.
Now,I just play their game because I want them to remove these implants then it's my turn to act. I will report them to the Office of Profesional Licensing,the the American dental Association and to various local newspapers. In addition I'm going to set up a website exclusively about this and other medical scams so other people don't fall prey of these skunks.
What I'm more concerned about is that I lost so much muscle mass. that I don't thing that I will be able to get it back. Let's hope that I will but most damage is already done and who knows what it will be in the future even after they'll remove the implants.
Get your implant out the sooner as possible. Don't worry about having to wear a parcel/denture. What counts is your health and happiness. After all,regaldless of your looks, your real friends will always be your friends.
I want to add some information which I think it's needed. many ask how to do a melisa test and the cost of it. Well to my surprise I found out that the Melisa Foundation has two centers in the USA . One is located in New Jersey and this is the address:
South Amboy Medical Center
540 Bordentown Avenue
South Amboy,N.J. 08879
the other is:
373 280 th Street
Osceola, WI, 54020
Now, the South Amboy, New Jersey laboratory will only charge $75 (I though that it would cost much more) but I don't know how much the other will charge. If a test is needed,and it is to find out about this Titanium toxicity, just call the number and they will send a kit to have blood drawn by a physician. After that the kit is returned to them with a check for $75. And that's all. The test result will be sent later.
Have any of you read or heard about N.I.C.O. (Neuralgia induced cavitational osteonecrosis)? I visited an unconventional oral surgeon who proposed taking out the implant as well as the adjacent root-canaled tooth and some of the surrounding bone because of the above diagnosis.
The American Dental Association does not recognize this diagnosis as being anything other than the kind proposed by charlatans and quacks. Conversely, A.D.A. may very well be inducing illness and certainly some damage by what is their standard of care, but they don't want to think about it. The status quo is fine with them as long as they can go along making money and ignoring the people they hurt.
Meanwhile, who are we to believe? Approval by the A.D.A. doesn't mean much to me. I lost a tooth due to orthodontic treatment, and now have all of this unexplained phenomena going on since the dental implant.
One thing about the supposed "quackster" I saw today. He didn't even take a payment after looking at all of my films and talking with me for 45 minutes. He felt bad for me with all that I had been through. He is getting ready to retire as it is wearing on a person to be treated as a criminal for practicing what he believes to be good medicine and dentistry.
Have you noticed the medical and dental establishments makes every effort to disprove and squelch any voice that may question the standard of care in our society. Why is this? Who really do we need to be wary of???
Bertin76, let us know what your website is when you create it. Serbin, I too am nervous about the removal of the implant. Either way, it is coming out. The dentist who put it in finally said he'd take it out. The UCLA oral/max team should let me know whether or not it will be a nightmare since the bone adhered - whether or not my cleft palate will be affected - and whether or not the rest of the issues with my gums/tongue will go away. I saw a Dr. Oz show last week regarding the tongue - and one of my symptoms closely looked like an allergy to the mouth. Except - for me it is times 10 probably due to it being there two years. Next Tuesday is a big day for Serbin and I. Serbin, please let us know how you are. I'm right behind you in the process and after care of the removal. I'm also hoping whatever they do to fill the hole - we are also not allergic to. Curedsoon, I have been to so many dentists - all are very "curious" and "sympathetic" and do tell me I do have to fix whatever is wrong - but they can't help me. Finally, an oral/max doctor referred me to the UCLA max/facial team and hopefully they'll get to the bottom. I'll keep you all posted.
Bertin76, I had the Melisa test done which I posted on June 7th. The periodontist told me the titanium I tested positive for has nothing to do with the titanium in my mouth. It cost me near $400.00. I am glad if you have found a way to pay less for this information.
--Also the oral surgeon I saw yesterday, who is also a doctor of osteopathy, said that dental implants are almost always chronically infected and result in bone loss around the implant. I can tell you I feel like my mouth always has a low grade infection going. The antibiotics I was taking to help the problem ended up contributing to symptoms and causing an autoimmune reaction of their own, so I had to stop with that.
--The ENT who in June was telling me that the scar tissue caused by the implant penetrating the sinus was a probable source of irritation and inflammation has now reversed his opinion and feels since the sinus was clear on a CT scan that I have nothing to complain about. Interesting. The sinus is clear, but there is evidence of mucosal thickening on the floor of the left maxillary sinus consistent with a condition of inflammatory origin---oh yeah. These are the exact words of an oral and maxillofacial radiologist. What a flipping mystery!!!!! And now he does not think it is a problem because why? He probably has been talking with his oral surgeon friend who has told him to keep quiet and not aid or abet any person who has the potential to bring about a law suit to one of the "brothers." What a sick health care system we have. Money, lawyers, and docs who stick their heads in the sand when some of their "treatments" cause more harm than good.
jerandi, I would like it if you would give me the names of the team you are meeting with at UCLA so that I can request an appointment. I would like to get another opinion, as I don't know if taking this hardware out will leave the sinus in any better condition and that I will still be left with symptoms because of the scar tissue created when the implant penetrated the sinus membrane.
is there any one who has zirconia implant in his mouth ? Any allergic reaction or similiar effect so far ?
For Ti implants, even if the body does not show allergic symtoms in any kind, it has a direct link to Alzheimer since metal inserted bone which is only 1-2 inch away from brain triggers different electric flow patterns which in turn Alzheimers is most likely outcome. This is one of the thing that medic barrons do not want us to know.
But I wonder whether Zirconia has a similar effect or not ... Although zirconia itself is not metal but it is derived from zirconium which is a metal !
The bone/skeleton structure of body is responsible for very complex electric flow, whatever inserted into it will interfere with the original condition. Personally I do not trust Zirconia as well, but I am searching for information .. any idea or info ?
Hi. Regarding my post on June 24, 2010-- I will take my veterinarians' advice and not put any foreign object into my body unless absolutely necessary. But, if I were to have a dental implant again I would rather have the zirconia than metal because it is supposed to be more biocompatible than metal. I have read that it may not be as strong as the titanium alloys and is also more expensive.
As consumers we should be informed of the options, which I wasn't. Medical and dental practitioners should be required by law to inform patients of the options for materials that are going to be installed in THEIR bodies. I should have known what materials were available and what the risks and benefits are of the different materials. As it is now the docs make their own unilateral decisions on what is the best material and where they want to get it. I would like to see direct advertising of biomedical devices and materials to the end user. I don't want some dentist buying the cheapest implant from a supplier with operations in China or some other country without my knowledge.
In my state registered architects and designers are barred from making money on products used on their projects without the clients knowledge. This is because it is viewed as unprofessional and a potential conflict of interest that could affect public safety. As an example you would not want an architect specifying a wall or floor covering that was inferior (maybe it did not meet building codes) so that he or she could pocket a little extra cash. This is why it is called a professional service and not a sales job. Why are doctors and dentists allowed to put whatever product they want into the bodies of their patients without informing the patients of the options? The product should be separate from the service, and we should know about the product and where it comes from. The rules need to change!!
Well today I go back to talk with the surgeon again. Just want to review things since I am
so leary or pain, removal and after effects of this entire procedure.
Inflammation in my body is spreading every day. I will keep you all posted.
Hey, you will all get a good laugh out of this one. On dental website a girl wrote in that she is concerned about the pain of "putting in" her dental implant. I wrote back to her quickly and said "it is very easy to put it in" not so easy to take it out!!! Told her to do
her research and do not rush into sometime unless she is well informed about it. Also instructed her if she feels anything not right in those first six weeks......GET IT OUT!
Maybe there are people we can educate before they are in the situation we are all in.
Well, I encountered other obstacles. The New Jersey laboratory which was ready to do the testing now has issues with NY residents. I will have to go to NJ or CT and find a Doctor there who will then draw my blood and send it to them.
This is strange. They say that the laws in NY are such that at the moment the Melisa accredited laboratories cannot perform the titanium test for New York residents. It doesn't make sense to me.
However, another doctor will do it next Monday evening in New York in a Hospital here not connected with Melisa.
I will keep you informed of the results. I have to get these implants out and my dentist will not remove until I get this test done regardless of my symptoms.
I'm angry. I wish I had never fallen prey to this scam. Have yours removed. The implants are the problems.
I want to tell you what has significantly reduced my symptoms:
Celebrex in the day/ Advil at night has helped with body aches and pains as well as numbness.
Antihistamines every day and night.
12 hr. timed release Sudafed with evening meal to control congestion at night--then I need a sleep aid, but breathing helps sleep for sure!
Patanase nasal inhaler, along with a steroid nasal inhaler nightly has significantly reduced congestion and irritation in the sinus above the implant which was perforated during the procedure of installing the implant.
This is helping me to get through the day (&night). Maybe it will help you.
Thanks. Anything which will improve our condition should be considered. I will follow your advise because I'm really hurting very badly. I'm already taking pain medication but I can add the Celebrex and the other mentioned substances with no problem.
However, our ultimate goal is to have the implants removed. This poison had to come out.
Wish you & all well. I will keep you informed of my progress as soon as I'll take the titanium test next week. Bye.
You wouldn't believe how upset I am - I wrote the appointment on the wrong day, so now I have to wait until November 4 for UCLA. I am not a cryer, but I lost it then. Dr. Alan Felsenfeld, 310/825-0834 is the number at UCLA. I have xanax to deal with the newer symptoms that arise daily and Lidex to help with the inflammation of the mouth. Darvocet for pain and everyone, my stomach is nauseaus all the time now. Celexa for depression which is a temporary fix until I get these removed. The removal isn't an option - it is a must. I have Dr. Cayden Lim removing them after UCLA checks it all out. He's in Newport Beach. Thanks for updating me everyone. It truly helps knowing I am not totally alone. Jerandi
jerandi keep on. I'm glad that you came up to the conclusion that the implants have to be removed and with no other option other than removal. This titanium is very toxic and by now has spread to all of our organs. It's in our brains with possibility of short or long term neurological problems ,muscle weakness and involuntary movements,memory loss,thyroid,heart,liver,lungs and reproductive system problems.
Why they had to come up with this toxic titanium when they could have invented something very safe? and why the courts or some other oversight authority is not stopping this extremely dangerous scam/procedure?
Ok, today I will make another appointment with another Doctor who knows how to use patches to test this titanium and I have another test with another Doctor coming up. Hopefully, after the tests they will remove this poison from me. The original dentist will not remove the implants until I get this test done even with all these side effect from the titanium!!!
For now I have to go along with it.
I'll keep you informed with the progress.
Saw my surgeon again to talk to him about any questions I may have.
He was patient and listened to every question and concern and addressed each one of them.
He is ready to remove it when I give him the go ahead.
When he puts an implant into anyone and they mention any problem at all as far as not feeling well....he takes them out right away. He said it may be coincidence that this body inflammation happens or pain occurs, but he doesn't take a chance he removes the implant while it is still very easy to remove.
He said removal may or may not help my condition. That the pain in the elbows started the week after implant was inserted and I started to mention it to the dentist right away, would lead him to believe the implant could be the cause.
He said teeth are easy to remove, but these implants are made to stay in for life...so they are not as easy to take out. When he removes the implant he will use an instrument like a plumber will use when he makes a hole in a cabinet for the pipe to go through. In doing this as very small portion of bone will come out with the implant. This may or may not cause a problem and I could lose the front tooth which is next to it. Hope not to, but it
is a possibility. It would not fall out...it could come out in one or two months. My regular dentist will make a mold of my front teeth just to prepare for the worse, and hope, not to
He also said that very tiny slivers may be left behind from the metal. He would like
to avoid this but some time it is inevitable. Does not go hunting to remove them later, because that could cause bigger problems.
When I asked what could go wrong...infection? He said yes, infection and many things can go wrong, but that is with anything. It could mean antibiodics if an infection followed, pills..or intervenious for months.....this is not what is expected. But I wanted all the facts.
As far as nerve damage, didn't want my face drooping down, etc. He said no it did not affect those muscles and nerves. I guess mainly we are working with bone not the face and lips.
It has been one year. My joints are getting more sore every week.
I also have ringing in my ears, since this implant.
He said it is totally up to me. Whatever I decide. He said, Unfortunately, removal is the only way we will know what is going on with the body.
In my mouth my implant looks fine. Of course, in like a rock! ugh!
So he has done this before. Has seen people with problems from it and once they were
removed, 50% get better. There is no guarantee. He felt that removal would at least give me some peace of mind. I spend day in and day out trying to make the right decision.
Are the rest of you experiencing joint pain and body inflammation also? Any ringing in the
Anybody out there have theirs removed and how did you do? Having it put in had me worried since it sounds so gruesome, putting it into the bone, but it was a piece of cake.
Would like to hear from someone that had it out.....was it just as easy?? Would just feel better if there was someone out there that went through this......do we have to be the pioneers???? Please get back to me on this one, thanks girls.
It is next to my front tooth. He said since some bone was removed and the hole is there from the implant my upper jaw at the site would be sunken in some but that over time the bone will fill it. Not perfect but it will be okay. I don't have Julia Robert's smile, so I will be just fine.
Asked if he could knock me out :) he said no, especially with my heart surgery 6 months ago, He would order any relaxing medicine I needed to get through it. I am pretty durable, but I guess the older I get the more squeemish I get.
Sorry so long, but that's what I got. Any questions, let me know.
Well, on Monday I will have the Titanium test done and hopefully it will be the beginning of the final resolution of my case. I want all the implants out. Five of them. They're poisoning me and doing the same to you. I will keep you informed of the test results not to satisfy me,I know my problems is the implants, but the dentists/surgeons who will have to remove them.
I've been told that I will loose some bone. Let it be if necessary. I want to feel good again. Then maybe, maybe I will explore some other possibilities like the ceramic or metal free zirconia. But...I'm not going to rush into it anytime soon!
I wonder though if IVORY IMPLANTS wouldn't be a safer alternative! After all it's bone.
Regardless, I'm not going to be lied to and misled by the zillion dollar medical industry anymore.
I wish you all well and, please, post what's going on with you and share idea if you can.
For those contemplating Titanium implants: DON'T DO IT.
I didn't have any of the mouthsores and itchiness of the head and headaches as much as I did after the implants. I have these tonsilliths that have nothing to do with my tonsils the ENT said. November 4th is the next UCLA appointment and what kind of bothers me is these dentists are calling ahead and almost like tipping them off. At least I know I'm not crazy. I have a journal that actually goes to when the symptoms first started. So that's how we know it is the implants. My throat is sore and that makes my ears hurt, but that's the extent of the throat/ears. I am trying this noni juice which is to help with inflammation. I saw a Dr. Oz and the mouthsores were an allergy - which looked like what I had. So. Noni juice (yucky stuff), twice a day and wait for the removal. My two implants are next to my front teeth. I already had the mouth impressions to get a bridge. I'm holding off on the surgery until I make sure (through UCLA) that whatever I put in place after the removal - I'm not allergic to. I hope to have this completed in 2010. Remember - allergies do not go away unless you remove whatever it is you are allergic to. I'm excited to see your progress. We may be on opposite sides of the coast, but we are a support system of sorts. Keep me posted. I truly look forward to all of our progress. Hang in there.
You are not crazy. What is crazy is the the lack of ethics and caring perpetuated by our healthcare system. The goal is to continue making money on these procedures and ignore the people who have problems with the procedures or make them feel like they are the problem. Another contributing factor is the fear of lawsuits. So you pay a practitioner to help you figure out this trouble, but the priority for them is maintaining the status quo and protecting themselves and other practitioners from lawsuits. Not a good deal for us.
I would be so pleased if I could find a healthcare practitioner who had seen this problem before, (and would admit to it), and knew what to do about it. I am hesitant to take the implant out, as now the tooth next to it has trouble and needed a retreat on a root canal. The sinus above the implant shows inflammatory changes also, and the inflammation may be due to scar tissue formed when the implant perforated the sinus or the tooth next to the implant. So what if I take the implant out and then figure it is the scar tissue or the tooth next to the implant causing trouble?
There must be someone who knows what is going on and how to fix it.
Did you take the metal tests? You need to get a blood test and or parch test to see the allergy/ toxicity to the titanium implants. I'm going Monday and I want all my implants out. I know for sure that what I'm going through is a direct side effect of the toxicity of the titanium implants.
I felt good before the implants and I've been going through hell literally and figuratively after this painful and dangerous implant procedure.
It's documented, Titanium is a toxic metal (mercola.com). There are safer implants but are costly for the Dentists so they offer you no alternatives and don't even make you aware of the possible/probable horrible side effects.
I'm with you, Jerandi,merihakca et all. I pray that this nightmare will soon be over for all of us.
Yes, I had my allergist do a patch test and only tested positive for a form of gold. I also had the Melisa test done and posted the results on June 7. Neither test did me much good. It would have been a relief to have a definite positive result to the titanium, but that is not what I got.
--The Melisa test advised not using any kind of oral or inhaled steroid for five days prior to testing but I was unable to comply as I really like breathing through my nose and not coughing all night long. So maybe the results were skewed because I was unable to refrain from using the meds. I did question why the titanium tested for with the Melisa test supposedly has nothing to do with the titanium in our mouths (via my periodontist), but never got an answer from Melisa. What do you want for $400.00?
This whole experience has been a drain in every way imaginable.
My melissa test came back and did not show that I was allergic to this type of titanium,
which is in our mouths........so the dentist said. I showed slightly allergic to a different type. I will write back later and tell you which type.
So just because it did not show what we wanted doesn't mean we are not reacting to the implants. It may not be an allergy but a reaction......same problem. Pain and suffering.
I have breathing problems whenever I take any pill (and most pills have it) that has titanium dioxide in it..
I just want peace of mind. I wrestle with the decision day and night to have it removed.
My surgeon said he has seen this but removes it right way when the person mentions it
and before it is adhered to the bone. He has removed them and 50% get better.
He is ready to remove the implant the minute I give him the go ahead.
Just not looking for any more complications from the surgery then we already have.
6 months since open heart surgery and now I found out last week I have a possible torn
rotary cuff....MRI this week. So the implant surgery kept getting pushed back. I know I should just go and get it out but I am soooo scared of any complications.
I feel really bad listening what you had to say. Wasted money without even knowing if you are allergic to titanium or not probably because if the inhaled steroids supposedly for the asthma.
Well, last week I went to see another allergist. His secretary told me that they did the titanium patch test there in the office, however,when I arrived at my appointment time and saw the actual Doctor the only test he did was the food allergy test. When I mentioned that I was there for the titanium test because of my implants he answered evasively by saying that what I real needed was a toxicologist test .
He gave me a form for a blood test which had nothing to do with my problems and advised me to go online and find a laboratory!!! What a Jack...!
At any rate this afternoon I'll go for the titanium test which was scheduled three weeks ago, if it's not postponed . I'm concerned because,as in your case, when I saw this last allergist he made me inhale some steroids,to" improve my breathing".
I hope that by now the steroid is out of my system. In the meantime I feel horrible, with the same muscle pain,loss of weight,headaches, thyroid-sore throat ,digestive tract pain,strange dreams etc. etc.Now I'm having blurred vision.
I hope that the test come up positive as I believe it should be so they will remove these implants. I'm wondering now if it's going to be like you. I need to get these implants out,I'm too miserable.
If and when you answer I would like to know how you feel physically. I'll keep you informed by tonight . I was told that I will have to go twice to get this test done. This afternoon it will be the first one and in a couple of days will be the second. I really would like to have a blood test and a patch test. Let's see what happens. Take care..
I have aching feet and knees and neck, tingling in the hands and feet as well as extreme pain in my right hip,leg, and shoulder. The left side of the body feels more numb than painful. A tmj specialist said that the dental implant pain on the left I feel is referred from the tmj. Is it just a coincidence that the left jaw joint is bothering me?
My neck and lower back are bothering me every day (thus the Celebrex and Advil). Today I went to a neurologist who diagnosed me with degenerative arthritis of the spine and neck. He says this can cause numbness, weakness, and everything I am experiencing. I just wonder if it is all of the sudden so bad (I did have previous neck + back pain) and now including neurological symptoms because of the some systemic inflammation in reaction to the implant. It seems like there is more than just one person who feels like me. We are not being recognized by the medical community.
I wish there were an honest doc who would admit to seeing this before, or I wish there were some studies documenting this phenomena. I really feel like the medical community has abandoned us. Now, what if I get this implant taken out and feel just the same--especially since some the symptoms appeared pre-implant?
The patch test I had done for metal allergy I hadwas called the dental series. I don't believe for that one that I was instructed to stop with the inhaled steroids or even antihistamines for the test. They put the patches on your back and make a small scratch through the patch onto your skin and leave it for a few days and then take it off and record the reaction.
I would be interested in a toxicology test, as one doctor talked to me about it but didn't know where to go for a toxicology test on dental materials. Please post if you find out.
Ok, I have some updates. Yesterday there was no test . The Doctor's nurse called me and told to come today. I went this morning and she placed the metal tests patches on my back and told to come back on Thursday
I don't know what she will do on Thursday. Maybe to remove them and on Friday the Doctor will discuss the case with ,me.
This test should satisfy the dentist/surgeon. Hopefully,I'll get these implants out.
I want to add that I would be interested too in having a toxicology test for this titanium and other metals used for the implants. I asked the nurse if I could have titanium/metal blood test in addition to the patch test and she says that it wasn't reliable. I forgot to mention the possibility of a blood toxicology test. Looks like the blood metal test maybe the same as the blood metal toxicology test. I believe that a blood metal test makes sense since the toxic ions from the titanium implants are already in the bloodstream and could be detected.
Do any of you know if the sinus membrane was perforated during the installation of your implant/s?
I am currently using an antifungal nasal rinse that has provided relief of some of the symptoms of congestion and bloody discharge on the side of the implant. I was told once the membrane is perforated you then have scar tissue which can serve as a rough place for the microbes to attach. Antibiotics and nasal steroids can also encourage growth of fungus. It is not necessarily a fungal infection, but a colonization which can nonetheless be irritating to the tissue.
I got this info. from a homeopathic M.D..
I think I told you an oral surgeon/d.o. is recommending I take the implant out as well as the root canaled tooth adjacent to it and have the bone cleaned out around it all. It sounds drastic but I will be considering it if it will help me regain my health. This same doc has done this type of surgery many times and has also found fungus balls in the sinus cavities of people he removes these implants from. I talked to an acquaintance who has had surgery by this doc to remove the diseased bone in the area where her wisdom teeth once were and subsequently worked for this doc and sometimes assisted with surgeries. She said she has seen him remove the grey fuzzy fungus balls from the sinus cavities of some people having their implants removed.
I have Yellow Nail Syndrome, which is a very rare disorder that has yellow thick nails, swollen limbs, and sinusitis and/or pleural effusions. I just saw a medical study that felt that titanium and/or titanium dioxide was the cause. The URL is: http://www.springerlink.com/content/55n8226584171427/fulltext.pdf.
What I think this group will find interesting is that the study indicates that the easiest solution may not be to remove the titanium (such as an implant or pin), but to remove the metal (such as gold earrings/ring or titanium eyeglasses) that is interacting with the titanium and is causing titanium ions to form, which increases the mental sensitivily issue. A large amount of dental amalgams can also interact with titanium, causing the ions to form. Ditto with flouride.
Also reducing the drugs, confectionary (in particular M&Ms and Skittles), toothpaste, gum, sunblock, food, cosmetics, etc that contain titanium dioxide can help reduce ions.
This study states "stopping galvanic release of titanium ions or canceling exposure to titanium dioxide" is key.
I am looking into the MELISA test, though it sounds like the results can be inconclusive. Maybe get both the patch and MELISA? I don't have an implant, but do have several crowns. I have calls to my dentists to see if they can verify if they are titanium. I do take several drugs that contain titanium dioxide.
I have removed all gold jewelry, have switched to a non-floride & non-titanium dioxide toothpast, and am feeling a little better. If the crowns are titanium, I will get them replaced with a non-metal replacement.
curedsoon, I don't know what the surgeons did. There was more than one surgeon performing the implants. Now that you have suggested that possibility I really would like to know about it. The problem is that they have been telling me nothing but lies so far.
A recent test by a non-qualified dermatologist doesn't show any allergy to the material used for the implants that is titanium. However, this is not an indication that titanium is not a toxic substance. In fact studies have shown that titanium is indeed toxic and is not recommended for dental implants. also because there are very safe alternatives like non-metal zirconia.
I will shortly take the Melisa titanium blood test , I had to go find a Doctor in New Jersey to request the kit from the laboratory as they don't accept any blood drawn by New York Doctors claiming that the State of New York has not yet approved their laboratory. I don't believe this.
However, a Doctor from New Jersey will call me when he receives the kit from the laboratory and then I'll see what happens. This Doctor in New Jersey though is taking advantage of my insurance.
Figure this out. In exchange for him being "nice" to me I will have to see about four of his co-conspirators Doctors for things that have nothi