Allergy Community
titanium/vanadium/aluminum dental implant
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This patient support community is for discussions relating to airbourne allergies, eye allergies, shots, anaphylaxis, asthma, children's allergies, hives, insect stings, rhinitis, sinuses, and allergies to drugs, foods, and pets.

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Avatar_m_tn
Hi to all. Just a few words. I have to say that despite the fact that I had my Toxic Titanium Implants removed I've not yet regained my health as it used to be. Yes,it's better than before but I feel weak and have not regained any weight  Still dealing with digestive problems because that metal taste from the titanium and nickel for so long in my mouth went through my throat and way down the stomach and intestines.
Still have muscle aches and general ill feeling and have to take pain medication if I want to have some relief.
I wish we could put these charlatan Dentists out  business and possibly in JAIL because these legal criminals  are ruining  the lives of too many people.
I would like to add something else: Understand that every person who undergoes these toxic implants is going to get sick.  It's not only just a few or  5% as they want us to believe. The fact is that the rest of the people have no clue that their illnesses are caused by these implants.
Take care.
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Avatar_f_tn
Just an update on my status.  Overall I feel a lot better than I did before I had the implant removed (i had the implant for 4 years) in Jan 2011.  I am still not 100% but my Dr said it would take approx 6 months of treatment before I was back to normal, and for me that is October.  Just to recap, prior to getting the implant I was already unknowingly infected with Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia, Erlichiosis, Mycoplasma and c. pneumonia but I was not symptomatic.  The implant caused my body to go into a tizzy and then I became very ill.  The implant also perforated my maxillary sinus and I subsequently developed a fungal infection.  I was finally diagnosed with all of these infections in April 2011 and am responding well to treatment.  I have been doing a lot of reading about microbial infections and I was pretty shocked to find out that most people have infections that they don't know about and that these infections have been linked to auto immune diseases, which is where I was headed.  I wanted to provide information here as it seems like so many of us are going through the same thing and most doctors are not literate at all on the subject, including infectious disease specialists.  It seems the implant gives these infections a place to flourish which would explain why some people don't seem to be ill with implants.  Here is info on mycoplasma http://www.rain-tree.com/myco.htm  
Here is info on lyme and other neurotoxin mediated diseases  http://www.betterhealthguy.com/joomla/images/stories/PDF/klinghardt%20-%20a%20unique%20healer.pdf
My dr follows a protocol developed by Dr Klinghardt, who is doing amazing work/research.
Best of luck to everyone
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Avatar_f_tn
Thank you for letting us know your status.  There are others (Serbin, cascpa) who removed their implants some time ago as well, and it would be good to know if they have continued to improve.  It is too bad removing the implants did not net you a total improvement, but it sounds like it gave you a start.

Have you tried any alternative or integrative M.D.s?  So far it is where I have received the most help.  The 5 weeks of U.V. blood irradiation & ozone for infection helped & then adding the digestive enzymes designed to inhibit biofilm formation helped as well.  I have much in common with hopefulinSJ in that there is an infective component and that my maxillary sinus was perforated during the procedure.  Finding a competent practitioner who can help is a challenge when you are not like everyone else.  Right now (at this moment), my implant feels fine, but I still have the odd sensation in the feet and numbness in the legs and an odd array of immune activity in blood work without a explanation for any of it.  My guess is that it is a combination of pre-existing subclinical infection/s, a tendency toward autoimmune dysfunction, allergies, and then an overload of toxins (flu shots, dental implant, amalgam fillings) put me over the edge.  I am grateful for the help received so far, but still have a ways to go.  

The other thought that comes to mind is the NICO diagnosis that was mentioned to me by a D.O. who is also a dentist.  He wanted to remove a good portion of my jaw bone and prescribe heavy duty iv antibiotics.  The NICO lesions can be toxic to the body and produce unrelenting jaw and facial pain.  The NICO diagnosis has not been embraced by mainstream dentistry, as they would have to admit that the standard of care is actually inducing disease in certain people.  I have read that some of the dentists who perform cavitation surgery have clinics designed to address the systemic issues created by these jaw lesions.  Hopefully we won't have to go to such extremes!

The Environmental Center in Dallas, TX (posted by Georgek04) also looks like a source for help.  HopefulinSJ looks like she is getting somewhere with her treatment.  I hope you don't give up--someone will help you.  The challenge is finding them!



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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for  your advice and for your encouraging words. I understand that I'm not feeling as I used to but I have to tell you that I'm relieved that I don't have to deal with that poison of Titanium in my mouth anymore,

What has aggravated the all thing is that the Dentists were reluctant in removing the implants and made me wait out month before it was actually done and this was after  Dr. Elizabeth Valentine-Thon of the Melisa Laboratory of NJ called  the Head dentist at the Hospital to tell her story.

Even then I had to wait more weeks for the actual removal. Basically now my body is still fighting off  whatever damage the implants did and I hope that it will in time get rid of  the side effects and leftover toxicity. Hope that this mess did not generate any lasting  health problem.

I also hope that you find the right formula or treatment for your condition because you've been dealing with it for a too long time now.

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Avatar_f_tn
You are right about dealing with this for too long!  I can tell you something has stopped the itching feeling on the back and arms--it is either the thyroid medication or the anti-infectives used in the sinus rinse.  What a long and convoluted story.  Like a bad dream.  

It would be so great if there were a concerned group of doctors who would recognize and define the symptoms we are experiencing.  Better yet, develop an effective treatment for it.  Even 3% of the population is quite a bit when you think of how many people who are getting titanium implants.  Now, if they were to patent a drug or something specifically designed to treat this problem, well then, there might be a financial reason to recognize us.  Until then, we have to help ourselves.
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Avatar_n_tn
My therapist said the doctors don't pay attention to these forums.   They say only negative people post on these forums.   I'm not negative.   I just want pre-implant health back.   Why is it they don't read these forums?  How do we get heard before an epidemic begins.  I am done infectious disease and now referred to rheumatologist.  Mouth sores not so severe.   There, but do not need to treat.  Stomache?  I'm doing spoke cider vinegar and true natural honey. Sinuses... The rinse and the apple cider vinegar helps clear it up.  I am not ignoring what is irritating me.  I'm trying hard not to be afraid.  I hope the removal will eventually return me to prior health.  My ANA and C3 are elevated.  I do not have Lupus.  So we go from having infected teeth to now studying medical subjects to fix problems we never had prior to dental implants.  By the way, apparently while at dentist removing a tooth, my husband had the implant post put in.   My therapist doesn't want me to over-react.   These issues may not happen to him.   What???  Why did he do it you ask?   He was under anesthesia and typically did not call me to discuss.  He didn't want to lose more teeth and the dentist said it would be easier to have it inserted that day ....
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Avatar_n_tn
This is not a NEGATIVE site, actually a very POSITVE site.  This is a site for anyone who have been through HELL with implants or with TITANIUM, or any METAL, like myself,  who are trying to be positive and get help for themselves and for others with the same problem.

I had 4 implants done on 11/10 with very serious neurological, muscular, GI,etc. which started 1 week after implants were put in and weakness so severe, it crippled me.   Both the dentist and oral surgeon were made aware of my problem with METAL before the implants..   But both assured me Titanium wouldn't be a problem.  They were so WRONG.

But, I am persistant and never once did I give up or agree with any of the Medical people I met with over the past 4 years.  THE DON"T KNOW ANYTHING about METAL TOXICITY.

But we do!  And we are going to win, because we know more than them.  So be proud of yourselves for what you are doing.

Now, 4 1/2 months after my implant removal, this past week I have started to see changes.  Luckily, I have an ENT, who has told me he has recently received information on problems with TITANIUM, who agreed that the implants caused my my sinus problems.

My severely numb feet, I was told by a Neurologist that it was from Diabetes, is starting to decrease, my heels are less numb and my feet aren't as numb, my leg weakness, which I was told was Diabetes, has decreased.   Diabetes doesn't work this way!

I am starting to sleep 3-4 hours at a time instead of being awake all night like I was for 8 months.  My ringing of the ears, now every few days, it has quieted down, but still needs improvements, my sore throat is slightly less.  My abdominal spasms, which were really severe has lessened.

Time to let the AMA and ADA know what has happened to us.   Write to them in your state, let them know what happened to you.   Don't be silent!   They can't help us or anyone else if we don't communicate what has happened to all of us.  BE POSITVE like yu have been.
Europe had numerous complaints over a decade ago with TITANIUM, why hasn't our FDA been on top of this?

FIGHT BACK and BE HEARD!

Estring
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Avatar_f_tn
Negative?  Imagine if you could charge $3000.00 for a 45 minute procedure that left 95% of your customers satisfied.  Why would you want to trouble yourself with the small percentage who have trouble with the procedure or materials?  The problem is this small percentage is growing just as the total number of implants installed is also growing, and we are going to demand to be heard.  Nobody wants to be sick, complain, or spend their time and money trying to get their health back, but that is the unfortunate position we have all found ourselves in.  They do not want to acknowledge the facts of metal toxicity or sensitivity because they want to go on making money and deny any liability for the harm they have caused.  It is also due to the fact that none of this is taught in medical or dental schools (which in part are funded by pharmaceutical & other money making medical entities).  It seems the knowledge they are fed by these medical institutions leaves little room for critical or independent thought.  I just love it when a practitioner says "the studies say......"  or "the latest recommendation by the AMA is....."  Who do you think sponsors the studies?  How many clinical trials are there on treatments or drugs that will not produce big profits for the big industry of healthSCARE?  

Estring, I would like to know the info. your ENT has on the negative effect of titanium on the sinus.  Maybe I could show it to the ENT docs I have consulted with.  Also, why have our dentists not been learning from what has been going on in Europe?  Is there a way to get the statistics of what has been going on in Europe and apply it to practice over here? Are we an island?!

Have any of you heard of health testing centers?  If you look it up online--they offer testing for blood levels of heavy metals such as lead, mercury, and titanium.  They have a phone # you can call to consult with a nurse, but I suspect also a salesperson.  LOL my old man was right--there is a conspiracy to get your money!

Hang tough and please keep posting on your progress.

I am still living with my implant, but feel lots better due to many supplements and drugs taken to combat the constant infection where the sinus was perforated during the implant procedure.  I am thankful for the progress I have made and have not given up on the goal of complete recovery.



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Avatar_f_tn
--The supplements that have helped the most would be 1000 mg MSM w molybdenum 3x/day, Klaire Labs interfase + enzyme supplement EDTA blend 2x/day with marcozyme pills and vitamin K/D3.  The EDTA blend and marcozyme was given by a physician but the others recommended by a guy with a cane at Whole Foods.  Go figure.  They have all helped.

Now I have been reading the above are useful in metal toxicity.  Hmmm....
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Avatar_f_tn
Hi,
I have a story that I hope some of you can relate to. I got 2 titanium implants put in my lower jaw 3 years ago. About 5 months after getting these in and started to feel burning in both sides of my cheeks. I also got a cist on both sides of my face where the implants are located. The ENT doctor put me on antibioitcs. After 6 weeks and i still wasn't feeling relief I got a CT scan of my whole head. Everything was completely clear. Since then I've been to numerous doctors, have had blood tests done and everything shows up fine. The burning in my cheeks got worse over the years and now I get headaches as well. It all started 4-5 months after getting these implants in...coincidence, I starting to think not! I haven't done the Melisa test because I can't find a doctor to prescribe it! I have decided to get these implants out and it is scheduled for next week. I have had nothing but trouble since these were put in. My doctor thinks it's impossible. but is willing to take them out since I've done everything else and it hasn't worked. My gut tells me I have a sensitivity to titanium or possibly a mild allergy, but it has gotten progressively worse over these 3 years and is all localized in my cheeks and forehead. I do have inflammation as well. Anyone have a similar experience? I can't wait to get these out. I truely believe it is the cause since everything else has been ruled out and I never expereinced any of this before the implants. Let me know your thoughts! Thanks.
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Avatar_f_tn
It seems there is no end to the symptoms to be caused by these dental implants.  It is a hard situation to be in because it does not appear to be a commonly recognized phenomenae, nor do all of us have the same symptoms.  Maybe we are the lucky to have symptoms in the vicinity of the implants, as otherwise we wouldn't make the connection.  

I too have inflammation all over, but without an increased sedimentation rate to prove it.  In addition there is a smoldering infection/irritation/inflammation in the sinus over the implant that mainstream medicine has been loathe to recognize.  Thankfully I have been receiving help from M.D.s who have grown tired of insurance companies and others dictating treatment protocol for financial and political reasons.  

Next week I will be seeing a periodontist who has experience in removing implants.  I hope to regain my health and post progress in order to encourage others who may be in a similar circumstance.  

Good luck next week, and please post your progress.  Others who have posted on this site have had their implant/s removed and it would be so good to know of their long-term progress.  Some of them haven't posted beyond a week or two after removal.





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Avatar_f_tn
The more I look up these titanium implants the more I find studies showing how bad they are for the human body. Of course there's the occasional person who has them all their life and is fine just as there's that person who smokes all their life and lives to be 90.
The worst place to have metal is actually in your mouth because it is close to your brain, the saliva helps activate the ion conductivity in the metal, etc. I will warn you that the periodontist you are going to see will probably discourage you from the surgery if the implant looks fine (which I think you said earlier that the implant itself was ok) but don't let him/her. The removal surgery actually only takes about 45 minutes and my doctor said the down time is about 4 days! So don't let anyone discourage you. Remember, at the end of the day you're dealing with the pain not them. That's when I finally came to the conclusion that I refuse to keep going down this spiral and my gut tells me I need to get these things out and that they are the core cause! My doctor said it's not possible and that titanium is basically inert. Sand is also inert, but I don't want that in my body. Doctors only know what they're taught and the occassional outlier doesn't matter to them. I have friends and neighbors that are doctors and they have even told me that if it was them they would take out the implants too.
I am confident that my body will heal quickly once the foreign object is out and I just started taking hollistic medicine to detox me and speed up the process. Good luck on your appointment and I hope you make the right decision for you. Let me know of any progress! I will keep you updated on mine :)
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Avatar_f_tn
In a preliminary discussion with the Dr.(he hasn't yet examined me) he says he will probably need to patch the hole with cadaver bone.  He does not use the bovine grafting material that was used in my first procedure and has found instances where it never really does absorb, as we have been told. Did any of you have to get additional bone grafting after implant removal?  

At this point I do not want anything in my body that is not mine.  A friend of ours who had a cadaver bone graft on his hip ended up losing his spleen as the surgery/and or material triggered some kind of an autoimmune reaction in his blood.  There is a history of autoimmunity in my family and we now know (since the implant) I can have a tendency to it also.  What I need is to get all this crap out and heal, not add more materials that could possibly add to my problems.  Geeze!  We'll see how the appointment goes.
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Avatar_f_tn
I was told I would need a bone graft after extraction and at the urging of MaryAnn (Serbin on here) went to her surgeon who doesn't do grafts. His feeling is that if one's body rejected the implant it would likely not do well with a graft or any foreign body, including grafting from my own bone.  Makes a lot of sense.  I did indeed have a hole in my sinus after extraction but it healed, just need to keep it clean.  The drs can monitor the progress of the hole closing with a cone beam ct scan but it can be difficult to find a dr with the machine.  They try to talk you into the graft by stating that if you ever get another implant there won't be enough bone there to make it stable.  I am never getting another implant.  They will also tell you that if you leave a hole between the oral cavity and the sinus you will have chronic infections, which would be true if the hole didn't seal.  Your body is able to do the repair work on it's own as long as it is kept clean.  Bone is living tissue that regenerates.  I had a cone beam ct scan done just to ensure the hole was healing.
Keep us posted on your progress, I am very interested to know how you feel after extraction.  Good luck
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Avatar_n_tn
HI everyone,

Just want to update everyone on my progress,  my last post I stated it was 4 1/2 months, but I made a mistake it was 2 1/2 months.  Please forgive me.

It is now a little over 3 months since my removal of 4 upper implants I had removed 4 months after placement and removal.  

I now have no bowel spasms, they were so severe, I doubled over with the pain.  

My lower, mid and upper back pain is now just upper neck pain with stiffness.  

My muscle aches are slowly easing but are still there.

My severe 6 month long sinus infection, which I was going  to schedule for surgery, has been cancelled as my symptoms are gone.  My ENT told me I should never have had implants because of my chronic sinus infection, which by the way was only 2 years old and due to a dentist who failed to remove an infected tooth!

Smileynow,
I did not have a bone graft when they were removed, I did have a bone graft for 1 of my implants, it failed,    I can't say one way or the other, but in my case, it didn't work and I had the implants out without any difficulty in less than 1/2 hour without any complications, I cannot help you with that decision.   I healed fine without any difficulties.

As far as the sinuses goes, ENT was right, leave all alone and let nature take its course and I am doing well now,  Thank God, he knew what he was talking about.   He is from a Major Hospital in a Major City and from a Major Medical School.   He was wonderful!  Go to a Major Hospital in a large city for the same care, ask for the Chief of ENT and go from there if you continue with problems.

I am stuck with an upper denture and hate it but so glad I had the implants out!

As far as getting the implants out, go for it.    I never got worse, am slowly getting better.



Hang in there.

Estring
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Avatar_m_tn
Hi to you and all. Have no patience to go through all of the above posts. Can you tell me if you removed your implants or not. Are you still holding on? As you may remember I finally had all of my five implants removed and what a difference ...but those Dentists lied and lied and messed up my health. But I'm not anymore with those excruciating side effects and although weaker and slender,yes that poison made me loose a lot of weight, I feel better.
I want to add that I still have nerve pain from the four operations and this is because the surgeons there didn't inject enough Ladocaine all around and at the incision place and didn't wait enough time for the full nerve block to take place.
So much for a Dental School where surgeons teach!
Take care.

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Avatar_f_tn
Hi there & thanks so much for updating on your progress.  I can't remember--but did you have nerve pain in your legs & feet also?  If so, is that better?

I am still holding on with this damned implant, but did get some honest advice from a periodontist out of the area.  He said I was not a good candidate for an implant because my sinus cavities are so low and that the bone is so thin he would not have considered me a good candidate for an implant in the first place.  He also does not use the bovine bone grafting material used for my bone graft and considers it "crap".  He has seen cases where the boving grafting material looks fine on an x-ray but has not actually integrated with the bone and when removed comes out in shales or pieces.  He also thought that when the sinus cavity was perforated that it may not have healed correctly being I remember sneezing after the procedure and bits of bone coming out of my nose.  Using cpap therapy where your nose and sinuses have air delivered under pressure in order to keep the airway stented is also something that would have hindered normal healing.  I would have loved to have him take all the damned crap out of my jaw then & there only he thought there would be too big of a defect left and wanted to patch it with cadaver bone, and he was pretty adamant it needed to be patched and that I did not have enough bone to do it with.

Knowing how my body reacts to foreign substances I do not think this is a good idea.  I am going to find someone who can take it out and leave nothing or find a doc who does alot of autogenous bone grafting, where your own bone is used. Another possibility is the neuralgia induced cavitation theory.  This is something also denied by many dentists, but a growing number of dentists are treating this condition.  Right now I have to irrigate my sinus every night with an antifungal and antimicrobal wash.   Fungus grows on dead things, so maybe the bone is dead--I don't know.  

I would like to know how someone who posted--I think cascpa431 or something like that is doing, & serbin.  

Meanwhile I am happy to at least get some relief with the nasal irrigations and supplements--I was actually able to stop taking Celebrex, and instead using a supplement called Alpha flex, as well as MSM with molybdnum, vitamins, D, K, B, & ginger, which is antiinflammatory.  I was also given some thyroid medication by an m.d who practices alternative medicine.  --I am probably spending 1-200$/month on supplements, but what can you do?  They help.

I will keep you posted. I pray my sinus will return to normal once the bone grafting material comes out.  The only time my head feels totally good is when taking antibiotics and antifungals at the same time.  I hate this P.O.S. and wish it would just fall out or that God would see fit to practice some devine intervention and make it disappear!!

Take care.:-))
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Avatar_f_tn
Hi all,

So it will be 3 weeks tomorrow since I got my 2 implants out (which I had for 4 years). The procedure went very well. I did not get a bone graft because I don't need another issue from that! Even though my oral surgeon doubted that taking them out would get rid of my pain he also agreed not to do a bone grafting just in case.
I can feel a difference. Before I couldn't move my forehead (it was stiff and hurt too much), couldn't smile because my cheeks felt like they were burning and hurt, my hands started to feel like arthritis really bad, my feet and right leg kept going numb, my face was becoming swollen. All this started very very gradually and got worse over the years. I am so glad I found this chat group. I can actually move my forehead and it doesn't hurt as bad, my cheeks still burn but not all the time and not as extreme, the swelling in my face is almost gone (and I'm talking about the swelling in my face before the surgery!), my arthitis in my hands is gone, I still get tingly in my hands and feet (but not bad). Overall, I can feel a difference! I'm still in pain and when I'm under stress it flares up even more, but it's gettting better! Dr. Valentine (in NJ) said a rule of thumb is you should feel a difference after 2 weeks and if it's in deep tissue it will take longer. Whoever still has their implant in and feels bad now. I am telling you it will only get worse if you leave it in. If I would have waited 4 more days I would have been in the hospital under morphine. Once it's out your body will reverse itself, but it takes time (unfortunitly....) Sometimes another month can feel like forever for me right now, but I'm trying to stay positive that I will just keep getting better. Anyone with advice is grealy appreciated! I will let you all know how I'm doing in the next 2-3 weeks. I don't think anyone should have these in. I just met someone who got an implant in and got bladder cancer 5 years later and he told me that he knows it was from the implant and is getting it removed now! Hope this info helps everyone. God Bless and share your stories. Thanks.
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Avatar_f_tn
Hello and thank you for sharing your story.  It is encouraging that your health has improved after only 3 weeks and that it took 4 years to get you miserable enough to take the buggers out.  

Right now I have an appt. to have a consult on Sept. 26th and tentative removal of the implant on Sept. 27th.  One thing that may be bothering me as much as the implant is the bovine grafting material intruding into the maxillary sinus.  I pray they can get all this crap out and I can get on with life!!
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Avatar_f_tn
Estring: Just wondering how you are feeling now? I think it's been almost another month for you?! I hope your symptoms are completely gone! It would make me feel better knowing someone who has recovered or almost there anyway. I am counting each day from the day these implants ahve been out (used to be each hour, lol).

smileynow: I am glad you have an appiontment to get the implant out! It's obviuos your body and sinus is having a seriuos reaction to the metal. there was someone in this chat who had a similar issue with their sinus cavity being punctured and I believe they didn't get the bovine grafting and that the hole healed itself relatively fast. Obviously, I don't know how severe the puncture is for the doctor to want to seal it, but maybe you should call that oral surgeon in Maryland (I believe). He's mentioned very early in the chat and maybe he can look at your x-rays. the chances of your body rejecting the bovine grafting is small, but so was what happened to all of us! It took a number of events and a LOT of pain to figure it out myself because all the doctors I went to said it was impossible! Ha. They were sooo wrong and I can't wait until I'm 100% again because I'm going to call and mail my story to them and get it out there for others. There's an article I want you to read (maybe you've already done so), but it is factual and proves our assuptions and what we all have been through and already know. Here's the article link I think you'll enjoy. http://www.ehow.com/about_5647775_allergic-reaction-dental-implants.html - read the "scientific Study Results" section.
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Avatar_f_tn
As I told you all before I have been getting relief from the pain and infected feeling with various antimicrobal sinus rinses for months.  Well, that remedy has stopped working--I assume the microbes have developed resistance.  Now I am orally taking antibacterial and antifungal medications, which I know are toxic for the liver. It is the only treatment that gives me relief from the dental sinus pain as well as nasal swelling that severely limits the ability to get any sleep.  Right now I have an appointment on the 27th to get the implant out.  I pray he can remedy the sinus while he is getting the bone graft out.  I know and have known for over a year now that there is an infective component to what is ailing me but have been dismissed because of a low sed-rate and normal white blood cell count.  This has been the most frustrating, infuriating and expensive two years of my life.  

I really wish this would happen to just one of the arrogant jerks who have dismissed me as a "head case."  They so deserve it, & more!

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Avatar_m_tn
It would be so great if there were a concerned group of doctors who would recognize and define the symptoms we are experiencing.  Better yet, develop an effective treatment for it.  Even 3% of the population is quite a bit when you think of how many people who are getting titanium implants.  Now, if they were to patent a drug or something specifically designed to treat this problem, well then, there might be a financial reason to recognize us.  Until then, we have to help ourselves.



Sorry for the delay but I had other problems to deal with. You mention about the 3% of people having side effects from these Toxic Titanium Implants. Well, don't be fooled by these low numbers because that's not the truth. Then truth is that all of those who go through these implants are going to get sick. All of them.
What is surprising is that  only  a  few of them will make a connection between all of their physical problems and the Titanium Implants. This is the truth.
You asked if I had nerve pain and yes I d
had and still have nerve pain but in the area of the gums where they cut without injecting the appropriate amount of Ladocaine and without waiting enough time between the actual injection of the agent and the operation itself. I felt a lot of pain during all of the four or five gum operations which I had. Excruciating pain I should say.
I'm glad that you have finally come to the conclusion that it's best for you to have the implant removed. I hope that everything will come out right for you.
I want to add that the  Surgeons at the Hospital used the cadaver bone as a graft without telling me what they were doing and I found that out long after they did it and I was very upset about it.
When finally I told them to remove the Titanium Implants,because of the terrible side effects, I also told them to also remove the cadaver bone. To my surprise he told me that by now the cadaver bone had been replaced by my own bone. He followed by saying that the cadaver bone was used as a way to "stimulate" my own bone growth and that was it. I don't know if this is true as they have lied and lied to me and proved them to be wrong and liars.
I wish you and all of you well.
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Avatar_m_tn
smileynow, the above post was meant as an answer to your question.
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Avatar_f_tn
Oh a solution can't come soon enough for me.  Next week going to see an ENT and oral surgeon.  Hopefully they can figure a solution and put an end to this misery!!!  I would love to have good news to report.

My dog sitter, who must be 70+, has 4 titanium implants.  She loves them.  She has had them for 4 years and noticed no ill effects to her health.  What gives?  I hope she stays healthy!

How are you?  What if you have a cavitation or some lingering infection?  Do you think that is what could be bothering you in addition to the metal exposure you had?  What about trying some of those supplements that are supposed to help your body rid itself of heavy metals?  The msm with molybdenum has helped me and the chlorella is supposed to be good.  Do you think you would be worse if you just kept the damned implants?

Thanks for your good wishes!
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From what I understand by now it's better to have the implants removed. The body just doesn't want these foreign toxic substances. As for your dog sitter  "loving the implants" it's a puzzle.
She may have side effects from them but she thinks that what is troubling here comes from something else! Same as I though.
I don't believe that much  that your proposed therapies using natural remedies will do anything to me. I will just let nature go its course and see  how I will feel later on. I don't think that I have anything else apart from the residual side effects of the Titanium and Nickel, two known toxic materials.
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Hi All,

I'm new to this community but grateful to have discovered.  Had implant placed in lower jaw in April 2011 and had implant removed last week after similar problems as expressed by KitKat22 on this forum.  Had oral surgeon show me implant after removal and bottom half (of a normall pewter colored implant) was black.  This suggests my body was rejecting something.

Having good/bad days - but it's only been a week.  Had bio-energetic testing performed which showed high on metals so I'm on a homeopathic detox which DOM said could take a couple of months for any positive results.

Wish everyone good thoughts with their decision process to have implant removed.
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Thanks for stating it plainly.  Titanium and nickel are toxic elements.  Yes.  It is crazy that the medical profession is ignoring this plain and simple fact.  Advancements in science apparently do not always correlate with common sense.  Why exactly would you take potentially toxic elements and install them into the body?  What is worse is that the people who manifest symptoms after installing dental implants are ignored or denied.

Thanks for your support.

I hope by next Wednesday I am minus an implant and can start the healing, especially in the sinus where it never should have been in the first place.  

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Hello is Serbin,

I have not commented in a long time.  It has been a year since I had my implants out.
Luckily, I noticed the problem immediately after my one implant was put into my jaw.
The dentist did a beautiful job inserting it and all went well.  Except I noticed over the
next few weeks my joints and nerves in my body were hurting and aching and in the morning
it was getting more and more difficult getting out of bed.  

although everyone kept saying "no, this can't be the implant"  I knew right away something was
wrong and getting worse.  Found the right dentist who felt this was always a possiblilty and
had lots of experience removing implants.

Bottom line, he took it out in a total of 40 minutes, sign in and walking out of office.  I felt better
and better each day.  Best thing I ever did.

I found out right after the post was put in and I started feeling bad that it had titanium in it.
Shocked to find this out because I am allergic to titanium dioxide in medicine.

So if you had a titanium post put in and are feeling bad within two weeks of implant........
GET IT OUT.  Your pain and suffering will only get worse with time.  If you are thinking of
getting an implant DO NOT GET ONE.  Make sure you are well informed beford you decide
to have one implanted.  When they work, they are fabulous.  When they cause problems and
reactions, then they are your worse nightmare.

Wishing everyone peace of mind and a relaxed, pain free body,
Serbin
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Veronica,
You called me at home, but never left me your return phone number.
I will gladly answer any questions you have.  Just call me back.
If you need my number again, just look back in the long list of messages and you will find it listed.
Look forward to hearing from you.

Maryann
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.Hello,

First of all thank you ALL for positing here and for making your troubles regarding the titanium side effects heard. It takes time and courage for one to share these info and be kind enough to warn other people about the possible side effects of a titanium dental implant.

My question is: Do you know if a zirconium implant will be a better choice versus a Titanium implant or the damage of an implant is bad....period...no matter what material is it made of?

I am asking because I am researching this subject for months now and I KNOW, in Europe now (I was born there but had been living in North America for many many years) dentists use more and more the zirconium implants.

My main problem is making this decision of having...or not the titanium dental implants put in this December. I have already gotten my bone graft operation (done in E. Europe, by a great team of surgeons, the cost is a quarter of what would have cost me here). Now, I am healing from the bone grafting operation and I must go back for the titanium implants. The problem is...I MUST GET 11 (ELEVEN) IMPLANTS and I am absolutely torn if I should do it or not. I have just turned 35 years old and I have a small child to care for nd I dont want to have beautiful teeth at the expense of my...good health.

I tried to ease my doubts with a MELISA test but it takes forever to get in touch with someone there and this morning, after two months of trying in vain to get in touch with them, by phone or emails, I just made it to talk to someone over the phone and this lady-almost rudely-told me they do not have the MELISA test available in Canada, "try it in the USA" she said and then "bye"....she hang up the phone. I dont think I have time to research "someone in USA" who will order this test for me...or whatever the procedure is.

However, I am still debating whether should I get the 11 TITANIUM implants (they apparently are made by NOBEL Bio-Alpha I think is called and they are Titanium Grade 5-containing vanadium and aluminium beside titanium) or should I research a doctor who will use zirconium implants?? Or dental implants could cause severe side effects no matter what the material they are made of?

I am torn with this decision... I am still young, I used to model until not long ago, I have a very public life and I need to somehow solve these dental issues as I hate the thought of getting dentures at this age.

I have only the 6 front teeth and wisdom teeth REAL in my mouth, up and down on my jaw, everything else was covered by bridges which failed recently  because the teeth underneath supporting them went bad and they were extracted, I am now healing these as well. Hence the massive dental bone loss which I have hopefully managed to help by having these dental grafts already (and I might have to get also a sinus lifting).

If I am not getting implants, I cant get any bridges as they have no support at all and the dental bone will continue to dissapear. I am absolutely lost.

NOTE: During the bone grafting operation I was advised that I got two small titanium screws "to keep the new bone in place" (the grafts were autogene, my own chin bone mixed with 1.5 grams of...."other-artificial" bone). Anyway, its been a month since I have gotten the grafts and these two "small titanium screws" in my mouth and I am experiencing some weird rash like-bumpy skin looking on my lower sides of cheeks and neck. The grafts were done in my lower jaw-on both sides. I also experience sinus congestion (although I have always had it before also with the nickel/crom porcelain bridges) but this time I feel it stronger, I am congested and I am also bleeding a bit when trying to clear my nose. I am also more tired and I cant fall asleep easily. Now, its easy to say that I am tired caring and running around after my toddler but still...could these symptoms be a sign that I AM truly allergic to titanium already? I am soooo so lost....My legs and bones also are sore, but not so much more than before (I used to always get sore muscle and bones when the weather changes) so the "feeling" now is similar...Not sure what to think of.

Any advices or opinions would be greatly appreciate it. Thank you all very much for making your voices heard out there! I truly apologize for this long comment!

God bless you all and a great health I wish you all!
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Just an update and some very important info.  I had my implant removed 8 months ago and most of my symptoms resolved, but I still have had chronic sinus problems.  My implant perforated my sinus cavity and I have learned that fully curing infection (treated for bacteria, fungus, yeast and mold) is near impossible after having an implant.  My Dr told me that as a result of the implant I have a smoldering infection (which can happen even if implant doesnt perf sinus as well as from root canals) that produces very powerful toxins, some that are carcinogenic.  He said that there is an infectious agent in implant and root canals that make people very ill (headaches, fatigue, sinus infections, immune dysfunction) that are often overlooked.

None of the treatments have cured my infection so my Dr is trying something very cutting edge.  Today he injected ozone into the space where the implant was, which should kill any type of infection.  It may take a few injections to fully clear it.  I will keep you posted on how this works.  
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I just wrote a huge note and it didn't post as I think it was because I didn't sign in first.  So before I write another one I will just leave a small note and get back in a few days.

Sick past month, on Augmentin, Pepcid, Lasix.  Numerous symptoms similar to heavy metal /titanium toxiciy.  JUst found out from Pharmacist Augmentin and Pepcid has titanium in them, not lasix, those symptoms were different from the other 2.

Had CT Scan with dye (Barium sulfate). Juat looked it up and it is a heavy metal made with titanium (gives it the white color)  I stopped as much meds and milk, toothpaste with titanium in it and did better.  Most of my symptoms have disappeared until 1 month ago and got sick with a sinus infection and started with Aumentin and snowballed with symptoms.  NOw I realize these are the same symptoms I had with hevy metals and titanium implants.  So be careful of CT dye, never had a problem with it before, now it's a different story.  

Pharmacy will check for titanium in meds if MD writes TITANIUM FREE.

I got even better after switching from skin milk (titanium in it to make it white) to whole milk, changed toothpaste, and stopped using over the counter meds that have titanium in it.

Still feeling very ill, it's been only a few days since my CT Scan and stoppage of meds.  I ended up in the hospital and MD's took me off all meds and are restarting over.

Will get back soon.
\
hopefulinSJ:   my sinus problems started with a tooth infection and a root canal!!!!!!

blondiegirl:  Titanium testing is helpful if you have an allergy to it, it is not helpful if you are toxic like some of us are.   I would be very hesitant if I were you to get the implants.   I had mine out and now have a denture and I hate it, it will be a tough decision for you.  There are problems with Zirconium implants too.  Do more research.

Thanks everyone, this site is so helpful

Estring

3 class action suits now for Dupuy hip implants, transvaginal mesh and mesh used in hernia surgeries.  They all are made of titanium!

Will get back soon.

Estring
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You are in a hard situation as losing bone in your jaw has some unsettling consequences for as far as the appearance is concerned.  Are you saying that you are already having some unexplained physical symptoms due to the surgery you have had so far?  I too had aching feet and knees as well as itching on the back and legs soon after the single titanium implant with sinus lift and bone graft.  At the time it did not occur to me there was a connection, but now you have to wonder.

I am the person (former curedsoon) who started this thread and still have the implant as they are much easier to install rather than extract.  Last week I traveled out of state to the surgeon who I thought would remove it and he didn't as he is concerned that I could end up in a worse situation than I am now as far as the sinus is concerned.  He referred me to an ENT for evaluation and now I will be getting another CT scan before anything can be done.  

If I had known all I know now I would NEVER get another titanium implant.  It is my opinion that people with a family history of autoimmune and allergy problems are better off without foreign objects put in their bodies.  Prior to the implant I had a long list of allergies and sensitivities which have increased after the implant surgery.  From what I have read metal implants are not biologically inert--do a google search on the electrochemical corrosion of metal implants and see what appears.  You can also go to terf info (one word) and read about the harmful microbes harbored in the area of dental implants and the connection to autoimmune disease.

As far as the alloy (titanium, vanadium, and aluminum), a study cited in the "Journal of Materials Science:  Materials in Medicine"13 (2002) where it is found that titanium may be found in peri-implantar tissues, and the aluminum leaked diffusely into the surrounding bone.  It is not a comforting thought to me that aluminum is leaking into tissues so close to my brain!
The study was authored in Italy.  Apparantly this was not breaking news to the implant industry in the U.S..

The sinus perforation is yet another injury that can occur with the implants in the upper jaw.  Most of the studies I can find on sinus perforations are concerned with the effect the perforation has on the osseointegration of the implant--not whether you end up with a chronic infection or a anatomic abnormality that leads to a chronic sinus infection.  My problems with the sinus did not manifest until 6 months after the implant surgery.  From what I understand the membrane may not have healed correctly and the irregular surface acted as a nidus for microbes.  I just finished two weeks of Azithromycin/ and Nystatin which had me feeling pretty good.  The ENT I consulted with indicated that this could be a long term problem with the sinus and that it could require surgical debridement from time to time.  So, because some hot-shot Dr. drilled through the sinus and jammed a big implant up there I could be dealing with this indefinitely.  NICE.  


If I did get an implant I would choose ceramic.  I would have a CT scan done before and make sure you go to a competent surgeon who will at least not drill into your sinus cavity before the implant is installed.  It is also my understanding that many surgeons abandon the procedure if the sinus is perforated and wait for it to heal before installing an implant.  I wish that would have been done in my case.  I would ask what the protocol is in the event the sinus is perforated.  I would also ask what materials are available and from which companies.  I would find out the reputation of the company manufacturing the implant and want to know where the implant is manufactured, as many companies have operations in Mexico and China.  I would ask if there are any prior patients who developed unexplained physical symptoms after implant surgery and what, if anything, was done to assist this person in regaining their health.  I think I already know the answer there, but I would ask the question.

You are lucky that at least you have this information and now will not blindly proceed as the others who have posted here on this topic.

Good luck and take care of your health.


---Several family members and friends were thinking good thoughts and praying for me last week.  It will be a testament to their prayers if my sinus can stay well without further medical intervention.  As for the other symptoms of aching and numbness, there has been no definite medical explanation.  It would be so nice to feel normal again!
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Another question that would be good to know from a prospective surgeon would be the number of maxillary implants he/she has done relative to the number of sinus perforations.  Then, you can figure your odds of having a perforation.  In my case there was pre-existing sinusitis and the use of nasal steroids as well as the use of cpap therapy for sleeping.  Ask if you have any pre-existing conditions or health issues that could affect the healing of a perforation if one should occur.  It would be good to know if  there have been sinus perforations that have led to long term consequences for any previous patients.  

The implant manufactures should also be able to issue a patch of the materials used in their implants.  From what I have read there is some concern about the application of skin testing to the study of immune response to implants, but this is an option.

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Have any of you heard of the leukocyte migration inhibition testing (LIF or MIF testing)?  I found it in the "Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery", March 2001, Metal Sensitivity in Patients with Orthopaedic Implants.  This is another method of testing for a delayed-type of hypersensitivity and it would be good to know where to get it done, as it would be a way to get insurance to pay for the cost of removing the hardware.
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Another website that looks like it offers the lymphocyte transformation test is orthopedicanalysis on the web.  

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A conebeam CT scan has less radiation than a traditional medical CT scan and you can have an oralmaxillofacial radiologist read the scan at the service I have used.  Where I live it costs $300.00 and ins. doesn't cover it.
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I'm still sickly.  Don't know what is wrong with me.  Bottom line is don't implant anything into your body unless it has to be there.  For instance, a heart valve replacement.  Teeth?  Opt out.  There are other pretty options if you find the right doc.
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The website of Supra Alloys, Inc., a leading distributor of titanium alloys in the U.S. reports that titanium is biocompatible, non-toxic, and not rejected by the body.  Yay!  Oh yeah, we must all be having a dream (nightmare)!
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Last night there was an email notification of a post by an expert in metallurgy and prosthetics who posted on this forum, but the post isn't showing up on the site.  It would have been nice to know what this person has to say.  Did anyone else get the notification?
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I had two dental implants placed on the each side of my mouth, upper jaw, on June 14. About 5 weeks later, all hell broke loose. My symptoms have been:

Sporadic lack of appetite and weight loss (10-12 lbs)
# brain fog/confusion (much worse in last 2 months)
# Weakness and fatigue, especially in the morning (much worse in last 2 months)
# numbness of face and scalp (much worse in last 2 months)
#sporadically tingling scalp (much worse in last 2 months)
Sporadic tingling in forearms, hands, feet (sometimes whole body feels numb)
#Tight, heavy feeling shoulders and neck (much worse in last 2 months)
#Numbness and soreness of legs (sporadically, sometimes tingling (much worse in last 2 months)
Feet feel hot sometimes, for no reason (noticed this is March of this year)
# Sporadic pain in arms and legs
#Sporadic chest pain (but, I do have chronic costochondritis)
#insomnia (much worse in last 2 months)
#Breathing trouble
#Severe anxiety and depression, to the point that of despairing I will ever recover) (much worse in last 2 months)
#Lethargic (much worse in last 2 months)
#Derealization (much worse in last 2 months)
#Sporadic tinnitus (ringing or rumbling, had some tinnitus for many years due to chronic ear infections as a child)
Dry mouth
Occasional tingling in shoulders and neck
#Light and sound sensitivities (much worse in last 2 months)
Sporadic burning sensation of skin from just being touched/scratched
#Sporadic cough and dry, irritated throat (much worse in last 2 months)
Feeling poisoned and  just not myself
#Sporadic balance issues (mild)
Hair began graying around age 20
No motivation or optimism, can barely get ready for work in the morning and force myself to do simple tasks
Fatigue (I’ve generally had a degree of fatugie for much of my adult life)
Sense of smell comes and goes (less acute at times)
Numb and/or tingling genitals
#Sporadic palpitations
#Elevated heart rate
#Muscle/nerve twitching

The symptoms marked by the # are symptoms I have had sporadically, prior to the surgery, due to having been on ativan (which I tapered off of and have been off of for 2. 5 years, after having been on it for a year and a half). These symptoms had pretty much subsided, however, prior to the dental surgery. I am planning on getting the Melisa test.

I would like to know what would need to be done if I do get the implants removed. If the implants are taken out, being that I had a sinus bump, what needs to happen to make sure that the hole left behind isn't a problem. Are cubic zirconium or porcelain implants a good alternative? Any insight is so welcome. The last 3 months have been pure hell, but, by the grace of God, I am still here and believe that one way or another, things are going to get better.
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Curedsoon,
It looks like you live in my area. You mentioned a dentist in Glendale who deals with possible dental implant problems. I haven't been able to read back enough to find out if you have been to see him or if you have had your implants removed. But, I would like to hear about your experience. I have felt bad for 3 months. But, I don't know if it's the implants. I do plan to have the Melisa test. I would love to hear more about your experience and if you are feeling better. What I don't want is to rip out implants that are not a problem. But, if they are a problem, of course they need to go.
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I read some of these posts, but not all. It has been 2 months and a week since my two implants were removed. My symptoms are getting better, but are still there. I have good and bad days/moments. I have been on hollistic detox and meds for almost 7 weeks. My # in heavy metals is going down to normal levels, but I am high in other chemicals and toxins still. My Hollistic doctor is great and is very confident that I will get 100% better soon. I am improving, but not as fast as I would like to. My main complaint is still my forehead and cheek pain. There are times when I barely feel it and then there are hugh flare-ups.
pax9608 - I read that you had similar side effects as me. What were yours, if you don't mind me asking? You are lucky that you only had your implant in for 5-6 months. You should make a full recovery very quickly esp with the detox you're doing. I had 2 implants for 4 years and knew something was off, but kept listening to the doctors instead of myself until it got to the point where I had to take them out. I haven't gotten worse and am slowly getting better. Let me know how you're doing. If you want to talk my # 352-516-8194. I know we will make a full recovery, but it's nice to think it will be very soon as opposed to months away.
Estring - I hope you are doing well now. You are in my prayers. I have stopped using products with titanium while I'm detoxing, but I'm sure it's still in some of the things I eat, etc. I've been trying to eat only organic foods, lotion, hair products, etc. I don't think I'm allergic to titanium, but from being exposed for so long from it my body has built up a sensitivity to it. I wore my david yurmon earrings the other night (always wore them before w/o problems) and my ears were on fire! I got my belly button pierced when I was 18 and had to take it out  a week later because I got a rash in my belly button and my stomach hurt. I had never had an allergy before so I didn't think about it. When I was tested for allergies nothing came up. Obviously, now I know that I'm allergic to metals when they are in my skin. I will never be able to put a metal in my body again. Anyway, I hope you are doing much better. You said your symptoms were almost completely gone until you were re-exposed to a large amount of titamium? Let me know how you're doing. God bless.
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I am supposed to see my original oral surgeon on Thursday for follow up on the implants I had in June. I don't know what to say to him; "Have you heard of people having allergies to titanium?", "Have you ever had patients with an adverse reaction to implants?" Should I rattle off a few of my symptoms to get his attention? I do intend to let him know that the one implant is still sporadically painful, at times, that the right side of my tongue tingles, and some of the other symptoms. I'll leave out the psychological issues, because, for sure, he'll write me off as a "head case." I have contacted Dr. Vern Erwin in Glendale, CA and he wrote back to say he would like to do some blood tests. But, I have found some pretty negative reviews online for him. I found another holistic dentist in Glendale who seems to have good reviews (Sarkissian). I don't know where to start with all of this. I have asked my PCP to refer me to a neurologist, but, I'm not betting that a neurologist will recognize or believe I'm having a reaction to dental implants. Would my original oral surgeon remove the implants if I insist on it? Would this be a reliable way to have it done? I was told that the implants just screw in and out. It sounds like a simple enough  procedure. Should I insist on an xray to assess the state of my sinuses? I don't seem to be having a sinus issue, as of right now? What else needs to be done to insure proper healing and recovery after removal of an implant? I am not in any condition to travel around looking for a dentist to help me half way across the country. And, my brain fog makes research so difficult. I live in L.A., so, some good doctors should be here that can help. The dentist who did my implants has had tons of experience. So, maybe he can be the person to remove them. As I said, I don't know where to start. Some advice would be great.
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Hi there.  I am the former curedsoon who started this thread, but now going by smileynow--I thought changing names would somehow speed the process.  As you are finding, it is much easier to have implants installed than removed.  I don't live in Southern California, but have heard from a dental lab technician in my area that Dr. Michael Keramati in Encino is a person who does cavitation surgery and removal of implants.  I talked to him myself on the phone and he was very nice.  The only problem is I don't know anyone who personally has had experience with him.  

I had my one titanium implant installed in June 2009 and still have the irritating piece of crap in my head!  Last month I traveled to Santa Rosa to an oral surgeon who I thought would remove it and he referred me to an ENT for a sinus evaluation.  Today I had another CT scan to confirm the irritation that I have told them has been going on since Dec. 2009.  I had to leave town because all I have got in Nevada is denial, denial, denial of any problem with the implant or my sinus.  Meanwhile I have been on & off antimicrobials for nearly two years.  Pending results of the CT scan, the implant WILL be coming out.   The M.D. I have been seeing has recommended a dentist in Mesa, AZ--Michael Margolis.  He is not an oral surgeon, but I am told he has removed implants and that he does oral surgery regularly and that people travel long distance all the time to see him.  I would rather go to California, as it is closer for travel.  It would be interesting to know if you have heard of anyone who has experience with Dr. Keramati.

We have many symptoms that are similar.  I feel sorry for you.  I have been to several neurologists myself.  With the kind of symptoms you are having they will try to dump you in the MS bin, being it is a diagnosis of exclusion.  The problem is no neurological exam, eye exam, or MRI supports that diagnosis in my case.  I wish I would have saved myself the irritation and money of visiting any of them.  I would not let them do a MRI with contrast (gadolinium), as it is a metal and it appears (DUH!) I have issue with metals in the body.  The allergies and sensitivities I had previous to the implant and multiplied since this implant.  If I can recover from this it will be a priority to warn others of the risks.  

Let me know if you find out anything about Dr. Keramati, and I will keep you posted on the removal and recovery process on my end. :)
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So glad to hear you're doing better.  It's been about 4 weeks for me and like yourself, I have good and bad days.  The facial burning is the worst and is so unpredictable.  I'm also experiencing some body flushing (not as much since removal) that I was told was due to metal toxicity.

I am very interested in your detox protocol - when is a good time to call - I live in Florida?
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Thanks for your response. I spoke yesterday to a neuropsychologist that I work with and she is going to talk to a neurologist that she works with about my case. A positive thing is that nothing we talked about leads her to believe I have MS. So, I have confidence that I won't just be relegated to that category. Are all MRI's the same? Is it possible to get an MRI without contrast if I request it? I certainly don't want any extra toxins thrown into my body.

I know next to nothing about this process of having an implant removed. The oral surgeon who did the implants has been doing this procedure since 1985 and has been an instructor at USC. I hope that would make him pretty adept at removing the implants, if that's the way it should go. http://www.pasadenadentalimplants.com/about/index.htm  What is the procedure that should happen when removing the implant? Is this cavitation necessary and why? I am nearly as wary of holistic dentists and naturopaths as I am of traditional doctors and dentists, now. I went to a naturopath who wanted to give me a homeopathic remedy made from arsenic. That was all I needed to know to put me off of that doctor, and make me very wary of other naturopaths. If I get my original oral surgeon to do the removal of the implants, what else needs to be done to insure proper healing and recovery? What happens with the holes left in my mouth? Is the option of a bridge a good one? Or, can I just leave the holes (though, the holes make it very difficult to chew properly)?

I know that I have a ton of questions, but, this whole subject is mind-boggling. If you don't mind, would you list some of the symptoms that we share? Your posts are very detailed and well-worded, so, it seems like the brain fog might not be as intense for you. My heart goes out to you and the long process it has become to get the implants removed.
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Serbin,
Would you mind giving a quick read of my posts above and letting me know your thoughts? I am wondering what kind of procedure you had and what kind of dentist removed the implants. Was it a traditional dentist? Did you have the Melisa test? Any help or direction you can give with these questions would be so welcome. Thanks, so much, for any information you can share.

Nicole
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lambyoung, you should give serbin a call, not sure she checks in too often but i believe her phone number is in one of her posts.  i called her the day before i was sched to have my extraction done by the surgeon who placed it and she urged me to cancel and go to her surgeon (we live close).  I am so glad i listened to her.  he is is MD as well as DDS, specializes in oral maxillofacial surgery, does a ton of jaw surgeries and extractions.  if you get the extraction done by the same surgeon who placed it my guess is that the surgeon does not do nearly enough extractions to make them an expert.  the other factor is that if when the implant is removed and something doesn't look right the surgeon who did the work may not be forthcoming with the information.  i have read boards like this for dentists where a surgeon writes that they have placed an implant and it perforated the patient's sinus cavity and the surgeon was asking for advice about what to do.  all the dentists who gave advice told him not to mention it to the patient, "nothing bad is likely to result anyway".  well maybe nothing bad right then and there however, a year or 2 later when the patient is suffering from chronic sinusitis is on all kinds of meds and nothing is helping it would be nice to know that your dental implant has perffed your sinus and making you sick but by then you are not even thinking about the implant and you spend the next few years ill, miserable playing Sherlock Holmes while the surgeon is sleeping like a baby and bank account getting fatter.  when i finally did figure it out my oral surgeon and dentist told me it was extremely unlikely that my implant was making me sick, and that they had never heard any complaints from any other patient.  
sorry to go off on a rant, i am having a really bad day healthwise.  anyway, it is important to also ask the surgeon about grafting.  my first surgeon was insisting that i needed a graft to close the hole in my sinus (ha, if there even was one since he was denying it) and if there was no hole he said I would need to fill the space left by the implant and i opted for using my own bone instead of something synthetic, bovine or cadaver.  Serbin urged me not to do it, so glad i listened.  turns out despite the insistence of my first surgeon, the second surgeon said that he was very hesitant to put anything else in there that could cause a problem.  he said that bone is living tissue and it would heal on its own which it did.  i had a cone beam ct scan a month after extraction to make sure the hole was closing. regular ct scans are not sensitive to pick up things like a perffed sinus.  the other thing i insisted on was an xray after the extraction to make sure there were no metal shards left behind.  the one thing that i wish i had done but i didnt know about was look into having the surgical site cleaned with ozone after the extraction.  the microbial infection in the jaw/sinus is what is making me sick right now. there is almost zero possibility that some germs are not going to get into your jaw with a root canal or dental implant.  once introduced they turn into anaerobes which are extremely difficult to kill off and make you very ill.  they produce powerful toxins, some of which are carcinogenic.  do a quick google search on root canals and breast cancer.  scary.  i think smileynow may know something about ozone?  

smileynow, did i ask you already about ozone treatments?  sorry i am so foggy lately.  my issue right now is the anaerobes making me sick but my dr hasnt found a way to kill them.  i had 2 ozone injections but i am feeling worse.  hard to say though because mycoplasma pneumonia is back. what kind of ozone treatments were you getting?  did it help?  thanks for the info
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I had 4 upper implants removed in May after 5 months of them in with the same symptoms as you.   I did the whole routine like everyone else, visiting numerous doctors, etc.   They don't know anything at all about titanium or how it raveges your body.   The neurologist I saw told me my numbness and tingling was that I was a diabetic, I'm not!!!!

We are the ones who have been through it and have to teach them.  Only my ENT knew about titanium and what it can do.

I live in a major city on the east coast with supposedly the best hospitals.  They are clueless here completely!

I am presently suffering from the same symptoms from being given Barium Sulfate)  Cat Scan dye!!!  So far, it's been 2 weeks from hell.  So stay away from dyes.  This one had titanium in it.   So, not only did I get another heavy duty metal but it also contained titanium.   I think after the intial exposure to titanium, we become more suscepitble to anything with titanium in it.   I also had similar reaction with Augmentin.  Now my meds are titanium free.

I had my 4 implants out in about 30 min. by the oral surgeon, who was a DDS and MD.  She is the one that put them in.   I demanded they be removed,  She did see me failing the last few weeks.   I only had stitches and have not had any problem at all since I had them out.

Hope this helps.  
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I had ozone injected into the extraction site when I had the tooth next to the implant removed (the one they said was the cause of the trouble).  It was great and my symptoms temporarily resolved, but with the implant and infected bone graft and sinus trouble left behind it was not long before symptoms returned.  I also did 3 weeks of IV ozone infusions along with UV blood irradiation to kill infection which helped with some symptoms but with the implant and infected bone graft you know I was not dealing with the root of the problem, so to speak.  Some dentists do not using the ozone therapy as it is not yet approved by the FDA.  The titanium implants are, however.  With what we all have been through the FDA approval is not a gold seal in my book, anyway.  I am not only still looking for a qualified surgeon to remove this piece of crap, but one who will remove the diseased tissue and administer appropriate anti-infective measures to restore health.  You don't have to worry about me going back to the yahoo who installed the implant, as I dumped him when he said it was either the tooth adjacent to the implant or I needed a psychiatrist.  Well, that tooth was extracted earlier this year and the trouble persists.  What do you think?  Obviously I am coherent in spite of dealing with this crap since 2009!

The last ENT I saw finally admitted to there likely being an infective component likely initiated by the implant/bone graft/sinus perforation.  Gee, you don't think??  I am still waiting for the report on the CT scan done yesterday.  He said it was likely I had some sort of pathology going on in the sinus before this procedure.  You know the *** who installed the implant knew I used nasal steroids, had multiple allergies, daily sinus irrigations. etc..  What did he think (NOT!) would be the result of a sinus perforation, and what, if any, steps did he take to avoid such a complication?  

I have been so dizzy the last few days I started with the antibiotics and antifungal drugs, as they are the only way I have found to get some relief.  Didn't you tell me you tested positive for Lyme, also?  The M.D. who is treating me now said I was showing positive for it on the bioenergetic testing.  We hardly have any tics where I live in Nevada.  The only time I remember being bit by a tic was when I was 7 yrs. old living in Connecticut.  Weird!  

It is too bad you are having a relapse.  The last time you wrote I thought the anti-infective measures were having a positive implact on you.  Aren't you the person who said you have Lyme?
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Have you read about Neuralgia Induced Cavitational Osteonecrosis (NICO)?   I don't know if it could be a contributing factor, but one of the dentists I saw thought it was the cause of my issues.  I saw him about a year ago and I hesitated as what he wanted to do seemed so drastic, and I had heard that he is aggressive in his surgical technique.  He is also tempermental and paranoid as he is being harrassed by the dental board because NICO is not a politically correct diagnosis in mainstream dentistry.  This is because they would have to admit some of the standard practices in mainstream dentistry are causing touble for some people.  When I called him a few months ago he refused to take my case and told me he didn't want to hear my story.  

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I am rather confused as to how to proceed. I am also possibly fairly Vit. B deficient, which can produce all of these symptoms. But, it seems like the thing to do if I get the implants removed, is to have the areas cleaned with ozone, and have the holes filled in with my own bone. Here is the info on one particular dentist that I saw, at one point, to have the procedure done. I didn't go with him because his prices were so high. But, his credentials are extensive:
http://www.paccoastcenter.com/mee/mee_stephens.html

Does this guy look reputable? I know, it's hard to tell. But, I just don't have much knowledge of how to sort this all out. Here is another option for a person who is both a surgeon/M.D. John Lytle, near the bottom of the page.
http://www.foothilldentalimplants.com/lts-surgeons.htm

This is another dentist who did my wisdom teeth extraction last year. He was very kind and sympathetic:
http://www.spoms.com/dr-stephen-goei-dds.html

Here's one last possibility:
http://www.glendaleoralsurgerycenter.com/patient-information/meet-the-doctor/

I will be seeing my original surgeon this morning, for follow up. I will mention my problems, for what it's worth, and see what response I get.

Thanks for all of your input. Nicole
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Here is one more dentist, though, not an MD, he does use ozone:
http://www.pasadenalaserdentistry.com/our-team/
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I just got back from visiting the surgeon who put my implants in. I told him about my experience of symptoms, though, gave him a very limited list, so that he wouldn't automatically write me off. The short list I gave him was pain and pressure at the site of one of the implants, tingling on the right side of the tongue, head pressure, and scalp tingling and numbness. He wasn't sure what to make of it. But, it didn't seem like he thought I was crazy. A few Xrays were taken, which showed nothing, he tested the stability of the implants, both were stable and integrated. He placed a healing cap over one of the implants. Only one of them had been capped before. A CAT scan was also taken so he could review the sinuses and look for infection in the area of the painful implant. I have a follow-up appointment next week.

I asked his assistant if it was a big deal to remove and implant that was a problem. She said it wasn't a problem, that it happens sometimes but that it wasn't a big deal. She said that the bone would grow back into the space. That was some new information because I thought that there would be a gaping hole in the area and that I would have to have a graft. I would like to avoid any additional materials being put in my mouth, even if it's my own bone. If the bone grows in, that is very good news. So, I will return next week, and, I have the above listed dentists/doctors to consult as back ups.

Oh, I asked him if it were possible that my sinuses were punctured. He said he would have to look at the CAT scan, but, that if they were, it's not a big deal, they puncture sinuses fairly often and it's not a problem. I question that. So, I know that if there is a sinus problem, I can't count on him to be a reliable source of information about that.

So, this is where things stand now . . . I was hoping the implants weren't integrated. So, I'll just have to go from here. Nicole
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I have been where you are and learned a few things along the way.  First, there is no way to tell if the implant has completely osseointegrated until it is removed.  Mine had integrated everywhere except at the apex which had perffed my sinus.  This was only visible by the soft granulated tissue on the implant where there should have been bone.  The surgeon pointed this out to me after the extraction.  I felt lucky to have the info, it explained why my immune system was out of whack (bloodwork showed this) as my body had rejected it and was pumping inflammatory mediators into my body making me sick.

It is unlikely you will see a perforated sinus on a regular ct scan.  It is not sensitive enough.  You need a cone beam ct scan and most offices do not have them.  If your treating dr doesn't have one You have to go out of your way to find a dr who does them and then bring the report and films back to whomever is treating you.

As far as it not being a big deal that the implant may have perforated your sinus, it makes sense that the person responsible for that mistake is going to write it off as "not a big deal".  It is a big deal.  The standard of care should be that a patient receives a ct scan prior to placement of implant to make sure there is enough bone there so that the implant does not perf the sinus.  If there is not enough bone then the jaw is supposed to be built up with bone grafting.  The good surgeons do it that way.  Mine didn't.

Also, ct scan and MRI will not always show infection,  abscesses can show up but not all infections are abscesses.

The very experienced oral surgeon who did my extraction recommends avoiding bones grafts at all costs after a failed implant.  Even using your own bone for grafting material.  Your body can reject that also.  The bone should grow back as long as it is kept clean.

I hope you find a qualified surgeon.  I would see as many as you can and ask a lot of questions and then make your decision.
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You are exactly right that the person who perforated the sinus will write it off as no "big deal".  You will also find the same opinion if you stay in town and talk to his or her buddies.  It is a big deal, especially if you have pre-existing sinus/nasal/allergy symptoms, and any surgeon worth his salt should know it.  I clearly stated on my health info. that I used nasal steroids for years (making the sinus membrane thinner), had many allergies, and was irrigating my sinuses 2x daily prior to the dimwit drilling into the sinus cavity.  Then, 6 months later I have symptoms of infection.  This is because it never healed correctly and/ or there is a reaction to the grafting material and/or implant.  Now we know it would be prudent to have a cone beam CT scan done prior to implants, especially for someone with preexisting conditions.  We found out the hard way!  Some of these guys are way too nonchalant about installing implants in anyone with the money to pay them!

Thank you for the information about avoiding the grafting material at all costs.  I appreciate knowing your oral surgeons' recommendation of avoiding the grafting material.  That is why I didn't have the surgery performed by the periodontist who wants to repair the defect with cadaver bone.  

Thank you for all the links to the oral surgeons.  What I have found is that even some of the most highly qualified surgeons are either misinformed or lack the nads to acknowledge what is happening to some as a result of the standard practices in dentistry. It would be great to find a competent surgeon with the knowledge and experience to cure these kinds of problems currently not acknowledged by my of their contemporaries.  

Lambyoung72, I'll keep you posted on what I find available in California.  The oral surgeon who removed the tooth adjacent to the implant for me is Dr. Jarvis in Santa Rosa, CA..  He uses ozone, but is uncertain about removing the implant as he feels it is primarily a sinus issue.  I may have to go elsewhere as I have asked him twice about removing it and the piece of crap is still lodged in my head.  
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I received my dental implant in my lower right side first molar in late February, 2011. After approximately three or four weeks I started experiencing unusual symptoms of an allergic reaction.

This started as a few small bumps on my stomach area. Within another week I began experiencing a strange rash, starting on my right ankle, then spreading to my left knee. This rash/ hives grew more intense, moving to my groin area, inner thighs, and buttocks. I also experienced small itchy bumps along my waistline. Concerned that this could be some form of std, I saw a doctor and the Gay and Lesbian Center in Hollywood. I was given antihistamines, and cortisone cream.

I continued experiencing this rash for months, with varying intensity. It would seem to be clearing up, but before it did, would start up again.  After a few months I experienced a few other odd symptoms. I felt an odd stiffness in my thumb joints, and also a tenderness in the front of my right foot, just before the toes. I also felt a similare inflammation in my left should/ upper arm.

In September I experienced a tightening in my throat, and a dull pain in my gums. Also, my tongue was very tender on the sides. This went away after a few days. I also noticed a sensitivity of my tongue when brushing my teeth, almost a burning..

With no other explanation I began to suspect an allergic reaction to the implant. I looked up “titanium/implant allergy” on the internet. My symptoms matched what many others experienced; itchy rash, joint pain, strange sensations in the mouth. I’ve never had any kind of severe allergy, or rash/hives.

In late September I met with my dentist about having the implant removed. The rash had become more intense. He gave me an implant to tape to my ankle to check for an allergic reaction. Within two hours I had hives going up both sides of my torso, so I removed the implant from my ankle. The rash on my sides went away within a few hours.

24 hours before my appointment on Oct. 7,  I again taped the implant to my upper left ankle, to see if there would be a reaction. The next morning before my appointment  I removed the taped implant and noticed my skin had turned red underneath and started to blister slightly.

I had the implant removed that same morning. Upon removal of the implant my symptoms subsided. The burning in my tongue after brushing my teeth went away almost immediately. The itchy bumps on my scrotum started to subside after several months of not responding to antihistamines or creams. I’ve suffered no other joint pain, and the rash on my thighs, buttocks has lessened considerably, This is being written on the fifth day after removal of the implant.
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Okay,
Here is one dentist who offers cone cat scans in Pasadena. The doctor is also a maxilosurgeon:
http://www.kimberlyebnerdds.com/oral-surgery-patient-information/x-rays-ct-scans.html

But, my dentist/oral surgeon does use the Cone cat scan. So, that is one thing that I won't need to scramble around to find. I had the Cone I-Cat  scan yesterday (I has one done, also, prior to the surgery) and I will meet with the doctor next week to see what he finds.
http://www.pasadenadentalimplants.com/icat/index.htm

I can also get the copy of the scan and take it to other dentists/surgeons to see what they see, if I get the impression that I'm not getting the full scoop from him, which, at this point, I may or may not get. He did seem concerned for my symptoms. But, I'm willing to bet he won't admit that anything I'm experiencing is from the implants.

Nicole
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Hey, sorry just noticed your others posts, I am still really foggy.  Thanks for the info on ozone and UV.  I need to clear this mycoplasma and then will revisit that infection. (the mycoplasma is in my sinus as well as lungs).  I have never heard about NICO but will look into it, thanks for the info.  What your dentist did to you is really criminal considering you seem to be a walking contraindication for dental implant so close to the maxillary sinus.

It is so awesome that you found an MD who does bioenergetic testing, my has saved my life, literally.  Is that the dr who administered ozone and UV?  

Yes, you are correct, I have Lyme.  Diagnosed in April 2011 and cleared it after a few months of homeopathic treatments.  The thing that had the biggest impact I think is the KMT device I use every day.  I don't know how to explain it in detail but it delivers a micro current that is kind of like "shaking a tree".  The spirochete burrows and the micro current forces it out of hiding so the remedy can kill it.  It also is supposed to get the immune system to coexist, since you are never really cured.  Most people notice a huge improvement when they add the KMT treatments.  Lyme is pretty tricky.  I had it for 13 years and didn't know it, maybe you have had it all these years. I think my Dr follows a protocol by Dr Klinghadrt.  You can get more info here  http://www.betterhealthguy.com/joomla/images/stories/PDF/klinghardt%20-%20a%20unique%20healer.pdf

Overall, I have been doing a lot better.  Just the infection in the sinus/jaw from the root canal and implant giving me trouble, although the symptoms had gotten a lot better.  The lyme and mycoplasma can relapse but I am not so worried about those as I have cleared them before.  I am more worried about the anaerobic infection in my sinus/jaw whose toxins are linked to cancer.  

I hope you find a competent surgeon to do the extraction.  If not you can come out to Philly.  At least you will know you are in good hands.  
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Sounds like you figured everything rather quickly and are moving on to better health.  Good for you.  I wish I would have connected the dots sooner--maybe my sinus wouldn't be such a pain right now.  Thanks for writing in.

It doesn't sound like you got much resistance from your surgeon, either.  It's great your surgeon gave you a sample of the implant material so readily.  My surgeon never offered a sample of the material to me.  He seemed to have an agenda of proving the implant was not the issue.  Not helpful!
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I remember Serbin saying that Dr. ****** in PA did a good job of removing her hardware.  It sounds like you had a good experience as well.  I was trying to avoid the torture of air travel if possible, but at least we know he can get the job done.  

The Dr. I'm going to now didn't do the ozone & UV, but he does the bioenergetic testing.  I ended up going to him for a referral to an oral surgeon to take the implant out, and he referred me to the Dr. in AZ.  He told me to google Lee Cowden's Lyme Protocol, which I haven't.  He also gave me some Samento and Cumanda homeopathic meds for the Lyme, but I haven't done tried those, either.  

Last week I was so dizzy I had to start with the antibiotics again, as they really help.  Today I requested to look at the radiology report for the CT scan I had Tues. and the imaging center would not give it to me, as they said a Dr. has to request it for me and the Dr. who requested it is not in on Fridays.  Let's see.........I paid for it.........It's my body...........Hmmm, but I'm not entitled to see it?  It was a bad day.  The sinuses above my eyes ache, the tmjs have been causing a mega headache, and then dealing with the ridiculous rules of the imaging center.  
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On Oct. the following post #1252386 started out like this.........I am an expert in metallury prosthetic care.  The scientific community is crazy, is corrupted by pharaceuticalcompanies.  All alloys are toxic when-

It would have been nice to hear what this person had to say.  Did they change their mind and delete their post?  Did someone else delete the post?  What happened?
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Hey folks,
Just wanted to post as I've done lots and lots and lots of reading over the past couple years (son is autistic) and have traced it finally to the titanium dental implant in my mouth.

Titanium is a metal.  It is not harmless in your mouth (or rest of your body) as the med. community says it is.  Mercury, cadmium, lead, titanium - any metal in the body, particularly in the mouth, not only is unhealthy, but creates a "battery" in your mouth.  All that needs to be present for a battery charge is two metals, plus water (or ions).  Autoimmune disease is created in this process, because essentially .. well, here's a quote from the International Center for Nutritional Research: "Thio-ethers are "partial" antigens, haptens, and thus they also tend to combine with the normal proteins in the body, "denaturizing" them. Such denatured proteins become "non-self" agents, which the body must deal with as such. The production of antibodies adapted to the situation will be provoked, and they will home in on the target antigens wherever they are. The process of "auto-aggression" will be set in motion: self-destruction of agents alien to the organism. Extensive structural cellular damage will result and help create the environment for cancer."  
What this basically describes is how autoimmune reactions (your body attacking itself) come to be with mercury or other toxic metals in the body.

In my opinion, after much research and after doing a lot of detoxing with my son and him progressing when no one said he could, (plus with all my autoimmune issues), titanium isn't something to which we have an "allergy", traditionally, how we know it.  
Titanium is simply a toxic metal, which, along with mercury, lead, nickel and the many other metals some incredibly stupid or greedy people put in our mouths, should never ever ever be there.  Ever.  Just go to youtube and search 'mercury fillings'.  You'll find video showing how mercury 'smokes' and gives off toxic fumes .. even 30 years after being extracted out of someone's mouth.  I taste metal all the time, and especially around the area of my implant.

In addition, it is known that within root-canalled teeth (specifically in the tooth pulp) is a hotbed of bacteria that is 1,000 times more toxic that botulism.  This made me very sick (before my implant), especially when a dentist drilled a hole in mine and then it cracked.  I was getting severe  - unbearable, really - stomach pain.  Once the cracked tooth was extracted, it disappeared.

For those of you with metal in your mouth, get it out.

For those who have had it removed and are still suffering with symptoms, in my opinion, you must detox from the metal that's in your body.  Detox happens most through the urine and stool.  I've found Now Foods Candida Clear to be invaluable to me.
Also, I cut out gluten, and most dairy and soy from my diet.  Gluten is, essentially, glue and it holds everything in our bodies, making us constipated and preventing effective detoxification.  Usually, in these cases there is also a huge build up of yeast (candida) in the stomach, intestines, and also in the brain and all other organs. (this is systemic yeast)  It is actually parasitic.  Candida Clear works great.  I still have yet to find a totally gluten free probiotic that does not have maltodextrin in it.  (which has gluten)  For the best info. on how to avoid gluten, google celiac forum.  celiac.com forum is amazing for info on autoimmune diseases/conditions and good products vs. products that contain gluten.

You will feel loads better if you go gluten free. Just watch that you don't 'gluten' yourself and eating out is a royal pain.  You must always check to make sure they have a gluten-free menu.  Also, anything - abso. anythng including spices, flax oil, pills (especially tablets) foods,  - practically all processed foods, contain gluten.  I just started cooking a whole lot and making big batches of things.  Now Foods is, so far, the only responsible company I've found that labels all gluten and allergens.  Make sure to read the labels, though.  Some have soy..

I'm hoping once my implant is out and I've detoxed for several months, I will not need to go to as much extreme as to never eat gluten, but for now I must, because it makes me violently ill.  If you cut it out, you must stay with it, cause you're body will get stronger and then be stronger to attack itself (autoimmune attack) if you do, in fact, ingest gluten.  For me, though, there's no choice as I couldn't function and I have two small children to care for.

Best of luck to everyone.  God bless and if you ever want to email me:
***@****
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i Haven't been on, I didn't see the post.  It would have been nice to hear the info.

I am guessing you were referring to Dr Carrasca at Upenn?  I guess we can't refer to specific dr's?  Anyway, I thought he was excellent.  I am going to the National Integrated Health Associates in DC next week.  Seeing environmental medicine specialist.  

Hope you had some luck finding a surgeon for the extraction?
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Welcome and thanks so much for the valuable information.  Do you think you have entirely cleared the infection where your root canal was? How is your son doing?  
I have been doing a lot of reading about mold and apparently there is a genotype that makes people reactive to mold that is seen a lot in autism.  You may already be familiar with this?  Even if you are there is some really good info on a website.  If you google Pat Sullivan jigsaw health go to the blog that comes up.  They will delete the website if I post it here I think.  Well heck I will try, I'm not sure what they will delete.  Here is the link.  http://www.patsullivan.com/blog/autism/
once you are on the blog search for autism.
THanks again for sharing great info.  I started gluten free again.
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Hi it is Serbin,
I have typed several long notes and they don't seem to be posting.
I have been hearing from people from all over the country that are having
problems as listed above.  

After having them removed, now I am getting calls from all those people
saying they once again feel human. I know all my old buddies on this site have been following things right along with me.....and this is great news.

When implants work, they are the best thing going and when you react
to them, they are a living hell as shown by all the people that are tired, sore, aching all over, exhausted, ringing in ears, headaches, etc.

Hey Smileynow, heard from Carol and she feels terrific.  Able to go back to her job 100%.  Travels, and works out everyday at the gym, once again.

How great is that news.  Took a while til it got out of her system.  But day by day and week by week, she got better.!!!

6102798499  
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I met with my oral surgeon yesterday and let him know that my symptoms still persist. I stuck with a very short list because to include all of them is to risk not being taken seriously, at all. I asked about the possibility of titanium allergies/sensitivity and he said the the that evidence of that is anecdotal. But, he said that he would remove the implants for me and refund my money, if that was my choice. He said that the procedure is simple, that the implants can still be screwed out, even after 4 months of being there. We went over the Cone beam CAT scan and the sinuses were not punctured, he showed where there was still bone above the implant, no penetration into the sinuses. Thank God.


I have asked my PCP to help me get a Melisa test. But, I'm thinking I'm just going to get these nasty pieces of hardware out, Melisa test or none. I am praying to know the best way to take care of this and to have it done with the right person. I don't feel that it would be a bad choice to go with the surgeon who put them in. He is perfectly willing to take them out, if I choose to. He seems concerned for my symptoms, but, at a loss as to the cause. I asked if he had ever had a patient who had been allergic to titanium. He said that there was one person who thought this was the case. He removed the implants for her. Of course, she never gave him follow up information on how she did after that. But, I am glad to hear that he is willing to take them out.

I appreciate Estring's post that states that the symptoms were the same as mine. And, their implants were removed by the same dentist who put them in, a simple 30 procedure. I can't know all the variables and intricacies of bio-chemistry and medical in's and out's, all the what if's. Extring's story seems pretty cut and dry. Take the implants out and go from there. If recovery isn't fairly quick, then, look at other things. But, I don't feel like I need to chase after possible infections and microbes, until I find a reason to. My first step has to be to get the implants out.

That said, I intend to up my intake of Vit. C and begin using olive leaf extract to keep my immune system up and to head off any possible infection issues. Nicole
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Serbin,
Could you let me know a good time to call and talk to you about your experience? I appreciate you being to helpful to all of us.

Nicole
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I had my 4 implants out in May after 5 months of HELL.  The oral surgeon used a rachet to unscrew the implants.  I had 3-4 sutures, no antibiotics, just did saline rinses for 2 weeks.  It took 30 minutes, most of it was to wait for the novocaine to work.   It was a piece of cake!!  NO infections, nothing happened.

The best part was that night, the numbness and tingling and pain I had which started in my feet and went up to and included my groin area and some of the pain disappeared that night.  

In the morning, my feet were still numb though.  I was very debilitated the day before, I couldn't walk, I could only take a few steps, I had to use a cane, I was bent over, shuffled my feet, legs weak, so uncoordinated, I was tripping and falling, able to go up only 1 step with help.  By the end of the week I was walking without a cane.

The rest of my symptoms slowly disappeared over 3+ months except my toes are still numb (could be circulation)  I had severe muscle and joint pain, insomnia, I didn't sleep for 5 months, started sleeping a few hours longer weekly.   My 5 month old headache went away that night.

This whole journey cost me $13.000, the oral surgeon didn't charge for the removal.

Good luck with your choice and I hope you do as well as I did.
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The best MD to see for the titanium problem is an Environmental/Occupational Health Specialist.  They deal with industry, metals and chemicals.  You can find them in major cities, they work with the Public Health Department.   They are few and far between.

I recently had my implants out 5 months ago, I had a Cat Scan with dye/contrast and had a severe reaction.  It has barium sulfate and titanium in it.  I developed a partial bowel obstruction along with some titanium like symptoms.   It is now 4 weeks and I am slowly starting to recover.

It appears I have developed a sensitivity to titanium products.  I never had a reaction from the dye before, I also had the same reaction from Augmentin, an antibiotic, which I didn't have any problems before the implant.

I did find a list of foods with titanium.  It is not a complete list but can be helpful to us.  It is the Codex Alimentarius, it is a list of all foods and the chemicals that are added.  To get this list:  Google GSFA, click on "online food additives index" and go to T for titanium, etc.   What is not on that list is skim milk, it is naturally blue, and they use titanium in many products to whiten them.   It is also used in sour cream, cottage cheese, cream cheese, toothpaste and the worst and most is used in sunscreen.  Also mostly used in vitamins, and OTC and prescription meds.   My primary changed all my meds for titanium free pills. Liquid meds don't use titanium, it is used to make everything look NICE and White.  Look under "other ingredients" on the box to see if it contains titanium, it is usually at the bottom of the list.

I hate to become a fanatic but I am getting away from processed foods and now drinking organic whole milk, and using Whole Foods cheeses, etc.

Hope this is helpful
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I have a file still in my area of roots from a root canal and I'm having issues too. My dentist said it couldn't be the file
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Of course.  

If you aren't being helped go to another dentist.  Good luck.
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Somehow I missed your post on Oct. 12 where you mentioned you were gong to get an MRI.  I have had one and refused the Gadolinium contrast dye (to the disappointment of the neurologist) as it is a metal and I obviously have trouble with foreign substances and metal in my body.  I didn't need to go to medical school to figure it out either.  Just look above at Estrings' post and what happened to her.  I am glad I refused.  

I have symptoms of numbness and tingling in hands and feet as well as eye irritation in the eye above the implant.  All symptoms from the neck up completely disappear with the use of Azithromycin and Nyzoral (an antifungal).  Many months after the implant they figured the tooth adjacent to the implant was infected and so I did a retreat on a 25 year-old root canal in order to save the tooth.  In the end it needed to be extracted.  I feel like the grafting material and sinus is chronically infected and I feel sick and tired if I stop taking the antimicrobials.  Only the alternative M.D.s have listened to my symptoms and given me the drugs to alleviate my symptoms.  They think it needs to come out, but they aren't surgeons.  I have been examined by a rheumatologist, several neurologists, a neuro-opthamologist, and several ENTs who don't see any sign of disease.  So that is great news.  

The only person who could identify any type of pathology was a denstist who is also an osteopathic physician.  He thought I had neuralgia induced cavitational osteonecrosis (NICO), and wanted to remove the tooth which has since been extracted as well as the implant and surrounding bone.  It was early on, and I felt like he was being too extreme, so I didn't do it.  When I called him later he didn't want to take my case as he is in the process of retiring.  He is tempermental and a little paranoid as he is being harassed by the dental board for diagnosing and treating a condition not currently recognized by mainstreatm dentistry.  He wanted to do cavitation surgery on the entire area.  Maybe he was right, I don't know.  

To me the symptoms are also being caused by the titanium, as now that I have stopped with the titanium sunscreen every a.m. I don't have the itching on my back while I read the paper in the morning.  

It sounds like we are both on the West Coast. I am still searching for an oral surgeon to remove all this without adding bone grafting material.  I would like an oral surgeon who uses ozone.  It looks like quite a few dentists use ozone, but it is hard to find an oral surgeon who does.  

How are you doing?

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Estring,
I am thankful for your post. It gives me some encouragement that I am making good choices in taking out the implants with the original surgeon. The surgeon who did my implants has been doing implants for 25 years, and, has been a professor of dentistry at USC. I know that isn't a perfect guarantee, but, I feel it is certainly a positive point. That you didn't need to take antibiotics is a good thing, too. I am very concerned about jacking up my stomach with antibiotics. I was on Pepcid AC for two years for a now resolved ulcer (yes, Pepcid AC has titanium in it, too ... another issue. But, I finished tapering off of Pepcid earlier this month. So, my body is hopefully clearing that junk out of my system, too.) My stomach is feeling really good, now. Thank God. So, I don't want to test that with antibiotics.
In a previous post you mentioned that your symptoms were the same as mine. This has been the most horrific, scary, miserable 13 weeks of my life. If you have had the depression, anxiety, brain fog, and all the other bizarre symptoms that I've had, my heart truly goes out to you. I've been pouring over my vitamins and products that are in my house to make sure that there is no titanium. My vitamins don't list them, thank God. My foundation, according to CoverGirl, may or may not contain titanium. It's the last ingredient on the list, so, if it does contain titanium, it wouldn't be a lot. When I am feeling a bit better, I plan to replace all of my make up with make up from Whole Foods. . . they should have some make up without titanium.

So, my plan is to get 2-3 other second opinions from oral surgeons to make sure that what my original oral surgeon is telling me sounds right to them, that the implants can simply be screwed out. My oral surgeon also said that he might need to do a couple of stitches as well. So, it sounds like what he is proposing is the same procedure that you had. He also said that he would refund the amount of the surgery and implant. Thankfully, the implant process never got as far as having the crowns made, so, no money was wasted there. Thanks for sharing your story with me. I feel like yours is pretty close to mine. So, it helps to have this information.
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I have changed my mind, for the time being, on having an MRI. I don't think it's warranted. I plan on getting 2-3 second opinions from oral surgeons in the area and making sure that what my original surgeon tells me is correct. I don't feel uneasy with the thought of getting them out with the original surgeon. I know, some people choose to go another route. But, I feel that my original surgeon has a ton of experience in this area, and, should be a qualified person in this area. I have my before and after Cone Beam CT scans to show the other dentists I consult. So, that should also be helpful. All in all, if I had to have a bad dental implant experience, I picked the right dentist to have it with because he had the Cone Beam technology which is certainly a bonus.

I am very wary of naturpaths and holistic dentists, as much as I am wary of most traditional dentists and doctors. I believe that most doctors and dentists do want to help their patients. But, they are all trained in their specific medical worldview, so, they can only see things from that perspective. And, most doctors, regardless of their orientation are trained to push medications, whether pharmaceuticals, or, their favorite vitamins or herbs (usually, the ones they sell off of their own shelves. They don't send their patients over to The Vitamin Shoppe to pick up vitamins.)One naturpath that I saw wanted to give me a homeopathic remedy containing arsenic. That was enough for me to lose all trust in him. Another holistic dentist that I contacted regarding the implants, ended up having several reviews about doing unnecessary procedures. So, I feel like it's just a matter of doing the best you can to educate yourself and then praying you're making the right final decision. Thankfully, I have no sinus problems. My sinuses are fine and feel no different than they did before the surgery, no congestion, discharge, etc. I plan to hopefully have the implants out by the end of November, at latest.

I am sort of confused about the ozone thing, too. I don't know if it's safe because in my reading a few years ago regarding air cleaning machines, there were many warning about machines that produced ozone and that this was a dangerous thing. So, I don't know. I am sorry that you have chronically infected sinuses. That must be hard. The last sinus infection I had, that I remember was over 15 years ago. But, I remember feeling so bad and sick, feeling like my head was so heavy that it would pull me over.  I believe that my eye irritation is not really related to the implants. I have had dry eyes for several years now. I think that it's due to wearing contact lenses for so so many years, and, I just found out that I am rather Vit. A deficient, which, makes all of the mucous membranes dry. So, I've started taking more Vit. A to help with that. And, I'm considering wearing my contacts less.

Yes, I live in the L.A. area. I am thankful that there are a lot of good doctors and dentists right here in the town I live in that I can consult with. I will let every one know how things go as I progress.
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I am interested in the mycoplasma being discussed on this forum. I have looked on the internet and it seems like there is some really different, varying information on it. Some, more traditional medical resources say that it's treated with a two week course of antibiotics:
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/disorders/infections/hic_ureaplasma_and_mycoplasma.aspx

Others say, it takes a 6 month to 2 year course of antibiotics. Others say the best course is natural regimens. Does anyone have good information on this? What is the natural regimen, what is used to eradicate it, and, how long does it take to get rid of it? Are there good reliable resources on the subject from doctors/clinics that aren't trying to push a product? What can be done to protect yourself from further infection? It's confusing to read the different materials because some sources say, it goes away on its own, no treatment needed, others, say, it has to be aggressively treated. Just wondering about this ...
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I thought that this was an interesting resource for mycoplasma. Of course, this is a clinic with products and agendas to push. I have visited the local clinic twice and the doctor focused on my thyroid. The thyroid levels were normal then, and, I had them retested last week, and they're even better. But, it's interesting what they say about mycoplasma and the treatment. They reference using a cholesterol medication and mega doses of Vit. C with an alkaline diet. I looked at akaline diets and, basically, you can't eat anything.

I have been tested twice for mycoplasma. A month a half ago, my levels were:
377 (IgG/IgM abs), reference Positive >320
IgM Abs <770m, reference Negative <770, Low Positive 770-950

My test results from last week are:

338 IgG/IgM Abs
<770 IgM Abs

So, it looks like I have mycoplasma, that I'm not one of those people for whom it has gone away on it's own, though, the levels are going down. I know that my PCP will want to treat me with the typical 2 week course of antibiotics. I wonder if I should give that a try and then try other treatment if that doesn't work, or, just go for the natural treatment right away. And, I'm guessing my husband will need to be treated. After I recover, we are going to start a family. So, I'll want us both to be clear of this virus. It looks like the mycoplasma can be treated and eradicated in a few weeks, according to Dr. Holtorff, when treated.

My plan is to stick with getting the implants removed. Is it okay to go ahead with that and then address the mycoplasma? Or, do it simultaneously? How harsh is the mycoplasma treatment, I'm very sensitive to medications.
http://www.hormoneandlongevitycenter.com/cfidsfibromyalgia/#9

BTW, I've been tested for all of the neurotoxin related diseases and I'm negative on everything except the mycoplasma. Thank God!!

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This can be because of the use of implants made of Grade 5 titnanium which are very cheaply available in the market. These are actually not pure titanium. These implants are made of ti alloy which is 6% Aluminium and 4% Vanadium.
Aluminium is notorious for its toxicity starting from mild allergy to Nervous disorders, and it should not be included in any thing that is food or drug. FDA approves this in a general category and there are lot of heated discussions going on related to this. But still FDA approves this. Most of the low cost implants made from Grade 5 Titanium is from Israel. May be this expains why they manage to get FDA approval...
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Well thank you for this information.  When I started having trouble I asked the perio who installed my implant what the content was and he gave me a specification sheet that stated it is 6% aluminum, Fe Max 0.14, O Max0.13, Ti 90%, and Vanadium 4%.  Oh yes, now I see it is grade 5 titanium.  So that is a low grade of titanium compared to others on the market?  I did read an Italian study that found Aluminum leaked diffusely into surrounding tissues.  I guess not a problem in this country?  

If I had been offered a choice of course I would not want Aluminum near my brain.  I went to a professional known for doing good quality implant work, so I just assumed he would be using the highest quality of materials.  Another periodontist I consulted with also considered the BioOss used in my grafting procedure to be something of an inferior quality.  He said the stuff is "crap", and that he does not use it.  

How is it that they are not required to inform us of what materials are available before installing something permanent in our bodies?????

Lambyoung, I am also wary of the holistic practitioners who want to sell products.  At least with them we have a chance to research the ingredients on the bottle before we ingest it!  
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Glad I found this place.
I have just decided to have two implants taken out. It has been almost 4 years since they were put in and I have had illness that mimics auto immune issues.
Luckiliy I have found 2 dentist to work with that have a high success rate.
I will have the titatium replaced with zirconium.  
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Hopefully it was the titanium causing the autoimmune issues and not a foreign body reaction due to having something implanted in the bone.  From what I have read the zirconium sounds like it would be more biocompatible.  However, according to research done by Toxic Elements Research Foundation (terfinfo) ANYTHING implanted in the bone triggers an autoimmune response.  They also found more than a dozen types of anaerobic bacteria in bone grafts and metal implants voluntarily removed from people whose implants appeared healthy on x-rays.

If I am fortunate enough to find a talented surgeon to successfully remove this implant and allow the sinus to heal, I will be happy to restore my health without taking any added risks of implanting something into the bone.

Good luck in the removal process and hopefully the zirconium will agree with you.:)
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Thank you for this info as it is good to know. The issue for me is one of the implants is a front tooth so I want it to look as good as possible. I will for sure bring this up with my new dentist that will be doing the work. They seem to be very in the know about these sort of things and have worked with many patients, removing and replacing the implants.
A bridge may be the best solution.
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If they have removed many of the osseointegrated titanium implants and are somewhere in the Western U.S. I would be interested to know who they are, as I am planning to get mine removed.  If they are replacing the titanium implants with the zirconium perhaps they are more progressive than the dentists who do not recognize that metal implanted in the bone is causing health concerns for some people.

Thanks.
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I am going to meet with the dentist this week. When I talked to him on the phone he refered me to the endodonist that replaces them. I met with him and he told me it would be no problem to take them out and replace with zirconium. Both dentists said they have done this many times with good results. I live in Southern Ca. I will keep you posted on what the dentist says and I will share with him what you shared with me.
What does osseointegrated titanium implants mean?
BTW when I spoke to the dentist on the phone he is a dentist that totally understands all of this. i feel blessed to have located him and he is in my town! I was prepared to go to Mexico if need be.
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Osseointegrated implants are those that are anchored to the jaw bone.  From what I understand the bone grows around the titanium and it becomes part of the jaw bone.  This seems to be the only measure of "success" in the studies.  

Weird body symptoms, increased sensitivity to other products containing titanium, sinus inflammation in the maxillary sinus above an implant, burning mouth syndrome, numb feet, itching back,etc..--apparently these don't matter.  If the implant integrates with the bone (never mind that your bone has been tricked), you are a "success".  Congratulations.

It sounds unusual for an endodontist to be placing implants.  I had mine placed by a periodontist.  Usually oral surgeons and periodontists are the most familiar with surgical procedures involving the bone, so this would make sense.  I guess there are general dentists who can take a course and learn how to perform implant surgery, but it would seem safer to trust an oral surgeon or periodontist for such procedures.  Oh, and listen to me.  Look at where I am.  LOL!
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Too bad you are not on the east coast.  I went to National Integrated Health Associates in DC last week and was really impressed with the two dentists I met with.  They are using mostly ceramic for implants there but will test patients first for sensitivities before doing any dental work.

I was impressed wit the MD I met with as well.  Seems like the ozone injections I had killed the infection in my jaw, just took a while for me to bounce back.  My MD here has been ordering ozone saunas and putting the gas directly in my ears, which has really helped clear my sinuses.  I am feeling better than I have in a long time.

What cities are you close to?  I follow up with the dentist at NIHA on Nov 7 and will ask him if he refers to anyone on the west coast.
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That is great news you are doing so well.  I am hoping to get some ozone treatments as well in order to avert having any sinus surgery or major debridement of the jaw bone.  Oral surgeons who use ozone are a rarity, I am finding.  The one I did find did not want to remove the implant as he feels I may end up with a fistula.

There is a website called osseo news, (put the word together) for clinicians who perform implant surgery.  From what I have been reading it would seem someone like me who, prior to the surgery, was irrigating the sinuses 2x daily and using nasal steroids for chronic sinus and allergy symptoms would not be a person you would perform a sinus lift on.  Most certainly perforating the sinus in this situation would result in a problem, either immediate or delayed.  I have seen soooo many ENTs, oral surgeons, 2 periodontists.  All the dentists stick together and say "well, it is a common occurance to perforate the sinus with such procedures (indicating it is no big deal)".  Why is it I have to find this stuff out myself?  I should have never had the implant in the first place!

The largest cities closest to me would be Sacramento, CA and San Fransisco.  

Ozone saunas?  I didn't think you could breathe ozone?  That is interesting about putting it in your ears--I guess it just infiltrates every where?  So you had the surgery to remove the implant in Pennsylvania and now are seeing these integrative dentists in DC who are administering the ozone injections to the jaw.  If I remember, you had a sinus perforation as well?  Was your implant perforating the sinus when the Dr. in PA removed it?  Do you mind telling me how long ago you had it removed?

That will be great if you can ask your dentists about someone in the Western U.S..  

Thanks.:)



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I meet with the dentist tomorrow. From what I gather the endodonist works with him and they do test all materials before putting them in your mouth. They have done this many times. We'll see.
Like you I say what do i know, look where I am now? There are not alot of options out there.I will keep you all posted. I am certain that my implants have bonded with the bone. The endo said he will contact the pero that put them in and can get the right tool to take it out. I know the pero that put them in thinks i am nuts. They really do not understand. I have found two dentist that have been doing this a while and seem to get it. It is such a big decision. I think my long term plan is to have a metal free mouth then possibly detox from any metal poisioning in my body. (had all my mercury filling removed 6 years ago, which was a nightmare, a whole other story)
Glad for the support here.
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I am thinking and praying about the timing of having my implants out. I am thinking that next week might be the time I have it done. Every day and week that I wait, the more time that is going by, allowing the implants to bond with the bone. At this point, I have been assured (by my original oral surgeon and another maxillo doctor) that the implant can be screwed out. Right now, the implants have only been in for about 4.5 weeks. So, I don't want to wait much longer. I am looking into having one more second opinion and then would like to go ahead with the removal.

My doctor (PCP) and the maxillo surgeon that I consulted for a second opinion say that there should be no issue with the mycoplasma in removing the implants. Actually, I feel that I may be getting over the mycoplasma, my energy seems to be improving. So, I am thankful for that. I plan on using a humidifier to breath in sea salt water and hydrate my lungs. That might be an additional help in ridding my body from bacteria.

I am also wondering about the best option for replacing the implants, meaning, is a bridge an option? I don't want any more metal in my mouth, but, I do want to be able to chew. So, any thoughts are very welcome.

Nicole
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I just wanted to check and see how you are doing. Are your symptoms beginning to subside after your augmentin/CAT scan issues? Hoping that you're feeling better.

Nicole
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I didn't have a cone beam ct scan until after the extraction so the oral surgeon who removed it did not know if the implant had perffed my sinus until after he removed it.  He said that if there was communication between the mouth and sinus after he removed the implant, meaning a hole in my sinus, he would use tiny amount of cotton to close it, not really a true patch, just enough to stop the communication until my body healed the hole.  He was adamant about not using another foreign substance to patch the hole.

I had the implant removed at Upenn 10 months ago.  My MD close to my home is administering ozone, new treatment for him in the last month or so.  I went to DC for a second opinion regarding his ozone protocol as they do a lot of ozone there and have been doing it for quite a while.  I am very comfortable with my treatment plan and it is helping a lot.

The ozone has apparently cleared the infection and now I am using it to boost my immune system so I can fully recover.  My immune system took a big hit, tests show I am not making antibodies to fight off things like the flu, bronchitis and pneumonia.  The ozone works wonders for immune system and chronic fatigue.  

You are right about the hazard of inhaling pure ozone.  Very bad for the lungs, esp for people with asthma or other respiratory problems.  The sauna is actually a cabinet that you step into, sit down and shut the door.  There is a cut out for your head so it is not inside the cabinet.  The last time I had a sauna, under the drs guidance I inhaled some of the ozone steam, which is not pure ozone gas.  It helped clear my sinus.  I think the ozone in my ears helped sinuses even better.  I have also used ozonated olive oil directly in my sinuses.  You can purchase that on the internet.  The ozone is the one thing that is making a positive difference for me. The literature that I came across about the hazards of ozone refer to use of the pure gas in the environment, usually to kill off mold, which is a hazard for the lungs.  I have not been exposed to pure gas ozone in my lungs and like I said, after years of suffering this is the only thing that gives me relief and promises a cure.

I hope you have good luck with avoiding any sinus surgery.  I know you don't want to have the jaw bone debrided, I am pretty sure the dentists in DC told me that in some cases it is necessary.  They said an infection can clear after 1-3 ozone infections.  I guess if it doesn't clear after 3 they would consider debridement.  I was lucky, mine took 2.  I really hope that yours clear with just ozone.  

I am going to throw something else out at you, since our cases seem similar.  The dentist in DC said that my tongue was showing signs of a sleep disorder (dents on the sides) like something was going on with my jaw.  I was impressed as I had not mentioned that I had TMJ and that I was not sleeping well at all.  He picked right up on something I don't even mention to people.  He sent me for a sleep study which I did last weekend.  His theory is that whatever is going on with my jaw and the fact that I already have sinus issues may be obstructing my airway and my sleep.  Without adequate oxygen and REM sleep my body has not been able to completely heal.  Sounded really kooky to me, totally out of left field but now that I have had time to think about it he may be right.  I get the results on Monday.  Imagine, this whole thing could be fixed with an appliance to wear at night!  He doesn't use cpap machines and can get people off of them.  

I will ask him about drs in your area.  I can't wait for you to get that thing out of your head.
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When you had the implant removed, did your doctor actually place the cotton patch in the implant site? Does the cotton dissolve or did it have to be removed later on? I'm just wondering. The Cone Beam CT scan that I had about 2 weeks ago doesn't show a perforation of my sinuses. But, if when I have the implants removed, if a hole is discovered, it would probably be a good idea to have something in between the two areas while my sinus membrane reforms.

Nicole
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yes, he used a tiny amount of what he described to be a "cotton-like substance" maybe it was actually cotton, I can't remember.  He didn't want to do a graft because my immune system was already in overdrive. Whatever he used dissolved within a few days, I didn't even know it was there.  

If your implant did perf your sinus you will get other instructions like to avoid blowing your nose, don't use a straw, things like that.  It really was not a big deal at all and I was glad to avoid a graft
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Thanks for this information. Yes, my surgeon has let me know that the bone will grown back and no bone grafts will be done. That is a load off of my mind that it won't even be considered in removing the implants. As of right now, I plan to have the implants removed this Saturday. I will definitely talk to the surgeon about the "cotton" patch in case there is any perforation. As things are now, there seems to be no perforation. But, in consulting another oral surgeon for a second opinion about the removal of the implants, I was told that the sinus membrane might stick to the implant on the way out, as it's being removed. So, it's good to have this back up plan, that that case.
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It will be great if you can start to feel better after this Saturday!  Is this is a different surgeon other than who intalled your implants, or have you found another surgeon to remove them?  I also can't remember if you had bone grafting and a sinus lift done when your two implants were installed?  Now that is a scary thought of having the membrane stick to the implant.  Let's hope not.  

I am still living with my one implant and looking for a surgeon who can remove the implant and bone graft, but somehow render the area good for healing.  I am set to have a phone consultation this Thurs. with a Dr. in AZ. so I will let you know how that goes.  If your surgeon at USC removes many osseointegrated implants I would it would be great if you can tell me his name--CA is much closer than AZ for me.  It sounds like he is going to do everything possible to avoid adding grafting material to your jaw.  In my case the implant is replacing a first molar in the upper jaw.  It sounds like you have an implant on each side of your upper jaw.  From what I've read the upper first molar is commonly implicated in sinus perforations, so that partly explains my predicament.

I will be thinking good thoughts for you!

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Did you get the results of your sleep study?  

Unfortunately one more thing we have in common.  From what I understand the dental appliance (mandibular advancement device) only works for mild to moderate sleep apnea.  I have tried several and right now am using a Herbst dental appliance, which is the best out of the three I have tried.  One was a molded plastic device that held your jaw in one place all night.  It was terrible as far as making my jaw sore and also sometimes my teeth would slip out of it.  Another appliance I tried was the Somnomed--a pink adjustable appliance with long prongs that look like fangs.  Hideous and too bulky if you end up trying a cpap mask ontop of it.  The herbst is adjustable and not too bulky.  I went to a dentist who specializes in TMJ and sleep dentistry.  He did a great job and I don't know if another dentist without his expertise would have done such a good job.  I originally went to him for TMJ trouble and he told me the reason my jaw hurt was because I was clenching my jaw all night because of not getting enough air.  He is the one who insisted on me getting a sleep study--and he was right about the apnea, which was severe.  The TMJ disappeared when the apnea was addressed.  The only bad news is that chronic nasal congestion renders cpap therapy ineffective.  Nasal congestion is detrimental to anyones' sleep, whether they have apnea or not.  It is the one good thing in this whole odyssey I have found --using antimicrobials clears my nose completely.  I know this is not a way most people want to live, but right now the sleep is great.

How is your sinus since the implant removal?  I have been reading that the bovine bone grafting material used in my case is not favored by some doctors because they consider it to be allergenic.  Oh yeah, just what we need shoved up under the sinus!  I cannot believe I paid for this crap!!

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Thanks for checking on me. I am praying that I will feel much better after the removal, too. Right now, it's hard to know if I'm feeling so badly because of the implants or because of the mycoplasma that I have. Many people can just fight off mycoplasma on their own, it's a weird sort of bacteria. So, I don't know what is making me feel this way. It's a process of elimination for us, and, a whole lot of prayer and leaning on our faith.

The surgeon who is removing the implant is the surgeon who installed them, he is also the USC professor. I didn't, thankfully, have bone grafting. I did have a sinus bump, which is a kind of modified sinus lift. My two implants are one on each side of the upper jaw, one is the first molar and the other is a second premolar. In looking over my post-op Cone Beam CT scan, the surgeon said that the sinus isn't perforated. But, I will bring that up again this Saturday to make sure that this is reconfirmed.

I believe that my surgeon does remove osseointegrated implants because I asked what the procedure would be if the implant doesn't screw out easily and they told me about the tool that is used to cut the implant out. Even the dental assistants were familiar with it. So, they seem knowledgeable about it. I will be having another thorough conversation with the surgeon prior to the removal. I'll make sure to address the sinus sticking to the implant issue, as well as the patching that hopefulinSJ described in her post. My husband and mother in law are going to be with me, so, we'll make sure that we're all hearing and understanding the same thing.

I hope that your phone consultation goes well.
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Update: Met with the dentist here, right in my town, who has alot of experience and knowledge with this. I am going to have my two implants removed ASAP. I will let you all know what happens. i expect the best! :)
Smilelynow I read about your experience with neuroligist and the MS thing. My experieice as well.
Still strongly considering the zirconium as this is a front tooth. If it was a back one I would skip it. My new dentist is the dentist to a popular health professinal that is a purest and he is having a zirconium implant done by my dentist. So that gives me some reassurence.
I am still very nervous about this and it is a very big deal.But I am certain I have NO choice but to remove them or just get sicker. Thanks for the support here.
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Sorry for the lapse.  My new dr at NIHA has ordered some new tests so I am running around again.  I asked about a referral to someone in your area and he recommended a phone consult so he could steer you in the right direction.  if you google national integrated health associates in dc you can get the number. his name is Lowell Weiner but if they delete his name there are only three dentists there and when you explain your case they will hook you up with him, he is the expert on these matters.

i am really impressed with his knowledge.  he totally understands how the implant wrecked my health and he knows how to fix it.  i will try to paraphrase what he said about my case.  i likely have some metal allergy  or toxicity (all my tests are pending at this point except for sleep study) but the thing that really made me sick was that i had 7 underlying infections (lyme, mycoplasma, c. pneumonia , mold in sinus to name a few) probably for years before i had the implant and i was living fine.  immune system working and i didn't know about the infections.  then i had the implant placed and whammo, sick as a dog.  apparently the metal made the environment in my body very acidic and then all the microbes had a feeding frenzy.  i felt better after the implant was removed but have been still pretty ill these last 10 months because the infections were still active.  

so for the past 6 months my dr here has done a good job of killing off the infections, the toughest of all was the one in my jaw/sinus from where the implant provided a very fertile breeding ground (as you so astutely diagnosed as NICO from across the country while 12 drs i had seen and asked previously just basically ignored the question).  2 ozone injections did the trick (after a two week herxheimer reaction from hell) and now it seems the toxins that are left over are causing adrenal fatigue and continuing to suppress my immune system.

so now i have been getting ozone saunas and insufflation from my dr here and it is really helping.  the ozone detoxes the body and also boosts immune function.  i really feel like i am turning a corner.

my sleep study came back negative for apnea but abnormal in that I had almost 100 micro-arousals and spent double the amount of normal time in REM.  I had no idea such a thing was possible however, learned that when you are sleep deprived REM rebound happens and you can go right into REM wake up and go right back into REM again the next minute.  No wonder i am so exhausted, the nightmares are so ridiculous they really can't be considered nightmares.  I am going for a day time study next week to try to find out more.  Can't wait till i can sleep again.

DId you have your phone consult with AZ yet?  
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good luck with your extraction, i hope all goes well.

i also have mycoplasma and after many many rounds of antibiotics found that the homeopathic remedy my MD gave me works best.  i just finished my second round.  first one i had over the summer cleared it but it came back last month.  my igg subclasses 2 and 4 are depressed meaning the part of my immune system that makes antibodies against things like the flu, pneumonia, bronchitis doesnt work, so i am not surprised it came back.  My husband and daughter also had it and they both cleared it with just one round of the homeopathic remedy.  hope this helps
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just wanted to let you know that the dentists at National Integrated Health Associates in Washington DC also use the zirconium implants, also known as ceramic.  zirconium is the most bio-compatable implant available  

good luck with your extraction.
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Thanks for your encouragement and the information.

It looks like the levels of mycoplasma are going down. I have been taking a lot of natural supplements like olive leaf, echinacea, and oregano, with lots of vitamin C for the last 2 weeks (a holistic dentist informed me of the supplements to use). Also, the mycoplasma isn't acute, the levels I have are from a past infection, though, it's hard to say how recent it was. My IGM levels are negative.The levels of my IGG went from 377 in Sept. to 338 a month later. So, it's good that it started going down on its own (I didn't increase my Vit C and supplements until 2 weeks ago), in a month. My doctor will test me again next week to see what the levels are like to see where to go from there. We've been holding off on giving me antiobiotics because they can be so harsh. My doctor has studied mycoplasma very extensively. So, I trust her and her guidance with this. So far, things are going in the right direction.
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I hope you are doing alright and that the surgery went smoothly for you.:)
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Thank you for the information regarding Dr. Weiner.  I may be calling him for a consultation.  My phone consultation with the AZ Dr. was o.k., and he offers complementary treatments such as ozone and other anti-infectives.  He also has a cavitat machine for diagnosing cavitations, something I am very interested in.  From what I understand this device is highly accurate in diagnosing cavitations, but is not being actively marketed because of opposition from the ADA and also the cost involved with obtaining the device.  I am somewhat hesitant to have him remove the implant as he is not an oral surgeon and I am unclear about how many osseointegrated implants he has removed.  Other factors in my situation are the proximity to the sinus and having a thin, delicate (words of a periodontist) jaw bone.  Removing a large implant from that type of situation is worse than a small implant from a more substantial bone.  Why I have such a big implant is a mystery to me, but I do remember the Dr. asking the assistant for a certain size which was she said she didn't have.  Then, I remember him telling her to order more of that size and he went ahead and put the size they had in my jaw that day.  Anyway, the AZ guy doesn't seem too worried.  My past experience tells me this isn't always a good thing.  Sometimes a little caution is a good thing--it sure would have been in my case.  Another issue is that he wants to fill the defect with cadaver bone, and my allergist said my blood work was inconclusive, but that he thought it could be a "foreign body reaction".  For this reason I am hesitant to add anything else foreign.

Maybe Lambyoung will have good things to say about her surgeon.  It is not too hard to get to LA from where I am at.  

Do you mind telling me the remedies for your infections that have been working for you?  I have been taking antibiotics/antifungals for almost two years now for this stubborn infection.  I am thankful for the alternative practitioners who have helped me so far.  Someone I know has a husband (just one:))who has suffered with pain around implants for a long time and was told there was no reason for his symptoms--that it must be "in his head",(isn't that the truth!)  Well, he ended up in intensive care with a severe infection of unknown origin last year.  It's a mystery, isn't it?   Geeze!  He eventually recovered, but is still living with the implants, which, of course had nothing to do with the infection.  


Thanks for your support.:)



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First time poster here.

I have been struggling with numbness around my LHS of my head, arm, leg and foot for about 6 weeks now. My doctor has thrown everything at it. I have had 2 MRI scans and were we heading down the Neurological path until the numbness started moving over also to the RHS.  The MRI both return a non specific results

In March this year I had two Titanium dental implants in my lower left jaw. Everything was fine until probably about 6-8 weeks ago when I started getting the numbness sensation around the LHS of my face and scalp and started predominately down the LHS of my limbs. It is a disconcerting feeling not debilitating and definitely not going away.

So I thought could there be an association between the implants and what I am experiencing and doing a Google search stumbled on the Medhelp website and this thread.

I have seen a number of posters with similar issues to mine.

What is the best tests I can have to confirm if I have an allergy to Titanium?

Assuming I test postive for an allergy what is the options to have the implants replaced with another material. I have nothing to bridge where the implants so I will need to replace them with an alternative. What are the best alternatives.

I know I am getting ahead of my self but given it is not confirmed but I see it as the most likely cause given what I have read here. I would like to be informed before my next doctor's appointment tomorrow so I can bring suggestions to the table.

Appreciate finding out what tests I should have and what options there would be to replace the Titanium implants.

The tread suggests that there are vanadium and aluminium .....I have also seen Zirconium mentioned. What would be the best alternative should they need replacing?

I appreciate your feedback.

Regards,

Fleetz
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Fleetz---Zirconium is the best choice for a replacement implant.
If your dentist is not open to removing implants try to find one that is. My typical dentists did not listen to me when I shared my weird symproms that came up after 2 implants. Now 4 years later and symptoms that got worse, I am taking this into my own hands and getting them removed soon.  I have found a dentis and oral surgeopn that are in agreement with me.
I heard the Melissa test will test for allergies but will not show sensitivities. In other words you may not show for an allergy but the implants could still be causing you issue.
All the Best,
Terry    
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Thanks for the feedback Terry. Good luck with your situation...

It sounds like you have a plan in place as I must do. I am seeing my Doctor today, I have pointed him to this thread on the forum as support of the association of my symptoms and the good possibility of Ti implant being the cause.

So my quest is likely to be find a dentist/oral surgeon that will take the Ti ones out and replace them with whatever is the best alternative.

Is it possible ti simply have them removed and replaced at the same time? I suspect that capping them might need time for the new implants to settle and allow possible wounds to heel. No problems there. It would be nice if the procedure to remove and replace the implants be done in the one sitting. I don't like the idea of having to gaping holes in my jaw.

It would be nice to know what is possible so I can contact dentist/oral surgeons before any appointment and know they are able to do what is needed.

Zirconium seems to be the recommend alternative however I have seen some posts where they can fracture and break. Is there any issues with what is being used now? Is there any issues known with them becoming toxic? I have also seen variying reports about how Zirconium sseointegrate.  

Are there any other options to Zirconium that I should consider? I see some dentists are using Ceramic implants so I would like to explore the options.

I appreciate any feedback to my questions..

Regards,

Fleetz
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II know the answers too many of these questions as I have been researching and pondering non stop for the past 3 weeks!

First of all Zirconium seems to be the best and they generally do not break. They have been used in Europe for years and now in the US. My new dentist and surgeon have been using them for years with no problem. They are the most biocompatible to the body. The other materials you spoke of I would think are not even a consideration.
Now my concern is I have read that your body can react to anything implanted in the bone. So.....this is what I am doing and it will also answer your next question. The surgeon found out what kind of implants I have and has to order the correct tool to remove them, and then I will need a bone graft. That will settle for 3-4 months. In the meantime I will wear a "flipper" which is a fake tooth. Then they will put in the new implant, then a crown. It will take close to a year. Believe you me; I had several good cries over all of this. Not to mention 2500. Per tooth removal (including bone graft) then 5000.00 per tooth for implant and crown.
I figure that since I will be implant free for 3 months I can see how I feel then the implants will go in for another 4 months and if my body does not like it hopefully it will let me know before the crown goes on. If it were not a front tooth I would just get a bridge or go toothless. I may do that with the back tooth.
Despite all the hassle and money, I can say that good health is worth all the money in the world. I have not been debilitated but I have had health issues that mimic MS and auto immune since having the implants put in. I have done everything under the sun possible to regain health and NOTHING is working. Makes sense now if your body is continuously being poisoned and or fighting off a foreign substance.!  
Well, I should say that all I am doing for my health is keeping me in as good a shape as I am in.
Oh and get opinions before you have it done. I am sure some dentists would remove them and put a new implant in right away and charge less. My surgeon was telling me about this and it can be dangerous.I think the method involved heating up the bone to release the implant and he said that is not good at all!
I hope this information helps.
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I ended up not having the implants removed on Saturday. My husband and mother-in-law went with me to the office so that they could be there to be some extra sets of ears for me and for moral support. I went down my list of concerns and questions. At one point, the dentist answered my question (I can't remember which one) by saying, "I don't know, we're in uncharted waters." So, that was enough for me to be ready to leave and find another surgeon. I don't know what he meant by being in uncharted water, whether he has never removed an implant or whether he had never removed an implant without replacing it with another implant (the latter seems to make more sense, but, I was sufficiently spooked that I have found another surgeon to remove the implants). So, I have an appointment for this Friday to have the implant removed by a maxillosurgeon whom I consulted for a second opinion regarding the implant removal. I will have to pay for the procedure of course, my original surgeon was going to remove them, free of charge and refund my money, after I signed a contract saying that I would seek no further damages (which, of course, I wouldn't).

I feel more at ease with this surgeon. He has a much better bedside manner than the original surgeon. He doesn't see that the implants could be an issue, but, he is willing to remove them for me. And, he doesn't become impatient with my when I ask lots of questions. That is always a good sign.

Fleetz, my heart goes out to you with the numbness issue. It certainly is a disconcerting feeling. Can I ask, what do "non-specific" results mean for an MRI? Does that mean that they could find nothing on the MRI?
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that must have been a tough decision since he would remove them at no charge.
You do need to feel comfortable, that is for sure!!
Best of luck to you.
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Yes, I was sort of disappointed that I was going to have to pass up not having to pay for the procedure. But, my husband and I (and lots of other people) have been praying about this decision. And, this was, in its own way, the answer to our prayer, that we would need to have the surgery done with another surgeon. I see it as God protecting me from a bad choice in who I have do the surgery.
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Thank you so much for adding to this thread. I too have suffered numbness in addition to the feelings of a chronic infection in the sinus above the implant, which is an alloy of titanium, vanadium and aluminum.  The MRI I had revealed unusual linear areas of increased signal which were nonspecific in nature.  There were more in the left cerebral hemisphere, which is also the side of my head where the implant is.  Like terrybrown12 I have issues that mimic some sort of ms/lupus autoimmune type syndrome, but (thank God) without any evidence of disease.  The numbness is more of an annoyance, but the infection in the sinus can be debilitating.


If you look up Toxic Elements Research Foundation--TERF on the internet they report that ANYTHING implanted in the bone triggers an autoimmune response.  There is also a study cited of healthy osseointegrated implants voluntarily removed where they found toxic anaerobic microbes in the tissue surrounding the implants.  It would take alot of convincing for me to put anything else in my body after what I have been through with this one implant and bone graft.  It has been two years of suffering for me to get to the point where I can live without the first and second molars on the upper left side if that's what I have to do--so we are in the same position as far as not having the option of a bridge.  The missing first molar shows when I smile, so I am going to look into getting a partial.  You are listening to someone who, since college has flossed their teeth 2-3 x/day.  I lost one tooth due to an injury and the other due to root resorbtion incurred during orthodontic therapy.  Loosing two teeth before the age of 50 was not something I imagined possible, but stuff happens.  I'm just saying it is a hard pill to swallow in thinking about a partial and my vanity, but I would rather have my health.

You can get a dental series skin patch test from an allergist, which I had.  They tape squares of the various metals to your back and leave them there for 48 hours (fun!) and then record the reaction.  In my case it did not register a reaction to the metals purported to be in my implant.  Then again, there are things you would put on your back but not necessarily want someone drilling into your jaw.  Other than an allergy of the most obvious kind I don't know what use this test was other than if we find the implant to have some gold in it, which I reacted to.

You can also get a lymphocyte transformation test from Melisa or Orthopedic Analysis, which you can look up on the web.  I had a mild sensitivity to titanium on the test, which was dismissed by my surgeon who I later dismissed.  He told me my symptoms were due to the tooth behind the implant (now gone), or I needed a psychiatrist.  He also said he was 100% sure the symptoms had nothing to do with the implant.  After I requested he send my records to an oral surgeon for an evaluation and second opinion he gossiped on the phone with him before my visit, ensuring that the new doc would have a biased view of events.  For the price of 125$ the second Dr. told me I should go to a psychologist and "accept" my condition.  


I am so looking forward to removing this piece of hardware and regaining my health.  It is great there are some physicians and surgeons who know science is being heavily influenced by politics and profit.  



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I have to really rethink this now about the zirconium implant for the front tooth. :( I guess I could get a bridge, but the teeth next two it would have to go them(be crowned i think) This is so depressing.
That wold be two bridges I would need.
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I know what you mean by the "uncharted waters" post.  One of the oral surgeons I consulted with said that in 30 years of practice he had removed "a couple" of osseointegrated implants for "psychological reasons" on the part of the patient.  Though I believe him to be a competent oral surgeon, I would like to find a surgeon who has more experience removing implants--and not the ones he has placed himself.  Either we are a rare bunch of indidviduals or they are not letting on in that they see this more often than they would like to admit.  Good thoughts will be with you this Friday.
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If the diagnosis of Neuralgia Induced Cavitational Osteonecrosis (NICO) is a real possibility, then there would be cavitations in the jaw bone which are pockets of harmful microbes that can form at sites of root canaled and extracted teeth.  What happens to a NICO lesion when it is disturbed by a  metal drill and subsequent metal implant placed on site?  Would the pocket of harmful microbes then combine with the metal ions to create a virtual festering pot of toxins too much for the body to process?  

If you look up the attraction between fungi, yeasts, & bacteria to heavy metals there is a word used which is the biosorption of heavy metals.  It seems different microbes are used to clean heavy metals from the environment because of their attraction to one another.  I am not a scientist, but it makes you wonder about using metal in the mouth and the possibilty of jaw cavitations, doesn't it?



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Hi ; I  have an implant also for almost three month and i have  a hard time with my dentist  regarding to the removal of coarse for the 3rd time now i was reading your story and i would like to make an appointment and talk to this new  surgeon that you found  thank for your attention
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On a vitsit to the allergist today to get some rx refilIs I learned that he sees on average 1 person/month having unexplained pain of a hip or knee implant.  Usually there is some sign of radiolucency by the implant on an x-ray, but otherwise the implant is stable and skin tests are negative for allergy.  Within the parameters of what he knows, he does not know the reason for my symptoms or why all pain around the implant ceases with antimicrobials.  The folks with pain around their body implants are advised it is a possible foreign body reaction.  What they do with that info., I don't know.  It sounds horrible.
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Hello all thanks for the valuable feedback.

lambyoung72 I hope things improve for you. The MRI non specific finding means they could not find any reason in my brain that would be causing my numbness.

I went to my Doctor yesterday and I put to him the Titanium theory having sent this forum link and others on Titanium, he seemed reluctant at first and is still not convinced. We must be a sleepy back water here in Australia as we have 2 companies currently setting up for MELISA lab testing I have been in contact with both of them and registered my interest in having one done.....whoever gets there first will be the one I go with.

The Doctor is happy to go with the test....he wasn't aware of it until I mentioned it. He also recommended to go to an Allergist/Immunologist. March next year is the earliest I can get to see the one up here, I check my home city Adelaide and it is about the same. So for the moment I am placing hope on getting a MELISA test done via my GP Doctor.

He also wants me to go to a Neurologist to rule out any other issue before heading down ripping out the implants. The earliest I can get in is mid January and that is having to fly down to my old home town.

I also spoke to an oral surgeon about replacing the Titanium one with Zirconium and he informed me that they would have to be cut out then bone restored, grafted 6-12 healing then the Zirconium ones fitted. Ouch Interesting he was quite adamant that the implant is not likely to be the cause of the numbness as it appeared after about 5 months the implants were installed.....I see differing situations with fellow forum members here.

I am quite happy to exhaust all avenues before ripping these out. I would be really upset if I ripped them out and found it was something else. So I am going done the Doctors path, test and no doubt more tests, Neurologist and if I can get in to see an Allergist I will do so.

So I am very much work in progress.

Regards,

Fleetz

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If you can find a holistic doctor or dentist that may be of help to you.
I sit here 4 years after my implants still with muscle soreness and numb hands and feet. I have been to every kind of traditional doctor and holistic.
A tradional doctor will be confused by this a holistic doctor can see the coralation.This is my experience anyway.
I will have them removed next month. I feel so blessed that I found two dentists in my town one a surgeon twho is knowledgable and will do the procedure.  
When my story is all done I will post with the results and the dentists names and numbers for resource.
Best to you on your journey to wellness!
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PS: I forgot to mention my numbness did not start until maybe 6-9 months after as well. I did however have a heavy weird feeling on the right side of my body almost right away after getting the implants in. That has not gone away.
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Thanks for the clarification of the MRI. I think it's a very good thing that the MRI's showed nothing that could be causing a problem. I would feel relief that nothing was found. Of course, that still leaves you with symptoms. It makes sense to me that it would be the implants causing the problems. It does seem there is a lot of variance here of when our symptoms began. My vague symptoms started about 2 weeks after the implant, but, I attributed them to the Pepid AC I was on at the time. The really brutal obvious symptoms of extreme anxiety, depression tingling, numbness, etc. started about 5 weeks after the implants were placed.

I appreciate that everyone here is doing their best to recover their health. For me, I have felt very much on my own, apart from God, my husband, family and friends, who support and pray for me. Doctors, dentists, holistic dentists and naturpaths have been of very little help. Honestly, I have heard just as many horror stories about naturopaths as I had heard of traditional doctors.My PCP is in favor of me having the implants removed as the troubles I've had began 5 weeks after I had the implants placed. But, she's not experienced in this sort of thing. Most doctors, of any orientation, aren't experienced with this sort of thing. I went to one naturopath who wanted to give me a homeopathic remedy made from arsenic!! Two holistic dentists that I e-mailed were not immediately of the opinion that the problem was with the implants. So, it's variable what you will hear from any given medical professional. Traditional doctors have their faults and so do naturopaths. MY PCP is sort of a mixture of the two. And, I am thankful I have her as my doctor.

So, I will be having my implants removed on Friday by a maxillosurgeon. I will go in with my list of questions, again, as I did with my original surgeon whom I chose not to have remove the implants. I feel that this time the surgeon on Friday will be more sympathetic and helpful with my questions. I have a lot of people praying for me and I know that I will recover, by God's grace.
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Thanks for the info.  You are right on regarding NICO and metal.  Since I had underlying infections (Lyme, Mycoplasma, etc) the implant provided a breeding ground and subsequently wrecked my health. I felt fine before my implant yet I was walking around with 7 microbial infections.  Thank God the ozone injections in my jaw killed it off, now I am getting rid of the residual toxins with ozone sauna and insufflation.  Getting ready to go raw food also in attempt to starve off mold, which is the most difficult to get rid off.

I am still having a hard time getting my head around the fact that your dentist did not have the proper size implant available so used a massive piece of metal in your petite jaw. Jacka$$!!!!!!!

Prior to ozone injections I had some success using:
-oil of oregano orally 10 drops 3 times a day in pom juice
-freeze dried garlic 2 caps 3xday in water (let stand 1 minute before drink)
-Toxic Fungi-Mold Nosode (homeopathic) 10 drops 3 x day under tongue
-Sinol nasal spray 3xday (avail at rite aid) by far the best nasal spray for me
-put oil of oregano in a oil diffuser and inhaled
-inhaled oil of oregano using q tip, be careful not to burn use tiny amount, did this til I thought to use diffuser
-ozonated olive oil, eye dropperful in each nasal passage
-following the Body Ecology Diet pretty much cured all my symptoms but it is really hard to stick to

each of the things I listed above helped a lot.  The following may or may not have helped, I can't say for sure, but my MD prescribed them:
-Sinusin nasal spray
-Luffeel nasal spray

Seems like you will have a really tough time combatting the infections until you have the implants extracted.  Are you familiar with following an alkaline diet?  The metals make our bodies very acidic and that environment helps microbial infect thrive.  I think you pretty much summarized that in one of your posts.  I think that is why I could mitigate my symptoms following body ecology diet, even prior to extraction.  The microbial invaders did not like the pH change at all and after ~3 days of herxing I felt like a million bucks.

I hope you can find a competent surgeon soon, I know how it feels to have so much info on how to restore your health and limited resources to help get you there.  If it is any consolation to you from where I sit you have turned a horrible situation into something very positive.  You are surely generating lots of good karma by taking so much time researching credible sources, which itself is very time consuming, but then all the extra time it takes to share the info in such an articulate and thorough manner as to impact people's lives in such a positive way.  I've got to think very good things are coming your way.  I, myself have benefitted greatly by the info you have posted so, thank you very much.  My husband and kids thank you too :)
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lambyoung72 I wish you good luck on Friday, I am sure your are on the road to recovery.

Please let us know how you go and how your health progresses post their removal. This will help others including myself understand the condition. I have seen it takes sometime for good health to return......be very interested in how you go.

Are they cutting them out or unscrewing them out???

Again good luck for Friday

Regards,

Fleetz
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An update.

I had to contact the surgery that did my implants to get the alloy composition of the implants for a MELISA test for when the labs get set up here in the next week or so.

I spoke to the surgery practice manager who started grilling me why I wanted the alloy composition. Told her that the Doctor ordered up a MELISA test to see if I have a reaction to Titanium. Her comment was "we know about these issues" she made an appointment  for Monday next week. Normally it takes a couple of month to get in to see him!

So I think I might be getting closer to the source.

Will feedback the outcome from the appointment.

Regards,

Fleetz

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Thanks for your encouragement. I feel that I am on the road to recovery, too. I have a lot of people praying for me throughout the last 4 months. And, I know that the Lord is taking care of me and  my family, though it has been the hardest time of my life.

It's too bad that the manager of the surgery gave you a hard time about the ingredients of the implants. If they have nothing to hide or be concerned about, why not tell you right then and there what the implants are composed of? I'm glad that you're making progress toward feeling better.
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I may not have communicated the manager conversation to well. They were concerned that I was needing that information and felt that they should be the ones to be looking into the issue.(and commented as I said that they know about these issues so I didn't press the composition.) At this stage I don't believe they are holding anything back and if the outcome from the appointment is negative from my perspective I will ask for the alloy composition.

The two LABS here that are setting up for MELISA are still a couple of weeks away and will contact me when they are up and running so I still plan on testing. The oral surgery have suggested that until the appointment next Monday there is no point in doing any tests until the Dr has seen me. As the LABS ready to do the tests yet I will leave everything in position so I can proceed with them if I choose to do so. Fortunately I can call the tune here as the LABS will do independent testing as there is no requirement for a Dr's referral.

I am leaving the Neurologist's appointment in tack too so I have all bases covered. I have to accept for the moment I suspect the Titanium implants and keep an open mind to my numbness, tingling condition. I am throwing everything I can at it especially the Titanium theory as I don't like the thought of toxic-ins building up in my body.

Again good luck for tomorrow ( I assume you are in the USA), it is Friday here in Australia. Hope to hear from you soon about thye success of your operation.

Best wishes,

Fleetz





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If your system has been contaminated by the Titanium implants what exactly is the contaminate and what can it do to you over time?

Is it possible to detox?

Thanks,

Fleetz

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From everything I have read and from what I have experienced I feel I can answer your question, although most doctors I have seen have claimed to have no knowledge of these facts.  A little digging on the internet, a pubmed search for articles published in highly esteemed medical journals will produce plenty of reliable information.  If you comb through the posts on this thread you will find links to websites that will answer your question also.

To summarize, metal of any kind has no place in the human body as it causes heavy metal toxicity (holistic dentists are now using zirconium which is ceramic) and leads to the symptoms you as well as everyone else on this thread are experiencing.  My dr described it as pouring battery acid into your body.  When the body becomes acidic it creates an environment for inflammation and disease, not to mention fertile breeding ground for microbes (bacteria, fungus, yeast, mold) that all of us carry around under normal circumstances.  The ironic thing is that for most of us the nightmare began with an infected tooth and that infection in the jaw was never properly cleared (I have leaned ozone is the only way to kill all microbes) and then adding a metal implant makes the infection thrive and then you end up with NICO (you can google that).  Then the drs want to treat with antibiotics and steroids and you get sicker and sicker.

The other thing about using a titanium implant is that it is never 100% titanium, at least from what we have seen here in the US.  Usually nickel and other alloys are included.  When two metals are next to each other there is an ion exchange, galvanization, which pretty much makes your body into a charged battery.  The geniuses here in the US were actually using gold on the cap where it buts up into the titanium implant until a few years ago.  A horrendous  mistake known by all who have had Chemistry 101.

What can be done about it?  First, of course get the metal out of your head.  In the meantime follow a low acid diet.  Lots of fruits and veggies, water .  Chlorophyll will bind to (chelate) heavy metals in your system and help flush them out.  

You also need to determine if you have microbial infections that need to be cleared as they will not clear on their own after the implant is extracted.  Most people do just based on the fact that a piece of metal was shoved into your jaw and even the cleanest procedure can introduce bacteria into the jaw which then go anaerobic.  Imagine how much more likely it is to start a bacteria feeding frenzy when the implant is replacing an infected tooth without properly being cleaned out.  This proved by far the hardest part of my journey.  The implant perforated my maxillary sinus and even after extraction I had horrible sinus trouble.  The infections kept coming back no matter what I took (antibiotics, steroids, antifungals).  Finally figured out that NICO or for me what I describe as a jaw infection was a smoldering infection preventing me from getting well.  My dr killed it with an ozone injection directly into the jaw.  It can take 1-3 injections for success.  If ozone injection doesn't work sometimes bone debridement is necessary but my dr told me most people are cured with injections.  Keep in mind that  a lot of people have a jaw infection without sinus perforation.

In a post a few days ago to smileynow I listed some things I did to improve my health before I had the ozone injections.

Now I am in the detox stage.  I get ozone saunas and insufflation twice a week and continue a low acid diet.  I finally feel normal again.  Not back 100% yet but I am confident I will get there.

Hope this helps.  I hope you can get your implant out soon.

GOOD LUCK TODAY LAMBY YOUNG, praying for you.  
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One thing I forgot to mention but probably the most important.  The infection left by the implant in the jaw can wreck your health but also may produce mild symptoms, such as fatigue.  People usually don't even realize it is there. But the one thing for sure that it produces is powerful toxins, some of which are very carcinogenic.  Do a google search of root canals and cancer.  Very scary.  Root canals are known infections.  Implants cause infections that are not being recognized.  My dr described the infection as a smoldering infection and if he had not picked it up I would not have known it was there.  When the ozone injection killed the infection I felt worse for about 2 weeks.  That is known as a herxheimer reaction, when you feel worse for a while as the infection die-off produces toxins that need to be flushed out.

I am glad you asked your question, I don't think I had previously posted my entire experience before, just bits and pieces as it changed for me.

Good Luck
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Thank you so much for your kind words and for adding so much to this thread.  When I posted the original question as curedsoon 18 months ago I was hoping at least one person would answer my query with some information.  I so appreciate every person who has posted and added to this thread, as I believe it will be a source of comfort for others troubled by the same symptoms.  At one time it would have been difficult to access so much information regarding our health, but times are changing.  In spite of the titanium implant and 4 gold onlays as well as two old amalgam fillings I feel much better than 18 months ago--probably due to removing the infected root canaled tooth and a constant regimen of antimicrobials.  At the end of the month I have a consultation with a highly regarded oral surgeon at a university.  I am going to request he remove the implant and bovine grafting material which looks like a white blob at the apex of the implant on film.  It looks to me like the protocol for removing NICO lesions is different from the standard extraction in that vasoconstrictors would not be used and all the diseased bone would need to be debrided.  I so wish there were oral surgeons who would get onboard with the ozone, laser and acknowledging NICO.  It is so amazing that I have been to so many practitioners who do not acknowledge this condition or metal sensitivity.  Last week a biological dentist told me that it would be more important to find a skilled oral surgeon for a complex surgery possibly involving the sinus than to find a practitioner who is versed in ozone, laser, and cavitation treatment.  Now, many months later I realize that the one dentist who is also a doctor of osteopathy (now retired) was right.  I didn't want to believe that I needed to remove the root canaled tooth (now gone), implant, and surrounding bone.  I thought it was too extreme, and not one other dentist agreed with his opinion.  Now, after several thousand more spent on ridding myself of these symptoms I see he was right.  So much suffering could be elimintated if dental science were based on reality versus politics and profit.  

I have wondered too, if people like Bertin76 who removed their implants would further improve by addressing the possible cavitation issue.  Before all of this I had no idea about the connection between root canaled teeth and breast cancer.  How ever can the ADA suppress this information and regard themselves as an organization interested in the public health?  Then again, what are all the endodontists going to do for a living?  And you have some people, by miracle of genetics and whose bodies successfully wall off the toxins are able to survive into their 80's with root canaled teeth. Of course the "science" will be based on the few.  How amazing that more dentists do not notice a disparity between what they are told is true by virtue of industry-sponsored "studies", and what they see in their day-to-day practice of medicine.

Regarding the oil of oregano mist or drops--isn't is a danger to inhale oil droplets?  The md/homeopathic dr. gave me some EDTA to add to the sinus lavage.  How is your sinus now after removal of the implant?  I feel really sick without antifungals and antibiotics.  That is great you are getting such great results from the ozone.  Did you ever have an exam with a Cavitat?  

Thanks for all the great support and information!


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Hi Everyone:

So far we have 26 screen identities who have contributed to this thread, and this takes into account my former name of curedsoon and Estrings' one post as Gericol.  Out of the 26 there are 22 reporting specific symptoms.  Of the 22 one reported developing Yellow Nail Syndrome from Titanium exposure and another was seeking treatment for an environmental illness.  Of the remaining 20 there are 13 who reported symptoms of burning, tingling or numbness in the feet.  It looks like 65% of posters are experiencing foot symptoms, unless some of the posters neglected to mention it or I missed it.  Other prevalent symptoms appear to be joint pain, dizziness or brain fog, and generalized weakness. Sinusitis is another issue affecting the contributors.  When I have time I will tally those numbers.  

You have to ask yourself if this is the reason we have heard the Titanium implants are no longer being used in Europe.  If this is true, why is the FDA not warning the public of the potential side effects of these implants?  How many more people need to suffer before the FDA and ADA acknowledge what is happening?  Does there need to be a class-action suit on behalf of the people who have suffered the side-effects of these implants?  


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Hi Lambyoung, and everyone else out there.

How did the removal go? It was a smart move on your part.
If a dentist says unchartered waters and "I never did this before",
find another doctor/dentist that has done it.

It is a very easy procedure for someone that has done many of them.

What state do you live in?

Maxofacial surgeon was the way to go, that is who did mine and others,
and no one has had any complication so far.

My surgeon recommended no bone grafting and no new post insertion at this time.  Since I was reacting to "something"  he did not want to add anything else foreign into my body.  

To those out there that are still having some problems after removal, it does take time for your body to get back to normal...ha,ha  remember
what that is??!!!!  Some people have used a detox program.  If you feel you
need that please post on this forum and others will respond.  Personally,
I have not used anything to detox after my implant was removed.

Again, for someone who has experience taking these out....IT IS NO BIG DEAL.  Other then the nightmares and worry you have before hand, worrying if they are going to have to remove parts of your jaw :-)  It is
a very easy and basically painless procedure.  Just find the right person who knows what they are doing.  

Please let us know how you are doing.

All the best of health to everyone out there.

Serbin
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Hi Smiley,

Good work on the information on all the people who have suffered and logged into the site.  

I have also gotten calls from many people now across the united states.
Common thread.......everyone's problems started within 2 to 3 weeks at
the most, after implants were put in.

Everyone of these people have told their dentists.  Everyone was told.  Can't be the imlant....never heard of it.

Sore joints, dizziness, tiredness seems to be a very common connections with everyone.   People that had more then one and the longer they are in especially over one year....the problems seem to be a lot worse.

Then there are the rashes, face pain, headaches, sinus problems that people complain of.  Everyone was very active and seem to be people who muddle through things even if they didn't feel great, but this seems to really knock people down and it is hard to get through day to day activities.

Okay Smiley, we go back a long way and it seems like we are helping more and more people because of this site.  I get phone calls from mothers and patients who are just trying to get information.   Can so many people be wrong??????? duhhhhhhhh|!!!!!!!!

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I will be having my implants removed within a month and I have pretty much decided that I will not put in a zirconium implant for the reasons you said above. As far as the bone graft i believe my surgeon has it in mind to do that as he does not want to leave a hole in the bone. What did your surgeon have to say about that?
Just tryin to stay positive and be as informed as possible...
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Lambyoung,

I am here now, Sunday afternoon all day.  If you do not call me today, call anytime during the week.  If I am not here, just be sure and leave your number and I will call you back as soon as I get in.
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just read your oct post---- see below. I SO NEEDED TO READ THIS TODAY!

After having them removed, now I am getting calls from all those people
saying they once again feel human. I know all my old buddies on this site have been following things right along with me.....and this is great news.

Hey Smileynow, heard from Carol and she feels terrific.  Able to go back to her job 100%.  Travels, and works out everyday at the gym, once again.

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hmmm, the only danger I was aware of regarding inhaling oil of oregano drops was that it could burn the lining of nasal passages which did not happen to me.  I got pretty brave there for a while and sniffed undiluted oil from a q tip with no problem but I got there gradually.  Diluted OOO with some almond oil and worked my way up to full strength.  

Not sure if it is harmful for some other reason but my MD did recommend that I do it if I could tolerate it.  The sinusol nasal spray actually burned more than OOO but only momentarily.    

Once I started using ozonated olive oil in my sinuses there was no need for anything else.  Ozone kills EVERYTHING.

I have not had a cavitat exam yet.  My dr here in jersey tests me using bioenergetic testing.  I finished all my prelim tests and am meeting with 2 dentists in DC on Tues.  I believe they have a cavitat machine so maybe i will have one done then, guess it is a good idea to push for it, thanks for mentioning it.  

Thanks for tallying all of the symptoms people are having.  Don't know if I had previously mentioned that I have some joint pain, it is pretty low on the list of symptoms for me though.  When I think of all of the symptoms I was experiencing over the past 5 years it is hard to believe that I was so unwell and miserable.  I know I am close to the end.  The fatigue is the only thing persisting at this point and it is getting better.  I agree about a class action suit.  What these so-called drs are doing is criminal.
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Hi, just wanted to respond to your question to Serbin regarding bone graft.  Serbin and I used the same surgeon (thanks Mary Ann) and he said that a hole in the bone is not necessarily a problem.  Bone is living tissue and will regenerate.  The problem would be if you wanted to have another implant placed there may not be enough bone there to hold it.  

I actually was left with a hole in my sinus after extraction but that healed up fine with no graft.

Good luck with whatever you decide
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I am so thankful for the info I found on this thread, it is coming up on a year ago.  I had concluded that my implant was making me ill on my own and then I found this thread and it has been like little angels guiding every step I have made towards restored health.  I had no idea of all the things that went along with this illness and if it wasn't for this thread I am sure I would still be suffering.  Thanks so much for taking the time to educate people, feel like you guys deserve a spot on the Oprah show, or maybe Dr Oz :)
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Today had my appointment with the Maxillofacial Surgeon who put the implants in. He stated in over 20 years he has implanted around 10,000 in that time and he has only removed two patients implants and claimed both of those was for psychological reasons???

I had one of those rotating xrays before the appointment and the implants were in his words "perfect". He was having none of the Titanium allergy, reaction issue!! Even when I mention the forum with real live experience and a good amount of information on the web.  

He claimed that given my implants were in around 5 months before these symptoms appeared my condition along with the type of symptons it must be neurological. He was adamant  the symptoms were not related.

I have a Neurologist appointment in mid January which the Maxillofacial Surgeon also recommended as the way forward.

I have informed him that I am currently down for a MELISA test and required the composition of the alloys, he didn't know the composition and has given me a contact email.

He stated that pretty much he would not remove the implants unless the Neurologist requests it. I don't want the implants out unless I am 100% sure they are the cause of the problem.......so it is off to the Neurologist.

I will report back with the MELISA results for your feedback. Do you get a pathologist's report typically with the results?

So the mystery continues.

Regards,

Fleetz

    
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I got an answer back on the implant composition firstly they are a Straumann brand grade 4 which is commercially pure (CP)

Chemical Composition of CP Titanium Grade 4
·         Carbon 0.080 max
·         Nitrogen 0.050 max
·         Oxygen 0.40 max
·         Iron 0.50 max
·         Hydrogen 0.015 max
·         Other, 0.3 max per AMS 4921 G or 0.40 max per ASTM B 348-99
·         Titanium balance

So no alloys which evidently can make these snap however it seems very rare. It appears all I have to get the MELISA test done for is Titanium.

Regards,

Fleetz

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Hi Fleetz,
If it makes you feel any better my surgeon said basically the same thing.
When I spoke to his receptionist about my situation, she mocked a patient that had them out because " they did not agree with her body."
The new dentist I have has LOTS to say about how these implants are posion to the body for several reasons.
He told me the story of one of his patients whose husband had his two front teeth knocked out and got implants. His wife said he was lethargic and depressed for two years. Then he had another accident at work and they implants were knocked out! (crazy I know!)
Well the wife said he did not have the implants put back in and with in a short time her husband was no longer lethargic and depressed and back to his old self.
It is good you are going to see a neurologist. I spent the past 4 years years seeing every possible doctor and no one can find anything.
I guess I it's all  in my head. :) .Literally that is!!
By the way I had a holistic dentist that warned me not to use titatium implants and I went with them because my other typical dentist was so positive about how good they would be. What a mistake. I have however learned everything you can learn about staying well these past few years. Diet, supplements, life style change. All the things I do are what is keeping me going as well as I am. Still, this is no way to live,
~Terry
PS I emailed with a DR at the mellisa place in NJ and she said you can still have a sensitivity to titatium with out having an allergy. Just good info to keep in mind.
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Please call me back this afternoon.  You left a number but cannot hear two of the numbers.  Please go slow if you leave it again.  
Look forward to your call.  

To all my old friends out there.....So glad to hear that you are doing well.
Thanks for posting.  That is so rewarding to hear life is improving for NJ, don't you just love that Dr. Carrasco!!!!  He does such a perfect job of removing the implants.  God Bless those hands.

Hope we get word of more and more good surgeons out there and we can have contacts for people in many states to go to.  Please keep the thread going with all good news, so we can help others who are so frustrated and looking for info.

Have a good day,
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Well well well.  I do believe I heard the same story thousands of miles away here in the Western U.S..  Yes.  When the buckaroo who installed my implant said it was either the tooth behind the or that I was in need of psychiatric help, I went to another oral surgeon.  In 30 years he had removed "a couple" of osseointegrated implants for "psychological" reasons.  In addition I remember some young girl rolling her eyes as a walked past her desk--oh yeah, it is that crazy woman complaining about her implant again.  I too, was referred to a neurologist because of course I had a neurological issue such as tic deleroux, trigeminal neuralgia, or m.s..  Well, I have been to 3 neurologists for neurological exams, which are completely normal.  I have been to a neuro-opthamologist to invesitgate the eye irritation which coincides with not using antimicrobials to keep the infection down, and  he says there is absoloutly no evidence of pathology in the eye.  Yay!  The only neurologist I had issue with was the one who wanted an m.r.i. with contrast..  The gadolinium is a metal and I am not having it in my body.  

I too, developed irritation around the implant about 6 months after the implant was placed.  This is because of a condition called delayed hypersensitivity and also because the sinus perforation and anatomic abnormality in the sinus created by the bone graft and implant has acted as a nidus for microbes.  This is one reason I improve somewhat with the antimicrobials, but not completely.  This is my own conclustion after many months of suffering and being helped by an m.d. who theorized there was a fungal colonization above the implant in the sinus.  


Of course you do not want to rip out some perfectly good implants when there is another problem, so it would be prudent to do the investigation.  I personally would not let them go too far with introducing more potentially harmful substances in your body or other invasive procedures.  The other issue is of radiation.....make sure they cover your thyroid when they are taking x-rays or doing the ct scan.  This is something I have learned after having 4 ct scans in the last two years.  

This is unbelievable.  There is plenty of evidence regarding metal sensitivity as has been cited through this entire thread.  This information is available to them or anyone who is interested.  That the governing bodies of dentistry are choosing to ignore this and the people whose lives are affected is insane.  You are in a position where you will need to think for yourself, because the doctor who installed your implant has forgotton a basic precept of science--an inquiring mind.  His business dictates it is better to deny any such possibilty, so there you have it.






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just a quick note before I head to dentists in DC.  I had the implant for 2 years before I realized I was ill.  I had some minor symptoms during the first year and a half that I didn't pay attention to.  Just because you don't have symptoms immediately doesn't mean it is not making you sick.  Some peoples immune system's do a better job of fighting it off.
Second, my implant looked fine on xrays, including panoramic, looked good on ct scans and mri.  Only when the surgeon took the implant out did he see signs that my body was rejecting it, which was pink granulated soft tissue at the top of the implant instead of bone.  That does not show up in xrays etc.  Infection does not show up either.

i just found out about an organization for biological dentists.  you can go to the website to see if there is one in your area.  It is called the International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology.  Go to IAOMT.org

here is a blurb from website
The Vanguard of Science -
Based Biological Dentistry
The IAOMT is a network of dental, medical and research professionals who seek to raise the standards of scientific biocompatibility in the dental practice with information from the latest interdisciplinary research.  
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I have to chime in again. :)
I am so grateful for this information here, It has really helped me to get through this past 6 weeks as i have made the discovery  that it is in fact the implants that have been my issue and making the very emotional and tough decision to remove them. I met again with my dentist last night and shared with him my concerns about a zirconium implant. He totally iuderstood and said he can make a maryland type non metal bridge for my front tooth and a bridge for the back tooth.
I also asked if we could skip a bone graft which was planed  and he said it would not be a problem. Again understanding that my body for some reason has issues, sensitivities with  things being inserted into the bone.
I wil have the back one removed by the oral surgeon on Dec 3 and the front one removed on Dec 30. I am feeling confident with both dentis and my decision so  this is good.
Smileynow good advice about not having the dye with the MRI. I did not know better and had it done. MY neck hurt for 7 months straight after my MRI and my symptoms got worse. Covering the thyroid would have been good to know too. Now I am on thyroid med for the first time ever.
I will let you all know how the removal goes on the 3rd and i am expecting the best!
Thanks for listening. My good thoughts and prayers go out to all of you here.
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Hello Serbin,
I actually haven't called you, at all, or left any messages. But I appreciate you being available if I had called. You are very caring to help people out in this way.

I had the implants out on Friday. Overall, the procedure went fairly well. The surgeon had to use a mallet to tap on the implants to get them to loosen up enough for them to be screwed out. That was a bit unnerving.  Because the implants were in my slightly up into my sinuses (I had a sinus bump when they were placed), the sinus membrane did stick to the implants on the way out. So, I have been put on amoxicillin for 10 days. My surgeon told me this was a possibility when I first consulted him. He assured me that the membrane heals in about 2 weeks and that the sinus tissue will heal completely. So, I was disappointed that the sinus membrane stuck, but, I knew it was a possibility and there was no way to avoid it if I wanted the implants out.

The pain is decreasing every day. I had to keep gauze in my mouth for the first day. But, the bleeding stopped fairly quickly (in about 24 hours). The swelling is decreasing. The pain I had in my temple prior to the removal (it had started about a week before the removal) is improving and decreasing. So, I know I have done the right thing, now, my body just needs to heal itself and recover.
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I went to DC for my cavitation assessment with a second dentist and he had another dentist/friend in from Cali observing him.  I was so excited to meet her as she said she treats a lot of what you and I are experiencing.  She is in Santa Barbara, not exactly next door for you but better than AZ.  Here is her info:  Cynthia C Copeland  805-729-5480,  wholehealthdds.com

They are not using the cavitat machine anymore.  Too many false positives. Using cone beam ct scan and bio energetic testing now.  The consensus is that my remaining issue is mold in my sinus, which is very difficult to get rid of.  My dr here did another ozone injection into my jaw on monday and yesterday the dr in dc was able to inject ozone into my tmj joints in order to get the ozone to the back of my sinus where the mold was able to evade the therapies I have been doing.  I also had a treatment with ozone administered with a nasal cannula.  The ozone is bubbled through olive oil and a lot easier to tolerate that way.  Hoping this works.  I am also eating raw to try to starve the mold.  We'll see.

Hope you can check out Dr Copeland, she is one of the good ones.
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Happy Thanksgiving and thank you for the name of the Dr. in Santa Barbara.  It is exciting she has training in oral medicine & toxicology as well as the Huggins Protocol.  I have read about Dr. Huggins, and been thinking a practitioner versed in this method would be beneficial. It would be great is if she works with an oral surgeon experienced in removing osseointegrated implants.  Next week I have an appt. with an oral surgeon out of state.  I am told the surgeon is backed up and will not be able to do the removal until 2012.  Maybe when he sees the problem he will know what to do about the mountain (and subsequent valleys) created in the sinus by the large implant, so I hope the appointment will be worth the drive.  Not knowing if he will take my case and not knowing if he has repaired sinuses with this type of issue is making me hesitate.  I would rather he look at the CT scan long distance, tell me his experience, and make a plan before having me drive all the way to CA..  I bet if I spoke with your Santa Barbara Dr. she would immediately aggee with the necessary removal of the metal!  

I have been thinking about mold for a long time as a possible contributor to my predicament, as recently I discarded a beautiful (looks aren't everything!) Maytag Neptune washer with a digusting mold between the steel drum & tub that I was unable to eradicate.  There also is a black mold that grows out of the sink drain in the utility room, also.  When I use antibiotics, as I have over the years for bladder issues, there is a black or grey mucus that is apparent when using the sinus irrigation.  It only goes away when using the antifungals.  Then, last week the m.d./homeopath did boienergetic testing & finds I react to Stachybotrus, a toxic mold which is black.  So, did I come home from the implant surgery with an injury to the sinus which allowed the mold to settle there?  I guess it makes sense if mold can grow in your washer, sink drains, shower, & building materials, it can grow in your sinus?  Yuck!  If the mold were the only problem, though, the entire family would be sick, which is not the case.

So, by using ozonated olive oil and getting ozone injections to the jaw you will be able to eradicate the mold?  How did they find it?  Can they see it on your CT scan?

Thanks for the information on the Cavitat.  I did not know that it was not being used so much anymore.  Most of all thanks for the name of the Dr. in Santa Barbara-maybe she will know where I can get this implant out if things don't pan out next week.
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You must feel relieved the procedure is over!  Let's pray the healing will begin.  If you are happy with your surgeon, I might like to know where he is located.  Next week I am consulting with a surgeon in Northern CA.  Hopefully a resolution wll come sooner rather than later for me.  
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It sounds like you have a good surgeon in that you won't have to take a chance on having issue with the bone graft material.  

You and I don't seem to be the only ones for whom the implants provoked thyroid troubles.  I remember Bertin76 also complained about thyroid pain and that is one of the first symptoms I had after the implant procedure, only I didn't make the connection.  Now, I am taking thyroid meds as well, but I don't think enough.  Never in my life have I had to put aside physical activity as in these last two years. Did you get testing for anti-thyroid antibodies?  One Dr. said I now have Hashimotos.  I am sure this implant stirred up all this trouble and wonder how many others now have thyroid issues due to implants.  
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I have a doctor that does not use synthroid but gave me Amour Thyroid and it did not work for me due to reverse TR (RT3) which I learned can happen when your body is in distress. He put me on cytomel and wow, did it do the trick. I have not been fatigued since taking it.  This is a miracle for me really. If you want to learn more visit the site stop the thyroid madness. They have so much good information.
Hopefully I can get my thyroid and everything else back in order soon.
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by the way, I seem to have a boatload of doctors now. prior to implants i had no doctors. (except monthly cleanings at the dentist and the very rare visit to the typical primary care doctor)
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You are correct when you say the implant changed the landscape in your sinus to one that harbors microbes, mold included.  My docs also put me on antibiotics and steroids which feed the mold (as well as yeast and fungus) and then it was really able to take hold.  I had all three in the sinus and the mold is the one that is by FAR the hardest to eradicate.  As my Dr puts it "these things were designed to put us in the ground".  I don't need to worry about that anymore but left untreated that is what happens.

I was exposed to stachy mold (the black one you refer to) in my home for quite a few years.  We had a slow leak in the master shower and there was mold in the wall for years that we didn't know about.  The ironic thing is that we bought a brand new home to avoid issues with mold as my 2 children were sick from mold in the apt we were in when they were babies.  The implant and the mold exposure created the perfect storm for me to get sick with mold in my sinus.  

Mold can grow in other parts of your body as well but when the sinus has been perffed by a metal implant it seems that it is extremely difficult to clear.  The ozone will kill anything it comes into contact with, the trick is the contact part.  I suspected mold in my sinus when I first discovered the slow leak none of my drs would even talk to me about it.  Very few drs know anything about it.  It doesn't show up on CT scans. I think there is some kind of blood test and some eye test but you need to work with a mold specialist.  The one that I found, Shoemaker, the grandfather of mold, sees patients but from my understanding he is only interested in research. Allegedly, he knows how to cure you but he will withhold the remedy so he can use you as a guinea pig to test whatever new drug he wants to test, one I wonder if he has a financial interest in, allegedly. I wanted to get a plate and culture of what was growing in my sinus to see exactly what was growing.  My ENT said the only way to do that was surgery in the OR but I do not believe that is the case. He prob meant that was the only way he was willing to do it.  

I have had it diagnosed by two different drs (one MD and one DDS) using bioenergetic testing.  I am hoping that the ozone injections work.  I am also taking oil of oregano and a homeopathic nosode but am leaning towards taking drastic measures with my diet, which I have started, to try to starve the mold.  In the past when I follow the body ecology diet I feel back to normal, it is amazing.  I am also taking welchol ( a cholesterol lowering med) which binds to the toxins from the mold and flushes them out.

You may want to call a reputable mold testing company to see if you have spores in the air of your home.  It is recommended that you have an independent company do the testing, as the remediation company will have a conflict of interest when testing.  I was very fortunate to find a very reputable remediation company who also did the testing, but I understand the conflict of interest issue.

As far as you being the only one ill at home I hate to say it but out of the four of us here at home, I was the only one to get sick.  The perffed sinus is the most obvious issue.  The other thing is that it is not the mold that makes you ill, it is the aflatoxins it gives off once in your body.  So people who have healthy immune systems can be exposed to toxic mold and not get sick at all.  That is a fact that I am very grateful for, my family has been spared this nightmare.

I am praying that you do not have to add mold sickness to your list but if you do test positive at home you should call me to talk about remediation.  I had to go through it twice as we made some mistakes the first time and recontaminated.  
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Have you come across a nasal wash that treats mold?  There is a MD in AZ, Gray I believe, that presented a research paper at the aspergilium conference recently.  He cured a woman who was being treated for cancer of the sinus.  He found it was in fact a mold infection and used some sort of nasal wash I believe, maybe containing bentonite.  I will try to go see him if i don't have success with current protocol.
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**correction**

I meant mycotoxin instead of aflatoxin in my previous post.
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i was able to answer my question re: nasal wash by rereading your posts.  i am going to look into iv ozone and UV treatments also.

rereading your posts, it is amazing how similar our cases are.  my symptoms are MUCH better than when I started posting here. I kind of forgot how ill I was.  My sinus trouble has resolved I would say 90% my real issue now is fatigue but even that has improved significantly.

One thing that I did not mention previously that has helped me immensely is a KMT machine.  I don't know what it stands for but it is a small device like a rife machine that has electrodes that you put on certain points of your body.  It delivers a micro current that gets at microbes that are burrowed in your body and makes them vulnerable to the remedy you take to eliminate them.  This is great for us as the landscape in our sinuses allows microbes to hide.  It also is great for lyme as the spirochete burrows and the micro current has an action similar to shaking a tree.  It also teaches the immune system to deal with invaders.  This seems to be the one treatment that has helped people beat chronic lyme, me included.  

I hope you find someone soon to help you get that implant out.

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Thank you for all of the information on mold.  I wonder if cleaning the nasty sink drain with a brush put lots of spores in the air.  There is a mold testing lab in town where I took a sample from our washer--it had a very high levels of cladosporidium & bacteria, even though I keep a clean house.  It is amazing Maytag put out such poorly designed machines.  I had never heard or thought of mold growing on human tissue before, though.  

If I mention mold to the oral surgeon next week he will think I've been reading too much science fiction.  The evidence of black mucus (I took a picture of it) and pain ontop of the implant that disappears with antifungal medication, as well as the bioenergetic testing for stachybotrus might be viewed as evidence of delusional thinking and a perchant for new age hocus pocus, so I don't know if I'll bother.  Maybe if he can successfully remove the large screw from my jaw and repair my sinus I will be most pleased with him.  Then, I can consult with the dentist in Santa Barbara and my M.D.s here about eradicating the harmful microbes.  

Now, the Dr. who would purposely withhold a known cure on the basis of a financial incentive to be achieved--he is a smaller example of what is wrong with healthcare.  This goes on in a bigger way more than we know.  Think about the big business of treating Cancer, and ask yourself if there really is a "War on Cancer."  When I was getting the i.v. treatments with ozone & ultraviolet blood irradiation I had time to talk to a man with pancreatic cancer.  He had traveled to N.Y. & Texas to get some of the latest treatments for his type of cancer.  He said of the 30 people he started with in N.Y.(it was a research group) that he is the only one left.  He said he had done both chemo & radiation and would not recommend them to anybody.  He was in getting an infusion of Vit.C and alpha lipoic acid, I think.  Interesting.  I don't mean to be so down on it all, because some things have gotten better for sure.  It would certainly be better to break an arm now than 100 years ago, but you wonder about the incentives when you go through the kind of trouble that we have had with these implants, which are a very lucrative procedure for dentists, and the negative consequences seem to be unknown or downplayed.  We were not informed of the negative effect on the immune system and the sinus or the kinds of materials available.

Anyway, I so appreciate all of the information and giving me your number.  I need to focus on getting better, and taking the next step.




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You are right, it would be pointless to mention mold to anyone who doesn't know how to treat it, which includes most physicians.  There seem to be few ENTs who will even acknowledge the study done by the Mayo Clinic which shows that chronic sinusitis is caused by fungus published more than 10 years ago.  Even when they do acknowledge the study the drs I have seen have no protocol to treat it.

Good news on my end.  I have had the best week in 5 years.  Since I had the last round of ozone injections last week I have really turned a corner.  My MD still detects mold in my sinus but I am feeling a lot better.  I took hot yoga classes every day, rode my bike for 20 miles one day and felt like I could have done 20 more, started running.......still can't run but I did run/walk intervals.    For the last 2-4 years just a walk to the mailbox would require rest.   Prior to this illness I trained triathlons.  70 miles on the bike, 10 mile runs, 2 hour master swim  classes were all routine.  I can't believe I am going to get my life back!  

I hope this gives you hope.  Our cases are so similar, it would seem that all you are going through is completely reversible.  

Oh, and one last thing.  I started wearing an appliance for apnea, really to align my jaw since I don't have apnea, yet, but was on my way.  It's similar to a retainer.  I have been wearing it to bed for about a week so I thought that maybe it was helping me a little.  Well, my dr tested me with it on and he couldn't believe what a huge difference it made for me.  Opening everything up so I get more oxygen to the brain, opening sinuses.  He encouraged me to wear it during the day also. So I just wanted to pass that along.  I had know idea something like that could be so important.  The dr in DC told me he thought the appliance would make a huge difference to improve my health.  Looks like he was right!

Good luck with your upcoming appointment!
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First Post is being removed tomorrow!
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I mean implant. :) The second one comes out on the 16th.
Scary--- but I am glad I am doing it.
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Hi to everyone,

I think we have a good thing going here.  Lots of helpful information being
accumulated.  We do need a good dr. for removal out on the west coast,
So please forward the name and phone number, address of some successful removals, so I can have it to refer people to who may call for help and please post on thread.  

In reference to the Melissa test......I recommend you not waste your money!!  I had it done.  Spent a lot of money...came back that I was only slightly allergic to titanium.  Also had titanium taped to my body.  No reaction....But I cannot take meds with titanium dioxide in them...causes breathing problem.  and the titanium in implant certain caused its havic with me, as it has with all of you.

So if you have have started having feelings of tiredness, sore joints and ringing in ears, etc.  weeks after implants...you do not need the test and waste a lot of money.  That is from my experience.

Sorry to hear the one case where they had to tap on the implant and had it involved with the sinuses.  That is the first one that we have heard of.  All the rest so far, have come out fairly simple and painless.

Yes, it does take a while for the bleeding to stop.  I think that is the hardest
part..keeping that gauze up against the gum in your mouth til it clots.  
If that is the worse, then I would say the removal is a "piece of cake" :-)

I think all of you will agree that the peace of mind that you immediately get after the removal is just the best feeling in the world.  As one person recently mentioned...the anguish of deciding to keep or take out the implants is just exhausting.

I hope this thread serves as a terrific holiday present to all our new
people out there seeking help about their implant related illnesses and it helps in making their removal decision a lot easier.

Happy holidays to all my implant removal friends out there with all your plans for the holiday.  
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Last week I went to see the head of oral surgery at the University of California San Francisco.  I read on an internet medical advice column of someone being advised to go there as they were in need of a sinus repair due to dental complications.  According to this oral surgeon (advice columnist), Dr. P is reputed to have excellent skills for someone in need of this type of surgery.  I also figured this surgeon would give an honest opinion and be familiar with a variety of complex cases.

Sitting next to me in the waiting room was a woman with 5 implants in her lower jaw that were all placed incorrectly and resulted in facial numbness and pain.  Like me, she had gone to a practitioner who places many implants.  She said she felt like she had "nails" in the head.  I figured I was in the right place.

The good news is that he says he removes about 3-4 implants/week.  For me he said it will be hard to avoid being in the sinus when the implant is removed, so he will be addressing debris that may have accumulated in the sinus during the last two years of inflammation due to the implant.  He also corroborated with another dentist in that it was "a long shot" to even get an implant placed in the amount of bone and space that was available.  He wasn't big on explaining things or going into detail, which is something I would have liked.  I asked him, "So, is this going to fix the abnormality/problem in the sinus?"  I don't know if he answered it or even could.  He also said he could do it with a local anesthetic which for me lessens the chance of reactions to drugs or a hospital stay.

After first introducing himself he wasted no time in asking what both my husband and I do for a living?  Then, he said it was so that he could use the appropriate vocabulary in our presence.  As if I couldn't ask for clarification??  I almost felt like didn't like me, or maybe he just has a strange bedside manner.  I don't know.  You could get a perfectly charming surgeon who has the skills of a logger.  That would be worse.

I wasn't able to schedule at the time because he had to put the information into the system.  Any advice regarding oral surgeons on the West Coast would be welcome at this time.



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How are you feeling?
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Thanks for asking.
Well....the tool he ordered to remove it was the wrong size! 1/2 way through he had to stop.
So, they are sending the correct size and I will have it removed on the 15th and then the other one on the 16th.
Lots of emotional drain yesterday.
The good news is he feels very confident it will come out with ease and from the x rays he says he has enough room from the sinus so that should not be a problem.
The wait continues...
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weird bedside manner of that surgeon you met with!
But if he knows what he is doing I guess that is what matters most, and you don't have alot of choices.
The surgeon that put my implants in was one of the best so I am told. His bedside manner was really laking, but like you said I thought better someone that knows what they are doing then someone with a great personality!

When all is said and done with me I will be sharing the names and contact information of my dentist and oral surgeon. I do have faith that it will all work out in the end.
I send good thoughts and prayers your way.
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Hi terrybrown12 & pardon for asking again, but how long have you had your implants?  The most common way I have heard for removal is a trephine burr--a drill that circles around the implant and cores a hole larger than the implant.  That is interesting if the implant can be removed by "unscrewing" it from the surrounding bone.  In that way maybe it is better to go to the practitioner who installed it.  I am just wondering how it works if the bone has grown around it.  

Today I got the treatment plan in the mail from the surgeon who will remove the implant and clean the whole area out via a Caldwell-Luc type procedure which would take 2 hours and could be done in early January.  The other alternative he mentions is to learn to live with what I have & get on with life.  So I guess taking all the meds I do and feeling crappy shouldn't be a problem.  So either I am being a big baby or he will cut into my sinus?  If you read about the procedure, it is not without risk.  I am so out of energy with these people I can't even be angry, but in a humorous way imagine taking the big screw (you know it will look nasty) out of my head and giving them all a good poke.
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I have had them for 3 and 4 years. Good thing is the surgeon that put them in is right down the street so my new surgeon called him an was able to find out the exact tool needed to screw  it out. I would never go to him to have them removed. He does not get it al all as to why I am having them taken out. I would not subject myself to that anxiety. I now have a team of dentist that lean more to the holistic side and believe that metals in the mouth can be relaced  with biocompatible materials. My dental issues go a bit deeper than just removing the implants so it is important to me to have dentist that don't look at me like I am crazy when I share my beliefs and actually know that they share the same beliefs too!

My heart goes out to you...
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Wow! 2 hours!  The procedure does sound like exactly what you need though.  I have been watching a few sinus surgeries on youtube, there is a dr in Scotland who likes to post his work.  Will this type of procedure allow the dr to get deep into the sinus?  Going through the mouth makes you wonder but they seem to be able to do some incredible things these day.  Just asking as my infection is deep in my sinus and we have not had much success getting to it.  Just started a new med last week but if it doesn't work  I am starting to think about sinus surgery myself.  May try to get out to see the dr in Arizona though before I make any decisions.

If you decide to do the surgery and it works it would be a great start to the New Year!  Keep us posted.
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Happy Holidays to you as well!

Wishing everyone good health in 2012.
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Thank you so much for your post, as I have been second-guessing on whether it is necessary to violate the sinus a second time.  From what I understand entering and scraping the lining of the sinus permanently changes the landscape of the sinus and damages the cilia, which function to continually sweep debris out of the sinus.  Unfortunately you and I both had this inadvertently done when we had our implants placed.  Weren't we thinking that removing the implant & grafting material would in itself remove the irritant?  You have had that done & used antimicrobials as well, but still have a trouble with the mold/fungus in the sinus?  Have you used the Amphotericin B Nasal wash after irrigations?  That really has helped me, but not in a way that eliminates the problem permanently.  Another thing you have done is eliminate toxic mold from your environment.  Hmmmmm.  One of the M.D.s who helped me tried neural therapy, but I wasn't really sold on it enough to have more sessions.  I didn't see how it would help with the source of inflammation still there.  That is discouraging you still are having issues with your sinus after all you have been through!

The reason for second guessing probably had something to do with using Amphotericin B nasal wash & Nizoral right now, so at least I can function.  Sometimes I actually feel no pain or symptoms around the implant, but it is only when using anti-fungals.  Then, I like having a tooth there......if not for the other odd symptoms in the feet and hands. It would be nice if that would go away.  

Meanwhile I don't know if I should have this surgeon, who is the chair of an oral surgery dept.--(you know he can't be a loser) do it, or search for someone who is more alternative because it seems the standard methods of practice are what got me into this predicament.  

Then, Serbin has better health that before her implant was removed and I think some of the others--cascpa431?  It is good to know just removing the foreign body/metal seems to improve some people, including you?

Happy Holidays.:)
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Today is the day!   Ran (jogged) 7.5 miles in 90 minutes on the treadmill!!!!!  Had to stop about every half mile to keep my heart rate under 160 but I do believe I am getting my mojo back!  I am in heaven.  

Thanks for reminding me about the Amph B, wanted to ask you.  What concentration are you using?  I found a Pubmed article  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17424868  that said the standard concentration of 100 microgm/ml was ineffective however 200 and 300 microgram/ml stopped fungal growth.   Are you able to adjust the concentration yourself?  Do you need a script?

I started using half a ml per 500ml of SSKI for nasal wash and I believe that is what is helping me (only did it past 2 days so far and haven't been rechecked yet for mold but I am guessing it will take about 6 weeks to kill off based on pubmed article).  I feel really clear after using it.  

As for you second guessing extraction I would urge you to have it done.  No matter what you do with that metal in your body you will never be free from the toxic mold, not to mention heavy metal poisoning.  I am hyper focused on the mold issue as it is so much harder to clear and it produces POWERFUL CARCINOGENIC toxins.  My dr has been very clear about that and has asked me several times if I am up to date with my female cancer screenings.  I also am a fan of neural therapy.  There is an inflammatory response that occurs as a result of microbial infection in people like us, the clinical term is cascade and it has been well documented that if the cycle is allowed to continue we end up with things like MS, ALS, cancers, pretty much dead one horrible way or another.  Dr Klingardt talks about this as well as dr Shoemaker, two geniuses that I feel I owe my life to although I have never met either one.  Anyway, neural therapy is one way to break some of the cascade and allows healing.  Dehydrated garlic (open caps in let sit in water for 1 minute before drinking) and vigorous exercise are also ways to break through the "biofilm" that people like us have which harbors the microbes, allowing them to thrive and hide from the remedies we use.

So what are you thinking?  Is having the extraction done and leaving the sinus alone (except for cleaning it out with ozone at the time of extraction) an option for a wait and see approach?  What a tough call.  There are plenty of people who have had sinus surgery to smooth the landscape and done really well.  Then there are those who are worse.  Bottom line is it seems like you know you need the implant out?  I am going to give it my best shot to get rid of the mold for the next six weeks and then I will try the dr in Az and if all fails I will seriously consider surgery to remove the mold.

I hope you do not use my time line in considering how quickly your health will be restored.  I felt SO much better immediately after extraction but then it was months before I realized the big issue of mold, then throw in the lyme and pneumonias for good measure.  It was late summer before I started to seriously address the mold and late Sept when I started ozone therapy so I would say three months and then you may be almost back to normal?

I would meditate on it a lot and follow my gut if I were you.  Well, that as well as research a lot (your strong suit) and follow your gut. You will know what to do and have peace with your decision and be on your way to restored health.

Happy holidays!    
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Hi there.  You need a script for the Amphotericin B nasal spray, & the M.D./Homeopathic practitioner who started me on it mixes it himself--I don't know what the concentration is, but I can ask next time I go in.  Another time I purchased some from a compounding pharmacy, but it didn't seem as potent.  The mix the Dr. makes is a strong golden yellow, where as what came from the compounding pharmacy was a a lighter pale gold.  Also, the M.D. told me that most of his clients use the mix for 3 months and then they are finished.  It is only me who has been using it for a year.  He thinks maybe there is something dead which fungus is growing on.  Cheery.  
The surgeon who as agreed to remove the implant and deal with the sinus issue is the chair of the oral surgery dept. @ U.C.S.F., so I don't think he will be using ozone as it is not mainstream yet.  Finding a competent oral surgeon who uses ozone is a rarity, I've found.

What is SSKI?  Is it the dentists who are administering ozone via dental injections?  In this way you can avoid cavitation surgery?  I had 10 i.v. ozone treatments (5 + 5 for two weeks straight) last winter.  Each treatment took about two hours.  I did this last winter in an attempt to cure the infective portion of my troubles and also reverse autoimmune issues.  Looking back, it was very helpful.  I may do another series if necessary.  

In looking into the household mold so far I'm being told I need to have some obvious toxic spill or warped flooring with mold growing up the walls to have any reason to be troubled by environmental contaminants. One industrial hygienist did tell me he had a titanium rod in his neck & told me any foreign body, especially metal, is a nidus for infection.  He was telling me he has to take antibiotics before he gets his teeth cleaned, so that he doesn't get an infection around the rod in his neck.

It certainly sounds like you are getting your life back. Yay!  Happy Holidays.:)
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Hi to everyone who reads these posts. I live in the UK and had 2 upper implants removed 7 years ago, I  had them for 3 years. I still have some left all in the upper jaw and have many issues with the remaining implants. I had a terrible problem trying to find someone who would remove the implants who thought I really was mad. He made me feel so stupid I will not go back to him. When I get more time I will post my whole story but I just wanted you all to know in my case the very well integrated long implants came out after drilling around them in about 15 mins each one. I had no pain after, well not much and although I have a very slight dent where they were I am able to wear a partial with no problem at all. The pain from around these 2 implants dissappeared in a day and all the gum issues healed in a week. The only mistake I have ever made in my life is having dental implants and the best thing I have ever done is have 2 out!!
I now need to find a very skilled and understanding surgeon who will take the rest out. I know then my sinus and many other problems will go away. Please do not be frightened about implant removal, it is only a problem because implant dentists do not want to admit that implants are not for everyone.
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.Thanks for the positive post as I am having two removed this Thursday and Friday. This makes me feel a bit less nervous.
I was at my dentists last night and we were discussing the whole thing about typical dentist thinking this is a mental issue with people who want them removed. Who would ever subject themselves to wanting implants removed after all the cost to put them in, then the cost to remove them!!??
You would have to be pretty damn crazy to do that.without good reason!!  
We know our bodies and we have the courage to fix a very real problem. Cheers for us. :)
I thank my lucky stars that when I made this decision the right dentist and surgeon fell into my lap.
I hope you find someone to help you with the rest of your implants.
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So glad you were able to read my post and hoped it helped. I should have said the slight dent left after removal was like one left when having a tooth out, I can only see it when I lift my lip high up. Did not mean to worry anyone. I got myself into such a state about the removal I thought my heart would stop but I cannot believe how easy it was and how little pain I had afterwards.
Although I had been told there was nothing wrong one implant had dead bone at the tip and the other had soft bone on one side, I actually cried because no one would believe me that I was in pain as all tests xrays appeared normal. I now have major gum reccession around the other implants as I believe my body cannot cope with these foreign objects.
You are so right, who in their right mind would go through having implants and then want them taken out if they did not have major problems.
Finding the right person to take them out is the key and this is not easy. I also think it takes a lot of courage to ask for help.
Good wishes to you, stay calm.
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Thank you so much for the good news!  
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Great news from scargills and just what you need for tomorrow.  I am so happy you have found a competent surgeon who will remove the implants and am going to be thinking the best for you.  Perhaps this will be the first step in getting your old life back!
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Good luck!  hope the extraction went well!  keep us posted
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SSKI is super concentrated potassium chloride, i get it by script from my dr in jersey.  

shoemaker started using VORICONAZOLE NASAL SPRAY instead of amph B, got better results.

want to talk to you more about mold and also a new protocol I am researching but i am rushing now.  will try to write more later.  running out to an an appt with a DC who does SOT craniopathy which is supposed to help my sinus drain.
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. Hi Everyone,
One implant out one to go(next week). Surgeon said it came out easier than he expected. I was nervous so it was a stressful procedure for me. I actually cried from relief when it came out.
After much thought and research I decided to have the zirconium implants put in. I am sharing this so others who read this one day can see it is an option.
Too much to write about now but I am very happy and very comfortable with my decision. Bridges and partials were not really an option for many reasons.
If any one has anything negative to say about this, for my mental well being please refrain at this time. This has been a long road and no decisions have been made lightly.
Thanks for the support and information here, it has been more help than you all can imagine.
I will keep you all poste.Hopefully there will not be to much pain when the novicane wears off.
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morning after--no pain in the extracted area, just pain from the Novocain. This is a pleasant surprise as I was expecting there to be pain afterwards.
Took one aleave last night just to be safe but I really did not need it.
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Wow!  One down & one to go.

It makes sense that the zirconium will not react with the other metals in your mouth. You must have a progressive oral surgeon if he is using the ceramic implants.  Every oral surgeon and/or periodontist I have consulted only places the titanium implants.  

Happy healing.:)
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so blessed that as soon as I made the decision these two angels of dentists were right down the street and happy to take this on.
You know titatium implants also block the energy flow in the body to vital organs, this is troublesome too. Zirconium allows the energy to flow through.
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So happy for you!!!  Can't wait to hear how your health progresses.

As for the zirconium ceramic implant the biological/holistic dentist I see at NIHA in DC has been using them for years with great results.  Won't use any other type of implant; that is a stamp of approval I respect very much.

Hoping things continue to go smoothly for you and thanks so much for the update.

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I just got back from DC (exhausted).  Still have mold in my sinus.  This time he drilled into my jaw first and then injected ozone.  4 spots.  The reason I felt so much better after my last visit, besides that I am getting some quality sleep, is that last time he did something called Allergy Relief Technique (ART) which one year ago I would have called voodoo but it really works.  can't really explain how it is done, it is energetic, but it stopped the allergic response I was having to the mold.  So even though I am still infected it is not making me sick anymore.  It taught my body how to coexist with it without going into the whole cascade cycle I was telling you about.  This man is a combination of a genius and energetic healer, I am blown away.  Oh, btw his name is Mark McClure is it hadn't come up before.

So we have developed a new strategy, I am going all in to hit this thing as hard as I can.  Doing detox after the holidays and I will be in DC for a week so he can hit me with ozone injections and IVs and knock the $h!# out of this stuff.

Also wanted to tell you a little more about mold.  I have also heard that if you had a mold problem you would see it but it is not true.  The slow leak we had in the shower caused mold growth that took 10 years to finally eat away enough of the wall for us to see it.  When the demolition was done we were able to see  that the mold had eaten away a good chunk of 2 by 4 as well as a very good sized hole in the floor board beneath the tile.  The damage was not visible to us at all (except a tiny amt of mold on the molding which appeared after 10 yrs) until we did the demo.  The stories I have read from people who have mold sickness are similar to mine.  The lucky ones who see the problem right away usually are not ill.  I am really hoping you don't have a mold problem at home but it seems like you have been exposed at some point?  Maybe in a building you have worked in?  The ducts in office buildings have been identified as sources of mold making people ill.

I know I am hyper focused on mold because it has made me so ill so I certainly hope I am not being too annoying about it.

Happy Holidays!
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Wishing you the best. That mold stuff really is horrible. I am glad you are on top of it and I am sure you will be well in good time!
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If you do an internet search on heavy metal toxicity and mold there is a connection.  I am certain there is a mold/fungus in my sinus because whenever I go off the antifungals & use antibiotics I get a grey mucus that looks like it has lint in it.  It is only because one M.D. who actually listened to my history & symptoms put 2 + 2 together and had me try the Amphotericin B nasal wash/spray (more like a squirt bottle) that I am feeling as good as I am.  I am so thankful for him.  My traditional allergist keeps telling me there cannot be mold/fungus in my sinus because #1 he doesn't see it on the ct scan #2 a skin test from 08' shows no reaction to molds.  How does a test from 08' have anything to do with an injury to the sinus and breathing mold from a washer I will never know.  A great majority of the M.D.s & dentists today have been brainwashed to actually believe they are being told the whole truth by "authorities" too much influenced by profit and politics.  Gee, if you see something that you are told doesn't exist, does that mean it really doesn't exist??  I only went back to him because I wanted a refill on an rx.  

The dentist you told me about in CA told me of a mold dr. in CA.  Meanwhile, the dogs itch, one has terminal eye weeping, husband & I both have intermittent numbness/tingling (he thinks some of his symptoms stem from titanium clips used in an abdominal surgery), kid is tired all the time (but maybe due to too much homework), congested half the time.  I would find it hard to breath if not for the Nizoral/ Amphotericin.  We disposed of the moldy Maytag--really I should post a pic of that piece of crap online.  Can the mold just stay in your clothes indefinitely?  It would be quite costly to replace everything!  


Meanwhile counting down the days until Jan. 17th when the screw will be out of my head.  This surgeon, who is head of oral surgery @ U.C.S.F. says he can clean out the sinus as well, so maybe that is my chance to physically rid myself of the mold.  I just wish he could rinse the area with ozone as well.  Maybe just getting rid of the metal and big dip in the sinus will be enough to discourage further mold growth.  

Meanwhile is it possible giving up a daily Dr. Zevia drink maybe is improving some symptoms?  How much aluminum do you get from a canned beverage?  

Tomorrow I will be calling another industrial hygienist or mold testing consultant.  The one I talked to last week said we would have to see or smell the mold for it to be a problem.  Other substances that contribute to sick building syndrome are numerous and it would be thousands to set up cannisters to collect samples.  I have heard there are mold sniffing dogs--I wonder how they know the difference between a little and a lot of mold, because everyone has a little, don't they?  

Good luck in D.C.. next week.:)

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If you are one of the 20 people who reported specific physical symptoms occurring after dental implant surgery, did you have numbness & tingling?

In doing a quick scan there are 6: 1)myself 2)cascpa4321 3)estring 4)lambyoung 5)fleetz 6)terrybrown.  This quick check is 30%, but I didn't have the energy to go sift through every post in detail.  

This would be validating information to have if you are one of the people who had or have numbness/tingling since dental implant surgery.

Thanks.:)
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Numbness and tingling are my primary *constant*  symptom,with muscle soreness and fatique coming in next . It started right after the first implant was put in and magnfied a year later when I had the second one put in.
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I thought it was just me until I read all the stories of others suffering, experiencing major health problems, diminished life/ability to perform TDL, and pain 27/7, etc.
Two years ago I had all my teeth fitted with "Zirconium" veneers! I shouldn't have been so trusting! I had/have pre-existing health problems, Such as: MS, FMS/CFS, DDD of my spine-(& the oral surgeon was aware of this), but never implied there may be allergies, or complications!
My teeth have "Hurt" ever since I had these put in my mouth-(to the point I live on Ensure, & soft foods), but the surgeon continues to ignore me, adding it's not related to the veneers! I have a horrible taste in my mouth, in spite of brushing my teeth, & worsening of the chronic pain from the diseases I have!
When brushing a few weeks ago, I noticed that this metal- "Zirconium", has actually disappeared- (obviously leaking into my body 24/7), & leaving the gold underneath exposed on several teeth, & the others are beginning to show signs of this metal overlay... Eroding! My health continues to worsen, each day is more painful than the one before, what little energy I had is gone, & I'm suffering from depression that is becoming worse!
This surgeon was paid a fortune, but continues to ignore my pleas for help, and wants me to believe this is all in my head! Now I have to wait until after the holidays just to show him "his" expensive, fancy dental restoration...Is not only "falling apart", but is poisening me daily!
Now I've read a lot about others veneers, & implants-(but so far only "Titanium" ones)!
This brings me to another issue: In 2007, I fell- breaking my hip...Resulting in a "Total Hip Replacement", which is made using two metals: "Titanium" & "Cobalt"!!!
I would love to hear from anyone that's having serious health problems, & diminished quality of life, since having one of these three metals
surgically put into their bodies! There is not enough, or "any" research on the effects of these metals being put into someone's body! To make matters worse, the ADA, AMA, DEA, & FDA apparently want "us" to believe it's all in "our" heads-(& want to sweep all this, under the rug), dismiss people who are suffering, all because "they" did NOT do their homework/research: Before allowing these metals to be used in the general population-&/or take into consideration certain individuals who already suffer from diseases, & serious health conditions! I am angry, & each day my health status deteriorates!
Please... I would be interested in comments from anyone who is experiencing a decline in their
health since having one or more of these metals put into their bodies!
It's time "someone", "anyone" in the medical profession, or our government to take action! We should not have to put up with being ignored, & blame assigned to "us"! We are human beings... Not "guinea pigs"! Someone needs a good kick in the pants-(or truthfully, their pocketbooks)! The medical & dental profession in the US is "highway robbery"! If you agree with what I'm saying, & are suffering while life now just passes us by, because each day is filled with exhaustion and pain... Please I would really like your suggestions, comments, or merely someone to listen to your story... Contact me! Alone we can do little, but together we have a fighting chance to make a change in what I consider to be a crime by those who took an oath: "First do no harm"! It's all about money & power... Isn't this sad? Whom are we supposed to trust? I will leave you with "this" to think about! In the meantime: "Happy Holidays" from "someone" who does care! Bye for now~Stormy
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Do you think the hip replacement started this cascade of ill health & then all the veneers just added to your situation?  Most of us have noted a decline in health after the invasive procedure of lifting the sinus and/or drilling an implant into the jaw.  When were you diagnosed with MS, FMS, CFS, & degenerative disk disease?  Was it after the hip replacement?  Oh I feel sorry for you if you had every tooth worked on and now have pain in all of them.  It sounds you have a variety of metals under the zirconium?

The problem is that there is lots (as you know) of money to be made in these procedures, for obvious reasons not too much interest in studying or making known the complications and ramifications of installing these various materials in the body.  For the last two years I have been going from doctor to doctor hoping for a definite diagnosis and plan of action for regaining my health, and the best I have come up with is a couple of M.D.s' who are addressing the inflammation/infection in the sinus induced by the implant.  It took a year to find these guys.  It has taken almost two years to find a surgeon willing to tackle the task of removing the implant and repairing or cleaning out the sinus that was disturbed by the implant.  He is making no promises.  As for my immune system returning to normal, only time will tell.  

The best thing would be to make the public aware of the side effects of invasive procedures such as dental implants and also the effects of oral galvanism and metal sensitivity.  Most dentists are ignorant and choose to stay that way, but times are going to change as the public is becoming more aware of the toxicity of various dental materials and procedures.  

Another issue as you know is that certain individuals are more likely to encounter side effects due to these procedures and should be warned or screened beforhand.  In my case pre-existing sinusitis/allergies and the use of nasal inhalers should have been a contraindication to the sinus lift procedure and at the very least required a CT scan to ensure the sinus wasn't perforated during the ostomy (drilling) phase of the procedure.  My personal conclusion is that someone with a family or personal history of autoimmune disease and/or allergies is not a good candidate for implanting foreign substances in the body unless absoloutly necessary.  

In my case the very experienced and over confident periodontist looked at me and didn't even think about the ramifications.   He wasn't thinking about my health, but instead about the $3000 he was going to charge for a 45 minute procedure.  He is an individual example of what is wrong with the bigger picture in medicine and dentistry.  Money #1.  People #2.

It has occurred to me there should be a class-action lawsuit against the ADA on behalf of people who have had their health adversly affected by sensitvity to various metals or the invasive procedure of installing an implant.  In this way the public would become more aware of the risk involved and think twice before paying to have their health adversely affected.  Right now the focus is on regaining my health, so I haven't spent time pursuing this.

Happy Holidays to all!  We are still here.  Survivors!  May the coming year bring better health to us all!




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Medwatch is the FDA's program for reporting serious reactions and problems w/ medical products, such as drugs & medical devices.  The website has a link for reporting serious adverse reactions to medical devices.  Who knows if any of our symptoms would be deemed "serious"?

They claim to be "protecting and promoting your health".  
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so glad you booked a date for extraction!  i am counting down with you.  

you can absolutely have mold in your sinus without it being detected on scans.  I don't even have any visible signs of discharge, just clear mucus and not alot and my 2 drs have still picked it up.  If your dr knew anything about mold he/she would know that mold can be detected in the blood and a specific eye test.  the mold literate drs do not diagnose with scans.  and as for the allergy test first, mold sickness is not an allergy, it is a biotoxin illness, an elementary fact and second, skin ***** testing for people like us whose immune system's are not working properly are invalid to diagnose allergy if it was one anyway.   Gosh I am so frustrated by incompetent drs!  your should go to dr shoemaker's website to arm yourself with info because i can tell you, you will know more about biotoxin illness than most drs ever will, and only then will you find someone competent to treat you.  hope you can see this survivingmold.com.  go to the diagnosis page first and see if you think it fits you.

you are right about mold and metal.  when mold is exposed to EMF's it grows at 600 times the normal rate.  the metals from the implants cause EMF's to the point where one dr i saw said i was a charged battery.

as for mold in clothes they just need to be laundered properly.  i washed everything i owned with Infinite Green San-A-Safe 1/8 c per load.  things that can't be laundered need to be drycleaned.  I didnt want to expose myself to the perc chemicals as they are very carcinogenic so i looked for a green drycleaner who does carbon cleaning. well i found a lot of "green cleaners" but i found out they were really just false advertising.  i found a place that does carbon cleaning about 2 hrs away and was set to have the contents of my closet cleaned, which i estimated to be several thousand dollars when a friend offered to lend me his ozone machine.  his business does remediation work after fires and to get the smoke smell out of peoples houses and clothes he uses an ozone machine.  ozone also kills mold so i was very lucky i got to clean my clothes for free.

as for testing, we had our house tested several times and each time it cost approx $400.  you may want to call the mold dr to see if they recommend anyone for mold testing.  i know there is a good resource online for mold testing, like a nat'l hotline that could rec someone reputable.  shoemaker may even have a resource on his site cant remember.

i think you will feel a lot better after extraction and then you can see where all the pieces fit.  i could not think straight at all until after mine was out and then things just came together, albeit slowly.  

i am starting my new protocol in a few days.  first have to do a thyroid push for 18 days.  then raw foods detox for one week and will be receiving daily ozone IVs and other mold killing treatments at the same time.  then 11 days of a very very strong organ flush detox.  that should finally cure me.  i should be totally new by feb.  

and btw, i think you have the strongest case for malpractice i have ever heard.  make sure you keep the implant in your possession after extraction.  it sounds like the procedure was contraindicated for you given your medical history but there is always room for interpretation there; however, the dr s assistant telling him they were out of the appropriate size implant for you and then him placing one that was way too big is the definition of negligent malpractice.  i would think you have a very strong case.
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Welcome to the club!  So sorry to hear about your health issues.  I am not a dr but from what I have learned you have to try to get as much metal out of your body as possible.  The different metals are interacting with each other (galvanizing) in a way that is making you sick.  Any first year chemistry student knows that this happens when two or more metals are in the presence of a conductor (human body in your case) so why Drs do this is baffling.  Heck, even a third grader can make a battery and understand the concept of how it works.

In the meantime you may want to look into following an alkaline diet.  The metals are making your body acidic, like battery acid, and are exacerbating your pre-exhisiting conditions at the very least.

I am a registered dietitian and have been researching the link between my illness and diet and am about to start a new protocol.  I will keep anyone who is interested posted on this thread on how it works.

Wishing you well and glad you found us.
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You mentioned diet.
I wanted to put it out there that when I got really sick after my second implant I intuitively went on a very balanced vegan raw foods only diet. I have to say it made the world of a difference. I regained back most of my health just from diet alone. It is extreme but it sure has worked to keep me functioning as well as I do.  
Last implant comes out TOMORROW! :)
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Bingo!  you hit it on the head!  Thanks so much for sharing that.  i also had success with the Body ecology diet but for me the raw foods is easier, dont have to think about it.  of course i am starting my new protocol after the holidays, one last hoorah!

Good Luck Tomorrow!  

Oh, and if you are interested in a detox I highly recommend supplements from supergoodstuff.com.  If you need advice just call the # on the website and ask for Keith.  I came across it while looking for supplements with very specific ingredients based on the research i have read over the years.  I went looking to put together my own protocol based on the most advanced research and was very impressed to find that this company had been using all the ingredients I was looking for years and constantly tweaking them to make them better.  As I said, I start my new protocol in a few days and will post here how it goes.

Just for the record, I have not been keeping up with my plan (supplements, nasal wash, diet) as it is a crazy busy time of year and I am having some symptoms return such as fatigue, sinus congestion, headaches, joint pain.  If my plan goes as expected I should be like new by Feb 1 and I will not need to devote so much time daily to maintaining my health.

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