Aa
would like Dr. Chengs advise on tcm for seizures
need alternative medical advise for seizures
by Acumom, Jul 19, 2009 06:04PM
I am an acupuncturist however I've never treated my animals. After 6 yrs, my poodle rescue had a seizure.
A guest had come in the door, and the dog seemed more than usually excited, jumping up, then becoming uncoordinated, posturing with her head etc. We took her to the vet, and they gave her valium, phenobarbitol. We left her overnight, and they reported that she was very hyper. She didn't have any seizures for a while, and now lately she is having them with more regularity. This weekend she had three. We give her valium rectally. I would like to know if we can give her a particular chinese herbal formula, which one - Tia Ma Gou teng yin, or something to help liver yang rising or internal wind?? She gets very mushy and wants to lay on me before the seizure. She doesn't loose consciousness, she postures with her head, and her leg will spasm out, she looses her footing on the tile floor. She looks confused.We have a holistic vet in So. Florida, but there is a 4 mo. wait to see her. What can I do in the meantime. I would prefer not to give her valium or phenobarb. Also what points would you recommend that I use to help her. I have to get a hold of a canine acupuncture point chart. Thanks
by Acumom, Jul 19, 2009 06:04PM
I am an acupuncturist however I've never treated my animals. After 6 yrs, my poodle rescue had a seizure.
A guest had come in the door, and the dog seemed more than usually excited, jumping up, then becoming uncoordinated, posturing with her head etc. We took her to the vet, and they gave her valium, phenobarbitol. We left her overnight, and they reported that she was very hyper. She didn't have any seizures for a while, and now lately she is having them with more regularity. This weekend she had three. We give her valium rectally. I would like to know if we can give her a particular chinese herbal formula, which one - Tia Ma Gou teng yin, or something to help liver yang rising or internal wind?? She gets very mushy and wants to lay on me before the seizure. She doesn't loose consciousness, she postures with her head, and her leg will spasm out, she looses her footing on the tile floor. She looks confused.We have a holistic vet in So. Florida, but there is a 4 mo. wait to see her. What can I do in the meantime. I would prefer not to give her valium or phenobarb. Also what points would you recommend that I use to help her. I have to get a hold of a canine acupuncture point chart. Thanks
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Acumom, Dr. Cheng has been out for several weeks with a medical issue. I've asked Dr. Osborne to answer your question as she also is an expert in a variety of alternative care. We hope to see Dr. Cheng back soon. I hope Dr. Osborne's answer is helpful to you.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Hello Acumom,
This is Dr. Cheng writing. This week I will begin answering questions again. However, this question caught my eye as I was browsing. I think that Dr. Osborne has given an excellent answer. I just have a tiny bit to add.
I do not routinely prescribe any herbal formulas, dietary changes, or perform acupuncture, without a tongue and pulse diagnosis for the specific patient. In Traditional Chinese Medicine one size does not fit all. Traditional Chinese medicine is very individually oriented. If you still require assistance please post a photo of your dog's tongue and a description of the femoral pulses. If a photo of her tongue is not possible, (or clear enough), just give a description, and I would be delighted to help.
Even though you are an acupuncturist it would be an excellent idea to bring your dog to a board certified veterinary acupuncturist. This would take out the guess work, and the two of you could collaborate.
This is Dr. Cheng writing. This week I will begin answering questions again. However, this question caught my eye as I was browsing. I think that Dr. Osborne has given an excellent answer. I just have a tiny bit to add.
I do not routinely prescribe any herbal formulas, dietary changes, or perform acupuncture, without a tongue and pulse diagnosis for the specific patient. In Traditional Chinese Medicine one size does not fit all. Traditional Chinese medicine is very individually oriented. If you still require assistance please post a photo of your dog's tongue and a description of the femoral pulses. If a photo of her tongue is not possible, (or clear enough), just give a description, and I would be delighted to help.
Even though you are an acupuncturist it would be an excellent idea to bring your dog to a board certified veterinary acupuncturist. This would take out the guess work, and the two of you could collaborate.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Dr. Osborne, thank you for a great answer to this question.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Hello,
The most common cause of seizures in Chinese medicine is an Upward Disturbance of Wind Phlegm, the pathophysiology of which is somewhat complex.
It is always best to work directly with your vet in these cases.
Potassium bromide is emerging as a first choice to control seizures over phenobarbital.
Alternative options to control epilepsy include using a hypoallergenic diet due to the correlation between food and neurotransmitter production. Dogs with concurrent allergies tend to respond best.
Dairy products are often used to disguise various medications and may actually promote seizure activity in some dogs as may feeding large meals made of highly processed foods and large meals high in carbohydrates.
Raw diets are helpful to relieve seizures in certain overweight dogs dogs as they help to slow digestion and absorption. If you try this, be sure to introduce the raw foods slowly in to the diet which to help relieve seizures is best if it is high in fat and protein and low in carbs, similar to an "Atkins" diet.
Acupuncture is helpful to move the Qi flow down the bladder channel and and help regulate Qi flow up the Du Mai and Yang Qiao Mai. The acupuncture points to use for this are BL, 21, 25, 26, 40 and 62; SI 3: PC 6; ST 40; LIV 2; and GV 2 and 30.
Intermittent digital pressure (10 to 60 seconds per compression at intervals of 2 to 15 minutes) to the upper eyelid of one or both eyes to compress the globe of the eye(eyeball) is also helpful for home management of long seizures.
In extremely hot, damp cases with strong pulses, Long Dan Xie Gan Tang may be used to control initial seizures. If you see any decline in energy or appetite loss discontinue use of the Long Dan Xie Gan Tang. A starting dose of granular concentrate of Long Dan Xie Gan Tang is 1/4 teaspoon per 10-15 pounds of body weight or 60-75mg/kg of body weight.
This would need to be used initially then switching to a milder formula such as Ban Xia Bai Zhu Tian Ma Tang is best for long term use. The success of Ban Xia Bai Zhu Tian Ma Tang is said to be as it relates idiopathic epilepsy to food sensivities, especially dairy. The link between idiopathic epilepsy and diet has been established in people (Werbach,1996) although this correlation is not yet formally recognized in veterinary medicine.
Be sure to work directly with a vet skilled in Chinese Medicine before beginning any of these protocols in your dog.
Thank you,
Dr. Carol Osborne, DVM
The most common cause of seizures in Chinese medicine is an Upward Disturbance of Wind Phlegm, the pathophysiology of which is somewhat complex.
It is always best to work directly with your vet in these cases.
Potassium bromide is emerging as a first choice to control seizures over phenobarbital.
Alternative options to control epilepsy include using a hypoallergenic diet due to the correlation between food and neurotransmitter production. Dogs with concurrent allergies tend to respond best.
Dairy products are often used to disguise various medications and may actually promote seizure activity in some dogs as may feeding large meals made of highly processed foods and large meals high in carbohydrates.
Raw diets are helpful to relieve seizures in certain overweight dogs dogs as they help to slow digestion and absorption. If you try this, be sure to introduce the raw foods slowly in to the diet which to help relieve seizures is best if it is high in fat and protein and low in carbs, similar to an "Atkins" diet.
Acupuncture is helpful to move the Qi flow down the bladder channel and and help regulate Qi flow up the Du Mai and Yang Qiao Mai. The acupuncture points to use for this are BL, 21, 25, 26, 40 and 62; SI 3: PC 6; ST 40; LIV 2; and GV 2 and 30.
Intermittent digital pressure (10 to 60 seconds per compression at intervals of 2 to 15 minutes) to the upper eyelid of one or both eyes to compress the globe of the eye(eyeball) is also helpful for home management of long seizures.
In extremely hot, damp cases with strong pulses, Long Dan Xie Gan Tang may be used to control initial seizures. If you see any decline in energy or appetite loss discontinue use of the Long Dan Xie Gan Tang. A starting dose of granular concentrate of Long Dan Xie Gan Tang is 1/4 teaspoon per 10-15 pounds of body weight or 60-75mg/kg of body weight.
This would need to be used initially then switching to a milder formula such as Ban Xia Bai Zhu Tian Ma Tang is best for long term use. The success of Ban Xia Bai Zhu Tian Ma Tang is said to be as it relates idiopathic epilepsy to food sensivities, especially dairy. The link between idiopathic epilepsy and diet has been established in people (Werbach,1996) although this correlation is not yet formally recognized in veterinary medicine.
Be sure to work directly with a vet skilled in Chinese Medicine before beginning any of these protocols in your dog.
Thank you,
Dr. Carol Osborne, DVM
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