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Animal Health – General (Expert Forum)
Flea & Tick Control
Answered by
Jennifer Mathis, D.V.M. - General Medicine, dogs, cats, small exotics
Family Pet Veterinary Center
West Des Moines - IA
This forum is for general pet health questions, such as questions about medications, parasites, vaccines, infectious diseases, breed specific and genetic problems.
Flea & Tick Control
by Howard1942, Nov 06, 2009 10:24PM
Type of Animal
:
cat
Age of Animal
:
6
Sex of Animal
:
Female
Breed of Animal
:
mixed
Last date your pet was examined by a vet?
:
October 30, 2009
City
:
Norman
State/Province
:
Ok
Country
:
USA
Blood Test Results
:
not done
X-Ray Results
:
not done
Other pertinent test results
:
none
Doctor's Answer
by Jennifer Mathis, D.V.M., Nov 07, 2009 05:13AM
, Nov 07, 2009 05:13AMTo: Howard1942
Generally, healthy cats handle this one pretty well, assuming that it was applied per label. If there is pre-existing renal disease or other underlying conditions, it would put her at higher risk of having problems no matter what was done with or to her.
Saying it can be handled well and saying it's effective is a whole other consideration.
First of all, though 90+% of cats handle it well, it is the leading cause of toxicity issues in cats. I would feel good knowing that if applied, my cat has a 1 in 10 chance of having or getting a problem from it. Then after knowing efficacy, I certainly wouldn't risk it.
It is a flea adult killer, but over the course of a month, it kills about 20% of adult fleas. It may have almost 100% effectiveness the first day or so, but on average, it does not. If applied more frequently, the chance of the toxicity (up to and including death) issues happening increase dramatically to about 8 out of 10 cats. ie do not put more on.
So let's consider the flea life cycle: we have adults. The females lay about 50 eggs a day. If only half of the population were females (often more than that), we can average it out to say for each adult flea, they lay 25 eggs a day. These microscopic eggs fall off into the environment ( deep into the carpet, cracks of the hardwood floor, etc...). Also falling off is the flea dirt, which is digested blood from your pet. (Often looks like pepper.) The eggs hatch into larvae, the larvae eat the flea dirt, the larvae turn into cocoons, the cocoons hatch into adults. This cycle repeats itself every 10-14 days, but since eggs are being laid every day, it happens every day. Now if conditions aren't right, those cocoons will hibernate -- for up to 8 months!
So your etofenprox chemical will kill all of the adults the first day or so, but everyday the cocoons are hatching new adults. By the time you get out to a week - at best it's killing 8 of 10 adults. By the time you get to 2 weeks, it's killing more like 3 of every 10 adults. Those 2-7 adults that survive, lay 25 more eggs each that hatch in 10 days to 8 months. If only one in 10 adults survived, the 25 eggs leaves you worse off than when you started. The only thing worse is no treatment at all. S-methoprene will try to make the eggs less viable, but it's not great -- ie you'll still have other problems.
So nothing on this earth will kill a cocoon. They have sticky, dried, hard shells that are down deep in the carpet. No bombs, no carpet powders, no collars, no sprays, no exterminators - NOTHING will kill a cocoon. Freezing might, fire might, but you can't freeze or burn your entire home and the lawn outside of it. As you are taking out the carpet from your home, these microscopic eggs and larvae and cocoons can fall out and be left behind. They would die within 8 months if no source of blood came by for them to repeat the cycle. ie Nothing kills a cocoon, as no one is going to remove all flooring, clean, and leave the house for 8 months.
So where to the fleas want to be? Your pets. Your pet is the cheapest, most effective flea exterminator in existence. If you call an exterminator to your home, they come armed with a chemical. This is a flea adult killing chemical. ie they'd have to come every day for 8 months to have 100% successful eradication. If they use a poor chemical, you'll not notice an improvement after the first 10 days. Where are the fleas? Where your pets go. Where do they want to be? With your pets. Give your pets an excellent "chemical" that will last - so they become the exterminator and can have success. The pets go where the fleas are and the cocoon senses the vibrations and carbon dioxide and body temperature of the pet and hatches if the conditions are right. The adult jumps on and takes a ride and dies. Frontline is 100% effective for 30 days. Actually it may be 96% effective by day 30, but reapplication on day 30 every month for 8 consecutive months will solve that problem. The 4 of 100 fleas that escape those last 7 of 30 days in the worst case scenario (it's often more successful than that) lay 100 more eggs that most will be killed when the cocoons hatch in 10 days - which is when you have the new application of Frontline on again at it's 100% success. As you get out to 8 months the numbers we are talking about diminish down to zero for those few that survive when you are talking about an extremely effective product. (especially a product that is in essence, waterproof.) Other products get groomed off.
The key to fleas: Use Frontline brand on every pet each month for 8 consecutive months. It's as simple as that.
Frontline: Be careful where you get it. I've had clients come in and purchased it on-line and it was diluted and didn't work or didn't actually have frontline in the box. There are other products: Advantage, advantage multi, vectra (may have issues), promeris (may have issues), revolution (my preference for cats), comfortis (off label tablet for cats, my preferred product in dogs). You should have success with these products as well, but there can be pitfalls. I truly prefer other products to Frontline depending on the situation, due to the staying power or other product benefits with great safety others can be used. I still use Frontline - because it always works. (If the pet is not getting bathed and you follow the key to fleas.)
On EVERY pet: If you don't use it on every pet in the house, (ASK FIRST before using it on exotics as it's okay for some and not for others and not always at the same dose) - then you've already allowed those cocoons to hatch, become adults and replicate to make new adults down the line and those cocoons will hibernate for up to 8 months as well. (There have been occasional reports that they can survive for up to a year, but it's not so concrete.) If not applied to every pet, you must only want to protect one pet and then that pet needs to wear it's Frontline flea shield every month for the rest of its life unless you can treat every pet in the household.
Each month: Remember no product is 100% effective, but the diminishing numbers and survival rate when you get out to 30 days makes it 100% effective over the 8 months. If you apply it less frequently, you'll have more survive and it'll be just as effective as the etofenprox you are using or the fleas will come back. (Usually because they've hibernated.)
8 CONSECUTIVE months: Remember they can choose to wait until the conditions are right to hatch - up to 8-12 months. You won't see fleas, but they're there - hiding in the environment. For every adult flea that exists (and most of the time the adults hide well, too - ie there are more than you see!) there are 95 other parts of the flea life cycle in the environment.
So long answer to a simple question.
Short answer: It can be safe, but it won't solve the flea problem.
As for prevention -- it's like using an umbrella with holes. Some of the rain will get through and get you wet. Will the little bits of rain dry off to be insignificant? Depends on the size of the holes. ie depends on the efficacy of the product over a month.
We've all been there. I've had fleas in my household. It is not fun. I itch just thinking about them - even though they're not a "human" parasite. I will always now use revolution or frontline or comfortis for my pets each month March through October in my area of the country as prevention.
Fleas transmit tapeworms and red blood cell parasites.
You can help (NOT FIX) an overwhelming flea infestation by vacuuming to try to fake out the cocoons to hatch and the adults to be sucked up by the vacuum. This is only a little dent in the population. Be sure to empty out the bag/wind tunnel outside after every use or they'll replicate in the vacuum and just come out with the next vacuuming.
Saying it can be handled well and saying it's effective is a whole other consideration.
First of all, though 90+% of cats handle it well, it is the leading cause of toxicity issues in cats. I would feel good knowing that if applied, my cat has a 1 in 10 chance of having or getting a problem from it. Then after knowing efficacy, I certainly wouldn't risk it.
It is a flea adult killer, but over the course of a month, it kills about 20% of adult fleas. It may have almost 100% effectiveness the first day or so, but on average, it does not. If applied more frequently, the chance of the toxicity (up to and including death) issues happening increase dramatically to about 8 out of 10 cats. ie do not put more on.
So let's consider the flea life cycle: we have adults. The females lay about 50 eggs a day. If only half of the population were females (often more than that), we can average it out to say for each adult flea, they lay 25 eggs a day. These microscopic eggs fall off into the environment ( deep into the carpet, cracks of the hardwood floor, etc...). Also falling off is the flea dirt, which is digested blood from your pet. (Often looks like pepper.) The eggs hatch into larvae, the larvae eat the flea dirt, the larvae turn into cocoons, the cocoons hatch into adults. This cycle repeats itself every 10-14 days, but since eggs are being laid every day, it happens every day. Now if conditions aren't right, those cocoons will hibernate -- for up to 8 months!
So your etofenprox chemical will kill all of the adults the first day or so, but everyday the cocoons are hatching new adults. By the time you get out to a week - at best it's killing 8 of 10 adults. By the time you get to 2 weeks, it's killing more like 3 of every 10 adults. Those 2-7 adults that survive, lay 25 more eggs each that hatch in 10 days to 8 months. If only one in 10 adults survived, the 25 eggs leaves you worse off than when you started. The only thing worse is no treatment at all. S-methoprene will try to make the eggs less viable, but it's not great -- ie you'll still have other problems.
So nothing on this earth will kill a cocoon. They have sticky, dried, hard shells that are down deep in the carpet. No bombs, no carpet powders, no collars, no sprays, no exterminators - NOTHING will kill a cocoon. Freezing might, fire might, but you can't freeze or burn your entire home and the lawn outside of it. As you are taking out the carpet from your home, these microscopic eggs and larvae and cocoons can fall out and be left behind. They would die within 8 months if no source of blood came by for them to repeat the cycle. ie Nothing kills a cocoon, as no one is going to remove all flooring, clean, and leave the house for 8 months.
So where to the fleas want to be? Your pets. Your pet is the cheapest, most effective flea exterminator in existence. If you call an exterminator to your home, they come armed with a chemical. This is a flea adult killing chemical. ie they'd have to come every day for 8 months to have 100% successful eradication. If they use a poor chemical, you'll not notice an improvement after the first 10 days. Where are the fleas? Where your pets go. Where do they want to be? With your pets. Give your pets an excellent "chemical" that will last - so they become the exterminator and can have success. The pets go where the fleas are and the cocoon senses the vibrations and carbon dioxide and body temperature of the pet and hatches if the conditions are right. The adult jumps on and takes a ride and dies. Frontline is 100% effective for 30 days. Actually it may be 96% effective by day 30, but reapplication on day 30 every month for 8 consecutive months will solve that problem. The 4 of 100 fleas that escape those last 7 of 30 days in the worst case scenario (it's often more successful than that) lay 100 more eggs that most will be killed when the cocoons hatch in 10 days - which is when you have the new application of Frontline on again at it's 100% success. As you get out to 8 months the numbers we are talking about diminish down to zero for those few that survive when you are talking about an extremely effective product. (especially a product that is in essence, waterproof.) Other products get groomed off.
The key to fleas: Use Frontline brand on every pet each month for 8 consecutive months. It's as simple as that.
Frontline: Be careful where you get it. I've had clients come in and purchased it on-line and it was diluted and didn't work or didn't actually have frontline in the box. There are other products: Advantage, advantage multi, vectra (may have issues), promeris (may have issues), revolution (my preference for cats), comfortis (off label tablet for cats, my preferred product in dogs). You should have success with these products as well, but there can be pitfalls. I truly prefer other products to Frontline depending on the situation, due to the staying power or other product benefits with great safety others can be used. I still use Frontline - because it always works. (If the pet is not getting bathed and you follow the key to fleas.)
On EVERY pet: If you don't use it on every pet in the house, (ASK FIRST before using it on exotics as it's okay for some and not for others and not always at the same dose) - then you've already allowed those cocoons to hatch, become adults and replicate to make new adults down the line and those cocoons will hibernate for up to 8 months as well. (There have been occasional reports that they can survive for up to a year, but it's not so concrete.) If not applied to every pet, you must only want to protect one pet and then that pet needs to wear it's Frontline flea shield every month for the rest of its life unless you can treat every pet in the household.
Each month: Remember no product is 100% effective, but the diminishing numbers and survival rate when you get out to 30 days makes it 100% effective over the 8 months. If you apply it less frequently, you'll have more survive and it'll be just as effective as the etofenprox you are using or the fleas will come back. (Usually because they've hibernated.)
8 CONSECUTIVE months: Remember they can choose to wait until the conditions are right to hatch - up to 8-12 months. You won't see fleas, but they're there - hiding in the environment. For every adult flea that exists (and most of the time the adults hide well, too - ie there are more than you see!) there are 95 other parts of the flea life cycle in the environment.
So long answer to a simple question.
Short answer: It can be safe, but it won't solve the flea problem.
As for prevention -- it's like using an umbrella with holes. Some of the rain will get through and get you wet. Will the little bits of rain dry off to be insignificant? Depends on the size of the holes. ie depends on the efficacy of the product over a month.
We've all been there. I've had fleas in my household. It is not fun. I itch just thinking about them - even though they're not a "human" parasite. I will always now use revolution or frontline or comfortis for my pets each month March through October in my area of the country as prevention.
Fleas transmit tapeworms and red blood cell parasites.
You can help (NOT FIX) an overwhelming flea infestation by vacuuming to try to fake out the cocoons to hatch and the adults to be sucked up by the vacuum. This is only a little dent in the population. Be sure to empty out the bag/wind tunnel outside after every use or they'll replicate in the vacuum and just come out with the next vacuuming.
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