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Frustrated with chest pressure/heart and GERD symptoms
I've posted a lot of this info here before, but I am really having trouble accepting that everything I experience is just caused by anxiety. Anxiety definitely intensifies everything, but I strongly disagree that it is causing all my current problems. I am very frustrated as I feel doctors just don't understand.
Anyway, I am 23 yrs old and I was very sick in the Winter with High Blood Pressure and Tachycardia (constant for a couple months). My blood pressure and heart rate was high all the time, even when I was in deep sleep in the E.R. on a high dose of I.V. Ativan. Nothing would make my heart rate come much below 100 for a few months. I was even told doctors that "some people just have a high resting heart rate, and maybe you have just developed primary hypertension since it runs in your family." None of this was true as the HBP and Tachycardia became episodic, and is now gone. I wasn't suffering from anxiety when this all started but anxiety increased as my health got worse. They never found out what caused all this. Despite the underlying anxiety and some other issues, I think I am better off now.
Now I worry about my health, and I can admit I have developed Panic Disorder. On top of this I had a bad few weeks of gastrointestinal issues. I get clumps of food stuck in my esophagus creating a tremendous amount of pressure. I've had the same types of symptoms during the winter months when I was ill, and thought about seeing a GI doctor, but I was more concerned about the heart symptoms and blood pressure. I still have a lot of trouble exercising as it makes me feel really ill. If I do a few pullups, i get a lot of chest pressure and chest discomfort. The discomfort feels cardiac related, but I am pretty sure it's not since I have had a huge workup throughout the past 6 months or so. Recently, I tried to convince myself that everything was just anxiety, and had a doctor prescribe me Prozac and Klonopin. Prozac made me 10x worse, so I stopped that, but I still take the Klonopin as needed. Klonopin helps with my anxiety and panic, and HELPS with the chest discomfort, but it doesn't make it go completely away. I tried Pepcid AC, Zantac, Rolaids, etc, and nothing was helping much. I thought nothing would help until someone had me try chewable Acidophilus. As long as I take them religiously after I eat anything, it gets rid of my chest discomfort. I went a couple days without any, and as soon as I got my own bottle, I had relief. My resting heart rate is also much lower and recovers much faster when I take the Acidophilus.
I saw a GI doc today that told me if the Acidophilus is working, continue doing what I am doing. He told me the gastro symptoms is not related to my heart, but I say ********! I didn't know my true resting heart rate is close to 60 bpm, and the Acidophilus has everything to do with it.
What's also strange is that I get a very slow heart rate sometimes (bradycardia). I get tachycardia 99% of the time, but I've had a couple nights of bradycardia. One night I had chest discomfort, so I took my pulse and it was in the 40's. This scared the living **** out of me as my pulse has never been close to that, and visited the E.R. with with a panic attack. Of course when I got to the E.R. my pulse and blood pressure were elevated, so no bradycardia has been seen by a doctor. Last night I had chest discomfort and a slow stuck heart rate again that stayed about 60 even after climbing a set of stairs (very abnormal for me). I felt pretty anxious about it last night, and surprisingly, the anxiety didn't have much effect on my heart rate. Normally that type of anxiety would increase my resting pulse to around 100 bpm, but it was like my heart rate was stuck.
After my doctor visit today, I tried to see if my heart issues could possibly be caused by by my GI system. I know self-diagnosing isn't good, but I am frustrated as I don't think anxiety is the heart of my problem (no pun intended). I guess I would fall under the definition of a hypochondriac as I don't think I have been given a correct diagnosis by my doctors, and want a better answer. I am always analyzing what my body is doing, and think about my health constantly. I will go some weeks trying to ignore everything and not pay attention to my body and health, but it's hard to ignore everything when I am in constant physical pain. My body screams "help me". I know the obsessive thinking can make me feel physically worse. I don't obsess about my health at all when I feel good physically.
Anyway, after my appointment today, I googled something along the lines of "bradycardia and tachycardia with GERD". I don't recall the exact search phrase I used, but I ended up finding something very interesting called "Roemheld syndrome" on Wikipedia. The syndrome is not very well known in the U.S., but basically gastric pressure stimulates the vagus nerve causing either bradycardia or tachycardia. Now of course I can't self diagnose myself, but I do fit the description of that syndrome pretty well. Sigh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roemheld_Syndrome
Anyway, I am 23 yrs old and I was very sick in the Winter with High Blood Pressure and Tachycardia (constant for a couple months). My blood pressure and heart rate was high all the time, even when I was in deep sleep in the E.R. on a high dose of I.V. Ativan. Nothing would make my heart rate come much below 100 for a few months. I was even told doctors that "some people just have a high resting heart rate, and maybe you have just developed primary hypertension since it runs in your family." None of this was true as the HBP and Tachycardia became episodic, and is now gone. I wasn't suffering from anxiety when this all started but anxiety increased as my health got worse. They never found out what caused all this. Despite the underlying anxiety and some other issues, I think I am better off now.
Now I worry about my health, and I can admit I have developed Panic Disorder. On top of this I had a bad few weeks of gastrointestinal issues. I get clumps of food stuck in my esophagus creating a tremendous amount of pressure. I've had the same types of symptoms during the winter months when I was ill, and thought about seeing a GI doctor, but I was more concerned about the heart symptoms and blood pressure. I still have a lot of trouble exercising as it makes me feel really ill. If I do a few pullups, i get a lot of chest pressure and chest discomfort. The discomfort feels cardiac related, but I am pretty sure it's not since I have had a huge workup throughout the past 6 months or so. Recently, I tried to convince myself that everything was just anxiety, and had a doctor prescribe me Prozac and Klonopin. Prozac made me 10x worse, so I stopped that, but I still take the Klonopin as needed. Klonopin helps with my anxiety and panic, and HELPS with the chest discomfort, but it doesn't make it go completely away. I tried Pepcid AC, Zantac, Rolaids, etc, and nothing was helping much. I thought nothing would help until someone had me try chewable Acidophilus. As long as I take them religiously after I eat anything, it gets rid of my chest discomfort. I went a couple days without any, and as soon as I got my own bottle, I had relief. My resting heart rate is also much lower and recovers much faster when I take the Acidophilus.
I saw a GI doc today that told me if the Acidophilus is working, continue doing what I am doing. He told me the gastro symptoms is not related to my heart, but I say ********! I didn't know my true resting heart rate is close to 60 bpm, and the Acidophilus has everything to do with it.
What's also strange is that I get a very slow heart rate sometimes (bradycardia). I get tachycardia 99% of the time, but I've had a couple nights of bradycardia. One night I had chest discomfort, so I took my pulse and it was in the 40's. This scared the living **** out of me as my pulse has never been close to that, and visited the E.R. with with a panic attack. Of course when I got to the E.R. my pulse and blood pressure were elevated, so no bradycardia has been seen by a doctor. Last night I had chest discomfort and a slow stuck heart rate again that stayed about 60 even after climbing a set of stairs (very abnormal for me). I felt pretty anxious about it last night, and surprisingly, the anxiety didn't have much effect on my heart rate. Normally that type of anxiety would increase my resting pulse to around 100 bpm, but it was like my heart rate was stuck.
After my doctor visit today, I tried to see if my heart issues could possibly be caused by by my GI system. I know self-diagnosing isn't good, but I am frustrated as I don't think anxiety is the heart of my problem (no pun intended). I guess I would fall under the definition of a hypochondriac as I don't think I have been given a correct diagnosis by my doctors, and want a better answer. I am always analyzing what my body is doing, and think about my health constantly. I will go some weeks trying to ignore everything and not pay attention to my body and health, but it's hard to ignore everything when I am in constant physical pain. My body screams "help me". I know the obsessive thinking can make me feel physically worse. I don't obsess about my health at all when I feel good physically.
Anyway, after my appointment today, I googled something along the lines of "bradycardia and tachycardia with GERD". I don't recall the exact search phrase I used, but I ended up finding something very interesting called "Roemheld syndrome" on Wikipedia. The syndrome is not very well known in the U.S., but basically gastric pressure stimulates the vagus nerve causing either bradycardia or tachycardia. Now of course I can't self diagnose myself, but I do fit the description of that syndrome pretty well. Sigh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roemheld_Syndrome
So, I got a call from my doctor today, and it turns out that I "without a doubt" have chronic Lyme disease. Positive on all my tests. I am pleasantly surprised. Very happy to be diagnosed. Looking forward to treatment.
So, for people here who have been diagnosed with anxiety/panic attacks with headaches, heart symptoms, neurological stuff, unexplained clinical findings, etc, and with out a doubt know there is something else wrong with you, stay persistent. I have been labeled as a hypochondriac, but it looks like it's going to pay off in the long run.
I know many here will not approve of my advice, but there are other things out there that can cause anxiety/panic disorder.
So, for people here who have been diagnosed with anxiety/panic attacks with headaches, heart symptoms, neurological stuff, unexplained clinical findings, etc, and with out a doubt know there is something else wrong with you, stay persistent. I have been labeled as a hypochondriac, but it looks like it's going to pay off in the long run.
I know many here will not approve of my advice, but there are other things out there that can cause anxiety/panic disorder.
So, I had my blood draw today and FedExed it to the lab. Results come within 3 weeks or so.
Anyway, my body is playing tricks on me. I felt awesome this morning through early evening. I went for a walk on the beach for exercise and now the demons are back and I feel light-headed, dizzy, and my chest hurts. On a more positive note, atleast I am feeling ok about 75% of the time. I just have to live one day at a time, and everything will get better. Just trying to stay positive. It helps!
Anyway, my body is playing tricks on me. I felt awesome this morning through early evening. I went for a walk on the beach for exercise and now the demons are back and I feel light-headed, dizzy, and my chest hurts. On a more positive note, atleast I am feeling ok about 75% of the time. I just have to live one day at a time, and everything will get better. Just trying to stay positive. It helps!
So, I saw my N.D. today and I think we are making progress. She looked through my medical records and blood work, and she said it is obvious to her that my body has been fighting an infection. My bilirubin and lymphocytes are off, and a lot of a lot of other things that fight infection are very high or very low "normal". My potassium is low too. I feel comforted that she took the time to explain everything to me. I didn't deny my anxiety, and listed it as my second biggest symptom, but she seems to think that anxiety is just an effect.
I feel so relieved that I have a doctor that will listen to me and explain everything to me. I'm doing an expensive Lyme test that unfortunately is done by a private lab and isn't covered by insurance. It's supposed to be the best test though.
I hope that this test will come back positive. If it doesn't, she said she will change course of action and look for other bacterial causes. I feel optimistic that this will soon come to an end.
I feel so relieved that I have a doctor that will listen to me and explain everything to me. I'm doing an expensive Lyme test that unfortunately is done by a private lab and isn't covered by insurance. It's supposed to be the best test though.
I hope that this test will come back positive. If it doesn't, she said she will change course of action and look for other bacterial causes. I feel optimistic that this will soon come to an end.
Well, since last post I have been doing really well.
That being said, I took out my pull-up bar earlier today and did some pull-ups. I felt a little weird afterward, but I was fine. We did a BBQ at the beach tonight which was fun and relaxing. Felt a little dizzy at times while cooking for everyone, but I didn't think much of it. I avoided drinking anything because that is a trigger for me. I am not suffering too much, but I think I may have got my heart rate stuck again. My chest is just bothering and my pulse is stuck close to 100 bpm. Just annoying!
So, I am hoping this is just anxiety, so I took Klonopin along with a bunch of other calming herbs. I took an aspirin (if only as a placebo) so I stop worrying about my heart. Hopefully it's just anxiety that is causing this, because I hate it when my heart gets stuck for so many days. When I think "what the hell is wrong with me", my anxiety increases, so I'm doing my best to ignore my body.
That being said, I took out my pull-up bar earlier today and did some pull-ups. I felt a little weird afterward, but I was fine. We did a BBQ at the beach tonight which was fun and relaxing. Felt a little dizzy at times while cooking for everyone, but I didn't think much of it. I avoided drinking anything because that is a trigger for me. I am not suffering too much, but I think I may have got my heart rate stuck again. My chest is just bothering and my pulse is stuck close to 100 bpm. Just annoying!
So, I am hoping this is just anxiety, so I took Klonopin along with a bunch of other calming herbs. I took an aspirin (if only as a placebo) so I stop worrying about my heart. Hopefully it's just anxiety that is causing this, because I hate it when my heart gets stuck for so many days. When I think "what the hell is wrong with me", my anxiety increases, so I'm doing my best to ignore my body.
Well, no headache or nausea this morning, but my chest is very tight. I also have minor leg cramps in my calves this morning. While going to sleep last night, I think I panicked a little. I had a strange feeling in my chest that felt like my heart stopped. I jumped out of bed in fear, so I wonder if that's why my chest still hurts this morning. I do feel a little bit anxious actually.
My potassium has been low before, so maybe I just need to eat some potassium rich foods? I guess it's worth a try.
My potassium has been low before, so maybe I just need to eat some potassium rich foods? I guess it's worth a try.
There are other autonomic disorders..... Not just pots..... There is a community. Don't know anything about lyme though.
My endo told me that I do have postural hypertension. My blood pressure increases upon standing. It's like POTS, but the opposite. He said it's fairly common (like POTS), but not very well studied or understood. He is a very respected doctor in the Dallas area and has published a lot of medical journals. He took a lot of time trying to help me (about 2-3 hrs each visit), but he finally said, "I don't know". The last time I talked to him (a few months ago), he suspected it was bacterial or fungal infection since the lymph nodes in my chest go crazy, and since I had repidly appearing and disappearing pleural effusion.
Unfortunately, my PCP didn't want to test me for anything anymore. Every visit is just a waste of time and money. She tells me nothing is wrong with me and tries to push some SSRI on me. I've had major depression and anxiety before, I got help, and I was treated. Unfortunately, what I am going through is nothing like before, and I am not depressed.... at all. I do have panic disorder though.
I have a new doctor, and she wants to test me for Lyme on Monday. I told her I had been tested before, but she said the test I had was not adequate for chronic lyme. I have been bitten by a few deer ticks over the past few years (including a nearly microscopic nymph a couple months ago actually), but never seen a rash. I am not too optimistic that they will find Lyme, but that would be great news to me if I do. I'm sick of being sick.
Unfortunately, my PCP didn't want to test me for anything anymore. Every visit is just a waste of time and money. She tells me nothing is wrong with me and tries to push some SSRI on me. I've had major depression and anxiety before, I got help, and I was treated. Unfortunately, what I am going through is nothing like before, and I am not depressed.... at all. I do have panic disorder though.
I have a new doctor, and she wants to test me for Lyme on Monday. I told her I had been tested before, but she said the test I had was not adequate for chronic lyme. I have been bitten by a few deer ticks over the past few years (including a nearly microscopic nymph a couple months ago actually), but never seen a rash. I am not too optimistic that they will find Lyme, but that would be great news to me if I do. I'm sick of being sick.
I am still feeling sick in the morning, but atleast I don't feel nauseous this morning. Symptoms are pretty consistant lately. By afternoon I feel better. I haven't been feeling anxiety lately, which is nice. I am taking nothing for anxiety and I'm not doing too bad. Chest is bothering me a little bit, but it usually does. I was able to walk a couple miles yesterday, which was nice. It's about all I feel comfortable doing, but it's better than nothing, right?
Haven't been getting much replies lately. My memory seems quite impaired sometimes, so it's good for me to keep a log anyway.
I want my old self back.
Haven't been getting much replies lately. My memory seems quite impaired sometimes, so it's good for me to keep a log anyway.
I want my old self back.
So, I have completely stopped Klonopin. I feel good for the most part. I don't think klonopin helped me very much once my body got used to it. I don't think it made me feel much better, and the withdrawal was quite intense even though I was only on it for a month. I did better on ativan. I took it only when I really needed it (during acute attacks).
I saw the ND yesterday, and I really liked her. She is a naturopath, but she prescribes pharmaceuticals when needed. She wants to look through my medical records, and I am seeing her again next week. She started me on just a multivitamin and fish oil for now. I bought a good multivitamin made from raw foods (vitacode), and metagenics fish oil.
I have to say, I've only been on these supplements for a couple days, but my mind hasn't been this clear in a while. Maybe it's just a cooincidence, but it's still nice to have a clear mind. I usually feel pretty foggy and have issues with things like memory and math. I used to be good at math, so it's strange when you start having troubles with basic addition.
Anyway, the only weird thing I've experienced lately is morning headaches and nausea. I wake up with a headache and nausea around 9 AM, and it usually goes away by 1 PM. Any guesses in what causes this?
Also, I drove 4 hours today without feeling panic. I had some hot and cold flashes while driving, but I solved it by turning on and off the AC. Pretty simple. My adrenals seem to still be a bit on overdrive sometimes, but even though it doesn't feel right, I am learning to just ignore the sensation instead of being scared by it.
I still think anxiety is just a symptom of and underlying issue, but I know I need to deal with the anxiety, or else I will feel worse. I won't stress over not having a diagnosis, but I am optimistic that they will figure this out or that it will go away on its own. What's strange is that I feel very mentally stable through all this. Is there anyone else here that feels mentally fine, but is very physically affected by anxiety? I'm starting to feel a bit alone here.
I saw the ND yesterday, and I really liked her. She is a naturopath, but she prescribes pharmaceuticals when needed. She wants to look through my medical records, and I am seeing her again next week. She started me on just a multivitamin and fish oil for now. I bought a good multivitamin made from raw foods (vitacode), and metagenics fish oil.
I have to say, I've only been on these supplements for a couple days, but my mind hasn't been this clear in a while. Maybe it's just a cooincidence, but it's still nice to have a clear mind. I usually feel pretty foggy and have issues with things like memory and math. I used to be good at math, so it's strange when you start having troubles with basic addition.
Anyway, the only weird thing I've experienced lately is morning headaches and nausea. I wake up with a headache and nausea around 9 AM, and it usually goes away by 1 PM. Any guesses in what causes this?
Also, I drove 4 hours today without feeling panic. I had some hot and cold flashes while driving, but I solved it by turning on and off the AC. Pretty simple. My adrenals seem to still be a bit on overdrive sometimes, but even though it doesn't feel right, I am learning to just ignore the sensation instead of being scared by it.
I still think anxiety is just a symptom of and underlying issue, but I know I need to deal with the anxiety, or else I will feel worse. I won't stress over not having a diagnosis, but I am optimistic that they will figure this out or that it will go away on its own. What's strange is that I feel very mentally stable through all this. Is there anyone else here that feels mentally fine, but is very physically affected by anxiety? I'm starting to feel a bit alone here.
How can I get the chest pain to go away??
Upped my benzos for the night. Also tried Kava, Valerian, etc. Nothing works. I'm very chilled. I guess I'll try some aspirin too.
I used to have hydrocodone left over from when I hurt my shoulder. Last time I had pain like this, popped one of those, and it went away. I've asked my doc to give me some when I had that pain, and she said something like "You shouldn't be taking that stuff for anxiety".
Gonna take a hot bath because I am freezing. I think I need help.
Upped my benzos for the night. Also tried Kava, Valerian, etc. Nothing works. I'm very chilled. I guess I'll try some aspirin too.
I used to have hydrocodone left over from when I hurt my shoulder. Last time I had pain like this, popped one of those, and it went away. I've asked my doc to give me some when I had that pain, and she said something like "You shouldn't be taking that stuff for anxiety".
Gonna take a hot bath because I am freezing. I think I need help.
Doing even worse today. Was able to get work done, but the chest pain and chest pressure won't leave me. It's cold outside today, and when I walk outside, I feel extremely chilled and the chest pressure and pain is almost immediately amplified. If I get warm, the pressure and pain is much less intense. Anxiety? Really? Why I am I sensitive to the cold.
I am so confused. I'll do good some days, and other days the pain defeats me. I fought through the pain today only to feel worse. I'm trying to accept that it's just anxiety, but it really doesn't feel like anxiety. It's intense physical pain. I feel like I need pain killers. What is wrong with me.
Blood pressure: 147/104 (atleast it's not 220/160 like a couple months ago)
Heart rate: 85
I need some rest.
I am so confused. I'll do good some days, and other days the pain defeats me. I fought through the pain today only to feel worse. I'm trying to accept that it's just anxiety, but it really doesn't feel like anxiety. It's intense physical pain. I feel like I need pain killers. What is wrong with me.
Blood pressure: 147/104 (atleast it's not 220/160 like a couple months ago)
Heart rate: 85
I need some rest.
Not doing as well today as other days. Feel a bit ill today. Didn't take any Klonopin last night and wonder if that has to do with it. Continued weening this morning and feeling a bit better now.
It's just so weird that anxiety effects me physically, but I usually feel fine mentally. Is it common to experience anxiety without the psychological issues? I never break down, I am mentally and emotionally stable, I am not depressed, but the anxious feeling just makes me so physically ill. I do get severe panic attacks though out of nowhere that can send my heart to 200 bpm+. Not lately though. Most people with anxiety post that they feel like they are going crazy; I don't have this feeling at all. If anything, i feel that my body is going crazy, not me. Honestly, everything I experience feels 95% physical. I don't get it.
Anyway, I am still doing ok, and I don't have too much to complain about. Just not feeling as good as the last couple days. That's all.
It's just so weird that anxiety effects me physically, but I usually feel fine mentally. Is it common to experience anxiety without the psychological issues? I never break down, I am mentally and emotionally stable, I am not depressed, but the anxious feeling just makes me so physically ill. I do get severe panic attacks though out of nowhere that can send my heart to 200 bpm+. Not lately though. Most people with anxiety post that they feel like they are going crazy; I don't have this feeling at all. If anything, i feel that my body is going crazy, not me. Honestly, everything I experience feels 95% physical. I don't get it.
Anyway, I am still doing ok, and I don't have too much to complain about. Just not feeling as good as the last couple days. That's all.
Day 3 of weening off of Klonopin. I continue to feel even better. I took Valerian, Scullcap, and Hops, and I haven't needed to touch the kava. I don't feel any obvious psychotrophic effects when taking these supplements (maybe slightly sedated?), but I don't feel any anxiety. Nothing is bothering me physically. I've had pretty constant chest discomfort for a long while, but strangely, I don't feel it today. I'm still avoiding moderate to strenuous exercise, so no severe palpitations. My heart rate is actually a little high at 96 bpm, but I don't feel any pressure or tightness, so nothing to worry about. My heart rate always gets stuck between 110-130 for several days or weeks after exercise, so that's why I avoid moderate to strenuous exercise. My heart rate getting stuck after exercise unfortunately does not correlate with my anxiety level. I wish it did. I know everyone here likes to attribute every problem to anxiety, and I realize I will probably get a response telling me I need to "accept that it's anxiety". Unfortunately, exercise induced tachycardia runs in our family.
I haven't tried the roots. I just meant to say my health food store also sells those. I've been taking it in tea and liquid extract form. I did a little more research on Valerian, and while kava isn't recommended to take when weening off of benzos, Valerian is supposed to be a good transition medication when stopping benzodiazepines. I picked up some Valerian, Scullcap, and Hops today. I can't really tell you if they helped me (the effects aren't obvious or maybe it hasn't taken effect yet), but what I can say is that today I feel even better than yesterday, and yesterday was my best day in several weeks. Even though I got good sleep, I had the case of the yawns all day today. I feel very relaxed though.
While it isn't recommended to take kava when coming off of benzos, I have continued to do it without any adverse effects. If anything, the combination is what gives me the yawns and the tired feeling. Not a big deal. I've only had 75 mg of kavelectones today though as I feel any more would make me want to sleep all day. I took .25 mg of Klonopin today, and depending on how I feel, I may or may not take another .25 tonight. I'm thinking it might be best to just take another .25 mg so I don't wake up feeling sick tomorrow.
I'll try to go with just the Valerian, Scullcap, and Hops tomorrow, but if I don't feel good, I'll add a little kava to the mix. I'm also looking forward to my appointment on Monday with an ND. The guy at the health food store says she measures neurotransmitter levels to help determine what I need. The word on the street is that the ND I am seeing is awesome at what she does. A lot of people around here see NDs, but this will be my first visit to an ND.
Paxiled: I appreciate your knowledge and insight, and I don't doubt that you know your stuff. Thanks for the info.
While it isn't recommended to take kava when coming off of benzos, I have continued to do it without any adverse effects. If anything, the combination is what gives me the yawns and the tired feeling. Not a big deal. I've only had 75 mg of kavelectones today though as I feel any more would make me want to sleep all day. I took .25 mg of Klonopin today, and depending on how I feel, I may or may not take another .25 tonight. I'm thinking it might be best to just take another .25 mg so I don't wake up feeling sick tomorrow.
I'll try to go with just the Valerian, Scullcap, and Hops tomorrow, but if I don't feel good, I'll add a little kava to the mix. I'm also looking forward to my appointment on Monday with an ND. The guy at the health food store says she measures neurotransmitter levels to help determine what I need. The word on the street is that the ND I am seeing is awesome at what she does. A lot of people around here see NDs, but this will be my first visit to an ND.
Paxiled: I appreciate your knowledge and insight, and I don't doubt that you know your stuff. Thanks for the info.
How can you know you're taking 300mg of kava if you're buying the root? The traditional drink tastes awful, and there's not way to know how much you're taking. Not that I care; it it helps you, I'm happy, I'm just curious since you mentioned kavalectones -- the only way to know the amount of kavalectones is to test the herb, so you have to make an extract. And while I did say it was milder than benzos, which it is, that doesn't mean it won't work as well, it means it doesn't have as many possible side effects. It just isn't as strong as an isolated pharmaceutical product. And those studies didn't study very many people, weren't that rigorous, and didn't study any seriously anxious people, but I don't personally care about that, either. I only want people on here to understand the upsides and downsides. I'm a veteran manager of health food stores, so if I were starting today I would have tried to do it naturally; unfortunately, I was already on the medication carousel when I learned enough about natural remedies to know what to use and how to use them, and when I went off Paxil to try them, the withdrawal just never ended and I had paradoxical reactions from most of them. Maybe someday . . .
As for 5htp, it doesn't work the same way as ssris. Ssris, the meds you've tried, prevent the breakdown of serotonin, allowing the neurons to bathe in it longer than they would normally. Whereas 5htp is a metabolite of tryptophan, the amino acid that manufactures serotonin in the body. It's the difference between making more, or making it more efficiently, in the first place versus using it in a way that is different than the normal mechanism the body would normally do it. So it won't be at all like taking an ssri.
Good luck with the naturopath.
As for 5htp, it doesn't work the same way as ssris. Ssris, the meds you've tried, prevent the breakdown of serotonin, allowing the neurons to bathe in it longer than they would normally. Whereas 5htp is a metabolite of tryptophan, the amino acid that manufactures serotonin in the body. It's the difference between making more, or making it more efficiently, in the first place versus using it in a way that is different than the normal mechanism the body would normally do it. So it won't be at all like taking an ssri.
Good luck with the naturopath.
To my understanding, taking 300 mg a day of kava (100 mg 3x a day) is as effective as benzodiazepines in studies I have read. I wouldn't call the effects mild as the effects are obvious and I feel them as quickly or quicker than something like Ativan. I don't know how effective kava would be for treating a panic attack though. I am hoping that I won't ever have one again anyway (wishful thinking?). I haven't had a "high" experience on kava, but that's not really what I'm looking for. It's just very calming. Kava isn't supposed to make you tired, but it makes me very sleepy for a while and I get a case of the yawns. I've only took .25 mg of Klonopin yesterday, and roughly 225 mg of Kava (~75mg 3x a day), and I physically felt the best I have in a while. I know I said that I wasn't going to take Kava with Klonopin, but I only took .25 mg the whole day, and it was easy! The people at the health food store sell the roots (from Vanuatu I think), and they say preparing it the traditional way gives the best effects. Everyone that works there are hippies, so I assume they know what they are talking about.
I currently take Natural Calm magnesium supplement. The majority of people are magnesium deficient (61% according to the USDA), and it really does help me. I've looked into the Valerian and hops combination, but I heard the Valerian loses its kick quickly. I guess it couldn't hurt to give a try though to see for myself. Melatonin works very well for me for sleep, but I don't currently take it. I've read about 5-HTP, and the people at my health food store highly recommended it, but I didn't get it because it was expensive, and I haven't had good luck with any drugs that target serotonin (SSRI's). The drugs either didn't do anything at all, gave me weird side effects, or increase my anxiety ten-fold. I know serotonin targeting drugs and supplements can help with anxiety, but in my experience they don't. I just wonder if it is worth giving 5-HTP a try.
I'll definitely check that book out. My sis is attending Naturopathic med school in Oregon next quarter, and I think she may have that book. Thanks for all your info and input too.
Anyway, before I get too carried away on trying to be my own doctor, I am going to see an ND next week. :)
I currently take Natural Calm magnesium supplement. The majority of people are magnesium deficient (61% according to the USDA), and it really does help me. I've looked into the Valerian and hops combination, but I heard the Valerian loses its kick quickly. I guess it couldn't hurt to give a try though to see for myself. Melatonin works very well for me for sleep, but I don't currently take it. I've read about 5-HTP, and the people at my health food store highly recommended it, but I didn't get it because it was expensive, and I haven't had good luck with any drugs that target serotonin (SSRI's). The drugs either didn't do anything at all, gave me weird side effects, or increase my anxiety ten-fold. I know serotonin targeting drugs and supplements can help with anxiety, but in my experience they don't. I just wonder if it is worth giving 5-HTP a try.
I'll definitely check that book out. My sis is attending Naturopathic med school in Oregon next quarter, and I think she may have that book. Thanks for all your info and input too.
Anyway, before I get too carried away on trying to be my own doctor, I am going to see an ND next week. :)
The kava liver toxicity all involved people taking standardized kava except one -- there were actually only five people involved. So to avoid liver toxicity, you can take it in its traditional form. Eclectic Institute makes a capsule of kava in juice form, the way it was traditionally used. When you speak of kavalectones, that's standardized kava. I'm personally not afraid of it, but if you have any history of liver problems, just avoid the standardized version. However, kava alone may not be as strong as you expect, and herbs are best taken two to three times per day, not just once. They are food and have to be digested. They are also best taken in combination. For example, an anti-anxiety protocol might go something like this: kava or valerian or passionflower or hops or a combination, magnesium citrate, 5htp, taurine (the amino acid that makes serotonin in the body), some adaptogens, and perhaps some homeopathic remedies. If you see a naturopath, that's the kind of program he or she would devise, and then experiment with trial and error. They would also counsel therapy, meditation, exercise, and such. It's much more complicated than a magic pill. Try a book by Hyla Cass called Natural Highs; she's a psychiatrist at UCLA who uses natural remedies in her practice and discusses a good part of the universe of natural remedies for mental disorders. It's a good place to start so you have a better chance of success.
So, I had to see my doc again today to get a refill of clonazepam. I really didn't like how the last visit went, but I knew I needed a refill of clonazepam. I am weening off of it as I don't like being addicted to substances. She said that Budeprion may work for me, and I asked if she meant to say Buspirone (I've been doing my research). She said, yes, oops, that's what I meant to say. I kindly refused the prescription as I told her that I had kava kava, which according to the NIH can be as effective as benzodiazepines, and have similar effects as buspirone. I told her I was going to see an ND to discuss dosage and get recommendations on other supplements to take with it. She was very supportive and compassionate this time, and she treated me with respect. I think she was just having a bad day last time. She is just human after all, and we all have our good and bad days. I'm glad I don't have those negative feelings anymore towards her.
Here's what the NIH says about kava kava:
"Human studies have found at least moderate benefit of kava in the treatment of anxiety, and early evidence suggests that kava may be as effective as benzodiazepine drugs such as diazepam (Valium®). Kava's effects were reported to be similar to the prescription drug buspirone (Buspar®) used for Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) in one study."
Of course, they also mention the possibility of liver toxicity, but after researching it seems to me that liver toxicity was because a german company was using the whole plant rather than just the root. I'm not too worried about that.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/patient-kava.html
Here's what the NIH says about kava kava:
"Human studies have found at least moderate benefit of kava in the treatment of anxiety, and early evidence suggests that kava may be as effective as benzodiazepine drugs such as diazepam (Valium®). Kava's effects were reported to be similar to the prescription drug buspirone (Buspar®) used for Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) in one study."
Of course, they also mention the possibility of liver toxicity, but after researching it seems to me that liver toxicity was because a german company was using the whole plant rather than just the root. I'm not too worried about that.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/patient-kava.html
Apparently, combining the two is generally not safe. Good to know. I'll stay on the benzos for now.
http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/klonopin_d00197_kava_d04422.html
http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/klonopin_d00197_kava_d04422.html
So after experiencing benzo withdrawl symptoms, I don't think klonopin is a drug I want to stay on. It worked very well when I first started taking it, but I think I've already built a tolerance to it. I don't like feeling that I absolutely need something.
Would it be safe to lower my dose to .25 mg and make a transition to kava kava? Maybe start with 75 kavalectones per dose? Has anyone here tried this? Both medications act on the same receptors, and I know it can be dangerous combining the 2. I tried asking an M.D., but they have no clue. I think I will schedule an appointment with a naturopath as they probably have more knowledge about this. I find it sad the most M.D.'s don't have much knowledge about natural herbs. It would also help if my pharmacology book talked about this too. It's a very good book, and it mentions all the patented drugs that works on GABA receptors, but nothing about anything natural. Not much info online about transitioning from benzos to kava either.
I guess I will wait till I see a naturopath about this.
Would it be safe to lower my dose to .25 mg and make a transition to kava kava? Maybe start with 75 kavalectones per dose? Has anyone here tried this? Both medications act on the same receptors, and I know it can be dangerous combining the 2. I tried asking an M.D., but they have no clue. I think I will schedule an appointment with a naturopath as they probably have more knowledge about this. I find it sad the most M.D.'s don't have much knowledge about natural herbs. It would also help if my pharmacology book talked about this too. It's a very good book, and it mentions all the patented drugs that works on GABA receptors, but nothing about anything natural. Not much info online about transitioning from benzos to kava either.
I guess I will wait till I see a naturopath about this.
So, even though the kava kava helped the anxiety, I was still sweating a lot and I smell like chemicals even though I showered 3 times today. I thought I was just having benzo withdrawls, so I called the doc and got a few pills tonight. I took one a few hours ago, but I feel virtually the same and I am still sweating and smell. I feel really hot and feel almost like I have a fever, but I don't have one. It's not norma for me to sweat like this.
I would think that taking a pill would stop the withdrawl symptoms. No?
In other news, even though I felt like **** and felt like I shouldn't be on the road (I think I'd be safer driving drunk), I went to the grocery store and then cooked an amazing dinner. I think getting out and doing something as simple as buying ingredients is therapeutic. I also saw some friends at the grocery store which was nice.
I'm feeling a little better now, but wish I would stop sweating and stinking.
I would think that taking a pill would stop the withdrawl symptoms. No?
In other news, even though I felt like **** and felt like I shouldn't be on the road (I think I'd be safer driving drunk), I went to the grocery store and then cooked an amazing dinner. I think getting out and doing something as simple as buying ingredients is therapeutic. I also saw some friends at the grocery store which was nice.
I'm feeling a little better now, but wish I would stop sweating and stinking.
Again, we ALL have some things that are wrong with us physically, but until you decide to confront your anxiety, you are going to go round and round like this for a long time. For example, I have an extremely low pulse and when I get up I do get dizzy once and while...but that is just me. I went to the doctor and found out I was okay. You need to accept what the docs are telling you. Unless you are medical doctor, then you are not qualified to diagnose yourself...it sounds like you have been to the docs a lot. Regardless of where your anxiety comes from, you really need to confront it anyways and if you are not willing to learn and talk about it through therapy then there is not much to really suggest.
Work on accepting it and then I believe you will eventually be ready to confront it. I was like you for many months. I refused to listen to the professionals, I did not what to seek help, and I knew everyone was wrong besides me....keep working at it!
Work on accepting it and then I believe you will eventually be ready to confront it. I was like you for many months. I refused to listen to the professionals, I did not what to seek help, and I knew everyone was wrong besides me....keep working at it!
I bought some kava kava and took my first dose, and wow, it really does work. It makes me feel more tired than when I take klonopin (maybe the dose?), but I feel so much better. I was surprised at how fast it acts. I combined a kava kava stress relief tea tea with 30 drops of kava kava root, and it took effect very fast (10 minutes or so). I was told that kava extracts can vary in quality and effectiveness, and it's best to go with a reputable brand in liquid form. My health food store also had roots that you can combine with warm water or tea. This supposedly will give you the best effects.
I think a lot of supplements are bogus, and I was pleasantly surprised that this has taken off the edge.
I think a lot of supplements are bogus, and I was pleasantly surprised that this has taken off the edge.
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