Klonopin withdrawal and insomnia

[dvskitty]

I have been taking Klonopin for the past eight months.  I was up to 1 mg at bedtime, but have weaned down to ½ of a 0.5 mg (cutting down ¼ of a pill every week).  I am currently trying to take a ¼ of a 0.5 mg tablet, but am not having any success just taking the ¼ of the 0.5 mg tablet.  Last week, I didn’t sleep for two three nights, so I started taking ½ of a 0.5 mg tablet again, thinking that I needed an extra week for my body to adjust.  Again, this week I tried again, and on the third day of taking the ¼ of a 0.5 mg tablet, I didn’t sleep and haven’t slept for the past two nights.  I either just lie awake and toss and turn, or as I’m trying to fall asleep, I have these muscle jerks/jolts that wake me up.  I am currently seeing an acupuncturist and she gave me some natural pellets for stress reduction, so I take that an hour before bedtime and about 15 minutes before I take this chamomile/melatonin spray I bought at the health food store and spray the suggested amount at that time. I even have a CD for sleep that I listen to which seemed to help a week ago, but is not helping now.  I don’t know what else to do.  I was so desperate last night that I caved and got up and took another ¼ of a 0.5 mg of Clonazepam.  I need to get up early to go to work and I’m at a loss as to what else to do aside from taking a Tylenol PM, which several doctors have told me is not good to take.  I also am taking Zoloft 50 mg in the morning for anxiety/depression.  Is what I’m experiencing now withdrawals from the Klonopin and will it go away?  What else can I take to help me sleep while I’m trying to wean off this horrible med?

[fltricia]

How long have you been on Zoloft?  It can have some insomnia side effects.

Vistaril can help with sleep while you are weaning off Klonopin. Chamomile tea is great too!

[jakegorzen]

Vistaril "Hydroxyz HCL" will not do anything for sleep after you have taken a benzodiazapine.

If it does....its a placebo effect.
Have you tried Mellatonin yet?

[Paxiled]

What's the dose of the melatonin you're taking?  Try 1mg sublingual.  And you might want to try Calm's Forte, a homeopathic remedy.  But yes, you're probably suffering a withdrawal that hopefully will pass with time.  Although ssris like Zoloft can cause insomnia even years after you start taking it, it would be just too coincidental for it to happen at the exact time you're weaning off klonopin.  Don't worry if it's a very slow process, it's a tough med to wean off of, and safety is paramount.

[lynn57]

Sometimes insomnia is caused by the SSRI such as Zoloft.  I could not take it for this reason.  If I took an ativan at night I could sleep.  When I tried tapering down with the ativan, the insomnia returned.  The klonopin could have been masking the side effect from the Zoloft.  I would think about trying a different SSRI, with more sedating properties.

[RCA759I]

Doubtful that Klonopin alone is responsible for the effects you describe, particularly given the dosage, and the manner in which it was dosed (once daily, q.h.s.). Zoloft is an activating (stimulating) SRI antidepressant. In monotherapy (alone), insomnia would be a common adverse effect, as would restlessness and increased anxiety (Zoloft is not an anxiolytic, but will relieve anxious manifestations of depressive states). However, when taken concomitantly with Klonopin, these adverse effects are capable of being suppressed - counteracted as a result of Klonopin. Hence, if you began the two drugs simultaneously, your response to Zoloft alone would be largely unknown.

1/8 mg of Klonopin is a trivial dosage, and it should not pose much of an issue in regards to any significant withdrawal syndrome. Rebound insomnia is common if the drug was being used primarily as a hypnotic (of which it should not be used for). If the issue persists, 25-50 milligrams of Hydroxyzine Hydrochloride (Atarax) may be used with no risk of dependency. This is a potent antihistamine with a prominent sedative quality. If Tylenol PM worked well for you, you may purchase the hypnotic component separately, which simply consists of the antihistamine Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride (Benadryl). 50 milligrams is adequate. You do not want to take Tylenol PM on a frequent basis, given that the Acetaminophen component is hepatotoxic. Benadryl, however, may be taken for as long as required.

Ryan

[jakegorzen]

Sorry, in my previous post I meant to say "Have you tried JUST melatonin, without the chamomile"
Im asking the same question as Paxil, what is the dose of melatonin in your spray?

ALSO.
YES, that small amount the the poster is taking CAN cause a profound withdraw symptom..I know....My main dose of Klonopin was only about 1mg "0.5 X 2, only for about 3 weeks"
Then MYSELF tapered me "Because the Docs were reading the books, and though NO WAY could I have withdraw.
Well, I tapered all the way down to 1/8 mg once a day "Morning" and when I went CT..WAMMO...withdraw "Yes I know it wasnt my original condition...it was different"

Anycase......sometimes people are more sensitive to benzos "or any drug"..and it dont take much.

I still dont think Atarax would do much for you, and even if it did, its original effect would start to wear off after about a week or 2 of taking it.

[dvskitty]

The melatonin spray shows that the dosage contains 3 mg, but i rarely take the full dosage which is 6 sprays at once.  I usually take about 4 sprays.  I didn't take it last night and took 1/8 more of the klonopin, and I fell right asleep.  I did wake up 5.5 hours later, but I can deal with that more than just laying there initially for hours not being able to fall asleep.   That stresses me out more!  I am on 50 mg of Zoloft and have been taking it the same amount of time, about 8 months.  The thing is that I was on Zoloft before years ago and was on it for two years without any problems.  Not sure if my body has changed and now it's affecting my sleep, but I think it's more the Klonopin doing all the damage.  

Thanks for all your posts.  I think I will try weaning off 1/8 pill at a time.  Perhaps I need an even more gradual tapering schedule.  

[nursegirl6572]

I agree with Ryan's post 100%.  I think that a slow taper (Ryan can give you very accurate info on the best way to do this...his taper schedules are right on the money, and based on the fact that Klonopin has a looong half life, and builds up in the system.)

I also think that you should give OTC Benadryl a try...like Ryan said...50 mg once at bedtime is a typical dose for insomnia.  We use it in health care settings all the time with quite a good deal of success.

Whatever you do....do not mix several different sleep aids...even if they are OTC and/or natural supplements.  NEVER a good idea for several reasons.  One, there is the possibility of unsafe adverse reactions, and two...using more than one at a time...you will not be able to determine which was was actually effective.  And, just as an FYI...."natural" does not always equate to "safe".

Also, try adding exercise to your schedule in the evenings.  It is usually very helpful in battling insomnia due to the release of natural chemicals.

Best of luck!

[Merciey]

Hi, I take 2 mg of Klonopin at night and sleep fine, but if I try to go  off it, I get very anxious. Have you spoken to  your doctor or see a good Psychiatrist about the meds. My pharmacist told me to see an expert as my MD had me on some high powered stuff. Well I didn't go off anything and more was added but I am doing better now - so much better and have been on Klonopin for over one year - for panic attacks and anxiety. The herbal stuff wasn't strong enough for me and my situation. I hope you solve this soon as not sleeping is a "pain" but a good expert should be consulted and might be of some real help.

Mercy

[dvskitty]

I was doing fine tapering down 0.125 mg every 7 days, but once I got to a 1/4 of a 0.5 mg pill, I was having major muscle jerks and insomnia.  I guess since it's such a small dose, my body is really going through withdrawals.  I did well on taking an extra 1/8th of a pill last night, and not taking the Melatonin.  I did take a B complex supplement about an hour before bed, so not sure if that helped too.  

[Merciey]

Sorry I got your name ID mixed up. I'm at work so I just hurry and do a post inbetween the mundane stuff.  

I'm glad last night was better. I heard that Klonopin is difficult to go off, as I was thinking about it too, but I don't need panic attacks or really bad anxiety, so I just take what my Psychiatrist prescribes and we have long talks about the meds and how I am feeling, which helps too having some confidence in the necessity - at least in my life.

I do hope you can get better sleep. Have you tried meditating?

[dvskitty]

I really should try meditating and more exercising.  More then one person/doctor has told me that is key.  I think we are too quick these days to run to the bottle when there are other less synthetic options out there.  I am even trying acupuncture and it has helped me relax during the day and it has even helped with some ankle pain I have been dealing with.  So, I would recommend that too.   BTW, acupuncture is NOT painless.  It can hurt a bit, but it only lasts a second or two and the lasting benefits are worth it.  

wish me luck tonight and thanks!

[Paxiled]

The melatonin dose is probably too high.  1mg is a good dose.  Melatonin actually works better in studies at lower doses.  And it's not a natural remedy, just a safe one.  It's a pharmaceutical product that has been researched for decades, far more than most prescription medications.  The early tests didn't work, because the dosage was too high, so pharmaceutical companies forgot about it, then university researchers returned to it and found that it worked for people whose body clock needed resetting at lower doses.  And that dose keeps going down.  Also, they've still never found an amount of it that kills a rat, much less harms one.  As for mixing sleep remedies, that's true -- but you're not on a sleep remedy, you're on an anti-anxiety remedy.  If you were on Ambien, I certainly wouldn't recommend melatonin, but then, I wouldn't recommend benadryl then, either.  Remember, a lot of products called "natural" aren't really, they're just more natural than most pharmaceutical products because the body recognizes them, such as melatonin, which, because it is found naturally in the body, is well tolerated and easily used if the body thinks it needs it.  But it's still manufactured completely in a pharmaceutical lab, not extracted from a plant -- and the same is true with tryptophan, another sleep remedy that is found naturally in the body but the stuff we take is synthetically manufactured by pharmaceutical companies.  Now, go and do what suits you best.

[duane172]

If a Dr. were to ween you off Klonopin he couldn't go as low as 1/8mg. I doubt you are having withdrawl associated problems with the Klonopin.

If you have insomnia and was prescribed 1mg Klonopin and it was working why did you stop? What makes you say Klonopin is a "horrible med"?

I'm quite sure many would say Zoloft is a "horrible med". A host of meds could be described that way.

Anyway, i'm sure there is a better choice for a sleep med other than an anti-convulsive med like Klonopin.

[RCA759I]

"If a Dr. were to ween you off Klonopin he couldn't go as low as 1/8mg."

^quote

1/8th of a milligram is 0.125 milligrams, or 1/4 of an 0.5 milligram tablet. Since Klonopin is available in 0.5 milligram tablets, they may be cut into quarters. In addition, Klonopin Wafers are available in 1/8th milligram size.

-Ryan

[dvskitty]

I'm sure it is the withrawals.  When I wasn't on this med (or the zoloft), I had no problem with sleep.   I feel asleep within five minutes and slept soundly all night.  

Yes, I saw online that they have 0.125 mg wafers.  I might ask my pcp for a prescription because it's difficult to cut the pill to a precise amount every time.  

Last night wasn't one of my better nights, but it's weird b/c most sunday nights are my worst nights.  I slept pretty good on Saturday night.  Could it be the anticipation of having to go into work on Monday?  Probably!