OCD

[dtroy032]

I've heard and read up alot on OCD intrusive thoughts. Most articles always mention OCD as being fearful or evil thoughts. Example: fear of contamination or thoughts of hurting someone or doing something bad. Can OCD thoughts be something else besides fears or evil thoughts. Like something random that you obsess over?

[JGF25]

Agreed about hijacking the thread. I have obsessive compulsive disorder...not anxiety disorder.

[Paxiled]

I think you misunderstood my post.  I am also a long-time anxiety sufferer, and all the thoughts you mention are those suffered by everyone with an anxiety problem.  It's not that your thoughts or mine are different than those other people have, it's that we get caught up in them and interpret them -- it seems automatically -- as extremely threatening.  My only point is that OCD is a different problem than the one you have, and the non-medication therapy for it is quite different.  The medication therapy is the same, but medication doesn't solve these problems, it just makes them less bothersome.  Which is often all you can do; therapy and coping mechanisms often don't work.  My point is on the repeated, over and over, mention on this forum of people who keep saying they have OCD when to me they really don't, and it becomes important when you go see your CBT therapist or other therapist and tell them you have OCD and they believe you and waste time deconditioning you from actions when it's how we react to thoughts that has become the problem.  I also have a problem with the term "intrusive" thoughts, because everyone has them, we all had them before we ever got our anxiety problems.  I've been a scholar and a writer and a musician, and in every case I had intrusive thoughts that didn't bother me in the slightest and led to much creativity.  In fact, without intrusive thoughts that came from seemingly nowhere creative people would never do anything.  It's being terrified by the thoughts that is what plagues us.  But Paxil withdrawal gave me OCD, which I never had before, and it is a very different creature than just having thoughts that frighten me.  Now, I think we've belabored this way too much, but the main point  I often try to make here is to avoid getting too carried away with the labels psychiatrist put on you.  These diagnoses come largely from manuals designed to decide what drug to prescribe and how to bill insurance companies, not to tell anyone what the best treatment is.  Many drug companies have gotten new FDA approvals for OCD to extend their patents, but the drugs were already being used for that purpose.  Some of these drugs have horrible side effect profiles or drug interactions, such as Luvox and clomipramine.  But psychiatrists, generally not being curious people, prescribe them as if that FDA approval actually means something about that drug vs. some other drug that is being used for the same purpose even though it doesn't have explicit FDA approval for it.  Just know that my purpose here isn't semantics or pure argument, it's so that people who post on here can better advocate for their own best interests and avoid suffering because I was a fool and didn't bother to learn this stuff and just let psychiatrists do what they did and the consequences weren't pretty.  Peace to all, but we really need to put an end to this horribly hijacked thread.

[dtroy032]

Thanks again for your opinions. Its nice to know something works.

[JGF25]

This is my take on it and I'm sure you will disagree.  I have had OCD since I was a teenager.  Yes I did have a checking problem at one point but what makes Pure O different than other obsessive intrusive thoughts is that we think things that stay around like "what if I just go blind while I'm driving?"  "What if I kill my husband and really don't mean to?"  "What if I become so debilitated that I can't drive to work and then how am I going to make money?"  "What if I simply can't drive anymore?"  "What if I pee my pants in public?"    I can't even remember most of the things I have gotten hung up on.  These thoughts do not help with creativity or philosophy or help to create new ideas.  The order is this....we think the thought, the thought makes us anxious, we try to counter the thought by testing sometimes, and then we are back at the thought.  Only when we find some sort of closure, which often times is a replacement thought, do we move on.  In my case I don't believe you treat the anxiety.  You treat the underlying cause which in my case is the thought which leads to the anxiety which when left untreated leads to depression.  I have been on this rollercoaster for a very long time.  I was on meds...off meds...back on meds.  I have to say, that I am a much happier person on meds.  They work for me...Thank God.  
In the end I know what I have, I know what needs to be treated first, and medication does work.  

[Paxiled]

This discussion confirms the reason I spoke up about OCD.  This is one of the controversial diagnoses in mental health because it was not invented by psychologists but by pharmaceutical companies trying to extend patents on old drugs.  You can call it anything you want, but it's important to understand that everyone, absolutely everyone, has "intrusive" thoughts.  Anxious people.  Not anxious people.  Everyone.  It's how we react to them that is the issue, not the thoughts themselves.  There would be no creativity or philosophy or any new ideas without "intrusive" thoughts.  It's just that, when we weren't suffering from anxiety, they didn't bother us, they intrigued us.  After we got our anxiety disorder, they often became frightening.  Medications can also cause obsessive thinking.  But the treatment short of medication, meaning therapy, is a lot different for OCD than what you folks are calling Pure O, which is present in every mental disorder and in everyone without one from time to time.  OCD is treated by desensitizing one to the compulsive behavior with the theory that once one realizes you don't have to do the compulsive behavior you'll stop having the obsessive thoughts.  That's the theory, anyway.  With this thing you're calling Pure O, the therapy is the same as for any anxiety disorder -- desensitize the obsessive thinking.  I'm sticking to my view here, but in the end, as I said before, these labels don't really matter most of the time -- if you don't have compulsive behavior, the treatment is going to be the same for all obsessive thinking that bothers us, which is to try and find something that relaxes our minds.  Which is much easier said than done.  Frankly, I get weary of these labels meant to sell drugs or to get reimbursement from insurance companies rather than to find some real help for us.  So there.

[nursegirl6572]

Yes, that's what someone with Pure-O does.  Of course, you need a professional to officially diagnose you, but it sure sounds like that could be what you're contending with.

[dtroy032]

Thanks for all replies. I had never heard of pure O. As for the compulsive part of it, although it is not physical I find ways to "ritualize" with my thoughts.

[JGF25]

I disagree Paxiled.  I have OCD and I have Pure O OCD in that my OCD is based in irrational intrusive thoughts.  I have no compulsive behaviors whatsoever.  That is why it is called O - Obsessive  C - Compulsive   D - Disorder.  You can have one component or both but you still have OCD.  

[Paxiled]

Exactly my point -- it isn't OCD.  I guess we have to call it O.  

[nursegirl6572]

There is a form of OCD called Pure Obsessional OCD (or  "Pure O") which involves the obsessions without the physical compulsions.

Here's a couple of articles:

http://www.ocdonline.com/articlephillipson1.php

http://www.socialworktoday.com/archive/070212p22.shtml

[Paxiled]

My understanding on this subject differs from Nusegirl.  OCD traditionally at least isn't intrusive thoughts, it's obsessing to the point of performing repetitive behaviors -- it's not just obsessive thinking, it's also compulsive behavior.  If you're just having obsessive thoughts, you don't have OCD, you have anxiety or depression.  Not that it matters -- you still feel lousy -- but the techniques for treating compulsive behavior are much different than those used for just obsessive thoughts.  The reason this diagnosis has become murky is our old friend the pharmaceutical industry, which often gets patents extended on older drugs by getting FDA approval to use them for OCD, which leads to more diagnoses of OCD where it doesn't exist.  I know this not just from research but from personal experience -- anxiety gave me obsessive thoughts and so did antidepressants, but after Paxil withdrawal I developed OCD, and it's quite a different bird.

[dtroy032]

I do think I have the symptoms. If obsessing about the same bad thoughts all day long isnt OCD idk what is. I did post there now thank you.

[nursegirl6572]

Yes, intrusive thoughts can be of any nature.  Typically, they are fear-based, but not always.  Are you experiencing OCD like symptoms?  Have you seen a professional?  I would recommend posting on our OCD community, you will probably relate more to the info there.

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Obsessive-Compulsive-Disorder-OCD-/show/231

Good luck!