The "Truth" about Panic Attacks: What I believe

[DragonTU84]

Hey all. It has been awhile since I have come to this forum, but like many of you, I used to come here complaining of all of the physical symptoms associated with Panic Attacks and Panic Disorder. However, one day desperate for answers I came across this website, and it described EVERYTHING to the "T." The website link is:

http://www.panic411.com

It is not like your typical Panic Attack website. Most will describe Panic Attacks as the "Sudden onset of Fear followed by a certain number of physical symptoms," however, this website states otherwise.

This website claims a theory towards Panic Attacks and what it calls: "The Two Fears." Basically, the "first fear" or first symptoms bring on about the "second fear." The FIRST Fear it explains are completely PHYSICAL/PHYSIOLOGICAL in origin, meaning that the initial thought that the FEAR was the main cause and underlying factor of Panic Attacks is NOT the case. Moreover, the Physical Symptoms are the FIRST AND FOREMOST symptoms of a Panic Attack, and can, but not always, lead to the "Second Fear," which is when the person begins to PANIC / have FEARS of death, heart attacks, dying, strokes, seizures, etc. all based on the PRIMARY PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS which first develop.

From my experience with Panic Attacks and with ALL of the symptoms I have had to endure, this definately seems to be the case. So why is it that doctors then target the "FEAR" rather than the "Physical Symptoms" which cause us to go into fear or Panic in the first place?? It is because that is all they know, and it is up to us to bring it to light that it is in fact the Physical Symptoms that they need to be targeting, not the Fear in and of itself. It is the physical symptoms which causes the fear, and it becomes a recurring cycle because we begin to FEAR getting the Physical Symptoms in FEAR it will become something worse, only causing the PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS to reappear (not the fear) and then followed by Panic. But I, as many of you, have had such "physical symptoms and sensations" where I was completely calm and relaxed the whole time, because I did not let the PANIC, or "Second Fear," kick in.

The website goes more in-depth into the different theories and terminologies, and how they believe there is an imbalance or disruption in the Autonomic Nervous System which causes these attacks: mainly the physical symptoms which lead to the later FEAR and PANIC.

It also addresses the issues for those of you, like myself, who have had adverse reactions to SSRI's. Since SSRI's are stimulants, and focus primarily on stabilizing mood, it does nothing for the PHYSICAL SENSATIONS themselves, and since it itself is a stimulant, for many people it can actually make the PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS WORSE, rather than improve it as so many doctors believe. Although since MOST people seem to benefit from a combo. of an SSRI and a Benzo., doctors continue to prescribe SSRI's as a "cure-all" drug for Panic Disorder and Panic Attacks, when it is NOT. I was on an SSRI, actually tried 2 (stopped the second after the first day). Sure, it improved my mood and made me not AFRAID of the physiological/physical symptoms I had to endure, but it sure as HELL made my symptoms 10-fold, and made new symptoms I would have to endure appear: electrical surges up and down my spine and through my brain, feelings as though I would go into convulsions, strokes or seizures but never did, and then the withdrawal symptoms from quiting it COLD TURKEY (hey, don't blame me, blame my GP) only made those symptoms 10-fold once MORE!! I had all the symptoms above, along with leg tremors, numbness, my entire brain feeling like it was PHYSICALLY going nuts (not emotionally), limbs going numb and UNABLE TO MOVE, while my brain felt like it was going to go into a mini-stroke or seizure, ya name it.

So I too, like many of you, found it hard to believe the simple denomination that it was the "FEAR that caused the physical symptoms," and I discredited a LOT of the usual treatments out there for Panic Disorder and Panic Attacks. The website goes on to describe how Benzodiazephines, the drugs that most doctors and psychiatrists try to steer away from, are actually one of the BEST treatments for Panic Attacks/Panic Disorder, and it has helped to bring my life back greatly!!

It also briefly mentions Beta-blockers, but I am on a combination of a beta-blocker and a benzo, and I have found those to do me wonders!!! I no longer get the leg tremors or numbness sensations; I sometimes get chest pains but I know what it is caused by (stress and anxiety/panic), so I take a tylenol and it cures it; I may get a passing lightheadedness or feelings of a panic attack coming on, but it usually passes; ya name it. I even went 2-3 months without panic attacks at ALL, but a recent traumatic experience has caused SOME of those problems to resurface, but TIME and the medicine seems to be doing the trick, and just learning to ACCEPT the physical symptoms and learn to live with them and over time they too will dissipate. Constantly living in stress and fear will only make them WORSE, and it will not solve anything.

Just give the web-site a try, if you want. For me, it gave me a whole new outlook on myself, on the medicines doctors prescribe for me for my Panic Attacks (since I KNOW that SSRI's had an adverse reaction to me, but I didn't know WHY), as well as many other questions you may have that can be answered. Just see if it helps you the way it helped me.

Good luck to you all!!

~Crystal P.~

[iamfaithful]

Wow, thanks for the information.  I am going to look up the website and see what it has to say.
I must agree with you that I never started having panic attacks until I first started having the symptoms.  After the symptoms didn't go away and I was checked out by my Dr then I started down the road to anxiety.  I too am on a beta blocker and benzo, but haven't taken the benzo in a few months now.  
I was wondering about taking tylenol with the rest of my meds.  I am so fearful of interactions I won't even take anything anymore; however, my Dr. said I could take tylenol.  I took it once and was so afraid, but it was fine.  I just need it sometimes for headaches and such, but have been just too afraid to take it.  I used to pop tylenol/advil like it was nothing!

[DragonTU84]

Well, the Panic/Fear is the secondary symptoms to the physical symptoms of a panic attack. So is the name "Panic Attack" truly proper for the entire list of sensations we feel during one of these "attacks?" The only reason that it is called Panic Attacks and Panic Disorder is due to the fact that the symptoms LEAD to the fear and panic that is visually present in patients suffering from this disorder. Since it is the FEAR, not the physical symptoms, that the doctors, etc. see, and all the tests continue to come back negative, they deduce it down to the name "Panic Attacks" since certainly enough, the person APPEARS in a state of fear or panic. Instead of questioning the physical symptoms, they push that aside and say it is the FEAR that is causing the physical symptoms, not the physiological/physical symptoms causing the FEAR. That is how they came up with the "theory" that the body is inaccurately reacting in a "fight or flight" response, based on the sole fact that most patients seemed bewildered, shaking, and panicking about the PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS they were exhibiting.

[DragonTU84]

And for proof of my theory, while in a chat room one of the chatters started complaining of entirely physical symptoms....that all mimicked the exact same physical symptoms associated in a Panic Attack. I talked them through it, but the only thing THEY were concerned about is how long the physical symptoms would LAST. I asked them about their sleeping habits and if they consumed caffeine, and sure enough they had a HORRID sleeping schedule and consumed VAST amounts of caffeine. I told them to GET MORE SLEEP and STOP the caffeine all together. It lasted maybe 20-some minutes, but the person never felt any fear or apprehension, mainly just the physical symptoms and concern for them. They didn't go into the "Second Fear," or the FEAR and PANIC that sets in that something horrid is happening. This DISPROVES the theory that it is the FEAR and PANIC that leads to the physiological/physical symptoms. Rather, this proves that it is vice-versa, and that the Fear and Panic does NOT have to be present during an attack.

[DragonTU84]

Sorry for the triple-post, but I had to post this. In fact, I QUESTIONED them if they felt any fear, apprehension, etc., and the person calmly said "no." Their chief concern was relieving the physical sensations they felt, and they calmly did everything I told them....deep breathing and relaxation exercises, etc., until it eventually passed completely.

[DragonTU84]

BUMP!! I think more people need to read this.

[numbercruncher]

Thank you for your post.  I went to the site and  I am very interested in the research.  The information kept me busy for most of the day.  The part about the CCK is most interesting.  I did a little research and it is found in the gut and the brain.....has something to do with gaba also.   If you find more information.....I for one would like to see it.

[K2S]

Thank you for the link!

I am happy to read your posts and to find out that my own opinion, based mainly on logic, is on the right track.
I thought that SSRI are not good solution for panic attacks, I was unable to see enough logic in this after reading about them. I thought the right thing is to use benzodiazepines and eventually beta-blockers and I was ready to ask my doctor for them.
It is true that fear activates the sympathetic system and this NORMALLY results in rapid heart rate, chest pain, etc. But this is NORMAL even in situations where most people are OK. Some people are simply more sensitive to this and can react sharply when exposed to their fears (especially if they have phobia), so it is true that fear causes anxiety, but soon the parasympathetic system normally turns our body back in normal condition. I've always been more emotional, worrying and sensitive than others. But this wasn't a panic disorder! The problem is when we start (and I started) to become aware of the constant physical symptoms, to worry because of them, to think whether or not they are coming, to develop fear of them. And this is the point where panic attacks start - because of the physical sensations and our worries leading to more-than-usual anxiety level.. and more continuous. I think two of the worst symptoms that make us crazy are the palpitations and chest pain. So when the heart's response to this is 'blocked' by beta-blockers, it is not so sensitive to the adrenaline, so we have lower heart rate which shouldn't be so scary. In other words, we don't have enough reasons to panic and the anxiety is kept at least in tolerable limits that anyone experience in some situations, and we can calm down fast and easily. And benzodiazepines helps us to do it, (making us even careless to some degree?), so maybe we won't even think whether we'll have panic attack or not. In short, double effect - on both sides, which maybe should improve the condition with time...
I haven't tried any medicines yet and my condition is not so bad, I am doong it by manipulating my thoughts and cognitive therapy.

And again, this is only my own opinion for panic attacks by looking at myself and others, thinking about the anxiety disorder and investigating it.

Now, I am going to read the site.
All the best wishes and excuse me for my bad English. :)

[K2S]

In addition, my problems started the same way: at the moment when I was in my relatives' appartment. I drank some wine and we talked about diseases and nervousness. Alcohol increases heart rate, you know... I got anxious and started to worry about my heart rate and physical symptoms.. it was hell. This was the point where I developed my fears, my anxiety increased and I started to have some panic attacks.

[john4321]

www.near-death.com can help. there is vast amount of spiritual knowledge on this site . edgar cayce the famous physic once said if you accept ur situation in life an no longer fight it sometimes spontaneous healing can take place.

search the site for diseases,prayers,etc ... i think with our higher mind we could subdue the fear of lower animal mind.

[john4321]

unconcious mind is our other "brain"..it affects how we behave,our emotions,fear,etc...

some cultures have chanting techniques like hare krsna , etc...it is called mantra meditation and mostly based on names of God. Theory is God is absolute so he is non different from his name and constantly chanting his name purifies the mind or overrides all lower negative vibrations...

[DragonTU84]

Thank you for your response K2S, and I am elated to hear that my thoughts are not completely off-the-wall. Yet my cognitions and based on my personal experiences, I just found it impossible to believe the original notion that it was the FEAR that caused the physical symptoms and panic. As I had stated before, there were times where my "attacks" were completely physical in origin, whether it would be chest pains, heart palpitations/increased heartrate, lightheadedness, for me also the head electrical sensations (when on and getting off Zoloft - hence the reason SSRI's don't work).

I was talking with my Psychiatrist today about this, and he agreed whole-heartedly with me, and when I questioned him about there possibly being some link between an imbalance in the autonomic nervous system (instead of the parasympathetic one most doctors believe), also referred to as Dysautonomia, and Panic Attacks/Panic Disorder, he informed me that "EVERYONE who has Panic Attacks has a messed up Autonomic Nervous System." This was the FIRST Psychiatrist that I have EVER heard to link Dysautonomia/an imbalanced Autonomic Nervous System with Panic Attacks and Panic Disorder. I was quite pleased with the new Psychiatrist, and am going to continue seeing him.

When I also told him about my reaction to SSRI's, he completely understood and agreed to my reaction to them, instead of shunning it away. He said, "well in the long hull of things most people benefit from the SSRI range of Anti-Depressants for Panic Disorder and Panic Attacks, but in some cases this can actually cause the opposite, and the drug can instead exacerbate the physical symptoms much like you said," instead of giving me a puzzled look which most Psychiatrists and Doctors did when I even MENTIONED this fact to them.

So not only this website proves it, but my personal experience along with the words and advice of my Psychiatrist proves the link between dysautonomia, panic attacks, and the adverse reactions of the SSRI drugs and its treatment for Panic Disorder and Panic Attacks and the reason why it does not always work.

He also tended to correlate the two: the physical symptoms and the panic, as two separate entities to the disorder, instead of saying the FEAR caused the PANIC, which is what most doctors believe. He agreed with me that the benzodiazephine coupled with the beta-blocker was the best treatment for the condition, since he explained that the beta-blocker targets the physical symptoms whereas the benzo targets the chemical imbalances that cause the panic and fear symptoms to aggravate.

So, it just goes to show you that my theory cannot be completely off. In fact, I think there is more truth to it that most doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, and psychotherapists need to look into and consider, given the number of complaints of mostly PHYSICAL/PHYSIOLOGICAL symptoms rather than the FEAR itself.

[ichabodcrane]

I totally agree with you, from the begining of these attacks I have felt there was something physical causing them.  I had panic attacks for 2 years and got control over them myself.  I hadn't had them very often for 3 years until I fell, I've always thought my fall had something to do with getting the attacks. After my fall the attacks would come on all of a sudden and I can't control them, and with my attacks I had 4-5 years ago they would only come on in public places and I could get control over them.I get a tingling sensation whenever I have pressure on my tail bone, and then the attack starts.  No one has listened to my concerns about that, and I've been telling them this for 5 months. I'm going to show my father and doctors that website, because they are trying to make me think it's an anxiety disorder when I know it's not. Thank You!

[DragonTU84]

Bumping this up again. It helped to open the eyes of one individual, which I was very elated to read....it turned her life around once she realized what her problem really was, faced it, and she also read my story. She knew she was not alone, and she left her abusive ex and all because of this. So I am hoping this can help you as much as it helped her....also read "My Story" for my story on my panic attacks and panic disorder.....you think you have it bad? You have no idea...

[JSGeare]

One of the most credible statements I found on the site was this:

"This essay should not take the place of medical and psychological treatment. Individuals who believe they may have panic disorder should be evaluated by a physician familiar with the complexities of panic disorders and the conditions that mimic or accompany them (some of which are discussed herein) and should receive an appropriate combination of pharmaceutical and psychological treatment from qualified caregivers specialized in this family of conditions."

Makes sense to me!

[gothic]

i have read everything about the ssri meds and benzos and ever since i was about 9 years old and i am 24 now i have struggled with wether or not to take meds i finally took myself off all my meds 4 years ago and it was a big mistake i am homebound and can not litirally do anything but stay home i am scared of everything i cant drive or even be in the living room when my husband opens the front door so i am taking a deep breath and trying the meds i think for some people they do need to have them i know not taking them isnt working atleast when i was on them i could take my little girl outside in the yard to play and we didnt live with the blindes closed all day so i am gonna take my prozac and sometimes the ativan cause it makes me sleepy lol and hope for the best

[mystruggle]

if you got real balls. in which when it comes to this stuff alot of us don't cuz it's scary BUT!

have someone drop you off without a cell phone, a benzo, water or any money in a mall about 50 miles from your house. it's called flooding. eventually you would make it home! and would be desensitized to almost all of your fears.

i wouldn't suggest this without first learning some CBT and relaxation techniques that stop the escalation of panic attacks though....

i'm a tad too scared to do it...but it works. there is a clinic in mass. that does it and it cure agoraphobics in 3 days. it's nuts.

you just get to a point were you so damn scared, it don't matter anymore cuz u get the point finally in your head that it won't kill you or hurt you.

like i said...balls though.

[gothic]

omg omg i would DIE lol just reading that made my skin crawl o i have been asking the same question over and over again on this site with no reply do u think u can help me it about ocd and tourette

[mystruggle]

gothic,


i see you have alot going on. i would not suggest you trying anything without talking with your doctor. you have agoraphobia and need to get into therapy and keep up with any meds your doc has prescribed you. the opposite of "flooding" is baby steps and desensitizing yourself to feared places. the meds will help, take it slow and give yourself credit for even the smallest accompolishments. try to stay as positive as you can. you can overcome this! it can be done! it has been done by many! it takes practice and patience, good therpay and CBT and finding the right meds for you. i think a phone support group for agoraphobics would  help you alot. check them out online or something. you need to know you are not alone. stop being a victim and start being a survivor in your mind! keep trying till you get where you want to! there is always hope!

Jay

[mystruggle]

to gothic again.

oh yea....i think your doctor can help you with OCD and tourette's. no one on a message board is going to give you the magic answer. we offer support and suggestions. a Doctor will help you with everything else. there is good medications that help. talk to your doctor about luvox. i have a friend on it that has OCD really bad and panic and he finally!!!!! took his dr.'s advice and is on it and he is back to normal life now. he's also a fellow alcoholic. so he has had alot to deal with too. if he can do it. so can you!

Jay

[gothic]

ty for your response it has been helpful  and i am going to keep trying to reach mt goal which is happiness

[DragonTU84]

There is a known link between people suffering from Tourette's and OCD. It is very possible the very reason you are suffering from your OCD is in part due to having Tourette's Syndrome. While Tourette's is not curable, it is treatable (if severe enough) and there are good meds for it out there. However, OCD IS curable. OCD, much like Panic Disorder, is a Psychological Disorder, unlike something such as Epilepsy which is an inherited Neurological Disorder. These mood-altering disorders CAN be treated, and even some can be rid of completely. A good Therapist along with a Psychiatrist can help you to overcome your OCD. Much as it is with Panic Disorder, you obsess or think too much about what you are doing, and it eventually becomes habitual, much as it is with Panic Attack and Panic Disorder sufferers, since we too "worry" or "think" too much and come to FEAR the physical symptoms associated with the disorder that it becomes a chronic condition, then becoming a full-blown disorder. We become in constant fear of the physical symptoms, leading to more occurrences of Panic Attacks, and you become so obsessed/compelled to the tasks you are obsessing over (whether it be how obsessively neat your room is, washing your hands multiple times or whatever the OCD case may be), it can be cured. Your mind has become accustomed to these tasks that it becomes something you MUST do. In order to rid yourself of it, along with a specialist you have to learn that you do NOT have to do these repeated tasks to be accomplished.

In the short end of things, learning to accept who you are and that you are a sufferer of Tourette's is what will really help you to be happy and be accomplished in life. It is not going to kill you, nor is it going to make your life less fulfilling. It is just a part of you that you will have to accept, and as I stated there is medication to treat the disorder. And also learning to have a more positive attitude on life will help you during your treatment for your OCD and power in overcoming it. I wish you the best of luck.

~Crystal~

[mystruggle]

i dont have ocd or tourette's. i think you're talking to someone else. gothic or someone..

i'm the panic attack dude, that is about to smash this disorder forever, day by day!

;)

[DragonTU84]

Sorry, I meant Gothic. So Gothic, that note was for you. Sorry MyStruggle, please disregard my last comment. >_<'

[DragonTU84]

There is a known link between people suffering from Tourette's and OCD. It is very possible the very reason you are suffering from your OCD is in part due to having Tourette's Syndrome. While Tourette's is not curable, it is treatable (if severe enough) and there are good meds for it out there. However, OCD IS curable. OCD, much like Panic Disorder, is a Psychological Disorder, unlike something such as Epilepsy which is an inherited Neurological Disorder. These mood-altering disorders CAN be treated, and even some can be rid of completely. A good Therapist along with a Psychiatrist can help you to overcome your OCD. Much as it is with Panic Disorder, you obsess or think too much about what you are doing, and it eventually becomes habitual, much as it is with Panic Attack and Panic Disorder sufferers, since we too "worry" or "think" too much and come to FEAR the physical symptoms associated with the disorder that it becomes a chronic condition, then becoming a full-blown disorder. We become in constant fear of the physical symptoms, leading to more occurrences of Panic Attacks, and you become so obsessed/compelled to the tasks you are obsessing over (whether it be how obsessively neat your room is, washing your hands multiple times or whatever the OCD case may be), it can be cured. Your mind has become accustomed to these tasks that it becomes something you MUST do. In order to rid yourself of it, along with a specialist you have to learn that you do NOT have to do these repeated tasks to be accomplished.

In the short end of things, learning to accept who you are and that you are a sufferer of Tourette's is what will really help you to be happy and be accomplished in life. It is not going to kill you, nor is it going to make your life less fulfilling. It is just a part of you that you will have to accept, and as I stated there is medication to treat the disorder. And also learning to have a more positive attitude on life will help you during your treatment for your OCD and power in overcoming it. I wish you the best of luck.

~Crystal~

[DragonTU84]

This is again for you... "The Truth about Panic Attacks - What I believe. Please follow the link and read through it and let me know what you think. I take it to heart.....as it has helped explain my EVERY symptom, why SSRI's didn't work for me and I instead had and adverse reaction, and why Benzo's did so wonderfully for me coupled with a beta blocker (but beta blockers do not work for everyone as SSRI's don't always work).

~Crystal~