hey

[nateTHEgreat]

     As you all probably know by now I am withdrawing off Ativan(What a horrible pill) I am tapering at a rate of 5%/week and I am getting Tinnitus,Depression,becoming antisocial, lightheaded, feelings like I am almost out of my body... Should I cross my Clonazepam 0.75mg twice daily over to Valium, man is this hard....  I was told by a Pharmacist that the Clonazepam(Klonopin) should buffer the Ativan withdrawl, I just want off the Ativan F#%^ SAKE....


                                                     Take Care sorry for the blow up at the end there.....

                                                               These pills are horrible, I used to think I was

                                                      a smart person, but a smart person would have done research

                                                             on these pills I never did I trusted a doc, now I fear the worst

                                                                 Insanity or death....................................... or permanent brain                                                  damage ....

[nursegirl6572]

I know you are having such a rough time, and for that I'm sorry.  Your pharmacist was right...the Klonopin should really help with the Ativan w/d's.  As to the Valium?  Valium and Klonopin are BOTH long-term benzos....so unless the Klonopin really isn't effective for you...I can't see a major benefit to switching.

Have you tried posting in the substance abuse forum?  They have some GREAT tips on how to get thru benzo w/d's...things you can do to ease the symptoms a bit.  

Unfortunately...you are going to be uncomfortable for a while...but it will gradually start improving.  I know you're frustrated, and I don't blame you...I would be too.

Lastly....no...this will not harm you, or cause any kind of permanent injury.  Just temporary discomfort.  Try to be patient and hang in there....it really WILL get better, I promise.

Try the S.A forum....they have some awesome suggestions.  You may be pleasantly surprised!

Hang in there, nate.....I'm feelin for you!  :0(

[nateTHEgreat]

  Thank you I just hope I will make it through this wow is this hard!!! Like I have mentioned so many times....  Lol Thank you for responding.... It's just hard when you get put down your whole life, Made fun in school, beaten on every day by your brother, 14 years old get put on Paxil which was just in my experience a horrible drug.... Your parents divorce when you are 14... You are adopted when you are 10 months old and you have a feeling of being abandoned, so when your parents divorce you feel a sense of abandonement again.... All of this "S#I&" you turn eighteen you end up in a psych ward because of OCD you get tested for Schizophrenia which comes back negative.....  After you get out of hospital you feel better on a low dose of Klonopin 0.5mg twice daily and 20mg of Celexa... You go see a Psychiatrist who is super nice, every time you are not comfortable on a med, you are taking off no questions asked...
You have a gambling addiction(which I overcame) you get off the Celexa because you have a fiancee and cannot achieve erection, so you go off it(I never had a problem getting off SSRI's never)... So you go back to your doctor, he puts you on Ativan as needed with the Klonopin because of horrible Anxiety Attacks and you end up worse than you have ever been in your life.....  Wow(sorry for venting) Now you look at your friends living there lives and you envy them......  I am also on he fence in believing in god, I prayed to him to get on the right meds......  I guess those prayers fell on deaf ears.... I am so worried that the withdrawl is going to get bad and I am goign to end up in a mental asylum........


                                      Take Care       Nate(+)

[RCA7591]

Nate,

Here is an abstract of the prescribing information for Ativan/Wyeth:

"In general, Lorazepam should be prescribed for short periods only (e.g. 2- 4
weeks). Extension of the treatment period should not take place without
reevaluation of the need for continued therapy. Continuous long-term use of
product is not recommended. Withdrawal symptoms (e.g. rebound insomnia) can
appear following cessation of recommended doses after as little as one week of
therapy. Abrupt discontinuation of product should be avoided and a gradual
dosage-tapering schedule followed after extended therapy.

Abrupt termination of treatment may be accompanied by withdrawal symptoms.
Symptoms reported following discontinuation of Lorazepam include
headache, anxiety, tension, depression, insomnia, restlessness, confusion,
irritability, sweating, rebound phenomena, dysphoria, dizziness, derealization,
depersonalization, hyperacusis, numbness/tingling of extremities, hypersensitivity
to light, noise, and physical contact/perceptual changes, involuntary movements,
nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, loss of appetite, hallucinations/delirium,
convulsions/seizures, tremor, abdominal cramps, myalgia, agitation, palpitations,
tachycardia, panic attacks, vertigo, hyperreflexia, short-term memory loss, and
hyperthermia. Convulsions/seizures may be more common in patients with preexisting
seizure disorders or who are taking other drugs that lower the convulsive
threshold such as antidepressants."


That's one hell of a list, man. However, the manufacturer clearly states that long-term use of the product is not recommended. While I'm sure your physician has access to the same information provided above, he/she apparently did not inform you of the hazards involved with this drug.

The unfortunate situation here is that the Ativan was combined with another high-potency Benzodiazepine, Klonopin. Not only does the simultaneous use of a short and long-acting Benzodiazepine render the long-acting Benzodiazepine useless due to the development of tolerance, the two drugs have very little in common as far as their clinical effects are concerned.

Ativan primarily targets GABA1, while Klonopin primarily targets GABA2. GABA1 is the major inhibitory neurotransmitter of the central nervous system - it acts on the limbic system to produce hypnosis, sedation, anxiolysis, and skeletal muscle relaxation. GABA2 on the other hand acts more like a sympathetic inhibitor. That's why Klonopin is used to treat panic disorder (it inhibits the sympathetic manifestations of panic). Klonopin has strong anti-panic and anti-convulsant properties, while Ativan has strong anxiolytic properties and anti-convulsant properties.

Klonopin isn't going to help with the symptoms of Ativan withdrawal, as Klonopin acts on a different subunit of GABA. Klonopin also lost its efficacy. The pharmacist is wrong. The one thing that Klonopin will offer you is protection against seizure.

Here's what to do, under the supervision of a medical doctor:

(1) For your sanity, reinstate the full dosage of Ativan.

(2) Transition from Klonopin to Valium. Valium has high affinity for GABA1, just as Ativan does. The Valium will help you get off the Ativan.

(3) Once the transition to Valium has been made, immediately step out the Ativan in 0.25 mg increments and replace it with a dose equivalent of Valium (2.5 mg)

Here are the examples:


*Klonopin to Valium* (assuming dosage of 0.75 mg, b.i.d.)
_________________________________________________

Weeks 1-2: Take 0.5 mg of Klonopin and 5 milligrams of Valium morning and nightly.

Weeks 2-4: Take 0.25 mg of Klonopin and 10 milligrams of Valium morning and nightly.

Weeks 4-6: Take 10 milligrams of Valium, t.i.d. (three times daily) - spaced 8 hours apart.

Stabilize on Valium 10 mg, t.i.d. for one month.

*Stepping out the Ativan* (assuming dosage of 2 milligrams)___________________________________________________

Note: Your afternoon dose of Valium 10 mg is not altered during this transition. It will be altered at the end. The morning and night doses have been compensated for below...

Weeks 1-2: Take 0.75 mg of Ativan and 12.5 mg of Valium monring and nightly

Weeks 2-4: Take 0.5 mg of Ativan and 15 mg of Valium morning and nightly

Weeks 4-6: Take 0.25 mg of Ativan and 17.5 mg of Valium morning and nightly

Stabilize on Valium 20 mg, 10 mg, 20 mg for two weeks (50 mg total). After two weeks, take 15 mg, 15 mg, and 20mg.

*Tapering off of the Valium* (the moment you've been waiting for, and it's only a year away!)
___________________________________________________________________________

Weeks 1-4: Remove 5 mg from the nightly dose, and take 15 mg, t.i.d.

Weeks 4-6: Take 15 mg in the morning, 12.5 mg in the afternoon, and 15 mg nightly

Weeks 6-8: Take 12.5 mg in the morning, 12.5 mg in the afternoon, and 15 mg nightly.

Weeks 8-10: Take 12.5 mg, t.i.d.

Weeks 10-12: Take 12.5 mg in the morning, 10 mg in the afternoon, and 12.5 mg nightly.

Weeks 12-14: Take 10 mg in the morning, 10 mg in the afternoon, and 12.5 mg nightly.

Weeks 16-18: Take 10 mg, t.i.d.

Weeks 18-20: Take 10 mg in the morning, 7.5 mg in the afternoon, and 10 mg nightly.

Weeks 20-22: Take 7.5 mg in the morning, 7.5 mg in the afternoon, and 10 mg nightly.

Weeks 22-24: Take 7.5 mg, t.i.d.

Weeks 24-26: Take 7.5 mg in the morning, 5 mg in the afternoon, and 7.5 mg nightly.

Weeks 26-28: Take 5 mg in the morning, 5 mg in the afternoon, and 7.5 mg nightly.

Weeks 28-32: Stabilize on 5 mg, t.i.d.

Weeks 32-34 Take 5 mg in the morning, 2.5 mg in the afternoon, and 5 mg nightly.

Weeks 34-36: Take 2.5 mg in the morning, 2.5 mg in the afternoon, and 5 mg nightly.

Weeks 36-38: Take 2.5 mg, t.i.d.

Weeks 38-40: Take 2 mg, t.i.d.

Weeks 40-42: Take 2 mg in the morning, 1 mg in the afternoon, and 2 mg nightly.

Weeks 42-44: Take 1 mg in the morning, 1 mg in the afternoon, and 2 mg nightly.

Weeks 44-48: Take 2 mg, b.i.d. (morning and nightly)

Week 48: The morning dose is discontinued

Week 50: The night dose is discontinued

Week 58: Desmethyldiazepam has left your system and can no longer be measured in the urine. You are now 100% free of BDZ's.



Ryan