naturally controlling adrenalin

[workhater]

After reading some posts here, it seems that most of my sympoms are caused by adrenalin rushes. I was prescribed a beta blocker to relax my heart from the adrenalin but after reading the possible side effects, I have not taken it. Is there anyway to control this naturally, as I would imagine that over time this could really cause some problems.

[canihelp]

Ryan, sounds like you know your stuff!  One beta blocker you left out though that I've taken for years with no side effects (in lower doses) is Sectral (acebutolol).  200 mg twice a day.  I'm now at 400 morning & 200 mg night.  But it has done the best for me as far as no side effects.  I also take Klonopin when needed for PVCs- -when that adrenalin just gets too excited!

Have you ever tried or heard good results from Lexapro to prevent adrenalin rushes?  Although I'm not depressed my internal dr. thought it might raise my serotonin level & give my total body a less sensitive nervous system. - - to lower the PVCs.  What do you think

[RCA7591]

What beta-blocker were you prescribed? What is your resting heart-rate and blood pressure? What is your heart-rate and blood pressure during an "attack"?

Are you on any anti-anxiety medicine?

Long-term use of beta-blockers carries a few risks, but ultimately, they are quite safe.

Risks:

-Development of type II diabetes
-Development of autoimmune and vascular disorders (Raynaud's), and positive ANA finding
-Development of Asthma (for non-selective beta-blockers)
-Loss of sympathetic stimulation and heart failure (extremely rare)
-1st degree heart block or mild bradycardia (pulse slightly lower than 60 bpm at rest)
-Loss of exercise tolerance (due to lowered pulse)
-Weight gain
-Dependency

For anxiety and control over the autonomic nervous system, the non-selective beta-blockers work better than the cardio-selective types, as they target all beta receptors.

Inderal (Propranolol), Corgard (Nadolol), Coreg, and Blocadren (Timolol) are examples of non-selective beta-blockers. These have a wider side effect profile.

Tenormin (Atenolol) and Toprol (Metoprolol) are examples of cardio-selective beta-blockers. These have less side effects, as they chiefly target the myocardium.

If you suffer from many cardiac manifestations of anxiety (palpitations, premature beats, extrasystoles, bounding pulse, tachycardia, elevated BP), a combination of a non-selective beta-blocker (such as Inderal) and a Benzodiazepine (such as Klonopin) will help tremendously. Typical starting doses are 20 mg BID for the Inderal, and 1/2 mg BID for the Klonopin. The two drugs not only prevent recurring attacks, but work in concert to decrease autonomic hyperactivity when an attack does occur.

-Ryan

[workhater]

I was prescribed a low dose of atenlol but again never took it ( worried about ide effects) The problem is that my symptoms sometimes seem to mimic hashimoto thyroid disease. One of the many doctors said that I definately have hashimotos but not to the point of needing treatment yet. Could all these different symptoms be caused by chronic anxiety. I do have good reason for anxiety ( major job stess) but I also have some OCD going on and these weird things obviously dont help. I was prescribes Lexapro and took it for three days unitl I woke up in the middle of the night with an ridiculous panic attack. That was it for that stuff. The urgent care doctor seemed pretty sure about the beta blocker, but almost too sure like almost not really thinking about it. Am I just second guessing too much. I mean the beta blocker atenolol will protect my heart from the adrenaline, but how about just trying to slow down the adrenaline, wouldnt that be better. It amazes me that anxiety could possibly do all these things.I always think the doctors are kind of blowing me off and not really checking too well. I had to practically beg the dr. for a treadmill test to double check the ekg. I am 43 years old now and probably its not a bad idea anyway. Anyhow he said ok and then told me that his was scheduled as well. What the hell is that? I'm the on with the rapid pulse and extra beats!! Anyway you guys seem really knowledgable and I know not to listen to alot of the people here, so I appreciate the info.

[canihelp]

The beta blocker does reduce the adrenalin.  That's its job.  Don't give up on the first one you try either.  insist they give you a low dose one!  Like I said before Sectral works real good for me, but find what works for you.  Don't be so afraid of beta blockers.  They are generally not dangerous like anti-arrythmia meds can be.  (especially in low dose).  And you really might need an "as needed " klonopin or something like that to take when you feel panic coming on.  Us that are posting have been through the ropes.  22 years for me.  
Read some books on Panic also.  Claire Weekes is a great author.  You really must be active in your own recovery.  You can do it!!

[workhater]

OK, I want to run a list of symptoms by you guys and if you have the time I would really appreciate the input. I just need to know if this can be caused by chronic anxiety and OCD. Long winded, but here goes: Years ago, maybe 15 or so I went through some tough things and that started it all. I would lose weight, have hot flashes and rapid heartbeats. Go to docs they do ekg say everything ok and give me xanax. Years to come same thing, several trips to docs same results. Sometimes diff. meds like effexor, lexapro, muscle relaxants, etc. Next is chronic headache for a coupe of years, dr. blowoffs until I insist a neurologist. he gives me elavil and does some labs. Elavil helps with the sleeping and the headaches. However his office finds something in the labs and the refer me to a rheumotologist and endocrinologist. Now way more stress and they wont tell me what for and the appts. arent for two months!! Anyway, apparently I have an antibody that is called antiphospholipid and is sometimes associated with Lupus! More stress, but that doc said that he didnt feel that I had lupus. ok , but during this time I have more rapid heartbeat stuff and my face now turns red and hot from flushing sometimes!! Ok the endocrinologist is checking for thyroid problems. He says that I definately have Hashimotos hypothyroid but not to the extent of needing and treatment yet. Maybe later in life!!  Now i have a constant pressure in my chest and go to urgent care. Ekg normal but labwork show a high hemoglobin and hematocrit  reading which could cause blood clots and they say take aspirin and follow up at pirmary care dr. He sends me to hematologist that takes another 6 weeks who does a blood test that is normal. Maybe I was dehydrated or something. So now I have still the tightness in chest for about two months, flushing of face sometimes, headache once in a while, but now I feel almost trembly inside, not that can be seen only a feeling, slightly lightheaded, and really anxious or something, hard to explain. Almost like when you havent eaten in awhile and get kind of shaky. I dont know what the heck , but can all of these specialists be wrong or is it really just me and the chronic anxiety. They seem to dismiss me so easily, that I think either they really know what they are doing or just dont really care to dig to far or bound by the insurance. Please adivise you are way more helpful then my docs. By the way, I stopped with the elavil because I think that it was causing me to urinate alot and that actually may have caused the dehydration. Sometimes I still urinate alot ( isnt that a symptom of diabetes as well as the shaky feeling??

[RCA7591]

You just provided the answer, a positive Antiphospholipid Antibody finding. Your doctor is correct that is can be associated with Lupus, but it can also be associated with more common Hematological abnormalities, which apparently have been overlooked.

Your problem is most likely: HYPERCOAGULABLE STATE, which predisposes you to embolic type phenomena (recurring headaches) and an elevated risk of venous thrombosis. Anxiety usually presents secondary to this disorder. Tachy blood would also result in the cardiac manifestations that you mention, and would occur in paroxysms (attacks).

The elevated Hemoglobin and Hematocrit confirms the diagnosis. I would also suggest the following work-up (to be performed by a Hematologist), as this work-up will narrow down exactly which disorder you have:

-Factor X
-Protein C
-Protein S
-Antithrombin III
-Anticardiolipin IGM, IGG
-APC Resistance
-Prothrombin Gene Variant
-MTHFR Gene Variant A1298C
-Hemochromotosis Gene Variant C2827
-Hexagonal Lipid Neutralization
-Homocysteine Level
-Platelet Aggregation Studies
-Prothrombin Time, INR
-Ferritin Level
-Antinuclear Antibody Titier w/ Pattern (ANA)

Once the Hematologist figures out which gene mutations are present, he will either prescribe a blood thinner (Coumadin, Plavix), or "blood letting" on a periodic basis. The blood thinner will reduce the coagulability, and blood letting will restore a normal iron/Hemoglobin/Hematocrit count. Alone or in combination, these treatments will improve your symptomatology.

The elevated Hemoglobin and Hematocrit is also suggestive of POLYCYTHEMIA VERA, which may be primary or secondary. The more common secondary cause is SLEEP APNEA. And lastly, you may have HEMOCHROMATOSIS (iron overload).

All of these disorders progress slowly, and usually manifest themselves into early or mid adulthood.

I would refrain from using Elavil (Tricyclic), as it increases the odds of venous thrombosis with this condition. I would also refrain from using any beta-blocker, as they can intensify autoimmune disorders (ie: the positive Antiphospholipid finding). They are also associated with a positive ANA finding.

Take all of your abnormal findings to a good Hematologist, and you should have your diagnosis.

-Ryan

[workhater]

ok thanks Ryan, I have an appt. with the Dr. this week and I am going to print your suggestions out and run it by him. I'll let you know. Thanks again.

[erasto]

In your response to workhater you said "The betablocker does reduce the adrenaline". However reducing the adrenaline secretion is not the same as reducing the effect of adrenaline that is already present in the blood. I think this was what workhater meant. Is it not possible to supress the secretion of adrenaline instead of preventing its effects on cardiovascular system?  Is there any method for this?  

[ni123]

hi for the last 4 weeks i have suffered from pulpitations everyday, other symptoms i have had is tingling in fingers bad head aches cant go near strong smells mke me dizzy light is really wow noise im sensitive to and my adrenilin keeps going up through the roof hot flushes some days cant get out of bed feel like i have bug diorrea, dizzy heart pounds really ill, i also get cramps in my legs i dont feel myself at all. Doctor says anxiety gave me beta blockers 10mg 3 times a day im scared to take them because of side effects, is there any other solution? i need an answer quick i have to children to look after and i feel like no energy all the time very agravated easy to.