quick sharp pain with overwhelming sensation?

[BTOWN]

hello all this is my first post... i am 24 and i guess u could say i am healthy but a little overweight.... i train MMA(mixed martial arts) and i have a serious question.

I was in 11th grade when this happened. i was laying in bed one night and all of a sudden my heart did this trippy skip of a beat. i jumped up out of bed and ran to my mother saying whats wrong with my heart!! ahhhhhh!! she said i was fine..... after a while i didnt notice them any more. then after maybe 2 and a half years i got really bad panic attacks and got scaared and went to the doctors. the doctor diagnosed me with mitral valve prolapse. i was a little releived after that. then i got over anxiety as a whole for a long time.. but in between that period of time i did construction and i noticed it alot then...THE QUICK SHARP PAIN that feels like a skipped beat and i get this overwhelming sensation on top of it. those have been happening since and its been years now.

Now they happen when my heart rate gets up high from running or jump roping or when i train for that matter....it used to be just out of no where when i would be sitting there... basically i am petrified that it means something is wrong and my body is warning me of a heart attack or something. im young! i dont want to die! so does any one have any idea what this could be?

i went to my doctors yesterday and i explained this to him finally(since i barely just got health insurance for the first time in almost 4 or 5 years)and he says he is sending me to a cardiologist. and by the way it also happens when i go in the ocean or a pool or when its hot. just like my run in the hills with my team last saturday. it was tons of incline and when i was walking it off IT HAPPENED... TWICE! bu dum bu dum bu dum bu dum BAM buh dum buh dum buh dum buh dum buh dum buh dum BAM1 ya it happened twice. and also i get anxiety on top of exercise whenever i do decide to work out.... can that harm my heart? i know this was long and i seem nuts but any one.. if you have the knowledge or are for certain u have an idea of what this is please talk to me

btown

[BTOWN]

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

[RCA7591]

My advice:

Go see a Cardiologist and have a complete cardiac work-up consisting of an EKG, Echo, and Nuclear Stress Test. Provided those tests are normal, and the structure of your heart is normal, you are having premature contractions (PAC's or PVC's). In a structurally normal heart, they are harmless unless they occur in the tens of thousands/day.

PVC's are a common problem. They can effect anyone, at any time, without regard to age, gender, etc. They are anxiety provoking, and it is important not to develop a fixation on your heart. They are benign, but are the leading cause of anxiety disorders (panic disorder, cardiac neurosis, avoiding exertion).

Mitral Valve Prolapse is also benign, but it can only be identified by an Echo. So unless you've had an Echocardiogram, MVP cannot be diagnosed. There is a strong connection between MVP and anxiety disorders as well, and again, it is important not to develop a fixation on your heart.

See the Cardiologist. If he finds no abnormalities, drop the issue, and move on with your life. Stay away from the internet, and do not research your symptoms. PVC's do NOT cause heart attacks. There is no need to stop exerting yourself. Exertion is good for you.

Furthermore, cardiac pain is not "sharp", it is "dull", "crushing", or "heavy", and occurs in the center of the chest (not off to the left).

-Ryan

[be still my beating heart 13]

Ryan has given you such great advice!!  It's actually great advice for me too, as I have been having those "extra" beats for almost 3 years now, and only recently developed what I call a painful pressure-filled beat.  It is totally unsetteling to say the least, but I can speak from experience that the more you think about them happening the more of them you will get, and if you can manage to ignore them, the less they occur.  I too get them during the cool down after exercise, and while swimming.  In fact the first time I ever felt my heart have an irregular beat was while surfacing from a dive to a depth of about 25 feet.  I have already done as Ryan suggested and had an Echo, Stress Test, and over 20 EKG's and have been told by my cardio not to worry that they are PAC's/PVC's and will not harm me.  I hope you recieve the same diagnosis and can begin the daunting task of ignoring these irritating, and sometimes painful :-( , heart rhythms.  Good luck to you!

[zen11]

HI,

Once the doc finds out your ok, check out the Anxiety and Phobia Workbook by Edmond J Bourne.  It has a section on Deflating the Danger.  It explains all the common anxiety symptoms and defuses the danger associated with them.

[BTOWN]

thank you guys soooooooo much!!!!!

so basically its just a painful irregular heart beat?

[be still my beating heart 13]

Yes exactly!  To some it's painful, other can just feel an extra thump, or a skipped feeling, and some experience many in a row.  Every time your heart beats an electrical current is traveling through it that causes the chambers to contract.  What we experience is one of the chambers contracting out of turn either in the atria (top) or the ventricles (bottom), hence they are called Premature Atrial Contractions, Premature Ventricular Contractions, AKA PAC's/PVC's.  They are fairly common in anxiety disorders.  Barbarella responded to one of my posts concerning "extra" heart beats and stated that she has experienced them for 45 years!!  I've only had them for just over 2 years, which seems like much longer, and I can't imagine what it's like to live with them for that long, but I hope to find out!  :-)  Please keep your appointment with your cardio, get checked out, and if they say you're fine like the probably will, you can begin the process of trying to live with them.  I think of them as an unexpected houseguest that's taken up residence!  I hope this helps you and that you felt better today!  Good luck at the dr!

[RCA7591]

"so basically its just a painful irregular heart beat? "

Yes. But you should still undergo a complete cardiac work-up for piece of mind.

-Ryan

[BTOWN]

cant anxiety eventually over the years cause me to have heart problems in the future?

[RCA7591]

"cant anxiety eventually over the years cause me to have heart problems in the future? "

Absolutely NOT.

-Ryan

[Raine9]

You had your MRI already right?  How did it go?  Is everything alright?  You don't have to respond if you don't want.  I understand it's a personal matter.  But I was just thinking about you. Hope it went well.

[BTOWN]

ok... well i know u said not to reasearch but i had already knew about this so i would like you to check it out....... http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/arrhythmias/a/PVC.htm

basically what i want to know is if i have pvc's (among many others) does it mean i have heart disease? it seems if thats what the article(that i posted above) is trying to say . but i dont know maybe i dont get it. some places are saying if u have shortness of breath alot its a sign of heart disease.... gosh.. is it? and another thing.... like i said ryan i train mixed martial arts so i am getting the best and intense most vigorous workout u could imagine and i exercise often and during the day i just feel like shat. and it says that fatigue and lethargy is a common symptom of heart disease..and during the day (while driving, since i have a mobile job)i am just always soooooo tired... i always wake up in the middle of the night too. they say that waking up alot in the night is a sign too.... gosh i am freaked.. i know i know i am paranoid.... but you help me alot man and i hope u continue to do so and next week i go to the cardiologist so u wont have to hear my whining much longer. sorry man i have such a fear of dying. and sheesh i am a christian. i sound retarded

[RCA7591]

It is impossible for me or anyone else to establish whether or not you have heart disease over the internet...only the Cardiologist can make that determination.

Having said that, PVC's can occur in persons with and WITHOUT heart disease. The latter outnumbers the former. EVERYONE experiences PVC's, the problem is that some notice them more than others. And for those select few who do, they tend to obsess over them. Obsession and anxiety trigger your "fight or flight" responses, dumping Adrenaline into your system, INCREASING the frequency of the PVC's. Therefore, it is important not to worry about them. Worrying makes everything worse.

Chronic worry leads to *Asthenia*, a syndrome where the symptoms are out of proportion with any clinical findings. Such symptoms are always psychogenic in nature, and consist of shortness of breath, fatigue, a fear of exertion, and other irrational thoughts which are fueled by anxiety. "Fear of death" is a common presentation, it is a panic reaction.

IF you had any significant heart disease (doubtful), you would be unable to compete intensely in martial arts. You would become lightheaded, experience angina, sweating, flushing, and other cardiac manifestations which would severely limit the amount of exertion you could do. These are not vague symptoms, they are severe.

Let us know how the Cardio appointment goes. In the mean time, try and get your mind off of the PVC's. No more researching your symptoms!

Avoid triggers if possible (Caffeine, Nicotine, "energy drinks", decongestants, and other such stimulants).

Take care,

Ryan

[BTOWN]

ok u got it i wont research them any more. and about saying i wouldnt be able to do mixed martial arts...... i am usually gassed really quick after the first 15 minutes. but usually that includes the warm ups and my crazy coach pushing us. like i said we ran in the hills and i seriously was huffing and puffing sooooo hard.... but that doesnt mean i have cardiac problems right? it means i am still a little out of shape?  i hope so. but like u said u cant say that i do or dont over the internet. i jump rope on my nights off that i train and i hope that helps my heart. is heart disease reverseable? im sorry i ask alot of questions ryan. u just take the time to respond and it gets me stoked so i feel comfy talkin your head off hahahaha. but any ways its 10 30 here...... is it too late to jump rope if i am pretty tired?

[BTOWN]

and p.s.  i do sweat alot when i train and i do get lightheaded when i train.... and what is angina?........

[RCA7591]

PS:

Sorry for the typos. It's 2:30 in the morning!

[BTOWN]

its ok man dont be sorry your great man. my wife gets pissed at me too for worrying so much.and any strategies on not getting anxiety during training? i am douing good with the whole not being attentive to my heart beat. i am doing real good with not paying any attention to my heart beat.

but any thing i can read on conrtolling my thoughts? and being normal again?

and i take fish oil every day is that ok?

[RCA7591]

Mixed Martial Arts would make most anyone "gassed" pretty quickly (but it sure will get you into shape). I highly doubt that it points to heart disease. My bet is that you're slightly out of shape. Only a Cardiologist can make that determination.

Certain forms of heart disease are reversible or partially reversible. WHY are you WORRYING about heart disease? I hope the Cardiologist puts you mind at ease.

Sweating during training is NORMAL! Lightheadedness is subjective, and can be an anxiety reaction. It can also occur is your overexert yourself. Angina is cardiac pain, or pain with a radiation pattern to the left neck/jaw/arm. It results from Ischemia (lack of blood flow/oxygen to the heart).

Notice how your symptom profile has expanded since your initial post. First it was PVC's, and then the PVC's progressed to shortness of breath, lightheadedness, sweating, fatigue, etc. You're reading too much, you are already thinking about the worst possible outcome. This is a bad train of thought, and you need to work on this. Stop worrying about every vague little symptom!

Let's leave it at this until you have the Cardiac work-up. I'm sure you'll do just great! After you have the work-up, definitely post back with the results.

-Ryan

[RCA7591]

Strategies on not getting anxiety during training?

You would have to pinpoint the exact cause(s) of the anxiety. For example, is it a fear of physical exertion? Fear of the coach constantly breathing down your neck? Anxiety is normal to some extent (ie: the crazy coach). Anxiety to some extent is a normal part of life, often times unavoidable. Everyone experiences anxiety to some degree. It is only when anxiety takes control over your lifestyle that it becomes a major problem.

As for controlling your thoughts, again, you would need to pinpoint what exactly is bothering you, and take it from there.

No problem on the Fish Oil!

-Ryan

[BTOWN]

i mainly think think what bothers me is before i even get to training, i start getting worked up thinking.." uh oh my heart rate is gonna get real high and i get anxiety on top of the cardio wont that cause a heart attack?" then i constantly check my pulse during training then i think my heart rate is too high then it actually does get higher because i get anxiety from checking my pulse....


and one last question,..... when my heart rate is super high....... from training.... and i get anxiety on top of that cardio... is it dangerous? or could cause heart problems?

[RCA7591]

Elevated heart rate during cardio is completely normal.

Target heart rate = 220 - your age x 85%

220-24 = 196 bpm (your maximum heart rate)

196(0.85) = 167 bpm (your target heart rate)

Anxiety on top of the cardio work-out will not increase the risk of heart attack, although it may increase your pulse by a trivial amount. It is best not to check your pulse (as you already know it will be accelerated, which is normal). Pulse checking is obsessive behavior!

NO, anxiety isn't dangerous, and it won't cause heart problems.

Perhaps you could speak with the coach about your concerns. I'm sure he could offer some reassurance. He could explain the benefits of the cardio workout, and explain how it correlates with heart rate and fitness. After all, he IS there to help.

-Ryan

[BTOWN]

ya im not really checkin my pulse any more. its just scary but that helped alot man

and like i said sorry for constantly worrying... u gotta realize i know i am going to get help soon and just sitting here waiting for my referal in the mail is just making it worse.

i have a question(as usual)...... i was just sitting here on the comp this morning... i had my fish oil a multi vitamin and anti biotics(anti biotics due to getting staph from dirty mats, yes i know, gross).. im just sitting here and my heart did that stuff...... my thing is, you said in an earlier post that anxiety can aggrevate PVC'S but i wasnt even worried about a thing and my heart just spazzed out and felt like it was skipping beats(but 2 in a row) and then i can feel it causing an adrenaline surge. like my heart beat is fine, and then when it happens my heart beat gets faster and races. its calm now..... but basically what i am trying to say (i meant to ask you earlier) is how are we sure its PVC'S? im alot less worried, trust me... i just cant control asking questions when i am sitting here waiting and waiting and waiting for the referal.. i know you cant diagnose me..... but you basically already have....... so i ask you are you sure these are just benign PVC'S?

[be still my beating heart 13]

I am sorry to butt in here but I think I might be able to help you.  I know how frustrating the waiting game can be!  I have gone through this many times myself, just a few weeks ago actually!  Your best bet is to remain calm!  PVC's, benign or not, WILL increase with excess worry.  I speak from experience.  Just a month ago I had gotten myself into a constant state of anxiety and panic because I had convinced myself that I had a life threatening arrhythmia.  One day I had over 100 of them and that night I finally called an ambulance and went to the ER! (Without insurance! )  But you know what?  As soon as the ambulance arrived at my home they stopped, and I never had another one the ENTIRE three hours at the ER!  They did 4 chest X-rays, a chest CT scan, a twelve lead EKG, and had me hooked to their heart monitor that was a continuous EKG as well.  They found NOTHING wrong with my heart at all!  I was so pissed!  At first I was mad at them for not finding out what was wrong with me, and then a few days later I turned that anger on myself for making myself so sick with worry.  I know now that the reason they disappeared when the paramedics arrived is because I finally felt safe knowing that someone who could save my life was with me.  I have gone to the ER for anxiety and it's related symptoms 11 times in seven years, and have been seen by 2 differnent GP's and had a full work up by my cardiologist (echocardiogram, stress test, one month event recorder, etc).  And after all of this they have found absolutely nothing wrong with me and have gone so far as to say that if anyone SHOULDN'T worry it's me, because I appear to be in perfect health.  I have had PAC's/PVC's for almost three years now, and through trial and error I have found and eliminated many things that trigger them.  Refined sugars of all kinds (High Fructose Corn syrup, especially), caffine (this includes tea, coffee, sodas, Mt. Dew, chocolate, energy drinks, etc.), heavy meals, meals with high MSG's (ie. Chinese Food), and inactivity.  I find the more I am inactive the MORE PVC's I have.  I think it's because along with inactivity comes an increase of the adrenaline level in our bodies, creating stronger symptoms.  And above all, when you find your mind is stuck on worrying about the PVC's, DISTRACT yourself!  Journaling and drawing help me alot, but others here on the forum say that reading an inspirational book, watching funny movies, listening to upbeat music, taking long leisurely walks, talking on the phone, or even playing solitaire are great ways to distract yourself.  The point is to engross yourself so deeply into something that you don't have a chance to think of your symptom and you'd be suprised to find after a few hours that you haven't felt funny the entire time.  Don't get me wrong, it is hard work, and takes a while to get good at distracting yourself, but with practice you'll see it really does work!  I have been following these rules and have gone from having between 50-100 PAC's/PVC's per day, down to having one or two a day with a few days here and there where I have NONE!  I hope this helps you, and wish you luck at the doctors!

[BTOWN]

p.s. and another thing.... its so hard to distract my self. it feels like someone took a knife and stab me in the chest. basically u guys say that some people notice them and some people dont. well it hurts enough to take my mind off everything. no joke. so thats why i wanna know if i even have pvc's

[be still my beating heart 13]

What were you watching on TV?

[BTOWN]

see the thing is..... how are we sure i am having pvc's? cuz i had no anxiety today at all, wasnt even thinking about the pvc's and it happened. and i am actually on here right now because i i was laying down watching t.v. and then this really sharp pain just hit my chest real hard and quick and it shot this warmth through my whole body with a hot and cold flash and it was crazy..... does that mean its pvc's?

[be still my beating heart 13]

I asked what you were watching because I can no longer watch supsenceful or upsetting TV shows or movies because my adrenaline level is already so high that my body cannot handle the adrenaline dump from the "imagined" threat.  And to honestly answer your question about how do we KNOW you have PVC's, we can't say for certain that it is what you are experiencing, only your doctors can order the tests needed to determine if what you are feeling is a benign or life-threatening arrhythmia.  I went back to the top and re-read your original post where you stated that you have been diagnosed with Mitral Valve Prolapse, and I have come across it's symptoms many times in my symptoms searches.  What you are experiencing sounds like it's related to that.  Please go the the link that I have pasted here and tell us what you think.  I hope this helps.

http://www.wright.edu/nursing/practice/mvp/default.htm

[BTOWN]

ok ill check it out... and if i have a life threatening arrhythmia does it mean i could drop dead any day?

[wmac]

I know what your saying you sound like me. Its weird I have seen cardio after cardio and I have had all the test mri, tilt table, several echos, several tread mill test, two epstudies, But the intresting thing is I have never had a thallium stress. intresting uh. I have nonsustained vtach, pvcs, pacs, svt had ablation for dual av node. So I often wonder if they missed something by not having the thallium test. And even today each and every palp or run of nsvt scares me to death. I cant get over the fear.
wmac

[be still my beating heart 13]

I see alot of myself in you BTOWN!  As I've said I have had a very thorough cardio workup, and been seen in the ER many times while I was "symptomatic", and even tho I've been told by every doctor I've seen that I am fine and in no danger I still worry that the pvc's will kill me!  But deep down I know that mine are anxiety related.  For example I have not had ANY pvc's for the passed two days but since I've been thinking about them because I'm trying to help you I have had about 3 today.

I noticed that you mentioned you are waiting on a referral, and I am assuming this is to a cardiologist.  I recently played the waiting game myself and can speak from experience when I say that you REALLY need to control your responce to the pvc's or you'll just make them worse.  I allowed my fear to overwhelm me so much that I became convinced I was going to die any moment.  And the moment I accepted that my heart was responding to the adrenaline I was continuously dumping into my system the frequency of them reduced drastically, from 50-100 per day everyday for almost two weeks to 1-3 a day with a few pvc-free days in between in the matter of a month!  It takes a little while for your adrenaline levels to fall back to near normal so be patient and remain calm!  I worry about you so much because I have been EXACTLY where you're at.  I had made myself so sick with worry (literally "scared to death", or so it felt) only to be told that I was fine and then felt so let down by my doctor's and finally feeling like a fool when I realized that I was only making my anxiety symptoms worse.  I still wonder if my doctor's have failed me by missing some problem with my heart, but what possible good can come from worrying?  More pvc's???  Be calm and wait for your doctor's appoinment.  If you can't wait for that then you'll probably end up in the ER and I hope you have good insurance.  Good luck to you!

[RCA7591]

"  Be calm and wait for your doctor's appoinment.  If you can't wait for that then you'll probably end up in the ER and I hope you have good insurance.  Good luck to you! "

--end quote--

Wow, talk about a pessimistic outlook. You are certainly not doing this young man any favors by telling him that he'll "probably end up in the ER". Rather than reinforcing the fact that Premature Ventricular Contractions are a benign entity, you are propagating hysteria. In return, all contributors in a thread such as this one feed off of the hysteria, and the end result is a worsening of the condition, or the continual need for reassurance from all of the participants involved. The cycle repeats over, and over, and over again, while the psychogenic aspect remains unchanged or untreated. This has been demonstrated on the heart support forum time and time again.

50-100 PVC's/day cannot even be expressed as a whole percentage, and barely as a fraction of a percent of the total daily heartbeats. A NORMAL person can expect to experience this frequency of PVC's in a given day, if not more. 1-3/day is not even worth commenting on.

You've had a complete cardiac work-up (which was wise), yet you continue to have doubts are worry excessively that the doctor may have missed something, despite the fact of having a negative work-up. Therefore, your problems are not cardiac in origin, they are psychological in origin. Cardiologists and ER doctors do not treat psychological disorders, psychiatrists do. However, repeated trips to the ER will eventually buy you a ticket to the psych ward, and 2 mg of IV Ativan.

The idea here is to reduce autonomic hyperactivity, which increases the frequency of PVC's if they are do to a psychogenic origin. Inappropriate release of endogenous catecholamines (the body's adrenaline reserves), as seen in anxiety states are the culprit. Therefore, reducing anxiety is key. A long acting Benzodiazepine such as Klonopin is the front line treatment for anxiety presenting with cardiac manifestations. Typical dose is 0.5 mg, b.i.d

As an addendum, a cardio-selective beta blocker is often of significant benefit. Beta blockers block the effects of catecholamines on the myocardium, thereby reducing the frequency of PVC's (if the PVC's are aggrevated by anxiety). A typical beta blocker would be Atenolol, 50 mg, q.d

The combination of a long-acting Benzodiazepine and a beta blocker is often very successful at treating both the anxiety, and the PVC's that result from it.

I would suggest getting to the heart of the problem (no pun intended), by obtaining a referral to psychiatry, and getting on with your life. There is nothing physically wrong with you.

-Ryan

[rasticle]

I have a couple of ER docs in my family.  I have horrible anxiety and I'm ALWAYS asking them about my anxiety symptoms.  They have both told me that almost everyone experiences PVCs or PACs, just some people are more intune with their body and can notice them.  They are common.  One piece of advice that they have given me is that someone who isn't a doctor shouldn't look up health issues on the internet.  If you aren't a doctor then lack the ability to use the information you find on the internet in the correct context.  There are so many variables with diseases and EVERYONE is different.  If you HAVE to look stuff up, make sure it is one a peer reviewed or government website.

I had a holter monitor a few months ago that said I was experiencing heart block.  Well that scared the hell out of me.  I started looking stuff up and I got even more worked up.  Called my cousin who's a doc and she said it was probably nothing, usually in a 26 year old heart block is nothing.  But thats not what I saw on the internet.  It could be caused by underlying heart disease, like coronary artery disease.  I was sent to a cardiologist.  Guess what?  Turned out to be nothing and my cousin could just tell me that over the phone without seeing anything.

Sorry about the rambling, just had to share my story.

[debaser23]

This has been an interesting read, for sure.  I'm not a mental health professional of any kind, but I can tell that BTOWN has some pretty serious anxiety issues at least for the moment.  I remember when I was sick to my stomach all the time and scared to take my meds.  I was doing the same thing he is...constant questions.  I'd space it out over a bunch of forums, though.  This one, two others, and even Yahoo Answers!  haha.

Hysteria's a good word for it, although I don't mean that in a condescending sense.  Like I said, I've been there.

A cardio workup seems like a must-do.  Oddly enough, my panic attacks never caused any major cardiac symptoms, but if they did I'd react in the same way.  What I wonder is, would a holter monitor be benificial for BTOWN?  Those things just seem like a really good tool.  I know they can't measure everything, but it might one provide some useful data?  I wore one once when I was having ocular migraines and didn't know what they were yet.  First stop was a cardiologist and he had me wear that thing for several days.  It was way back in the nineties and it was like carrying a notebook computer around.  Hard to be inconspicuous like that!  These days they're probably a whole, whole lot smaller.

Anyway, BTOWN, I wish you the best of luck.  Listen carefully to what RCA says and try your best to stay calm.  I know it's difficult, but try.

[BTOWN]

damn looks like im causing a feud on this forum. im sorry guys. i dont have major major problems with anxiety. i just worry too much about my heart. i mean i aint in the bestest of shape but i am in enough shape to train mma and jump rope for 15 minutes on my own time and not drop dead. as ryan says i am fine if i can do mma and all that without croaking. so i take that evidence and realize yes i am in good health. my thing once again is just the waiting process. it sucks because i am stuck with wondering"is it a benign arrhythmia?" or "a fatal one?"

bottom line.. they happen even when im not having anxiety. cuz i notice every one is saying oh anxiety aggrevates it blah blah blah. ok . well what about when i am enjoying life and just laying down resting and this sharp sting happens in my heart? wtf am i supposed to think? oh benign whatever i am fine. no sorry. if its enough to take my attention off EVERYTHING

that still wasnt answered when i said:"if i have a life threatening arrhythmia does it mean i could drop dead any day?"

[BTOWN]

damn looks like im causing a feud on this forum. im sorry guys. i dont have major major problems with anxiety. i just worry too much about my heart. i mean i aint in the bestest of shape but i am in enough shape to train mma and jump rope for 15 minutes on my own time and not drop dead. as ryan says i am fine if i can do mma and all that without croaking. so i take that evidence and realize yes i am in good health. my thing once again is just the waiting process. it sucks because i am stuck with wondering"is it a benign arrhythmia?" or "a fatal one?"

bottom line.. they happen even when im not having anxiety. cuz i notice every one is saying oh anxiety aggrevates it blah blah blah. ok . well what about when i am enjoying life and just laying down resting and this sharp sting happens in my heart? wtf am i supposed to think? oh benign whatever i am fine. no sorry. if its enough to take my attention off EVERYTHING

that still wasnt answered when i said:"if i have a life threatening arrhythmia does it mean i could drop dead any day?"

[BTOWN]

i messed up that paragraph

heres the real one

BOTTOM LINE.. they happen even when im not having anxiety. cuz i notice every one is saying oh anxiety aggrevates it blah blah blah. ok . well what about when i am enjoying life and just laying down resting and this sharp sting happens in my heart? WTF am I supposed to think? oh benign whatever i am fine. no sorry. if its enough to take my attention off EVERYTHING then i dont think its benign.

ryan i am taking all ur advice fully. bear with me man with talking your head off about this but i am a worryyier man. im sure u understand.

and ryan.. i know u cant diagnose me..... but are u pretty positive what i explain are pvc's?

[BTOWN]

???

[tanns]

One more thing.  My first holter monitor showed above average PVC's and 40 PAC's.  I didn't feel a thing, I thought it was uneventful.  My second showed 1 PAC.  I thought for sure it would be chalk full of PVC's, I thought I had a million.  No one came be sure what you are feeling unless it is caught on a monitor, if they are happening frequent enough, an EKG or holter will catch them.  If they aren't, ask for an event monitor, you can wear it for 30 days (it's removable for showers) and you press a button when you feel a sensation that it concerning to you.  But, the last time I wore this, I pressed that dang button so much because I wanted them to see that I WAS having something happen, and as you can guess....all 12 days, all my recordings, NORMAL.

[tanns]

I don't think you are causing any feuds, don't worry about that.  

I have to say, I am where you are but  fast forwarded a year and a half later.  I have become so very hyperaware of every little thing my heart is doing.  

After your workup from the cardio, when he tells you that you are fine, start RIGHT AWAY on the anxiety.  I've never had anxiety issues before my out of the blue panic attack in Nov 05.  I had NO idea what it was and became fixated on the fact that I must have had a heart attack.  I did this for over a year.  I saw 4 cardiologists.  All my test were normal.  My symptoms would come on kind of like yours.  They'd come out of the blue, like when I was playing a game with my kids, watching tv quietly, even just eating dinner.  I still don't get it.  But it was this reason that I couldn't except anxiety.  I didn't feel stressed, I didn't feel anxious and it happened anyway.

Anyway, get checked out, it should ease your mind.  And then work like heck to get out of the heart awareness thing, it's NO fun!!!

Best of luck to you.

[BTOWN]

thank you tanns. i really appreciate that.. i guess one good sign is that if its been happening for so many years and nothing horrible has happened then i am ok right? i mean.. think about it...... its been happening for years and there is nothing to worry about cuz i havent died yet. YET is my concern.

i just got my referal to the cardioligist today. i am making my appointment tomorrow asap when i am at work. in the mean time...... i hope they are only harmless benign PVC'S1 i want to live a long life. i eat healthy, i exercise every other day all that.. so i only hopeee.....

[RCA7591]

BTOWN,

PVC's are benign whether they are induced by anxiety, or for no good reason at all. None of my PVC's are anxiety induced, and I've had upwards of 3,000/day. Anxiety cannot explain everything, and neither can modern medicine. Often times, the exact source causing the PVC's cannot be pin pointed. The fact of the matter remains that in a structurally normal heart, they are a benigh entity (harmless). The only instance where they are not harmless is if they occur in the TENS of thousands/day, which you are not experiencing, or if the strcuture of your heart is abnormal (highly doubtful, especially given your age).

I can't diagnose you, but from what you have written on this forum, you are experiencing PVC's. 99.9% of the time they are benign, so until proven otherwise, you have to assume that they will cause you NO HARM. I think the Cardiologist will ease your mind, for sure.

The last thing on your mind should be "life threatening arrhythmia's". PVC's are far from life threatening. They do not induce lethal arrhythmia's, nor do they induce heart attacks. PVC's are "functional" (normal), and everyone experiences them to a varying degree. Most cannot feel them, and most are not bothered by them.

You'll likely receive a holter monitor to wear (a device which records a continuous electrocardiogram, aka: EKG). You may wear it for 24 hours, a few days, or a month (whatever the doctor orders). This device will reveal exactly what type of arrhythmia you are having (PVC/PAC), along with their frequency (number captured per day). Along with this, you'll probably receive serial EKG's, an Echocardiogram (to assess chamber size and valvular function), and perhaps, a nuclear stress test.

I would refrain from reading any more on this subject, as it will only serve to fuel your worry. Go about your business as usual, and wait for the appointment with the Cardiologist.

-Ryan

[BTOWN]

ok i understand they are harmless. its gotten through my head...BUT...

you and alot of other people say you experience thousands a day. if thats the case then thats why i ask are we sure it might be pvc's? cuz i dont feel something happening in my heart 3000 times a day . i can just be sitting there and like i stated in my first post....  "bu dum bu dum bu dum bu dum BAM buh dum buh dum buh dum buh dum buh dum buh dum BAM". thats what it does. and thats my point. it obviously must be something else cuz im sure as hell positive that if your having that many pvc's a day then i am totally off on this subject and something else could be wrong. anopther reason i question soooo much is cuz my doctor said pvc's arent painful. so thats why i wonder if it is something else. like i said it goes like this..... my heart is beating and then i get a quick sharp pain in one of my heart beats and it is definatly something that i notice weather i am attentive to my heart or not. its ******* scary man

[RCA7591]

Frequency doesn't matter. You could have 3, 5, 10, 50, 100, 3,000, etc each day, or the frequency could vary from day to day (and it usually does).

There usually isn't a trigger (unless anxiety triggers them), and they tend to occur for no obvious reason. It isn't known what causes them, but it IS known that they are benign.

They can be painful, although pain is subjective. I would describe them as a "sensation", rather than pain. But the "quick sharp pain" you describe is a common description. Keep in mind that "quick sharp pain" does not indicate a heart problem.

I have no doubt that they are either PVC's or PAC's. In fact, I know of nothing else that would define your symptoms more clearly. Even so, nobody can diagnose you over the internet, only the Cardiologist can. Therefore, you should see him as soon as possible, and put this fear behind you once and for all. This will (should) be easier to do once you have a definitive diagnosis.

-Ryan

[BTOWN]

do you have an instant messanger name ryan?

[RCA7591]

Shoot me a message at:

rca_7591 AT yahoo DOT com (replace AT and DOT with the appropriate symbols). Keep the message short until you have my real e-mail.

I will reply from my business e-mail address, and then you'll be able to contact me anytime you want. I usually reply between the hours of 3:00 PM - 4:00 AM, EST (which is the shift I work).

-Ryan

[BTOWN]

got it

[BTOWN]

ok cool. i am done with this topic until i go to the cardiologist. i am starting a new topic. and its nothing with worry . just curious

[RCA7591]

Message sent.

[RCA7591]

You asked:

"You had your MRI already right?  How did it go?  Is everything alright?  You don't have to respond if you don't want.  I understand it's a personal matter.  But I was just thinking about you. Hope it went well."

--end quote--

Raine,

I had the MRI.

I know that you have a fear of lung disease. So I have to ask you.....Are you sure that you want me to answer this, regardless of what the outcome was?

-Ryan

[spade22]

Your very comment suggests the outcome was not positive.........

[Raine9]

Well, I only want you to answer it if you feel comfortable.  I can deal.

[chadry]

I have been reading this for a few days to see what is being said because I myself have had these symptoms for many years. I think the first time I started getting this checked out was about 20 years ago. I never believed the docs when everything came back good. But I have learned to live with them now for alot of years. I still get them and sometimes they still scare me but I remind myself that I am still here after how many all these years. I do have a problem with excersising and getting my heart rate up because of this. It does scare me to get my heart rate up. Even though I can not say that they are brought on by me getting my heart rate up I just think I will get them if I get my rate up. This is a phobia for me I believe. One that I have to work on. These sometime painful and uncomfortable feelings come out of nowhere. Sitting, laying down and just doing whatever. I have many docs tell me these are normal things that happen and many people experience it but when you are scared about them nothing anyone says helps. I know because I have been there hundreds of times maybe more. I can not even remember how many hospital trips I have had over the years.i used to have regular workouts doing things like tae bo that I really enjoyed. I do not have a regular fitness program at this time because of other injuries that I have that get aggravated by bending walking and strenuous things.4 herniated discs in neck and one in low back, so my fitness is not what is was. I think that I am going back to my treadmill again slowly now I that I see this thread. I am not alone in my feelings about heart rate and skipped beats. I guess my whole point here after my babbling is that I started to see a doc in my 20's about this and I am now in my late 40's. I am still here. I never thought years ago I would make  it another day and that I would drop dead from these things. I didn't and I need to start my own journey again with my heart beats.
I truly hope everything is ok with you. It is a horrible and very scary feeling when these things hit you. Take care and hopefully in a short time you will be back to doing what you enjoy. If they say everything is good please don't let this ruin the quality of your life. Go slow at first and work your way back.
Take care and try(I said try) to relax.
Chadry

[heartfluttersflyawayplz]

i will be praying for you in your time of health, you are so kind to answer are questions and than be so concered that your test will up-set others on this board make them think they have it , your a true kind soul.  i know you have been there for me and so many of others who look for you and ask you questions not the dr. to be so young and be so smart and wise but most so kind at heart. God Bless you ryan praying for you to have better days .Barbara

[BTOWN]

so today i was soooo tired..... i got an iced vanilla brewed coffee... drank it slow...... it gave me tons of pvc's... and they werent any of the painful ones i have mentioned..... my heart would race... then felt like my heart paused for 2 seconds then beat again.... those are still pvc's correct? and if those are pvc's then i imagine that the sharp pain ones i get arent pvc's and are something else? ahhhhhhhhhhh sorry guys(you too ryan)but it has me freaked and has all day ... any advice?

[tanns]

If you read posts on other heart forums (and I DO NOT recommend you do this) you will find that people can have different sensations from their PVC's.  I have seen them referred to as painful, scary, a fluttering feeling, a rollercoaster drop feeling and many, many others.  I won't say "don't worry", I know that never helps.  But don't google anything and stay busy.  I know it is scary.  But you'll be okay.

Do you have an appointment with the cardio yet?

[BTOWN]

yes i do... friday at 2:45 pacific time.

sooooooo.....

ur saying that they can be dangerous?

[BTOWN]

yes i do... friday at 2:45 pacific time.

sooooooo.....

ur saying that they can be dangerous?

[tanns]

NOOOOO!!!  I'm just saying don't google things because you can easily start to "self diagnose" and feed any anxiety over what you are feeling.  I can't tell you how many heart related issues I was convinced I had all becaue I tried to google my symptoms.  It's just not a smart idea.

I don't know a whole heck of alot about PVC's.  But I've been reading about them on this forum for almost two years and there are A LOT of people who have them and have a fair amount of anxiety related with it.  Everyone has their own perception about how they feel.  I've seen them described a number of ways and in a structurally normal heart, they are all benign.

Good luck on Friday and I'm sorry if I made it sound like they were dangerous.  They are only, for most, anxiety provoking.

[BTOWN]

well thanks buddy... i am mostly trying to work on my stinkin anxiety and worrying... my problem is i do what ryan has told me not to do.....TO NOT BE ATTENTIVE TO YOUR HEART!!!


i need help with not paying attention to my heart...ESPECAILLY when i work out or train with my team cuz then i freak out.

any advice on training my mind to not do that?

[RCA7591]

"so today i was soooo tired..... i got an iced vanilla brewed coffee... drank it slow...... it gave me tons of pvc's... and they werent any of the painful ones i have mentioned..... my heart would race... then felt like my heart paused for 2 seconds then beat again.... those are still pvc's correct? and if those are pvc's then i imagine that the sharp pain ones i get arent pvc's and are something else? ahhhhhhhhhhh sorry guys(you too ryan)but it has me freaked and has all day ... any advice? "

--end quote--

Perfect description of PVC's. Watch the caffeine intake. Anything that has the potential to be stimulating can induce PVC's. No need to be freaked out. Remember, they are harmless!

Good luck at the Cardiologist's. You're going to be just fine! Once you have some reassurance, this will all blow over.

Be well, and post the results.

Ryan

[BTOWN]

ya i know its my anxiety though that continously causes me to repeat this stuff all over again!

i hate buggin u guys!!! u have already helped me but i still worry about it!!

thats why i need help with the mental part!! ryan i want to stop paying sooo much damn attention to my heart!!!! help mne!!!!!! ahhhhhh i wanna fight it man ahhhhhhhh hahahahah help!!!

[RCA7591]

In your case, do you think reassurance from a Cardiologist would be enough to help you cope?

In other words, do you think that you'll still worry even after the Cardiologist tells you that everything is OK?

Are the PVC's the only things you worry about? Is your worry fixated on your heart, or multiple things? If so, what are they? Compile a list of everything that disturbs you, your symptoms, etc, and post back.

-Ryan

[BTOWN]

and i do think that the cardio will help me get over it(as long as no new symptoms appear later on)

and yes my worry 90% of the time is fixated on my chest breathing and heart


ok..... when sitting in a car(no fear from accidents or anything)

i get really anxious shakey uneasy and sweaty...

when on my way to an event......a concert, training, or a place i have never been... i get a racey heart and shakey and sweaty and uneasy.

sitting period makes me concentrate on my heart or how my body feels period.. i get that disconnected feeling really bad where i feel like i am in a dream or i look down at my leg and it seems as if its not mine or im not really here.. i hate that one by the way..

and again back to the heart.... i cant help focusing on it cuz it slams in my chest when i work out or if i am driving(which i do all day cuz my job is mobile) cuz its the main thing in my life for the past 1.5 years has been worry about my heart. its just my biggest fear of dying. and it sucks and annoying.. especially to even you guys.

but in conclusion... my heart.. its the only thing i focus on weather working out sitting.. having sex.... playing sports with friends... playing an instrument... etc etc etc.. name any situation and time or place or anything and i can guaranttee i am worrying about my heart.... i wanna live a long life and stop this....

[debaser23]

Well, it's been my experience that you can't "fight it".  Anxiety will just fight right back and win by attrition.  You have to learn to accept it, first of all.  Then you can deal with it.

[BTOWN]

thank you... but thats even hard to do sometimes when u have a brain like me that doesnt stop worrying about every thing every one and all along with there grandma hahaha

[debaser23]

I hate this forum because you make what you feel is a good post, and it doesn't appear.  What gives?

Anyway, what I was saying was that I WAS like you and I know all too well how hard it is.  If a clean bill of health from your cardiologist doesn't alleviate your anxiety, I'd immediately seek other treatment.  Believe me when I say this: you do NOT want to go on like this any longer than you have to.  That's a weird thing to say...I know you're thinking that, haha.  But I eventually got so petrified by anxiety and panic attacks that I feared medication and therapy.  I wasted a LOT of time that way.

But what I was getting at is, if it turns out that you need a benzo or whatever to slow down and gain some perspective, by all means take advantage of it.  If it turns out that reassurance by your cardiologist is enough, even better!

But whichever is the case, it can and will get better if you're willing to do what it takes.

[BTOWN]

thank you alot debaser i appreciate it tons.

and ryan... i am on xanax. but thats it. it relaxes me and takes away my tension..... thats about it.. then i feel like a zombie after.....

does klonopin have side effects?  and man this makes me freaked out.. i dont wanna end up ina looney ben....can anxiety cause you to go mentaly insane?

[RCA7591]

Thanks for providing some more insight.

Focusing on both your heart and breathing is a habit that is very hard to break.
Often times, focusing on your breathing results in hyperventilation (which, in itself, produces symptoms). Shortness of breath, lightheadedness, numbness/tingling are the usual symptoms, along with an accelerated heart rate.

Unfortunately as Debaser has pointed out, it is difficult to "fight it", particularly when it involves more than one organ system. The hypersensitivity that you develop is progressive (meaning that it often gets worse), and at some point, no amount of positive thinking will reverse it. At this point, anxiety is disrupting your normal life, and treatment is warranted.

Several of the reactions that you mention (anxious, shaky while driving) point towards panic disorder. Untreated, panic disorder leads to phobia (phobia over your health, phobia over driving, avoiding social situations, etc).

If after seeing the Cardiologist you feel that you are unable to cope, you should see a Psychiatrist and discuss all of your issues openly with him/her.

Since a lot of your symptoms revolve around your heart and respiratory function, treatment with an anxiolytic (anti-anxiety) drug would be warranted. The one that I would recommend is Klonopin. Klonopin would help to reduce the hypersensitivity, and would reduce your symptoms considerably. The standard dosage for Klonopin is 0.5 mg, taken twice daily. Klonopin is unique in that it actually prevents or minimizes anxiety/panic before it happens (provided it is taken daily, everyday). Using the Klonopin as a tool, you would be able to work on resolving your issues more easily.

Keep in mind that the quality of your life is more important than anything else.

-Ryan

[debaser23]

I can answer that (anxiety causing insanity): No.  It just doesn't happen.  It makes you feel like you are, but you won't.  Believe me.

Ryan can give a better answer about Klonopin V. Xanax, but Klonopin has a very low side effect profile.  I'm on it and take it twice every single day.  I have no side effects.  In the beginning you may experience some, but they'll go away or diminish to the point they're not a problem.

Talk to your doctor about it when it comes time.

[RCA7591]

"does klonopin have side effects?  and man this makes me freaked out.. i dont wanna end up ina looney ben....can anxiety cause you to go mentaly insane?"

No, Klonopin is virtually free of side effects. The first two weeks of treatment you may feel some mild sedation, but this passes very quickly. Otherwise, you should feel pretty much like your old self again. No drug is a "cure all", but Klonopin is very helpful. I know it has been for me.

Xanax works immediately, and I mean immediately. It is intended to stop panic dead in its tracks. It is not intended to be used over the long term, because there is a huge risk of tolerance. Klonopin is very subtle, has a gradual onset of action, and is designed to *prevent* (not stop) anxiety and panic. This is the major difference between Klonopin and Xanax. Klonopin is indicated for use over the long term, and it is *very* specific at targeting panic. It is the drug of choice when cardiac or respiratory symptoms are involved.

If the doctor gave you Xanax, you shouldn't have a problem obtaining Klonopin. Ideally though, I would suggest the Psychiatrist, as they will follow your progress, and they are well versed on how these drugs work.

-Ryan

[BTOWN]

oh ok... well i have been on xanax since september of 06 and i went off of it out of no where... and when i got my new doctor i told him that previously a month before i wanted to come see him i just went off xanax like that! he freaked out and put me back on it. so i just got my second refill today but i wanna go off of it cuz i feel ready to. i took one by the half this morning..... any advice on going off of it?

[BTOWN]

alright....

so i just got back from the cardiologist.... he talked with me for a few minutes and asked me typical questions i guess. like whats ur family history this and that...from what i know my moms side is fine.. dunno know about my dads...so i told him my history (like i wrote in the very first post about this) and he says what i have is basically an extra beat..... he says the quick sharp pain isnt heart related and he couldnt really explain it well.... he said something about it being nerve ending related in my chest area? i have no clue.. he was asian (im not racist so please dont think so) so it was a little hard to understand him. but any who he did an ekg and said its normal and doesnt find anything unusual and that he says there is nothing to worry about with my heart...............

except



he thinks i have high blood pressure. he took my first reading and it was 160 over 90.... second time at the end...... 160 over 90........ he wants me to go back to my regualr doctor and get it checked out..... now i argued that i beleive it might be my anxiety causing that because i always get a little worked up going to the doctors.. when i went to my doctor for the first time in foreverrrrrr (1 month ago) his nurse took my blood pressure and it was high , dont remember the exact reading.... but then towards the end the doctor took my BP and it was normal like 120 somethin over 80. he said was good i guess.......

soooooooo is this bad? or good? i dunno.... not to worried about it.

the heart issue is over. so i am good now. thanks for all the help to ryan, debaser,spade,be still my beating heart 13,zenn11,raine9,wmac,rasticle,tanns, heartfluttersaway,and chadry. i wont ever forget how welcomed i was the first second i posted on here. u all took what spare time you had just to make sure i was ok. im sure ill post in other areas on some kind of issue ... but i can almost garuantee that my worrying is definatly at an all time low(meaning u wont see much worry from me any more).... i feel good. god bless you all. and ill always be here incase if any one needs me(for the little knowledge i have) and ill keep you all in my prayers. take care

brandon aka btown

[BTOWN]

and basically if my anxiety is causing high blood pressure then yes... i am a firm beleiver that anxiety does cause heart issues among others cuz u just wear ur body to shreds

[RCA7591]

The good thing is that the Cardiologist doesn't suspect that you have a heart problem. The normal EKG would reinforce that.

Blood pressure can fluctuate at the doctors office (a syndrome known as "white coat hypertension"). Anxiety can raise blood pressure by a trivial amount.

To differentiate between white coat hypertension and true hypertension, you can purchase a blood pressure monitor, and take measurements at home. If your mean blood pressure is less than 140/90 consistently, than it is normal. If the mean pressure is consistently elevated above 140/90 (either or both numbers), than the diagnosis of hypertension is made. One measurement alone is not sufficient to diagnose hypertension, therefore, you would need to take serial measurements of your blood pressure.

When you take your blood pressure, sit for 15 minutes before taking the measurement. Keep both feet flat on the floor, and keep your left arm at your heart level when taking the measurement. Document all of your measurements, and take them to your family doctor.

An anxiety attack is comparable to walking up a flight of stairs in regard to the amount of adrenaline that is secreted. Anxiety will not harm your heart. Exertion is good for your heart, and in some cases, may help to lower blood pressure. Minimizing your Sodium intake to 2,000 mg daily is often helpful as well. If you are overweight, losing weight can also help to lower your blood pressure. Daily exercise, weight loss (if necessary), and Sodium reduction are the first techniques implemented in lowering blood pressure. Avoiding tobacco and Caffeine are also helpful.

If these suggestions are not beneficial to you, and if your blood pressure continues to be elevated on the systolic parameter (>140 mmhg), Endocrine causes for the hypertension can be investigated.

-Ryan

[BTOWN]

i have used my wifes dads home blood pressure monitor and my readings were constantly over 140 over 80 or 90. sometimes even 150. but ...... i never rested for 15 minutes when i did it...... i rested for like 3 or 4 minutes each time................

[BTOWN]

ok ill write all that down..

but like i said im not worried because i bet it is my anxiety

[RCA7591]

OK, it's elevated.

Hypertenison at your age is unusual, and is usually "secondary" to an endocrine disorder.

See your faimily doctor, and have him order some labs consisting of the following:

-TSH, free T3/T4  (tests thyroid function)
-Random Cortisol level, 17-Ketosteroids ( tests for Cushing's)
-Aldosterone (tests for Aldosteronism)
-Complete Metabolic Panel, PTH (tests for Hyperparathyroidism)
-Plasma Metanephrines (tests for Pheochromocytoma)
-24-hr urinary fractioned Metanephrines/Catecholamines/VMA (tests for Pheo)
-HgH, Prolactin (tests pituitary function, growth hormone)

This is the standard work-up to rule out possible secondary causes of hypertension. If these results are all within normal limits, and exercise/weight loss/sodium reduction fail to decrease your blood pressure, Benicar 20-40 mg, qd (once daily) would be a good starting point at reducing your pressure.

The Endocrine disorders outlined above may also cause manifestations of anxiety, so it is a good idea to rule them out.

-Ryan

[BTOWN]

p.s. what is an endocrine disorder?

[RCA7591]

"but like i said im not worried because i bet it is my anxiety "

Anxiety explains labile hypertension (spikes in BP), but it usually doesn't explain sustained hypertension. Therefore, if your readings are elevated chronically, you would ideally want to find out why, and treat it.

Endocrinology is the branch of medicine that involves hormones, metabolism, etc. It addresses isssues such as the Thyroid. An Endocrine disorder (ie: Hyperthyroidism) can explain hypertension and anxiety. There are others as well, outlined above.

-Ryan

[BTOWN]

i see...... so if thats the case how long do i have to live? hahaha

[RCA7591]

"how long do i have to live?"

Provided you don't get hit by a bus or aren't involved in some other freak accident, a long time!

Track your blood pressure readings, and give the results to your family doctor. If you have Hypertension, it should be treated after all secondary causes are excluded. For someone your age who is physically active, Benicar 20 mg or Diovan 80 mg would be a good starting point. The chart below defines what is considered "normal", and what is considered Hypertension under the new guidelines:

Optimal: <120 systolic and <80 diastolic
Normal: <130 systolic and 180 systolic or >110 diastolic

*Source - Merck Manual Centennial Edition, 1999.

Ryan

[RCA7591]

Damn forum screwed up my chart and post. Ignore it.

Anything over 140/90 is considered "elevated"

Ryan

[RCA7591]

Apparently this forum doesn't like the symbols ""

Optimal = less than 120 systolic and less than 80 diastolic
Normal = less than 130 systolic and less than 85 diastolic
High-Normal = 130-139 systolic or 85-89 diastolic
Mild = 140-159 systolic or 90-99 diastolic
Moderate = 160-179 systolic or 100-109 diastolic
Severe = greater than 180 systolic or greater than 110 diastolic

Ryan

[BTOWN]