Aa
what is true?
high cholesterol/trigliceroid causes anxiety? or anxiety causes high cholesterol?
One last comment... I didn't mean that most anxiety disorders don't have a "physiological" cause. I was referring to an underlying "medical" condition - like one of the diseases Jake was referring to. I very much believe that anything that has to do with our brains has a physiological component / explanation - they are, after all, a part of our bodies. Panic and anxiety disorders are usually attributed to some malfunction in the limbic system - but this malfunction can be due to injury, traumatic experiences, genetics, diet, and god knows what else. Just wanted to clear that up.
well.. there are many subfields of psychology (most use scientific methods), but it's probably not best to have that discussion here :-)
Agree with you completely. Wasn't agreeing with Jake, was just saying we don't really know either about your statement that the vast majority isn't caused by a physiological cause. And theory in scientific terms is much more than theory in subjective terms, so you're absolutely right there too, but the history of science is riddled with discarded theories. Also not sure I'd call psychology a science, but that's too complicated a subject, eh?
Both lyme disease and EBV are not likely to mimic anxiety disorders - they can cause some of the symptoms associated with depression, but they also produce many symptoms not associated with depression. A good dr. should be able to distinguish the two. Also, lyme disease, EBV, and toxoplasmosis can all be diagnosed by their clinical features and by blood testing. Lyme disease is rare, toxoplasmosis is not that uncommon, and EBV is very common... when you look at the prevalence rates of anxiety disorders (not just "anxiety" which everybody gets) other factors are most certainly at play.
The "chemical imbalance" explanation for mental illness is largely rejected by the scientific community. Some people may suffer from a neurotransmitter imbalance, but many studies have shown no difference in neurotransmitter levels between depressed and non-depressed people. Also, antidepressants exert their action soon after you've taken the first pill. If depression were caused by a chemical imbalance, the symptoms should lift almost immediately. Anyone who has been on ADs knows that this is not the case. And for about 1/3 of people with depression, ADs don't do anything. Current research is pointing toward the role of glutamate in the brain, and the destruction of neurons in certain areas of the prefrontal cortex - likely caused by an increase of the stress-hormone cortisol. ADs might help speed up the healing process, but depression tends to lift in about 9 months even without treatment. Check out the research that is being done on the use of ketamine in depressed people.
The "chemical imbalance" explanation for mental illness is largely rejected by the scientific community. Some people may suffer from a neurotransmitter imbalance, but many studies have shown no difference in neurotransmitter levels between depressed and non-depressed people. Also, antidepressants exert their action soon after you've taken the first pill. If depression were caused by a chemical imbalance, the symptoms should lift almost immediately. Anyone who has been on ADs knows that this is not the case. And for about 1/3 of people with depression, ADs don't do anything. Current research is pointing toward the role of glutamate in the brain, and the destruction of neurons in certain areas of the prefrontal cortex - likely caused by an increase of the stress-hormone cortisol. ADs might help speed up the healing process, but depression tends to lift in about 9 months even without treatment. Check out the research that is being done on the use of ketamine in depressed people.
I get my information from 6 years of doctoral study in psychology. You are right that nobody really knows what causes mental illness... but it is likely a combination of a number of factors: medical reasons being one of them. Any medical doctor or psychologist will be the first to admit this. But to say 99.9% of anxiety disorders (even the ones that "pop up out of nowhere") are caused by an underlying medical condition is just pulling a number out of the air. Maybe one day we will find a medical reason that will explain all mental illnesses, but today is not that day. I'm pretty sure my panic and depression stems from a very abusive childhood... not a parasitic or fungal infection.
Jakegorzen uses the word "theory" very flippantly. Theories are our current best understanding of the FACTS. Scientific theories are not a flip of the coin.. they are built on mounds of evidence. Theories can be overturned - and they often are. But it takes a lot of evidence to the contrary to revise or toss out a theory. We can get into the game that everything can be caused by some yet to be diagnosed / discovered medical problem. But until there is enough evidence for that.. the argument is just speculation, or what Jakegorzen would call "a theory."
In regard to toxoplasmosis being proven to be the cause of schizophrenia.. this is half-true. Toxoplasmosis may be ONE possible cause of schizophrenia in some cases. Scientists have investigated many possible biological cause of schizophrenia: including certain viruses (including the flu) that a person is exposed to in utero.
If we start going down the path that we should toss out our best medical / psychological explanations simply because we don't know for sure... then we might as well say that mental illness is just possession by demons (once believed to be true) a cruel joke from a sadistic god.
Jakegorzen uses the word "theory" very flippantly. Theories are our current best understanding of the FACTS. Scientific theories are not a flip of the coin.. they are built on mounds of evidence. Theories can be overturned - and they often are. But it takes a lot of evidence to the contrary to revise or toss out a theory. We can get into the game that everything can be caused by some yet to be diagnosed / discovered medical problem. But until there is enough evidence for that.. the argument is just speculation, or what Jakegorzen would call "a theory."
In regard to toxoplasmosis being proven to be the cause of schizophrenia.. this is half-true. Toxoplasmosis may be ONE possible cause of schizophrenia in some cases. Scientists have investigated many possible biological cause of schizophrenia: including certain viruses (including the flu) that a person is exposed to in utero.
If we start going down the path that we should toss out our best medical / psychological explanations simply because we don't know for sure... then we might as well say that mental illness is just possession by demons (once believed to be true) a cruel joke from a sadistic god.
When I say "There is a physical cause for 99.9% of "Anxiety" ridden people."
Im am refering to the "Pure manifestation" type. The people where it just "poof" one day it all begins.....
There are PLENTY of different things that can cause SO MANY OF THE SYMPTOMS.
And Im not refering to Cancer, MS, AIDS, etc..
Im talking about, Viral, Bacterial, Parasitic, Fungal, etc..
You can look at 2 of the Communitys here "Besides Anxiety" the Cronic EBV, and the Lyme.
Just the two are VERY HARD TO DIAGNOSE properly "So many people go YEARS without a proper diagnosis"
and
The Parasite Toxoplamosis is being studied more, and is being proven by the Brits. to be the CAUSE of skitsophrenia.
Go ask a Doc about that, and I bet the Doc will have NO CLUE, or very little knowledge of that.
Now If that one parasite can cause that........"Which is extremely hard to diagnose" what else is there that causes problems??????????
I get my Facts from family, 2 of wich ARE DOCTORS and 1 is a pharmacist "For 20+ years"
O, my mom was also a nurse, and Ive studied psychology for 4 years. "Psychology is nothing but theroys, nothings FACT"
Paxiled
Your right, one day they will be looking back saying "They actually thought THAT was going to work?
Or that was the problem?"
Im am refering to the "Pure manifestation" type. The people where it just "poof" one day it all begins.....
There are PLENTY of different things that can cause SO MANY OF THE SYMPTOMS.
And Im not refering to Cancer, MS, AIDS, etc..
Im talking about, Viral, Bacterial, Parasitic, Fungal, etc..
You can look at 2 of the Communitys here "Besides Anxiety" the Cronic EBV, and the Lyme.
Just the two are VERY HARD TO DIAGNOSE properly "So many people go YEARS without a proper diagnosis"
and
The Parasite Toxoplamosis is being studied more, and is being proven by the Brits. to be the CAUSE of skitsophrenia.
Go ask a Doc about that, and I bet the Doc will have NO CLUE, or very little knowledge of that.
Now If that one parasite can cause that........"Which is extremely hard to diagnose" what else is there that causes problems??????????
I get my Facts from family, 2 of wich ARE DOCTORS and 1 is a pharmacist "For 20+ years"
O, my mom was also a nurse, and Ive studied psychology for 4 years. "Psychology is nothing but theroys, nothings FACT"
Paxiled
Your right, one day they will be looking back saying "They actually thought THAT was going to work?
Or that was the problem?"
Also don't know where you got the information from to make the claim the vast majority of people who suffer anxiety don't have a medical condition to explain it. Admit it folks, nobody knows anything about this stuff. We're the guinea pigs in the collection of information about this, and the guinea pigs for the experimental medications we take for it and the experimental therapy we get for it. Hopefully, our suffering will help future generations, but we're still in the infancy of allopathic medicine and traditional medicine isn't getting any research dollars. In a hundred years they'll think we were barbarians!
"There is a physical cause for 99.9% of "Anxiety" ridden people."
I don't know where you got the information from to make sure a claim. It simply is not true. Medical reasons are one of several different "causes" of anxiety (and depression). But the vast majority of people who suffer from anxiety do not have a medical condition that can explain it. Nobody knows for sure what causes anxiety (or any other mental illnesses), but it is likely a combination of a number of factors: childhood experiences, genetics, environmental, evolutionary, brain physiology, etc. Medical reasons (thyroid issues, vitamin / mineral deficiencies, etc) are just part of the equation... and these are (usually) ruled out before a diagnosis of an anxiety disorder is given.
I don't know where you got the information from to make sure a claim. It simply is not true. Medical reasons are one of several different "causes" of anxiety (and depression). But the vast majority of people who suffer from anxiety do not have a medical condition that can explain it. Nobody knows for sure what causes anxiety (or any other mental illnesses), but it is likely a combination of a number of factors: childhood experiences, genetics, environmental, evolutionary, brain physiology, etc. Medical reasons (thyroid issues, vitamin / mineral deficiencies, etc) are just part of the equation... and these are (usually) ruled out before a diagnosis of an anxiety disorder is given.
So much for not goin into detail eh? :0) LOL
Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's OK that our beliefs are different. I'M exlaining MINE from my standpoint...both as a registered nurse, but more importantly as a LIFELONG anxiety sufferer.
What I'm saying is that...I feel it is far more unhealthy to chase some kind of "rare" diagnosis as a way to find a "reason" for anxiety rather than to just get down to it, and treat anxiety (which is very successful!).
I already said that indeed, there ARE many physical ailments that cause anxiety, and I'm a big proponent of getting a thorough work-up to rule those things out. You must have missed that.
HOWEVER...the presence of anxiety disorders is very real. It isn't something "made up". For each and every person, the REASON for the disorder varies a bit...some are strictly emotional, some have physical components.
I have read through MANY MANY studies about both anxiety disorders and depression...and how they both respond to different medications. IMO, when a person is sidelined with anxiety....the "reason" doesn't become nearly as important as the treatment and the way to tackle it.
People with anxiety disorders are also classically worriers about their health...which is another reason that holding off treatment, or not "accepting" the presence of an anxiety disorder due to waiting for a physical ailment to be diagnosed is actually detrimental to many anxiety sufferers. It isn't until people can "accept" that what ails them is anxiety until they can really start addressing it.
AGAIN...this after ruling out a physical cause, of course.
And lastly...lydia and I have been pals for a while and were joking around with another. Her posts are informative...yet humorous. She has had the ability to make many of us smile and laugh at ourselves on more than one occasion....and THAT, my dear friend is priceless. Laughter is truly the best medicine.
If lydia can get the OP to see through the irrationality of some of his/her thought...then he/she will be in a much better place.
We were not making fun of the poster in any way. We are fellow anxiety sufferers, therefore are compassionate.
Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's OK that our beliefs are different. I'M exlaining MINE from my standpoint...both as a registered nurse, but more importantly as a LIFELONG anxiety sufferer.
What I'm saying is that...I feel it is far more unhealthy to chase some kind of "rare" diagnosis as a way to find a "reason" for anxiety rather than to just get down to it, and treat anxiety (which is very successful!).
I already said that indeed, there ARE many physical ailments that cause anxiety, and I'm a big proponent of getting a thorough work-up to rule those things out. You must have missed that.
HOWEVER...the presence of anxiety disorders is very real. It isn't something "made up". For each and every person, the REASON for the disorder varies a bit...some are strictly emotional, some have physical components.
I have read through MANY MANY studies about both anxiety disorders and depression...and how they both respond to different medications. IMO, when a person is sidelined with anxiety....the "reason" doesn't become nearly as important as the treatment and the way to tackle it.
People with anxiety disorders are also classically worriers about their health...which is another reason that holding off treatment, or not "accepting" the presence of an anxiety disorder due to waiting for a physical ailment to be diagnosed is actually detrimental to many anxiety sufferers. It isn't until people can "accept" that what ails them is anxiety until they can really start addressing it.
AGAIN...this after ruling out a physical cause, of course.
And lastly...lydia and I have been pals for a while and were joking around with another. Her posts are informative...yet humorous. She has had the ability to make many of us smile and laugh at ourselves on more than one occasion....and THAT, my dear friend is priceless. Laughter is truly the best medicine.
If lydia can get the OP to see through the irrationality of some of his/her thought...then he/she will be in a much better place.
We were not making fun of the poster in any way. We are fellow anxiety sufferers, therefore are compassionate.
Not even going to go into detail with you, because Ive done read ALLOT of your post, and our beliefs are totally different.
AND
"And, unfortunately...it is just this kind of thinking that lead SO many people battling anxiety on a never-ending search to find a physical reason for the manifestation of anxiety"
Have they PROVEN there theroy on the whole "Chemical imballance" theroy?
NO
Has REAL MEDICAL CONDITION BEEN PROVEN?
YES
There are MANY HARD TO FIND condidtions that can cause anxiety, and leaves a person "Alive" but sick enough to keep having mental problems.
IF A PERSON IS HAVING PHYSICAL PROBLEMS WITHOUT THE TRACE OF MENTAL PROBLEMS, THERE IS A PHYSICAL PROBLEM!
The who "Systomatic" THEROY IS JUST THAT...THEROY!
Has it been PROVEN? NO!
Have a nice day
AND
"And, unfortunately...it is just this kind of thinking that lead SO many people battling anxiety on a never-ending search to find a physical reason for the manifestation of anxiety"
Have they PROVEN there theroy on the whole "Chemical imballance" theroy?
NO
Has REAL MEDICAL CONDITION BEEN PROVEN?
YES
There are MANY HARD TO FIND condidtions that can cause anxiety, and leaves a person "Alive" but sick enough to keep having mental problems.
IF A PERSON IS HAVING PHYSICAL PROBLEMS WITHOUT THE TRACE OF MENTAL PROBLEMS, THERE IS A PHYSICAL PROBLEM!
The who "Systomatic" THEROY IS JUST THAT...THEROY!
Has it been PROVEN? NO!
Have a nice day
O and
Why are you making fun of someone whom is asking a general question?
Heres a proverb for you
2 wise men were talking with one another.
The one wiseman says to the other "A wise man questions everything"
The 2nd wiseman pondered for a moment, and responded
"Why?"
Theres nothing wrong with Negive having questions, even if they seem "off the wall" to you.
Negive
Im happy to see you questioning finally, and taking your "Diagnosis" with a grain of salt.
Maybe you should find another "different" MD "Not a physc." and have them do a full workup on ya. Good Luck
Why are you making fun of someone whom is asking a general question?
Heres a proverb for you
2 wise men were talking with one another.
The one wiseman says to the other "A wise man questions everything"
The 2nd wiseman pondered for a moment, and responded
"Why?"
Theres nothing wrong with Negive having questions, even if they seem "off the wall" to you.
Negive
Im happy to see you questioning finally, and taking your "Diagnosis" with a grain of salt.
Maybe you should find another "different" MD "Not a physc." and have them do a full workup on ya. Good Luck
Not to mention that hyperlipidemia and hypercholeterolemia do NOT "lead to" the conditions mentioned above. They are independent of one another with different mechanics/physiologies.
The presence of hyperlipidemia and hypercholesterolemia by themselves do NOT cause anxiety. Lydia explained it very well as to how the presence of heart disease as a result could indeed cause anxiety, but not just the presence of those abnormal lab values.
"There is a physical cause for 99.9% of "Anxiety" ridden people. "
You mean a physiological condition? I disagree completely. There have been numerous studies linking different benign conditions, such as Mitral Valve Prolapse (MVP), otherwise known as a heart murmur...with anxiety disorders, specifically panic disorder...although STILL the connection is a mystery. There is an extraordinarily HIGH percentage of people with MVP that also have a concurrent anxiety disorder Dx.
HOWEVER...
There are plenty of people who have anxiety disorders without the presence of a physiological imbalance/abnormality. And, unfortunately...it is just this kind of thinking that lead SO many people battling anxiety on a never-ending search to find a physical reason for the manifestation of anxiety.
All of that being said...of course there are some common conditions (thyroid disease, COPD, asthma etc) that DO cause anxiety...and a person with a new onset of anxiety absolutely SHOULD have a thorough medical work-up to rule out a physical cause. When that is exahausted, it is only sensible to treat anxiety as anxiety...instead of holding out unreasonable hope that they will someday find some elusive disease/disorder that is causing their anxiety.
"There is a physical cause for 99.9% of "Anxiety" ridden people. "
You mean a physiological condition? I disagree completely. There have been numerous studies linking different benign conditions, such as Mitral Valve Prolapse (MVP), otherwise known as a heart murmur...with anxiety disorders, specifically panic disorder...although STILL the connection is a mystery. There is an extraordinarily HIGH percentage of people with MVP that also have a concurrent anxiety disorder Dx.
HOWEVER...
There are plenty of people who have anxiety disorders without the presence of a physiological imbalance/abnormality. And, unfortunately...it is just this kind of thinking that lead SO many people battling anxiety on a never-ending search to find a physical reason for the manifestation of anxiety.
All of that being said...of course there are some common conditions (thyroid disease, COPD, asthma etc) that DO cause anxiety...and a person with a new onset of anxiety absolutely SHOULD have a thorough medical work-up to rule out a physical cause. When that is exahausted, it is only sensible to treat anxiety as anxiety...instead of holding out unreasonable hope that they will someday find some elusive disease/disorder that is causing their anxiety.
I disagree
High cholesterol and triglycerides can cause anxiety.
They both effect the heart, causing Pelpatations, High Blood pressure, chest pain, etc.
Not to mention the role they play on the hormones in a persons body.
Could also in theroy lead to hyperthyroid, Anemia, and many more conditions that cause "Anxiety"
There is a physical cause for 99.9% of "Anxiety" ridden people.
But the problem is Doctors now in days are "Trained" to prescribe and not "Find"
Most have a high ego and have a hard time saying "I dont know" or refer a person to a better Doc..so what do they do instead?
Diagnose you with a mental disorder.
High cholesterol and triglycerides can cause anxiety.
They both effect the heart, causing Pelpatations, High Blood pressure, chest pain, etc.
Not to mention the role they play on the hormones in a persons body.
Could also in theroy lead to hyperthyroid, Anemia, and many more conditions that cause "Anxiety"
There is a physical cause for 99.9% of "Anxiety" ridden people.
But the problem is Doctors now in days are "Trained" to prescribe and not "Find"
Most have a high ego and have a hard time saying "I dont know" or refer a person to a better Doc..so what do they do instead?
Diagnose you with a mental disorder.
:0)
Oh please do...my PM box isn't full enough from the "other" forum. :0)
I'm always STRANGE.....but shall NEVER be a STRANG-ER!
XOXO
Oh please do...my PM box isn't full enough from the "other" forum. :0)
I'm always STRANGE.....but shall NEVER be a STRANG-ER!
XOXO
Hey girlfriend! Good to have you in the 'hood again! I missed you!
(I will be sending you ALL of negive's PM's from now on as I believe he needs YOUR personal and professional help!)
We shall see THEN, exactly who is ROFLMAO!
Don't be a stranger!
Love ya,
GL
(I will be sending you ALL of negive's PM's from now on as I believe he needs YOUR personal and professional help!)
We shall see THEN, exactly who is ROFLMAO!
Don't be a stranger!
Love ya,
GL
My dear negive! Where DO you come up with this stuff? Bugs up your nose, eating frogs and lizards...........now this!
To the very best of my knowledge, the levels of your cholesterol and triglycerides will NOT cause anxiety. What they DO cause is problems with your arteries, usually those involved with your heart. STRESS increases the risk of heart disease, a major complication of hyperlipidemia...........and THAT stress MAY cause some to feel anxious, but hyperlipidemia by itself will NOT.
If you have been diagnosed with hyperlipidemia, you need to begin eating a diet LOW IN FAT, which is what cholesterol and triglycerides are.
Some examples of low fat foods include fruits and vegtables, nuts and berries, fish, frogs and lizards.
Peace
Greenlydia
To the very best of my knowledge, the levels of your cholesterol and triglycerides will NOT cause anxiety. What they DO cause is problems with your arteries, usually those involved with your heart. STRESS increases the risk of heart disease, a major complication of hyperlipidemia...........and THAT stress MAY cause some to feel anxious, but hyperlipidemia by itself will NOT.
If you have been diagnosed with hyperlipidemia, you need to begin eating a diet LOW IN FAT, which is what cholesterol and triglycerides are.
Some examples of low fat foods include fruits and vegtables, nuts and berries, fish, frogs and lizards.
Peace
Greenlydia
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