Mid Back Pain After Rest !

Hi,

For about 3 Months now, I have had this pain around the mid back ( around the Diaphragn- just below the ribs- on both sides but more pronounced on the right ).

The pain comes on after I have been sleeping for more that 6-7 hours. When I get up ,the pain gradually subsides and later on during the day it is almost gone (although not completly).

I would describe the pain as a dull ache but the pain sharpens and gets worse when I twist my torso or flip from one side to another when I have been in bed for longer than 6-7 Hrs.

I don't seem to have any tenderness upon touching the area though.

Because of this pain, I cannot lie in bed for longer than 7 Hrs.

The only other unusual symptom I have noticed is excessive burping so much that sometimes it makes me feel nauseous.

I don't know if this excessive burping has anything to do with the pain I described above but I seem to have developped it around the same time as the back pain.( Although I am not 100% sure of that either)... I read somewhere that digestive problems can sometimes cause pain in the Back...

FYI,I am a 38 old male,overwheight but otherwise healthy  ( or so I think)

I haven't been to a Dr yet because I am just too nervous.

Has anybody ever experienced similar symptoms ?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Regards.

[Kevin Pho, MD]

It is true that some digestive problems can lead to pain radiating to the back.  Specifically, an ulcer or pancreatitis can lead to tis symptom.  

You can evalute for this with an upper GI series or upper endoscopy (for an ulcer) or obtaining pancreatic enzymes (via the blood) or a CT scan to evaluate for pancreatitis.

If these tests are negative, you can consider musculoskeletal causes or nerve impingement.  An MRI of the affected area can be considered if this is suspected.

These options can be discussed with your personal physician.

Followup with your personal physician is essential.

This answer is not intended as and does not substitute for medical advice - the information presented is for patient education only. Please see your personal physician for further evaluation of your individual case.

Kevin, M.D.
http://www.straightfromthedoc.com

[Jace]

Hi, I get the same problem! When I sleep i wake up after about 7 or 8 hours with pain below my left shoulder blade. But when I get up the pain dissapears slowly over about an hour or two. Doesnt effect me at all when im awake during the day. Only after laying in bed for that long.

Sorry that I have no answers, but I am in the same boat and would appreciate anyones help!

[jess102]

i hate myself... i am a ape!... im gonna kill myself!! AHHHH MY LIFE *****!! HELP ME!

[cko]

Hi,

I have had very similar symptoms to the ones you describe above and wonder if you have gone to your doctor yet and what the result was???

[Mich4226]

I have had very simlar symtoms (symptoms) for about 6 months now. Seem to be slowly worsening. Intend on calling for a doc appt today. I wake EVERY morning around 3am (religiously) with mid back pain. I also sometimes feel burning in the gut, as well as most always feeling soooo bloated that I feel like I am gonna explode out my sides. Sometimes pain is only on right side under rib cage. Sometimes it feels like it is my kidneys that hurt but never during the day. Anyway, most of this usually subsides after I get up and start moving around. Except for the bloating and belching. I have found it's amazing that I can wake so miserably at night and toss and turn to try to get relief from the back pain/stiffness yet feel absolutely normal (with exception of bloating/belching)during the day. I had xrays done on my back-normal. I had standard bloodwork done-normal. I guess next step is ultrasound for gall bladder, pancreatitus (pancreatitis), etc. May need to check on ulcer too. I feel for you cause I used to LOVE my sleep. What I would give for one night's rest without waking in pain.

[phx]

I have had midback pain for a while now.  It wakes me up at 4:00 AM and after I get up it almost gone within an hour.  I don't have any other symptoms that some of you have(GI problems).  I went to the doctor and she prescribed an anti-inflamatory until I could get x-ray results back(they came back normal).  The anti-inflamatory eliminated ALL of the pain.  I don't like the idea of taking meds the rest of my life for my back pain, so I am going to try for a more permanent solution such as physical therapy.  Good luck to all of you.

[thankfuljen]

I'm 59.  I have had the same trouble.  It started 15 years ago.
Hurting got so bad it come thru to front of chest.  Doctor
said it was chest cage neuritis.  Gave shots in back and pain
went away.  Year later it started coming back mildly.  Now
I can do different things with arms and pain will start in
back hurting and burning...thru under chest cage.  Moving
around burping---goes away for a couple of hours and starts
back to the round of it is over...Couple of days.  I haven't
been back to doctor ...My doctor passed away...Use heat
pad and other things.. Sometimes works and sometimes heat
makes it worst.  Something triggers the nerve.  I need
help with it...    Thanks ...***@****

[noscp4]

oh my God - this is EXACTLY what has been happening to me - (except no burping).  For the last 10 days, I wake up every night around 3-4am - jarring mid back pain on both sides that jars me awake.  Then I can't get back to sleep.  I have gotten up and taken Advil a few times, which helped a little.  But like others on here, once I get up in the morning and shower - there is no pain.  I don't understand what this is.  i've always had no problem sleeping and no pain in my back at all.  My mattress is a good one and I got it just a few years ago so I know it's not that.  If I try sleeping on my left side, the pain moves to my chest - so I most definitely don't do that.  Sleeping on the right side hurts also so I end up sleeping on my back, where it is painful but at least I can sometimes fall back to sleep (although it takes a good hour or 2).  

The woman who mentioned the rib cage thing - can you tell us more about that?  A doctor friend of mine said I should go on muscle relaxers for a week and see how that does.  He recommends taking them 3x a day - not just before bedtime.  He said that's important, not sure why...

[sadiesmom]

this describes my sypmtoms so well.  I have had numerous tests done, bloodwork, been sent to a chiro for 4 months, nothing found.  I can only sleep between 5-6 hours before the pain starts under the rib cages in the back.  Its a bad dull ache, which hurts to take a deep breath.  As soon as I get up from bed and go to the bathroom the pain goes away and I'm fine the rest of the day.  I am so tired of waking up in pain every single morning, its awful.  My doctors is at his wits end.  It almost feels like the pain is radiating from my kidneys, but not real sure anymore.  I'm hoping someone on here can give some insight if they have found the problem or anything that will take away the pain.  I want to have another child, my daughter is 8 but I'm scared with this pain I wont be able to. Thanks in advance for any help/advise given.

[JudyA.]

I have been having midback pain on the right side for about 3 1/2 months upon waking in the morning. When I put my feet on the floor it is like a stabbing pain that radiates around to the front close to the rib area.  As the day goes on, it seems to get a bit better.  If I do any exercising on the floor, when I roll to the right side and try to get up, the pain is quite severe.  I started going to a chiropractor probably a month ago with no real result except that when I do arise in the morning, I don't have that pain. When I saw him last, he suggested trying a prednisone pac to reduce the inflammation.  I have been taking this now for 3 days with the last day coming up on Monday.  As of yet, I have felt no results.  I am beginning to be quite worried. It is quite strange that I do not have the pain all the time.  But then all of a sudden I will have it.  Can anyone help?

[swood]

I have had this same mid back pain in the morning. Wakes me up it is so painful. I try to roll over, but no relief. As soon as I get up and move around it completely goes away. Does not hurt to touch, pain seems to be deep inside. It's about 3-4 times a week. I have had it now for 3 months. I talked to my chiro about it. I have chronic low back and neck pain from accidents, but never mid back pain. He has recommended getting test done for kidney problems. But no other symptoms related to that. I have noticed that lately anytime I eat, I get tremendous rumbling gas pain. Never had that before. Dr. said it could be related to IBS. Past 4 years I have had undiagnosed stomach pain. Everytest in the book done. Nothing.I am tired of seeing Drs. so I will probably not do anything right now. However, if anyone gets any answers....please help!

[bobanei]

I know this sounds simplistic, but have any of you checked your mattresses?  This sounds like a combination of poor mattress support which, if the support is poor enough in the right spots, also could cause GERD or acid reflux.  If you are lying on a sofa, or reclining on any other piece of furniture when this happens, same result.

[radiomama]

I was so happy to learn that I'm not alone: waking up practically paralyzed with middle back pain in the morning.  My husband has to push me onto the floor just so I can get out of bed some mornings! I was telling a neurosurgeon/friend of mine about my condition (it's been happening now, on and off, for about 6 months) and he suggested "Sleep Paralysis."  Those of us who sleep heavily have an extended REM...the deepest level of sleep, when our body systems all but shut off completely (so that if you dream you're jumping off a cliff, you don't actually jump off your dresser and break your leg: it's the human body's protection mechanism...)  This "paralysis" happens when you wake DURING REM, while your systems are still down. That's why the "pain" goes away after a short while: (your systems wake up after you do.)  I really like this explanation, and actually looked it up on the internet.  It exists! All that being said, there is no cure: this is a stress related disorder: your subconscious is trying to keep you away from the awake, real world as long as possible. (It also explains why it doesn't happen everyday: lessen stress, lessen the disorder.)   Please respond to this! My husband really wants me to go to the doctor!  What do you think?

[Laragh]

I have also been suffering for the past five mounths getting a  max 5 hours sleep, always wakening at 4am with muscle spasms and unable to lie in bed because of the excruciating pain which has steadily gotten worse every week.  The pain subsided within about an hour of getting out of bed and was almost gone throughout the day (only a little stiffness)  I would go to bed fine only to wake at 4am, a scenario repeated every night which often used to reduce me to tears.  One doctor dismissed me as having lumbago and sent me packing and telling me to take paracetamol and that 90% of the counrty suffer from back pain!!  Got a second opinon and a very sharpe Dr order me to have a full blood count and urine test.  It revealsed I had a Urinary Track Infection, I was perscribed antibiotics- the PAIN HAS GONE and last night was my first night in about 3 months that I slept through the night and woke pain free HUraaay!!!

I am still a little stiff and slightly sore which is to be expected, I suppose as my poor Kidneys must have been so sore, but at last I can see the light at the end of the tunell

Hope this info throws some light on the pain you are suffering

Laragh

[mofan]

I've had a dull ache in my mid back for about 2 weeks, and it's also worse when I first get up in the morning. It started with a sharp stabbing pain when I reached down to pick up a bag of sugar at the grocer store. (only 5#)But the way I bent or twisted did something.  I've been seeing a chiropractor for a couple weeks and gradually the pain is going away. I, too have had the pain radiate to the front(left side) around the rib level. I don't like taking pills, but ibuprofen works well for me. Just 2 tablets a day when I do have pain.  X-rays showed my neck to be straight, instead of curved, so my chiropractor is working on that. I ran a marathon last weekend with no problems. Only hurts after resting or when I sit for long period of time.

[HappyHowie]

For those of you with flank pain, is there a chance that each of you have been taking Crestor or similar drug (statins)?

[PeteA]

I have had this similar rib/back pain for a little over two years. Ocassionally, the pain is not so bad, but I have had it just about every morning. I don't have digestive problems which doctors quickly think it stems from. Pain relievers, muscle relaxers don't help the pain. I also wake routinely at 4AM with excruciating pain where I find it hard to turn from side to side in bed. Despite the pain, I usually lay in bed until 7AM.  I've tried different mattresses. The pain is horrible in the morning and it usually takes 5 to 6 hours to subside, so by noon to mid-afternoon I feel much better. I noticed that I don't get the pain if I have had a bad night's sleep and noticed that the better or harder I sleep the worse the pain is. I have another symptom that may be related: within the last year, I wake up in such a low energy state that I feel totally drained and it feels as tough my veins are filled with molasses. Like the rib/back pain it takes 4 or 5 hours to feel normal after waking up in the morning. A dr's visit, blood tests and ekg haven't revealed anything.

[Hoden]

The only relief I have had from the early morning back pain has been reading this message board.  Like the rest of you, I sleep about 6 hours a night and awaken to crippling mid back pain right below my rib cage.  As soon as I take a share and move around for about 20 minutes, it's relieved.

I bought a sleep number bed, I have body pillows, pillows between my legs, behind my back, elevating my feet, every which way.

I delay going to bed so that my six hours of sleep will allow me to wake at a decent time instead of at 3 or 4 am.  I flip flop in bed trying to get some nuggets of sleep between the pain and usually stay in bed for a couple of hours.

I told my doctor and she brushed it off as a passing issue.

Earlier this summer I was treated for a GI bleed for which they could not find the cause -- after many tests.  I have had blood work which shows nothing abnormal.  I wish it was as easy as a kidney infection.

It scares me to get wrapped up in a bunch of pain meds -- potentially for the rest of my life.   I have taken statin drugs before for high cholesterol.

I am overweight and my theory is that it's related to weight gain and the stress that may be on your spine in order to carry weight.  My short term strategy is to strenghten my back (through exercise) and try to shed some pounds.  If that doesn't work, I am going to raise the issue again with doctor.

Historically, I have been a great sleeper and have enjoyed some 12-14 hour nights of sleep (on weekends) which I no longer have due to the back pain.  On a good night, I can only get 5-6 hours a night - so I often nap on the weekends to close the sleep defecit.  The lack of sleeps makes me always tired and the bags under my eyes and lack of energy are also becoming.  The Catch 22 is that the low energy level from lack of sleep has led to weight gain and then more back pain, as my theory goes.

I am very much interested in learning more about anyone else's experience, solutions, theories as this crippling at 39 is making me very frustrated and aged.

Thanks so much.

[StollingsRN]

HI
I HAVE MID BACK PAIN TOO THAT WAKES ME UP DURING THE NIGHT. I HAVE CHANGED MATTRESSES SEVERAL TIMES. I NOW HAVE A MEMORY FOAM MATTRESS. I HAVE TO TAKE SLEEP MEDS TO GET ME TO SLEEP AND I AWAKE WITH EXCRUTIATING MID AND LOW BACK JOINT PAIN. ONCE I GET REPOSITIONED, I GO BACK TO SLEEP. I FIND CURLING UP LIKE A BALL HELPS. I HAVE GONE TO DR'S AND I DO HAVE HYPOTHYROIDISM, BUT MY MEDICICATION HORMONE LEVELS ARE NORMAL. I FEEL SO FATIGUED AND TIRED DURING THE DAY. THE PAIN IS GOOD DURING THE DAY WHEN I MOVE AROUND. I DREAD BEDTIME!!! I AM NOT GOING TO ACCEPT BEING DIAGNOSED WITH CHRONIC FATIIGUE AND FIBERMYAGIA WITHOUT RULING OUT SOME OTHER POSSIBILITIES. RHEUMATOID WAS NEGATIVE TOO. I THINK WE LIVE IN TOO MODERN OF MEDICINE CENTURY TO NOT FIND A CAUSE. I AM NOT GIVING UP. THERE'S GOT TO BE AN ANSWER. GOOD LUCK AND I WILL PRAY FOR YOU ALL AND YOU DO THE SAME FOR ME.

[inisfree]

I had the same problem. I would go to bed and sure enough I would be up at four. I had about three pillows and when my sides got sore after waking me up I would end up trying to sleep almost sitting up. A while ago I started to use one thin pillow and the problem has gone away. Maybe something this simple is all it takes to remedy this problem...worked for me..

[HappyHowie]

Let me see, placing one thin pillow under your head helped? Or was it placed between the bed and the (one?) side you were having pain?

Geez, I thought my pillow was a thin one.

[inisfree]

To happyhowie  For years I used to have three pillows but when I switched to one thin one under my head all the pains in the lower ribs disappeared.  As far as I can figure it out, trying to sleep in the sitting position must have put pressure down there and I hit the limits about 4 oclock in the morning.  Its worth a try

[coljac]

Funny what you find surfing the internet. There's something quite surprising about finding your own weird symptoms described so exactly by another person. I also wake up most mornings with a dull, persistant ache in my my-lower back. Taking a deep breath causes terrible pain. Once I get up, I'm fine and can forget about the issue until I wake up, sleep ruined again. I'm not overweight, and have a good mattress, so for what it's worth - and I could certainly be wrong - I don't feel it's an issue of back support. I believe that this pain is almost always associated with a strong need to go to the bathroom. Could it be kidney related? Stress is also a possibility. I hope those who solve the mystery can report back here, I'll keep an eye on this page myself.

[merrily]

How amazing it is to discover that others are suffering from my same symptoms.  I have been having difficulty for about 6 months and it seems to be getting much worse.  I sleep well until 4:30 AM and then, almost like clockwork, I awaken with pain in my back, near my spine, and yes, near my rt kidney.  I cannot get comfortable by switching positions and finally have to get up, take a shower or hot bath to relieve the pain.  Initially, it would immediately get better and not return until the next night.  However, now it seems to stay a bit sore until mid afternoon.  At this point, I seem to get a second wind and feel normal. Unlike most of you, I have not sought medical help to this point.  
The one thing I was wondering if any of us had in common is poor posture.  I have quite slumped posture and have recently taken a seasonal job at a jewelry store which has me on my feet for hours and bent over the counter.  I also sleep rather rolled up.  I notice when I awake that if I stretch out it seems to help some.  Some other sites I have read state that posture could cause back pain?  I would be greatly interested in any comments, and like others will continue to monitor this site.

[Crofty]

im getting this pain too! every morning i get a ache that wont go away until i go to the toilet. i used to sleep with 2 pillows with my arm proping my head up even more underneath them and this is definately something to do with it. I am only using 1 pillow now but still use my arm underneath but if i take away the pillow and just rest my head on mattress i can feel the pain easing but i need at least 1 pillow. I think its to do with the way your back bends when your head is high up. Ive been to see a doctor and he says it could be to do with me being tall, a musculoskeletal pain. Which is probably true, but im not that tall, and im not putting up with the pain because of that, and why do i get the pain and not all tall people? A couple of nights ago i didnt get the pain and was chuffed for a while the i realised that this was because i was sleeping in an armchair and so my body was upright. I went for an ultrasound the other day but that didnt show anything abnormal apparently. Something funny is going on inside but i dunno what, im going to see a urologist in a few weeks, hopefully he can help.
We should help each other by reporting any diagnosing or anything and should see if we have something in common, is everyone tall and using a few pillows? hope this helps, we will find an answer

[inisfree]

To Crofty  Just to let you know that I am 6 ft 4

[merrily]

I'm only 5'3. . .

[Crofty]

hmmmm, lol. i think this could still work if your posture means you bend your back when your sleeping. But it isnt just this because there would be loads of other people with this problem and doctors would be more aware. http://www.medhelp.org/forums/urology/messages/30281a.html
this page is quite helpful and it could be to do with back flow of urine or something. Its definately to do with sleeping horizontally and the intensity is to do with how much food i drink i consume the evening before. Im stuck for ideas apart from that. I once swallowed a marble, lol, think that could of done anything?   ...yes it did come out the other end :P
any one else swallowed anything or have any ideas?

[asorensen]

My christmas present - I guess !! Until about two weeks ago I have never heard of nor had the problems which people describe on this blog. I am in my early 40's, healthy, fit, 5'9" male. I suddenly started waking at 4am with mid back pain and pain in the front at the lower rib area. Like others have mentioned here I cannot feel the pain by pressing on the outside. If I get up the pain gradually subsides over about half an hour or so. I don't think anything has changed in my exercizing, my diet, or my stress levels in the past couple of years. If anything my stess levels are very low right now. I have not yet gone to my doctor yet ( he would barely recognize me for how infrequently have ever had to seek medical attention) but intend to go soon. I am actively  -  like many of you I am sure - trying to research this problem and if possible isolate what the change may be. I will post any changes or new information and look forward to seeing if anyone else has something new to offer.
Cheers.

[livegreen]

ive been having early morning (5am) back spasms since late march 2004. seems to wax and wane (currently fairly intense on right side near kidney). i am curious if there is some regionality to this or other lifestyle factors that we might all share?
i live in san francisco, am vegan (eat no animal products), probably have a low calcium intake, low stress, drink coffee, very lightweight (118 lbs). when this started i had a 1 day flu -- that night i woke up with really intense spasms behind my left shoulder blade. it was intense for several months and lessened for a while (i started doing back exercises to strengthen my muscles, which seemed to help). right now it is bad again. do any of you recall a flu when it started? im wondering if it is something called 'post viral syndrome'.

[inisfree]

I think the only thing everyone has in common is getting up at 4 oclock in the morning.  Size weight sex eating habits are all varied. The pillow thing worked for me and in my case I think it was poor posture in bed.  When I had it bad the only way to relieve it for a while was to sit up and try to sleep..most of that was short lived and I would just get up.  The one thin pillow works for me.

[swood]

Well, after several months of pain, I decided to see my dr. All blood and urine test and ultrasound of gall bladder is negative. Dr. thinks muscoskeletol....blah blah blah!(my chiro disagrees) I have a memory foam bed and the pain is actually worse than traditional bed, eventhough I have the pain on a traditional bed and now even resting in the recliner. I am baffled and tired of it, but tonight after reading what others have posted, I will try the thin pillow! btw, I am 5'1" and live in Alabama.

[Nomad27]

I have had the same symptoms for the past 5 or 6 months. Althogh its started as digestive discomforts, recently it has developed to a constant bloated feeling of abdomen and a dull mid back pain. I think I might visit a doctor over the weekend(previous visits have been dismissed as poor diet and low water intake). I read somewhere that they could be signs of a stomach ulcer.

[H-bug]

Just doing some research for a client with these symtoms (symptoms).  I have come across a muscle called posterior serratus inferior.  It connects on the caudal borders of the last 4 ribs and spinous processes of T11, T12, L1, L2.  It stabilizes lower ribs against upward pull of diaphragm during exhalation.  Just a thought, it seems to be the exact area most of you feel discomfort.  A massage therapist might be a good next step.   I send you all healing energy.

[cathexis]

It is 5:45 AM and I, once again, awakened with extreme pain in my entire rib cage...as though someone had taken my body and twisted it. Because this is the third week I have experienced this nightly pain, I decided to search the web for possible causes. (There is some solace in knowing that I am not alone with this problem.) Similar to all of you, I wake up after 5-6 hours of sleep and my entire rib cage is extremely sore and the condition becomes worse when I take a deep breath. I feel as though I had a waterskiing accident or someone heavy has been laying on my chest all night. After getting out of bed, there is no chance for me to lay down again. Because, as soon as my chest hits the bed, I experience excrutiating pain. I am okay after 30 minutes of walking around, but I can duplicate the rib pain by forcing myself to stand erect. I first thought my problem was bone related, but now I think it is a muscular problem. Like many others in this forum, I have experienced a recent weight gain (20 lbs), I have been sedentary for months, and I also have acid reflux. Not sure about the correlation. My sympathy to all of you.

[HappyHowie]

I had an iodine CT-Scan in the past 3 weeks.  Everything was clear in the urinary tract and gall bladder. No tumors.

However, very small kidney stones were noted, but Dr. says should not be source of pain.  Also (I forget the term) the kidney showed something like a small "bruise" in the upper portion of the kidney.  Again, the doc says this could not be the source of pain that hits my right flank area after sleeping on my right-side.  This pain forces me to sleep on my back or left side which I am not accustom to doing.  Doc hopes the pain will go away with the passing of time. I guess, I will wait it out.

[Mich4226]

I have found that sleeping in my recliner seems to do the trick. No pain all night. But...who wants to sleep in a recliner for the rest of their life? NOT ME. So, I am currently experimenting with my mattress by placing cushions underneath it to prop me up to a more slanted position. It seems to work as I have slept on it twice and did not wake with any pain. For me, it seems to be laying flat on my back that contributes to the pain. So, the next step will be to buy and mattress wedge to prop my mattress up indefinitely. Hope this is the answer. At least I can say that these changes have allowed me to have the only full nights sleep with no pain in 9 months.

[Mich4226]

I have found that sleeping in my recliner seems to do the trick. No pain all night. But...who wants to sleep in a recliner for the rest of their life? NOT ME. So, I am currently experimenting with my mattress by placing cushions underneath it to prop me up to a more slanted position. It seems to work as I have slept on it twice and did not wake with any pain. For me, it seems to be laying flat on my back that contributes to the pain. So, the next step will be to buy and mattress wedge to prop my mattress up indefinitely. Hope this is the answer. At least I can say that these changes have allowed me to have the only full nights sleep with no pain in 9 months.

[jmp.uk]

I have read with interest all the comments about probable kidney pain early in the morning.  I am 45 and first had this pain 20 years ago after a night of drinking heavily - pain both sides in the kidney area which went soon after getting out of bed.  The doctor put it down to muscle pain due to being in a 'comatose' state.  I have experienced it a few times over the ensuing years - always after drinking a bit too much alcohol.  However, over the past year or so, I seem to suffer if I have more than one or two alcoholic drinks the night before and also, I believe, if I consume too many toxins the previous day.  Could it be dehydration causing the pain? - the kidneys being inflamed by the concentration of toxins?

[inisfree]

jmp.uk  That is a real good probability.  It seems everyone had different things but this is a new one that might have a bearing on the pain.  I usually have a few glasses of wine before going to bed each night but lately I have not had the pain but I know it will come back...sort of comes and goes when it wants.  I will be watching the football games today and will consume I am sure more wine than I normally do.  I will do this for medical reasons..lol and post my comments on the outcome. What you do for science and the medical field..wish me luck and hopefully we will have a cure...though I would hate to give up my wine at night...what a bummer.....

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[Tronby]

Here I am awake at 4am again. For me it is definitely kidney pain. I have had kidney stones before..very painful. I don't drink enough water and had a sauna yesterday. Despite drinking 2 liters  of water in the sauna.. I am paying for it tonight. Left side, mid back, aching and throbbing, pain eases when I get up and move around. Just taken painkillers panadol..pain easing a little..drank lots of water too. I often get this, particularly after a hot day, long walk or just absentmindedly not drinking enough, having a glass of wine before bed  or drinking coffee during the day  ..a diuretic. Thinking of you all