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Does this sound like Aspergers??
I will try to make a long story short. My son who 6.4y/o was tested by the school because of behavioral issues. I had a meeting with the school 2 days ago, to review the results of all the tests.
The KTEA-II came out very high 98 to 99.6 percentile on all categories. Also in her report she wrote, that that it could be a underestimate of his true abilities, b/c he refused to participate. So, he's smart and bored with school. The psychologist feels he might have Aspergers b/c he wouldn't look at her and in her observations didn't socialize well. The speech pathologist disagreed with her. The SP feels he has vast vocabulary and in her observations, socialized very well in taking turns with communicating and great eye contact and expression, with a subject he is interested in. At home I don't have a problem with eye contact, unless he is in trouble, then he doesn't like to look at me.
All of his other tests, DAS-2 KABC-II Speech/Language eval.,and SIPT, came in average, above average, high, and superior range.
Big question!! Could he have Aspergers??? I know this is probably an impossible question to answer with out seeing him. Oh, 1 other thing the school told me to him evaluated by an MD, that's all they will recognize.
Thank you any possible answers,
A concerned Mom
The KTEA-II came out very high 98 to 99.6 percentile on all categories. Also in her report she wrote, that that it could be a underestimate of his true abilities, b/c he refused to participate. So, he's smart and bored with school. The psychologist feels he might have Aspergers b/c he wouldn't look at her and in her observations didn't socialize well. The speech pathologist disagreed with her. The SP feels he has vast vocabulary and in her observations, socialized very well in taking turns with communicating and great eye contact and expression, with a subject he is interested in. At home I don't have a problem with eye contact, unless he is in trouble, then he doesn't like to look at me.
All of his other tests, DAS-2 KABC-II Speech/Language eval.,and SIPT, came in average, above average, high, and superior range.
Big question!! Could he have Aspergers??? I know this is probably an impossible question to answer with out seeing him. Oh, 1 other thing the school told me to him evaluated by an MD, that's all they will recognize.
Thank you any possible answers,
A concerned Mom
I am a parent of a child on the spectrum, not a professional.
The interesting thing I saw in your post was that the SP thought he performed okay when participating in something he was interested in. Sometimes that is how those on the spectrum are. My son will engage and make eye contact and take turns etc if you are doing something he is interested in. He also was assessed by a SP as having age appropriate expressive language. I disagreed with this because I knew that my son was using alot of language he had lifted from other people/TV/DVDs etc but uses them appropriately, and he does have a good vocabularly in his areas of interest. In the end I paid a private SP who had experience of autistic spectrum disorders as well as attending Educational Tribunals. I told her all my concerns and she carried out extensive assessments on my son. Her results confirmed my suspicions. For example can your son listen to verbal instructions and carry them out; can he listen to a story and deduce information from it; does he have any Auditory Processing or Processing Delays; does he understand humour; can he multi-task from a sensory point of view eg. can he listen and look; does he ever appear deaf when you call his name.
Google Semantic Pragmatic Speech Disorder and see if that sounds relevant to your son. If I were you I would also want a SP with experience of speech disorders as well as speech disorders associated with autistic spectrum disorders.
Does your son socialise generally on the same level as his peers?
Does he have interests or obsessions?
Does he have any sensory issues?
Does he throw tantrums?
Does he get upset at changes in routine or doing things in a different way.
It is quite possible he is gifted.
My son had a range of percentiles ie. 93% in areas such as spatial awareness and pattern recognition against a 2% for understanding verbal instructions. Most of his other scores were around average, but again he got much better results on other tests that were carried out which did not depend on language - however my son is High Functioning Autistic and not Aspergers.
Can you give some details about the behavioural issues?
You can also google DSM IV for the diagnostic criteria for Aspergers to see what it is.
The interesting thing I saw in your post was that the SP thought he performed okay when participating in something he was interested in. Sometimes that is how those on the spectrum are. My son will engage and make eye contact and take turns etc if you are doing something he is interested in. He also was assessed by a SP as having age appropriate expressive language. I disagreed with this because I knew that my son was using alot of language he had lifted from other people/TV/DVDs etc but uses them appropriately, and he does have a good vocabularly in his areas of interest. In the end I paid a private SP who had experience of autistic spectrum disorders as well as attending Educational Tribunals. I told her all my concerns and she carried out extensive assessments on my son. Her results confirmed my suspicions. For example can your son listen to verbal instructions and carry them out; can he listen to a story and deduce information from it; does he have any Auditory Processing or Processing Delays; does he understand humour; can he multi-task from a sensory point of view eg. can he listen and look; does he ever appear deaf when you call his name.
Google Semantic Pragmatic Speech Disorder and see if that sounds relevant to your son. If I were you I would also want a SP with experience of speech disorders as well as speech disorders associated with autistic spectrum disorders.
Does your son socialise generally on the same level as his peers?
Does he have interests or obsessions?
Does he have any sensory issues?
Does he throw tantrums?
Does he get upset at changes in routine or doing things in a different way.
It is quite possible he is gifted.
My son had a range of percentiles ie. 93% in areas such as spatial awareness and pattern recognition against a 2% for understanding verbal instructions. Most of his other scores were around average, but again he got much better results on other tests that were carried out which did not depend on language - however my son is High Functioning Autistic and not Aspergers.
Can you give some details about the behavioural issues?
You can also google DSM IV for the diagnostic criteria for Aspergers to see what it is.
It may help to see him in school, but he may act differently when he sees you there. But my son was much more 'autistic' in school than at home. I think in school there was just too much going on and he just retreated into his own space. Schools are very noisy places, not how it used to be when I was at school. In my sons class each table was doing a different activity, and instructions were given out verbally. My son had no idea of what he should be doing and just seemed to drift around the classroom. And when they tried to engage him or get him to attempt his work (which he couldn't do because he didn't understand what was expected of him), he would show avoidance behaviours and get upset.
But school specifically has everything that someone on the spectrum struggles with. It is all about language when they either have very poor understanding of language, or auditory processing or auditory memory problems. It is full of social interaction whereas home is quieter with just family members. There is lots of organising and planning and deducing information and experimentation in school when most have problems with these executive functions. There is also much more sensory processing in every sense for children who may find even a quiet place too distracting.
Hope the observations give you a better insight.
If he can put together a good constructive argument maybe he has a future in law??
But school specifically has everything that someone on the spectrum struggles with. It is all about language when they either have very poor understanding of language, or auditory processing or auditory memory problems. It is full of social interaction whereas home is quieter with just family members. There is lots of organising and planning and deducing information and experimentation in school when most have problems with these executive functions. There is also much more sensory processing in every sense for children who may find even a quiet place too distracting.
Hope the observations give you a better insight.
If he can put together a good constructive argument maybe he has a future in law??
Thank you so much for the replies!! What I see at home and what the teacher sees, seem to be different. I'm going to call his teacher today and ask if I can sit in the class for a day or two. I want to see what she is seeing. I'm hoping this will be beneficial, or it may confuse me even more.(LOL)
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
It sounds as though the behavioral issues that prompted the evaluations related to his cooperation with work and his complaints about the level of work. To me, this strongly suggests working with the school to be sure that he is working at the right level and is properly motivated. Lack of eye contact during just some of his testing does not make me concerned about social deficits such as those seen in children with Asperger's. Your description does not seem to fit that profile. Nevertheless, a diagnosis can only be assigned based on thorough, in-person assessment by a qualified professional. If you and the school have concerns about his development, I recommend that you have him evaluated. Unfortunately though, a diagnosis on its own will not resolve the problems he is having at school. Independent of the outcome, his school will need to work to build on his strengths, address his behavioral issues, and find ways to motivate him.
From what you have posted he doesn't sound like he is on the spectrum. I agree with you and think you need to look to see if he needs stretching a bit more in school. The behavioural issues you have raised don't seem too bad to me. Maybe in school they see it as argumentative and disrespectful. But he appears to have enough insight and understanding for you to be able to explain to him that the way he behaved in school was not right.
Thank you again Sally44, for helping me though this.
Please google Semantic Pragmatic Speech Disorder and tell me if that sounds like your son.
No, he does not take language literally, sarcasm runs high in my house. He scored a 155 In Antonyms.
He does enjoy pleasing his parents. As in nonconformist (Ex. Friday night is is movie or game night. I brought up the idea of playing Planet Earth, witch they both enjoy playing. My son will wait till everyone has answered and give a different answer. When I told him we were going to play the game, he was fine with it. He was looking for a reason to argue. Saturday night we told the boys to get ready, b/c we were taking them out to dinner. My son started complaining he didn't want to go to that restaurant, but could not come up with a place he wanted to go. When I said "it's there or home" the tune soon changed.
Handwriting: he holds his pencil add, but has neat writing. He scored above average in coordination and gross and fine motor skills.
If I head in a different direction to go to the store, he will notice and ask where we are going, but he doesn't have a problem if we go a different way.
Sometimes he wants to do thing his way, but I can easily convince him there's another way(If he sees it to be faster or easier) We have always taught the kids, that there is always more than one way to do things, just b/c someone does it differently, doesn't mean it's wrong.
My husband and I have been discussing this issue for a while now, and have come to the conclusion that we will be making an appointment with a child Psychologist who has lots of experience with gifted children.
Please google Semantic Pragmatic Speech Disorder and tell me if that sounds like your son.
No, he does not take language literally, sarcasm runs high in my house. He scored a 155 In Antonyms.
He does enjoy pleasing his parents. As in nonconformist (Ex. Friday night is is movie or game night. I brought up the idea of playing Planet Earth, witch they both enjoy playing. My son will wait till everyone has answered and give a different answer. When I told him we were going to play the game, he was fine with it. He was looking for a reason to argue. Saturday night we told the boys to get ready, b/c we were taking them out to dinner. My son started complaining he didn't want to go to that restaurant, but could not come up with a place he wanted to go. When I said "it's there or home" the tune soon changed.
Handwriting: he holds his pencil add, but has neat writing. He scored above average in coordination and gross and fine motor skills.
If I head in a different direction to go to the store, he will notice and ask where we are going, but he doesn't have a problem if we go a different way.
Sometimes he wants to do thing his way, but I can easily convince him there's another way(If he sees it to be faster or easier) We have always taught the kids, that there is always more than one way to do things, just b/c someone does it differently, doesn't mean it's wrong.
My husband and I have been discussing this issue for a while now, and have come to the conclusion that we will be making an appointment with a child Psychologist who has lots of experience with gifted children.
It is common for children on the spectrum to find the school environment much harder because they are dealing with so much more from an incoming sensory processing point of view, as well as having to work out what they should be doing in class.
The difference between 'autistic spectrum disorder' and 'aspergers' tends to be that those with aspergers tend to have more obsessions and their development of speech tends to be age appropriate. However, most parents of children diagnosed with Aspergers still say that their children have language problems specifically with semantics, eg. they take language literally. Please google Semantic Pragmatic Speech Disorder and tell me if that sounds like your son.
Is your son able to organise, plan and sequence his work. Does he have good time management. If not google Executive Function Disorder to see if that sounds like a possibility.
Also google Sensory Integration Disorder as the sound and tactile sensitivities could be down to that. SID can affect any/all of the senses and it is also about modulation so sensory perception and processing varies throughout the day and day to day. So my son may appear deaf when I call his name, cover his ears if I put the vaccum on, enjoy making noise like popping balloons, go to and enjoy drum club, throw a tantrum because there is too much noise in the classroom. And all that differing response can happen in the same day. Other days he copes as everyone else. The senses are visual, auditory, tactile, smell, taste, balance and co-ordination.
Another cause of auditory problems is Central Auditory Processing Disorder. This can cause several problems eg. the person may not be able to habituate to background noise, they may hear sounds differently causing the mispronounciation of letters/words, appearing deaf, not being able to home in on a person speaking if others are also speaking in the same room. I have this problem myself.
What is your sons handwriting like?
Those on the spectrum also don't tend to have any desire to please parents/teachers/peers etc. This can come across as being non-compliance, argumentative etc because they will do things in the way they want to do them and they will believe that their way is the right way. They also want to stick with the things that they are good at and avoid everything else.
He may have some traits of Aspergers, but not enough to get a diagnosis. But his speech needs to be assessed by a professional who has experience of speech disorders in general and also those associated with those on the spectrum. The SALT is also the person to assess a child's social interaction skills.
If he is given the all clear by the SALT in both those areas then he can't be given a diagnosis of Aspergers. But in the areas he does have difficulties eg. sensory an Occupational Therapist should assess him and give advice to school on how to help him cope and not become overwhelmed or frustrated in school. He should also be screened for CAPD if you think its relevant.
Being able to retell a story is not the same as being able to understand the meaning behind it and then use that knowledge and apply it in another situations. A concrete thinker with high ability maybe able to deduce the meaning behind the story, but may not be able to apply that knowledge into other situations. An experienced SALT would be able to assess these abilities.
If he needs routine and structure then he won't conform and do things a different way because the way he knows will appear better to him. And doing things in a different way makes the thing you are doing different or even unrecognisable for some children on the spectrum. So there is a rigid way of thinking, a concrete/inflexible way of doing things. This can also cause problems with generalisation ie. a child will learn to do a task in a certain way, and if any aspect of that task is changed (and that may be the environment, the day/time, the persons present, the order in which it is done etc) they are unable to do it. The severity of this varies from child to child, but a gifted child with Aspergers or traits of Aspergers may just come across as being awkward and refusing to do things differently. Would your son object if you took a different route to school or to the shops? Are there any other instances you can think of when he wants to stick to his way of doing things rather than another way (which may be quicker and easier than his way).
The difference between 'autistic spectrum disorder' and 'aspergers' tends to be that those with aspergers tend to have more obsessions and their development of speech tends to be age appropriate. However, most parents of children diagnosed with Aspergers still say that their children have language problems specifically with semantics, eg. they take language literally. Please google Semantic Pragmatic Speech Disorder and tell me if that sounds like your son.
Is your son able to organise, plan and sequence his work. Does he have good time management. If not google Executive Function Disorder to see if that sounds like a possibility.
Also google Sensory Integration Disorder as the sound and tactile sensitivities could be down to that. SID can affect any/all of the senses and it is also about modulation so sensory perception and processing varies throughout the day and day to day. So my son may appear deaf when I call his name, cover his ears if I put the vaccum on, enjoy making noise like popping balloons, go to and enjoy drum club, throw a tantrum because there is too much noise in the classroom. And all that differing response can happen in the same day. Other days he copes as everyone else. The senses are visual, auditory, tactile, smell, taste, balance and co-ordination.
Another cause of auditory problems is Central Auditory Processing Disorder. This can cause several problems eg. the person may not be able to habituate to background noise, they may hear sounds differently causing the mispronounciation of letters/words, appearing deaf, not being able to home in on a person speaking if others are also speaking in the same room. I have this problem myself.
What is your sons handwriting like?
Those on the spectrum also don't tend to have any desire to please parents/teachers/peers etc. This can come across as being non-compliance, argumentative etc because they will do things in the way they want to do them and they will believe that their way is the right way. They also want to stick with the things that they are good at and avoid everything else.
He may have some traits of Aspergers, but not enough to get a diagnosis. But his speech needs to be assessed by a professional who has experience of speech disorders in general and also those associated with those on the spectrum. The SALT is also the person to assess a child's social interaction skills.
If he is given the all clear by the SALT in both those areas then he can't be given a diagnosis of Aspergers. But in the areas he does have difficulties eg. sensory an Occupational Therapist should assess him and give advice to school on how to help him cope and not become overwhelmed or frustrated in school. He should also be screened for CAPD if you think its relevant.
Being able to retell a story is not the same as being able to understand the meaning behind it and then use that knowledge and apply it in another situations. A concrete thinker with high ability maybe able to deduce the meaning behind the story, but may not be able to apply that knowledge into other situations. An experienced SALT would be able to assess these abilities.
If he needs routine and structure then he won't conform and do things a different way because the way he knows will appear better to him. And doing things in a different way makes the thing you are doing different or even unrecognisable for some children on the spectrum. So there is a rigid way of thinking, a concrete/inflexible way of doing things. This can also cause problems with generalisation ie. a child will learn to do a task in a certain way, and if any aspect of that task is changed (and that may be the environment, the day/time, the persons present, the order in which it is done etc) they are unable to do it. The severity of this varies from child to child, but a gifted child with Aspergers or traits of Aspergers may just come across as being awkward and refusing to do things differently. Would your son object if you took a different route to school or to the shops? Are there any other instances you can think of when he wants to stick to his way of doing things rather than another way (which may be quicker and easier than his way).
Thank for the reply! I re-read my post and perhaps I made a long story too short. I didn't supply enough information.
For example can your son listen to verbal instructions and carry them out; can he listen to a story and deduce information from it; does he have any Auditory Processing or Processing Delays; does he understand humour; can he multi-task from a sensory point of view eg. can he listen and look; does he ever appear deaf when you call his name.
He doesn't have a problem with verbal instructions. He can listen to a story and tell gist of story and tell you story in detail. He doesn't have any Processing delays. He understands humor quite well. He comes up with his own jokes. He can listen and look. Sometimes he will not answer my questions, but if I call his name he doesn't have a problem, unless he's watching TV.(LOL)
Does your son socialise generally on the same level as his peers?
He likes to play with children younger, same age, and older.
Does he have interests or obsessions?
This is the most difficult question to answer. He loves cars, planes, trains, and subs, but cars are his favorite. My husband and I collect cars, so cars is the number 1 subject in my house.
Does he have any sensory issues?
Yes, he has sound and textile sensitivities. He is also emotionally sensitive.
Does he throw tantrums?
No.
Does he get upset at changes in routine or doing things in a different way.
At home he doesn't have a problem, but he does at school.
It is quite possible he is gifted.
My son had a range of percentiles ie. 93% in areas such as spatial awareness and pattern recognition against a 2% for understanding verbal instructions. Most of his other scores were around average, but again he got much better results on other tests that were carried out which did not depend on language - however my son is High Functioning Autistic and not Aspergers.
Verbal 94 percentile, nonverbal reasoning 58%, spatial 82%, General conceptual ability 86%
Can you tell me what the difference is between Aspergers and Autism??
Can you give some details about the behavioural issues?
He is strong willed. If he doesn't want to do something at school, he will flat out refuse. He is also a nonconformist and argumentative. He is not happy with school, and tells me he hates it. He feels it's baby work.
I wish all of this was easier to identify, nothing seems cut and dry. I can not put my finger on one specific thing, to give me the identification I need.
I hope this additional information gives a better picture.
I really appreciate any opinions.
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