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Just a few thoughts on autoimmunity
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Just a few thoughts on autoimmunity

I could have put this topic in about 4 autoimmune categories.  I have 4 AD so far, diagnosed, and that's not counting *what I believe to be MS* and who knows what else.

Just a few thoughts about autoimmune diseases...

It drives me crazy thinking, should I avoid Gluten?  Was it all of the vaccinations I received?  Was it because I never had Chicken Pox (or the anti-body), despite being exposed to it repeatedly as a child, as an adult, and even had the vaccination for it while I was pregnant?  And yet, no anti-body for it is still in me.  Is it because the world is so clean, that our immune systems go into a recluse phase because they don't think they have to work as hard?  Is it molecular mimicry, like in Rheumatic Fever, in ALL cases, but we just don't know that?  Is it because hormonal birth control was invented?  It is something in the plastic, the water, the environment?  Or, is it THAT easy to say, we don't know, it's "probably" a combination of things?  

Your thoughts?  
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Avatar m tn
It is all about the toxins we get in our bodies which make us sick.  Mercury, Lead, Arsenic, steriods, viruses, parasites to numerous to mention them all.  When we get these things in our bodies our bodies have to get them out.  When we get too much of this stuff in our bodies we get sick.  We have to give our bodies the nutrients it needs to get rid of this stuff.  The drugs the doctors give us just cover up this problem.  We all must design a plan for ourselve since we are all different.  Important to get the knowledge as to how we can follow a healthy lifestyle.  Everyone must take control of their own life and address their individual illness by trying to eliminate the toxins and giving the body what it needs to get rid of the toxins which are in the body.  Real healing comes from the body.
745975 tn?1258964522
I've struggled with those thoughts myself. When i was 9 and diagnosed with ideopathic scoliosis (not an autoimmune disease but still....) I thought it was something I was responsible for. My parents changed my diet we went to the chiropractor, and we tried EVERY alternative. But at age 13 I needed surgery anyways. I've lived my life extremely healthfully, I only eat whole foods and never touch processed food and still ended up getting more then one autoimmune disease in my mid 20's. (by the way i do not use hormonal birth control).  The harsh truth is that it is NOT known what causes these diseases. There is a genetic factor, and it is unclear if any environmental factors are contributers. I also think each autoimmune disease are all very different from each other and probably have different triggers.

To answer your question if you should avoid glutens, I would say.... probably. I do not think it will reverse or cure your current AI issues..... but human beings were not designed to be eating grains and it's really not good for the body. You might actually feel better by cutting them out of your diet even though it's extremely difficult. Everyone i know who has gone gluten free reports feeling a LOT better in general. It's not as easy as it seems and it is a life style change, so it takes a big commitment.

I started going gluten free when my brother was diagnosed with Celiac and i feel a whole lot better. It has not rid my body of my thyroid disease or gotten rid of my antinuclear anitbodies, but one thing it does do is eliminate the option of really bad carbs and most processed food and, as a result I've become really thin and fit.

1080243 tn?1262978963
Hi Kellymgo yes all these autoimmune deseases are all caused by toxins I have been very involved in this subject and spent thousands of £s in having blood tests everyone I come across have more than trace metals in their body which are stored in fats and bone. A group of us with MS autoimmune problems all share the same lab results.
I have worked out we have all been exposed with either toxins or pesticides one time or other. Arsenic is a real problem it can cause debetus. We all need to live a toxic free lifestyle which is difficult given that benzene is in so many products.
This subject is so important to make people aware, thanks for bringing up the subject. tarter  
Avatar n tn
I have not been to this forum in awhile mostly due to the fact that people here seem to be stuck in the PROBLEM and not the solution.  I've continued my education and reading and researching into autoimmune issues etc.  I feel that i am very well educated on this subject overall.

I challenge you all to go back and study what "health" really means.  I see people on this thread and many others here on this forum and on all other health forums that I've been in over the years talk about CAUSES.  True , most of us want to know what CAUSED the illnesses that we have so we can AVOID them, have our family avoid them, and by all means try and educate others on avoiding them too.  HOWEVER
one thing I don't see addressed enough is the IMMUNE SYSTEM itself.

It only makes sense that IF you have an immune system that is functioning as it could/would/will deal with any kind of toxin overload and or exposure of heavy metals etc.  Now here in lies the issue...we all have autoimmune far as I am concerned there is no "professional"..medical, alternative or otherwise who has this issue "cornered"..meaning the jury is STILL out on what the causes are...I have my own theories and I have come to believe in the end you must begin at the beginning..YOUR FOOD.

Will changing your food CURE you? I have no idea.  I do know the amount of information I am finding that links our diets to our diseases is HUGE..I mean absolutley HUGE!  and where do we find this information?  why don't we hear more about it on the eveing news?  why do we not know that the higher the animal products consumption the higher the cancer rate ( of all cancers)..why do we still continue to hear on the news that cancer has gotten better in certain areas of the body when only they are manipulating the statistics to "look" as if it has...why is the American Cancer Society telling people the wrong information and getting away with it STILL!

See if you feed your body what it needs ( and finding out what that is is everyone's individual responsibility), your immune system is able to function properly.

is there MULTIPLE reasons for disease? YES!  Do we need to know CAUSES, YES!  But most of these I have found are no brainers.  Obviously MERCURY in any form INSIDE the body, whether through amalagam/mercury fillings or immunizations or chemicals in the air is BAD FOR YOU!  Can you detox from the mercury YES! I have done doing it...sterified fatty acids engulf the mercury and take it OUT of the body, yes even fat tissue...there are MANY SOLUTIONS..but first you must be willing to learn everything you can..and I mean everything..not just what the media gives you.

Avatar n tn
An interesting thing I have been able to pinpoint is animal products have caused my "fine tremors" and my irregular heart beat.  Hands down...I've experimented on myself and found when i eat animal products ( meat, diary, cheese, fish..anything animal related) it causes the heart beat to go wacky and my fine tremors to return.  Now I saw a movie that EXPLAINS why this is ( Healing Cancer from Inside) I don't have cancer...but in my quest to understand how the body functions, how the body heals and how people have CURED themselves of all kinds of illnesses when the doctors have told them they have no idea what's wrong, I am looking at EVERYTHING that is available.  And no I can't look and read absolutley everything..there aren't enough hours in a day. lol Animal products cause 100's of issues in the body...100's!!! Could it be that they cause autoimmune issues as well?

Ok second belief is that 99.9% of all illnesses can be reversed.  I've been raised with this belief, it is part of who I am.  This alone can cause a person to thrive or just survive this journey of life.  Look into books that talk about mind over matter etc...authors like Wayne Dyer, Dr. Gabriel Cousins M.D., Dr. Joel Fuhrman M.D., have much to offer a person who wants to heal.

Third medicine is huge when it comes to healing.  You first must believe without a doubt that you can get better.  You are NOT an aimless victim in all of this...everything is on purpose and YOU are IN CHARGE of your destiny!  period!  I have personally seen many people's lives improve with just a diet change and a positive mind set some still have dis-ease sure...but you wouldn't know it!
Are some compeletly healed YES! and you would know that because most of them tell people what has happened to them.

So back on point: autoimmune is showing up in today's society in HUGE numbers because it is TIME, I think, that we pay attention to the one thing that has the power to heal us and that's our food supply in the United is being run by big business and it's time to simplify our food and our this a tall order to fill, you it doable on a daily basis , absolutley.  All you have to do is be ready to make the change...find people to support you in those changes...and begin to take back the control of your life and your health.

Eat well, live well, be well.
Avatar n tn
anytime you can rid the body of something it must expend energy to "fix" frees up that energy for healing. ( this can be pesticides, herbacides, hormones in meat, gluten, dairy, cheese, toxic metals in your mouth, fat, bones, breathing in air from a diesel truck, plastic bottles, hair sprays, fingernail polish, supplements with added this and added that..etc.)

For example..if I go eat Mc. D's for lunch, my body has to expend energy all the rest of the day and maybe even into tomorrow to try and break down and get rid of the toxins in that meal...IF instead I ate an organic green salad and an apple for lunch..there is MUCH less energy expended to digest that meal AND since it is HIGH in nutrient value it is actually going to HELP my body do what it needs and if I have say an infection or cancer ( that I'm not even aware of yet, most cancers take over 10 years to grow to detection) then my body is healing and keeping me reality doing what it's suppose to do.

Now look at how many times over just the last month you have eaten something that is taking up energy and NOT feeding you...leaving you in a deficiet? no wonder we're sick ;-)

FOOD is the place to start, we eat it 3-4-5 times a day..and I say go raw organic for just 6 weeks...that in and of itself is NOT going to do any WILL go through detox...a wholefoods diet is NOT going to heal the body back to health because there are so many things you have not been told about WHOLEFOODS...the information is SO confusing...I am finding out myself what raw organic can do.  It's simply amazing this information is buried so deep most can't have access to it unless they look it the right places.

Guess I'm on a soap box apologies
Avatar m tn
I love to read your post.  Only the body can heal itself.  The drugs given by the doctors just cover up these problems.  These drugs are toxic and the body must eventually deal with this problem.  I had a friend with cancer of the liver.  She went through the chemotherapy and after the doctors told her there was no hope she went to Mexico for nutritional treatment.  Problem is she waited too long and at some point the body can no longer heal itself.  Diet is why we have an explosion in health care problems and it can only get worse with the things most of the people are eating.

If you look at it logically why do we have an explosion of all these neurological diseases and names I had never heard of when I was young.  What has suddenly made everyone sick?  When I was young you couldn't buy hamberger helper.  It didn't exist.  Many of these processed foods didn't exist then.  All these man made foods are a real problem and have a part in the illness we are seeing.  All these preservatives, pesticides and steriods are taking a toll on the body.  To give an example: I make my own muffins.  After about 3 days they start turning moldy because they do not have the hydrogenated oils and preservatives to keep the bacteria from attacking it.  We have bacteria in our stomack which processes the food we eat.  If the bacteria outside us can't attack this food how can we expect the bacteria in our stomack to process this food.  Many do not realize the body is actually starving because we are not giving it the food it needs.  

Glad you are feeling better.  
Avatar n tn
You are EXACTLY right in all that you stated above.
And until people wake up and stop being the victim in all of this they aren't going to get better they will get worse.
Sorry to hear about your friend but that is the grim truth, some people get the information they need too late in the game.  The chemo was probably the last straw for her, the body couldn't come back from that.
I'm all about education.  But people need to begin to put their dollars where they need to put their dollars.  They need to educate themselves about THE FOOD SUPPLY in the United States!  It IS a mess and it is SOOOOOO ADDICTIVE....fat is an appetite have to do whatever it takes to get off the fast food and then the processed fresh whole raw food most of the day...then the body atleast has somewhat of a chance to repair the damage you've done to it all the years you've been eating what America eats...just look at The Biggest Loser....use to be you could only find those size people once in they have an entire show and the people are getting BIGGER every year...I love the Biggest Loser but wish they would do a RAW biggest loser lol :-) I picked Danny at the beginning of this season...I trust they all have started to work with their emotional issues...we need support to stay healthy with all the bad food we've been trained to eat by the tons!

I'm teaching 18 workshops and books studies Jan-Apr in my coaching business and 1/2 of them are about educating people about the food they are putting in their bodies.
I'm still losing weight..down to 168 now...and feeling good...want to get off the thyroid meds but that will come in time or it won't , not HUNG UP there...

If you want to see something awesome go to youtube and search for Dave the Raw Food Trucker...look at how this man has changed his life..he's done with cancer and diabetes....FOOD makes all the difference in the world!

Good to hear from you want2bik1 :-)
280891 tn?1261016650
I'm not arguing with anyone, but raw food isn't the *panacea* for AI diseases.  All I know is that it has something to do with our immune systems (of course) and something to do a wacky gene that hasn't been clearly identified yet.  

If raw food is your thing, good for you.  My theory is that you only live once, we're all going to die anyways, so you might as well enjoy yourself.  So, I'll have Burger King once every 2-3 weeks or so, simply because I enjoy it.  Not eating it is not going to reverse my rheumatic fever, grave's disease, vitiligo, or MS... And whatever else live throws at me in my short 28 years on the planet.  Might as well be happy.  :)  
Avatar m tn
please google the marshall protocol. i am new to this website and dont know if its been discussed but it may revolutionize the whole treatment of autoimmune disease if he is right. the nih is now funding further research on his theory which has cured mutiple cases of autoimmune disease including his own. he had sarcoidosis and now his cxr and labs are clear. he is developing the attention of many in the medical community right now. check it out! good luck.
Avatar n tn
I didn't say raw food was the cure all.  You didn't understand what I wrote..  One reason why I don't come here very often.  People want to be sick, they want to give all the responsibility to someone else, to a toxic chemical, to a gene expression etc. I'm not saying you are , however.

Yes by all means be happy.

I'm looking for intelligent conversation with people who have a vested interest in healing the body back to health.

Raw food IS healing my Hashimoto's, Pernicious Anemia, Pre-Diabetes and Hypothyroid Disease.  But I'm not the only one.  There are literally thousands who are seeing healing of thier chronic diseases that their doctors once told them couldn't and would never be cured. You can choose to do your own investigating or not.  

I'm just offering it up for discussion and one "answer" to the autoimmune issue.

The "gene" theory is just's not about genes unless you take one step backwards and look at WHY the gene expresses itself at a certain time...and that is directly related to the food we are eating. There is a direct link. Read Eat To Live by Dr. Fuhrman M.D. or Dr. Gabriel Cousins M.D. The "bad" food causes a breakdown in the chain of health.  Therefore the "gene" has an OPPORTUNITY to be expressed and manifest. You don't HAVE to manifest an autoimmune is through lifestyle choices that it has been able to express itself at the time it did in your life.  Lifestyle choices are just that, a choice.  The power to change your health picture is yours and yours alone.

If you want symptoms relieved go to an MD.  If you want health and healing go to a healer. ;-)  That's pretty simple.

I'm sorry you felt like I or anyone else was arguing with you.
I thought this was a forum of dicussion.
I'm only sharing what I have learned and have tried out on myself in the last 8-12 months.

Be well,
Avatar n tn
Most people cannot accept the fact that something as simple as food (organic, raw, steamed) can heal.
It can, I'm proof.
~ Amy~
And wouldn't it be worth it to try it out on yourself?  instead of using drugs that cause harm to the body?  food , the last i checked costs LESS than drugs...and it helps the body it's a win win? right?
Avatar m tn
If you have MS you might want to google "Dr. Swank Ms diet".  He has had excellent results with his diet in treating people with MS.  He started his research in the 1950's and has had good results.  There is web site supporting his diet.  The Paleo Diet has also shown success in treating these neurological diseases.  If you want to find out why you have MS Hal Huggins has a book "Solving The MS Mystery Help Hope and Recovery".  It is my understanding that the earlier in the disease you address the problem the better chance you have of recovery.  Is it all about our genes being messed up?  Maybe,but  something is messing these genes up.  Why is the immune system attacking the body?  Maybe the immune system is doing what it is designed to do.  You get mercury or any number of foreign substances in the cell the immune system see the cell as the enemy.  The doctors can give you drugs which will fool the immune system but the real path to good health is getting these toxins out of the body.  Why are we seeing such an explosion in these diseases today?  This is just some information in case you ever start feeling bad and need something to try.    
280891 tn?1261016650
No one wants to "be sick".  What a silly thing to write.  

You HAVE to focus on the problem before you find the solution.  

Mercury isn't killing us.  Gee, I wonder if all the Mad Hatters in the previous centuries had AI diseases.  Some one should research this mind-blowing connection regarding mercury and AI diseases.  Sarcasm aside...

And what about all the rotten food and parasites people ate before modern refrigeration?

Surely, you can say, "Well,  people didn't live long enough to find that out".

No, no.  AI diseases mostly strike women in their child-bearing years.  So... Obviously it has something to do with hormonal changes (puberty, ovulation, pregnancy, and menopause).  That's my theory anyways.  

What's my real theory?  The body does an incredible job at eliminating toxins.  It's what we have a liver and kidney for.  It's amazing.  People can drink alcohol and smoke a number of substances and take Tylenol, and guess what?  Eventually it's gone.  "Toxins" are not hidden parasites that hang out in extracellular material, people!

My theory is this:  We're too healthy for our own good.  And our immune systems say, "Hey, we don't need to fight off all of this... We don't have to deal with polio, or small pox, or measles anymore... We rarely have to fight off the common cold, so we're gonna take a break".

And then, something goes wacky.  This is where molecular mimicry comes in.  And this isn't some far-fetched, psychotic theory and it has nothing to do with "toxins" and "raw food".  And *one* idea of mine is that maybe more AI diseases are caused by molecular mimicry, yet we don't know it.  

For those of you who don't know, rheumatic fever is a classic example of molecular mimicry.  Basically, you get strep throat and it goes untreated.  And that's okay 99.97% of the time, because the immune system recognizes and kills the streptococcal bacteria, as it should.  In rheumatic fever, however, your immune system develops an antibody cross-reactivity that mistakenly attacks the cells of your myocardium, simply because they *vaguely resemble* the strep bacteria cell.  Odd, eh?  

If anyone has any *rational* theories on this in particular, which has nothing to do with toxins or food, and doesn't mention some quack doctor's website or book, and can back it up with some form of a medical journal or article, I'd be grateful.

Thanks in advance.  

Avatar m tn
Mercury is killing us.  They use mercury in pesticides to kill pest.  If you get enough mercury in your body it will kill you.  How much does it take, It all depends on your genetics and how well your body can deal with it.  In the 1800's the people working with hats and using mercury got very sick from dealing with this substance.  They called it mad hatters disease but now we have fancy names for all of these diseases.  No one denies that mercury is hazardous.  The only question you should ask is why is the mercury the dentist puts in your mouth hazardous before it goes in and hazardous when it comes out. Why is this mercury safe when it is in your mouth.  Doesn't make sense does it.   There are scientific instrument which can show you the mercury given off by the fillings in your mouth is higher than the levels the EPA  allows.  They put these fillings in animal such as sheep and monkey.  After they kill these animals and examine their organs they find extremely high levels of mercury in the organs.  There have been studies done in many of the foreign countries suggesting mercury may be a cause for many of these neurological problems.  Some countries have ban these amalgam fillings.  Hal Huggins has dealt with patients with MS and other neurological diseases for 35 years and he is not quack.  Many people have been given their lives back because of what he has done.  He has tested these people before removing their dental problem and found elevated white blood cell levels.  After removing the problems from their mouths the white blood cell levels go back to normal.  To me this is proof that what he is doing is working.  Weston Price did a root canal on a sixteen year old boy who died shortly after that of a heart attack.  He implanted the root tip of this tooth in 100 rabbits and they all died of a heart attack.  He spent the rest of his life researching the thing which had killed his son.  These people are not making this up.  When you see a young kid die playing sports and they want to tell you it is all genetics.  What they do not tell you is the childs heart is full of mercury.

The FDA has discovered the dosage of Tylenol may be too high and is harming the liver in some people.  Some people who take this drug die of liver failure.  It is not a good thing to kill off your customers too fast.  Are you aware that many of these drugs which were said to be safe have later been determine to be harmful?   Many children have defects because of drugs which the mother took which were suppose to be safe.  Women who are pregant should not be eating fish because of the mercury problem?  I could go on and on with evidence.  The evidence is out there.  

As for you Rheumatic Fever my book "Prescription for Natural Healing" suggest:

Acidophilus-- taken after any antibiotic to replace the good bacteria
Garlic -- 2 capsules 3 times a day which is good for fighting infects
Vitamin C with bioflavanoids-5,000-20,000 mg in divided doses to boost the immune system.
There are other things recommended so if you are interested get the book.

I can relate to why people want to deny the facts.  I denied it for 60 years.  I had to get really sick before I could accept what was going on.  People enjoyed eating before we had McDoanlds or Berger King.  When I was young we didn't have these fast food places and I enjoyed eating.  The only way to find out if diet will work is to try it.  It has worked for me and that is a fact.  It is not easy doing something different but it is worth it when you feel better.    

745975 tn?1258964522
It will be 100% pointless to carry on an argument with some of these people. They will say the same thing over and over and will not respond to the facts that you present that 100% counter their claims. It's almost pointless to try, because you can't argue with someone that cherry picks their information.

First i need to address when people are saying stuff like "the reason why we see so many people with autoimmune diseases now is because of the toxins we are now eating". WRONG. totally wrong. The reason why you are hearing more about auto immune diseases is because they are finally getting classified and diagnosed.  For example; Lupus was not really classified as an autoimmune disease until the late 1940's even though symptoms of the disease had been described in the 1800, and recognized as a systematic disease in the late 1800's. Modern times and research has allowed us to identify auto antibodies and make diagnoses where that was once not possible. Even up until a few years ago someone suffering from many many symptoms similar to lupus but not lupus would just get a lupus DX, because they didn't know what else to call what they had. Now they know for example, that there are antibodies that attack the blood and make it thicken, and they can call that disorder anti-phospholipid antibody syndrom (syndrome), and it can be treated at it is, and not treated as lupus (something that it is not), or someone can get a Dx of Mixed Connective Tissue disorder and not a false dx of Lupus. (This is significant because people take relief in finally having a solid correct diagnosis, and it is also beneficial for health insurance reasons.)......

FURTHERMORE... autoimmune disease in general was not accepted into medical mainstream until the 1960's..... so it would make sense if want2bik1 is 60 years old, that during a great portion of his or her life, literally nothing was known about auto-immune reactions, which is why he/she believes that auto-immunity is a new phenomenon that cropped up with McDonalds and Burger King. The only thing that cropped up with those franchises is obesity.... Autoimmune disease is not new, people have been sick forever, we are just now beginning to learn what is causing it. For the record, research into molecular mimicry did not even begin until the 1980's so this is new and important research into autoimmune process and i hope it leads towards finding cures.

Moving on.....I think the whole molecular mimicry thing is FACINATING. It's unbelievable what can go wrong in the body.  When my brother was getting his PhD/MD he did some research on this topic when he was working specifically on the central nervous system. I wish he was on here because i believe he would have a lot more to contribute to the discussion then I ever could.

I'm in a similar boat as you, KellyMGo.... though with different sets of auto-immune problems. I'm a 26 year old female (105 lbs) and much like you was in tip top shape. I would run 6 miles a day, always ate healthfully and am one of the lucky ones that never had fillings. I randomly started feeling ill a few months after a thoracoplasy (major rib surgery) that i had in 2006.... After that event, i never stopped feeling tired all the time, but i chalked it up to working long hours. Then when I moved to the tropics with my husband and wasn't working, but still felt sick, I knew something was wrong.  Eventually I got my hashimotos DX in 2008. Oddly enough, my Hashimotos antibodies came out of nowhere. Since my brother had it, I had been tested a few times and did not seem to have the disease. And then one day was tested and had all SORTS of auto antibodies. I always wonder, was it the trauma of the surgery that did it, a mild infection, or something of the sort??? I have to agree it must be in some ways brought on by hormones. After all, they are the chemicals in our body, that tell our body what to do. Also, it would explain why some women who have autoimmune diseases feel significantly better while pregnant... the body has to change it's immune process while carrying a baby in order to accommodate (and not attack) a child that is not 100% the mothers own genetic material. Incredible stuff, but a tad more complicated then writing it off to eating, breathing or drinking toxins ;)

I also think the systems in the body are in delicate balance and when something is a little off, it can throw off many other things. That's why it seems with autoimmune issues, when it rains it pours. When i have a T4 hormone (for my thyroid) increase or decrease, it completely alters my menstruation cycle for the month, and technically this hormone should have nothing to do with that system of my body!

As for the people who think mercury and toxins cause all autoimmune disease.... it's rubbish. Yeah, sure mercury is poisonous to the human body (obvious), but mercury does not "go into the cell". That statement right there tells me this person has no clue how mercury poisoning works, or anything at all about cellular biology, and very little about auto-immune diseases in general.  when i see this person posting on just about every topic, from people coming on here asking about Lupus, MS, Graves, they always say exactly the same thing " food can cure you". What this person does not understand is that those are different diseases, with different causes, and different treatments.

Anyways, this whole diet theory is just too simple for my taste. I know I am not an expert on the topic of autoimmune diseases. I'm just a girl, who was doing great and then hit my mid-twenties and began really struggling with my health.
Avatar m tn
Of coarse I am going to say the same thing because that is what the problem is.  The drugs will cover up the sympthoms but eventually the body will have to get rid of this drug.  I explained to you that many of the drugs that the FDA approved have latter been determined toxic and removed from the market.  The FDA reports the level of Tylenol is too high and is causing liver failure in some people.  What if you were one of the people who couldn't tolerate  the level and died of liver failure?  

Most of the experts agree that mercury is a problem because the FDA recommends that pregenant mother refrain from eating fish which is contaminated by mercury.  It is pretty much accepted that mercury in the mothers body can get into the baby and hurt the child's development.  What ever the mother has in her body will be in the baby's body.  The mother can deal with this posion alot better.  The baby does not have a good immune system yet and it would have a hard time dealing with this posion.  There is no arguement I know of saying mercury is good for you.  The real question is how much mercury it takes to make you sick?  What do they call the disease mercury can cause.  MS, ALS, Parkinstons or any of the many neurological diseases.   It all depends on your genetics as to what disease you end up with.  Check out the numbers and you will see all these disease are rising and why?  My thoughts are why take the risk if you know this stuff is poison. It is pretty much accepted that mercury can get into the cells and damage the development of the baby.  I do not know where you have gotten your information as to the fact that mercury cannot get into our cells but I would suggest you google "mercury toxic" and read some of those articles.  The American Dental Association has been telling us mercury in our teeth is safe but I have a problem with their argument.  They treat mercury as a toxic element before the put it into your mouth.  Mercury is a toxic element when they take it out of your mouth.  When the mercury is in your mouth it is perfectly safe.  Can you explain this?  There are scientific instruments which can measure the level given off by your fillings.  Do you not believe what these instruments are showing?   There have been studies done on sheep and monkeys which show mercury from dental fillings have traveled throughout the body ending up in various organs.  Do you think this is a big lie?   All the evidence suggest mercury will make you feel very bad before you die?

The body was healing itself a long time before there were doctors.  Eating healthy will allow your body a chance to heal itself..  My question is why not give it a try.  What have you got to lose?  If it doesn't work go back to eating the grease bergers and fries.  You might find that eating healthy is enjoyable and it could help your problem.  As I get older I realize how much I do not know.  One thing I know for sure is eating raw fruits and vegetables has made me feel better.  Hope everyone can realize what is making them sick so they can get well again.  If the drugs do not do it give the diet a try.  
745975 tn?1258964522
I truly appreciate your persistency. I can agree that too much mercury is bad. I don't think i've ever heard anyone say that Mercury is good for consumption in the body. That is a fact. I also concede that there is evolution in drugs and drug development. Okay, so some drugs can have a negative effect on the liver, some drugs have been deemed dangerous and pulled off the market.... other drugs are literally life saving drugs and there is no reason to clump them all together and say they are toxic and not needed.

Now I need to address the argument about pregnant women and mercury. The reason why it is not recommended for women to eat a lot of certain types of fish because it is a contaminant that effects the brain development and nervous systems of babies. NOT because it causes immune problems in the baby. it literally has NOTHING to do with the immune system.  The American Journal of Preventative Medicine does not recommend pregnant women cut fish completely out of their diet, they recommend avoiding shark, swordfish, king mackerel and tilefish. Not all fish have mercury concentrations and fish contains nutrients which are critical for the development of the baby and health of the mother.

In addition, you are not realizing that each of these autoimmune disease are DIFFERENT diseases. They are not caused by mercury toxicity.... mercury toxicity is it's own problem, not related to the majority of autoimmune conditions. In your above posts you mention that people with mercury poisoning often have a high white blood cell count, but MOST people with chronic illnesses like autoimmune diseases have LOW white blood cell count. Why? because an autoimmune disease is NOT an infection it is NOT the body trying to rid out toxins and i think you are confusing autoimmune with auto-toxicity, they are two distinct things and i believe you are on the wrong forum.

Furthermore, you are not answering my simple argument which is that I eat basically the paleo diet that you recommend, I have no mercury exposure (I don't even have ONE filling), and I really don't like fish except sushi grade sashimi which i just started liking with in the last year (after i already had my autoimmune DX), and salmon is not a fish that is on the list to worry about anyways.

Lastly the reason why it is SOOOO frustrating having a discussion with you, is because it's almost as though you didn't even READ my posts. You said yet again that these diseases are on the rise... and my argument to that is that awareness for the diseases is rising and so is the population so it only makes sense that we see more and more people coming out of the woodworks with autoimmune problems. Also most of these diseases have not been classified until recent times (like the last 30 years), Hello! you are not going to see someone with MS until it is classified and recognized as a disease.  For example, MS was first described in the late 1800's but it was not until myelin was discovered that any real knowledge was reached and it was all the way until the late 1940's that it was recognized as an autoimmune condition. The criteria for what defined MS was not even formed until the mid 1960's...... So again, research on autoimmune diseases is very very NEW. The reason why we are seeing more and more people get autoimmune DX is that we FINALLY have names to describe the illnesses that have been around forever.

I don't think anyone has ever argued with you about mercury in dental filling or mercury poisoning... I'm sure mercury poisoning is horrible but the symptoms (though in many ways might be somewhat similar in some AI diseases), do NOT mimic the symptoms of all autoimmune diseases. In addition, mercury does NOT enter the cell, and any simple google search will explain how mercury poisoning works. There is zero evidence that mercury causes autoimmune diseases. It might be possible that it triggers a change in the body that might then result in a disease.... but the mercury itself does NOT enter the cell and cause the body to attack itself, period.

You cannot explain why it is the vast majority of auto-immune disease effect women of child bearing years. It's not because we have more fillings, or eat more mercury loaded fish, or eat more fries and burgers. It's hormones and genetics. I'm not asking you to answer this, because no one really knows the exact answer and it will take more research into auto-antibodies and what is going on, on a cellular and molecular level.
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No one I mentioned is a make me laugh...
Dr. Fuhrman M.D. has ALL the medical journal documentation you'd ever want or need in Fasting and Eating For Health and in Eat To might want to pick up The China Study BOTH those books talk about molecular mimicry...I very much agree with you on this point...but there is no ONE cause for AI diseases.

And I totally disagree with focusing on the problem before the solution.  Backwards advice there.

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I must differ with the statement made by JENB12..Mercury DOES go into the cell.

Mercury is a liquid metal at ordinary temperatures and pressures. More importantly, it is a reactive element. Since it was first isolated, mankind has developed an increasingly vast array of uses for mercury. The advances in mercury toxicology have turned full circle, the knowledge of mercury poisoning comes from studies of cases of acute poisoning. The present danger presents itself as a chronic, low-level chronic exposure, also known as mercurialism and micromercurialism.

Most people are familiar with elemental mercury in liquid state found in a thermometer or thermostat. The most common source of chronic exposure is from Amalgam in dental fillings, amalgam has been used for mettallurgical purposes releasing mercury vapor. Vaccinations contain thimerosal used as a preservative, exposing undeveloped organs at a critical stage. Then bioaccumulation of methyl mercury in seafood, industrial uses and coal fired power plants.

Monomethylmercury (MeHg) participates directly in biochemical reactions. MeHg is crated both by humans and by the environment. Industry uses MeHg, and in the past poisoning were due to industrial discharge. MeHg is also created through biomethylation processes in the environment and bioaccumulates primarily in fish and people who eat fish.

Mercury compounds vapor can enter the body through various pathways, including inhalation of vapor, ingestion, and skin contact. Most of the exposure to elemental mercury comes from inhalation of mercury vapor, injections of thimerosal and ingestion of MeHg.

Mercury vapor is nonpolar, monatomic gas, and lipid-soluble. For example, let's follow the path of inhaled mercury vapor. From the lungs it dissolves in blood plasma, and from there it has access to diffuse into the cell in the body. Once inside a cell, mercury dissolves in blood plasma, and from there it has access to diffuse into any cell in the body. Once inside a cell, mercury vapor, itself unreactive is oxidized to the highly toxic mercury (+2) ion. This is also known a divalent mercury. This oxidation process is mediated by the enzyme catalase. Catalase normally functions in a two-step process to remove hydrogen peroxide from cells. However, in the second step of this process, mercury vapor can be oxidized to divalent mercury.

There is also oxidized to divalent mercury, this divalent mercury in the brain leads to strange symptoms, including erethism. Mercury is also found to be the process linking behavioral symptoms and Alzheimer's.

Monomethylmercury (MeHg) is estimated 100 to 1000 times more toxic than elemental mercury in humans. MeHg seems to specifically target the Central Nervous System (CNS). Until recently, this was a mystery, as the CNS enjoys the protection of the Blood Brain Barrier (BBB). The BBB consists of tightly packed endothelial cells that line the walls of the blood capillaries in the CNS.

The key to understanding why MeHg is so toxic is to see that structural similarities in biochemical reactions can lead to active transport of toxins. In the case of organisms with a highly advanced CNS, this active transport can lead to accumulation of MeHg in the brain. The pathway of MeHg from the bloodstream to the brain is complicated, to understand the pathway a number of processes are involved:

MeHg in blood plasma can combine with cysteine, forming a compound that is structurally similar to the amino acid methionine.
This MeHg-cysteine compound is actively transported into the endothelial cells in the BBB, on the methionine carrier.
A high level of reduced glutathione is maintained in the endothelial cells, and the MeHg switches from a cystein carrier to a glutathione carrier.
MeHg-glutathione is actively transported out of the endothelial cells and into the brain.
In the brain, the hydrolysis of MeHg-glutathione generates MeHg-cysteine.
This MeHg-cysteine can now enter nerve cells in the brain, where it accumulates. The reason why it accumulates is unknown, but it is known that reduced glutathione levels are low in some neurons. It is thought that this low level of reduced glutathione might allow MeHg-cysteine to remain in the cells, unlike in the endothelial cells.

Furthermore, since MeHg-cysteine is structurally similar to the amino acid methionine, it may interfere with protein synthesis in nerve cells. This is especially likely, since methionine is always the first amino acid involved with protein synthesis. However, the exact process is not yet fully understood.

The toxicity of MeHg in the developing brain is even more complicated. MeHg has been shown to affect proteins that are involved in the assembly of microtubules in the nerve cells cytoskeleton. By noting that microtubules are essential for nerve cell division and migration, we see how MeHg can affect brain growth and development. This is why the fetal brain is particularly sensitive to MeHg. Also, the BBB of the fetal brain is about three times more active in amino acid transport, which only makes the MeHg brain concentration rate higher.

MeHg also produces subtle changes in the production and secretion of neurotransmitters in the developing brain, which alters brain development in subtle ways. For example, MeHg has been shown to accumulate in astrocyte cells in the developing brain. One role of astrocytes is to regulate levels of the amino acid glutamate in the developing brain. It happens that glutamate is toxic to the developing brain. Since an inhibition of astrocyte cell function will enhance glutamate levels, we can see an indirect path for mercury poisoning in the brain. This is a very complex subject, and very little is known about the exact developmental changes that are expected from MeHg.

The standard methods for determining the concentration of mercury compounds in the body involve urine, blood, fecal and hair samples with a challenge test using a small portion of chelator to push out mercury. The problem with these methods is that they only show a recent history of mercury exposure, whereas mercury is a cumulative toxin. Since these tests cannot account for past exposures, they are only valid indicators of recent, acute exposure. This is part of the reason that there is so little known about chronic, low-level mercury exposure.

Unfortunately, by the time symptoms appear, usually the damage is already done. This is complicated by the fact that mercury toxicity is difficult to diagnose. However, when mercury contamination is diagosed and there is still a concentration of mercury in the body. Removal of all sources is first necessary, followed by chelation therapy that may help. Chelation therapy involves the formation of a complex of mercury with a chelate ligand. DMSA, EDTA and DMPS are such chelating ligands used in the treatment of heavy metals. Do not use a chelator without fully understanding which metals they chelate and the possibility of permanent damage due to the organs lack of ability to remove toxins. Doses of chelating agents increase the blood and urine concentrations of mercury, and thus help eliminate it from the body.

Mercury molecule and mercury molecule bound as in chelation.

Most of the effects involve complex biochemical reactions that are affected by the presence of mercury compounds. These include the immune system, particular organs, brain growth and development and behavioral patterns. Chronic mercury exposure is an important area of study.

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This is ONE case study of Dr. Fuhrman M.D. with an autoimmune case of diabetes. ( There are thousands more case studies he has been involved with over the last 10 years.)  Diet will make a difference.  

Patient with Type 2 Diabetes Restored to Health: Case Study of James Kenney

Diabetes affects roughly 135 million people worldwide, with more than 16 million Americans suffering from diabetes. More than 70 percent of the adults with Type 2 diabetes die of heart attacks or strokes. Diabetes can be prevented through nutritional methods.
This case history shows a Type 2 diabetes treatment success story of James Kenney, one of my patients. Type 2 diabetes prevention is possible, with diabetes education, Type 2 diabetes diet, proper weight control, and exercise. Instead of controlling diabetes, simply get rid of it.

Name James Kenney  
Chief Complaint Poorly controlled diabetes
Weight 268 pounds
Insulin 175 units per day

Mr. Kenney was referred to my office from his nephrologist at St. Barnabus Hospital in Livingston, New Jersey. Mr. Kenney was originally referred to the nephrologist by his endocrinologist (diabetic specialist) at the Joslin Clinic because of kidney damage that resulted from poorly controlled diabetes (very high glucose readings) in spite of maximum medical management.

In fact, Jim was taking a total of 175 units of insulin per day when he came in to my office for the first time in January. At that time, he had already suffered from severe complications of Type 2 diabetes, including two heart attacks and Charcot (destructive inflammation) joint damage in his right ankle.

In spite of this huge dose of insulin and six other medications, Jim’s glucose readings averaged between 350 – 400. This was the case “no matter what I eat,” he said. Jim told me that he was already on a diabetes diet, and was already following the precise diabetes nutrition and dietary recommendations of the dietician at the Joslin Clinic.

First visit: Type 2 diabetes patient This is what my Type 2 diabetes treatment plan for Jim entailed. At his first visit, I put Jim on my Eat To Live program for diabetics, with diabetes nutrition and his specific needs in mind. In addition, I reduced his insulin dose down to 130 units per day. Jim and I spoke over the phone over the next few days, and I continued to decrease his insulin gradually.

Within five days, Jim's glucose was running between 80 and 120, and he had lost ten pounds. At this juncture in my Type 2 diabetes treatment for Jim, I put him on 45 units of Lantus insulin at bedtime and 6 units of Humalog regular insulin before each meal for a total of 63 units per day.

Two week visit: Type 2 diabetes patient At his two week visit Jim had lost 16 pounds. I was already stopping some of his blood pressure medications and he was taking a total of 58 units per day of insulin.

After the first month of my Type 2 diabetes treatment and diabetes diet from my Eat To Live program, I was able to stop all of Jim's insulin and start him on Glucophage (one of the safer oral medications). He lost 25 pounds in the first five weeks and his blood glucose readings were well controlled without insulin. His blood pressure also came down to normal and he no longer required any blood pressure medications.

I had also found that Jim had an elevated homocysteine when we checked his blood tests. With the appropriate supplementation of a specific form of folate that he required (methyl tetrahydrofolate), his homocysteine returned to the normal range.

Five months later: No more diabetes medication, 60 pound weight loss Five months later, Jim was off medications for diabetes, he no longer had high cholesterol or high blood pressure, and he was over 60 pounds lighter. His kidney insufficiency had normalized as well.

This case illustrates not merely how powerful the diet from my Eat To Live approach is, but how the standard dietary advice given to diabetics from conventional physicians and dieticians can be disease promoting. The standard nutritional advice given to diabetics is not only insufficient--it is dangerous.

Jim Kenny would likely be dead by now had his nephrologist not referred him to me for an effective diabetes nutrition and dietary approach.

Caution: Dietary and medication changes while on insulin should be done under the care of a competent physician.
Message to physicians: More and more physicians are expressing their support and enthusiasm for the Eat To Live approach to treating Type 2 diabetes and other diseases. I invite other physicians to come to my office and observe the spectacular results first hand. Those who have taken me up on the offer have often commented that the experience was actually more fruitful than anything they did in their residency training.

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Once again I have to differ on a statement you made:

"NOT because it causes immune problems in the baby. it literally has NOTHING to do with the immune system."

We have NO IDEA what harm it does to a babies immune system because we can't do clinical trials on HUMANS in this country.

We must go back in time to the age of "blood-letting"...they did that until they figured out it was KILLING most of the patients!  They thought at that time it was THE ONLY WAY to rid the body of a problem..whether it be a headache or disease.

SAME goes for today...they ( the medical professionals) are doing what they think is best...only until the facts are re-examined and they figure out what they do for most people is HURRY them to their death.

I truely believe that food is ONE of the answers.  As you believe it isn't.  That's ok...I'm enjoying the discussion.  This is what MORE people need to be doing...everyone come tot he table with their thoughts, ideas, opinions...some backed up by fact some not...because A LOT of what people know to be true is just their own personal story...there is no government funding to show how RAW food cures disease because who would REALLY benefit from that?  Who would amke the most money from that discovery?

The American Cancer Society is a HUGE business.  It's not about finding a cure, they already have a cure.  BUT if it were on the evening news that the cure for cancer was long would the ACA be in business after news like that?

There are millions of pieces of information that are NOT being shared with the public. This I find outrageous.  I believe each single human being has a brain in their heads smart enough to take in ALL the information and solutions and they are smart enough to determine which solution is best for them.  People are NOT being given a choice, when only two of the solutions are being discussed with them by their doctor.  When there are simply 25 solutions at hand.  This makes me very angry.

The studies are all there. They have been there since the 1940's and before.
It's sad, that people will not open their minds enough to see what wool has been pulled over their eyes.


I'll go get my books and begin siting them.  Be prepared though, because you will be amazed at what has "already been proven" and hasn;t been shared with the public.
I hope the moderators of this list allow me to post the studies sited by Dr. Fuhrman and Dr . Cooper.

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Sited studies at the end.

Eat For Health - The Anti-Cancer Diet

By Joel Fuhrman M.D.

As reported by the U.S. government and Center for Diseases Control, cancers of the colon, breast, prostate and lung are the top four deadliest cancers in the modern world.  After billions of dollars devoted to researching drug treatments for cancer and minimal increases in life expectancy for those undergoing chemotherapy for most common cancers, many authorities such as the National Institute of Health and the American Cancer Society, have been issuing a stronger voice advocating more preventive measures to reduce cancer incidence.  Diet has become a key element in the fight against cancer.

The American Cancer Society recommends that people lower their risk of developing colorectal cancer by managing the risk factors that they can control, such as diet and physical activity. Diets high in vegetables and fruits have been linked with a lower risk of colon cancer, and diets high in processed and/or red meats have been linked with a higher risk. The American Cancer Society recommends the following:

Eat a healthy diet, with an emphasis on plant sources.
Choose foods and beverages in amounts that help achieve and maintain a healthy weight.
Eat 5 or more servings of a variety of vegetables and fruits each day.
Choose whole grains rather than processed (refined) grains.
Limit consumption of processed and red meats
However, for those desiring more powerful protection, these guidelines are not sufficient and are still somewhat vague.  For example, it is well established that 5 servings of fruits and vegetables a day is still not ideal for cancer protection. This recommendation was made to improve the diet-style of Americans, whose typical grocery baskets are dramatically lacking in these protective foods, but the recommendation is still sub-optimal. The recommendations as a whole were established in response to the dismally low intake of vegetables being consumed in America, and do not represent an ideal. The most recent scientific advancement in the anti-cancer research is the identification of specific foods and food elements that offer powerful protection against cancer.  The purpose of this article is to review some of these recent findings so people can take action now to dramatically lower their risk of all cancers and in particular colon cancer.

Let’s review some of these research findings and then review what a powerful, anti-cancer diet will look like.  

Meat and cancer

Accumulating epidemiologic evidence indicates that high consumption of red meat and processed meats increases the risk of colorectal cancer.  A meta-analysis assessed the association between red meat and processed meat consumption and the risk of colorectal cancer from 29 studies.  It showed a clear dose-response relationship, confirming higher intake corresponds with more cancers and a lower intake with less.1

The consumption of red meat and processed meats on a regular basis more than doubled the risk of some cancers. Even ingesting a small amount of red meat, such as two to three ounces a day, was shown to significantly increase the risk of cancer.2 Red meat and processed meats contain more saturated fat and trans fat than other animal products, and, therefore, are poorer food choices. However, the fat issue does not tell the whole story. Toxic nitrogenous compounds (called N-nitroso) occur in larger concentrations in red meat and processed meats. Red meat also has high haem (also spelled heme) content. Haem is an iron-carrying protein, and it has been shown to have destructive effects on the cells lining our digestive tract.3 Processed meats, luncheon meats, barbequed meats also contain cancer-causing heterocyclic amines.  These foods must not be a regular part of your diet if you are looking to maintain excellent health into your later years of life, because they promote heart disease and dementia too.

The too frequent consumption of animal products in general increases the risk of cancer. To achieve optimal health, we require a significant exposure to a full symphony of antioxidants and phytochemicals in unprocessed plant matter that we would not ingest sufficiently when animal products comprise a higher percent of total calories and the percentage of vegetation decreases proportionally. Also, since animal products contain no fiber, they remain in the digestive tract longer, slowing digestive transit time and allowing heightened exposure to toxic compounds.

The goal is to gradually reduce even the non-red meat animal products in your diet until you’re only consuming them two to three times per week, but even at that low level of consumption the choice of animal products should exclude or only rarely consume processed meat and barbequed meat.
Sugar and white flour and cancer

It has been hypothesized that levels of triglycerides, glucose, and insulin are associated with increased risk of colon cancer and that diets high in simple sugars and white flour increase risk of colon cancer because of their impact on these factors.  There are interesting similarities in the epidemiology of colorectal cancer and adult onset diabetes.  In a number of studies, diabetic patients have been shown to have an elevated risk of colorectal cancer[ and non-diabetics with elevated postprandial glucose levels also have a higher risk of colorectal cancer than individuals with normal glucose tolerance.4

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One explanation for these associations is that both diseases are linked to becoming overweight and the resultant metabolic effects and heightened inflammation that results, but it is interesting to note the evidence supporting the possibility that chronic exposure to diets rich in rapidly assimilated carbohydrates may act directly as a promoter of colorectal carcinogenesis.  Considering that both animal products and processed foods supply us with a rich caloric load, but not with antioxidants and phytochemicals necessary for the normal function of cells and the immune system, it may also be the lack of these nutritional elements that are important (as low-nutrient carbohydrates make up a higher percentage of total caloric intake). Free radical production increases and chronic disease develops as the level of produce decreases in the diet and the combined consumption of animal products and processed foods increases.

Epidemiological evidence supports the direct association between simple carbohydrates and risk of colon cancer.    A population study reveals a particularly heightened risk when a diet high in refined carbohydrates is associated with a sedentary lifestyle.5

Vegetables and cancer

Even though the key dietary strategy for preventing cancer of the large bowel is to increase your intake of fresh vegetables and fruits (especially vegetables) while lowering the amount of animal products and meat eaten, the evidence that eating more green vegetables is protective for  cancers of the colon and rectum, lung and prostate -- is building into an avalanche.  Cruciferous vegetables (the cabbage and broccoli family) are simply the most powerful weapon against all forms of cancer and especially colorectal cancer.6  

Cruciferous vegetables have been studied extensively for their chemo protective effects. Although they contain many bioactive compounds, the anti-carcinogenic actions of cruciferous vegetables are commonly attributed to their content of glucosinolates. Glucosinolates are relatively biologically inert but can be hydrolysed to a range of bioactive compounds such as isothiocyanates (ITC) and indoles by the plant-based enzyme myrosinase.  A number of mechanisms whereby ITC and indoles may protect against colo-rectal cancer have been identified. In experimental animals, cruciferous vegetables have been shown to inhibit chemically-induced colon cancer.  Human studies show a huge protective effect; people who were regular consumers of these foods had approximately 60 percent less cancer.7

Cruciferous vegetables act by altering the metabolism of carcinogens present in cooked food, such as the heterocyclic amines.  They help the body eliminate carcinogens and also keep free radicals in check, but even more fascinating is the body’s ability (when fueled with a sufficient amount of these greens) to repair broken DNA cross-links and modify the expression of genes that influence the risk of colon cancer.8

Vitamin D and cancer.

Studies in recent years have added more support to the idea that higher levels of vitamin D may decrease risk of colorectal cancer. Further, typical dietary intakes such as 200-400 IU/day may be too low to exert appreciable benefits, and protection may occur with higher levels of vitamin D.   Recent studies also suggest a potential benefit of vitamin D on other digestive-tract cancers, and that vitamin D status at the time of diagnosis and treatment may influence cancer survival.9  For most Americans not living in and working outdoors in southern states,  supplementation with 800 to 2000 IU’s optimizes serum 25-hydroxy Vitamin D levels for protection against cancer and osteoporosis.

Eat For Health  --   effective for all health conditions

The foundation of nutritional science  can be explained by  my  simple formula: H = N / C  or  Health = Nutrients / Calories.

This is a concept I call the nutrient density of your diet.  The key to both longevity and healthful weight loss is to eat predominantly those foods that have a high proportion of nutrients (non-caloric food factors) compared to calories (carbohydrates, fats and proteins).  Maintaining a favorable body weight is an important component of an anti-cancer lifestyle.

If you had a hundred dollars to spend, would you want to purchase a pencil or a laptop computer? You would want to receive the most value for your money, right?  Likewise, if you were to consume 1000 calories per day, would you want to spend those caloric bucks on empty calorie, low nutrient foods, like pasta, oil and sugar, or would it make more sense to eat foods that are rich in micronutrients such as fruits, vegetables and legumes?  

A food is healthy or not-so-healthy based on how much fiber, phytochemicals, antioxidants, minerals., omega-3 fatty acids, vitamins and other unnamed (or yet to be discovered) nutrients it contains in proportion to its calories.    Based on this N/C criterion, you can grade food quality, construct menus, and make food choices to support excellent health.   Once you know which foods have the highest nutrient density, you will become an expert in nutrition and weight loss. It is that simple.  

Eating large quantities of high-nutrient foods is the secret to optimal health, disease prevention and maintaining a healthy slim waistline.  The health equation describes a way of eating that is truly a longevity diet, yet it effortlessly has you achieve an ideal weight and it is an anti-cancer and anti-heart disease diet-style.

A person who Eats For Health is called a nutritarian.  You already may be a nutritarian if youunderstand that food has powerful disease-protecting and therapeutic effects and you seek to consume a broad array of both discovered and undiscovered micronutrients via your food choices.   It is not sufficient to merely avoid fat, trans fat or saturated fat.  It is not sufficient for the diet to have a low glycemic index.  It is not sufficient  for the diet to be low in animal products.  A truly healthy diet must be micro-nutrient rich and the micro-nutrient richness must be adjusted to meet individual needs.  Since the foods with the highest micro-nutrient per calorie scores are green vegetables, colorful vegetables, and fresh fruits, consumption of enough of these foods are required to meet our micronutrient needs for optimal health.  It helps if the produce-rich diet is designed to be delicious.  There is no reason why healthy foods can’t taste great.

A typical anti-cancer diet should contain at least 3 fresh fruits daily, at least one large raw green salad, as well as a two other cooked (steamed) vegetables, such as broccoli, carrots and peas, squash or other colorful vegetables.  A huge pot of soup ladened with vegetables, herbs and beans can be made once a week and conveniently taken for lunch.  Raw nuts and seeds are another important, but often overlooked food with documented health benefits contributing to longevity .

Many individuals are choosing to modify their lifestyle to improve their health or reverse diseases.  Unrefined plant foods and phytochemical support is the foundation of an anti-aging lifestyle.   Most diseases are effectively treated and in many cases completely reversed through aggressive nutritional intervention.  Uncovering the cause, and fueling the miraculous natural repair systems that are built into your body is always a better choice that results in a more favorable outcome, rather than covering up symptoms with medications. I urge you to learn more about healthful eating, and try some great tasting high-nutrient recipes in your regular diet, the effort is worth it and it may even save your life. Remember, the prescription is nutrition.

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studies sited for previous posts

1. Larsson SC ; Wolk A. Meat consumption and risk of colorectal cancer: a meta-analysis of prospectivee studies. Int J Cancer.  2006; 119(11):2657-64.

2. Chao A, Thun JT, Connell CJ, et al. Meat Consumption and Risk of Colorectal Cancer JAMA 2005;293:172-182.

3. Sesink AL, Termont DS, Kleibeuker JH, Van der Meer R. Red meat and colon cancer: dietary haem-induced colonic cytotoxicity and epithelial hyperproliferation are inhibited by calcium. Carcinogenesis 2001;22(10):1653-1659. Hughes R, Cross AJ, Pollock JR, Bingham S. Dose dependent effect of dietary meat on endogenous colonic N-nitrosation. Carcinogenesis 2001; 22(1):199-202.

4. La Vecchia C, D"Avanzo B, Negri E, Franceschi S. History of selected diseases and the risk of colorectal cancer. Eur J Cancer 1991; 27: 582-6. Schoen RE, Tangen CM, Kuller LH, et al. Increased blood glucose and insulin, body size, and incident colorectal cancer. J Natl Cancer Inst 1999; 91: 1147-54.

5. Slattery ML ; Benson J ; Berry TD et al. Dietary sugar and colon cancer. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev.  1997; 6(9):677-688.

6. Lynn A ; Collins A ; Fuller Z ; et al. Cruciferous vegetables and colo-rectal cancer. Proc Nutr Soc.  2006; 65(1):135-44.

7. Seow A ; Yuan JM ; Sun CL, et al.  Dietary isothiocyanates, glutathione S-transferase polymorphisms and colorectal cancer risk in the Singapore Chinese Health Study. Carcinogenesis.  2002; 23(12):2055-61.

8. Little J ; Sharp L ; Masson LF ; et al. Colorectal cancer and genetic polymorphisms of CYP1A1, GSTM1 and GSTT1: a case-control study in the Grampian region of Scotland. Int J Cancer.  2006; 119(9):2155-64.  Walters DG ; Young PJ ; Agus C ; et al. Cruciferous vegetable consumption alters the metabolism of the dietary carcinogen 2-amino-1-methyl-6-phenylimidazo[4,5-b]pyridine (PhIP) in humans.
Carcinogenesis. 2004; 25(9):1659-69. Higdon JV ;Delage B ;Williams DE ;Dashwood RH. Cruciferous vegetables and human cancer risk: epidemiologic evidence and mechanistic basis. Pharmacol Res.  2007; 55(3):224-36.

9. Giovannucci E. The epidemiology of vitamin D and colorectal cancer: recent findings.Curr Opin Gastroenterol. 2006; 22(1):24-9.


Joel Fuhrman, M.D., is a board-certified family physician, best-selling author, and one of the country's leading experts on nutritional medicine. He speaks to audiences at conferences, seminars, and corporate events throughout the United States and Canada. He addresses other physicians at hospital grand rounds and has lectured at benefits for the American Heart Association and the U.S. Olympic Team. Dr. Fuhrman has appeared in hundreds of magazines, on the radio, and on television including: Good Morning America (ABC), The Today Show (NBC), Good Day New York (FOX), The Food Network, CNN, Oprah & Friends, UPN, and the Discovery Channel. His books include: Eat To Live, Cholesterol Protection for Life, and Disease Proof Your Child.  His newest book, Eat For Health, was published in April 2008.  Dr. Fuhrman teaches nutritional excellence is not only preventative, but is also the most effective therapeutic intervention for most chronic medical conditions. At he supplies health and nutrition information and answers people’s health and nutrition questions.

Eating For Health

We know so much about nutrition and its powerful effects to create disease or protect against disease.  The question that seems unanswered to the majority of our population is what constitutes a healthy diet and how do we know that our chosen diet is disease-producing or disease protecting?  What degree of dietary excellence would make a diet therapeutically disease-reversing for those with high blood pressure, high cholesterol, heart disease or diabetes?  

My 2-book set, Eat For Health is not just about weight loss, it answers these issues with logic and science.  It gives individuals that ability to measure and judge the nutritional quality of their diet and discern whether their diet is adequate for them and if it contains sufficient micronutrients.  What constitutes a healthy diet for a healthy person with good family history and no health problems?  How do we design the right diet for those with multiple risk factors or a poor family history?   What if you are faced with a serious health challenge, how should your diet be structured for maximum therapeutic effects?  Eat For Health allows a person to enter into this world of dietary excellence at the level they choose and move forward at their own pace as they learn more and retrain their taste to prefer healthier options.

The quality of a diet can be judged base on three simple criteria:
1) its level of micronutrients (vitamins, minerals, phytochemicals) per calorie,
2) if it contains adequate macronutrients (fat, carbohydrate, protein) to meet individual needs, but without excess calories that may lead to overweight or health compromise.
3) if it adequately avoids potentially toxic substances, (such as trans fat) or excesses of substances harmful in excess, (such as sodium).

A person who Eats For Health is called a nutritarian.  You all may be nutritarians if youunderstand that food has powerful disease-protecting and therapeutic effects and seeks to consume a broad array of both discovered and undiscovered micronutrients via your food choices.   It is not sufficient to merely avoid fat, trans fat or saturated fat.  It is not sufficient for the diet to have a low glycemic index.  It is not sufficient  for the diet to be low in animal products.  A truly healthy diet must be micro-nutrient rich and the micro-nutrient richness must be adjusted to meet individual needs.  Since the foods with the highest micro-nutrient per calorie scores are green vegetables, colorful vegetables, and fresh fruits, consumption of enough of these foods are required to meet our micronutrient needs for optimal health.  It helps if the produce-rich diet is designed to be delicious.  There is no reason why healthy foods can’t taste great.
Avatar n tn
Mercury poisoning is WIDE SPREAD and comes from many sources NOT just fillings or on JENB12

Harmful effects of mercury compounds. Manufacture of paints, various household items, and pesticides uses mercury; the finished product and the waste products released into air and water may contain mercury. The aquatic food chain can concentrate organic mercury compounds in fish and seafood, which, if eaten by humans, can affect the central nervous system, impairing muscle, vision, and cerebral function, leading to paralysis and sometimes death (see Minamata disease). Acute mercury poisoning causes severe digestive-tract inflammation. Mercury accumulates in the kidneys, causing uremia and death. Chronic poisoning, from occupational inhalation or skin absorption, causes metallic taste, oral inflammation, blue gum line, extremity pain and tremor, weight loss, and mental changes (depression and withdrawal). Drugs containing mercury can cause sensitivity reactions, sometimes fatal. In young children, acrodynia (pink disease) is probably caused by an organic mercury compound in house paints.

BOOK: Jane M. Hightower
Diagnosis: Mercury, Money, Politics and Poison

Symptoms of Mercury Poisoning
By the Environmental Protection Agency
Impairment of the peripheral vision
Disturbances in sensations ("pins and needles" feelings, numbness) usually in the hands feet and sometimes around the mouth
Lack of coordination of movements, such as writing
Impairment of speech, hearing, walking;
Muscle weakness
Skin rashes
Mood swing
Memory loss
Mental disturbance
Mercury Exposure
Health problems caused by mercury depend on how much has entered your body, how it entered your body, how long you have been exposed to it, and how your body responds to the mercury. People are at risk when they consume mercury-contaminated fish and when they are exposed to spilled mercury.

Elemental (metallic) mercury and its compounds are toxic and exposure to excessive levels can permanently damage or fatally injure the brain and kidneys. Elemental mercury can also be absorbed through the skin and cause allergic reactions. Ingestion of inorganic mercury compounds can cause severe renal and gastrointestinal toxicity. Organic compounds of mercury such as methylmercury are considered the most toxic forms of the element. Exposures to very small amounts of these compounds can result in devastating neurological damage and death.

For fetuses, infants and children, the primary health effects of mercury are on neurological development. Even low levels of mercury exposure such as result from mother's consumption methylmercury in dietary sources can adversely affect the brain and nervous system. Impacts on memory, attention, language and other skills have been found in children exposed to moderate levels in the womb.

Mercury Spills
All mercury spills, regardless of quantity, should be treated seriously. Metallic mercury slowly evaporates when exposed to the air. The air in a room can reach contamination levels just from the mercury in a broken thermometer. Mercury in school labs should be handled with care and stored safely and securely.

Mercury Pollution
Mercury pollution is released into the air from the burning of fossil fuels. It falls down directly onto waterways or is deposited on land where it can be washed into the water. Bacteria in the water cause chemical changes that transform mercury into a highly toxic form - methylmercury.

Methylmercury accumulates in fish, with larger fish generally accumulating higher levels of methylmercury. If you are pregnant or could become pregnant, are nursing a baby, or if you are feeding a young child, you should limit consumption of freshwater fish caught by family and friends to one meal per week. For adults one meal is six ounces of cooked fish or eight ounces uncooked fish; for a young child one meal is two ounces cooked fish or three ounces uncooked fish. Many states collect data on mercury levels in fish from local waters and issue fish consumption advisories.

For more information on freshwater fish consumption advisories across the country, go to

Additional Mercury Information
"Our prefered poison" - A little mercury is all that humans need to do away with themselves quietly, slowly, and surely.

"Mercury Health Hazards" - The National Institutes of Health provides information on how mercury affects health including occupational exposure.

"Reducing Mercury Use In Health Care" - This EPA manual helps hospitals start or improve mercury pollution prevention programs.

MedlinePlus offers health information from the National Library of Medicine.

Advisory on Methylmercury in Fish, US Food and Drug Administration - The US FDA has issued guidelines on the consumption of certain commercial seafood that might be contaminated with mercury.

Mercury Research Strategy - EPA's plan for mercury research, covering the FY2001 – 2005 timeframe. It describes the human health and ecological risks posed by mercury and indicates that mercury should be considered on local, regional, and global scales. The Strategy identifies the most important scientific questions for EPA and then describes a research program to answer those questions.

Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry Mercury Factsheet - ATSDR's toxicological factsheet which answers the frequently asked health questions about mercury.

Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry Metallic Mercury Exposure Alert - ATSDR's National Alert about metallic mercury in school and ritual use.

IRIS Health Assessment for Mercury and Methylmercury - Human health effects that may result from exposure to mercury or methylmercury (select from drop-down box). Part of the Integrated Risk Information System (IRIS) database.

Tox Town - The world's largest medical library, the US National Library of Medicine, a part of the National Institutes of Health, has developed an introductory Web site about toxic chemicals and environmental health risks such as mercury, lead, and asbestos in the towns and cities where you live.

Health Care Without Harm is a nongovernment agency that provides information about reducing the use of mercury in health care.
Avatar m tn
I will try and answer your questions best I can.  Which drugs are toxic.  I do not know and the FDA does not know.  When they find out later it may be too late.  I try not to take any of them if possible.  You have to decide for yourself which ones you want to take.  Just as long as you understand that these drugs have side effects and may be hazardous to you later.

The FDA recommends women of child bearing age refrain from eating fish which are high in mercury levels.  This includes more than the few fish you named.  The fish which have low levels of mercury they recommend no more than 12 ounces a week.  Once you get mercury in the body it takes a number of years to get it out.  You can get Omega 3 from supplements so if you want to take a chance on eating fish that is your choice.  I eat salmon or cod maybe once a week.  I try and get the wild catch salmon.  Most of the farmed raise salmon comes from China and I do not know what they are feeding their fish.  Do not trust them.  Even though mercury is a big problem there are other things which can be a problem.

Yes, mercury will attack the brain, nervous system and other organs in the baby's body.  The mother has a immune system which allows her to fight against this mercury poisoning but the baby's immune system has not develop fully so it has no defense against this poison.  That is one reason these vaccinations effect the young children.  There immune systems are still in the development phase so they have a hard time handling this poison.

All these immune disease are caused by the same thing; toxins in the body.  They all have different names but many of the sympthoms are the same.  The doctor have a hard time determining which one you have because sympthoms are similiar.  From what I have read mercury is responsible for much of this.  That doesn't mean if you were eating lead as a child that could be a cause.  There are other things in our enviroment which can cause these diseases.  Studies suggest Estrogen and Testostrone levels effect these diseases and who gets what.  The studies I have seen suggest that mercury is the main culprit.  If you want to see a video explaining how mercury binds to the cell and interfers with the neurons check out the video by Dr. Boyd E. Haley Professor and Chair Department of Chemistry University of Kentucky "Mercury Toxicity: Dependence on Dose, Diet and Genetic Susceptibility".  He can explain it better than me.
Check out his video and it might change your mind about alot of things.

Nothing I have found is 100% so some people cannot be help.  The studies do suggest a very good rate of recovery when following the paleo diet.  Fruits and vegetables have the vitamins and minerals in them which allow the body to get rid of these toxins.  I take certain supplements mentioned in the book "Prescription for Nutritional Healing".  I have had very good results with my illness.  Sorry the paleo diet has not worked for you.  
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Again, never said mercury was good....I think we are all aware that it is a bad thing and that it can negatively effect the body. Thank you both for getting the word out about amalgam fillings. I find the information extremely interesting.  I don't see any reason to not avoid mercury if possible. However,  I can't see anywhere in any of the information you guys provided, in the links, videos etc. that explain the alleged auto-immune connection. I can see how when mercury poisoning occurs that it can create the neurological symptoms.... but lots of things can do that too, not just mercury. Just because mercury poisoning has symptoms that parallel other diseases, perhaps MS? Does not mean that mercury causes MS. I certainly do not see mercury causing Lupus, behcets, autoimmune pancreatitis, sjogrens, hashimotos etc.  In fact I can't even begin to tell you how different the symptoms are to mercury poisoning compared to most auto-immune diseases.

Want2bik1, I could not seem to open the video link you suggested, I guess it is time to update my software already. But in all of the articles I read over posted in the links by fancypants I could not seem to find anything that claimed or explained that mercury causes *all* auto-immune diseases.

All in all I am extremely lucky. I grow most of my own vegetables in my own back yard (the soil i use came from the local rainforest), all of our plantains, bananas, avocados, come from family and neighbors... I live in the caribbean and can get some exceptional locally grown organic foods, meats, dairies and eggs. The japanese restaurant where i eat my sashimi and ceviche lists exactly where the fish comes from.... so I'm lucky in that respect too. I realize i am probably the exception and not the norm.  

I want to be clear here.... to both of you.... fancypants and want2bik2, I am a health advocate. I would never tell someone not to eat well if they have the resources and the opportunity and the WILLPOWER to eat the right stuff they should by all means do it. That is always going to be my advice to anyone in any situation with any disease. Why? because eating well and eating healthy is good for the body, and it can't hurt. I just don't see it as *causing* the vast array of autoimmune diseases and illnesses in the world. Same thing with Mercury and avoiding it.

I still believe that hormones play a much larger role in the development of autoimmune conditions compared to any toxin. It would certainly explain the demographics of most of the AI conditions. There is definitely a correlation between some hormones like estrogen and some cancers as well.

As for the drug debate. I agree avoid drugs as much as you can. But to tell people to throw away the drugs, or to not look into ************** when they are very ill is not necessarily the best advice. If you can get off all drugs 100% that is fantastic, perhaps you were not sick enough to need them in the first place. I would like to get off of the synthetic hormones that I take now, and maybe one day i will. But my issue is not threatening my ability to walk or my LIFE... as some people in this community are facing.  If someone is eating well, does not have mercury poisoning and has kidney failure due to their autoimmune condition..... well, i just don't see the advice your giving as being helpful. Drug development has come a LONG LONG way and it's getting better and better as technology improves as well, i think there are some amazing drugs out there that have really improved many peoples quality of life and I agree that it should be up to the individual to make that decision. Since we both agree on that subject i hope i don't see another one of your posts to someone advising them to not take the drugs that were prescribed to them by their doctor..... not all Dr's are evil, not all pharmaceutical decisions are motivated by money and profit.

I think, say it once. If people listen they listen, if not, they don't.
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This discussion is getting quite large!  It's great to see different people's viewpoints, even if it makes us feel frustrated.  We don't know for sure what causes autoimmune diseases.  It just may be a combo of everything.  I personally don't think food and mercury have  much to do with them, but yes, we should still eat right and avoid heavy metals.  

JenB12, I wish your brother would join the site as well.  I'll keep looking into molecular mimicry and how it may or may not have a role in other AI diseases.  

I'm glad that people on here are very determined!  I guess... if it makes you feel better and believe it's healing you, that is all that counts.  
Avatar m tn
Sorry you could not open the video.  Boyd Haley is a professor with the University of Kentucky who has done much research into the fact that mercury is responsible for many of these autoimmune diseases.  The video I listed is a 1 hour lecture he gave concerning his finding which support my position that mercury is the primary cause of these diseases.  You can google his name "Boyd Haley" and find information on his position on this issue if you really are interested.  

We all must look at our own situation and decide for ourselves which drugs if any we are confortable taking.  I am not confortable taking any of them anymore and fortunately my health has recovered to the point I do not need them in my opinion and my opinion is the only one that counts.  My last trip to the emergency room 1 1/2 years ago the doctors couldn't find out what was wrong with me.  I had dizziness and double vision, nausea and high blood pressure.  One of the doctors told me I showed signs of MS in my upper body due to some reflex test he did.  The did MRI's, CAT scans and a variety of test but could not find anythings.  Doctors are not confortable when they can't find out what is wrong with you.  Think they figured it must be a ministroke.  Sent me home and told me to take an aspirin and put me on blood pressure medicine.  I ask my doctor how long I would be on blood pressure medicine and he told me the rest of my life.  Since I have taken care of my amalgam problem and been on a healthy diet I have lost 40 pounds and no longer considered obese using the BMI.  I check my blood pressure everyday and it is around 120/80.  I will be seeing my doctor for a physical next Tuesday.  I no longer take the aspirin or the blood pressure medicine and if he doesen't agree with me that is tough.  He will check the different things in my blood and if he finds a problem I will decide how I want to treat it.  My days of trusting the doctors, dentist and professials that know everything are over.  These professionals are directly responsible for the condition I have experienced and I no longer have any trust in them.  

As with the pharmeceutical company it is all about the money.  They are a business just like any business and if they do not make money you go out of business.  They get their bonuses and salary according to how much money they make and the profit motive is what drives these companies.  The profits are higher in this industry than any other industry.  I could give you links explaining this but you probably would not be able to access them.  The evidence about mercury has been out there for many years but these professionals (doctors and dentist) choose to ignore it.  There is alot of money generated in putting this posion in your mouth and then treating the sympthoms you get.  Boyd Haley refers to these people as criminals.  Think it is a  crime against humanity.  

I know about being sick.  Laying in bed too tired to get up and wishing you could just die.  Dizziness, double vision, bronchitus (bronchitis), nausea, pain in elbows and stomack, dead feeling in fingers and toes, muscle spasms in the back.  Not wanting to do anything but lay around and try to sleep.  Problem is you can't sleep.  Then having your doctor tell you it is just old age and you have to learn to live with it.  Everything is not so simple.  If you do not like what one doctor tells you can see another doctor.  They all have a different opinions.  How do you know which one to listen to?  Maybe it is better to research the information for yourself and make your own decision.  Death doesn't scare me anymore because I have been in a place far worse.    
745975 tn?1258964522
But do you, or did you, ever have a *confirmed* autoimmune disorder?
Avatar m tn
Thought I made it clear they could not determine what I had.  They just gave me asprin and blood pressure medicine and told me it was old age.  Maybe it was some disease they haven't got a name for yet.  Since I had the sympthoms attribute to autoimmune disease I researched the subject and found that the problem which give us these sympthoms is toxins in the body.  Most of this is attributed to mercury.  Boyd Haley has done excellent research showing this.  Why don't you google his name and see what he has to say.  He is not making any money on his research.  In fact, he has a hard time getting money for his research.  Seems the government and drug industry are not interested in his findings.  They have to do much of this research outside the country.  There is no money in making people well.    
Avatar n tn
Gotta make this point even though I'm short on time this morning.

The whole HORMONAL issue can be corrected by correct diet.

When i say correct diet I mean NO animal protein, organic or not.
I suggest you ( JenB12) try 6 weeks of no animal protein.  Did you know there is more protein in 100 calories of broccoli than there is in 100 calories of steak ( check Dr. Fuhrman's research on this.)  The molecular mimicry that we have been talking about is exactly what happens with a body that is heavy in ANIMAL PROTEIN.  Just get off of it for 6 weeks, you'll see a difference in your health for the better.

ALSO get Victoria Boutenkos movie "Greens Can Heal You"...she covers SO MUCH DOCUMENTED information in her research about green foods..and how they correct SO MANY AILMENTS in the's 2 CD's..and if you dont have the money I'll buy them and send them to you.  That's how convinced I am that the information she has will help your overall health picture.

Let's go back to WHY we have a hormonal imbalance in the first place?
We can assume that "healthy people" have NO hormonal issues.
WHY is that?  because their body is getting what it needs ( through food choices) to do what it needs to do to keep the body balanced.  That's what health means..homeostasis..balance.
How do we become out of balance?
MANY reasons here...and they have to do with BODY..MIND..and SPIRIT...these three areas in our lives need attention to keep the physical body in balance.
So let's, for the sake of time and argument, focus on the physical aspects alone.

How do we become imbalanced hormonally?
Food we eat contains hormones ( maybe not you because of your choices)..
The air we breath
The soil in which the food is grown in
The dairy supply has hormones
The plastic in the water bottles we drink out of
the hair spray we use causes endocrine disruptors
make up can have endocrine distruptors
and the famous GENETIC PREDISPOSITION ( but there thousand of studies that prove that if your diet is health this geneic predisposition need never be's not a "death sentence")

So what do we have control over?  we do have control over our food, maybe not so much the air, we have control over where we get our water etc.

So my point is here..IF your health is not where it needs to be and you are doing a lot of the "right" need some fine tuning somewhere.  I suggest you start with no animal protein of any kind of 6 won't hurt your health and I believe you'll find HUGE benefits from this 6 weeks of no animal protein.

Back on track..the hormonal controled by diet...get the diet in order first...clean it up to where you're eating 85% green leafy veg. and you'll see such a change.  The hormones will begin to balance on their own given the right "nutrients"'s what the bodies's always striving for that homeostasis.  It WANTS to be in balance, but if you're not in balance yet with doing MOST of the right things ( and from reading your posts on this site for the last 6 months, you're doing most of it right in my humble opinion) you just need some fine tuning.

I have seen too many studies from Dr. Fuhrman, Dr. Cousins, Victoria Boutenko and David Wolfe that I don't believe YOU can't still improve your health picture.

The hormonal imbalance is in our control to re-balance.


Avatar n tn
a side the DVD i just finished watching for the 10th time on the Greens from Victoria...her research showed we need to blend the greens to get the most benefit due to the cellulose in the green plants..that cellulose is one of the strongest materials on the in order to release the nutrients in the GRRENS ( as in your salad) you either need to chew them until they are juice in your mouth..or you can use a Vita Mix blender or something as good to blend the greens to release the nutrients.  her DVD's are packed full of information I wish we could get on the evening news each night...

Avatar n tn
Needed to clarify the statement about people wanting to be sick.

What I meant by that was, in my practice, I have found people, mostly women who have grown up in a "victim" mentality.  Therefore they think "all things are done TO them" ( including illness, mostly as a punishment for something they did wrong) that they have no control over.  They don't know how to NOT be sick..and being sick is easier than getting well, because one has to be empowered to a certain extent to take their health matters into their own hands and become responsible for their lifestyle choices. You see this in the "battered woman syndrome" as well.  It's easier to stay with the batterer than it is to try and take care of herself and children in some instances. CHANGE is NOT EASY for most people.  In fact most people would rather take a pill than change their lifestyle even if it means that they would be well and full of energy and happy.  This is a very SAD fact.  But it is one I find over and over and over again in the classes and workshops I teach. I have found if I can help shift the paradigm that people live with about disease and health I can help them to make lasting changes in thier lives that benefit not only themselves but those around them as well.

I once met a gal in one of my workshops who said it was easier for her to have asthma than it was NOT to have it because someone else was "footing the bill"..and if she "cured" herself of the disease she would no longer have someone else paying for everything, she would have to go to work and be responsible for the bills once again.
In her case it was determined that the kind of work she was doing CAUSED the therefore she was able to have someone else ( i guess the company) pay for her living expenses etc. the rest of her life.  She didn't want to get well.  She said "are you crazy? why would I want to be well?"  Absolultley blew me away!! lol

So just wanted to clarify that point.

Now I'm outta here and into
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Thanks for the suggestion, but no thanks on eliminating meats. :)  I was vegetarian for a year and a half and I really did not like the way I felt. I enjoy meat too much. As it stands now I don't eat significant amounts of meat. Broccoli does not have "complete proteins" meaning the 8 different amino acids that meats have. I don't want to start an argument about which is better being an omnivore vs not eating meats, because I think there is value in both. But it's not likely that I'm going to go vegetarian again.

I do have green shakes 2 x a day once in the morning for breakfast and once at night. My smoothies have kale, spinach, carrot, banana, water, (mixed fruits depending on the day), papaya, juice and romaine lettuce. (I don't put spirulina algae in there yet like my husband, I have yet to develop a taste for that haha.)

As for what causes hormonal imbalances... I'm sure many many things. As for food? yes i think it can cause hormonal imbalances. Like fats can increase estrogen as one example. I do know that estrogen is also stored in body fats as well.

I was not really referring so much to hormonal imbalances, as much as I believe that hormones are the part of the cause. Hormones are the chemicals/ proteins that tell organs what to do and what to make, so it makes sense that any number of things can go wrong with the message that the hormone sends. It's too complex for me to really understand all of it or to explain it here. There are SO many different hormones that do so many different things in each part of the body and are critical for our proper functioning... it's amazing really.

Also even if Hormones are in balance sometimes diseases grow in response to them. For examples, some cancers are estrogen reactive.

I believe that it is not as simple as balancing out hormones with food. There are too many things that can disrupt hormone production. Hashimotos being a prime example. Or something like Cushings disease where a lesion on the pituitary causes the extra hormones to be sent to the adrenals which increases cortisol production. In addition, there are many things that can go wrong with any hormone producing gland or organ that can cause a hormonal imbalance that diet cannot help.

My point in adding that I thought that hormones had something to do with causing autoimmune disease was that it would certainly explain why women of child bearing age are so much more likely to get certain autoimmune conditions vs. men. The difference between the sexes is the hormones that we produce. Just a thought. It's clearly not the answer to it all, after all my brother and i both have autoimmune diseases and we're different sexes.

Bottom line, I agree with you that hormonal balance is critical and that for most people, good diet is important. One needs to look no further then to insulin and glucagon to see how critical diet is to insuring that everything functions properly. My only point to mentioning hormones in the first place is that hormonal differences and genetics must be at least part of the explanation as to why certain demographics are more likely to have an autoimmune condition.
Avatar n tn
Ok had to respond...geez I'm so behind today! lol

I won't argue...just want to see you be as healthy as you can be...the molecular mimicry with animal protein is explained by two doctors in Fasting and Eating for Health and The China Study.

Most vegetarians don't feel well because they don't mix up and constantly change the greens they are eating.  Victoria covers this in her DVD's..but something happens in the body with oxcylic acid( spelling?)..when you eat the same grees over and over again you get "poisoned" by these acids. You must always be mixing up the greens. She explains it better than i can here...and most vegetarians are not eating a balance of foods. they don't have enough hydrochloric acid in their digestive systems and they are TOO acidic.  Not sure what you were eating at the time, but there is a lot of evidence in what she has to say.  They were raw for about 7 years and then they all ( all 4 of them, her and her husband and two kids) became sick and she couldn't figure out why...did her reasearch on the green leafy vegetables ( and she classifies the vegetables seperate from the GREENS, she said the greens are not vegetables they are greens...she's a Russian woman and extremly funny) and found out about the oxcylic acid. They changed up the greens every week and now they are back to being healthy again. She covers their story in the DVD's..also you can find them at *********com

It's just an option to try...

I won't bring it up again.

It isn't as simple as balancing out the hormones with food..but when we give our bodies what they need ( and figuring out this is the "fun" for each individual, because we are all different) they heal.  This I know to be true.

Check out ************** Dr. Janet Lang has done tons of research and work in the area of balancing out the hormones.  I see one of her co-doctors Dr. Doris Compton in New Haven, Missouri.

A point about Cancer..
In the DVD ( just got this one two weeks ago) Healing Cancer from Inside Out...the doctors on this DVD talk about an enzyme that is produced by the Pancreas.  This enzymes main purpose is to break down the sheath that "hides" the cancer cell from the bodies immune system.  This was to be it's only job.  However...doctors have found that in populations where there is a HIGH intake of animal protein..this enzyme has adapted to breaking down animal protein..and furthermore, what they found was that when the presence of animal protein is in the body it's sole purpose then is to deal with the animal protein and NOT the sheath around the cancer cells.  ALSO with further research they noticed when people stopped eating animal protein...the enzyme MORPHED back to an enzyme that broke down the sheath around the cancer cell so the bodies immune system could once again recognize it.  

This was NEW information for me.  And one I am researching.  I have a friend right now that has a rare pancreatic cancer...and she is going to stop eating animal protein for 6 weeks. We'll see what happens.

Life is a wonderful journey!
Avatar n tn
Check out the video on the *************website with their shouldn't be putting the carrot in your drink in the morning. ;-)  carrots are starch...not good with fruits and greens :-)

I'm so outta here now lol
745975 tn?1258964522
heh yeah it is all very complex to say the least.

I saw the stuff from Janet Lang that you posted months ago..... VERY interesting. I liked her.

Please let me know as things go along with your friend with Cancer, and how her journey goes sans meat. I hope she does very well! :)

Avatar n tn
Something I came across on Dr. Fuhrman's site...a direct answer to a woman's question about autoimmune what he wrote in response...

Can you tell me what is the relationship between wheat or dairy (animal product) and auto-immune disease such as Lupus?, why is it that these should not be consummed at all? Since starting Eat To Live last April I have had a great reduction of symptoms triggered by sun exposure. Even when using a high SPF sunblock, I still get skin blisters but they are rare, small, and heal faster, and not accompanied by arthritic pain, anemia, or extreme fatigue and forgetfulness. It seems that when I have even small amounts of wheat (like a small round of pita bread or 1/2 a glass of skim milk) I am more prone to react to sun exposure. Am I correct? What is the underlying mechanism?

When the auto-immune disease is completely revesed, when all test results are normal and when there is no flare-up following sun exposure, can small, occasional amounts or wheator dairy be re-introduced in the diet whithout negative side effects?

Thank you very much for your book and for this forum, it is much much appreciated.

This is an incredibly complicated and not understood subject and there are multiple (poorly understood) reasons, plus I could write an entire book on this subject and do not want to do that here. But, if anyone thinks they have all the answers to this one, don't believe it.
Besides the immunogenic stimulation from partially digested animal proteins (peptides) Mycobacterium avium paratuberculosis bacteria survives pasteurization and is found in most milk. This bacteria can promote an immune response and eventually trigger and autoimmune cascade. Dairy also can promote an unfavorable balance of bacterial species that may elaborate toxic compounds. Dairy fat is also our richest source of dioxin and other petrochemicals whose consumption is linked to thyroid disease, endometriosis and other medical conditions. Certain fish may have more pollution in it, but since dairy is consumed so much more than fatty fish and shellfish, dairy is the largest contributor to our body's toxic load. In addition, many studies illustrate IGF-1 is a potent stimulus for breast cancer cell proliferation, and that it exerts local growth promoting effects. The higher levels of IGF may also promote the imbalanced immune system response seen in autoimmune diseases. However IGF-1 alone, does not adequately explain the risk; rather it is synergy between more IGF-1, toxic chemicals, estrogen, dairy protein, saturated fat and the industry-related milk additives. Dairy and wheat peptides are simply the most common food allergens and so many people improve their health when reducing or eliminating these foods. Unless you grind your own wheat berries, flour also contains rodent droppings and other sensitizing elements.

You were astute to realize that feeling better does not really mean you are totally well yet, that takes years. After a few years of nutritional excellence, you will be able to tolerate a small degree of toxic exposure without the same (severe) reaction. At that point it can take a few months of dietary abuse rather than a few hours to get yourself ill again. JF
Avatar n tn's not oxalic acid it's ALKALOIDS...and it is RAW Family dot commmm.
Avatar n tn
A newsletter entry from Nov. 2004 of Dr. Fuhrman's

By Joel Fuhrman, M.D.
This issue of the newsletter is
about rheumatologic disease:
diseases such as psoriasis, lupus,
rheumatoid arthritis, and connective
tissue disease, but there are
about a hundred clinical syndromes
considered autoimmune disease.
The term rheumatoid arthritis was
coined in 1858 to differentiate this
type of joint pain and bodily symptoms
from gouty arthritis, which
was more common in those days
among wealthier Europeans eating
rich foods.
Rheumatologic diseases refer to a
group of systemic illnesses characterized
by the immune system’s attacks
on joints and other parts of
the body. Today, the words autoimmune
and rheumatologic are interchangeable;
they are marked by
inflammatory markers in the blood.
Inflammatory bowel diseases, such
as Crohn’s and ulcerative colitis, also
are autoimmune diseases, but they
are not classified as rheumatologic
because they typically are cared for
by gastroenterologists, not rheumatologists.
Nevertheless, they are diseases
where inflammatory markers
are visible in the blood and are of
the same class as systemic autoimmune
Autoimmune diseases are caused
by an inflammatory process regulated
by our immune system. Inflammation
normally protects the host
from foreign invaders by isolating
and destroying bacteria, viruses, and
other toxic or foreign agents. It is a
highly complex process involving
many types of cells, a number of
enzymes, and many physiologically
active materials that alter local blood
flow and cell behavior.
In Pathological Basis of Disease,
the leading pathology text used by
most medical students, inflammation
is explained poetically:
“The inflammatory response is
closely intertwined with the
process of repair. Inflammation
serves to destroy, dilute, or
wall off the injurious agent,
but in turn sets into motion a
complex series of events that,
as far as possible, heal and
reconstitute the damaged tissue.
Repair begins during the
early phase of inflammation
but reaches completion usually
after the injurious influence
has been neutralized....Humans
owe to inflammation their
ability to contain injuries and
heal defects.Without inflammation,
infections would go
unchecked, wounds would
never heal, and injured organs
would remain permanent festering

Understanding biology and pathology
helps us to understand how
immune system disorders can be
treated and how nutritional therapy
works. Poisoning the immune attack
into submission with toxic drugs is
one avenue of attack.This leads to a
continual and increased buildup of
toxic and irritating immune system
stimulating substances, which could
increase the requirement for more
drugs down the road and make for a
more severe response if the medications
are discontinued.The road less
traveled is to attempt to remove the
noxious and injurious influences
promoting the excessive immune
attack and to normalize the excessive
immune system response by
adopting a program of nutritional
In most of the rheumatologic diseases,
the inciting agent stimulating
an excessive immune attack is
unknown, and the inflammatory
reaction becomes detrimental to the
host. Unfortunately, in untreated
autoimmune illnesses, the immune
attack against unknown stimuli does
not stop and leads to destructive,
harmful sequelae (aftereffects).
Our complicated immune response
is controlled with a system
of checks and balances, just like our
democratic government. Many
components are involved in this
immune-mediated attack. First, our
antibodies label areas worthy of
attack, then other cells work to call
out the alarm—secreting substances
that attract and promote
proliferation of other attacking
cells. Finally, there are cells that
control the attack, modify it, and
turn it off at the precise moment to
prevent an excessive response. In
autoimmune disorders such as lupus,
we have an immune response that
reacts in an uncontrollable fashion,a
response that is not properly immuno-
Increased understanding
As our understanding of the mechanism
and causes of inflammation
increases, so does our ability to
understand the factors that create a
favorable environment for improvement
and healing of autoimmune
disease. The scientific basis for the
nutritional treatment of autoimmune
disease hinges on the removal
of cellular toxins, bacterialelaborated
toxins from our digestive
tract, food excesses, and food
toxins, while at the same time supplying
a high level of nutritional
factors that help normalize a malfunctioning
(excessive) immune
response that overreacts to stimuli
and does not shut off.
In spite of excellent clinical
results and the publication of case
studies and medical journal articles
documenting favorable outcomes,
medical authorities and major research
centers are not interested in
studying nutritional excellence as a
therapy for rheumatologic diseases.
It is difficult to move against an
entrenched status quo that wrongly
assumes that medications are the
only option. If my approach to autoimmune
illnesses was taught in medical
schools and residency programs,
primary care physicians could begin
this nutritional approach at the earliest
signs of autoimmune illness with
their patients, instead of prescribing
a lifetime of medications that have
dangerous side effects.
Dramatic recovery
Patients can achieve incredible success.
Here is how Cheryl Platt describes
her experience with my
I had lupus for 20 years. I took
Plaquenil, methotrexate, prednisone
and other toxic drugs in
high dosages, but still lived my
life imprisoned in isolation and
pain with many lost years. I
searched on the web for years
looking for something else.
During this time, I tried acupuncture,
chiropractic, massage,
exercise, stress management,
vitamins, herbs, various
oils (including fish oils), antibiotics,
and other treatments. I
am so grateful to have found
Dr. Fuhrman. Thanks to him,
today I have a normal life, full
of energy.The joint pain is gone,
and I am on no medication.
Avatar n tn

Doctors not supportive
Most of the patients with lupus or
rheumatoid arthritis who follow
my advice tell a similar story. Sadly,
their other doctors often bristle at
even the suggestion that a natural
approach might be a solution to the
problem. Debra Black’s story is typical.
(See box at right.)
Having been diagnosed with
lupus and told that she would have
to take drugs for the rest of her life,
Debra sought an alternative. After
adopting my program of nutritional
excellence, she rapidly recovered
her health. Her only disappointment
came when she returned to
the doctor who gave her the initial
diagnosis. Thinking he would be
pleased to see the remarkable progress
she had made, she was shocked
both by his clear lack of interest
in a possible nutritional solution to
lupus and his rude response.
How my program works
Dietary intervention is my chief
component of care.Achieving superior
health via nutritional excellence
gives a person with an autoimmune
disorder the only opportunity
for a complete drug-free remission.
In many cases, a vegetarian
diet alone helps substantially. It is
important to keep in mind that
food is our major contact with the
external environment, and food
choices can negatively or positively
modulate the immune system. In
addition to inherently toxic substances
that may be ingested, intact
peptides and proteins (partially
digested animal proteins) can bridge
the walls of the digestive tract and
can be absorbed into the circulation,
playing a significant role in
promoting an excessive antibody response,
contributing to autoimmune
However, in most cases,more specific
dietary modifications, along
with nutritional supplements, are required
to maximize the therapeutic
response.Over the past fifteen years,
having treated and helped hundreds
of patients with autoimmune disease,
I have found that the greatest
percentage of patients achieve excellent
results if they utilize a high-nutrient
dietary program rich in greens
and especially the cruciferous vegetables
such as cabbage,broccoli,and
kale in conjunction with some helpful
nutritional supplements.
The protocol has nine important
1. High-nutrient, vegan diet,
rich in green vegetables
2. Blended salads and blended
soups (utilizing leafy greens)
to increase absorption of
favorable phytochemical
3. Fresh vegetable juice
(See Autoimmune Disease on p.4.)

(carrots, beets, parsley, kale,
and other greens)
4. High-dose fish oils or plantderived
5. Beneficial bowel flora
6. Natural anti-inflammatory
herbs such as turmeric,
quercetin, ginger, and
7. Multivitamin/mineral,
plus additional vitamin D
8.Water-only fasting, used
periodically, if necessary
9. Dietary avoidance of salt,
wheat, and oil
Fueling your immune
system with greens
I recommend the daily consumption
of a thick vegetable soup, which can
be made in advance in large amounts
so it is readily available to use for
lunch the entire week. Zucchini,
leeks, and leafy greens such as chard,
cabbage, kale, bok choy, or broccoli
are added to a liquid base made from
freshly-squeezed vegetable juice and
water. Vegetables such as parsnips,
carrots, mushrooms, lentils, split
peas, and spices can be added, too.
What makes this soup unique is that
the leeks, zucchini, and other greens
are blended until smooth into the
soup liquid (veggie juice), increasing
the absorption of the beneficial compounds.
Softening vegetables via
soup cooking has been shown to
increase the bioavailability of beneficial
phytochemical compounds. I
also encourage the use of freshlysqueezed
vegetable juice using carrots,
parsley, beets, cabbage, and kale
before dinner as well. Pomegranate
juice is also a favorable addition.
Last, but not least, I teach patients
how to make a raw spinach and lettuce
blended salad, with fruits and
nuts or avocado added to make a
great tasting, high-nutrient treat.
Blending the salad to a creamy consistency
has the dramatic effect of
increasing absorption of beneficial
phytochemicals over 500 percent
compared with eating salad.
High dose fish oils
High doses of EPA (eisosapentaenoic
acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic
acid) have been shown to lower
immune reactivity and to inhibit inflammatory
response.These supplements
make important contributions
in the recovery of many patients.
Dosages in the range of 1.2 to
4 grams of the active components
(EPA + DHA) typically are needed.
Not all patients with autoimmune
disorders are fish oil responsive,and
the anti-inflammatory effect should
not be expected to lead to striking
improvements without implementing
all of the other components of
the dietary and nutritional program.
These EPA and DHA (long-chain
omega-3) fatty acids are used in
conjunction with a dietary program
that is low in omega-6 fats and saturated
fat. This fatty acid environment
suppresses the production of
pro-inflammatory substances that
normally are produced from increased
amounts of arachidonic
acid, derived from omega-6 fats.
Omega-3 long-chain fatty acids
also have been found to suppress
production of inflammatory cytokines
and cartilage degradation enzymes.
Their beneficial anti-inflammatory
effects have been demonstrated
in hundreds of randomized,
double-blinded, placebo-controlled
trials.It is difficult to understand why
well-studied, effective, natural substances
are generally ignored by the
medical community.Perhaps it is that
these substances do not provide the
industry with the opportunity for
substantial profit compared to what
is possible with patented prescription
Taking high doses of fish oil is not
without any risk, but compared to
drugs, the potential drawbacks are
slight. Fish oils are also susceptible
to contamination with lipophilic
organic chemicals that are now
ubiquitous contaminants of marine
ecosystems. Some fish-derived products
cannot be recommended for
this reason.
Recently, I have addressed this
concern by developing an all-plantderived
EPA and DHA supplement.
As far I can tell, it is the only allvegan
EPA and DHA available anywhere
in the world. It enables people
to get the same beneficial fats in
fish (including the EPA) without
the possibility of pollutants and
mercury. It is also freeze-dried to
extend shelf life and prevent rancidity.
Look for DHA-EPA Purity,
available at in
December 2004.
Supplemental bowel flora
The hundreds of billions of bacteria
cells that inhabit our bowels play a
critical role in the health of our
immune system. Seventy percent of
the immune system is located in the
gastrointestinal (GI) tract.The microflora
of the GI tract constitute a complex
ecosystem that can be viewed
as an organ of the body, as these
microbes profoundly influence physiologic
processes of the host.Certain
normal metabolic functions and
enzyme activities can be attributed
to the microflora, and these play a
role in metabolizing nutrients, vitamins,
drugs, endogenous hormones,
and carcinogens; synthesizing shortchain
fatty acids; preventing colonization
of pathogens; and modulating
the normal immune response.
The bowel offers some degree of
protection from harmful materials
which are ingested. The process of
absorption takes place via the
microvilli of the intestinal walls.
Normal bowel permeability permits
assimilation of nutrients while providing
protection against pathogens
Autoimmune Disease
Continued from page 3
(See Autoimmune Disease on p.6.)
280891 tn?1261016650
If you don't have an autoimmune disease, you shouldn't be posting on this portion of the site, in my own humble opinion.  I started this discussion to hear from people with *diagnosed* cases of one or more autoimmune diseases, and I seriously don't need to know how some doctor, somewhere, took a boy's tooth and inserted it into a hundred rabbits (seriously?!?!  Is that even possible?)  It only makes sense because plaque in the teeth is the same/leads to plaque in the heart, and I'm not shocked why the rabbits  all had heart attacks.  

This isn't a cancer, anti-meat, pro-raw food section of the website.  All I'm saying is that there's gotta be a common link, and if you cannot add anything to it (and you can't because you don't have an autoimmune disease nor did you scientifically study any) go somewhere else.  No offense, but cancer and raw food and toxin poisons are studied enough.  AI diseases are not.    

I'm glad that you are capable of looking up autoimmune diseases in books and thinking that foods are gonna cure it.  They aren't.  If they DID work, doctors would recommend them.  Again, I'm all for having a balanced diet, it's the starting point to being healthy.  

And just so you know, the liver and kidney process out mercury and other toxins.  Toxins have VERY LITTLE to do with the immune system.  They can't go into the extracellular materials and hide out as Borrelia burgdorferi, the culprit of Lyme Disease, does.  They get eliminated by the liver and kidneys and DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING to do with autoimmune diseases.  The worst things toxins can do is to immune systems is make them weak while our bodies process them out.  But that's ok, because when you have an autoimmune disease, your body's immune system is in hyperactive mode anyways.  So, IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.  

Another thing... I hope you aren't spending too much money on quack doctors, their books and websites.  If it works for you, great.  I'm glad for you.  But guess what?  I need my thyroid medicine, I need my beta blocker, or else I WILL have a heart attack.  Meds are NOT always a necessary evil.  And I need MRIs and not food, because even though I eat healthy and take vitamins, something is neurologically not correct with me and raw food isn't gonna do a damn thing about that.

If you're so raw food and yadda yadda yadda, go to THAT portion of the website.

I want answers from people who have autoimmune diseases, to see if we can find a common thread that doctors and researchers are just missing.  What I don't need is  "common sense meets quackery" that the two of you keep posting.  
Avatar n tn
I have/had Hashimoto's , Pernicious Anemia, and was close to having Diabetes...
am no where near the diabetes diagnoses any longer..the Hashimoto numbers are dropping along with my amount of compounded armour thyroid meds ( usually it's the other way around, the medical doctors like to raise your medication to make your antibody numbers to come down). The pernicious anemia is correcting itself with my diet changes...I've steadly decreased the amount of B-12 I have to take for the Pernicious Anemia as my body is better absorbing the B-12 from my diet I have cut down on the amount of wheat and gluten I am eating which has everything to do with the absorption rate in the intestines.

535822 tn?1443980380
Thank you for all the information I have just read from you allI am going to re read it and make notes there is so much would you give me Dr Fuhrman's website link ...My own input and I am not as knowledgeble as you, is that something triggered my syptoms (symptoms) of Autoimmune as I was reasonably okay till a dental trauma ,also I moved to an area of possible pesticides used in growing grapes for Wine ..Thank you all ,this is one great forum
642304 tn?1242610324
After reading the many useful posts that accompanied this comment, I will add to the discussion.  Are food (diet), heavy metal (and chemical) toxins important in these complex diseases?  Of course they are, and they need to be carefully considered in each case.  In general, we have found that most patients have poor quality diets for the condition that they suffer from.  Moreover, correcting diet and adding appropriate supplements can result in significant improvements, but correcting diet alone rarely resulted in complete recovery.

Can diet plus removal of toxins be the solution? In some cases they are and can certainly help, but often patients with complex signs and symptoms have these as well as other problems, especially infections that affect our immune system and cause complex signs/symptoms on their own. Foods and removal of toxins alone can't always solve the problem, but changes in diet, proper supplements and removal of offending toxins have certainly helped patients with complex problems.

Thus for most patients all of the above has to be considered.  For most patients with complex symptoms there is no one factor that can be corrected and allow for complete or even partial recovery.
Avatar n tn
Wouldn't you agree that there is NOT enough support for people to make the changes needed in the United help heal their bodies?  Most of the people that I have come across in the workshops I teach have NO CLUE what or how they are to make any of the changes you stated above ( diet, removal of toxins, taking of supplements).

Wouldn't it benefit the people who come to this forum to have a place to LEARN ALL of the therapies that are available?  A place that lists websites to check out alternative answers, besides the medical ones that are on this site?  Don't people deserve to have SUPPORT and INFORMATION to make the best decisions possible for their own health care?

I'm not talking about changing what's already in place here...but a new forum that is all about alternative therapies?

People need support to try new things.  The medical profession, I'm sure you'll agree, does a nice job of focusing on symptoms and dealing with those symptoms. And many times the drugs they use for symptoms cause MORE HARM than good. But many of us, including myself, want MORE answers.  Maybe the doctors here aren't feeling they are qualified to give advice about alternative therapies?  Can we get some doctors on board that are?  I would think that would benefit the people here greatly, because I know I am not the only one who wants MORE.

Thank you.
Avatar n tn
I was wondering why my questions didn't get answered?  Maybe Dr. Garth isn't here a lot.
Anyone else?
Avatar f tn
Where are the posts for 2012?
Avatar f tn
Where are the posts for 2012?
Avatar f tn
I was just passing through this forum and read your post with regards to having low white blood cell counts.  Mine has been low for years and I am afflicted with 4 different Auto-immune disorders.  They are all skin disorders.  There definitely is a CORE reason why some people get auto-immune disorders and others are never bothered. I always took better care of myself than either of my two older sisters, yet, I am the one with all the disorders.  Cannot find anyone else in my family with all these issues as well.  I am baffled and have been since being diagnosed with all of these insidious disorders.  I have Macular anyloidosis (I am of Norwegian descent, don't fit the mold on this one) Rosaeca, Lichen Sclerosis and Menieres disease.  I keep wondering what is waiting on me around the corner.  JUST WANTED to let you know your statement about the low WBC being prevalent in people with auto-immune disorders grabbed me....
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