Upper-mid Back Pain Only After Sleeping

[quiXilver]

For about 6 weeks I have been experiencing mid back pain when I wake up in the morning.  The pain is so bad, I cannot go back to sleep, and NO position change helps.  I must get out of bed and start walking around or sit in a chair for the pain to start going away.  After an hour or two, the pain basically disappears.  The pain seems to be emanating from my spine, and tensing up the back muscles nearest the spine.  

I have been seeing a chiropractor/massage therapist for about 4 weeks now, and it has not helped, because the pain is only after I sleep!

I am 23 years old. I help my dad deliver produce 2 times a week in the morning, and I am also a full time sales associate at Sears selling electronics (which I'm on my feet all day.)  That may cause a little lower back pain, but it goes away when I'm not working.

I have used a contour pillow, slept in all different kinds of positions (back and both sides), I always sleep with a full body pillow, and nothing has seemed to help.

I would appreciate any suggestions, thanks!

[Dgarbz]

I have had the exact same problem for approximately 4 years.  I kept mentioning it to my doctors and they kind of blew me off. They only told me it sounded like a disc problem but didn't say anything more.  So I ignored the problem. In the last year I started to also develope pain in my neck,shoulders as well as low back. I have had MRI's done of the Cervical spine(neck region) and Lumbar spine (lower back)  I have a lg hernated disc in my neck and degenetive disc disease with an annular tear in my lower back.  I am going to also request my doctors to do an MRI of Thoracic spine (middle back) because they haven't done an MRI of that section yet. I am not sure if the mid back problems is caused by these issues I know I have.  I would suggest you dig into the problem more.

[quiXilver]

Thanks for your response!  Have you tried the whole "changing your matress" deal?  If that doesn't work for me, or this doesn't get any better in the next month, I'll go see an orthopedic doctor.

[kitkat31625]

Yes I did try that and taking medications like Advil or Aleve.  Nothing ever really helped it.

[Skiparock]

As read your post, i felt like i was the one who wrote it. (i googled to see what is going on with my back and found this post)Since Monday, i awake to pain in my mid-back, stays within a 5 inch diameter with the spine being the center. It doenst matter where or how i lay down from that point on, the pain is constant until i stand up. once im up, no problems, infact, i don't feel it at all the entire day or even when i fall asleep. When i go to sleep, i hope that i can pass out before the pain starts again. Additionally, i have been lifting for about 2 years and never had any back problems until this past Monday. Nothing physically traumatic or anything that would give me a reason for why i have this weird pain. It is only when i wake up and only since this past Monday.

[Spectrum123]

I've the exact same symptoms, 3.5 years running.  Mine, too, started while doing frequent lifting while working at a retail location, often with 12 hour shifts, standing on unpadded concrete.  I've since had 100% desk jobs with no improvement.  

Pain isn't really all that big of a deal since it rarely lasts past 30 minutes after I wake up.  I'm just sick of the insomnia.  I've been to a variety of "care providers." with absolutely no results.

- Sever pain, enough to wake you up, usually about 3-4 hours after falling asleep.
- Laying down is all that's needed, not necessarily sleep, and starts after lying on a flat surface for about an hour.
- Found that after waking from sleep, I can move to some recliners/large chairs and fall back asleep as the sitting position allows the pain to subside.  I don't find sleeping in a chair comfortable enough to start the night in the chair.
- In terms of treatment, I've seen two orthopedic surgeons, two chiropractors, PT clinic, exercise physiologists.  I get a lot of assumptions that I'm talking about a lower back problem/sciatica which is complete wrong.  I did have sciatica which a little bit of PT cleared up.
- I've been on NSAIDs (ibuprofen and naproxen), muscle relaxers, antibiotics, neurontin, percocet, vicodin.  Only the NSAIDs in large amounts (800mg every six hours) helped a little bit for about a week, but now even they do nothing.  
- Heat, cold, TENS device (short and long treatments), chiropractic manipulation, even acupuncture (I'm desperate) treatments have done nothing.
- X-ray, MRI, CT scans, and Bone Spec all show that I'm normal.  
- Next up, I'm waiting to hear back from a sleep study that I had a few weeks ago.  Also will seek out a message therapist for myofascial release which I've been told might give me one good night.  I might seek out sleeping medication to try and just sleep through the pain.

Hopefully someone out there can put a name to this so I can start teh path to treatment...  I'm so tired.

Spec

[hurts]

I cannot believe that someone, anyone, has the exact problem I do and has been through all the same doctors, therapists, and tests to no avail. This happened to me rather suddenly for no apparent reason (no trauma at the most I lifted a heavy bag incorrectly), 4 yrs. ago and I have had only a few good nights since. I go to bed pain free and always wake with a severe pain in my thoracic spine which radiates around my ribcage to my sternum now. The only relief I can get is to either sit up or stand dependending on the level of pain, take pain meds and try to fall back to sleep (always sitting up as there is no possibility of laying down once the pain starts). I am hoping you have something new to offer and are feeling better. I am under the care of the Pain Mgmt. clinic but they admit to being stumped. So am I.

[Spectrum123]

It's weird that while I'd never wish this dilemma on anyone else, ever, there is some gratification in knowing others are dealing with the same thing.  I'm thinking about printing out this thread and taking it into my doc and seeing what he says.  Maybe you should take it your people.

'Til then, I'll stick to my routine of moving to my recliner every night after a few hours of pain.

[hurts]

I feel the exact same way and intend to do the same. I see a Dr. at the Pain Mgmt. clinic that I have been going to for over a year. I know that if he had ever heard of these symptoms before (he or the 2 Orthopedic Surgeons of the 2 PT's,2 Physical Medicine Dr.'s etc.)he would have said so. I have had numerous nerve blocks,and muscle injections,with some relief from the nerve pain but no interruption of the basic pain from thoracic to ribs and then to sternum (if I don't sit up in time). I have begun trying to go to sleep sitting up to avoid the onset but it is almost impossible and my tailbone is suffering. As far as someone mentioned, taking sleeping pills to sleep through the pain, my experience is that you will pay the price for not sitting up when you need to.You may be the only one who understands what I mean. If anything helps I will let you know.

[edelweiss]

Amazing that I can find people whe are experiencing the SAME EXACT pain as me.  I, too, can not sleep through the night.  All started back in September, back pain would wake me up, and at that point, I was unable to lie down.  I would get up, walk around, then prop up pillows and sit up in bed, hoping to fall back asleep.

As the months have gone by, the pain has progressively gotten worse.  4 to 5 hours after lying down, I am so stiff and uncomfortable, that I rarely fall back asleep.  I have had MRIs of low back, mid back and CT scans of pelvis and abdomen and also back xrays and a full body bone scan.  All were "unremarkable". I am amazingly stiff right in the morning, sometimes it eases up as soon as I shower, other times, like this morning, it's taking alot longer.  

Now, I have had lots of blood tests, CReactive Protein was high >10 and my latest was an ANA panel - I am awaiting the results of this.  My internist thinks it could be rheumotoligical, so after these blood results come back, I guess I will know.  

I feel for you.  I know how awful it is to just want to sleep.  I now have in my arsenal, Ambien, Soma (muscle relaxant) and hydrocodone.  I also tried Trimadol, but that didn't do much for me. I try various stretching exercises, some feel good, some don't.  

Good luck to you - do you think you could have something like arthritis??  Maybe, if you haven't done so, you could get some bloodwork done.  

[hurts]

So sorry to hear that you too, have this problem. Can you please tell me how it came on (gradually or slowly) and if it is in your mid thoracic area and where it radiates to?
That is a good question regarding the Rheumatology issue. I can't be sure, as this began 4 yrs. ago, but I know I had lots of blood tests. I will follow up on this with my M.D., thanks. When mine began, and it was sudden, there was fear that it was a metastisis from a malignant melanoma that I had. When I asked the first Ortho. Surgeon if he had ever heard of my symptoms he simply said "yes and that is why I am ordering an emergency MRI". Fortunately, other than a small benign Ostoid Osteoma, it was clear. Obviously if it had been a metastisis, I wouldn't be here as it would have been fatal. In light of all that I am able to keep strong, but wonder, how long a person can go without a full nights sleep. I know you understand.
Does the Ambien help for you and what is the hydrocodone?
I am very interested to hear the results of your blood tests. I sincerely hope you get an answer.

[Mrslee]

Hi - I have been waking most nights/early mornings with back pain right accross both shoulder blades. It gets worse when i take a deep breath and I have sharp pains. I soon as I get up it goes, almost within 30 mins.
I used to think it was my kidneys and the pain was going after I had been to the bathroom, now I am not sure if the pain is going just because I am up and moving. I do not get the pain at all during the day.I have no other symptoms ( I dont think) I have had blood tests, urine tests and X rays all of which are OK.
I would love to hear it anyone has any ideas what this could be as my Doctor has openly admitted he is stumped.
Ta..........

[edelweiss]

Hey hurts,
Mine came on very gradually and the pain has changed (in other words, it covers a broader area now), but has stayed very consistent.  Now it radiates to my ribs sometimes my chest feels stiff in the morning too.  Got my ANA panel back - my doctor said it showed some positive/some negative factors (she thinks it may be an auto-immune issue) and has referred me to a rheumatologist - I go on March 15th.  I live in a town that has only 2 rhuematologists (!), so I have to wait all the way till next month.  

The ambien definitely helps me fall asleep, but still have problems 4 - 5 hours into my sleep waking up from discomfort.  Am really hopeful to get an answer in March.  Hydrocodone is a pain reliever.  I think I'm becoming immune to all of it though, which kind of scares me.  

So, the wait continues. I'll keep you posted.  Take care.

[Spectrum123]

My back pain started as sciatica-like.  For years I dealt with it no big deal.  This particular pain went from: 1)causing me no less sleep, just waking up with pain to 2) waking up an hour or two early to 3) only being able to lie down for a couple hours before pain started and woke me.  From beginning to end about three months.  Then 3.5 years at level 3.

Anyone want to offer life style specifics?  

  At the time this started for me I worked, standing and walking on unpadded concrete floor for up to 15 a day, 4 times a week.  Very similar to the retail job mentioned in the first post.
  I'm 5'10", 220lbs.  Overweight, but morbidly obese.  Doctor does not think it's a factor.
  During the time of the pain I've gone from extremely out of shape, to fairly fit, and back again.  No changes.  No major weight changes either.


  Has anyone tired massage yet?
  Sounds like I don't need to bother with sleeping pills, and better if I don't.

thanks,
Spec

[hurts]

Hello Again,
   I really hope that the Rheumatologist can help. I did ask my family Doc. yesterday if we had checked those blood levels and we had w/o significant findings. I am going to repeat the blood tests today. I am getting more anxious as the pain in last two months or so, has begun to be a daytime problem as well. It is what I prayed would not happen. The nights were bad enough but at least the pain subsided when I sat up/got up. My neck and tailbone are also both chronically sore now from the years of sitting upright at night. I am seeing a chiropractor again as, even though she can't seem to help the initial pain site (thoracic area) she does help with the referred pain. I do recommend that.
    It is interesting that both of you have such similar symptoms yet Spectrum's came on gradually. I'd be interested in hearing how Edelweiss's began. I was in Europe with my daughter and awoke from sleep with terrible pain(I have had both labor pain and multiple kidney stones so I know)as I thought someone had snuck in and put a knife in my spine. I have had 4-5 nights without pain since. That was 4 yrs. ago in Dec..The only possible injury was slinging a "too heavy" bag over my shoulder running to catch a train or something (nothing I noticed at the time). The only other question was, whether or not it was a result of a virus, which I had at that time) with a very high fever.
    There is a good article in Women's Health this month in regards to Chronic pain and the fact that sometimes the nerve does not "shut off" long after the injury has healed. At least this would account for the fact that nothing shows on MRI's, X-Rays, CAT scans, Bone Scans etc., etc.. The hope was that the nerve blocks that I had would work "like shutting down and restarting your computer". One worked for 4 days, the next one 2 (they won't repeat them). Some people get as much as 6 mos. relief, so it may be worth talking to you Dr.s about.
Best Wishes, Hurts

[hurts]

Sorry I realized you did say how it came on (gradually). Let's hope it starts to leave the same way!

[Referred pain]

It is really amazing that there are so many people experiencing the exact same pain under the same conditions, yet the solution is still a mystery.  I typed "pain mid-back morning" into the search engine which brought me to this site.  I am a 53 year old male of average size and weight.  In my case, the excruciating pain every morning between my shoulder blades and mid-spine area started about 3 months.  It usually starts around 4 A.M.  Sometimes it is so bad that the only way for me to cope with the pain is to get up walk around for an hour.  There is no position change in bed or sitting that helps relieve this pain.  (Sound familiar??) The pain disipates as the day goes on.  By mid-day, the pain is a dull ache in my back.  Lately this dull ache has stayed with me until bed time.  Like many of you, I dread going to sleep because I know I'll wake up in excruciating pain.  Ambien doesn't help me sleep through the pain.  Pain killers like oxycodone (percocet, etc.) provide only minimal relief. Unfortunately I have a very high tolerance to narcotic pain killers.  One 10 mg oxycodone to me is no stronger than an extra strenth tylenol.  

My situation is a little different than others and MAY SHED SOME LIGHT for some -or maybe suggest something to look into.  

About 1 and a half years ago, my lumbar spine was in pretty bad shape and I needed surgery.  As of a year ago I still had not had the back surgery and another serious problem occurred.  I tore the labrums and rotator cuffs in both shoulder joint sockets as a result of incorrect weight lifting....I know...it was stupid to do this with my lower back the way it was......don't ask :(  

I had 3 low-back disks fused about 5 months ago and have recovered fairly well from this through physical therapy.  But just prior to my back surgery as luck would have it, the torn structures in both my shoulders started causing me significant upper arm pain 24/7.  This got significantly worse over time and is now so bad that I can't find a comfortable sleeping position except for sleeping on my back.  That is not ideal for me because: (1) I can usually fall aslepp only if I am sleeping on either side, and (2) I know my mid-back pain will start a few hours after I fall asleep on my back.

I have 5 different types of doctors: an orthopedic shoulder surgeon, an orthopedic spine surgeon, an internist, a pain management specialist (anesthesiologist) and a chiropractor.  They all suggest THE SAME THING....Specifically that my mid-back pain is a result referred pain of my torn labrum and rotator cuffs in both shoulders.  Apparently there is a major nerve coming from your shoulders to your mid-spine.  

I've had recent MRIs of both shoulders and my entire spine (lumbar, thoracic and cervical).  The MRIs confirm the torn labrum and rotator cuffs in both shoulders.  They show that my lumbar spine has healed nicely and my titanium hardware is firmly in place.  They also show degenerative spine disease and arthritis at all levels of my spine that are common in a person my age and with my medical history.  (Fortunately I live in Arizona, so snow shoveling is not a problem!)

I will eventually have surgery on both shoulders (one at a time!).  But timing it right with work and life is a challenge.  For now, I am having Nerve Blocks on both shoulders this Monday.  If this works, then I will have radio ablation therapy on both shoulders.  For those who may not know about this, it is a procedure that "shocks" the nerve enough to stop it from transmitting the pain impulses.  Or I may go straight to the shoulder surgeries.  Either way, I will report the success of the Nerve Blocks next week.    

I apologize for writing such a long entry.  I hope it will help someone.

[drm123]

SAME EXACT pain started app. 3 months ago.  2-3 hrs into sleep, pain wakes me up at which point I have to sit or stand, walk around until it goes away.  I've discovered that if I use two pillows, I can sleep through the night so that the pain doesn't wake me up.  It is still present in the morning, but not as bad as it would be if I slept in a regular, horizontal position with only one pillow, which is how I slept all my life.  Sleeping on 2 pillows helps the thoracic area, but my lower back is suffering as a result.  Recent X-rays show no signs of problems.  Chiropractor didn't help.  He thought it was a pinched nerve.  Haven't yet tried PT even though I have been referred by an orthopedic surgeon.  She thinks it is a twisted ligament or tendon since the pain doesn't radiate elsewhere.  In the morning, I can even feel the pain when swallowing as the food passes through that area.  

I am almost 31 yrs old, 6ft, 200 lbs.  No specific injury that might have caused it.  I have a desk job, although I do stand up often and walk around the office.  I play occasional table tennis.  Talk on the cell phone a lot, w/o headphones, often I will feel the pressure in the shoulder area from this, which soon disappears after a long talk.  

Someone mentioned a virus.  I did have a strong case of strep throat, which coincided with the problem.  I'm not sure if the bacteria had anything to do with causing this.  

I get the sense that from reading all your comments, any PT, MRI, etc., might not help.  I've started thinking of perhaps trying acupuncture or s/thing similar.  I'm not sure what.  I will continue posting and updating as I will continue to look for solutions.  

[saltymuffin]

I am having the EXACT same problem.  I find that my pain is the worst when I lay on my back.  I can ususally get an extra hours sleep by moving to my side.

I have not yet seen the huge number of doctors that you all have.  Only GPs so far who seem to expect it to go away by itself.  

The only additional symptom I have is an odd peeling of one fingertip that never heals.  This has led me to think that the issue is likely nerve related.

I will be watching this thread closely to see if anyone has any progress, and will let you know if I learn anything myself!

[friedl53]

EVERYONE with back problems, no matter the diagnosis, NEEDS to read one of Dr. John E. Sarno's books.  This man has helped thousands with chronic back problems with drugs/surgery. I was diagnosed (by MRI) with a slipped vertebrae (yes, vertebrae) and condition called spondylothesis.  This "condition" caused me low back pain, sciatica, tingling in my ankles, toe and lower leg.  After reading Sarno, my pain is GONE and I'm not alone.  Just check out all the people who have posted comments about Sarno on Amazon. com's book site. Also, do a search for Sarno on Wikipedia and open the link provided by ABC News 20/20 and John Stossel.  Sarno helped him after 15 years of back pain.  Forget the surgery.  Forget the drugs.  Get pain-free.  Get your life back. Read Dr. Sarno!!

[friedl53]

Please excuse a typo I made in my previous post.  I meant to write that Sarno helps back pain patients WITHOUT drugs/surgery, rather than WITH surgery.  His method is not without controvery, but I'm here to tell all of you with back problems that his method does work.  

[needsleep]

It is somewhat a relief to hear other people having the EXACT same issues as I am going through.  Here it is almost 4:00am and after researching on the net since I awoke at at 1:00am I have finally found other people like myself.  I definitely feel everyone's pain.  My thoracic mid-back pain has been going on for about 3 weeks now waking me up consisently every night after about 4 hours of sleep and it goes away roughly 30 minutes after getting out of bed and sleeping upright in a chair is not an option.  I have seen a pain doc, neurosurgeon, and physical therapy along with taking sleeping pills, celebrex, & flexeril.  Everyone is completely stumped with this issue and no meds have helped at all.  I plan on printing out everyone's comments, etc to bring them to my doctors.  Maybe this my trigger a spark of some sort.  If I hear of anything I will definitely pass along the info.  Thank you for posting your issue.......    

[needsleep]

Are you a stomach, side, or back sleeper?  I'm a stomach sleeper and I have recently started TRYING to sleep on my back and it has made a difference with my pain.  It doesn't completely take away the pain in the middle of the night, but enough to sleep through it as long as I stay on my back the entire night.  I have to surround myself with pillows so I don't try to roll on my stomach in the middle of the night (thankfully my wife understands).  I have only been able to do this 3 or 4 nights, so the jury is still out.  I'm just wondering if sleeping on your back makes that much of a difference.  Thank you for any response.

[DannyH]

This may be a shot in the dark. I have all the exact same symptoms, waking after about 4 hours of sleep with back spasms. I grind my teeth bad at night (maybe TMJ). I talked with my dentist about the jaw pain today and he explained it was from grinding and clinching in detail. I was driving home and it dawned on me. Can TMJ or nightly jaw clinching cause my back spasms? Makes sense, I grind my teeth and clinch my jaw for 4 hours straight without knowing it.

The dentist said you apply a constant 400 lbs per square inch of presure on your jaw muscles at night and keep doing it because your not aware of it. When your awake you dont do it. I called him when I got home and explained my back spasms, sore shoulders and neck muscles and asked if the jaw clinching could cause muscle spasms in my back. He said "absolutley"! he has patients with these symptoms and told me he could fit me with a custom night guard that costs $650.00 so tonight Ill sleep with my teeth whitening plastic guard ( 5 bucks!) that is similar and see if it prevents the grinding.

Research TMJ or nightly jaw clinching associated with back spasms. Since no doctors are associating this with back spasms it just may be whats causing them. Hey, its worth looking into, I cant find a solution. I just spend $1500.00 on a Tempurpedic mattress, slept on it last night and woke again paralysed in back spasms yet again, its every night for me. I get up, prop up on the couch with some pillows and it slowly subsides then its fine all day with the exception of some soreness from the spasms. Just a thought. Im miserable.

[wombmate]

It still amazes me how many of us have this problem and it is so hard to find the "diagnosis" or some relief. I was so miserable again this morning too. I have seen gastroenterologists and different MDs for this problem. I just need some sleep, I am so tired of waking in the middle of the night in so much pain and unable to get back to sleep because of the pain. I'm going to research TMJ and back spasms...I'm open for suggestions. Thanks

[MaggieB]

I'm a 32 yr old mother of three, who in the past has suffered form various bad bouts of quite severe lower back pain due to an injury I suffered when I was 13.
These bouts come and go and I can mostly manage without intervention.  This time round the pain, as described by everyone here, is the most disturbing.  Lack of sleep, with the pain sometimes taking 1 to 2 hrs to subside once i'm awake, is sending me mad. Interesting comment from DannyH.  I often wake with really stiff jaws as well as with the back pain, When first openeing my mouth it takes quite some effort and both jaws click, which in itself is quite uncomfortable.  I haven't yet sort any medical advice as for all this time I thought it was my mattress and previous back injury.  Will keep looking for updates and let you know how I get along.
MaggieB( from down under)

[Need relief]

Hi, I also have the same mid-back pain after sleeping about 3 hours. It hurts to turn over or even take a deep breath. I am 35, recently had twins, am still about 10 pounds overweight and have bad posture. I'm wondering if the weight and posture have anything to do with the pain.?.? Does anyone else have bad posture and some extra weight on them?
Thanks!

[ssjdecube]

hey guys, here are my 2 cents:

It actually does make sense that it could be a TMJ problem. Grinding of teeth cause immense pressure and muscle spasms in your jaw, thus causeing pain. I know, you wonder how can my jaw influence my back, right? Your jaw muscle tire out, and recruit other muscle groups to help carry some of the work. Its that same thing with any muscle group, as you notice as you are working out and get to the end of a set, your form is off, as your body subconsciously recruits other muscles when in need. Now the problem is that after a while, these muscle start to stay in spasm instead of constantly relaxing. This changes your alignment and causes some muscles to be stretched and others to be shortened. This makes these muscles easier to tire, and thus can cause pain in the mid back, as I can guess most of you don't have good posture to start with. I would get a mouth guard made and atleast try it out.

Other option is it could be a rib problem, especially when it radiates into your sternum. You should be able to feel one rib that is painful to pressure in the front, back or side. If you have fallen or been hit it makes this likely.

One final condition that also can produce pain like this is costo-chondritis. Its inflammation in the cartalge between the ribs and can be very painful, but very treatable.

Hope this helps, and check out www.chirofacts.info to find a dentist or other doctor near you

[Bolwar]

WOW! I too did not know there were so many fellow undiagnosed sufferers of the same symptoms. Mine have been around at least a year. I,too,have had MRI's,x-rays and chiropractic intervention...to no happy end. Mine started with a burning pain between my right shoulder blade and my spine. I get tingling on top of both shoulders,and have quite a bit of upper neck pain. I,too,wake very early with pain that feels like someone has attached vice-grips to my spine,between my shoulder blades,then squeezes. It usually radiates to my ribcage,sometimes to my chest. I take ambien regularly (small doses);and hydrocodone and ibuprofen for the ache. But,like most of you,getting up and about for a while seems to make it go away.
I am 60,male. Interestingly,in about 1975,while bending into a grocery cart,I experienced intense,nearly paralyzing pain in that area. Thought it was a heart attack. I barely made it home (I was alone,and unable to turn my head on the drive home). My wife called the Dr.,who prescribed muscle relaxants. Three days later,it was gone. But it was the EXACT SAME PLACE as now.
The only other odd symptom is that that place in my spine also sometimes gets very numb at the surface,while still radiating ache,as does my neck.
*** I think it VERY important to all the good people here that if any of us get an answer as to what their malady is,that you let us all know,so that we may pass it on to our own medical providers for consideration & evaluation.***
Good luck to all.
Tim

[chadry]

I was so glad when I found this forum. I have the same thing. In fact I should be sleeping right now but had to get out of bed, I had a hard time just rolling over. I hurt so bad in the morning and it is so hard even to try and breath. I have problems with the discs in my neck one in my low back. I can't believe so many people have this problem also. Sometimes I get it during the day but that is rare.Some days I would get a stack of pillows and lay over top of them to see if it would relieve the pressure. It helped sometimes. I have missed work because of this. Mine started with a work related injury to my back and neck.
I actually bought this thing I seen on tv for exercising called the bean. It said when you turn it over it releives back stress, well I was desperste for some relief and to my amazement it works. It makes a big arc that stretches the back. My only problem is that it is so big I have no where to keep it inflated to use on a regular basis so when I really need it I have to inflate it. It does help though. Maybe you can try the stack of pillows first to see if that helps. Sorry to hear so many people feel the same thing but at least I know I am not the only one with this same thing.
Good luck.

[Bolwar]

Out of curosity,have any of you had Bell's Palsey? Did you have it while thses mid-back issues were there also?
Thanks

[wombmate]

I have posted on here before also with the exact same kind of morning pain. It wakes me usually around 3-4 am and I'm unable to go back to sleep because I can't get comfortable. I have a glimmer of hope...this could be far fetched but has anyone done the saliva test where they check 5 different hormones in your body? One of those hormones is your cortisol level, if I understand it correctly, that can tell if your adrenals are working properly, it does have something to do with your 'fat' hormone also. I know the adrenals lay right above our kidneys. This is where my pain is, it feels like it radiates to the front, yet I can't put my finger on it. It is possible that we have a form of adrenal fatigue, could that make the adrenals give us pain?  I have a dr appt tomorrow and will get my kit at that time to do the test, then I send it in and they evalutae my levels. I will keep you posted as to my results. I am feeling pretty hopeful about this, I have very little energy but thought it was because of my sleep pattern...or lack of.
thanks

[josefm93]

i too have the same pain in my mid back during 5 to 6 hours of sleep...out of curiousity too, any of you have been taking cholesterol pill (lovastatin) or high blood pill (lisinopril)?..email me ***@**** thanks

[JHOUS]

I have an unbelieveable amount of pain in my neck, chest and shoulders if I walk to far or bend over a lot.  It is like a combination of a spasm and something  heavy crushing the bones of my upper back and chest.  When it happens I cannot lay down or the pain increases, the only position that helps is straight up in a chair with my neck supported.  Like the rest of you, I cannot bear to lay in bed some nights, and I usually have to get up and stand in a hot shower one or two times each night just to loosen up or stop the spasm.  This started about a year ago, right after my father died.  I have been diagnosed with arthritis in my neck, but the pain was never like this.  I also have TMJ....so I am beginning to wonder if the stress of the past year has caused my TMJ to be more pronounced which is straining/twisting my neck at night...and perhaps pincing a nerve in the process.  My doctor likes to just give me rounds of steroids and anti-imflam.  but nothing works long term.  

I think the TMJ thing has a lot of merit....has anyone else noticed that their pain may have started after a stressful or traumatic event rather than an actual injury?  

One final note to josefm93....I do take Lisinopril as well, but I have been on it for a few years and this terrible pain is less than a year.

[Muppy]

I am glad also to have found this forum.
My pain started in the lower right rib cage. CT, MRI, bloodwork....Some disc problems. Then a few months later the muscle spasms started in the mid back region.
Sleeping on my sides hurts, ok on my back. It feels much better after walking around for a while. Sudden shooting pains across the mid to lower back are so bad, it feels like getting stabbed with a knife.
Went to see a pain management doctor. He thinks the nerve endings in the spine are getting pinched. Wants to start epidurals.
I also take Lisinopril and have for several years.
Pressure hurts sometimes and sometimes not.
Where is a Dr. House when you need one.

[Gurps]

Hi all...
I have more or less the same problem as most of you..
Well every morning i wake up .. i have this wierd back pain. It is just on the left side of my spine, at the middle-top of the back..
The pain usually stops after 1-2 hours of when i get up. Frequently the pain comes back in the evening...but thats occasional.
The middle of the back, on the left side of my back, is sore when i touch it. The pain has been going on for a couple of months now. And i have a feeling that it is the mattress. Because the springs stick out quite a bit. But i have slept on a air bed for a while...
I am not sure because , for some reason it is only on the one side of my back. I havent seen a doctor, because i doubt he will do anything about it.

The pain is just an aching pain. Its hurts more as i tilt my head forewards.
If anybody has any suggestions, then please , please contact me via email.

gurpal_marway***@****

Many thanks, Gurpal

[Tim McCratic]

It is amazing to hear everyone talking about this pain.  I have experienced this pain since 2004.  All the doctors i have went to have pretty much blown me off, or had no idea.  I have had MRI's and CT scans of my entire spine and one Doctor even removed my gull bladder thinking it was referred pain.  I have been to a DO, Orthopedic Surgeon, Neurologist, 2 Physiatrists, Chiropractor, and a MD.  No answers. For awhile i was starting to think I was making up the pain because no-one could diagnose me, and no test showed anything significant. My wife is a Physical Therapist and she has never seen anything like this.  I am going to bring this into my doctor and see if  she can figure it out.  Just feels good to know someone understands me.  

[eemia]

Since about a month after giving birth in December 2006 I have woken in the early morning hours, usually 3am to 4am, with a mid to lower back pain.  It almost feels as though I had the wind knocked out of me as it hurts more when I try to take a deep breath.  It is difficult to move around in bed in an attempt to find a comfortable position.  Once I get up and move around for about 20 minutes it is as though it never happened.  Prior to the baby I had no back problems, injuries, pain, etc.

I am a nurse on a busy Medical/Surgical floor.  I work nights, 11pm to 7am,  so this is only an issue for 3 nights a week that I am home, however, I am frustrated when it happens because those 3 nights of sleep are extremely important.  When I am able to sleep during the day for longer than a few hours I do not experience the back pain.

I have no medical history of back related issues and I am really very healthy.  I am 33 years old.  I am 5'4" and weigh 185 pounds.  I ranged from 170 to 200 pounds consistently for the last 15 years.

I did have an epidural during labor and I had to have a C-section due to fetal distress.  I don't know if that could be related to this issue.  I am grateful not to have the chronic pain throughout the day that many deal with on a day to day basis.  If I have to live with this I can, but I would just like to know what may have prompted this problem and what makes it continue.  Also I am concerned about the lack of sleep.  I get no more than 4 uninterrupted hours of sleep per day.

Please keep sharing any current findings related to this issue.

[darquestar]

I am a 37 year old mother of 3. over the last 3-4 months i have been experiencing exactly what you are all talking about. this morning, it was the most painful it's ever been. i haven't been to a doctor yet for exactly the reasons you have all stated. i know they will do a million tests & find nothing. my pain also goes away after i have been up for a while, though can be bothersome during the day, esp. when driving. i was in a car wreck about 2 years ago but didn't seem to have any injuries at the time. and i do carry my baby around these days. ???
the pain started in my neck & shoulder on the left side & has now moved more to middle of my back & right shoulder.
i am so frustrated. been to a chiropracter...that was quite painful though it seemed to help for a few weeks. went to a massage therpist the other day & thay helped for about 2 days.
i don't know. there was one post about a malignacy or a tumor which was rather frightening but it seems like that would make itself known other times than just after sleep?

[mike1105]

[mike1105]

THE MOST COMMON CASUE OF MiD_BACK PAIN IS WEAKNESS IN RTHE MID BACK MUSCLES. they go into spasm becasue they are too weak to support the spine and compete WITH THE OVERDEVELOPED MUSCLES OF THE CHEST AND THE FRONT OF THE NECK, WHICH PULL US FORWARD AND INTO A HUNCHED POSITION. THE MID BACK MUSCLES NEED TO BE STRENGTHENED BY DOING EXERCISES THAT PNCH YOUR SHOLDER BLADES TOGETHER AND PULL YOUR BODY UPRIGHT--EXTENSION EXERCISES. MUSCLES IN THE MID BACK SHOULD NOT-- I REPEAT--SHOULD NOT BE STRETCHED-- THEY ARE ALREADY TO STRETCHED OUT AND WEAK FROM ROUNDED POSTURE. ITHIS IS NOT A NEUROLOGICAL ISSUE AT ALL. IT IS A POSTURAL/MUSCLE BALANCE ISSUE. CHIROPRACTORS CANT FIX MUSCLE PROBLEMS. YOU NEED TO DO IT YOURSELF. GET A BOOK ON POSTURE BY PAUL D'AREZZO AND VISIT A WEBSITE BY JOLE BOOKSPAN.

[loulou99]

OMG - i just found this website.  I was sad because I just had an MRI yesterday and they found nothing and although I should be relieved, I'm depressed because no one can diagnose me.  My PT thinks it's arthritis in my facet joint on the side of my spine.  That's the closest diagnosis I can get.  I wake up about 4 hrs after going to bed (for 5 months now) I used to get up and sleep in the recliner and now I tough it out by either using more pillows or getting into the fetal position.  I have a sleep number bed and it's nice and firm and it has done wonders for my husbands back - he has degenerative disk disease.  The pain is on my right side - mid back - sometimes spreading to right under the shoulder.  I have a TENS unit that sometimes helps.  I wear it 3 to 4 hrs before bed with heat for 1 hr.  Also, everytime I have an ultrasound done at the PT, I sleep for a couple of nights.  They work well.  At PT, I got to a point to where I was doing better and they started having me do more excercises and my back got really jacked up.  So they stopped the excercises again and I'm back to ultrasounds and heat/cold.  I have an appt for a Pain Doc next week.  It's so weird.  I can feel it when I turn my upper body to the left or right, but it doesn't hurt until I'm sleeping.  My PT jokes that I am a freak....lol.  They are all trying to figure it out, but have no clue.  It makes me feel better to know that I'm not alone in this, although I know just how much it sucks for all of you.  

[jlhutch]

I am having the exact same problem.  I am 23 and in good shape.  But for the past 6 months or so I have waken up with horrible back pain in my mid back around my spine.  Sometimes it even hurts when I breath in deep.  Pain eventually goes away after I get up and walk around, however, sometimes it stays with me and will get sharp pains in my middle back if I move in a particular position.  I know my fiance and parents think I'm crazy b/c I should not have back pain like this at my age.  But i am so sick of my back hurting all the time!  Any advice?

[Goofpod]

Mike1105, I think you're onto something here. Having read several forums on similar research terms it appears there are many different causes with similar symptoms. For me, it's a deep-rooted ache that develops in mid-spine area while sleeping that will not allow me to go back to sleep upon half-waking while turning over etc. At that point no position helps- only getting up and moving on with the day- which means I am not well rested and the other parts of the body suffer. In bed, the pain is considerably worse at the end of EXhalation (not breathing in) when the lungs are empty- this is when the pain is BAD. My job does require a lot of computer time (typically bad posture) and I have a L4/l5 disk herniation injury that I'm recovering from. I seriously don't think that disk injury is directly related to this issue other than causing me to become less active and putting on some weight. Next step related to that injury is losing some of this extra weight and specifically strengthening my multifidus muscles (http://www.amazon.com/Multifidus-Back-Pain-Solution-Exercises/dp/1572242787) --- which I believe could have a direct result on this pain problem as well. The multifidus muscle connection to back pain is one that's just now becoming apparent. Ask your doctor what a multifidus muscle is and I'll bet he/she doesn't know... FYI, I also ordered the posture book you recommended and am going to immediately start paying attention to my mid-back posture etc. This is likely a heal-thyself issue due to weakness in the back. Good luck, y'all!   - Ralph

[foundhound]

I've lucked onto this site, and read all the comments here with much interest. I've been experiencing early morning low back pain for going on 6 mos now. Typical symptoms are it arrives after several hours of lying down ( doesn't matter my position,back,front,side ). It usually begins to subside within an hour or so after rising. I'm in good shape physically, otherwise.  I've only had one prior experience with back pain in my life, and that lasted for a couple of days. I've seen a doctor for xrays, negative. I've tried exercise, stretching, muscle relaxers,etc. all to no avail. The info Mike1105 has posted looked interesting to me, so I've begun to implement some of the ideas from Dr.Bookspans website. I think my posture isn't as good as it could be, so  I'm working on that.

Something very interesting happened to me this morning. Normally I give my hamstrings a quick ( 30 second )stretch before getting out of bed ( my pain being it's usual reliable self ). This morning I decided to extend my stretch to a full minute on each side, and repeated 3 times. I then flipped onto my side, and within approx. 5 minutes, my pain was gone! After getting up to go about my business, I walked my back up against the wall, and to my amazement I was able to place my self flat ( including legs ) with absolutely no effort. I've never been able to do this before. One day is too soon to pronounce anything, but I have hope ( which is something I haven't had in months ). Ultra tight hamstrings, could it be that simple?????

[foundhound]

I realize I mispoke in my previous post. I said I took muscle relaxers when I meant to say anti-inflammitories.. My next step ( if the stuff on Dr. Bookspans site doesn't help solve the issue ) will be to get a prescription for a muscle relaxer as I'm coming to belive that tight muscles( in particular the hamstrings ) are the primary cause of my pain.

[loulou99]

I took muscle relaxers and they didn't help.  I'm going to ask my pt about the hamstring muscles, and I'm sure at this point the muscles are involved, but I'm not sure.  My pt said the following to me recently.

You have arthritis in the facet joint on your spine.  In the middle of the night, those joints freeze up, causing a chain reaction of a muscle spasm and that spasm hits a nerve and that's what the shooting pain is from.  
So they also suggested many excercises to strengthen my mid back - I work at a computer as well - and the activity to those muscles made it worse and they had to do an ultrasound to calm it down.  So I can run, but I can't do any strength training which sucks for me.  I'm not sold on the whole arthritis thing, but I believe there is something too the idea of having a stronger back to support everything, I just wish I could effectively excercise.

[Goofpod]

You should definitle check out the multifidus muscle connection/theory. It makes total sense and is historically overlooked. I've just started the specific exercise regimen to work them and gain strength. Stated beginning results in about two weeks. We'll see and I'll post...

[obiemsue]

I have just found this forum.  I have suffered with severe back pain for several years.  I have severe pain in my spine in midback, starting at shoulder blades and going down my spine.  The pain is deep in my spine.  I have had MRIs, showing multiple bulging discs,  degenerative discs.  I try to explain it to my pain doctor.  I feel hopeless at times, as there seems to be little help.  I was on Neurontin and muscle relaxers,  now she has suggested Topamax, which scares me.   The pain also radiates around my ribs.  I keep thinking a rib is broke.  I have not been told about ultrasound or any other therapy, except for injections,  and I have had a lot of those.  I was seeing a physical therapist who specialized in the McKenzie method,  which I do believe helps with lower back problems, herniated discs, etc.  It did help some of my back troubles.  Check out his book if you suffer from disc problems in lower back or neck.  It really fixed my herniated disc in my neck.

[loulou99]

ok, this won't apply to most, but I have great news for me.  After my MRI, I was disgusted to find that nothing showed.  My husband said, ok, we know that there is nothing serious going on, so something is causing it.  So we looked at what drugs I am taking and figured out that 2 months prior to this, I had started a birth control pill called YAZ.  I stopped taking it 6 days ago just to see what would happen and I'm not kidding you, my back pain has almost stopped.  I can still feel the place in my spine, but I have almost full range of motion in the morning, which I never had and I've slept thru the night for the last 4 nights.  What a difference.  Maybe for some of you you should check out exactly what kind of medications you are taking and check the side affects.  I can't believe after all of the therapy, that this was the root of the problem.  My pt said that he agrees with me and will write this down and remember the next time he sees someone with the same pain.  Hope this helps someone.

[Wendals00]

I am 25 active and generally fit.  I have suffered from a "not soo good back" in my teens and have a slightly curved lower back with a smaller disk space between the lower disks.  I have found when its Summer or I move around more in my sleep I wake with the same radiating pain.  Last summer I had a period of about a month where I would wake constantly from it and get up and walk around and it would go.  Eventually it stoppd but now its mildly starting again only when I wake in the morning.  Its like a throbbing or cramping pain to either side of my spine...under my sholders.  Does your pain feel the same?
Thanks Wendy

[loulou99]

spoke too soon.  I guess I was just having some good days, cuz my back is jacked up again and I've been off those pills for over a week.  Going back to the therapist tomorrow.  

[bwatkins]

I to am having the exact problems as the rest.  It started at 3am 2 weeks ago. I've never had any kind of back problems, I'm in good shape, and don't do any work that would be considered stressful for the back.  I woke up at 3am with a terrible pain in the mid back area and have had the same thing every night for the last 2 weeks.  I AM SO TIRED!!!!  My wife and I have been shopping for a new matress thinking this might be the issue.  After reading this I'm thinking that $2000 spent on a new matress may be a waist of time and money. Someone in an above post mentioned Cholesterol medication.  I've been taking Crestor for 3 or 4 months and have not had probems up until 2 weeks ago.  Could this be a possible issue??  Has anyone else just tried changing to a better matress??

[loulou99]

We bought a sleep number bed, which I admit, when I'm falling asleep, I'm extremely comfortable. It's only in the middle of the night that it starts hurting.   Also, my husband has degenerative disk disease and ever since we've had that bed (knock on wood) he has not had any "flare up's".  But I still am having this problem and I have the sleep number to a firm setting.  

[cindyk089]

Hi all. I too have had this back pain, but I have had it for years. I am sorry to say it is arthritis. I started having shoulder pain when I was 30. I am now 50. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night with such horrible mid back pain that I couldn't breathe. It now radiates around my rib cage, and even my guts hurt. It is relieved when I get up just like the rest of you. I have been on arthritis meds, which help a little, but I found something that actually took the pain away completely and gave me the energy of a 20 year old.

I have gained some weight over the years and decided to go on a diet with my friend. We did the Michael Thurmond diet. Absolutely no salt, no dairy, no bread. All I could eat was meat, vegetables, fruit and potatoes or rice. Within 1 week, one day I noticed i didn't have any pain in any of my joints. It was amazing. I could get down on the floor and back up with absollutely no effort. I started moving around and noticed that I had no pain anywhere. I turned my neck in all different directions - no pain. I bent over to touch my toes - no pain. My hips weren't hurting, no back pain, nothing. I felt so energetic too!!!

Like all diets, I stuck it out for a couple of weeks. About the 3rd week, all my pain came back again. I want to go back on that diet again and test my theory. I have not been joint pain free in years. This was a miracle!

[loulou99]

ok, so I went back to the pt and he gave me a 12 minute ultrasound and I woke up this morning pain free.  He also talked to his partner and they think that I was having refered pain from my liver.  That my liver didn't like filtering the pill I was taking and the most common place that the liver refers pain to is the shoulder.  Now, he said he knows mine was a bit lower in the mid back, but the liver can cause refered pain in different areas.  For them, he said that would explain why my back stopped hurting the day after I stopped that pill.  Then I went back to my pt the next week for my "final" appt, thinking it was all good, and he had me over at the gym working out my back showing me excercises to do.  He said that's why my back "jacked up" again, because we flared it up and it was still trying to heal from the place it all started.  The ultrasound was able to relax everything and I woke up this morning with great mobility.  He says now not to work out my back for about a month and just take it easy and it should all heal - after all, that refered pain can cause injury to your muscles and tissue.  So, I'm pain free today, and I'll let you all know if it comes back.  

[jeepgeorge]

I am up early this morning due to my sharp pains mid back.  I sleep great for 5-6 hours, and then I wake up almost gasping for breath.  This has been going on for 3 or so weeks.  In these 3 weeks I have done many diff. things to attempt to curb the pain so I can return to sleep.  A combo of two things sometimes helps me out.  After I wake up I get into a hot shower for 10-15 minutes.  After the shower my pain somewhat subsides.  I than wake my wonderful wife (who also is getting frustrated with this new morning routine) I then ask her to push 1 finger into the tense/tight area(s).  She focuses pressure in that area with very deep and hard circular motions.  After 60or so seconds the pain goes away just enough to go back to sleep for another few hours before getting up for work.  

I am 25 years old, and live a very active lifestyle, not sure what triggered this pain.  Never really had any back pains other than a traffic crash a few years go.  It’s strange that something like this all of a sudden just shows its ugly face.  Many of you have gone to the DR. returning with no result.  I think I will try the electric shock therapy.

I have been using the above method for a week or so, It has helped me to return to sleep.  When doing this push deep enough in the tight area to feel more pressure than the soreness of the back pain.  My wife said she can feel a lump or the tightness while she is pushing.

Hope this can help.

Thanks

[tyfulmski]

I am glad to have found this forum, it has given me a little perspective and reassurance.  It is nice to see that the symptoms don't indicate something that is life threatening.  I have had the pain for about 1.5 years now.  I am a 26 years old, healthy, acitve male.  
I have suffered from lower back / hip pain that comes and goes ever since I was 16.  That pain however, can usually be traced to an activity or event that brings the pain on.  With this sleep pain I am at a total loss.  I have been to the doctor 3 times.  Muscle relaxants, nope, physical therapy, nope, acupuncture, nope, chirpractic, nope, now I will see an ortho specialist to see what they recommend.  The only thing I have found that helps to bring some kind of relief in stretching / yoga, but even that relief is short lived and inconsistent.  The pain is never severe until about 4-6 hours of bed rest, goes away in the day but is generally sore and tight.  I tried the TMJ thing suggested on this forum, but the mouth gaurd kept falling out while sleeping.
It seems like the pain originates from the thoracic area of the spine and causes the muscles to tighten all around it making it nearly impossible to sleep in any position.  The ultrasound at the PT office did not seem to help at all.  Thanks for all of your posts, I have definitely gained from reading them.

[stevematto]

My pain is strange. It starts in my mid-back and radiates to my right chest and jaw. No other symptons. I'm worried that its cardiac. It usually happens in the pm when I'm lying down. Not all the time, but with no rhyme or reason. I am a 49 yr. old male who exercises.

[jbastian]

Hello All,
My pain, like many others posted here, comes only after lying down for many hours. Tonight for example, I went to bed around 9:30pm only to rise at 2:30am with severe pain in my mid back on the right side. My symptoms are very similar to others that have been posted.
- Occurs after lying for awhile (4-6 hours)
- Dissipates after rising usually in about 30 minutes to an hour
- Pain localized to the mid or lower right back region
Even though most of the pain seems to occur on the right side I have had pain on the left side as well.

When the pain first started I assumed it was a kidney stone since I suffer from gout and have been told that high uric acid levels can produce kidney stones.  After a urine test (check for blood) and x-rays the doctor confirmed that I didn’t have a kidney stone and was unable to identify any other cause for my pain.  I seriously doubt that the symptoms would be herniated disk, fractured rub, arthritis, kidney disease or other such ailment since the pain dissipates so rapidly upon rising.
For those keeping track of personal statistics, I am a 39 year old white male. (Height: 6’3” weight: 234)  Generally, I would say I am healthy.  Aside from infrequent gout attack in my foot, I don’t seem to have any serious health problems other than being overweight.

Jeepgeorge and all,
You might want to look at this website. (http://www.triggerpointbook.com)
The knots you described in your back sound a lot like a trigger point. They also sell a handy device called the “Thera Cane” which would allow you to massage your own back and let your wonderful wife sleep. It might not feel as good as your wife massaging your back but it will at least win you some brownie points.  I have noticed that using the techniques in the book have helped my back somewhat. However, I am having difficultly locating that exact points in my back to treat.

[mike1105]

STOP!!!!!   no muscle relaxers-- they dont do squat. You were onto something now take it 20 steps further. you stretched for 5 minutes instead of one or two and got relief.. try stretching for 30 minutes. Tight hamstrings cause low back pain. so can tight calves. Tight hip flexors definitley can. It  all has to do with muscle balance. The hammies pull on the pelvis. Hip flexors pull the pelvis down and forward, and the quadratus muscles have to off set this. so, they overwork and strain. Where are the quadratus muscles ?????   look it up-- I bet you this is where it hurts. So the solution is to stretch the hip flexors and the hammies and the calves, and release the knots in your quadratus muscles. I do this by laying on a baseball or a softball right where it hurts like hell, for 3-5 minutes on each side. after a few weeks you may be able to go days without doing this. If you fix your postiure, you may never have to do it again. I say it over and over-- Paul D'Arezzo has the best book on posture.

[mike1105]

[mike1105]

try laying on a baseball or a softball, then stretch that side by raising your same side arm up in the air and leaning the opposite way.

[loulou99]

well, I can tell you with certainty that my pain is still here, although I would have to say it feels different than when I was taking the pill.  I don't feel it very much in the right side, it has moved to the center of my spine and I don't wake up in the middle of the night with a sharp pain now, I can actually get about 6 hrs straight sleep and I just wake up sore as hell.  I'm going to try continuous stretching for a couple of weeks and see if that helps.  If that doesn't , I'm headed to the pain doc.  Good luck all.  

[foundhound]

My pain in the sacrum area radiating into hip,buttock ( also cascading into the lumbar region at times ) areas, has turned out to be referred pain from a trigger point area in my left buttock. I've been self applying trigger point therapy for the last week, and my pain is gone( has been for several days now). This was a nagging pain that had lasted 5+ months, and was particularly bad in the early AM, but could spring up at any point during the day. To be able to sleep again without the worry of being awoken at 2AM with pain is something words cannot express.
Please,please check into trigger point therapy, you can probably pick up a book at your local library. I recommend the book by Claire Davies, but I'm sure there are other good ones out there as well. Checkout http://www.triggerpointbook.com/backpain.htm for more info.

[foundhound]

Yes I thought I was onto something as well with the hamstring streches( I was able to stretch with a straight leg just past 90 degrees for a couple of minutes before concluding it was not the cause). No doubt they can contribute, but the source of my pain, was an inflamed?? muscle ( trigger point for referred pain, see my post above ) in my left butt cheek. This was very deep in the tissue, which I could only find by applying signifigant pressure ( pressing  a hard rubber ball against the skin while leaning against a wall is one way ), which was extremely tender( that's how you know you hit the right spot)  for the first couple of days of me doing it. I believe the muscle involved is called the Piriformis. Give it a try, it might be the source of your pain as well. Good luck!

[foundhound]

I read your comments about triggerpoint, and they are right on. This works,  assuming the problem is myofascial( muscular ) in nature. As you pointed out, the difficulty can be in finding the actual trigger point. The books with digrams can be a big help in getting you into the general area to begin searching. In my case, the triggerpoint was very deep in the surrouding tissues, and took some heavy probing to find. But once you do find it, you know it, as it will be very tender when probed. The theracane is good for the hard to get to spots I would imagine, but I had great results using a lacross ball( better than a tennis ball as it is hard rubber ). What's amazing to me, besides the fact that it does work, is that you can do it yourself.  I did about 12 applications of 12 reps a day, which took about 15 minutes all told.

[mike1105]

FINALLY--- somebody listened to me. It takes a huge amount of committment and belief to get rid of muscle pain. You addressed your single trigger point 144 times per day. too many people try it once or twice and then, thinking they must have something mysteriously wrong, turn to doctors who prescribe drugs (usually that dont work) stick needles in the spine (Maybe some short term relief--it's steroids so what else would you expect) and perhaps refer you to orthopedists or spine specialists who operate on pain and on MRI findings becasue that's how they are trained.
All I can say, is good for you. I had multiple trigger points in my neck muscles/upper traps and even in my low back. Numbness in the arms, pain in my hands--hands falling asleep. took me 4 months of sessions way more involved than yours to notice improvement, and well over a year to feel normal again. No wonder why myofascial pain is considered the scourge of mankind.

[Vindiloo]

Hello Everyone,

I have been reading this forum for the past month as I have similar symptoms for the last 9 months. Severe pain (started suddenly after sleeping) in mid to lower spine and muscles around spine (worse on my left side). I have had back x-ray, chest x-ray, ultra sound and upper thorasic MRI---All clear. This pain wakes me between 2-5am and I have to sit up to get relief. I have been unable to lie on my left side for 9 months or sleep through the night lying down. It is usually relieved after being upright after 1 hour. It is getting worse not better. I just wanted to let everyone know that I tried applying pressure with a tennis ball on what I think are trigger points (very sore areas in muscle) and yes I think this could be the issue but I went too hard, too fast and I was in really bad pain for two days. I think I need a professional to help me figure this out. I am also looking into something called the Graston technique. Has anyone tried this? I am also curious if people find the pain worse at night after exercise (using upper body).

GO SLOW!
W

[mike1105]

graston will remove the knots in muscles but these knots tend to come back if the problem is muscle balance or poor posture. If you are failing in treating yourself i suggest you seek out a posture specialist or a PT with training in posture and muscle balance. To me, this is most likely your problem especially since your tests have come back negative.

Ps-- muscle pain in trigger point areas that are being addressed was common for me-- you are kneading  and stretching already strained, spasming muscles and of course it will hurt and be sore. what i did in this scenario was made sure I did 2-3x per day heat, then light stretching, followed by trigger point work, followed by more aggressive stretching followed by ice where it was the most sore or if there was any swelling.I always stretched the hurting muscles again before bed.  If I was really sore, I still addressed it the next day, just a bit easier. Eventually these muscles eased up and the pain went away. took along time--- months.

You may also want to read up on sleeping positions. The best way to sleep is either flat on your back with some lower back support under the lumbar arch, or on your side with a pillow between your legs (keeps your hips balanced) and your head supported.

[foundhound]

Here's a small summing up of Triggerpoint therapy based on my own experience and from reading on the subject.

*Be sure your problem is myofascial ( google this if necessary ) in nature, and that a more serious cause has been ruled out ( preferrably by a physician ).

*Identify the trigger point using charts from TP books/websites, and by probing ( firmly ) for tender areas in the  most likely regions.

*Use a one way "washing" stroke on the trigger point.

*Be firm in the stroke, but don't kill yourself either. The goal is "good" pain not "bad" pain.

*Use a wall for support if necessary, and a tennis ball,hard rubber ball,theracane,etc. for the actual TP contact.

*Streching the muscle after working it,  while not absolutely necessary, is probably a good idea, but be careful
in how you stretch ( you can do harm if done incorrectly ).

*Don't become discouraged if you get a "bad day", where some pain returns, the important thing is the general trend  of  improvement.

*Don't stop the therapy, until ALL tenderness is gone from the triggerpoint area.

*Sometimes the triggerpoint(s) can migrate ( hasn't been my experience though ), so be on the watch for this if you still exhibit pain after fixing one TP.

*Setup a schedule to get at least 6-12 sets of 6-12 reps per day

*stick with it, it may take a few days or possibly weeks, but you should see some improvement relatively quickly,
  providing your hitting the right area, and are consistent in your effort.



Good luck!!

[mike1105]

BRAVO.. I am not alone.

[loulou99]

I ordered that book thru amazon - they had it on sale....and it looks very interesting.  I'm going to try this and see how it works.  It might even help my husband - so I need a tennis ball or a lacross ball and this is a stupid question, but does your average sporting goods store carry lacross balls?  I guess I need to go shopping.....I'll let you know how it works.  The stretching alone did not help and actual excercise makes it worse by inflamation (inflammation).  I will tell you that as I was taking a glance at the book I saw where they show you how to massage that neck muscle for TMJ and my jaw actually felt more relaxed immediately.  Things that make you go hmmmm..........

[mike1105]

this stuff is going to take time-- you have to get your muscles to be retrained. :Like i said it take dedicated effort--2-3 45 minute sessions per day of trigger point relaase/exercise/stretching for months possibly. You can get a lacrosse ball at a sporting goods store. softballs are good too especeially for the lower back where it curves inwards.
Yes- if you stretch without first releasing tight muscles and trigger points, you will damage the muscle and this causes inflammation.

[Tripp 1957]

Glad that I am not alone.  I thought I had some strange problem that no one else had.  Same symptoms for about 2 or 3 years.  Gone to 3 or 4 Chiro's.  No help.  Went to Ortho Specialist and he gave me X-rays, and a Bone Scan.  Bone Scan came back negative.  He stated that it is most likely arthritis.  He prescribed Mobic (anti-inflammatory).  I believe Mobic helped some, but did not solve problem – just lessened the pain or allowed me to get another hour of sleep.  Some nights are worse than others –which I have to sleep in a recliner or just get up.  I am 30 years old – 6’2” – 200#.  Pain is on the right side in the middle back.  Very deep dull pain.  Sometimes strong enough to make breathing difficult.  After about a year of this pain, another pain developed that sometimes hurts and sometimes it is mild.  Feels like it is in my kidneys (the lower right side of my back).  I have had blood work done – it was negative on the kidneys.  

Unfortunately, I have accustomed my body and mind to “get by” on 4-6 hours of sleep.  I still lay there for another hour or so until it hurts bad enough to force me to get up.   Have a sit down job, but still active (lift 2 or 3 days a week and run at least once a week).  The only positive about this curse is that over the last month or so, I have decided to just get up and go run or workout when it wakes me up.  I use to do all my exercising after work – which usually meant some other activity came up and I missed my slot to exercise.    

I am going to try Mike 1105’s suggestions.  I let you all know if anything helps.  I am determined NOT to live like this for the rest of my life, so I’ll be patient and work towards a solution.  I do not want to take pills (for a prolonged period) or have surgery.  Honestly – this forum has me excited.  At least I am not alone.  

[mike1105]

when you go to the gym-- DO NOT WORK ON YOUR CHEST MUSCLES-- STRETCH THE CHEST MUSCLES INSTEAD..(DOORWAY STRETCHES) NO PUSH UPS OR BENCH PRESSES OR PEC EXERCISES..... INSTEAD, SO EXERCISES THAT PINCH YOUR SHOULDER BLADES TOGETHER-- WORK ON STANDING UP STRAIGHT-- GET YOUR HEAD OVER YOUR SPINE AND NOT IN FRONT OF IT-- DO CHIN TUCKS (WHICH MOVE YOUR HEAD BACK)  ALL THIS STUFF WILL EASE THE WORKLOAD ON YOUR WEAK MID BACK MUSCLES. PLUS THE EXERCISES WILL STRENGTHEN THE MID BACK

[loulou99]

I'm pretty sure Mike is my hero.....I started with the rubber ball against the wall and have been doing this 2 to 3 times a day - I'm pretty sore, but like a bruise sore, like I'm slowly working it out.  Hurts at first, but seems to be well worth it.  I've had much better sleep.  Will keep at it.  It was amazing to me the first time I did this that I immediately found the trigger point and was able to get results within 2 nights.  Thanks so much Mike!!  That book might have saved my life!!!  

[mike1105]

keep at it-----------

[smiler125]

Not sure if this will help anyone, but  find that if I sleep on my front with no pillow and my feet just hanging off the bed that I have no mid back pain in the morning. If anyone finds this helpful then let us all know.

[mvgreene]

So glad I stumbled across this forum. My stats... white male, 37, 210lbs. 5'11" 26% body fat. I live in Los Angeles.

Started for me about a month ago. 3-4 am, wake up with mid back pain, that wraps around to my sternum. Feels like I've been hit with a sledgehammer and it's hard to breathe. Only relief is to stand up, 15-20 minutes later, pain subsides. I usually crash on the couch and get a couple more hours of sleep in a 45 degree modified sleeping position. I can only sleep when I stack 3 pillows and a 4th at an angle to give me an almost upright sleeping position. I end up not having the pain most nights, or if I do, it is very minor and I just prop myself up more and the pain goes away. CANNOT sleep laying down, except, ironically, during the day (but usually it's just a nap for a couple hours).

I tried a Thai massage (full strength - very painful) and it relieved a lot of tightness in my back during the day. The massage therapist said my middle back was very tight. Didn't do anything for my sleep though.

The only meds I'm on are Androgel (Testosterone therapy - for low testosterone).

I can't recall doing anything that triggered it. I've had lower back pain since the 90s (where I carry stress) and pressure therapy and/or acupuncture cures that for months.

WOMBMATE - any more info about 'adrenal fatigue'?

Thanks to everyone for your postings. Just knowing others are suffering from this helps and I hope we can definitively come up with a solution.

MVGREENE

[wombmate]

I have been taking licorice plus (pill form) it is used for adrenal support and to help my cortisol levels. My levels did drop to much around noon time, then went up again around 4pm. They were within normal limits upon waking, I thought they might to be high or to low. I just started taking these Aug 7 so I need to give it some time. I wish I knew for sure that this was what my pain was from, I can say I have not felt as bad as I have in the past. It's all be trial and error for me and all so very frustrating. I'll keep you posted if I feel alot of change. It is supposed to help my energy levels also.

Wombmate

[Tripp 1957]

[Tripp 1957]

Thanks for the heads up.  I have tried to use better posture and I'll work Chin Tucks into my routine.  Good advise on the chest as I don't stretch it enough.  Just got the Trigger Points book, and have started reading.  I do several back excercises - Lat Pull down, Rows, Dead Lift, Shrug, etc.  I'll add a few more row excersises of different movements to pinch the shoulder blades.    

The pain has been much weaker the last couple of weeks.  I think this can be attributable to stretching several times a day, and really stretching the hamstrings and gluteus.  I forgot to mention that the Ortho specialist told me to take Glucosamine and Chondroitin Sulfate (which he stated that Glucosamine is the important ingredient).  I am not positive, but I think it is helping.  Check back soon.  

[mike1105]

tripp-- good job. just stop working so hard on those "mirror muscles".. In actuality you are creating a muscle imbalace. there is a great articel in this months (or last months??) men's health magazine about Mr. Pilates.. read it-- look at the picture of him exercising. he is working on his extension muscles !!! (not his flexors). the door stretch is great for the chest. shrugs actually work your upper trap--no good. you've got to get your shoulders back and down, not up and forward.

[FunZ]

I AM NOT ALONE!! Thank goodness.

I am a 54 y.o. female, very overweight and, alas, inactive. I had a history of slashing, "electric" numbing lower back pain from age 25-49, which mercifully left me once menopause arrived.

However, now, five years later, I am hardly able to lie down to go to sleep. If Ilie down the "wrong way",, I am in agonyy. If I turn even the slightest way incorrectly in bed, I get slashing, deep crushing spasms from the mid-line thoracic back and around the front along the ribs. I have to catch my breath. Finding a comfy position is almost impossible because, well, MOVING is impossible! If I finally am able to get onto my side (millimeter-by-millimeter) I can possibly find a comfy spot and get some sleep. If lucky, I might wake up more relaxed and pain-free, but as soon as I try to change positions again, I risk the spasms.  Once I get up, I hobble around trying to brace myself for the worst pain (not good for muscles!)  and trying to avoid a collapse to the floor should the pain occur while walking. Once I sit in a chair for awhile (usually having breakfast, so I can take my advil) and walk around for about an hour, the pain goes away completely and does not come back again until I lie down.  

I also get the same pain if the muscles are tense while riding in a bumpy terrain or in a jarring situation, like a poorly landed irplane or jitney or bus ride. This tells me that there is something going on with the discs in mid-T area, butthat does not explain pain lying down only otherwise.

Any insights?

Thanks

[FunZ]

Have you been worked up for Mitral valve prolapse? I have it and it presented itself with pain the back that radiated to jaw and down left arm - like a heart attack. But after a stress test and echocardiogram, it was obvious that it was MVP. It is congentital and although the symptoms make you feel awful and sometimes dizzy or spacey, it will not kill you!

[annubisqueen]

I have very similar pain to everyone in here.  It started in August 05 and has only gotten worse.  I have had xrays, mris, been to PT, DC, massotherapy, seen a pain specialist who stuck very big scary needles right into my back, and seen a neurologist who completely blew me off.  Hmm..pain meds, anti-inflamms, and valium have all been on my schedule along with daily excerise.  Guess what?  Nothing worked and no one has clue as to what's wrong with me.

I have pain all day long but more at night after lying down for a couple of hours.  The pain gets so bad at night that I wake up screaming someimes.  It is now to the point where sometimes even piled up pillows do not work and my husband gets up and sits behind me to hold me up further so I can go back to sleep.  I also tend to wake up with both hands asleep and pain in my right arm.  In the beginning I tried everything, I changed my pillows, my matress, my bed frame, the way I sit down, the way I stood up, the food I ate....I mean everything and here I am to this day still in pain.  I actually think my body has gotten used to only getting between 4-6 hours of sleep.

So what is the next step?  If anyone knows please help me out...oh my only bad health habits would be that I am a little over weight and smoke.  Everything else is peachy-keen.

[Kim1959]

Greetings, Everyone!
Quickly: I'm 48 and have mid-thoracic, right sided pain that is so severe I had to quit my job. It's been a month now, 2 rx's of robaxin and I'm in AGONY still. Breathing hurts, the back of my rib cage hurts....I had an x-ray and it showed osteoarthritis. The doc thinks it's disk-related.
HELP! No health insurance for another month, and he mentioned it being a "pre-existing" condition anyway.
Please help me out...what is the best thing to do for mid-thoracic hell? My breathing seems to be bad, too.
Thank you for listening,
Kim, NH

[Ihateloginnames]

Me too, me too. I'm 27 and up right now because of this pain when I should be asleep next to my boyfriend. Middle back pain wrapping around my rib cage and difficulty breathing which I only have after having slept for 6 hours or so. The pain is difficult and I am so stiff that I literally have to roll off the bed into a sitting position on the floor because just getting up seems impossible when I'm lying there just trying to breath. I'm not in as good a shape as I'd like but I'm fairly active and it wouldn't be a big deal to go on a 10 mile bike ride today if I felt like it. I've been up reading this forum for about 30 minutes now and the pain is almost gone. The only other health issues I have are migraines and some feet stuff because I work in restaurants where I'm on my feet all day.

For years I've had the occasional night like this and I noticed that it seemed to occur whenever my immune system was low, like if I knew I was fighting off a cold or I was about to get sick. But for the last 2 months or so, it's been every night and as you all know it gets old fast. Based on all of the tests everyone seems to have gotten with no answers, I'd say triggerpoint therapy along with some further research into the immune system issue are where I'm headed.

Anyone know if theirs may be related to problems or stress on their immune systems?

K

[tbpompano]

I have had the same back symptoms, and I also take the cholesterol pill (lovastatin).  Have you learned anything about a connection between this drug and the back pain?

[cmb123]

I have been experiencing bacvk pain now for 9 months.  I have had the CT, CT w/Contrast and an MRI all which show nothing wrong.  The pain will actually reach around and follow the rib cage on either side of chest. I have even been to the hospital three times because I thought it was a heart attack.  I am a 35yo. male.  I have had a cardiac work up twice and that was negative.  I have been presribed harder and harder meds to just get through the day.  started with NSAIDS and now upto morphine.  Is this normal?  Has anyone else had problems like this?
The pain is everyday, and it's constant.

Thanks for any info or actual names of conditions would be appreciated,
CB

[loulou99]

I completely feel for you all, but I have to tell you, to just try and listen to what Mike1105 has said on this thread.  I too have the trigger point therapy book and I went out and bought that little rubber ball (actually it's a small rubber dog ball that I picked up at the grocery store) and every morning and every night for at least 2 wks I used this on my mid back against a wall.  It hurt like hell for about a week - hurt so bad that my back felt bruised.  Then all of a sudden it got better.  I still am having a minor amount of pain, but it's not keeping me up at night and it seems to be getting better all the time.  I had all the symptoms all of you are having.  Personally, I think it's just that our muscles in our midsection are weak and the older we get, along with bad posture, eventually will just aggravate things.  You have to get those muscles in your mid back relaxed and the only way to do this unless you have someone to keep rubbing your back all the time is that wonderful rubber ball.  Go out today and get one.  Trust me.  Get the book.  It really works.

good luck everyone

[Jamer2007]

Hey Mike or anyone else out there. I don't have a pain in my back, instead it is in my chest. I sometimes encounter a pop which sounds like it is coming from my sternum. I was wondering if anyone used trigger point therapy to fix a chest issue?

-James

[jakers2112us]

I am 6'0" 230 lbs.  My sternum cracks as well.  I thought it was something unique to me.  My pain came on fairly quickly.  The morning after I woke up, I was in terrible pain from my mid back.  I have an extremely soft, comfy sofa and sleeping on it with quite a few pillows behind me allows me to sleep through the whole night.  Granted, I'm not pain free when I wake up, but at least the pain is tolerable enough for me to get through the night.  I am overweight, though not obese, and have admittedly terrible posture.  I have no health insurance, so I've been dealing with the pain for over a year, but it seems as though a doctor really will not be able to do a whole lot anyway.  I haven't gotten any of the books, but when I actually start to make a few extra dollars, I'll be buying one.  I have tried a tennis ball in the area, and it has helped, but it hasn't made the problem go away.  I am 26 and just really want to feel normal again.  Discovering this page has been a huge comfort for me.  Thank you all for your helpfull comments.

[Jamer2007]

Well jakers welcome to the club of sternum crackers. I have had this contusion on and off for a year now. Now it appears to have come to the forefront of my health. For me it happened after doing dips at the gym. Do a search on chest pops or sternum pops or cartilage pops and you will see we are not alone. I know my posture isn't perfect and I used to sleep on my side and stomach and can no longer do that for extended periods.  How long have you been using the tennis ball? Have you also tried stretching? My pain has subsided greatly but not gone away...As long as I do not lean over or stretch or make a sudden jerking motion. Sometimes even a violent sneeze will cause a contusion.
I am actually going to the doctors tomorrow for an x-ray. I just want to make sure that I did not fracture a rib or something more serious. I have read that soft tissue massage is supposed to help.

[rozie33]

I THINK I HAVE BEATEN IT!!
Like many others on this forum, I have suffered the same inexplicable midbackpain at night, sleeping no more than 3 1/2 h/night, waking up in severe pain, no position comfortable. I have now for three days followed a regime and slept for the last two nights 7 h in a stretch, woken up by alarm clock and not by pain!! (I'm so happy!) This is what I did: (From Dr. Bookspanns home page), back-strengthening exercises and stretching recommended+posture, posture, posture, two different ways of hamstring-streching, absolutely no bending over at all (not even when stretching), use legs bending only, one yoga-backstretch, all these twice a day. And I've been drinking a lot of water. Lucky fluke? I don't know, but so far so good...
Good luck everyone!

[orchestrax]

To all, thanks for the information.  Ive discovered the forum researching mid back/chest pain upon waking.  could be the mattress.  could be work (im an orchestra conductor).  Could be from previous injuries (had ruptured disc in lower lumbar).  I also wonder if its possibly related to smoking.  perhaps the stretching and yoga is the trick.   But heres my question.  I recently took antiobiotics for an infection (Zithromax) which not only caused my white blood cells to raise, but also caused pain throughout my body.  Now its localized in center of chest and back only upon waking.  I still feel it during the day, but the pain subsides once Im standing.  The infection might still be present in the body, and Im curious for those who took blood tests if there was a relationship between post infection reactions and these kind of pains upon waking.  I thought perhaps not, as it only seems to happen while I sleep.  Any suggestions?

[dizzzzle]

I have beaten it. I remember sitting up late at night and googling "back pain" and reading stories. That is how i found this site and was amazed that people had the same problem as me. However, I was even more amazed that nobody had found a cure. I went to a chiropractor and doctor and they were no help. From most of the comments on this site, doctors don't seem to help. So I tried googled John Sarno and read a bit about him and then bought his book "Healing Back Pain"... It worked!!.

I promised myself while I was in pain that if I find a cure, I'll share it on this site. So, try it out

[TysonMunro]

Hi Everyone. My names Tyson Munro and im a Remedial Massage therapist (i also have a background in personal training) from perth Australia.  I had a client who was reporting the same pain and the same problems that many of you have been complaining about.  I found this site while boring trying to figure out her pain as the treatments i was performing were not having any effect on her.
After looking at what she did for a career (kindergarden teacher) and her posture i focused a treatment aimed and tackling her ribecage and breathing muscles.  After only 2 treatments she reported complete pain loss and no longer woke up in the middle of the night. The muscles i treated were as follows and i used Myofacial release on ALL of them.
Serretus Anterior, Scalenes (all 3), Diaphragm, Rectus Abdominus, Obliques (all), Erector spinae (with focus on Thoracic erectors), Quandratas Lumborum and most importantly, myofacial release of the intracostal muscles both anterior and posterior.
By causing this release it allowed her ribcage to move more freely and breath alot more easily without placing strain on her muscles. My theory for y this pain was being caused for her was because of her sitting in the kindergarden chair left her in a hunched over position and was causing significant stress to her erector mucles and so her entire core had to lock out to be able to hold this terrible posture.  This would also be the case with many people on this forum lifting heavy loads.  They may only be doing part of the technique incorrectly but that is all it could take to cause an immense overload of these muscles and the pain that is plagueing them.
I do hope that this has been a help or at least helped others on this.  If anyone has any questions about the treatment i used feel free to email me on ***@****.

[mvgreene]

I have a way to sleep through the night. I hurt my ankle less than a month ago - tendinitis. I elevate it at night. I found that by elevating my ankles, I didn't have to elevate my upper body so much (which was like sleeping in a chair). This makes for a much better sleep and I sleep through the night, with no pain in the morning.

I am going to follow the regiment of exercises recommended by another poster on drbookspan DOT com FORWARD SLASH BackPainArticle DOT html

This seems simple enough. My posture is great when standing and walking, but now that I have paid attention, my seating posture is very bad (I slump). I'll report back.

[kfederma]

I'm a healthy, 38-year-old, male who had the same symptoms being described for over a year.  I stay very active and exercise regularly, but I also work at a computer 10-12 hours a day and admittedly have poor sitting posture.  I was thinking about getting a new mattress but after reading some of the entries, I instead changed 2 other things – I did exercises to strengthen my middle back muscles and I consciously focused on improving my sitting posture at work.

After less than a week the aching that would wake me up every night went COMPLETELY AWAY and I’m finally getting some good sleep!

The only exercises that I started doing are 2 sets of incline dumbbell rows (face down on an incline bench) and 2 sets of reverse incline dumbbell flies.   I perform all the sets with weights that allow me to perform 20-30 reps and I do them once a day, every day.  Both of these exercises “squeeze” the shoulder blades together and work the middle back.  I don’t know what causes the dull ache, but my hunch is overstretched back muscles that then cannot provide the support they should.

Regarding sitting posture…I moved my computer keyboard to the front of my desk and I make sure my chair is pulled in close to the desk so I can sit completely upright and don’t hunch over.  I also am trying to keep my shoulders pulled back.  It’s a bit of a hassle to get used to, but I’m really glad I’m not waking up at 3AM anymore.

I hope this helps!

[Mimi Kuo]

I am Mellissa Kuo from the Philippines.  I have been having these back/neck pain for more than a year now, like many of you, although I have only started daily working on a computer as a medical transcriptionist for 5 months.  What I cannot understand is why I only have these back aches upon waking up in the morning, after supposedly "resting".  My bed mattress is firm n of good quality, i only sleep with one pillow. Could it be gouty arthritis? Uric acid does accumulate on the spine too, right? not just on the finger n toe joints? Coz the pain is gone within an hour of being up and about as I fix breakfast. The rest of the day, no pain.  STill, I will look for that trigger point therapy book and see if it helps me too. thanks!

[Mimi Kuo]

This is Mimi Kuo, i forgot to mention about my back pain, that it really hurts too when i sneeze or cough.  somewhere deep in the back, whether muscular or bone level i dont know.  But it is a sharp excruciating pain, so i try to stop a sneeze or control my cough coz it really hurts to do so.  i was just wondering if anyone out there has a similar experience too.

[Madcap]

I just wanted to suggest to anyone with this problem that they consider the possibility of gall stones.  For many months, I've been waking up around 4 AM with terrible pain in the middle of my back.  It's been kind of hard to determine where it's coming from, but it does feel like it's more on my right side.  And for a few months prior to that, I've been having random stomach pains, just below my ribs on my right side.  This would mainly happen if I ate something particularly greasy.  I didn't have indigestion, I had an aching pain there that sometimes lasted all day.  Anyway, they doctors blamed the stomach problem on heartburn and the back problem on posture.  I didn't like either of these answers so I started reading more on the Internet and thought that gallstones sounded like a possibility.  I asked my doctor to send me for an ultrasound and sure enough, I've got stones.  I'll have my gall bladder out in a few weeks and hopefully this will have been the cause of my problems.  FYI I am a 31 year old male, not overweight, eat pretty healthy, don't smoke, drink just in moderation, so I am a pretty healthy guy.  Hope this helps somebody...

[nevermindu]

I got on this site really late tonight and scrolled through but did not read all.I also was waking up after 5 to 6 hours of sleep with upper back pain.I would have to get up for a couple hours and go back to bed or sit up on the couch.I already was seeing a chiropractor for migraines but decided I'd try accupuncture.After the 3rd treatment I no longer woke up with the pain.I go once every two weeks and can sometimes stretch it to once every 3 weeks.He uses 8 needles on my upper back and 8 needles on my lower back.I lay for an hour with them hooked to something that looks like battery chargers and that sends electric like pulses through the needles.This has helped my migraines also.Just another suggestion from a fellow "sufferer".

[lynneinfla]

Wow! I am amazed at how many fellow sufferers there are. My back pain started last December.  I had flown to Hong Kong (a 20 hour flight) and then slept in a very hard bed. I started waking up with severe upper back pain that wrapped around to the center of my chest (the sternum). I would have to get up, sit for a while, take Tylenol or Alleve, and then just wait it out.  When I got home, my chiropractor said that it was the result of sitting on a long plane trip. But it hasn't gotten better. My MD says that it is probably arthritis, but I can't believe that. I use a CPAP machine for sleep apnea and I sleep very soundly on my back without moving for most of the night. I think that is what causes the problem (probably triggered by the plane trip). But I don't wake up to try to turn over until the pain is so bad that it wakes me. Needless to say, the benefits of sleeping well with the CPAP are lost through the poor sleep I get because of the pain.  I started taking CoQ10 and Magnesium which helped a little. I am 65 years old and female.  I hope I can find something that helps.

[seagull3]

i have 6mm right neural foraminal cyst t6-7 and disc disase and more i live s.c. i am in pain manget icant medcaid   seator lindsey graham/i ask four emergncy hearing disability/iwent to governor mark sanford s.c.803 896 4470/congesman mac tooles/ihave/3doctor saying i can not work. still i can can not get help  i am in pain day night /i have no isurer/ion went 7 grade  ipray to god that they will get the gob done .vickie wheeler s.c.803 755 2387 our goveror s.c lindey grahm got ajob big money.for me eviction notice     we pay tax but when will they help    iwill try my best  god willing          

[seagull3]

could some tell me what   neural foraminal  means

[Perry57]

Got the same as  all of you, but reading some of the posts not as bad as some. I get about 6 to7 hours of sleep during the week, but come weekend thats when the fun starts. try to stay in bed but after a while i just have to get out. I can hardly breath most of the time. It takes about 2 hours to settle down. Have been doing lots of stretches and have bought a inversion table because of a bad back, been to see a chiropractor and still go there once a fortnight doing this  has helped a hell of alot. back feels alot looser and not as painful, have been on ms contin for about 3 years and hope to stop taking them very soon, but still have painful legs.

[AndyV]

I have had the misery of the back pain that wakes me up after 5-6 hours and will not allow me to go back to sleep for at least 2-3 years. This pain would go away in the morning after about an hour and a hot shower. I have tried sleeping in various positions, sleeping with pillows under my knees or between my legs, sleeping with my head propped up in a sitting position, pain pills, stretches, doctors, and chiropractors. All have had little to no effect on this problem.

Then about five weeks ago I tried sleeping on my back with a small throw pillow directly under my butt. The pillow is fairly firm and compresses to about 2 or so inches above the mattress height. Since the first night I did this and every night since, I have slept 8-10 hours as I once used to and wake up completely rested and with absolutely no back pain.

I really dont know if this well positioned pillow is compensating for a problem with my mattress, my posture, or a combination of the two, but I have found that my quality of life has improved immensely since I tried it and I wanted to share this fix that worked for me in hopes that it may help some of you who suffer with this issue also.

[Vindiloo]

Hi Everyone,

I have had the same pain problems that you are having. I have been going to a posture specialist using something called Mitzvah technique. (similar to Alexander technique). My therapist has given me simple exercises that are beginning to help my situation. She is convinced that whatever one is doing during the day is what is causing chronic spinal and muscular issues during sleep. So I would encourage you to find help with your posture. Learn how to change your posture permanently using very gentle techniques. NO MORE SITTING  for long hours at the computer! My therapist says pain is a good thing because it is our body telling us we need to change before it is too late. My therapist encourages me to get up and move around (doing simple exercises) until pain subsides enough to go back to sleep. She is really against sleeping in a sitting up position as this creates another set of problems. It can be a vicious cyle. I am slowly getting better. I can now tolerate around 7 hours lying down where as I used to only get 4-5 hours of lying down for over the past year. Good luck

[Calleigh]

Is the book called "Posture Alignment: The Missing Link in Health and Fitness" .

[powers17]

[powers17]

WOW I FEEL LIKE EVERY LOG ON THIS PAGE I HAVE WRITTEN. YEP, MID BACK PAIN AFTER SLEEPING FOR 2-4 HOURS SOMETIMES TO THE POINT WHERE I CAN HARDLY MOVE IT HAS BEEN 2 YEARS.I HAVE TRIED EVRY DRUG AND DR. OUT THERE . MY HUSBAND WANTS ME TO GOTO MAYO CLINIC. NOW IT HAS GONE TO MY FRONT LET MUSCLE IN MY CHEST UNLESS I INJURED THAT A DIFFERENT WAY WHO KNOWS!!  GLAD TO FIND THIS WEB PAGE HELPS ME THINK I'M NOT CRAZY CAUSE I FEEL SOME DOCTORS THINK I AM. WHATS WEIRD IS THAT MOST PEOPLE HAVE BACK PAIN FROM MOVEING TO MUCH. MINE (OURS) IS FROM RESTING. WHO WOULD THINK THAT BEING UP MOVING AROUND WOULD BE BETTER THAN RESTING??? I HATE NIGHTS I HATE GOING TO BED!!! I WOULD DO ANYTHING FOR A GOOD NIGHTS SLEEP!! ANYONE HAVE A SUGGESTION? THE LAST MEDS I WAS GIVEN, WAS 2 VICODIN 4 TIMES A DAY. GREAT HUH! COME ON MY BODY CAN'T TAKE THAT MY NEXT PROBLEM WILL BE MY LIVER AND KIDNEYS!!!  I REALLY THOUGHT THAT IT WAS A MIS PRINT ON MY BOTTLE! I AM ONLY 33 YEARS OLD. I JUST WONDER WHAT THIS WILL BE LIKE IN 5 MORE YEARS. ONCE I HAD 6 YES 6 CORTIZONE SHOTS IN MY BACK A ONE TIME. NOPE THAT DID'NT HELP ONE BIT ALL IT DID WAS MAKE IT ACHE ALL DAY. I EVEN HAD MY GALL BLADDER OUT CAUSE THEY THOUGHT THAT WOULD HELP. I NEVER THOUGHT I COULD BE SO EXCITED ABOUT HAVING AN ORGAN REMOVED!!! NOPE THAT JUST GAVE ME A FEW SCARS ON MY BELLY. ANYWAY,JUST WONDING IF ANYONE HAD ANY IDEAS???? THANKS

[jusbiz]

I found this site a couple weeks ago when I experienced the pain.  I saw Mike's comments and they made sense.  I used a tennis ball and rolled it between my spine and my shoulder blade.  I could feel the tender muscles there.  I setup an appointment with a Deep Tissue Massage Therapist who worked on my back for an hour.  There were definitely some spots that she hit that caused me to flinch (with pain).  Afterwards however, my back felt "relaxed".  That night I got my first full nights sleep in a week.  I haven't been woken up since with the pain.  

I recon now that the sitting up effect (relief) is much like standing on a your leg when you have a cramp in your calf.  It was the only thing that made the pain subside.  

It has been a week since my massage and haven't had a restless night since.  I am reading the posture and trigger points book.  Both of them address other body issues I have like tightness in the hip muscle.  The Trigger point book describes exactly the pain that everyone has described here.  I am pretty darn sure it is just a deep muscle spasm (not a twitch but a contracted muscle that is seized up).  

Best of health to you all.

[ChazMalibu]

30, 198lbs, 5'9, 9% body fat, male, bodybuilder...

Same thing for 6+ months: mid-back nightly back spasms, no pain during the day, drugs did no good, sleep was hell, no position helped, tried chiro, massage therapist, soma, iburophen, hot tub...nothing helped.

After 6 months of nightly agony, I found trigger point therapy on this forum.  I bought the book and used a golf ball in a long sock and found 12 "trigger-points" in my mid-back, and throughout.  The pain immediatly began to ease and after a month Im sleeping like a baby.  Thank God for you people and this site!

[Tom_T]

Same problem!   I'm find during the day... but every night, around 4am, I get some sort of pain in the same spot in the center of my upper back.  Some nights I can make it through to 7am and deal with the pain, other nights, I have to get up at 4am.. and try to sleep in a chair.  I'm usually stiff for about an hour, but I have no problems afterwards..

Some history, that may help.   I originally developed this problem on my honeymoon 7 years ago..  the mattress was terrible!  But I only experiences the intollerable pain that one night, and it gradually went away over the next couple nights.

The second time was about a year later.  I was at a beach hotel, and the mattress was terrible!!!
It took me a couple weeks on my own bed before it subsided.

Shortly after this, I got into competative cycling and lost a lot of weight. I've heavy boned.. at 190, people thought I was 160...   before I lost weight, I was 230.  I did not have the problem again until this august(that's 6 years later). With 2 kids, I don't have the time to cycle, and I love to cook, so I'm back in the 225lb area....  and ironically, it came back at a beach hotel next to the same one that gave me the pain back in 2001.   I didn't get much sleep, and it's stuck with me at home for the last 3 months.

Some nights it's better than others, but for me, It seems that my weight and the mattress factor into it.. but I'm sure it's another underlying problem that these things just bring out.  I've also noticed that some 'sides' of the mattress make the pain start a little later, or keep it down enough that I can manage to sleep through it.  On a bad side, I'm up at 4am every night, and when the dog joins us in bed, it's usually worse.  I've never seen a doctor because I blamed it on the mattress and my weight, and from what I'm reading, it won't do much good.  



Some nights it's worse than others, when it's bad, I'm very stiff in the upper back for about an hour, but after that, I can do anything, lift, paint, cycle, run, etc.

[jay188]

So, after reading this 1-year old forum with numerous posts... Can people post again with what actually DID work for them. The only worthwhile solutions I've read so far are the following:

Dr. Bookspan's Website
- Strengthening Your Back
- Stretches for your back
- Good posture

Mike Sarno's Book
- Healing Back Pain

Mike1105's Ball Technique
- Lay on a hard ball (baseball, etc), raise your arm, and stretch toward  
   opposite side. Hold for a few secs. Repeat 12 times.

So which one of these worked for you? Like many of you, I am not in the mood to read a whole book to fix this problem. I just want to fix it asap. I'm going to start with Mike1105's technique, and read Bookspan's website.. Hope those will do the trick.

[aknbak]

I have had problems with my back hurting and waking me up in the wee hours for about 1 1/2 to 2 yrs. after getting a new mattress and not seeing any better results and being very frustrated on the money we spent i went to my primary care physician- he ran some blood work and ordered x-rays. i also had a bone scan about 6 months ago. bone scan was fine. x-ray fine.
blood work came back positive for HLA-B27 - ankylosing spondylitis
also an elevated sed rate.
I am going to a rhuematologist tomorrow but couldn't wait to tell some of you to ask your doctor to run the HLA-B27 so many of you sound like you could have the type of arthritis-ankylosing spondylitis.
I will try and post next week.

[ljhhkjhjhjh]

Same issue-In morning, from lying down, no position helps, mid back center pain and radiating to shoulders/ ribs/ and upper back some. Pain subsides after getting up. I have tried just about everything and have found a small amount of relief with back patches and trying my best to keep moving up until bedtime, and flexiral.  

Im am not a DR. and don't profess to understand this problem but I am a bit of a scientist and am hoping to narrow it down for myself and hopefully some other people who are suffering from this. This is long winded but I am trying to be analytical and I hope it helps focus are research and allows us to get some professional feedback.

I believe that most of our problems may be caused or exacerbated from posture and weak mid-back/back muscles- But why so much pain after sleeping/laying down and why would it subside so much after being upright again? Wouldn't tired or weak, or overcompensating muscles hurt more when they are being used during that day or at least at the end of the day? Why so much pain only in the morning. This seems like the resounding issue for most people writing in this post.

For me it seems that the real issue is pain/pressure from lying down flat- this position puts the most pressure on the rib cage- all those lining muscles/ soft tissue muscles that support the ribs and back are reacting to this pressure and causing nerve and muscle pain that mostly radiates into the sensitive spine but also into the rib ends- Is the pressure from an external source aka the bed pushing on the body or is it internal organs pushing from the other side? Either scenario relates to lying down.

People have mentioned the liver/gall bladder/ kidneys/ spleen/ hear/ adrenal glands- all of these organs have been known to cause back pain and if inflamed/infected would probably produce pressure on the spine and ribs when lying down and would probably increase agitation as the night goes on. This would also be true of muscular and joint pain caused by external pressure from the bed. Besides these options- arthritis seems to be a likely candidate because it is know to inflame more when the body is at rest. The Bottom line is that are pain is caused by lying down. If we are to find personal answers to this issue we can at least start with that. I have heard some thoughts on sleep pattern issues like breathing and Tmj which may be the problem for some people but its seems that most of us would experience this pain lying flat after a few hours or even minutes weather we sleep or not. So we are back to this being a lying down problem.

So most of us have severe mid-back pain caused by lying down more or less flat in any position for more then a couple of hours. If we to rule out arthritis (including ankylosing, reiters, and other degenerative joint disorders),disc problems and vertebrae problems, and cracked ribs- then we are down to pain in mid-back muscles and nerve endings in and around the rib cage and thoracic spine caused by lying down from either problems in the muscles themselves or from problems in the neighboring organs. So for many of us it might come down to 2 things-

1) Internal Organs-it seems one can test for organ functions and if those are fine then its down to the muscles-

2) Muscular-So these are the questions that I have for this particular problem. Some of these questions have been answered by these posts in some way or another but I just thought I would sum them up. What muscles would be most affected by the displacement and pressure from the rib cage from lying down and would cause mid-back pain by morning?
What specific exercises help strengthen these muscles or there support muscles to keep them from being so agitated by lying down?
Are there also exercises the would develop the muscles that help stabilize the rib cage?
Is there any way to relax the soft tissue muscles in the rib linings?
Is there muscle chemistry issue that seem to stand out for people who are having pain that doesn't occur until they have been lying down/sleeping/resting and can specific diet or medicine help with these issues?  

My hope is that these specific question might help us get better answers by specialist as well as specific answers from some of the physical therapist that have already been helping us, and finally the suffers who have found some solutions to there own problems. Thanks

[vidalsasoon]

Thanks!

I've been looking at this forum for a few months but it seemed like there was no definite answer to my back problem.

Well a couple days ago my right eye turns red and was sensitive to light... All signs were pointing to Iritis which is a symptom of "Ankylosing spondylitis".

The Iritis combined with my back problem seemed like a hell of a coincidence... I'm pretty sure this is my problem and i'm going to ask my doctor to look into it. Apparently "Ed Sullivan" suffered from this...!!!! :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankylosing_spondylitis
http://www.basdai.com/

Male, 30, pretty fit.

[jay188]

OK.. It seems everyone on here has just listed their problems, tried some things, and never really reported back as far as WHAT WORKED. Well, since I did get some things/suggestions from this site that did help me, I'm going to return the favor and give everyone the ultimate solutions that did work for me.

As far as what's on this forum:

1. Dr. Bookspan's Website (DO EVERYTHING LISTED ON THIS SITE)
[  http://www.drbookspan.com/BackPainArticle.html  ]
- Strengthening Your BackBack pain - low Back strain treatment
- Stretches for your backBack pain - low Back strain treatment
- Good posture

2. Mike1105's Ball Technique (MIGHT WORK, MIGHT NOT; DID NOT FOR ME)
- Lay on a hard ball (baseball, etc), raise your arm, and stretch toward  
   opposite side. Hold for a few secs. Repeat 12 times.

Now on to what other things worked for me:

1. YES, A PHYSICAL THERAPIST WILL HELP
- Everyone says I went to a phy therapist, and didn't work. Well how do they know it didn't work. They went and then tried other things, and more things, and the pain stopped. How do they know the physical therapist didn't do something that did help.
- Go to the physical therapist. Tell him/her your problem. Then tell him/her you would like them to do TRIGGER POINT therapy on your back. Basically, apply EXTREME pressure (maybe with elbows) to the exact spot where it hurts like a u know what when you wake up.
- Ask him/her to give you excercises to do. I was given a set of 5 diff excercises, including hamstring stretches, crunches, upper back stretches, etc. I did these twice a day. One in morning, one before going to sleep.

2. Get a FOAM TOPPER for your bed. Just search google for it and spend  $150 on it. It will help! I guarantee it.

After the physical therapist does the trigger point therapy on your back, the next day it will be so numb that you won't even notice it hurt if it does in the morning.. You will sleep through it. If it hurts so much, take pain killers.

After that, I did the exercises for 1 week straight. On te 5th or 6th day, I've been sleeping like a baby every night!!!  I decreased my excercises/stretches down to only before going to sleep. And still no back pain!!!  However, if I don't do the stretches one or 2 nights in a row, the upper mid back pain does return. So, I'm going to be doing the nightly stretches (only takes 10min) every night for a few weeks... until I never have upper back pain again.

YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. IT IS JUST GOING TO GET WORSE.. YOU DON'T WANT TO BE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE SAYING THEY'VE HAD THIS FOR YEARS. YOU HAVE TO GET OFF UR BUTT AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, IF YOU WANT TO SLEEP NORMALLY AGAIN.

GOOD LUCK!

JS.

[vidalsasoon]

Ok, here's what I found out.

I DO have Ankylosing Spondylitis.
Symtoms can be:
- Back pain in the morning that gradually wears off but will eventually lead to your vertebrae fusing together permanently.
- IBS (Crohns?)
- Iritis (Photophobia)
- Psoriasis

Apparently there are 2 things you can do:
- Do excercise for the rest of your life and maintain good posture. this prevents your bones from fusing together...

- A "No Starch Diet" CAN PUT YOUR  ANKYLOSING SPONDYLITIS INTO REMISSION!!!! explained here: http://www.kickas.org/

Since I was officially diagnosed with "Ankylosing Spondylitis" yesterday I'm going to try the diet to avoid the medications. I'm going to miss the bread :(

[Kathy316]

I have had mid/upper back pain for almost 4 months.  It started as a sore spot (around the bra line) to the right of my spine.  It became worse and now the pain radiates to both shoulders and to my neck.  Sometimes it hurts on the left side of my spine as well.  I can be sitting still and I will just feel a deep and intense ache on the right of my spine which is quite alarming.  I also have a lot of indigestion.  My doctor just put me on nexium and it helps.  Does anyone have indigestion with their mid/upper back pain?  I have tried a chiropractor and had no success.  I am still doing physio (7 weeks of all these kinds of stretches).  The stretches do feel good at times but the situation is not resolving itself.  Any insights would be appreciated - especially the mid/upper back pain and indigestion issue.  Thanks!

[loulou44]

Get this... I just found this site from the advise of a friend who is concerned about me. My husband thinks I'm a whimp. I have had this problem off and on for about 10 years. The last couple years have been the worst (every morning)

First (at 30 years old) started with a chiropractor with no relief, even felt worse after every treatment. People thought it was in my head because "chiropractors are great". Then my GP was convenced it was the weight of my breast (5"2" tall, 115lbs wearing a size F cup). This could have been some of the problem because I ended every day with neck pain and a migraine. He did an MRI and found Type 1 Arnold-Chiari Malformation (born with brain tilting back farely close to spine). However he did not think this was the problem. He concured with the breast weight theory, thus my insurance agreed to pay and I was thrilled!! Had a reduction from cup size F to B. I felt worlds better - but anyone would believe me!

Then a c-section 12 years ago, hystorectomy 4 years ago, and galbladder removed this last March. I also suffered from kidney stones this summer which made the upper back pain seem like a walk in the park. I am so tired and embarassed of things being wrong I lied to my husband and my boss about where I went last week when I saw my doctor AGAIN with this pain. She put me on muscle relaxers for the last week - nothing.

I just called to report the meds are not working and I need some help soon or I'm going to eat my young due to the lack of sleep. I'm miserable and too young for this. I thought I was all alone before today. I'm sorry and glad I'm not.

I'm going to take some of the advise from you guys - excersizes, sleeping positions and reading books. I wish a Doctor would speek up on this page and help (if they could).

[terrible_kannon]

I suffer from the same pain as everyone here... mid-upper back between the shoulder blades.  Sometime early last year I actually gave away my twin mattress, and purchased a camping air mattress from walmart, figuring that because my twin mattress was so old, it had to be the cause of the pain.

I slept on the air mattress for quite a few months and the pain was gone.  This is why I feel the air mattress helped:  When you are laying down, you can almost figure that the heaviest part of your body that is taking on the most gravity is probably your hips and butt.  When sleeping on an air mattress (despite how full it is), the weight at your hips will pull down and the rest of the mattress will firm up around your legs, upper torso and head.  I think that this option might offer more support to the mid back than a regular mattress that may offer little "give" when it comes to weight distribution.  I'm also speaking as one... so I don't know if anyone else has given this a try or not.  Maybe you should!  Camping mattresses are much cheaper and probably more durable, since they are made for the outdoors.  I only went through 3 in the time that I slept on them.

Here I am,  a little more than a year later, and I've finally switched back to a regular bed mattress (it was a gift from my grandparents).  I've slept on it 3 nights... and the first two were problem free.  Last night I awoke, and to my disappointment that familiar annoying pain was back!  I'm so disappointed.  I'd hate to have to give this wonderful new bed away and go back to "camping out" just to fix my back.  It's and unfair battle.

I'm going to give this a week, and perhaps try to sleep with my head propped up on two pillows and see if it helps.  If not, I'm going to to the doctors and I will probably bring some of these documents with me to see if I can't get any other answers to alleviate the pain.

I believe almost 3 years ago I was involved in a car accident where I suffered from whiplash... and because it didn't get properly addressed, I wonder if this is a contributing factor?  

[notkatemoss]

If you guys want your pain to go away for ever, than you need to go to a NUCCA (National Upper Cervical Chiropractic Association) doctor like I do. I know the word "chiropractor" might frighten some of you but they are completely different than your regular crack your spine doctor. I had this exact problem for about a couple months; I would go to sleep and in about four to five hours I would wake up and my upper/middle back would kill me and the only way I could sleep was in a chair (up-right). My mom told me to go to her NUCCA doctor, but I was very, very skeptical. I was so tired and annoyed that I finally went because I was ready to try anything at that point. Long story short, I went and he took my x-ray and "adjusted" me and in about one week, I COULD SLEEP PAIN FREE. I will give you the website to explain what a NUCCA doctor is, because it's too tricky for me to explain. Or type in "NUCCA doctors" in a search engine. I promise that it will help every single one of you that are experiencing this problem. Please, please believe me and check it out, you won't regret it. God bless!
Emily
http://www.nucca.org/

[Nepali]

I am diagnosed with Ankylosing Spondalytis and have pain in glut area.
I also have pain in the mid back (between shoulders) that come after 4-5 hours of sleep and wears off later, like most of you have. My Rheumotologist says it is not due to AS. My neurologist thinks it might be from a small benign tumor (seen from MRI).
I am going to try YOGA (from Ramdev) beginning next year, will let you all know about it if you want to.
One thing that has helped me recently and I will tell you about it. Within 4 days the pain has substantially gone down and now I can sleep for 8 hours without waking up due to pain.
I made a paste of indian ghee (similar to butter) and ginger powder. Rub it in the pain spot and sleep overnight without cleaning it. Wash it off the next morning, repeat.
It has worked for me so far, I have stopped taking my pain killer. Try it out and let us know.

[RPTHALL]

I've been experiencing severe back pain while sleeping for about 2 months.  I woke up this morning in tears because it was worse than ever.  The pain feels as though it is grabbing my ribcage and then it literally takes my breath away.  The pain extends from my lower back to my shoulder blades.  I toss and turn all night trying to find a comfortable spot so I can get some sleep.  I am forced to get out of bed early just to get relief from the pain. The pain starts a few hours after falling asleep and starts to subside after I stand up.  I decided to do a little research this morning and found people that are suffering from the same exact thing that I am.  I'm so sad that there is not an actual cure for what we are going through.  I don't want to start taking a ton a meds but I'm also scared that this will never go away.  I will try some of the advice that I've read today so maybe there will be some relief instore for me or a few more hours of sleep in my future.  Thanks to everyone for letting me know I am not the only one or that this is not just in my head.  

[jpinpb]

As others on this board, it is somewhat of a relief to learn I’m not alone and there are people having similar problems and I'm not crazy. I've been suffering from midback thoracic pain (but mostly on the right side, between shoulder blades) for over 3 years, going on 4 years.  Hard for me to pinpoint the exact commencement and what, if anything, caused it or how it originated.  I have not injured my back lifting anything or in a motor vehicle accident.  

I'm 46 y.o. female, 120 pounds, 5'6, stenographer for 25 years (now only part time).  For over 20 years I've worked out and exercised regularly, occasional jog, rollerblade.  The last 3 years has not been as regular, since I've been more tired than usual due to lack of sleep.  I go to bed, fall asleep and approximately 4-5 hours later I wake up w/pain in my back, sometimes feels like I’ve been sleeping on a rock or the weight of my body is pressing on my back.

Initially the pain was severe.  Felt like someone just punched me in the back.  The degree of pain ranges from 2 to 8 on a scale of 1 to 10.  I suspect I may have more than one problem going on.  First I thought it was my mattress.  So I went out and bought a mattress from Sears.  I think it was a Sealy posturepedic.  But the pain continued.  Seemed to be relieved if I laid on the floor w/my legs up.  I thought I needed a stiffer mattress, so I got a very stiff Stearns and Foster.  Made no difference.  Tried foam over it.  Didn't help.  Slept over relatives and friends.  Type of mattress didn’t seem to matter.  Ice didn't make much difference, nor heat.  Started taking supplements, MSM.

Went to a chiropractor.  No help.  Went to different chiropractor.  Nothing.  Had x-rays done.  Fine.  Had and M.R.I.  Fine.  Started thinking it was an aortic aneurysm.  Went to a cardiologist who almost laughed me out of his office (not a smoker, not overweight).  But he told me he thought I may have a posterior protruding ulcer.  He also ordered a liver ultrasound.  Liver was slightly enlarged, but otherwise normal.

[jpinpb]

I started to think perhaps it was an ulcer.  Seemed right before my period the pain was greater.  Was it just coincidence I crave and eat more chocolate then.  Could it be I had an ulcer and the chocolate was aggravating it?

Went to a G.P.  Had blood work done.  Everything fine.  No H.Pylori bacteria.  Doubted it was an ulcer.  But I was anemic.  Did a hemoccult.  No blood in stools.  Doubt a bleeding ulcer.  Went to an acupuncturist.  She thought that I had some liver problem.  Her treatments helped a little, but it was no cure and $$ after a while.  I started taking some liver supplements, which did not help much. Stopped treatment.

Had a mammogram done, just in case some weird problem radiating to back.  Mammogram a.o.k.

I was referred to another chiro/kinesiologist.  Although the adjustments did NOTHING to improve my condition, he gave me a variety of supplements, including E.F.A.  The pain was reduced, but not covered under insurance and had to stop going.

At a holiday party December 2006 was speaking with a lady.  The hostess went around with a tray of chocolate (my weakness) and I indulge.  The woman I'm talking to declines.  Why?  She had her gallbladder removed.  Why?  What were her symptoms?  She proceeds to describe my exact symptoms.  Pain between the shoulder blades, mostly on the right side.  Chocolate is too fatty for her to eat.

So that’s when I was convinced I had a gallbladder problem.  And is it a coincidence?  I’m a vegetarian (no red meat for over 20 yrs, complete veg. Since 1992 – eat cheese, sometimes ice cream – no eggs).  Not unusual for me to sit down w/a big bowl of broccoli a few times a week.  I’m thinking I’m eating healthy, anti-cancer and all that.  I started reading about gallbladder and how it’s difficult to digest gassy foods, fatty foods, fried food.  I eat black beans for a source of protein.  Rare that I eat fatty foods, but once in a while, maybe once a month, we take the stepkids out for some burgers at Islands or Ruby’s and I’ll indulge in a shake and some fries.  I always seem to have problems digesting cheese (face breaks out – even when eating chocolate).  I love cheese.  I was thinking I might be lactose intolerant.  I stopped drinking milk.  I started to drink goat’s milk.  I heard it was easier to digest.  However, I think there’s more fat in it. I'd have cereal and I’d make protein smoothies w/it and put a banana in there.

Seems like I ate everything I shouldn’t eat if one has a gallbladder problem.  So I cut all that out (seems like there was nothing left for me to eat) and the pain wasn’t an 8 as often.  I had to watch and pay attention to what I ate.  But the pain never fully went away.  I continued taking all kinds of supplements, E.F.A., M.S.M., liver supplements (milk thistle, bupleurum) glutamine, oregano, peppermint, ginger.

Pain continued, though not as severe.  Recently new insurance, Kaiser.  Start all over again.  Blood work.  Everything ok.  No red flags.  No H. Pylori.  Amylase, Creatine, all fine.  Anemic.  Iron supplements.  Hemoccult again.  Fine.  Ultrasound of gallbladder.  No gallstones detected. Did an endoscopy.  Fine. (now throat sore from it) Pain in midback continues, sometimes sharp.  Seems to be centered more in the middle of my back.  Continues to wake me up at night.  Now hurts even during the day at times.

Other day, thinking if it’s not my gallbladder, then I had about 4 little pieces of broccoli and a small bowl of black bean soup.  Couple of hours later, pain in my right side toward the bottom of my ribcage, extending to my mid back between my shoulder blades.  What the hell?

Wondering if it’s related to what I eat somehow.  Seem to be having anal itching, suspect hemorrhoids.  Should I do a colonoscopy?

My husband calls me all excited one day.  Said he was speaking w/a co-worker who is having his gallbladder removed b/c of gallstones.  Said he had an ultrasound done that was fine.  But a few weeks later was vomiting and rushed to E.R. where they told him he had a gallbladder problem, gave him meds and scheduled surgery. How could an ultrasound be negative, but a few weeks later, they tell him it’s gallstones?

Spoke w/G.P.  Going to be scheduling a HIDA scan to rule out gallbladder and another M.R.I. of my back (second opinion).  Sometimes pain is severe.  December 24th I thought I was going to spend it in E.R.  was crying from pain.  Started to think there’s some gallstone lodged in  the pancreatic duct and maybe have a pancreas problem, too.  Or maybe my spine.  Purchased a dolphin massager from the Healthy Back store and tried to massage my back.  Helps a little.  Doesn’t seem like it’s muscular.  Sometimes typing for hours my neck gets stiff and when I massage my neck, I feel that it helps relieve the tension and relaxes the muscles in my neck.  But the midback pain does not seem to get relief from a massage.

So I was trying to think back to when the pain started 3-4 yrs ago.  Early 2005 I had a molar pregnancy which I was forced to terminate.  I had a spinal epidural, which was supposed to numb me from the low back down.  However, for some reason, it did not seem to work b/c I could feel the pain and so they had to put me under w/anesthesia.  I did have pain in my back for quite a while after the surgery.  I just thought it was normal.  Now I’m wondering if there was a problem from that.   Maybe they didn’t inject it in the right spot.  Maybe they injected it more my midback and not my low back.  Don’t know what to think.  

I also did in 2005 have the pleasure of sleeping on a sofa couch that felt like I was sleeping on cobblestones.  I somehow doubt that would be the problem 3-4 years later.  I’m making myself crazy trying to figure out what caused it.  Could it be hormonal?  Do I have some kind of weird endometriosis?  But that would involve usually low back.  My low back is fine.  The pain is bad, but not knowing why or what it is or the reason is scary.

[jpinpb]

Sometimes i run Badger on my back.  It has ginger in it.  It helps a little.  But never goes away entirely.

[savik]

Another Nepali?  So scarce.  Good idea--ginger is great.  I put mine in Extra Virgin Olive oil.  Give it a try.

You could increase the heat with chili powder--just a thought.

[jpinpb]

Sometimes after tossing and turning for hours, I finally just get up and take a real long hot shower, like 20 minutes or so.  Seems to help a little.  Actually, I'm not sure which helps more, showering or moving bowels in the morning.  I seem to have a lot of gas.  I'm wonder like someone else who posted if digestion has anything to do w/all this pain.  The endoscopy showed nothing, so I may have to try the other end. But at this point, after reading some other posts, I'm wondering if I have some freakish tumor in my back.  I don't know what to think any more.

[jpinpb]

I don't think I have TMJ.  However, it sometimes feels like I clench my teeth.  I don't know if that affects my midback.

[jpinpb]

women are prone to gallstones, especially after pregnancy.  may want to check that.

[jpinpb]

You are lucky to have discovered it was YAZ causing pain.  I'm not on any meds.  The only thing I take is Exedrin for migraines a couple of times a month.  Another reason why I thought it might be an ulcer.  I hear those pills can cause digestive problems.  But endoscopy ruled all that out. Taking that seems to relieve the back pain.  But I only take them for the migraines b/c that is pain I can't endure.  Far worse than back.  But when the back pain goes to 8, it's just as bad.  I've resisted taking any painkillers, anti-inflammatories or muscle relaxers for back pain.  Been trying the natural route w/o success.

[jpinpb]

Since you are a transcriptionist, similar to what I do.  Has your condition improved?

[jpinpb]

sed rate is fine for me, btw.  just the mysterious pain that doesn't ever completely go away.

[jpinpb]

As an added bonus, I just started getting tingling in my left calf.  It's not superficial, as if one's foot or leg is falling asleep.  I can't shake it off. Seems to start from behind my knee and radiate to my ankle.  Comes and goes.  Thought it might be a popilteal cyst or blood clot.  Had an ultrasound done of my leg.  No blood clot or cyst.  The tingling is inconsistent.  Another mystery.  May have to M.R.I. the leg, too.

[jpinpb]

Forgot to say, got checked for diabetes and I don't have that.

[Spectrum1to3]

Try this, it's worth a shot.  Helped me find out I had a hernia... hoping helps the back, too:

http://tinyurl.com/3436wj

[GaryNJ]

I have been suffering from thoracic back pain for apprx 3 years after 4-5 hours of sleeping.  When talking to doctors, I typically describe it as chronic thoracic paraspinal muscle spasm while sleeping.  Looking at my paraspinal muscles (the muscles on ether side of your spine) it was obvious that they were develped and in a state of spasm.  This seems to be the basis of my pain while sleeping.  I've had every iimaginable treatment and test done including MRI's on my C, L and T spine, chiropratic care, massage therapy, physical therapy, intramuscular stimulation, trigger point injections, epidural injection and even 5 rounds of botox injections into the muscels under the guidence of a CT scan.  Some of these treatments eased the pain by a maximum of 10%, but non have been a cure.  One night I slept on an old coach in my childrens playroom and slept the entire night with almost no pain!!!  The coach is broken and when I would lay on it, my butt would sit in between the two seat cushions and much lower than my upper back with my head and feet at about the same level  (like you would look in a hammock but with your knees somewhat bent).  Anyway, once I discovered this, I slept on that coach for almost three months almost pain free and for 7-8 hours!!  Good for my back, but miserable becasue I wanted to sleep beside my wife.  So I took the two seat cushions off of the coach and put them on my bed and slept on top of them.  That worked quite well too, but not quite as effective (plus I looked kind of silly).  We decided to try buying a new mattress.  We bought a very, very soft one.   Didn't work and sent it back.  We then bought a tempurpedic mattress... didn't work and sent it back as well.  It then dawned on my wife, I was getting relife due to the shape my body was laying in on that coach.  We thought we could reproduce that same shape with an air mattress.  Wala, in comes the sleep number bed.  I settled in on Sleep number 15 after about a week. It allows me to sleep for 8 hours!!  There are only a few mornings each month where I have some mild pain or tightness.  For the most part, I wake refreshed and read to go!!  I travel a lot for my job so hotels are a living hell.  Solution:  I bought a single air mattress with a build in electric pump that fits in my suitcase, it also lets me sleep throught the night without pain!!!  Airport security sometimes raises an eyebrow though.  Small price to pay to keep my job thought.  Not a cure, I know, but hey.... it may help many of you as it has me.

[jpinpb]

Had a second MRI w/contract.  Everything is fine.
My husband insisted it was the mattress.  We went and bought a Tempurpedic.  Helped, but not really.

I finally had the delight of having a HIDA scan, practically had to beg the doctor for him to authorize it b/c he says the ultrasound is pretty accurate.  They injected whatever in my vein.  I watched the monitor and saw my gallballder "filling" w/the fluid that was injected.  What it was supposed to do.  Then I was told that the white blob on the screen (my gallbladder) will decrease in size as it empties.  So an hour later, it did NOT.  They then injected enzymes?  Which is supposed to cause the gallbladder to do what it's supposed to do, contract, to empty the fluid out.  It did NOT.  I heard them mention something about 11%, but not knowing where it went?  That was yesterday p.m.  Guess next week I'll hear from the doc about the next step.
Something clearly wrong w/my gallblader.  Only took almost 4 years later.  But since yesterday, I'm in a lot of pain again.  Scared.  Don't really want to have my gallbladder removed.

[rob89]

My symptoms started 2 weeks ago and are similar to many of you:
- fine during the day (maybe a couple tender spots near the spine)
- intense and scary pain after sleeping for 3 or 4 hours
- only relief is to stand or sit
- muscle relaxer didn't help

The Dr didn't help, but confirmed that there wasn't any kind of organ problem. I went to a physical therapist that does "myofascia release", basically stretching out muscles/tendons very slowly in my back. Also included exercises using a foam "roller"

http://www.relaxtheback.com/exercise-and-therapy-foam-rollers-product-6374106

that I laid on, on my spine (parallel, not perpendicular like this picture) . Also breathing exercises that I did on the roller and when I got the pain while in bed.

Bottom line(s):
- This was completely a muscle/tendon thing.
- I was sitting on the couch using my laptop leaning over to a coffee table for 2 days and this is not good.
- You don't feel it while you are doing it, but at some point it will just be too much for your back.
- You need to sit straight, do exercises for your back/posture and give it time to heal. It's been 3 weeks now and I can finally sleep through the night.
- Knowing that it was a muscle problem and not more serious is very comforting.
- I recommend a therapist that is knowledgeable about posture and myofascial release and can educate you about backs (no drugs).
- Maybe there is something that you are doing, the way you are sitting, lifting, etc. that you think is ok, but it isn't

[dcsc2]

You should try this product called cramp911.  I have started using after a friend suggested. I found it on internet.  I too have lower back pain, which I now believe is spasms.  It is truly amazing.  

[Informer]

Ditto. Ditto. I'm only on day 3 of this and I'm terrified after reading these posts. I sit at a desk all day but exercise regularly and always have. I'm a 43 yr old female, not overweight and have no other health issues. One thing I know is that I won't take pain killers!  I'm sure it's easy for me to say b/c it's a new problem for me but I encourage you all to stay away from pain killers such as Vicotin. It is highly addictive and your doctor won't tell you this. My sister has done two 30 day in-patient rehab treatments to try kick her 50 pills a day habit! You can quickly ramp up to needing this many. She goes to 3 AA meeting a week and has appointments once a month with an addiction psychiatrist and counselor. All this work to try to get off these things. This drug is bad news (as are the others like it).

[stormy01]

i am sitting here reading these well in the very pain alot seem to be in. I woke this morning with a dull pain but tonight it was intense i tried aleeve and soaking in hot water all to no avail htew stretching has helped alittle while i am stretched then hurts again when i come back to a normal position i was diagnosed with a herniated disc at
L4-L5 a few years ago and was also told by a neurosurgeon i have osteoarthritis in my spine I am now 38.I have tried to get into shape some with an elipitical due to treadmills and inclines of any type make my back hurt. I am ready for any suggestions. I have a history of sclerosis on C3 also. Usually the sclerosis makes things not work and with my current pain I move just fine. I am open to suggestions since the pain is close to non-bearable. I hate to keep getting pain killers as i do not want addicted.

[hatetheiceinfebruary]

I was running and slipped on ice and literally did a fall like you see in the cartoons. I was up in the air and flat on my back in 3 seconds. I completely knocked all the air out of me too. I didn't feel any pain until about 3 days later after doing pilates. The pain is awful when sleeping or riding in the car for a long time. Went to see my GP and he says nothing major but take ibuprofen for pain. It has been four weeks and am not sleeping well. I don't feel pain during the day. I am still running and doing all other activities. Any suggestions?

[zabe]

I have had the SAME EXACT thoracic T3-T4 mid back pain. FINALLY after THREE YEARS of complaining I got them to do an MRI and I have a large herniated disc which is very rare in this area of the back but it can happen. SO ALL OF YOU DEMAND YOUR DOCTOR APPROVE AND YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY APPROVE AN MRI IN THIS SITUATION.

[Chet10719]

I'm not saying you all don't have issues with ruptured disk, etc, but, If you are having back pain after being in bed, most likeley it's the way you're bed is supported. Most people think that a box spring set will provide a good base for a mattress. It does not. Most of the body weight rests directly on the slats that support the box spring. Check to make sure the slats under the box springs are under the heaviest parts of your body, the shoulders and hips. If the slats are under you're ribs, then your upper thoraxic spine is supporting your body weight. If a slat is directly under your lower lumbar, guess what, you'll have lower back pain. Put more slats in your beds and make sure they cover the right spots. A good mattress and a peice of heavy plywood is better than a weak mattress and any box spring. Even a Sleep Number bed can be supported incorrectly, never put a support board under the webing supports.

[rubyj]

Get a tempurpedic.  they are more expensive, but are WAY worth it.  that may help you.  dont forget the pillows too.  we have a lot less pain after we got ours.  a lot of friends and family have gotten them too, and noticed a huge difference.  good luck!

[cmammons]

I am curious about something.  Let's take a poll and find out what kind of cars we are all driving.  I am thinking there is a corrilation b/w me getting a new car ~ 3 years ago to when my back pain started.  I KNOW FOR A FACT that when I changed cars, my "cruddy" knee caps began flairing up more.  I went from a Ford Expedition to a Ford Freestyle.  I scaled down in size.  I do stay in my car a lot during the day b/c of running my kids around, darting from here to there and back.


Just curious~

[jeepmom]

45 year old female, slightly overweight, exercise 2-3 times/week.

Pain began last week. While making love (on my back). Laugh if you must. Now I can't lay down for more than 20 minutes -- pain sets in that soon.  It's a sharp stabbing pain, and lingers most of the day. So I must attempt to sleep sitting up, but it's not very restful. I will try the exercises and stretching.

Thanks for all the info, glad to not be alone in this. Was beginning to fear it may be heart related, based on family history.

(Had gall bladder out last spring -- glad I did it -- unlike kidney stones, gall stones don't go away, ever.)

[Corum]

O.M.G...  exact same symptoms for me.. just started a few days ago...

..strained my back (maybe) friday.  Took ibuprofen.  Haven't slept more than 4 hours since then (5 days). Even loaded with codeine, ibuprofen, and paracetamol (and also temazepam and also prozac)  I thought finally a good nights sleep...
...4 hours later I woke up in agony. WTF! Now the pain starts as soon as I lie down - whether on my back or on my sides. I'm fat so its hard to sleep on my face.

I found this site searching for a solution to my problem... seeing people having this problem for YEARS even with access to MRIs etc - I'm scared. I already posted a question about this asking if it might be a kidney infection but its looking like this exact thing.  - did any doctors reply to this topic yet?

Good luck everyone! Group hugs!
*cries*
-Corum.

[Corum]

Ok see above - I had same symptoms but I found an answer that worked for me.

I was in agony whenever I had slept for 4 hours and was on the strongest pain meds I could get. Whatever position I chose gave me the same problem.

What I ended up doing was sleeping my 4 hour nightly sleep in my guest bed, which has a slightly softer mattress, then walking round the house, then going back to bed on my Normal bed. The difference in pressure distribution, I believe, helped at least give me time to sleep.

Since then I have been getting less pain after each 4 hour sleep, though I still wake up at the same time, its much easier to go back to sleep after a little wander around, even to the same bed.

All the best for everyone else!

[kellygill]

I have been reading everyone's complaints about their mid back pain and I too have the same pain...on the left side of my back beneath my shoulder blade.  I've had it for alittle over two months...everytime I lay down for more than an hour or so it hurts...when I breathe it hurts and when I go to get up it hurts and then about an hour after that it subsides?  I have had Ct scans and x-rays and a bone scan and all it shows is minimal disc disease in the cervical area??  I am following up with a neuro surgeon and he has put me on a course of what is called, Thoracic Facet injections x3.  I've had the first one (and let me tell you it is not pleasant) but the pain is starting to subside a bit ten or so days after the first shot...I get shot number 2 in three weeks.  I am hoping that the shots continue to help with the pain.  I hope that this was helpful to some of you who might be looking for some relief!  Let me know if anyone else has had these shots and if there are any side effects after taking a course of three of these injections?

Good luck to all

[amyjovi76]

Wow, it took me three nights to read through this whole thread.  I am glad I did though, and know I am not the only one out there dealing with this.  But I am sorry to all who are dealing with it.

My story is very similar to all of yours, back pain after 5-6 hours of sleep, takes about 30 min. of stretching/moving in mornings, etc.  Here are the tests and treatment I've had:

-First diagnosis was acid reflux - Nexium once a day didn't do a thing for it
-Chest x-ray - normal
-MD and DO thought it could be gallbladder - normal ultrasound, no gallstones found, no inflammation or thickening of walls, HIDA scan abnormal with ejection fraction of 31% (was told normal is around 50%)
-Chiropractic treatments - back pain went away almost immediately, but came back.  Not as intense.
-Met with surgeon - he didn't think back pain was due to gallbladder because chiro helped - wait and monitor to see if I develop "classic" gallbladder symptoms (abdominal pain after eating, vomitting, etc. which I have had non)
-Met with GI doctor - he agreed with surgeon above about gallbladder, wait and see, but put me on Prevacid twice daily for 1 month since most don't produce any acid on twice daily and we can rule out acid reflux if symptoms don't change - I'm a week and 1/2 into that.
-Continuing chiro adjustments and massage therapy for 2 months now - had a couple of pain free nights/mornings - chiro said I should be better by now, but says I'm "goofy".  He thinks it's weak muscles in back and that I'm not holding the adjustments very well.  He said what takes a normal person 1 adjustment, takes me 3.  In the middle of all of this, I also had a recurrence of a muscle spasm in the top right shoulder/neck area.  I had this last fall.  He thinks that's coming from my neck (which is losing it's curve...it's pretty straight and I can see where I will benefit from chiro in that area).  First chiro I saw (I'm on the 2nd one due to insurance...wanted one in-network) told me I had once fractured a vertebrae in my back a long, long time ago, when I was a kid, and they could tell it's healed on it's own, but the vertebrae is losing it's "square" shape and forming the beginning of bone spurs.  2nd chiro told me that wasn't the problem, but he also said my x-ray looks more like a 51 year old rather than the 31 years I am.  (No offense to those over 50!)
-I know I'm overweight....and my BMI tells me I'm obese, so it's not like I couldn't stand to lose some weight.  I know that would help with back problems and gallbladder alike. I'm large breasted too, so I'm also pursuing the proper support in my bra theory too.
-I've flipped my mattress, added a featherbed topper, slept in the guest room (2 nights with no pain, but it came back...thought I was on to something!), put pillows in all different positions.  I'm a side and back sleeper.
-Chiro has me doing moist heat on neck and mid-back as much as I can in a day (which is normally just once, in the evenings) and also increased my stretches.  I'm doing some neck, upper back, and hamstring stretches.  
-It's almost like I'm ok when I'm in one position at night.  But, if I wake up at 3:00 or 4:00 and try to turn over, I'm very very stiff and it hurts like hell.  But once I turn over, and get into the position, I'm ok and go back to sleep. It started out worse than this though....it was excruciating pain when I immediately laid down, and hurt worse when breathing deep in or out.  If I had to cough or yawn, forget it!  
-So I would say my condition has improved, but it's not gone.  I can go back to sleep, thank goodness, but I'm not sure just how good of sleep I'm getting because I'm always sleeping late and then have to rush around (with a sore back for 30 min.) to get to work.
-During the day, I can move around just fine.  I can even exercise, walk, clean, vacuum, dance, etc.  It's only after I've been laying for a while and really sore and stiff in the mornings.
-I asked my chiro tonight about the possibility of osteoarthritis because the symptom of being stiff in the mornings for 30 min. that I found online.  He immediately blew me off....said I was too young.  He said only after 45 and that's on the young end. But then I thought (later on), you said my x-rays look like a 51 year old!  I'm going to call him out on this next time.  He wants to give it 2 more weeks (he's supposedly doing some different type of adjusting) and then if no improvement, do an MRI.  He was then talking about sending me to a pain dr. and some injections and I just don't think I am willing to do that.  I would rather keep doing my stretches, strengthening my back muscles, losing weight and see what happens.
-I'm still thinking it could be my gallbladder too, but I would think if it was that, I would have been able to eat the Mexican food and margaritas I've had numerous times since this all started without other gallbladder symptoms!  I just had a burger for lunch today and was fine.

Just thought I'd share my story.  Thanks to any for advice/feedback/suggestions.  I will do my best to let everyone know if I find something that works for me.  But everyone is different.  Keep the faith everyone and try to stay positive.....it could be worse, we could have pain ALL the time.  That's what I am trying to remind myself.  At least I'm walking, breathing, and living! And I thank God for that everyday!

[amyjovi76]

jpinpb -

Would you mind giving us an update as to what you found out about your HIDA scan and gallbladder possibilities? As I mentioned in my post, my HIDA was abnormal too and I saw the bright blob you are talking about in the test.....mine didn't go away either, and they told me after 30 min. it should be empty.  

Just thought I'd see if you found anything else out!
  

[amyjovi76]

I thought I should mention this for those that are dealing with gallbladder....

My DO shared this story with me....

Everyone always associates gallbladder problems with right-sided abdominal pain.  It's true that gallbladder pain can refer to the back or to the shoulder, but my DO only had LEFT-sided BACK pain as an indication that something was wrong.  She said she had it on a Friday night really bad, but then it went away.  The very next Friday, it came back so bad, she had to go to the ER.  A doctor, in the ER as a patient. : ) Anyways, they did the ultrasound and found gallstones and she had the gallbladder taken out. The back pain went away.

I wish it were that simple for all of us, but I thought I would share her left-sided back pain with everyone.  Sometimes I just WISH they HAD found gallstones in my ultrasound....the answer would be much easier!

[waverly2]

More about me later, but try sleeping on the floor, or on a exercise mat on the floor.  This helped me when I was at my worst.  Of course, then I got pains in my hip and legs, and had to turn over a lot, but at least it was better than the mid-back pain.

[back_nosleep]

I am experiencing the same things most of you are severe nightime back pain 1 -3 hours after falling alseep or laying down for  more than an hour.  I have dealt with it for over a year now.  I have had to trips to two different PT centers with no luck, I was going 2-3 times a week for many months to both.  The Physical therapists were baffled, because I rarely had pain when I arrived there after work. I left the first PT and the second PT let me go because they said after months they could not help me. I have seen two orthopedic doctors.  They are baffled,  I have had edpidural steriod and facet steriod injections, both with no results.  I have had many many MRI's.  I have had my entire back done.  it show's degenerative discs in the L4/L5 area and a small herniated disc in my cervical spine. Two orthopedic doctors said this was not what was causing my pain, I have treid the muscle relaxers, they did nothing.  Hydrocodein I use very spraringly, only when I am very frustrated and want to try to get more sleep. I am tired at about noon and just want to sleep. , when I get home from work I have to take a nap.  I was never like that before, people used to remark about how much energy I had. I am evern trying Lunesta to try to get some quality sleep.  I am 6' and around 195 pounds, so I am a little overweight, but nothing that should be causing this degree of nightime pain.  Sometimes the pain stays in a much less sever way during the day or a dull pain.  I had 2 CT scans that only showed gall stones.  I asked the doctor if these could cause the problem and he said no.  I also have a great deal of gas after easting certain foods.  He said they wouldn't be the problem for the back.  The one doctor gave up on me and told me to call him if I ever find the answer, the other ortho doctor sent me to his partner whom is currently performing Prolo-Therapy to help strenghten my muscles.  I had my first treatment 2 weeks ago and go again every month thereafter.  Insurance companies do not cover this, but it is affordable (about $125 for a series of shots)  Basically, they inject you with dextrose sugar in your ligaments to purposely inflame them.  The hope is that once inflamed the brain will send more bloodflow to the area and restrengthen it.  I have not felt any improvement yet, but my doctor said normal patients take 3 to 7 injections, which equals 3 - 7 months of treatmen and a whole boatload of injections (i think I had 15 last time).  I really don't know where to go if this doesn't work. My pain has been really bad lately, but the doctor said the Prolo can cause increased pain.  Something got to give.

[amyjovi76]

Well.....I've had a rough past few days...but I think I have found the answer to all of my problems.  Thursday of last week, after eating lunch (a tossed salad with bacon bits, cheese, and Ranch dressing), I started feeling really nauseous.  It just came on about 30 min. after eating and would NOT go away.  Just a feeling that I needed to throw up.  I never did though.  I was able to manage a bowl of cereal and a piece of toast for dinner.  Went to bed, woke up on Friday and still had the same feeling.  Had some peanut butter crackers....still felt nauseous.  Had part of a ham and cheese sandwich with lettuce/tomato and fruit for lunch....still nauseous but still hadn't thrown up.  About 3:00 on Friday, I started having upper right abdominal pain, especially when I breathed deep.  Exact same spot the gallbladder is....where the re-created pain was when I had the HIDA scan.  Had Subway for dinner that night and shortly after eating, pain in the gallbladder spot and nausea.  So I scheduled an appt. with my surgeon and he said it's time to take it out.  I have gallbladder removal surgery scheduled for tomorrow at noon.  I really do think all of my problems have been due to this now.  It's all too coincidental.  My back pain has actually been essentially non-existent the last few days, but I honestly think that was one form of pain the gallbladder was giving me, and now it's just moved towards a more classic symptom.  In the last week or so, the back pain did settle to the right side in the ribs, just opposite of where the gallbladder is.....and I also felt "uncomfortable" under my ribs on the right side.  That is classic gallbladder too.  I have no idea why it started out on the left side, but my DO said that happened to her too, so I think anything is possible.  

As a reminder, my HIDA scan came back abnormal with an ejection fraction of 31%, no stones found in ultrasound, but if the gallbladder ain't working right, I think it's just getting backed up and causing everything to be out of whack.  I hope this might help others on here.  I will report back after surgery to see if all of this just goes away!

[amyjovi76]

I should add, I had pain in the gallbladder spot after eating on Saturday and on Sunday.....and it is just now getting better.  So it was more than a few days after eating, and eating very bland and low-fat foods, that this happened to me.  

[nwimmer]

hi--
I just woke up for the second night in a row with middle back pain and found this site.  I'm 34 and had a baby four months ago.  I'm not overweight (5'7", 140), but I do carry the baby a lot.  I also sleep with her for part of the night, which causes me to contort my body around her.  To me, that's what seems like the cause, but I could be wrong.  This is new for me, so it's disturbing to hear that many of you say the condition only gets worse.  My pain is centered around the spinal cord and can feel almost like spasms.  No position is comfortable lying down.  
Other new mothers on??
N.

[Rhino1966]

I too experienced the painful symptoms outlined by everyone above.   Initially I tried adding an extra pillow after four hours of sleep, which lasted for another two hours and then I would add another pillow which gave me another two hours sleep albeit in an almost upright positions.  After reading the recommendations above, I tried a number of them and I am lucky to report that I am now sleeping through pained free. It may be a shotgun approach with a little bit of everything, but I am doing the following:

1. I have had one session of deep tissue massage where the masseur indicated my back muscles were extremely tense around the spine and that there was insufficient blood/oxygen getting to the muscles.  
2. The masseur are also recommended that magnesium is good for the tense muscles I am now taking one tablet a day
3. I had previously been recommended to take fish oil tablets three times a day which I had scaled back to one per day; I am now taking a fish oil tablet three times a day.
4. I spend five minutes per day after a hot shower lying on the ground with a rolled up towel down my spine arms by my side. This does hurt a bit of at first but I think it is showing benefits.

Not sure whether it is 1, 2, 3 or 4 or a combination but it is working for me

[Jeffsgirll]

I found this forum in April 08 when I started waking up
every morning after 3-4 hrs of sleep with what can best
be described as spasms, very painful spasms in
the middle of my back.  Like most everyone on here,
no change in position would help.  I was at the end
of my rope after a few weeks.  Then I read the post
from Mike1105 about posture.  I ordered a book
on triggerpoint therapy and one on posture but
never took them out of the box because after doing
a little research on ergonomics and the proper
way to sit at a computer and putting the info into practice
I am pain free.  I waited a month to be sure that it
fixed my problem, didn't want to jinx it.  It is such a relief
to be able to sleep more than 4 hours and to be able
to wake without that awful pain.  I read that the head
weighs about as much as a bowling ball and that
you should keep your head up straight to keep the
strain off the mid-back.  I now do my best to practice
proper posture and keep my chin up.  Good luck to everyone.
Hope this helps.  

[Tony4848]

Ive also had this same problem on and off for 6-7 years. It just started one night and kept getting worse. After many Ortho docs, one mentioned he had the same problem and realized it was for leanning over when performing surgery. I then looked at my day and thought about whay i was doing that could be causing my pain. I found that i was lifting one leg and resting it up while i was sitting on the computer. I stopped doing that and also went to a phisical therapist and lost weight. After 3 months of back stretching and and exercising, i could finally sleep!! I was"cured for 2-3 years" and only had minor pains here and there(i would rub down any pains i had and they would go awayI, until 2 months ago when it came back with a vengeance. Im trying to see what im doing diffrent(i have gained back some wight, about 15 pounds). I know for a fact streching and rubbing pain ponts does help, but need to be doen until the pain is gone from a particular spot. I also ice down the area i rub to decrease infalmmation. I aso have many other symptoms im not sure is related to this, but will mention them in case some of you have them as well. Im sensitive to light, have constipation(nuts help), dry mouth, coated tongue, feeling acidic, have other pains in diffrent places, such as wrist, knee, elbow(these come and go and are not constant). I sometimes feel like there is a knife that goes from my upper stomack, under my ribs, thru my back. It feels like there is something that send some kind of chemical into my ligaments and/or muscles nad when rubbed out it gets better. Im sure 100% stretching and rubbibg the pain points will help most of you and is why i think the basball someone mentioned helps, as it is a form of rubbing the pain away. You all need to look at your lives and see what you are doing durring the day that puts pressure on your body. Im also now going to a Rhumetologist and hdsome bloodwork and test which i will get back in a week.
I also want to mention the more you walk and stand up the better you will feel. Try to stand as much as possible durring the day and as your pain gets less you can adjust it. I hope this helps some of you.

[TomColicchio]

Hello,

I am having similar problems. The pain begins a few hours into sleep and then usually keeps me awake. It sometimes comes during the day and moves to my chest and adbomen. It has been occuring for over 2 months now. It is an awful cycle where my body eventually sleeps through the pain to catch up on all the missing sleep. I kept a log of hours of sleep for the month of May and it was 144 hours.

Another complication, which I haven't seen mentioned, is that during the day when I do get the pain, perhaps 4 times a week, my blood pressure skyrockets: AVG: 165/95

Background:

I am a 20yr old male, I am a D-1 Rower

I was training intensely prior to the start of this, but I have been physically inactive on almost all accords from the time the pain started.

In attempting to diagnose this, it was found that I had pericarditis (now cleared), but now my chest Xrays, CTs, MRIs and bloodwork are all looking normal. I am on a pain regiment of Dilaudid, Soma, and Naproxen. I don't care much for the medications because they do not give me a satisfying sleep nor do they maintain the coherent quality of life I am looking for.

[lawguy007]

Fascinating reading.  I also have "the problem,” waking up too early with deep pain in my middle back, only to have it subside after about 30 minutes of being up and around.  The old couch down in the living room gives me some relief, but after reading here I now suspect the real problem is not my mattress, but my sitting posture (computers - gotta love 'em).  That, or my gallbladder, or both, as I do have a mix of symptoms.  My mother lost her gallbladder.  But I'm leaning toward the muscle balance problem.  I have seen this, or something very like it, called "Upper Crossed Syndrome" on other sites.  

Stats, for those keeping track:  I'm 54, 210#, 5'10", and male.  No medications.  Some history of disk issues.  One whiplash several decades ago, which seemed fairly minor at the time.  Time in the "morning mid-back pain zone?"  Probably 6 or 7 years.  Until reading here, I was beginning to think it was just something I'd have to live with the rest of my life, and that may yet be the case.  However, I am glad to know there are avenues of hope, and I will continue to track them down until I get the best answer for my situation.  

For those of you who continue to suffer without relief, I understand your frustration, your dread of sleep, and your struggle to get by on less sleep than you need.  Hang in there.  You may well find one of these solutions works for you.  If you do not find a cure, you will likely find an adaptation.  Someone very wise once said, "you can put up with almost anything if you can see the light at the end of the tunnel."  Keep looking for that light.  It is there.

[Strika]

Hi All. Im new here but have been watching for about 6 months. This is how long I have had the EXACT same pain in my back as the rest of you. Waking up around 4.00am & too painfull to get back to sleep. The pain goes after around an hour of getting up. Almost no pain during the day etc. I too went to all the physios & back crsckers but to no avail.I was told the muscle I had damaged was the ROTORTORES or MULTIFIDUS that run down the side of the spine. I had accupuncture on the areas & felt great for an hour after but didnt really help.
I have now found my OWN CURE for this horrid pain & it was quite simple really & if its worked for me then it just may work for someone else & if it just helps one person on here then its worth this post.
Im 37,  6'1" & around 16 stone. Despite the lack of sleep & pain, I decided I had to get fit like I do every summer. As jogging seemed to aggravate the pain, I tried swimming. This was only 3 weeks ago. I started with 20 lengths of the 25metre pool (with breaks) per visit, then 30, then 40 & now im doing 50 lengths in an hour. Its all breaststroke. 3 weeks later & the pain has GONE!! The only thing I can feel is the slight knotted feeling between the shoulder blades due to the swimming & this is now fading  because im getting fitter. I am now sleeping soundly. The breaststroke must be working the back muscles & especially the rotortores & multifidus muscles. Anyhow Im now hopefully cured of this miserable pain & hope if you are able to swim, that this works for you. Good Luck.

[happyoldlady]

About two months ago, I started to develop the same symptom like everyone had described - wake up by back ache after sleep.    I took blood test and X-ray exam, the results all came back normal. I even consulted OGBYN for possible caused by hormone change but no cue. Out of fear and frustration, I took OB doctor's advice to start "Sleep on the Pillow".   I have been sleep without pillow for all my life. Surprisingly, it works.  Not only I slept through the night with some discomfort due to the change, the back pain I have suffered for years was completely gone.  I was shocked with the result that sleep on a pillow could have such a big impact on my body.   If you are the same like me, sleep without pillow, give it a try and make sure to give your neck the support from the pillow (no gap).  

If you have done most of the tests and they all came back normal.  You should be happy.  The chances are your pain could be caused by your daily life style.  Pay attention to your routine, like body posture, sleeping habits, eat before sleep, excise before sleep, etc.  Make some change and you will be surprised.  I hope my case will help some people.

[snowleopard]

I have suffered thoracis back pain as well as you all have suffered.  It wakes me up after a few hours and I feel just like I have slept on a park bench.  The pain and stiffness is unbearable and I just have to move out of it and move around.  I have osteoporosis and feel that it is just part of my condition.  I sleep on a soft to medium mattress as I couldn't tolerate a hard one.  I do get a lot of pain during the day in my ribs and lower back.  I try to keep active as well as I can to stay strong.  Hope you all are feeling ok.

[rolande]

I also experience this pain every night after sleeping a few hours..... It has  been happening for 6 months now. I have tried a chriopractor and he says I have ribs out of place and painfully puts them back . It helped for a bit , then back to pain. I tried again and now my back feels even worst. I don't think he knows what he's talking about. I am a waitress, 29 years old, 5'8, 130 pounds, female and in good shape. My pain actually started when I was taking a 2 month break from work to move here. I never sleep good and I am miserable , I thought no one would understand or take me seriously. It feels good to know I am not the only one.
I don't have insurance and can't afford to see doctors right now.
I will take any advice, if one of you find something that works, please let me know.
Thank you.

[NicoleG946]

I get the same back pain as everyone else! Mine started from last year when i seriously hit my head off a rock they use at beaches to stop erosion!! I was fine straight after until i noticed my memory was getting worse.........but nothing happened really until 3months ago. I get these horrific pains in my spine and up into my neck, i cant lay down as it hurts too much but if i sit too long its just as bad. Ive started getting nose bleeds too, then it calmed down for half a day......but i now get stabbing pains in my chest and ribs and im finding it hard to breathe without any pain!! I tried to make a sandwich the other day and i thought i was going to have a heart attack as i got pain in my shoulder straight through to my chest and i lost use of my arm for 10mins!! Im very scared as i there is a history of cancer in my family, but im too scared to go to the doctors. Im only 18 and im not overweight. I was wondering if anyone has had all these symptoms too??

P.S I wish everyone on this site a healthy happy life
xxxxxxxx

[boxersquashman]

I have had these symptoms for over 4 months now and after several blood tests, the white cell group HLA-B27 was found which points to the condition 'Ankylosing Spondylitis' Take a look at this website
http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/articles/article.aspx?articleId=26
It mentions there about the pain happening at night
Try using a Tens machine, that helps
good luck all
Stu (Manchester, UK)

[zrex]

A person with ankylosing spondylitis commonly will feel pain or stiffness in the lower back, especially in the morning

[Wondermum]

I too have had this debilitating condition for the last few years and I tend to see it as a huge muscle spasm which encircles my mid back right around to my upper abdominal muscles, and as other posters have mentioned I also find it incredibly difficult to take a big breath inwards or to turn over in bed without suffering immense pain.

Apart from the fact that I consider it a muscle spasm I have also noticed something else going which I think adds to the pain, this being trapped wind, because (as most of you have mentioned) the pain disappears shortly after rising, but with me I also pass wind on rising which offers relief of pain in my mid region.  Could huge muscle spasms in your thoracic region trap air in the body which cannot escape?  Has anybody else experienced this?

Also, im beginning to think it is probably much better not to sleep completely flat when you have this condition, and im seriously considering buying one of those remote controlled beds that changes the shape of the mattress, coupled with some gentle stretching exercises throughout the day.

[RubyJake]

I've been keeping up with this forum (since I finally found it over a year ago) when I can, haven't been able to comment till now.  Been suffering from same symptoms, actually off & on for about 7 years now, seems to worsen as time goes by.  Thought it was mattress in the early days, gained significant amount of weight about 10 yrs ago & thought that might be it, or maybe inactivity.  I recall now that as a child in my early teens I complained to my parents that my back (between shoulder blades) hurt when I washed dishes (still does if I do it for any brief extended amount of time) but that was obviously dismissed as me trying to find an excuse to get out of my chores.  I also used to get my brother (he's 7 yrs younger than I) to walk on my (upper) back to pop it 'cause I thought it would feel better (felt good to crack, but only at that moment then relief quickly disappeared & he wouldn’t keep on) but that stopped soon as he outgrew me.  I can arch my back/shoulders now & get quite a few cracks just by bending my shoulders back toward each other every 15-30 minutes, still no long lasting relief.  It's not usually too bad when I'm up, just when I lay down & try to go bed.  Yep, like all of us the insomnia is worst side effect of all!  I've also noticed though I never had a lot of upper body strength, & it seems to have diminished & I've become even weaker (but also have let myself get severely out of shape as I seem depressed, stressed & tired all the time!  No wonder!)  We are self-employed owner/operators in the trucking industry (yes, unrelated to this forum but diesel fuel costs are about to bankrupt us!) and I've had to let our health insurance go.  I did manage to go see a chiropractor last summer, his x-rays showed I have scoliosis (sideways curvature of the spine, should've been detected & corrected during childhood, but was never diagnosed therefore never treated).  Has anyone else been diagnosed with this or have a history of such?  Unfortunately I couldn't afford to keep up those visits besides we travel all the time & was never able to be there.  I also visited an accupressurist for a couple of weeks in a town we frequently deliver too & felt good when I left her office but never cured the nighttime problem.  Before I lost my insurance I finally went to my family Dr. as one major concern I had was that most of the symptoms are almost identical to women's heart attack symptoms so she did EKG, Chest X-Rays, Blood work, Stress Test, Gall Bladder Ultrasound, and some other test I'm not sure what it was, heart/lung/circulatory related.  I had told her about all of you on this forum (which is what prompted some of the avenues she explored).  She also sent me to a physiotherapist (with a high deductible I could only afford 2 visits).  They tried tens unit (as did chiro) I don't care for that very much as I find it very uncomfortable and doesn't seem to help.  Which reminds me, does anyone else feel like their mid-back up to base of neck & between shoulder blades is quivering at night when they're lying down?  The therapist did show me an exercise to roll up a towel (bath size) and place it under my spine vertically for several minutes each night (though I'm not diligent about doing it as a preventative measure, only when it hurts real bad which itself is so unpredictable because it comes & goes in spells) but when it's really bad and I can hardly move like I'm paralyzed or something the homemade blanket roll (I use a small blanket) sometimes seems to help and relieve some pain and pressure (I just leave it until the pain has subsided enough to fall asleep, actually I sometimes fall asleep on the "roll").  I also put on calming music, too, seems to relax & help me anyway.  The chiro.  also told me my neck has no curvature so I have a roll to put under it too.  And when I pull my head forward gently with my hands, stretching my neck by putting my chin to my chest it hurts, but the stretches seem to run down all down into my back where it hurts then provide some relief sometimes.  Well, I'm sure I've yapped long enough, just had a lot to say on this condition or whatever it is that has us all suffering so terribly and has ruined (at least temporarily, hopefully only temporarily) our quality of life.  If anyone else has comments to what I've said or scoliosis or anything please reply.  I'm going to print all of your posts out to take to my doctor once I can afford to reinstate my insurance and hopefully together we can all help each other and find the cause & the CURE!!  

[Locutus]

Not sure if this will help, but what helps me right now is to sleep on the couch on my side instead of in the bed.  It allows me to rest my back against the backside of the couch.  When doing this I find I don't have the same back pains throughout the night and in the morning.

[TexasChet]

I, too, am amazed to see so many people experiencing the same problem as me. Here's my details:

I'm a 44-year old male, 5' 9", 218 lbs..
My problem began in July so it's been about 3 1/2 months now of almost daily agony.
Some time this spring I was diagnosed with sleep apnea and put on a CPAP.
Whereas I used to sleep fitfully due to the apnea, now I spend the entire night motionless on my back thanks to the CPAP.
This spring I was prescribed Lisinopril for high blood pressure.

I wake up almost every night at 4am with excruciating back pain between my shoulder blades. The pain is so intense that it is often hard to breathe. There is no position that allows me to get back to sleep. I usually take some Aleve and a hot bath and spend the rest of the night/morning sitting upright in a chair waiting for the pain to subside. Once it does (usually in 1-3 hours) then I am fine for the rest of the day.

The CPAP was a wonderful addition to my life in that I was getting a full night's sleep (which I had been lacking for years) but now all of that is being negated by the fact that I am up at 4am every day.

An interesting note is that this pain comes on at about 4am regardless of what time I've gone to sleep (usually between 10pm - midnight).

A month of Chiropractic adjustments along with massage therapy and time spent on a jacuzi bed didn't help at all.

Today I am off to my primary MD to ensure that there's nothing internally wrong but I have no idea what the next course of action will be.

[McTarzan]

A week ago I got it - mid thoracic radiating pain after 4 or 5 hours sleep.  After trying some of the listed recomendations I get reliable relief by sleeping normally then, when awakened by the pain, stacking pillows at the head of the bed, rolling several towels beneath the knees then draping a half inflated air matress over both.  The result is similar to a very soft recliner and the angle of spinal elevation can be adjusted for best result.  Just the dithering to accomplish this alleviates some pain but it is not noticeable once in position and more sleep follows.

[Sweetbeets]

ok, I have read through about half the comments which took me at least an hour and decided just to go ahead and post my question because I didn't see anyone with symptoms just like mine through the first half of this forum. Does anyone have mid-back pain that seems to be aggravated by sitting for long periods of time? Mine is the opposite. When I sleep at night I usually wake up with little to no pain but after sitting at work it comes back and is just miserable! I have mid-thoracic pain just to the right of my spine. I am a healthy althletic 23 year old female who has been suffering for 11 years-yes, 11 years. I have tried almost everything! I have been to chiros, sports medicine doctors, massage therapists, orthapedics, neuro surgeons. About 7-8 years ago when I was a freshman in highschool after two years of pain I had a neurosurgeon at Scottish Rite in Atlanta send me all over the place before injecting me with steroid and cortizone shots which he said would make the pain go away. It didn't! He said I was the first person he had performed this on that the pain didn't go away. So I have been trying to manage the pain over the years with exercises that help but everyday it's a struggle. I am now getting acupuncture which seems to help for a couple days with no pain but then it comes back. At the moment I am in so much pain I am going there today today although I was there Saturday and they only want to see me every 1-2 weeks. I have an orthapedic doctor who knows my whole story waiting on the sidelines once my acupuncture treatment is "completed" (next few weeks) that will then burn the nerves in my neck with an epidural shot which I am excited about but fear it won't work b/c she said that the pain is closer to the spine than normal for it to be coming from the neck. Oh, I forgot to mention, I have had MRI's done and will have another in about a week. Orthopedic doctor also wants to do a bone scan although she is not hopeful it will show anything. Does anyone have any comments or experience from the epidural procedure of burning the nerves? If it does work she said the nerve will grow back in 1-2 years and I will just have to have it done again. I hope someone can help me! Does anyone also have experience from maybe going somewhere like the Mayo Clinic for them to monitor and try to figure out exactly what's happening? I am wondering if I were to go somewhere where I could get this spot massaged and exerccised correctly and treated continuously for a period of time maybe that would be the answer? I don't know. I am just so frustrated.

[djrobbieb]

Recently I found that I was waking up with upper back pain. It would occur at night while I was sleeping and then subside when I was awake. I decided to search the web and see if there was any information before I visited my doctor.

I found this discussion board and read most of the comments. Suffice it to say I was a little worried when I saw that no one found a treatment for this pain.

However I woke up today with no pain at all. I tried a lot of things like flipping the mattress and changing pillows. But I think what really did was my change in footwear. I recently bought a new pair of shoes and was wearing them daily. I didn't think anything about them, but when I switched back to an older shoe I found that the pain subsided for the night. After a few days I found that the pain was gone all together.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this information is helpful to any of you, since I'm sure your circumstances are different. Although, I hope it does. Try taking a look at your shoes.

[preggonstillhurting]

I have read this entire post and have had the same problems with pain between the shoulder blades in the upper/mid back as well as difficulty breathing upon waking(for 4 years).  I always wake up from pain before my alarm, and I have changed mattresses several times.  Nothing has worked, I don't believe the meds and the diagnostic tests are the way to go for me yet.  I am going to try really hard to complete the exercises to stretch the chest muscles and tighten the spinal muscles.  BUT, I was talking with another gal today that sees the same PT that I do and she has these same symptoms.  She said that she went to her MD after no diagnosis from PT, etc. and her MD said it was caused by esophageal heartburn.  How could that be I wondered?  She explained that the only two symptoms she had were the back pain between and just below the shoulder blades and the distinct feeling that someone had laid a pile of bricks on her chest before she went to sleep and woke up with pain in the back and chest areas, and difficulty breathing.  She has had no burning sensation like your typical indigestion/heartburn, and since her doc put her on the right meds her symptoms are completely gone.  It is something I am going to investigate definitely, before looking into the expensive diagnostics.  Anyhow, wanted to share this in case others might have never heard that heartburn could have these kinds of symptoms.  Thanks to everyone who has posted here, as every care provider I have seen and any friends that I have shared my experience with seem to think lobsters are crawling out my ears. :o) Jen

[Angelus1971]

I too have the same problem, 4 to 5 hours max sleep, find I nod off during the day coz I'm so tired.

I would say it was great to find people with the same problem but I know what your going through and it anit fun at all is it :(

I have tried sleeping on both sides, back and front but no joy.

Doctor just keeps telling me it's down to posture while sleeping, I've tried new beds ect but still nothing, thinking about trying a temper matress next but they cost a fortune.

Has anyone cured this problem yet ?

I find if I stay in bed and try to block the pain out I start to get pains in my chest and it's then agony to move to try and get out of bed.

I think I have been suffering for about 6 months now, I did slip a disc in my lower back some 3 years back and thought it maybe a result of this but this pain is in my upper back just below the shoulder blades.

HELP please.

[backpain75]

Like all of you, I am suffering from upper back pain mainly at night. My first sign of this pain was 6 years ago when I noticed a soft spot on my spine right where my spine curves and rests against a chair. This soft spot would only hurt me when I sat against a hard-surface chair for a long time. I had no pain at night at the time, but want to be sure to point out that I was sleeping on my stomach back then. Because of this, no pressure was being placed against my back so no pain was felt. Three years ago, I got married and my husband and I bought a mattress for our new bed. The first night, I layed on my stomach like always, but found it to be incredibly painful to my lower back. Because of this, I trained myself eventually to be able to sleep on my sides and back. However, by doing this, that soft spot that I described earlier really flared up and the pain spread to my ribs, shoulder blades, waist, sciatic nerve, etc. I think if I had switched out my mattress right away, the pain wouldn't have gotten this bad. In any case, after three years of pain, I switched out the mattress twice and now sleep on a sleep number bed. Unfortunately, my pain is still here and doesn't seem to have improved at all. I think if I can re-train my body to sleep on my stomach again, I will relieve the pressure points on my back but I haven't been able to fall asleep successfully on my stomach yet.

I've been to the doctor and so far my x-ray looks normal and I will be going in for an MRI this weekend. My doctor (spine specialist) has already warned me that the MRI will most likely come up clean but it will put me at ease to at least get the MRI done. My doctor is very confident that the pain I'm suffering from is due to vitamin D deficiency. Vitamin D promotes bone and joint health and in recent years many studies have found that vitamin D deficiency is the cause of a lot of previously unexplained pain. Because one of the only ways to naturally get enough Vitamin D is through sunlight, most people are deficient. I myself spend most days indoors and once I got my bloodwork done, it was confirmed that my vitamin D levels are very low. By the time vitamin D deficiency becomes a physical symptom, it will take a long time to restore your body to the right levels - it can take up to 6 months. So, for the past 3 weeks, I have been on an increased dosage of vitamin D supplements which will hopefully get my levels back to normal in the next 4-6 months and will hopefully relieve some of my pain. My doctor told me that 95% of her patients with chronic back pain are vitamin D deficient and that 90% of them feel much better after 6 months of supplements. I really hope this works for me because my pain in recent months has really been unbearable. I suggest to all of you to ask your doctor for bloodwork to test vitamin levels and then supplement those you're deficient in. Excess vitamin D is toxic so be sure to ask your doctor what the right dosage should be before taking supplements.

[Angelus1971]

Thanks for that let us know how you progress.

I work in a factory doing shifts so day light is a rare thing for me.

I was thinking of a memory foam mattress maybe a temper, has anyone tried one of these yet ?

They cost a few quid but if it works then it will be worth every penny.

[Glen1230]

Hi All,

I am so happy i found this link, i suffer from the exact same problem as you all. Lower back pain only in the morning, sharp pain in my back to the point of not wanting to take a deep breath, until i sit up or get up, and then within minutes, pain gone.

I am 35 yr male, a normal 75Kg. I have suffered on and off with this problem for 5 years.

Im the last few months i have found a direct link for me to this pain after exhausting and analyzing all my patterns, and i would like to share it with you.

However it is a fairly graphic explanation and i hope it does not offend anybody. But we have to be serious about this problem and analyze all aspects so it is important to bring this up. I have found a direct link that no-one has touched on yet. I believe it is a chemical thing.

Do not laugh. When i have had and orgasm (***) the nite before...the next morning there is the lower back pain, in crippling proportions. If i have had a "quiet" nite....i bounce out of bed.

I wander how many ppl on this forum are chronic masturbators. I think there is some chemical link to what your body goes thru when it expels semen to the back pain in question. Perhaps its the testosterone level drop in the body that causes the stiffness and pain. Perhaps its something else. But it is not about the act of "sex" or throwing your back out in the enthusiasm ! it is not a physical thing like that as in desparation i tried masturbating without really moving and tensing as little as possible...and consistently the next morning...WHAM.

If i manage to have two orgasms in a single day (a good effort) then its like multiplication of the pain...i can barely get out of bed the next morning. This is my direct link. I would be very interested for ppl here to analyze their sexual patterns and find a link.

I have tried
1: new harder bed... perhaps 10% improvement in the morning (maybe its in my head just to justify the expense i incurred...but i do feel less pain lying on my stiff couch)
2:/ Chiropractor massage....perhaps 10% improvement. Certainly not worse.
3:/ Computer posture change...maybe 5% improvement.
3:/ Diet...not sure on that one.
4:/ Blood tests, X rays, etc. Nothing. Doc rekkons its "in my head".
etc

so the bottom line is...after sex with my fiance...i sleep on the couch the rest of the nite so my back is not killing me the next morning. Not a good scenario...she cracks it at me and tells me i have intimacy issues, am not over my ex-girlfriend etc ...i try telling her thats all rubbish its about my back ...but u can imagine how well in reality that one is believed.

Im going to try magnesium. Also i have heard that the product "Silicea" that you drink is good for bone and cartilage maintenance. Might try that too.

I would like to hear other ppls self anaysis on this subject

All the best,
glen.

[hurting17]

You are right that most people probably don't want to examine the orgasm theory but if you suffer with this chronic pain--you welcome any theory. One thing i have noticed is the RELIEF of pain directly following an orgasm which was interesting in itself and allowed me to get two more hours of sleep this morning. I was extremely aware of the pain until right after i had an orgasm. Oddly enough though--my pain seems to be worse today and has lasted longer during the day than normal. Usually, like most of the others who have posted, the pain subsides soon after i take my morning shower and have moved around for about 30 minutes. I am female by the way so it could still be hormone related but perhaps estrogen rather than testosterone. ??? Who knows, i just want to find a solution. I think the most promising entries came from Mike 1105 regarding the pressure points. Many people who posted seemed to get good results following his advice. It's worth a shot. Thanks for being brave enough to point out the orgasm theory--as i said. Any theory is worth exploring when you suffer from chronic pain.

[p1ckle]

I've suffered with the same symptoms for the last 4 years.  After going to see a physio to ease some muscle tightness below my shoulders I suffered from a painful cramping sensation a few days later.  Its the left side of my lumbar spine.  During the day I'm fine, from 5am I'm wriggling round the bed desperate to stay a asleep and trying to find a comfortable position but nothing works.  As soon as I stand up i'm fine.

I've had 9 months of physio in the past and back xrays which show no more than mild wear and tear.  I was sent to a gym for 3 months to strenghen my core muscles but there was no improvement.  I practice yoga once a week and swim but nothing really helps.  I would say though that I have always had dreadful posture with very rounded shoulders and I slouch.  Despite recent improvements to this it may be too late to prevent the back pain.

For anyone investigating the immune system, it may help to know that I have crohns disease which means my immune system is fighting my intestine which is continuously inflammed.  Maybe they could be linked!?   I'll certainly be mentioning to my specialist in April.  I'll let you know if he's heard of this before.

stats: 30 years old, 5'8" 150lb

Good luck everyone

[Xravisn]

After reading all these posts, I feel fortunate to only have neck and shoulder pain.  I've had both upper and lower back pain and I would much rather have upper pain than lower.  Lower back and hip pain just leaves you feeling like you dont want to do ANYTHING.  I feel for all of you and hope each of you can find some relief.  I hate those times i wake up in such pain that i cant go back to sleep and to have to go thru that every night would be horrendous.  You hear it over and over, but I'll say it again, be careful lifting, always bend at the knees, ask for help, just avoid it if at all possible.  Take care of your back, you only get one.  

[Rena705]

The following is the post I made before I saw the previous posts about this same problem!  It would seem to me that someone (i.e. a doctor) might have looked into this further since it seems that there are so many of us that suffer with this!  Sleep is important especially when we also have a chronic illness like MS and this needs to be addressed by a professional.  

I have been diagnosed with MS, Asthma and Chronic Bronchitis.  I have been suffering from pain in my upper back for some time now.  I only have it when I wake up in the morning and it forces me to get out of bed due to the excrutiating pain.  I have a hard time rolling over due to this pain and once I am awake I have to get up to get relief...there is no chance that I can go back to sleep because of the pain.  Once I arise, within minutes the pain dissipates and I have no problem with it for the rest of the day!  Then I go back to bed at night and wake up every single morning with this pain.  Does anyone have any ideas as to what this could be?  Any help would be much appreciated!

I hope to be able to do more info seeking on this problem and if I come up with anything of value I will be sure to share!

Rena705

[aliess]

It doesn't seem like there have been any solutions out there.  It's frustrating to see that my symptoms are identical to so many, yet there hasn't been anything in particular to cure this.  What is this site for besides everyone sharing the same stories.  Has any administrators on this Medhelp site answered any of your problems?

[solidether]

I am amazed to find this thread and I feel sorry for everyone experiencing the same problems as I do.

It seems, there isn't really a clear diagnosis for this either. Could it be some psychological problems? Personally, I would deny this as I am actually feeling quite comfortable with my life at the moment (perhaps that's the problem...).

Has anyone had experience with going to the gym and building up some back-muscles? I haven't done much sport lately but a lot of desk-work and thought perhaps this could be a reason.

[aliess]

The only way I have been able to treat it is seeing a GOOD Chiro (one that preforms more than just cracking your back ie massage, acupuncture, adjustments, interferential (spelling?  similar to TENS unit but better).  I saw him twice a week for 3 weeks and sorted it out.  But I stress that if you don't go back every 4 weeks, it slowly comes back.
This in combination with strict back stretches and strengthening exercises (ie every day) seems to have helped me greatly, although not 100%, lets just say that I can sleep through the night.

I believe that most of our problems stem from what we do in our day to day lives.  I for one am a dentist, and the position that I sit in every day definitely would have to be the cause of my problems.  I have read others here having desk jobs, lifting etc - and I strongly feel there is a direct corelation with what we do and our symptoms

good luck everyone

[Linderlu]

My mid-back is quite similar to what I've read here.  So far there's no distinct diagnosis because my pain is "atypical".  It's in my mid spine, right shoulder, and right chest wall.  It has been going on for 3 months (and this is the 2nd time this has happened for so long) and I've taken hydrocodone, Mobic (NSAID pain reliever), Flexeril (muscle relaxant) and now a steroid.  I'm pretty desperate, I got up at 2:30 am today.  No way I lay makes it better.  The pain is pretty bad during the day, and unbearable at night.

The orthopedic Dr sent me to my regular Doc who now has sent me to PT.  Testing showed my shoulder muscles are weak (I am a 41 year old female).  I was told this is the main reason for pain in this area.  Basically the muscles are too weak to hold up a very heavy area such as this.  I'm doing numerous exercises now, and will be buying a new bed today.  I was told a medium bed, or a firm with pillow top.  He said bed's lose their ability to support after 5 years-and my bed is older than that.

Good luck to all of you, I can completely relate.  I'm desperate and depressed and it is literally affecting everything I do.  It started out that the pain was just when I was standing, I could lay down for relief.  Now it's all the time but worse when I lay down.  I feel like crying when it's time for bed because I know what's coming--and I start nodding off during the day and can't concentrate because I'm so tired.

[mh244]

My boyfriend has this EXACT problem, with the localized back pain near his spine just when he wakes up, and only before getting up and walking around. After reading message boards like this where many, many people are sharing the same problem, we tried a couple of the suggestions. Here is what's worked for him so far:

1) Sleeping on his back, on our soft couch, with a pillow behind his neck/shoulders and a  pillow under his legs
2) Doing a combo of taking 100% daily dose of magnesium, working out his back and chest at the gym, getting more vitamin D via the sun, and getting a 5min back massage in that exact spot, before he goes to bed.

He wakes up practically pain-free now! Try it and good luck to all of you!

[ccl]

I have this problem too... mine started after I had abdominal hysterectomy and began my exercise/ab strengthening back.  I am totally FINE during the day, but at night I wake up in excruciating pain.  I am convinced this has something to do with working my abs too hard, too soon after surgery.  Oftentimes, when you have a muscle group that is hurting, it is the opposing muscles (abs, in this case) that are tight.  Stretching the back doesn't help because it is actually overstreched.  

This has helped me:  Carefully get onto all fours, you can even do this on the bed.  Make a cat back (humped up) , then stretch your chest/head out curving the back.  This, done properly, stretches your upper abdominal muscles.  If you're like me, you find that wow, those are REALLY tight.  This will allow your back muscles to relax.  This is kinda similar to a bow (as in a bow and arrow).  

Also, lack of quality sleep can set this all off.  Getting some kind of strong pain med, just for a few nights, can help you get restorative sleep.  A couple of nites of restorative sleep can make the world of difference.  

I also agree with another poster about posture being a major trigger.