5 yr old with bipolar disorder ????

[4kidsmom]

My 5 yr old son was just diagnosed with pediatric bipolar disorder, which is not too far fetched.  He is adopted and his birth mother was diagnosed with BP around the age of 10.  I have 3 other children and have NEVER experienced behavior problems like the ones we are going thru now.  We have had our youngest son for 3 1/2 yrs and in the beginning his behavior was pretty bad at home(very oppositional and defiant), but has gotten some better with time.  I guess my question is this... If his behavior and mood swings are fairly mild at home, but EXTREMELY violent and aggressive at school, do you think that the diagnosis is correct?  I know that there are no definitive tests to prove one way or another, and I guess I was releived that he was not just behaving badly because he wanted to, over the last few months his behavior at school has escalated.  He has been in trouble daily at school and it does not matter how he is disciplined at home, the behavior at school gets worse.  He has been suspended from the bus now for 3 days and has been in in-school suspension about 10 days so far this year, and in the past 2 weeks he has been suspended for 1 day each on 2 different occasions.  It seems everything that I read says that he will behave better at school and the drs office, but will be more apt to have outbursts and tantrums at home.  

[monkeyc]

Sadly younger and younger diagnosis are becoming more comong but the question here is has he been diagnosed by a psychiatrist.

If not you need that confirmation.  Younger children can act out for many reasons and the race to ascribe a medical tag can brand them and see them on medication for a long time for no reason.  Outbursts and Tantrums dont neccesarily mean bipolar.

[4kidsmom]

We saw a psychiatrist last Friday for the first time, and yes according to his symtoms and all of his information from school she said he had classic traits of pediatric bipolar disorder.  I guess I am just second guessing... :-( .  His outbursts and tantrums are like nothing I have ever experienced.  I thought maybe the school was exaggerating, but I went to his school daily last week and on Wednesday I was there 3 times in 1 day.  What I witnessed was outrageous, he used to tantrum at home similar, but not nearly as violent and long-lasting.  He has began to shove furniture around at school, he is hitting, biting, and kicking.  He threats the teachers and principals, and basically anyone in an authority position.  At home now he will pitch little fits, and be defiant and oppositional, but still not like at school.  Is this because home is his "comfort zone?"  At school it only takes them telling him "no" to set him off.... He has only been able to stay in class for about 15 min at a time this last few days.  The counselor at school even seems puzzled, she said his rages have gotten closer together and last longer and nothing seems to stop them.  The Dr started him on a medication on Friday.  I have always thought that I didnt want to medicate my children, but now I am praying that this helps.  If not, I dont know where to go from here...

[freebird227]

My doctor says that you can not diagnosis Bi-Polar until adolence. You sound well abreast of things and very pro-active. Some other stuff you night want to look at is Oppositional  Defiance--Asburgers Autisum  Keep in touch and let us know how things are going for your son and the rest of the family

[monkeyc]

From my side I have never heard of paediatric bipolar in children this young until just recently and outside of the US the medical community is very very skeptical that it occurs in children under 10, there's little empirical evidence and its seems interesting that the diagnosis is only happening in the USA although now is slowly starting to occur other places as it becomes a vogue of the day - much the same as how ADHD exploded when ritalin came along to treat it...

Most of the behvaiours that are being diagnosed as bipolar in young children also fall into aspergers, anxiety disorders, emotional issues, ADHD and a variety of other problems not to mention normal childhood and this is what worries a lot of people - its also of concern that you have a medical system that actively profits from diangosing and prescribing children thus encouraging new diagnoses to generate income and drug sales - this is often unconcious in that many doctors do not realise its the major drug companies funding research studies.

What bothers me is sutff like CABF - look at bpkids where they pull the wide net and claim a lot of ADHD kids are probably bipolar (not neccesarily true - not even 10% of ADHD children become Bipolar adults) and then talk about the criteria in DSM-IV being hard to apply to kids so they rewrite the criteria to suit their own uses.  They may be onto something but when someone talks about changing the criteria and tries to tell me that infants can manifest a disease which until now has never been seen under 10 I tend to want some actual evidence - I have seen mothers being told their 3 year old was bipolar because they threw a tantrum when being told no.  Kids throw tantrums its not a mental illness.

Rage can be a component of the disease but I see not mood swings in the opposite direction in your description and no mania like symptoms - no violence is not manic despite the word and I dont see you mentioning withdrawn or depressive states in your description

Does he know he is adopted?  I see some serious acting out here and its got to be coming from something which is eating at him - anger and rage are emotional in nature and in a young child almost always indicate emotional issues or trauma.

I personally disagree strongly with medicating a child this young - yes it works but often thats because of the drugs more than the disease.  Before I medicated my child I would want a second opinion and to try all other avenues - anything they give a 5 year old will come with side effects and those can be terrible in adults let alone kids.

I wish you luck and hope it works out.

[Candngfu]

I am sorry but the behavior you describe does not indicate a bipolar child.  Your child is very young and despite the family hx it is in my opinion inappropriate to give your child such a label.  Worse would be to start the child on medication.  Bipolar sx for even rapid cyclists are not as labile as your son.  Triggering events occu which can then trigger other reactive events.  My point is that it is a cycle, it is traceable and with time you can come to identify it as such and then make choices to try and stop or mitigate outcomes.  Then again everything in life in on a continuum in terms of severity and degree.  Where your son falls on the continuum if he is bipolar will make that more clear.  I have seen bipolar people who were unable to care for themselves who were a danger to self and others.  At the other end of the spectrum you have hundreds of successful people who are also bipolar.

The following individuals have stated publicly that they are bipolar:

    * Robert Boorstin, writer, special assistant to Pres. Clinton
    * Rosemary Clooney, singer
    * **** Cavett, writer, media personality
    * Kitty Dukakis, former First Lady of Massachusetts
    * Patty Duke (Anna Pearce), actor, writer
    * Connie Francis, actor, musician
    * Peter Gabriel, musician
    * Shecky Greene, comedian
    * Kristin Hersh, musician (Throwing Muses)
    * Peter Nolan Lawrence, writer
    * Bill Lichtenstein, producer (TV & radio)
    * Kristy McNichols, actor
    * Kate Millett, writer
    * Spike Mulligan, comic actor and writer, Patron of the MFD
    * Murray Pezim
    * Charley Pride, musician
    * Axl Rose, musician
    * John Strugnell, Biblical scholar, Harvard
    * Ted Turner, entrepreneur, media giant (U.S.)
    * Jonathon Winters, comedian, actor, writer, artist
  

Anger and temper tantrums no matter how violent are not enough in them selves or even a large portion of the equation for such a label to be applied.  Does your son experience prolonged periods of mania and periods of depression lasting days maybe even weeks?  Does his appetite change dramatically, do you notice wt gain or loss, changes in his sleep or normal routine?  Just be careful and consider seeing more than one specialist before committing to a course of action.  Medication at 5 can cause irreparable harm with lifetime consequences.

Being bipolar is certainly not the end of the world and it is treatable.  Just be cautious with labels.  They will shape the way others (including yourself) and eventually your child will come to him, interact with him and respond to him.  Language like this can lead to a self fulfilling prophecy.    

Good luck

[carolina30]

A child of five cannot be bipolar.

[4kidsmom]

Sorry I am just now getting back... I guess I am looking for advice, or confirmation from someone other than his psychiatrist.   When it is not me being treated or medicated, it is my child(especially since he IS so young), it worries me because I dont know how he FEELS, only the behavior I am seeing, he is not able to completely explain to me his feelings.  For example, when I had to have my gall bladder out, it was "lets do this test, and yes it is your gall bladder and we need to do surgery."  Now with him, it is more "what behavior is he exhibiting? ...How often? ...What triggers it?... When does it happen?...etc"  and although this shows patterns, I worry that there is so much room for error.  
     He often goes into "stares" and looks like he has lost his best friend.  He gets very whiney, and this can last for anywhere from 10 mins to hours.  He is very undecisive, for example something as simple as picking which kind of sandwich he wants to eat, I will give him a choice of 2 kinds and he cant decide.... I have to wind up choosing for him eventually.  He talks to himself a lot, and mutters under his breath.  At times he gets up in the middle of the night and we dont realize it until the next morning.  He hates naps(they are in the middle of discontinuing those in his kindergarten class).  Mornings at our house are TERRIBLE! He is very hard to get going every morning.  Then he falls back asleep on the bus and the bus driver has to literally drag him off the bus.
    The tantrums that I describe are not your normal 5 yr old tantrums, just yesterday I received a call from his school to see if they could restrain him using the "bear hug technique" because he was trying to throw a computer monitor to the floor, he had already thrown files off of a teachers desk, pulled things off of their walls, and was just getting out of  control and trying to destroy the rooms.  He was sent to the principals office and he does the same things there.  He is very disrespectful to the teachers and anyone in authority.  He has made threats to them and the other students, and he has been physically violent to a couple of the students.  They (school officials and counselors) have just about tried everything that they know to do.
  He is being evaluated now at school.  I dont know what they will come up with because this is not a matter of his intelligence, he is very smart.  He is also wise and extremely manipulative,  it seems beyond his age, I have often joked that he is an old man trapped in a 5 yr old body!

[TRENDIES]

WOW, IT IS DIFFICULT TO BE A MOM OF 4, I KNOW BECAUSE I AM.. LET ALONE TO A CHILD WHO IS VERY CHALLANGING.. I HAVE BIPOLAR AND SO FAR JUST ONE OF MY 4 CHILDREN HAVE IT.. CHRISTOPHER (AGE 10) WAS FIRST DIAGNOISED WITH ADHD.. THEN SHORTLY AFTER WITH BIPOLAR.. HE WAS IN THERAPY AND ANGER MANAGEMENT.. HE WAS ALSO HOME SCHOOLED UNTIL HIS BEHAVIOR WAS APPORPRIATE FOR SCHOOL.. WE HAVE NOT MEDICATED HIM AS YET, ALTHOUGH THERE HAVE BEEN MANY TIMES WE THOUGHT ABOUT IT.. I'M SURE ONE DAY HE WILL HAVE TO BE.. HE'S UP HE'S DOWN, SOMETIMES IT SEEMS LIKE WE HAVE SPEED DEMON IN THE HOME..LOL..HE IS VERY LOVING, FUN AND SMART.. HE IS ALSO MEAN, NEGATIVE AND VERY DIFFICULT.. HE CAN BE ANGRY TO THE EXTREME, DISTRUCTIVE AND OUT OF CONTROL. WE TALK, WE TALK ALOT ABOUT EVERYTHING.. MYSELF , HIS DAD AND MY CURRENT HUSBAND AND THIS HELPS ALOT.. THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES WE HAD TO HOLD HIM DOWN BECAUSE HE HAS GOTTON THAT OUT OF CONTROL.. HOWEVER, NOT OFTEN NOW.. DISPITE ALL THAT HE IS AND CAN BE.. TO ME HE IS A WONDERFUL SOUL AND I JUST LOVE HIM SO VERY MUCH.. HE MAKES ME LAUGH AND CRY. HE IS NOW 15 AND I AM GLAD I HAVE BIPOLAR SO THAT I CAN HELP HIM THROUGH IT.. SO DON'T LOSE HOPE.. THERAPY, ANGER MANAGEMENT, MAYBE SOME HOME SCHOOL(IF YOUR ABLE) SHOW HIM LOTS OF LOVE AND TALK TO HIM ALOT.. ALSO  TELL HIM THE TRUTH AND ANSWER HIS QUESTIONS.. ASK HIM HOW YOU CAN HELP HIM.. HE MAY COME UP WITH GREAT WAYS TO HELP HIM.. CHRISTOPHER IS WHO CAME UP WITH HOME SCHOOL AND IT REALLY HELPED..

[4kidsmom]

Thank you so much for your comment.  It is hard with 4 children (3boys and 1 girl).  At the current time I cannot homeschool, with all of the kids well I dont have to tell you, financially it is Super hard, especially now.  I work full time as a barber and my husband is a truck driver, but thankfully he is home every night.  It takes both of our jobs just to meet our financial BURDENS.  But that is a whole other story...lol.
   It is so good to hear someone speak about bipolar as if it is not the end of the world.  I know I am just at the beginning of our journey.  I am feeling alot of pressure from all directions... the school, his birth grandmother, my family, my co-worker... everyone.  Some are pushing one way and some another.  I was so glad to find somewhere to vent and ask questions and hope that I would not be judged or put down.  As a young child my Mama told me never to talk about other peoples children(the way they act etc) because you dont have children yet and you dont know how they will turn out!  Now I feel the stares of other people in the store or at the school, and church and you know nothing gets under your skin like someone talking about your child... I want to tell them what my Mama told me!!!  But he is a wonderful smart and loving child.  I love him, I just dont like his actions and maybe at that moment they are not seeing the child just his actions.
     As I started saying at the beginning of this comment, I just wondered if anyone had the same experience as me ... as far as at home, his behavior is not nearly as disrespectful and destructive etc as it is at school???  I just want so badly to do the right thing by him, I didnt take him to the psychiatrist to "label" him, I just went because we have tried all other avenues within our means and nothing has worked.  We have promised him the moon and rewarded good behavior and only punished the worst behavior but lately nothing works.  My worst fear is that he will get worse as he gets older and then things will be out of our control and he will be sent to juvenile or worse...
I am not sure I agree with the diagnosis yet... I guess I still want that definite test???

[dudley67]

My son had extreme behavior problems at age 2-5 and I honestly thought he was bi-polar.  He could be such a loving kid and then fly into rages that seemed to come from no where.  We also saw much better behavior at home than they saw at school.  He went through 2 baby sitters and 3 day care/preschools because no one could handle him. He had been diagnosed as ADHD and oppositional defiant but none of the treatments they offered, including medication, really helped him. I broke down and took him to a psychiatrist who was able to identify right away that he actually had Asperger's Syndrome, a form of Autism.  He has been in regular and gifted school programs since kindergarten and has done very well once we knew what we were dealing with and how to handle it. He started out with an IEP that was chapters long and now only has one to maintain his eligibility.  He doesn't need any accommodations at school. None of his teachers now can believe that he was ever a problem child.  The only ongoing behavior issues we have are bouts of surliness  that I am told are just a part of most kids lives at 13! :-)

[dudley67]

Forgot to mention, my son is also very smart.  His full scale IQ is in the 130's with verbal IQ near 150.   Kid's with Asperger's often have big differences between verbal and performance IQ.  My son tested as a freshman college level reader at the end of third grade but still has horrible handwriting and won't do spatial tasks like puzzles.  The problems with school versus home, for my son, had to do mostly with sensory overstimulation, lack of predictability and low tolerance for frustration.  He needed a lot of structure and routine with lots of time and effort for transitions to get him under control.  Ask lots of questions about what is going on before his behavior gets bad.  Where they transitioning from one thing to another?  Does he tend to get upset about doing or not doing a certain activity of type of activity? What is it that they are telling him he can't do?   What I learned with my son is that there is usually a pattern to behavior problems but you have to look really carefully to find it.  

[Rose888]

My grandaughter just turned 5 and was diagnosed at 3 1/2 yrs.old. My son and the mother were not married....the mother also has bi-polar disorder. We believe that the trauma of her mother taking her to another state when she was 3 and using parental alienation against my son...is what brought on the early diagnosis. He has 2 other children with her and so far neither one of them are exhibiting behavioral problems. My grandaughter is also a very bright and loving child. My son and I discussed taking her off her meds to see if she really was bi-polar or just mirroring how her mother acted. She was off her meds for 10 days and the change in her behavior was astonishing! We truly do believe that she has bi-polar disorder. She is on depakote and risperdale, plus takes hydroxine at bedtime to help her sleep.We hate the fact that she has to take meds for the rest of her life...but there are far worse things she could have. The main thing we had to watch while she was off her meds...was, that she didn't hurt herself or harm the other children.The mood swings were horrible! When she is on her meds, she is loving, obedient and caring...but off her meds...she was angry, defiant and arguementative. About the first 4 days she seemed fine(off her meds) and then each day was increasingly worse. We kept her home from preschool 1 day, because the day before she got angry at her teacher, and we could see that it was escalating. On her meds, she has more control. I do something with her that you might want to try. Her name is Rheanna Lynn...and we call her just by, Rheanna. I tell her when she hears me say her full name "Rheanna LYNN" she is to take a deep breath, let it out slowly and count to 10 and let the anger go. The main thing with her..is it's hard for her to control her emotions. When she is having an episode she says mean, hateful things to anyone and everyone. She doesn't mean them and will often apologize after 10 minutes or so.She knows what she is saying is wrong, but she can't seem to stop it at the time.We also have a problem with lying...which I have read can also go along with bi-polar disorder. That's not to say that everyone who is bi-polar, lies. But, it was one of her mother's more serious issues which may or may not be, learned behavior. She will not admit to lying right away...but given some time..she will admit it and apologize. Just like having bi-polar disorder is a rollercoaster for those diagnosed...so is it for the rest of the family. We sometimes find ourselves treading very lightly around Rheanna. But, that being said, we cannot allow her behavior to go unrecognized or unpunished. That is not fair to her or the rest of them. Please know that you are in our thoughts and prayers. And please don't ignore the fact, that altho' we don't want them on medication, that it is the one way that they can lead happy productive lives. You need that and so does he.

[PenelopeAnn]

Since the child's behavior changes so much at school, I would start looking at what is going on at school. Tried another class? Tried another school?

Children have very little words to express themselves and sometimes there are things they won't mention out of embarrassment or fear. Sometimes it is a situation causing the behavior and sometimes there is a problem, but which one is it? For example, even as a very young child I suffered from social anxiety. At school, the teachers loved me because I was so quiet and well behaved, completely unaware that what I really was was frozen with fear. My mother feared I was retarded or autistic and rushed me to the doctor. No one new that my quietness had to do with a fear I had no words to describe. That is just an example.

Kids and bipolar. Don't be too quick with labels and treatments. Does he go to a qualified child psychologist to help with his behavior problems? Make certain you have tried everything else and ALWAYS get a second professional opinion. Personally, looking back, I can say that I was showing symptoms of a mood disorder by first grade. I was diagnosed with depression - wrongly - at 15. It wasn't until I was 27 that I got the right diagnosis. Considering the meds available when I was a kid, I would rather have suffered with the symptoms. If I had had some therapy, I probably would have benefited.

[therese83]

He is probably very bright and not challenged enough in school.  Get him fully checked for intelligence + he may have special needs in the good way that he needs some kind of 'extension work' or accelerated programme?  Just a thought.

Find out what works with your son and instruct the school on how to treat him..

Somehow he has lost confidence in the school and the behaviour is an extreme reaction I know, but be carefull before you give him medication.
My son is doing great now heading for University,aged 17 a great boy. I avoided medication at all stages.  His cousin who took medication very young (age 4) never learnt to control his own behaviour or to understand himself.  Now my son was extreme and at one stage kicked his foot through a glass door over a small disagreement and laccerated his foot.

It can be hard, but you can get there and I would think very carefully about the road you will go down.  Can you get help from a behaviour modification expert?  There is also good info on the net.

eg. Howard Glasser "transforming the difficult child"  there are many tips and tricks out there.

Good luck.