What Is Your Background?

[HoneyNut]

I am just wondering if people have anything that stands out in their mind that might have affected them developmentally that could be attributed to "becoming" bipolar.  Please do not tell me about genetics and this being a family condition... I understand that; however, I also feel that certain things (environmentally) in my life aided in the development of me being bipolar.  Maybe this is just me... I am also adopted so I have no biological family to base anything off either.

I am also curious if anyone struggles with their speech, and forming coherent sentences.  This may sound like word salad, but I have been told it is not from my psychiatrist, and instead it is just because of my bipolar... and that my mind is just easily jumbled.  I often feel dumb, and probably sound dumb to others... but in high school I was able to pull mostly straight As, and was able to graduate college within four years, even when I changed my major three times, and was struggling with medications; so I know I'm not dumb per se, but it certainly does not come across that way to others most of the time.

I am just hoping there are people who can relate, or have stories to tell (because I have a full closet of stories that I feel helped contributed to my bipolar, but I'm not looking for pity, or to create an excuse)...

[HoneyNut]

You bring up a great point of not dwelling on the past -- it's something I struggle with everyday.  However, this post wasn't meant to do that, but merely see how others felt about the topic.  It seems there is an overwhelming response on the genetics side.  So while there is that, I still can't completely let go in my belief that the environment played a huge role for me.  It was one of the main reasons I wanted to get other people's perspective on the topic.  It's also a great way for others to inadvertently share their story, if they so choose.  There is obviously a pattern of the environment playing a factor in each of our stories, and with that, we can also see the level of resiliency we all have.

Wishing you the best in the rest of your schooling,

ʚ- HoᴖeyNᴗt

[amanda6532]

I had an early onset of bp that was triggered because my father was very aggressive with my mother and his children. I tried to end my own life from the drepression at the age of 8. My pshyciatrist says that it seems to her, based on the way I talk about him, that he is bipolar as well. My brother abused me and my other two sisters sexually. Its a little bit of both I guess. There is the the genetic part of it and then there is the environment part. But then again, I'll never know that if my father and brother had never been around would my brain still work the way it does. One of  my sisters said her counselor said that he thinks that she may have bipolar disorder as well. I don't think it really matters how it got there. The goal should be to treat it and try to move on. Thats at least what I'm trying to do. It's best not to dwell on the what ifs and other stuff that you can't change.
As for the problems with the speech. I do that too. I got A's in school and am in college finishing out my 2nd year. My words get confused and I forget what I was going to say or  how I was going to say it. Its something I am also trying to work on.

[heyjude1]

That is something we will never know, I mean if we had not been abused as a child, but my parents were not all that bad, my Dad suffered from MI too and had a rough childhood.  I'm sure the tramatic events have probably made my genetic predispositon worse but hey, I guess you just live with the cross you have been given.  

Medical science has discovered new medications, different types of therapies every day.  I can remember as a child seeing my dad after he had shock treatments, coming home, totally out of it.  We had to stay outside for days and had to tiptoe if we came iin the house at night go to bed.  ECT is so much gentle compared to the shock treatments in the 50's.  He lived on valium for over 40 yrs...abusing them, not knowing what was going on.   You know, everything is so different now, I wish they had the help and medications back then to have helped him.  But my point is perhaps as the years pass we will be able to control our BP better.  There is always hope and that is something we can never give up.

[HoneyNut]

Jade59, I think that you make a very good point, in that we can be very good actors; however, I find that I tend to be more "open" and "free" with the people closest to me.

Rogelio, with that being said, I hope your wife is able to come around to the notion that she may not know you as well as she thought.

HeyJude1, Bernie40, Xila31, I appreciate your guys' responses.  It just makes me wish even more that I knew my family history.  Such is life.  Have any of you read a good book/journal/article that would further support your argument that you can suggest?

Thanks again everyone!  I'm really enjoying reading all your responses.

ʚ- HoᴖeyNᴗt

[Jade59]

Bernie...yes, absolutely, I find keeping appts difficult.  I'll be having a good week and will make appts and I do try to make say, a hair appt, for that very day or at least the next because any longer than that and I may not feel well enough to go.  The most difficult appts to keep are seeing my PCP every six months because you have to make an appt so far in advance and who knows how I'll feel next month, you know?

Rogelio...I know I've mentioned this before, but I just don't think your wife knows how well you hid things.  When it comes to being around others, even our spouses, we can be the very best actor/actresses in the world.  

I've never been officially dx'd, but reading this forum for so long now, I am clearly bipolar.  I did have a therapist who thought I was BPD though.  I have a felt "odd" since I can remember and I believe it's genetic, but growing up with molestation, physical and mental abuse really made me who I am today.  I've oftened wondered how I might be if I had different parents.  Parents who were empathetic and able to work with and understand my sensitivities even as a very small child.  

[rogelio63]

He died in 2004.  I didn't get diagnosed till April 2009.  My wife is still in denial.  She says how could we have been married this long and all of the sudden this happens.  I don't know, I just don't know, but it did.

[Xila31]

For me, I think it is genetic. I say this with the knowledge that my cousin has schizophrenia and bipolar and schizophrenia are in similar families of disorders. My father has never been diagnosed with anything, but he had mood swings. Lots of anger. Depression for sure. But he had "reasons" for these things such as he had diabetes (which does cause mood fluctuations,) or when my mom died it was grief.

My mom, what I remember of her, she would get this nervous habbit she had of she would shake her knees while sitting. People used to tell her she was weird for doing that. But now that I look at it I would guess she had anxiety. I wish she was alive so I could ask her. And, of course she was probalby depressed because she was sick with cancer for many years, but she fought it anyway.

And then there was me as a little girl. Always crying. Always afraid of people. Coming up with these strange "stories" about being an alien from another planet. Never being able to handle these giant feelings I had all the time and never being close to other kids. Always feeling outside, and beliving the only real friends I had were my toys. And then the kids became meaner and meaner. I would say for bipolar is genetic.

For my BPD, however; I think that is merely caused by my mother being ill my whole life. I mean, she was there trying the best she could, but she was in bed. Even with mom and dad I felt like an outsider. The kids at school were so mean to me, I didn't trust any teachers because they all thought I was a manipulator, when all I needed was someone to listen. I wasn't manipulating, just no one would help me even when I asked. (I guess asking for help is being a liar when you're a kid.) And then my mom died, and it was just me and my dad and I was home alone. And so, now here I am.

That's just my take on how I ended up this way.

[bernie40]

heyjude, my story is similar in that as I've got older stress has more of an impact and I can quickly spiral, although this is diminished now I'm on the medication I'm currently on.  With regard to work I also had to give up work and it looks unlikely that I'll return to work any time soon.  I have 4 children, 3 of them teenagers and that in itself obviously creates stressful situations (not that I'm complaining), however put work on top of that and I literally fall apart.  It makes me very frustrated because I actually enjoy working, I also enjoy being a mother but it seems I just can't do the two.

The other issue I have trouble with, even now, is being tied down to times, dates etc.  I can go a week maybe 2 weeks of really even mood but then there are times when my mood will fluctuate up and down throughout the day or I'll wake on a downer that could last half an hour or 24 hours.  I try and keep appointments (social or otherwise) to a minimum of about 2 or 3 a week as any more than that and I find myself stressing about it and then being unable to attend any of them.  Does anyone else have this?

[heyjude1]

In response to the Boderline Personality Disorder, I have no doubt I suffered from BPD due to enviroment as a child.  I have noticed that my BPD is not as prevelant now that I am older, however, my BP issues have seened to increase over the years.  I have read that the BP eases with age, however, I have not found that to be true with me.  Stress is a huge trigger for me.  As I have aged, my ability to handle stress is null; it throws me into episodes much easier than in the past. I have become unable to work due to the least little bit of stress and I end up on the  physc ward.  Sometimes I wonder how I have made it in this world for 57 yrs., I guess with the  grace of God and medication.

[heyjude1]

It is genetics with me too.  My father had MI and growing up in a house with a father with MI, rages, and at times physically abusive, it manifested my all ready predetermined genetic future.  I can look back now and see the signs that I had mental issues as a child; tourettes, horrible self esteem., depression.  As a child I would spend my days hidding in the crawl space under my neighbors house, hide in the top of a tree all day to look down on life but not participate in life. I know these were not normal "kids" behavior.  Life hasn't been all bad though, I've had a lot of good times too, but, I believe I was predisposed to  MI.  My children suffer from depression also.  Due to my own behaviors in life, I'm sure I have contributed to many of the enviromental aspects of their inherited MI. The cycle continues with MI...

[HoneyNut]

Regelio63, I can only imagine that when you're in the medical field it is a catch 22 working with family, but you made the best decision that you could have for your nephew at that time.  Were you immediately diagnosed with Bipolar after your traumatic event?  What did you decide for a career afterward?

Heidi, feel free to not have to answer, but at what age were you diagnosed with Bipolar?  It is a terrible feeling for one to suffer that kind of abuse and know no one is there -- I wouldn't wish that feeling on anyone.

Thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences and thoughts!

ʚ- HoᴖeyNᴗt

[HoneyNut]

Lindeelou, I appreciate every cent.  As I do not know my family history, I suppose it's difficult for me to completely "bow down" to the concept that Bipolar is genetic.  I've come to the conclusion that the precursor has to be there, but after that it really is up to your environment how you turn out.  Are you currently taking any medications?  Perhaps your therapist can help you retrain your brain when you get into one of those obsessive funks?  I know my therapist is suppose to help me learn how to redirect my thoughts.

Bernie40, no worries, perhaps us BPs have our own language -- it's my only guess, seeing as my thoughts and reasoning are lost on the world outside of this forum.  My reasoning also comes from my childhood, where I was on medication to help stabilize me; however, environmental factor after environmental factor continued to spiral me unstable.  It was almost like my Psychiatrist, back then, was just waiting for a new medication to come out, so we could stop cycling through the ones I already tried.  Probably a bit of an exaggeration, since I really don't recall much from that time period, but I know I've hit a wall with options as of now.  I am glad to hear that you're 80% stable. I have my days, where I probably feel close to that, but then I wait with baited breath as to when I should feel my stomach flop, because the roller coaster will be going down, and fast.

ʚ- HoᴖeyNᴗt

[blacksoul004]

i think enviorment did have alot to do with pushing my already exsisting condition over the egde. when i was younger my father was very abusive physical and mentaly. he was never acted like he cared and i had no one to back me up or support me. i believe those experiences have alot to do also with my exsisting Anxiety.

Heidi

[rogelio63]

I think that I always, (at least from my teen years) had milder elements of bipolar disorder.  I've also read that there are triggers that can make it worse or really accelerate it to the next "level".  For me it was a death in the family.  I was a Naturopathic physician.  My nephew got sick so my brother called me to take a look at him.  I did and said he needed to go to the hospital right away.  They took him to the hospital , diagnosed him with two space occupying tumors, had to do immediate surgery, and he died 2 days later.  Not my fault right?  He was the last patient I ever had.  I quit.  Decided to go to nursing school and where did they put me for my pediatric rounds where my nephew had died less than a year before,,right on the floor where he died.  I kind of lost it.  
Like I said, there wasn't anything I could've done, and I had symptoms of it as a teen, but I think that traumatic event is what pushed me over the edge.

[bernie40]

Hey nice to "see" you again :).  I think I understand what you're getting at with regards the whole environmental angle.  I agree with you completely that should we not have outside stressors (through childhood and into adulthood), such as bad upbringing, trauma, etc then our symptoms would be less.  I often think that if I lived in a perfect world with no stress then I would not need medication.  My history sort of shows this:  I "coped" without meds until 2006, around 36 years old.  I was then faced with losing 3 dear friends close together, my father had to have an operation, my boss was a bully, all in a short space of time - yep I crashed and burned and went on medication.  The rollercoaster of meds was horrible.  I then became fairly stable (so I thought), came off the meds, went back to work full-time, then I lost my gran, guess what ... I crashed and burned.  I've been on lithium now for just over a year and finally feel the most stable I can ever actually remember feeling.

So, yes I have a chemical imabalance called BP, were all those years unmedicated causing the kindling effect?  Was it inevitable that at some point I would get worse, would I have remained ok if I hadn't had so much going on in my life?  They are all interesting questions.  The answer I give to myself and one that I can accept is that I have BP, it's chemical but is definitely made worse by environmental factors so I take my meds and I do what I can to avoid triggers.  I am not 100% stable but I'd say around 80% and I can deal with that.

I don't know if any of that made any sense, lol.

I'm glad you're starting to see some improvement and really hope your journey back to stability continues.  Please feel free to pm me if you wish, I don't come on the site as often as I used to but I always check my mail.

[lindeelou]

My opinion is that our parents could have suffered from similar disorders, but they are from the school that you tough it out, don't go to the doctor unless you are physically sick.
My dad would sometimes lose his temper and throw things. He'd sometimes just sit in his chair and zone out watching TV, I believe he was unhappy and depressed. My mom has never driven a car, and I feel she has serious anxiety disorders, it's just that they were never addressed as a mental disorder... it was just "normal" for them to be this way.
I did have an aunt that was a diagnosed Schizophrenic and took shock therapy and was on serious (Mellaril) anti-psychotic drugs. This occurred after she has serious bouts of depression. So, I know it's in my family, it was just never diagnosed.
I don't know if this helps with your question. I was diagnosed late in life after years of self medication and self destructive behaviors. I do believe when my dog was hit and killed by a car in front of me, I broke down... seemed I couldn't get the movie of that out of my mind. Shopping sprees, two bankruptcies, broken relationships, and finally my therapist of 25 years told me "why, you are bipolar, isn't that clear?", It was a shock to me to find this out, but since then, I feel like I have a huge label stuck on my forehead.
All the medicines, loss of jobs... I work hard on it every day.
I wish I didn't have to obsess about it, since the diagnosis I have "acted" better unless I drink. OK, my 2 cents.

[HoneyNut]

I realize that this is an old post that I've neglected.  There really was some great convo going on here.  Sorry.

I wanted to update everyone (if anyone is still following this post).  I am still seeing my Psychiatrist; it got a bit rough when I was laid off, but I managed to pull through, and now have insurance again!  Currently I am on Ability, taking 2 mg twice a day, and 20-30 mg of Adderall.  I feel that this is a start, but I still have a ways to go.

Bernie40, I have found a new therapist, who did mention that I have traits of having a borderline personality disorder.  I brought it up to my Psychiatrist, and he said I could have traits of the disorder, but it doesn't mean I necessarily have it.  You have to *love* mental disorders since the lines can be heavily blurred as to what is what. I appreciate your continued responses to my posts on this thread. I am happy for you that you are able to live in the present.  It is actually something I talked with my therapist about last week, and something I have to work on during our sessions.  I am not happy nor content with the present, so I tend to live in the what-if future, and use the past as a way to try and explain preset situations.  I am wondering though, do you believe in a a higher being?  Why or why not?

I don't believe I was ever trying to discredit genetics.  I agree that environmental factors exacerbate mental issues.  The more environmental impact you have the more the chemicals become out of whack.  So in your argument, I already had a chemical imbalance, I won't disagree with that, but like anything, mental disorders can worsen if not treated.  My psychiatrist was telling me that a Cyclothymic can go to a Bipolar 2 to a Bipolar 1.  Which brings me to adults who have been misdiagnosed, or have gone without treatment for too long (thus prolonging their negative environmental exposure).  Perhaps it's a fruitless hope, but I do believe that if I had one lifeline available to me when I was a child, I might not be in such a predicament I am now.

The frustrating thing is that these things make sense to me, so whether I am unable to properly express myself, or I am even misunderstood in the Bipolar community I am not sure. (Not meant to be a self pity statement.)  It is frustrating.  Perhaps I am just beating a dead horse.

Twelvesgirl, I think you can work it out in the therapy.  I'm not saying that it will be the full cure you are looking for; however, I think therapy in combination with medication is needed for some Bipolars out there, who have more traumatic backgrounds that makes it more than just chemicals acting up in our brain. (That sentence is not meant to downplay any Bipolar suffering out there.)  All of the therapists I have gone to have done talk therapy with me (they never helped!).  My current therapist suggested we steer away from talk therapy, into something more (this gave me hope!).  What, I have no clue, but I intend to ask this coming week.  I hope I have something more to follow up with for you.  I've found that in the midst of my depression and numbness I really am angry.  Angry at a lot of people (including myself) and incidents.  I am hoping I can work them out in therapy, and start moving forward... away from my past that seems to only be holding me back from my full potential.  I hope you are in a good place today.

Whimpy2, thanks for responding.  I agree that there is a lot more variables now (in part due to technology) today than 40 years ago.  Thanks for adding that into the discussion.


ʚ- HoᴖeyNᴗt

[whimpy2]

I too have been successful in school however outside the structured building my bipolar gets more distracted, why, electronics everywhere sending messages, beeping etc.
Environment is I think a huge role preying on my bipolar, 40 years ago mental illness was less than now because the technology today is zapping at us. I am for science too
but this fits in that category. Glad you posted I feel the same way. Thanks

[bernie40]

I'm not surprised you feel so confused then.  Your child psych was correct in what he was saying because although changing your environment won't remove your BP it does help manage it to some degree.  Leaving you unmedicated was wrong though.  Still, I believe that we need to focus on the present.  I know stuff that happened in my past, I'm lucky that I've dealt with it and moved past it.  I concentrate only on the here and now.  

Medication, healthy diet, exercise (no I don't follow the last 2 ) routine and therapy.  Medication alone is not always enough especially in the early stages of acceptance.

You'll get plenty of advice on here.  Good luck.

[HoneyNut]

I think I also believe what I do, is because my childhood psychiatrist and therapist reassured me I should be fine without medication, when I went away to college.  They said getting out of the house, away from my mother, and the change of environment would be more beneficial than harmful... so I went without meds for two and a half years, until I realized I needed to reach out for help.

[HoneyNut]

It's okay, I appreciate your responses and apology, no offense was taken, but the clarification helped.  I am in a pretty deep funk right now, so I apologize as well.  I will look into "The Kindling Effect", and let you know what I think... it sounds like it will be a good read.

[Twelvesgirl]

I'm sorry, my meds arent working yet, thats my excuse and I'm sticking to it.....
:(

[Twelvesgirl]

Please don't feel bad, I know you will though. BP is chemical, we can google and maybe one doc in a million will say its not. It is a chemical issue and that is WHY we have to take medication for it, that is why my doctor tells me I have to take meds. I have knowingly left mine untreated for 6 years because I was in major denial and this most recent episode has been my worst. It even threw in a little paranoia which I've never had, I wouldn't go in my own basement, imagine explaining that to your 4 year old kids as their adult mother. I grew up in a home w/ both of my parents, 2 siblings, they taught me how to love, I had a great childhood, lived in a good neighborhood, etc. I had nightmares when I was little, I was scared all of the time, I started drinking at age 10, pot age 12. I would have overnights at my bestfriends house 2 doors down, whose parents "didn't know" we were drinking their liquor and smoking their pot. My parents never thought their little girl would do that because we weren't that family. I was different, why because my stupid brain made me that was. Depression finally  recognized age 14. BP not recognized until age 23. I had a good life but my brain wouldn't let me live it. I fully believe that it is chemical, and episodes are triggered by traumatic events, which are the envrionmental factors. I don't know if I've ever told you that before, but I just wanted you to know that I agree w/ you, and I wish I had something else to blame it on, I wish I could work it out in therapy, I want to get rid of, I hate it and I'm pissed off that I've had to live with this stupid thing in my head when my  environment wasn't bad to me. If it is the environment, the what the HELL is wrong w/ me??????????????????????????????

[bernie40]

Oh grief, just realised that last post probably sounded really abrupt! I think it's obvious that I feel quite strongly about the subject, lol.  

It really is worth looking up "The Kindling Effect" though, I think you'd find it very interesting.  In a nutshell it talks about how bad management of or the wrong meds or no treatment has a kindling effect on BP and the BP symptoms get worse with each "episode" or each "trauma".  I used to have one of the pages bookmarked but recently sorted through them all and no longer have it otherwise I'd post a link for you.

I think the kindling effect probably fits in with what you are trying to say about environmental factors but doesn't detract from the scientific fact that BP is chemical.

Ok, so hopefully I haven't offended you honeynut, I was tired and grumpy and therefore should have waited before responding on the previous post - we're all human :-s