please help me with info about 10 y/o bipolar?

[darlene38]

my son's dx since age5 was only adhd, and he did ok on stimulant meds, although he was still inattentive, at age 9, things started to change, he had to come off stimulants because he was saying he was hearing voices, aggressive, hallucinating (possibly), and had full body tics, which were serious...he had no clue he was just staring off into space at times, he started asking ? of why he was not normal like everyone else...mri was done and it was ok..physcological testing was done and reveiled that he also had a learning disorder called nld (nonverbal learning disorder) and anxiety. that's all i know so far...

as a baby ,he was very colicky and was always needing to be held, he was always overly clingy towards me, and had separation anxiety from a very early age, at times when he was younger he would always have these temper tantrums and like he would scream..as a baby he would not sleep on his own as he became older this didn't change as he started having nightmares all the time when sleeping, it appeared he was scared to sleep in his own room...although he always had a night light....

so now last summer off meds completely due to side effects? and was eating out of control after 3 weeks it does subside but not for long, and his behaviour was just aweful, he would laugh in my face when i tried to discipline him, his emotions are up and down like a roller coaster, his words towards people were just plain hurtful, had to monitor him closely around other children. my 19 y/o is also adhd but never had the behaviours to this extent as he was always more emotional, but i could always talk him down, he never treated me this way....so i really get adhd behaviours as i lived with it in my oldest son for many yrs, and he never had the issues of my youngest regarding stimulant meds, they helped him alot...

so now at age 10 yrs the doctor puts him on prozac 10mg but he is so tired he was falling asleep at school, and now getting into trouble with his eating, and begging others for their lunch, although he has 2 sandwiches and like 4 snacks in his own lunch and still at lunchtime he had nothing left, he was hurting other kids although it looked accidental according to school....or was it im not sure..so prozac appeared to high, he was brought down to 5mg and he seemed to be doing ok, i started noticing he was starting to hit others as i have seen this recently, and his anger at times is out of control. go back to md and his behaviour is unreal, md is just watching him...he then tells me to take him off prozac and wants him on 25mg zoloft, so i do this the first time he took it it seemed ok. i was giving it to him at 6pm cause the prozac made him so tired he couldn't do anything, and the md didn't say to take at am or pm. and some people do take in evening where i work.....

an example of his behaviours yesturday: were that he punched someone in the head for teasing him at his bus stop in the am, so i went to bus stop and explained that this was unacceptable and you don't hit people no matter what he seemed to calm himself down and he seemed ok. at school he was talking to himself which im noticing this at home now, like he is in his own little world ( he has in the past been telling these stories of things he can do and what he has done, like drive a car on his own etc...)...he comes home from school he is still ok according to him he had a good day, ( teacher has a different story, which i think is more likely), so regarding the incident in the am at bus stop i tell him his consequence is that he couldn't go outside to play in the snow....(northern ontario, canada), well this started at 3.40pm he was kicking the walls, calling me names, his anger was out of control, and he was breathing heavy and fast. he was doing flips off his bunkbed and out of this world hyper....you could just hear it in him...we would say im sorry one min to get his own way and as soon as i would say no you can't go outside, he would start again...he was laughing in my face, and calling me names that were seriously hurtful, to where i broke down in utter frustration and cried...anyway this lasted till 8.30pm , he had his zoloft only at 6pm, at about 8pm he started crying and at this point the anger started to subside and he was calming down, i held him in my arms till he feel asleep, then he slept well all night...

please help me with advice as i am alone in this, i do have a brother who is bipolar with phychotic tendencies (same parents- full blood) and i  am scared to death my son is developing this as well...WHAT DO I DO....im thinking i will bring him to hospital for them to see this...

im truley sorry for such a long post, i am really hoping that someone can relate to what im saying and have any suggestions as to what do i do now......

[LetaB]

  I think you have to do what you have suggested - take him to the hospital when he is in the middle of one of these episodes. Oh, please get some help! Right away! I am extremely concerned for your safety and for the welfare of your son. Do you have other children still at home? If so he is requiring all of your attention which is unhealthful and unkind to them - and for you. You can't possibly do this all on your own, Darlene. As he gets bigger his fits are becoming more violent. I'm surprised that his actions at school or at the bus stop hasn't gotten him expelled. At my childrens' school the police would have been involved. Isn't it terribly sad when your child is functional and intelligent enough to know on their own that there is something very wrong with him? My 12 year old has asked me the same thing, "Why am I so different from everyone else?" You need to try and find a suport group, Darlene - for YOUR sake. Does your son's school have a counselor or social worker? Get them on board. I hope you get the help you need. Please keep us (MedHelp) appraised of any changes in your situation. This network can really be a comfort when you are feeling overwhelmed and alone.

[hopelessmom]

Darlene,

Everything you described is like my life with my 11 year old.  It does sound to me (and I am no doctor...although I've done my share of research) that your son has a mood disorder.  My son had ADHD and mood disorder (defiance).  He is very touchy.  It takes very little to set him off.  He's always on the go, and eats like a pig.  You name a drug, and he's taken it.  He spent 2 weeks at a Mental Hospital at the age of 7 b/c he was so out of control.  He threatened me with a pair of garden sheers.  The look of evil in his eyes was terrifying.  The laughing in the face is so familar....it's almost like a dare isn't it.  I found that my son actually wants me to confront him.  He thrives off of that.  When I walk away, he gets angry, b/c he doesn't get to get the high he gets when I argues and fight with him.  It's like a nightmare from hell!

My son is now taking abilify (5mg) 3 times per day to help control his mood.  He took Strattera for years, b/c the stimulants made him manic.  The strattera was not working...even the max dosage, so he is now on vyvanse.  I think it helps with his focus, but he is still very argumentative, particularly at home.  At school, he likes to be the class clown, as well.  The eating...well, my son is the same.  He eats all his food, and then begs for others.

It's really embarrassing, isn't it.  It's like people look at me like 'there's that mother of that boy'.

Nobody knows until they walk in our shoes do they?

Please keep a log of what happens each day for about a couple of weeks.  In the meantime, make an appointment with a Child Psychiatrist.  I've had more luck with Psychiatrists than Psychologists.  Take this log.  Be sure to record any triggers, what he ate, how well he slept, etc...  

I wish you all the luck in the world, and hope and pray for both our boys the best in life!

[LetaB]

  I wish I knew of  suport group in my area for "The Socially Maligned Mothers"! My four children were all diagnosed with mental and emotional conditions and I have been shunned in my town. The school is patronizing to me. My kids come home and tell me that their friends parents have been talking dirt about me again....I wonder if I am developing paranoia when I walk out the door but this is what I have to face every day.

[darlene38]

omg it's like your talking about my son, the look my son gets in his eyes is pretty scary, its like he sees past you or something.  when you stated"I found that my son actually wants me to confront him.  He thrives off of that.  When I walk away, he gets angry, b/c he doesn't get to get the high he gets when I argues and fight with him.  It's like a nightmare from hell! " this is so my son, he is always trying to argue everything with me....my son's teacher says he is super silly and always laughing, one day she said he was alone in the classroom, he had a big smile and was laughing but he was alone , she thought it was strange, he even talks to himself in class out loud..she has a walkie talkie in class with her so when he needs to be removed from class, she uses it...out of the entire school of over 400 students my son is the only one who gets alot of time with educational assistants, he has a disabilities classroom to go to as well...he can't seem to be left alone with other children....he was originally just adhd and now school says he is the worst case of adhd they have seen in 8 years...my son gets alot of support at school thank god for that, other wise he would be permantly kicked out of school...i think he does have some kind of mood disorder, and he is DEFIANT ALWAYS if i say something, he has to talk back at times i can get through to him but alot more recently i can't ....this am he was talking to his shadow on the wall....i will be bringing him to the hospital either tonight or tomorrow if i hear him say he will hurt himself again, its like he is saying it to hurt me or something...but you never know it is not normal behaviour for a child of 10yrs...

i feel pretty hopeless myself right now, i need to get him the help he needs but no one is listening to me......my sister in law is a mental health worker and she will call me to talk tonight...

[alikat1205]

darlene

you need to get him evaulated and see a dr. right away.  my daughter exhibited many of these symptoms.  adhd is sometimes co-existent with bp, and stimulant meds for adhd trigger mania in children who are also bp.  his meds need to be re-evaluated immediately.  
and leta, you do need a support group.  there are several on line at yahoo groups and i have found that just hearing that other children do these same things, despite parenting, has gone a long way toward keeping me sane.  check it out.

[alikat1205]

darlene

if your son says he will hurt yourself, you ABSOLUTELY have to take it seriously, whether you think there is more to it or not.  my daughter said things for a while that i did not take seriously, until a new psych told me that my daughter was seriously suicidal, she just wasn't old enough to work out the details yet.  she was 11 at the time.  that was a wake up call.  

if your son threatens to hurt himself or anyone else, take him immediately to the nearest pediatcit psychiatric facility for evaluation, and he may be required to stay for a few days.  at best, you will have prevented him from taking action, gotten someone to re-evaluate his meds, and started a process toward stabilization.  at worst, you have given him the message, that any threat of harm will not be tolerated and will always be taken seriously.  

[darlene38]

i took all your advice....and i  did go to the hospital after 2 hours of manic episode, young doctor, fresh out of school...stated well if he is not safe in your care, we can put him in foster care, she even asked my son this, and of course he stated no way....this 2 hour episode was truly aweful, i have never seen my son hitting and kicking me before, and the name calling is not like him at all...thank you prozac then zoloft for that....now off meds completely and i did talk to a social worker last  night who said this is not adhd like behaviour, and has no intentions of taking him away from me, as this would destroy him completely and he told me last night he would of just ran away....my son off meds completely still is moody but at least it is manageable, and i can get through to him, this boy i saw last night was not my son , it's like he was looking through you, or like he was someone else, the things he was saying to me really really hurt, and i broke down called my sister and friend and they helped me calm him down, which basically consisted of having him ride it out in his room, but making sure he did not hurt himself.....he was so paranoid that he thought i was trying to hurt him but  i never touched him so he was trying to call 911...this was truly the worst night of my life...and to sit at the hospital for 4 hours with him afterwards just to hear what the md said, well all i can really do is increase his chronic meds" and i became angry at this point and said im not increasing his zoloft, my god did she want him to actually kill himself....

now taking time off work and just taking care of him, i know he will remember some of what happened but i don't think he was in control of himself last night, so today is a new day and i will start off by giving him a big hug...and telling him i really love him and we will try to work this out and get answers from md's and therapists who werent listening before, im sure they will sit up and take notice from now on......the social worker will remain, for now anyway, to help me out....but that's ok i have nothing to hide...

[alikat1205]

i am sorry - you found a very bad doctor.  did you go to the ER of a regular hospital? or a pediactric psych facility (which i highly recommend).  she was wrong to suggest foster care like that. and increasing meds is not "the only thing" she could have done.  zoloft sent my daughter into a manic state, and if he is reacting that way, it may be that increasing zoloft would make things worse.  what an idiot!  you really need to see a pediatric psych and take yourself to a psych facility next time.

[darlene38]

there is no facility like that where i live..and the only place i could go was the er at reg hospital....and it is his pediatrician medicating him, because his physciatrist live like 12 hours from me...its all done through telephysc , that is why so much issues....i took him off zoloft because for some reason stimulants and antidepressants are doing weird things to him......

[LetaB]

You know you see these posts on here all the time!!! Why is it that trained psychologists always think depression before bipolar? And even when they know it's bipolar they still prescribe antidepressants that are known to make psychotic symptoms much worse! I wonder if the continual misdiagnosis' isn't because the doctors, like the rest of society, put a stigma on our condition and only turn to it as a last resort....

[jeffsdad]

Darlene:

You are in a tough spot.  I've been there.  Our son was diagnosed BP at age 15 - but exhibited signs earlier.  We were lucky to find a good psch and hit on good meds.  But it was hit and miss for a while.  Also, a good therapist.

See if you can find a NAMI support group.  "National Alliance for the Mentally Ill".   They focus on education and support for families going through this.  NAMI CAN is the NAMI "Children and Adolesent (adolescent) Network".  Please contact them.

What worked for us?  Learning about the disease.  Learning how to discipline.  Not confusing typical adolesent (adolescent) behavor with the disease.  Some "tough love".  Probably tougher on the rest of the family than on Jeff.  Learn to protect yourself and talk with law enforcement so that they know your situation.  They should have some officers with special training.

It is hard not to get discouraged.  But our son is now in College and doing well.  Very responsible with his meds.  Getting a part time job during HS was very positive therapy for him.  

We know he's not cured.  But he has learned to live with the disease.  Please, please be strong for yourself and your son.

[alikat1205]

thanks jeffsdad, this is all very encouraging.  i am a few years behind you and thinking that we could get where you are is very encouraging.