I'll probably get some flack for this but I want to post it anyway.....since a cat of mine was dx'd with urinary crystals I've done alot of reading and found out alot of disturbing things about a dry food diet....ANY dry food even the high quality ones.
My cat has been on one of the best rated EVO which has NO grains therefore is low in carbs and high in protien....however it is STILL A DRY FOOD. the lack of moisture content is what leads to these urinary crystals and a host of other health problems.....also dry food is loaded with chemicals so it appeals to the pets, the fats become rancid with storage and mites grow on the kibbles...disgusting right!!
This (independent Vet) has written that even the poorest quality can foods are still better than the highest quality dry foods......yes this does include anything the Vet clinics will sell you for prescription diets.
everyone please read.
Opus is right. We understand that sometimes dry food is the only thing we ca afford. Better something than nothing. But for all of those who want to improve your pets’ health and CAN afford to do this, it is worth it. You may think that you cats are fine on dry food, but when you do read the facts and the truth behind dry food you will be speechless. Pets are family members, and they love us unconditionally. If making them happy is your desire, then start by feeding your little carnivore the right foods.
It's sad, but true, that vets usually don't tell us jack about hard food. Mine haven't and I've dealt w/ urine crystal, blockage, and kidney problems too many times to count. You'd think that they would've brought up problems w/ hard food then!!
HMMMMMM, maybe some of the vets own some stock in those pet food companies!
Like the vet I took Abby to when he had liver disease, who had his whole staff wearing Hill's T-Shirts. Yes, some of them are part of this.........monopoly. Others have great intentions. But unfortunately, veterinary schools, for the most part, only require students to take two nutrition courses. No more. So they really don't have a lot of knowledge on foods and diets. However, I will not let them off the hook, because they should know, with everything that has been going on, with all the illnesses and health problems related to food, and with all the studies performed by nutrition experts, that these foods are not good and are killing and harming our pets.
Prettykitty is right, these Vets do mean well they are just in the dark..they take little about nutrition than are bombarded with good selling techniques by their multimillion dollar suppliers....
Cats should by rights be fed a diet closest to their natural raw diet, Prettykitty knows all about that...if anyone is considering, can also read alot about this on the website I gave. Otherwise canned foods are the next best choice.
BTW my Nemo saga continues, since the ONLY food he'll eat(so far)other than his dry food is cooked chicken...thats what I'm feeding him...parboiled like the website suggests..and I'll cook a little less each time to gradually take him down to near raw...today I'm grinding up the chicken legs bone and all for calcium(hope he'll try) later if this works I'll add the other nutrients and vitamins he needs...one step at a time with him!....alot of care of course needs to be taken when feeding a raw or parboilded diet especially if its homemade...so if anyones considering please read up all you can....Oh I'm also giving him a few kibbles of his EVO, the catinfo site recommends this as the only one to be supplementing with...I'm happy I at least did that right!....cats needs a min. of 150 calories a day to thrive, EVO kibbles have 25 Calories per kibble..they are very high in protien and no filler carbs(grains) therefore all he needs are 6 or so kibbles a day to get his calorie requirements.
Opus...OMG you will be feeding Nemo partially cooked food? YAY!!!! Way to go honey. Our little carnivores deserve to be fed the right way. The bones will provide calcium....so that is excellent! Make sure to add salmon oil if you can. It's great for the coat and to prevent constipation. Probiotics and Digestive enzymes will help your little one's digestive system and will even improve it! With that food hon..............you will NEVER face that problem ever again....no more crystals.....a happy Nemo. Chicken naturally contains water so you won't have to worry about how much water he is getting with this diet.
Give that beautiful cat a kiss for me. Poor baby...
I'm still trying to convince Abby to eat his raw foods. Will have to start cooking it again. He seems to like that better. For now I'm just talking to them....really...I'm talking to my cats lol to get them to eat the food......just being patient and hoping I won't have to buy any more prescription food. I hope everything will go back to normal soon: PK's kitties eating raw food. *sigh*...
I've always fed my kitties a mix of Purina/Friskies dry n wet foods.
Vet in Ohio recommended "Science Diet," fur-pers picked out the SD and ate the Purina...guess they didn't sense the "health benefit."
Save for one anomaly (Dancer at 6 1/2, anaphylacsis), all my girls have made it beyond 16 years. They see the vet once a year, for the legally mandated rabies shot, even thought they do not come into contact with any other animals.
Pip...I grew up with 3 female cats who all lived to be 20 and older and were fed wet and dry food like yours. While all cats need the extra moisture benefit of canned food, I believe the crystal problem happens more in male cats and especially ones who are on dry food only. Jade had a tiny problem a year ago, but before us, she was fed only dry food for 5yrs and I'm sure crystals don't form overnight. She was prescribed the very expensive Hills, but wouldn't touch it. We've always fed her wet food along with the dry and after her "incident" I increased the wet food and she's been fine since (fingers crossed.)
obviously the wet/dry mix keeps your babies healthy...thats great...the trick is really to be sure they are getting the required amount of moisture and I guess with that combo they are!.
the Vet on the website mentioned particularly dislikes the HILL'S SCIENCE DIET for some reason, and appears most cats do too....must either be some missing or added ingredient that makes it unpleasant for them.
yeah those fur-pickers know what they want don't they!
margy try going back to the half and half mixture, if she ate if before she should accept this again with some patience....best of luck!
I still go with the natural, either raw or partially cooked meal for cats. Dry foods have ingredients, or combinations of ingredients that cats cannot digest and acquire absolutely no benefit from. Let’s see, will we ever see a cat in nature go to a corn field to eat the corn? Nop. Will we ever see a cat running towards a wheat or rice field to eat that? Nop. What is a cat’s natural diet? Mice, birds, lizards: Other animals.
So what if the dry food contains high quality ingredients and it is all heavenly? Still, the lack of water is inevitable. The cat does not get a good quality of life. We may think our cats are doing well on dry food, and they may be, in fact, healthy. But optimizing a pet’s health is what this post is about, so we can finally prevent unnecessary health problems. Right now………the healthy ones are MINORITY. The ones who never have any health related issue are, simply put, in very MARGINAL AMOUNTS.
Always remember that dry foods are convenient for us………………..not them. They deserve better than that, people.
I saw a guy run over a squirrel this morning. Guess he was too late for work when he was driving 50 mph on a 35 mph road and could not stop when he saw the poor thing crossing the street with food in its mouth. The poor animal was still alive and trying to get out of the road when I passed by just seconds later. I started shaking. Almost stopped my car, and for not stopping completely and going to that poor creature, I feel guilty. But my reasoning was: I’m pregnant, and that is a scared, wild animal. The unpredictability of the situation and my bebe made me keep going. But I was shocked and cried so, so much. I wanted to share this with you guys just in case you think I’m coming off too aggressive in my posts. I’m just really messed up today.
I have always fed my cats all 3 of them on wet and dry, they each have 1 bowl with 2 compartments, 1 side i put canned food and the other side i put dry food, they also have a big bowl of water that they share and a bowl of milk, i feed them morning, lunch and then about 6pm, am i doing it right because uve got me worried now about the dry food, i always thought a variety is good and dry food is good for there teeth thats why i put some dry out aswell! can someone let me know if im doing it right or wrong.
Hi Jax, the combo is okay, especially if the main intake is the wet, but all wet would really be best and more especially, it seems, if you have male cats. The crystals seem to form in male cats more than females, at least, that's been the experience here on the forum and what my vet told me, also. Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Just a tip, Jax...cats are lactose intolerant and milk will upset their tummy and possibly cause diarrhea. Just water would be best. There's a milk product made for cats that is lactose free that can be found at the market. Kitty is still getting the milk taste without the side effect of the lactose. I'm sorry, I don't remember the name of it, but it's on the pet aisle and is the size of a juice box.
Do check out the website above left by PrettyKitty. There's another website she listed on another thread that's loaded with great info, too. Here it is:
Dry food does not clean their teeth. I used to believe it as well. I fed one of my cats dry food throughout his entire childhood (or kitten hood) and when I took him to the vet last year he had tartar and needed a dental cleaning. Do not believe what they advertise because it isn’t true. They just want to sell.
On the other side, my other cat was raised on raw food only. The last time I took him to the vet, not too long ago (maybe last month) the vet was surprised at how clean his teeth were, his excellent shape and body weight, his whole demeanor and confidence and amazing health overall. They thrive on foods that have the right amounts of fat, protein, vitamins, minerals, and WATER. This cat does not need a dental cleaning because there is no tartar or anything….not even minor. He is almost 2 years. My other cat is almost 3 and already needs a dental cleaning, and that is the one who was fed dry food as a kitten.
I wonder what else they are going to come up with to make people believe dry foods are good for cats and dogs.
Jax, the combination isn’t bad. But if you can, make canned foods a priority and what they mostly eat. Even with a bowl full of clean water every day, a cat that is fed dry food only or mostly, will never consume the amount of water it really needs.
Opus’ cat had water available 24/7, and still came down with crystals. If you look at our archives, there should probably be more than 100 posts on cats with UTI………..all written by desperate, sad owners who thought dry food was good.
I feed my cat a grain free kibble, but after reading this thread I'm a little worried. My cat is a hunter and eats his catch.....I know this because he always leaves part of it on the door step...lol. I don't really like him to eat rodents and such because I'm afraid he will get worms, but he loves to hunt. Just so everyone knows we live away from the road which very few cars travel. Would him hunting and eating what he kills be enough moisture to keep him from having similar problems?
Great experienced answer about the teeth, PK. I wasn't sure how to address it. I can tell you this, though. Jade grew up on hard food the first 5yrs of her life and sure didn't do her teeth a bit of good since they were rotten and her breath was simply rancid when we got her. Her main food is the wet now and even though she had her teeth cleaned almost a yr ago, they still look good and her breath isn't bad at all.
bellasmomma...since you're feeding kitty though, I doubt he hunts enough to satisfy the moisture he needs. These are probably like little treats for him :) Why not switch to a grain free wet? Another thing. You might want to deworm kitty once a year since he's outside so much. Not only can he get worms from his "kills" but also swallowing just one live flea can cause worms so it's best give kitty a worm pill at least once a yr.
One of my fur babies also has urinary crystals and he was given science diet SD and CD from the vet. We did a little research and realized how horrible science diet is for cats even though the vet will tell you how great it is. We switched him to wellness and he has had no problems at all. He gets 1/2 pouch of wet food in the morning and and another half at night and then he has a bowl of dry food out all day. They key is trying to keep them as hydrated as possible...it helps!
I will defo not be feeding my babies on dry again, ever. I have a pet store near where i live so i'll ask about the lactose free milk. Its Sapphire that drinks the milk, she's never been really keen on water but i'll try and get the special milk for her, Felix & Oscar are boys and they drink plenty of water and their not keen on milk.
I'm so glad i'm on this site, there are such lovely and helpful people, you are all great and i thank you all for such support that you all give.
Great Big((((((((((HUGS)))))))))) For All you Kind and Supportive People.
I tried the canned Evo grain free before, but Akira still had itchy ears. Now I am feeding her canned Wellness grain free and she is still itchy. Her vet decided that Akira will have to be on Prednisilone indefinitely. I think there could be something in our home environment that we're both allergic to that is bothering her. I have to clean up surface mold from the tile floors along the entire exterior apartment wall several times in the winter. The housing authority has never tried all that hard to figure out why I get this mold. They don't believe it is growing within the walls. They do believe it is caused by water condensation. They tried to blame it on the window and the sliding glass door, but that doesn't make sense, as the water condensation and mold would be more confined if it was caused by the window in the bedroom and the sliding glass door in the living room. Besides, the window in the bedroom is much smaller than the sliding glass door in the living room and there is always more mold in the bedroom to clean up than there is in the living room. I do keep cleaning it up, since it's just as bad for my health as it is for my cat's health. The only thing of it is--I don't know if this is the whole problem, since we both have indoor allergies all throughout the drier part of the year, too.
I'm confused about calling a canned food like Evo a dry food. What about the canned Wellness grain free formula? Is it also considered a dry food?
I make sure I leave plenty of fresh water out for Akira and I change her water everyday. I make sure I give her filtered water, too.
goodmorning, I can understand your concern over the mold issue that can sure have an effect on both of your health issues I hope you can get to the cause of this it isn't healthy to be breathing this in at all.
YES both EVO canned and Wellness canned are considered canned food NOT dry at all, anything is a can is good...the dry is bagged and 'freeze dried' food so all the moisture is removed in the process.
Just want to make a comment on prednisone.....since the Vet believes Akira's allergies are 'air born' and not food related...ask him about ATOPICA its an immunosuppresant medication and safer to use that the prednisone.....my Vet had mentioned this for Sami and I did some reading on it....however since its never been determined if his allergies are food related or air borne I cann't use it....allergies must be air borne for it to be effective(at least according to the site I visited)
sorry I can't remember where I did this reading but I think it was on the following...otherwise just type ATOPICA in google.
Actually, we do know for sure that Akira is allergic to grains. We're just not sure what all her other allergies are. Poor cat. I know how lousy that itching must feel, since I have a lot of allergies myself. Would Atopica be good for a cat with food allergies, or should she stay on Prednisilone?
from what I've been able to find out Atopica is only for airborne allergies, it is mainly approved for dogs only...but Vets do use it for cats (off label). I would ask your Vet about it.
do some reading on www.veterinarypartner.com or
there is some good reading on that one...
I agree these poor animals, I can't imagine how they suffer with these itches.
good luck, let me know if you find the info you are looking for.
long term prednisilone leads to diabetes. as do any steroids.
Thanks for the important information about long-term use of the steroid medication. That's what I was concerned about. I know that steroid use can increase appetite, which is something this cat does not need. My previous cat did need the increase in appetite, but this cat sure doesn't. I'll be sure to look at the two sites you referenced here, too.
The best way to test for low level dehydration is by checking fur texture and skin elasticity.
But if your kitty has been on the hunt/ eat dry diet for a while, it may be hard for you to tell. The skin shouldn't feel dry and should "snap back" fairly quickly when lightly pinched (no pain pinch!).
The fur texture should be soft, not dry or harsh feeling. However, since your cat is an outdoor cat the fur texture may be difficult to go by. Outdoor/ indoor cats tend to have coarser coats then just; "indoor" cats.
But usually outdoor/ indoor cats hunt more for sport, and do not supplement their diet sufficiently with their kills.
You are aware of the dangers of letting kitty out when it comes to his hunting and eating prey...?
If you are really worried, bring it up at the next vet examination.
What about wetting the dry food? I wet down some of taz' dry food since he can't have any dry until his mouth heals. I had just poured water on it and set it down- the nut drank the water and left the soft stuff- at least right then. He is also a water drinker- and a brat with it. :)
I have a kitty - Charlie that has constantly battles inflammation and crystals. I normally never (ever) fed my kitties anything but dry (wet stunk too much!) Since Charlie's issue - the Vet prescribed CD wet food which is very pricey. Not only was it pricey - he's gained weight which is apparently a known side effect for some of these. (They did not share this initially.) So - I over-paid and still had to run to the vets every few months for a return of the problems. (CD was not effective.)
Problem solved: Over the counter Pro Plain Urinary Health (found it in Pet Smart.) Since switching, I have NOT made a trip to the Vet for his issues! It works, was better for Charlie -and is way cheaper. He does not drink a lot of water on his own so the wet's definitely better for this too. The Pro plan has gravy and is not Nearly as nasty (smelling) to feed them as the regular wet foods.
good for you and for Charlie that you found a canned food that he likes and thats helping him....like I mentioned from what I've read, ANY can food is superior to the BEST dry foods on the market!...I don't know much about Pro Plan but if its working great and the added gravy will give him the fluids he needs.
I wish my Nemo would accept can foods however he won't and I've tried every brand available.
The ONLY food he will eat other than his dry EVO is chicken(ours not cat brands)...therefore for now I am cooking up chicken thighs. he loves his chicken and the broth with it. so I am getting him off his dry food at least and the broth gives him the extra fluids he requires.......he is stressed with all the attempts to get him on a new diet, so I will give it a few weeks than SLOWLY try adding some of the nutrients he will need too, I may need to do this by syringe because I have my doubts he will eat his chicken if I add anything to it(?)....most difficult cat I've ever had to feed.
but at least with the chicken we are getting somewhere.
Best of luck with Charlie.
I have a lot of cats, all strays. One a very young pregnant feral female who had 5 kittens, born on my BD. I kept them all. Mother Cat will only eat dry food, even when she was pregnant. They're all house kitties. Mom came because I abducted the kittens. I've always fed Purina CC and Purina One and
Friskies wet food. I've got several other cats, an old guy about 18 now whose owner died and the inheritor put him on the street. Plus some others. All have vet care regularly. One old 'lady' has kidney disease. Another old gentleman was catching mice under the rose hedge. The latest was found eating some food left out for a feral stray. She weighed 10 lbs, and has ballooned to 15 and was always hungry,begging for more.
I'd never had a cat do that so I did give her more. Now my vet has prescribed reducing food but she's not loosing. I searched for a site to get more info. Cats are obligate carnivores....they must have meat or other animal protein, like eggs, etc. I'm going to look in to some of the brands mentioned here.
Although I would definitely prefer that our cat eat canned food, I tried giving him some canned cat food I bought from the vet and he wouldn't even touch it. This canned food I bought was the exact same food we're feeding him in dry food. Our vet even said not to make our cat's diet an all canned food diet. Perhaps there could be a mixed diet as in some of his food could remain dry food and some of it could be wet food. Eve
GOOD ON YOU for all you are doing for these strays/ferals...amazing to take so many in and care for them...
you are so right abt cats being obligate carnivores, they need their meat and not all the grains/carbs that so many brands put in as cheap fillers.
the reason for all the weight gain and still begging for more is b/c she is not getting enough protien/meat...the high grain content in purina foods are causing her to gain but are not full filling her nutritional needs.
Do NOT cut down on amount you feed for her too lose, just stop the carbs and she will lose naturally.
important to find a grain free canned food that they like that has a protien listed first on the label...if you read this full thread there are some good brands listed.
in my own opinion giving limited feedings of kibble is okay...just not as a main diet...mine love their kibble too..its like kitty crack.
Eve....those Vet foods are pure junk...read the full thread for more info and others opinions..most cats will not eat them, esp the canned ones. both Hills and Royal Canin are loaded with carbs.
find a good grain free one at any good pet store...it will take several tries to find one he will like.
there are some names listed above
WOW!!! I NEVER knew this!!! I always thought that the canned food was more for a "treat", or for "spoiled" kitties! Heck, that's basically how they're marketed! I've always alternated dry and wet, but I'm rethinking this.
I apologize if I missed this info in the thread (I read most of it, but not every reply)...I gather that raw/par-cooked meat is best, then prepared canned foods, then dry (makes perfect sense considering their natural diet)....what about feeding them things like canned (people) tuna, salmon? I've done that from time to time, but now I'm wondering if that's a good idea? Are there certain kinds of meat that's better? Any kinds of raw/par-cooked meat that's a NO NO? (If this info is already posted somewhere, just point me in the right direction, no need to repeat it)
My kitties are also big hunters, and they also eat their catch (unless my elderly bassett manages to snatch it from them, lol)....will cats not eat their catches if they're getting the proper nutrition, or is that not a factor at all?
Pffft, it's feeding time and I have two new bags of dry food, grrrrrr. I'm really flabbergasted that I didn't know this, like not even a clue! THANKS ALL OF YOU FOR THE VALUABLE INFO!!! You guys rock!
(Btw, I have two kitties, one male, one female from the same litter, both fixed, they will be one on Thursday...yay...kitty b-days!)
Dry food is not, in and of itself, the worst thing you can feed kitty.
Tuna Cat made it over 16 years (04/1978 - 07/1994) eating mostly Purina Cat Chow, with canned food being a twice a day treat in the "stone age" of pet nutrition.
Queen Victoria (11/1982 - 05/2000) and Calamity Jane (11/82 - 03/2004), the Grey sisters and their friend Cerridwen Blythe (12/1983 - 04/2000), ate essentially the same diet as did Tuna.
All three were pretty active cats, even in their senior years.
April Dancer (04/1986 - 10/1992 - Anaphylactic shock), Silver Kestrel (04/2000 - 06/2012, lymphoma) and Chesapeake (06/2002 - 01/2014, congestive heart failure) were all pretty active cats, though Chessie did not take well to the move from Illinois to Maryland.
Hildiekatt (09/2001 - now) and Teia Honey (12/1999 - now); have gotten them to eat lower carb kibble and more canned. Both have lost excess weight, are more active and are doing well (Hildie is now, we think, in remission from diabetes).
As has been suggested, look closely at the stuffs that make up kitty's food. The more carnivorous the better, in wet or dry form.
Better still, encourage kitty to be active and take an interest in being active in kitty's life.
hi....yes catinfo site was a real eye opener for me a few years ago too...
NG, raw and par cooked diets are the best but not unless they are properly balanced with all the supplements the kitties require, feeding them some chicken or pork or whatever isn't quite the same as a whole mouse...and would be deficient in much without the bones/guts/etc.
I do a homemade diet for my Nemo..b/c he won't eat commercial canned foods...(Sami won't eat my cooking tho) and it took alot of research and planning to get the protien/phosphorus balanced as well as what supplements I needed to add and where to buy...
GRAIN FREE canned food is second best, but a small amount of kibble isn't going to kill them....UNLESS they have had previous trouble with urinary tract infections or crystals than its a huge NO NO..this is especially troublesome for male cats
Diabetic cats also should also be given a very limited amount of kibble..and if they are than yes it has to be GRAIN FREE / low carb to keep the weight down...cats on grains/carbs tend to gain too much weight and like us humans are than very susceptible to diabetes..
Dr Pierson and other Veterinary nutritionists say they never feed kibble....
Dr. Piersons site www.catinfo also states NEVER to feed a cat fish...b/c of all the contaminates especially mercury. that being said my Sami loves his tuna and I do give in just occasionally and give him a small amount...
You guys are seriously amazing! SO full of knowledge. I'm SO glad I read this thread. I started reading the link, even MORE info!
Funny timing too, because my hubby just cooked up a HUGE bass he had caught and froze about a month ago. We never ate it, so he figured it would be a nice treat for the cats. Now, I'm thinking that would be a bad idea. I've seen mixed reviews about feeding cats freshwater fish, understandably, with the Mercury level issue. What's your opinions?
Maybe in small amounts? Maybe mixed with something? Or just a big NO regardless. Too bad I didn't live near the ocean, because the seagulls would love it, lol. Hate for it to go to waste, but I want to do right by my feline babies.
Had I known years ago that dry food was so bad, maybe my red point Siamese mix I had years ago wouldn't have had bladder crystals. While it's true that males are more likely to suffer this condition, I know from experience that females get bladder crystals, too, because my little Siamese mix was a girl. Of course, she's the same cat that died from IBD, too. I'm sure that any canned food would still have been better than the dried food I was told to give her. She probably still would have died sooner rather than later, simply because this was a long time ago and I just didn't know as much as I needed to know back then--the information that vets often don't share with pet parents. Too many don't tell people to use canned food or try a grain free diet. But, now I take my chocolate tortoise shell, Akira, to a cats only veterinary clinic. I think the vets at the clinic I take Akira to know more about what diets are best for our kitties. When Akira had scratched all the fur off her ears years ago and I took her in for the first time with it, the vet took one look at her ears and said it was food allergies. And, she was right, too. That's when I started Akira on the canned Wellness grain free diet. It definitely made the difference for Akira.
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