Spaying: The day after

I took my precious 4 month old Kali to get spayed yesterday.  They said after the surgery she was up looking around, very alert.  She seemed almost normal.  Then last night she seemed to be out of it, breathing very heavy and making a moaning sound every time she took a breath.  At 2am I found her asleep in the bathroom, making that same sound.  I sat with her a while...then she kept relocating...I guess to find a comfortable place.  She did that the rest of the night.
Now this morning, she's still not with it.  She won't eat (and she's normally a scavenger) or drink.  However, about 30 minutes ago she went to her water bowl in the bedroom and laid her head in it.  I finally got her to drink a bit, then she laid in it again.  I wet her neck, which she seemed to like (much different than she'd normally be acting)...and then she went under the bed into the corner and now doesn't want to be bothered.
I'm wondering....is this normal behavior or should I be worried???  
I didn't get any medication for her...no pain killer or antibiotics.  I hate seeing my baby in pain when there's nothing I can seem to do for her.  She doesn't seem to want to be around me or want me to pet her at all, which again is not normal.
Is there anything I can do?  Should I call the vet (normally I'd say she'd get over it...at least that's what I do for myself and humans.  I never go to the doctor)?  I don't want to overreact, but I just hate seeing her act like this.

[opus88]

please take this kitty back to your Vet IMMEDIATELY..............this is NOT normal.
and please update us after I am worried about her.

♥Opus

[KaliMom2k10]

Thank you so much for your kind concern.
I took her back this morning as soon as the dr was in.  Yesterday when she left she was fine...playing and everything.  So today they were all worried about her...she was very lethargic by that time.  Her temp was 93, they put her on oxygen, took x-rays and did all they could do there.  They sent me to a place about 20 mins away that had an oxygen room....rushed me out of there.  They kept her on oxygen until we left.  

Got to hospital, took her right in, got her bp up, etc.  She had needles in her all over and she needed oxygen.  They said she had pneumonia, which could have been caused by vomiting due to the anesthesia.  They wanted to keep her a couple days.  Before I left she was doing better, so I went home, planning to go back to see her tonight with my husband.  
About 45 minutes later dr called me and said I needed to get back there asap.  Said Kali wasn't breathing very good...needed help.  I may have to make 'that decision'.  
I jetted down there asap.  

By the time I got there, they had her on a breathing machine and it didn't look good.  I went in there and said my goodbyes and held her.  She stopped breathing in my arms :(

This is possibly the saddest day in my life....You try to do the right thing by getting your animals spayed and this happens.  She was the healthiest cat...had all her shots.  I did everything I could do for her.  She was our baby and we so loved her.  She had the best life of any kitty I know and of course, she was the most precious kitten in the world!!

I will ask you something...
since this could have had something to do with the anesthesia, do you think we have any legal leg to stand on?  I spent $900 today to try to save her, to no avail.  My husband is blaming the spay doctor... He's very upset.  I don't know if there's anything we can do, having signed all the release forms you sign before surgery.  I know nothing will bring her back but we're not in any real situation that we can afford to spend that much money on basically nothing!  Any information is appreciated.

I do thank you for your concern.

:(  

[opus88]

OH honey I am so sad for you and kitty.........I was afraid of this!!
to loose a dear friend and so young is heartbreaking to say the least. surgery of any kind for both human and animals is never without its risks unfortunately....that why the release forms.
NOt only did it cost you all the $ for the surgery but another wow $900 on top of that too, that is a heavy expense for anyone, than to loose her besides, the money wouldn't have hurt so bad if it saved her.
IMO theres really no liability here because of the known risks. If I were you tho I would talk to the Vet to see if there was some way SOME of the costs could be reduced, I really don't think personally that this is a possibility but it doesn't hurt to try.
again hon I am so sorry for your loss and for dear little Kali, she knows she was loved and that mommy and daddy did their very best for her....
RIP Kali
my deepest condolences.
♥Opus

[KaliMom2k10]

Thank you for your kind words and condolences.  

Now I'm looking into crematories.  Do you know anything about this?  I wonder how long we have to get her there.  I do want to keep her forever...she was our only 'child'.  

No...$900 would have been CHEAP if it had saved her.  I was looking at a $3000 estimate to save her, which I was willing to pay.  But 900 to let her go....

Thanks again.  It's not everyone that understands the loss of a special pet...she was truly like a child to us.

[opus88]

honey we here on the cat community all understand how it feels to loose a beloved pet and even worse when we are the ones that need to make that final decision...its one of the hardest things any of us can do and sometimes one of the kindest too.

yes I do know a bit about cremation, at least here in Canada.
I had to have my loved Opus at 17yrs put to sleep 5 yrs ago and I had him cremated. he was euthanized at home by our dear Vet....than I kept him here for the afternoon with me and said my goodbyes(again)...I than took him back to our Vet and he made arrangements for the crematorium to pick him up, he was returned to me about 5 days later in a beautiful cedar urn............the total cost 5 yrs ago was $300. and well worth it to me.
I would phone your Vet he would tell you if their clinic looks after this if not he would know who to contact.

again honey all my best thoughts. have you ever read the rainbow bridge??

I don't have a copy right with me, I think if you go to the top of this screen and type in rainbow bridge(in the search area)...it would bring it up. if not try googling it, its beautiful and a comfort to us all.

♥Opus

[Jade59]

Oh no!  I am so shocked to read what happened to your precious girl.  I am deeply sorry for your loss and the farther I read into your first post, the harder I cried.  At least you were able to get there in time to hold her and give her love and comfort which I know without a doubt helped to keep her calm and unafraid and to let go.  

I know several people who have had their animals cremated - I believe it was done through their vet (a separate service) but I could be mistaken.  Maybe if you start a new thread asking about cremation, the members who have had it done can give you some info.  

Not only did one member here at MH call a service to euthanize her kitty at home, my neighbor also had his dog put to sleep in their backyard and it was that vet who dealt with the cremation details as far as I know.  

You must be in such shock over this.  And all because you were trying to do the right thing.  My heart goes out to you.   What a great mom you are.  Kali sounded very special.  This is so sad and such a shame.  

Here is a poem called the Rainbow Bridge in case you don't know it.  It's given so many of us on the cat forum a great deal of comfort.  I hope it does for you, too.  

Rainbow Bridge

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.

When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge.
There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together.
There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by.
The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

Author unknown...

[KaliMom2k10]

Thank you both so much for your thoughts.....

Of course Rainbow Bridge made me cry.....again!  

I found a place locally where we can take her to get cremated for a good price so we can keep her always...she's been the best thing in our lives for the past 4 months (we found her when she was about a week old and brought her home at 6 wks).  One in a million, she was.

Thank you again....

<3

[Jade59]

I'm glad you found a place to take care of Kali.  I see Opus and I posted at the same time earlier and Opus was one of the members I was talking about who had experience with cremation.  

Anytime you would like to share in the future and just talk about how special Kali was or just need some support, we will all be here for you since each one of thinks of our pets as our children and all understand how devastating it is when we lose one of our beloved babies.

My thoughts and prayers are with you...♥

[spirit3]

i'm shocked and upset for you! how devasting!! you must be ...i don't even have words. i'm in tears for you. i am so sorry for your loss. this is just a tragedy.

[KaliMom2k10]

Yes, spirit, I am whatever it is you're thinking that you don't have words for.  I still can't believe my Kali didn't wake me up in the middle of the night last night nuzzling on my neck like she always did.  My precious girl :(

I do know she wants to come back to us so I'm looking for kitty's that were born yesterday or today.  I'm sure she's finding a way back home as we speak (that's how I must think to get past this).
On a positive note, she got more love from us in the 4 short months we knew her than most cats get in their lifetime.  Everyone that ever met her loved her.  She never had a bad moment in her life...I just wish her last day wasn't so horrible for her.

We're getting much love and support from those that knew her.  I would never wish this on anyone...it's truly the hardest thing I've ever been through in my life.  I'm happy I have my friends and husband...he's always there for me and esp at this time.  He's very upset and livid with the vet that did the surgery, still blaming him.  He just needs someone to put the blame on, and since she was very healthy and happy before the surgery, he's the only one to blame.

I woke up at 130am after getting 3 hrs of sleep.  Can't seem to get yesterday out of my mind and keep reliving it over and over.  I really need to stop before it affects my health.

Today after I go talk to the spaying vet about at least getting our money back to pay for the cremation, I'll be visiting some friends that just had 2 litters of kitty's (that's where we got our Kali).  We'll never ever be able to replace Kali...she was definitely one in a million....often called by us and friends "the best kitty in the whole wide world".  I didn't want to get one right away but hubby said I needed to so I could move on.  But I know that whatever one we pick will never live up to Kali.

I'm so sad....Normally I'd say "it could be worse" or "everything happens for a reason", which I'm a firm believer in.  But what reason could it be that our precious Kali got taken away from us at such an early age????!  Even using 'the secret', which I'm also a firm believer in.  You control your life with thoughts.  The thought of not having my Kali NEVER went thru my mind!  I thought she'd be with me until she left me from old age!!  This is just horrible.

I just don't understand...........

Think I'll try to get some sleep for a bit.  I was up most of the night on Tuesday as well, taking care of my baby.  She was so pitiful...I felt so bad and there was nothing I could do for her.  I just wish I knew what happened?  Was it the vets fault?  Did they do something wrong to cause this?  Or was it really just that perhaps she vomited when she got home and it went back down her throat causing her to get pneumonia?  Has anyone ever heard of that??  My Poor Kali...............

Thanks for listening.

[29sillygirl]

I add my sincere condolences to everyone else's.  I have the ashes of two of my dear kitties.  It is a great comfort.  Feel they are still with me in some way.  I just couldn't let them be part of a mass cremation which is what happens otherwise.

Try not to torture yourself finding reasons.  These things just happen sometimes.  Hence the release forms as has been discussed.  You couldn't have saved her. Or known this would happen.  You acted in her best interest and were with her when her spirit left.  We can't do more for our kitties.

[Maddie6]

I'm so sorry to hear about your little Kali.  My heart and prayers go out to you.  I think it's a good idea you're seeing your Vet and asking questions as to what happened.  It won't bring her back, but I can understand you have questions.  I think it's great you want to give another kitten a home.  Take care.

[KaliMom2k10]

Thank you all for your kind words.  I know there's nothing I can do to bring her back and I did all I could do to save her.  I gave her all the love I could while she was with us......

I talked to vet yesterday...he was adamant in the fact that he did nothing wrong before, during or after the surgery and that Kali was in good spirits when she left (she was...when we picked her up, she was very happy).  Seeing my situation (and knowing my husband was NOT very happy with the whole deal), he agreed to do the cremation at no charge (normally $100).  So that was satisfactory.  Not going to bring her back, but it does show that he has a heart.  He did stress that this was NOT an admission of any guilt on his part...he said he wanted to do this to help us out.  I don't think an autopsy can get screwed up...but how do you really know that you're getting YOU'RE animals ashes back?  I'm just saying................

I thought about calling the 'specialist' and seeing if she has a heart as well.  That's an awful stiff bill to pay when it didn't help save her :(  I highly doubt anything will come of that though.

Thank you all again...it's good to know I'm not alone.

[KaliMom2k10]

I meant cremation, not autopsy.  Very tired......and my mind is not working right these days.

[Jade59]

Oh honey, I know just how you're feeling.  Something happened to our first cat that was never really figured out and after $2500 and no real answers, we had to put her down.  I say this to you since I was like you with reliving the whole thing over and over and feeling just sick about it that maybe I didn't do everything right, didn't ask for some test and this went on for six months.  Made myself sick with crying and imagining every single day.  

When our beautiful Jade showed up is when I finally started to heal and stop crying.  I think getting another kitty will be good for you and of course will never ever replace your wonderful Kali, but will be good for YOU to move on.  

Of Course the vet will never admit fault.  And I'm with you in wondering if it's REALLY your animal in that urn.  You have to just believe it's Kali, otherwise, something else to make yourself sick over.  

Of course you're exhausted.  Please take care.  We ALL understand here.  *Hugs*

[29sillygirl]

I know my kits ashes belong to them.  No worries.  You simply have to have faith that this is so.  You will have Kali's ashes.  Believe it.  The vet is doing the right thing, tho' we know he is not obligated.  I am fortunate in that I do trust my vet.  The doctors have changed over the years, but the head doctor now is the one who put my Bruno to sleep, and the entire staff were so good to me and him.......even sending a card before his ashes arrived.

Take it easy.  This is a hard, hard thing to experience.  

[opus88]

That is so right, they are reputable ppl and no worries they care too....my Vet clinic even does a donation in pets name to the Veterinary teaching hospital in the nearby city....and sent me a flower vase after Opus's death.. I was pleased he was remembered.
I'm glad they are doing something towards your loss Kalismom, they should.

hey there 29..whats happening with the new one? did you go to your Vet clinic and have a visit yet?...I'm so hoping you find just the 'right' new baby..

♥Opus

[KaliMom2k10]

When does the pain go away???

I took my precious Kali to get cremated yesterday.  The doctor offered to do a partial autopsy at no charge to see if we could get this cause of death figured out.  The more I talk to the doctor, the more I trust him.  However, my husband has a much different opinion.  He still wonders why a perfectly healthy happy kitty who loved her life so much could go in to get spayed and end up like this.
We should be getting the results and ashes the middle of next week.

I went to the dumb friends league yesterday and there was nothing there.  7 adults and 2 black kittens.  I know Kali will come back...we may have to wait a few weeks.  

I did hear a couple very encouraging stories while out yesterday.  I thought I'd pass them on to you.

A woman at the vets office told me a story about when her dog died...he'd been sick for a couple days and she knew he wasn't going to last much longer.  She held him and read him Rainbow Bridge.  He passed the next day.  That evening while laying in her bed she looked up on the ceiling and there was a rainbow.  Her puppy made it there and was giving her a sign.  *she said it was probably from the sun shining in on her prism, but still a sign*

Same woman told me story about when her kitten passed...
Said she'd never seen strays in her area before, but about 6 weeks after kitty died she saw a litter and their mom wandering around in her neighborhood.  She kept 2 of them and they were awesome.  Filled the void.  *could it be the soul of her first kitten??  I believe so*

Last story...after I got back from looking at new kitty's I had lunch at my local bar/grill.  5 minutes after I got there an acquaintance came in with her little 4 month old black and brown chihuahua/shih tzu mix.  I immediately took him from her and held him.  He cuddled with me, giving me comfort.  She said he never lets strangers pet him, let alone cuddle with them.  Then she told me the story about how she found him....
She'd lost her kitty about 6 weeks earlier.  She was at a neighbors looking for a puppy for her niece when this 'Tiger' chose her...he jumped up on her lap and that was it.  She never thought she'd want a dog, but when he found her, she knew it was meant to be.  This puppy was born 2 days after her kitty passed away  ;)

So I'm holding on to that hope that we do find our Kali in another kitty...I just don't know if I can wait 6 weeks to get another one.  The people we got Kali from have 3 litters...one is almost ready to go.  They're siamese so that's just not the same.  Of course they're adorable...all kitty's are.  The mother of Kali had kittens but she decided to have them under their house (trailer).  They're waaaaay under there....We're going to try and find a way to get to them today and see if there's another calico there.  My husband says they need to get out of there asap so they're used to having human contact or he doesn't think they'll be very good pets.  Any opinions about that?

Well, thank you all for giving me a place to vent and for all your kind words of encouragement.  This has helped me immensely.  I do have faith that we'll find the right new baby..........

Love to all......
Give all your precious kitty's a hug for me.

[zodiacqueen]

I just wanted to let you know how sorry I am about your baby!  It will take some time, but your pain will ease a little day by day.

I would also like to say that if your vet's willing to do an autopsy at no charge, I can really tell that he sincerely feels bad about Kali's death.  That truly says a lot about that vet's character!!  

Please let us know how it turns out!

[Piparskeggr]

One of the good folk here suggested I drop by...prepare for a long message =)

First, I know how hard it is to lose a little critter that has wormed it's way deeply into your heart, to have done what is right, and have it turn out so wrong.

http://tinyurl.com/2ehybyo  This our little friend April Dancer.  She was with us during USAF postings in Florida, Nebraska and Ohio, for a little over 6 years.  (Other cats named in this note are in the album.)

We rescued her from a park near the lab in which my wife worked at Eglin AFB, FL back in '86.  Vet figured she was about 2 months old, so we decided she would share my wife's birthday of April 17th.

Dancer was my buddy and self-appointed Warden of the House.

We lost her to anaphylactic shock from a sedative used to calm her so the vet in Ohio could do a flea dip.  Dancer was easily handled by a very limited number of humans: us, our friend Louis, Doc Langley (our vet in Nebraska) and Laurie-Ann (the kenneler we used in Nebraska).  We chalked it up to a veterinary maloccurrence.  It didn't hurt any less.

The vet refunded the fee for the procedure and arranged for an individual cremation at the Pines Pet Cemetery, Lebanon, OH.  We went there to pick her up afterwards; a very lovely place and the staff were so very nice and genuinely caring.

Dancer is in a nice tea tin with Queen Victoria, Calamity Jane and Cerridwin Blythe.  Our instructions are that our girls will be interred with us.

As to adopting a feral kitty; well, 3 of the 8 cats Anita and have (have had) were street rescues: Dancer, Cerridwin and the semi-famous Miss Teia Honey.

I brought Cerridwen in February 1988 during a 2 week period of sub-zero temps when we were in Nebraska; vet figured she was a little over 4 years old, so her birthday became Winter Solstice of 1984.  Cerri was one of the sweetest tempered cats in the world, and never, ever wanted to go out again.  She fit right in with the other 3 (Vickie, Cammie and Dancer).

We think some heartless SOB literally kicked her out when she became pregnant (she sat with one leg out stiffly).  Vet said she looked like she'd just weaned a litter when we brought her in; an impression borne out by the appearance that spring of 2 young cats that could have been her twins.

So, Dancer was a barely weaned kitten and Cerri a barely weaned momma when we brought them in, neither having a long career on their own.

Miss Teia Honey; her previous people rescued her from the streets at about 6 months of age, had her for 10 years (June 1999 - June 2009), we took her in when they lost their house to foreclosure and I designated her birthday as 2 December (as we picked her on 2 June).  They thought she'd been abused, both by other animals and by people...she has a limp in both her forelaegs when she walks.  They gave her a room in the house, a clean scratch box, food, water and some basic vet care.  But seemed to have made little to no effort at socialization.

Teia will let me pick her up, about once a week, now.  Has to have lap time twice a week, and will "groom" my arm.  Though she is "daddy's girl," Teia does let Anita pet her, and will lick her fingers, too.  She has let me cut away about half the mats, which "armor-plated" the lumber region of her spine and flanks.  The felt is almost an inch thick in places, originally covering an area bigger than the size of both my hands.  She eats wet food, is out during the day, seems to like Hildiekatt's company (they eat all their meals together and Hildie will go into Teia's room and lay a few feet away), plays, purrs, like being petted, loves ear scritches, comes out of "her" room a little...none of which she did when she arrived.

I just observed her for a couple of weeks before trying to start any program of rehabilitation.  We weren't sure she was eating when she first arrived, so we started weighing her food bowl in the morning; missing weight meant food eaten.

Our rehab tools have been patience, persistence, kindness and respect for her previous history.

She still gets in ornery moods, bats away our hands (claws in MOST of the time), sometimes even softly bites; we leave her alone for awhile.  It's a part of her personality, which we respect and take into account.

But, the door to her room is never shut now.  When both Anita and I are not around to referee, we put a mesh babygate in the doorway.

Teia will lay near the gate and watch the other cats go by.  We used a baby monitor one day hooked up to the VCR to see what she does while we are gone.

One morning, Teia and Kestrel were touching noses through the gate, when I took it down, Teia followed Kessie towards the kitchen, getting about 10' before realizing she was well outside her safe zone.

So, a feral cat can be socialized; combine the above mentioned tools with time...

Take care, Kali knew you tried your best, I firmly believe.

Pip

[Piparskeggr]

Oh, and a note on the kitties under the trailer home...

Dancer was about 2 months old as I wrote above, just barely weaned in the vet's opinion.  She'd never been handled by people, but was very hungry (vet thought she had not eaten in days) and took to being bathed and fed by these big, noisy, unfamiliar creatures.

She was so dirty you couldn't tell that she was black and white; she looked solid black.

I think she was at just the right age to start being socialized to people, about 8 weeks.

Opinions I've seen have varied to as low as 6 weeks and as high as 12 weeks.

Food is always a good tool, too, as is a quiet, soothing voice.

Good luck with the kitties - Pip

[swampcritter]

Swampy is saddened over the loss of your cat.


In terms of a "legal leg" -- you could almost certainly press the case for economic damages -- which includes the $900 and costs to cremate your pet. The problem is, that a pet means more than the money, and to claim emotional damages has historically been difficult (each state has a different law regarding this).

What Swampy would consider doing in your shoes is a small claims case -- no lawyers -- for $900 + cost of spay + cost of cremation.

[KaliMom2k10]

Huh...I came to check on things and noticed they didn't post my last comment!  I wrote back at the beginning of the week.  Loooong message, too :(

Ok, so here goes....first of all, thanks Pip for sharing your story.  And I wanted to tell you that we were in Ft Walton Beach from mid 80's to early 90's.  My ex husband was stationed at Eglin.  Small world.

Now...I wanted to catch you all up.

We've been busy with the other litter's the past week.  Saturday we rescued Kali's moms new litter from under the trailer.  I know they were happy to get out.  On Monday I put an ad on Craigslist and I've got 4 of the 5 kittens placed in good homes.  We took one of their Siamese kittens home with us on Sunday and I sold one for them on Monday.  They're so precious.  Ours is the perfect little kitty, but my brother in law told me I shouldn't settle for a kitten just to have a kitten and that he knew I wanted a calico similar to Kali...she was the best kitten EVER.  He was right.  His neighbor works at shelters so he got in touch with her and together they helped me find my perfect kitty.  I found her yesterday.  She was at a foster home and she's already spayed.  2 months old and just gorgeous...and her personality is great!!  She gets along very well with our siamese, which we're keeping as well.  

I got Kali's remains yesterday and the autopsy report.  They found out that it wasn't her heart...in the x-rays they couldn't see it but they said it was because of the pneumonia around it....They said it was aspiration pneumonia which is not very common in kitty's, but it does happen.  We had a one in a million chance of something bad happening to our baby and yaay, we won!  :(  Now let me win something good!!  
I'll have my little Kali forever.  I plan to make a collage of her pics, add a rainbow and 'Rainbow Bridge'...then use some of her fur on the frame.  I'm also making a small ceramic kitten 'jar' and paint it to look like her to put her ashes in.

Things are getting better...I can't keep beating myself up over this or keep dwelling on it.  We told ourselves that we must move on and I think we've done a good job of that.

It's been a hard week, but things are getting better as the days go by.

Thank you all for comforting me in my time of need...it did help me so much to be able to talk to people and hear others stories.  

[opus88]

Kali, sorry your last post was lost, don't know what happened there?
I am so glad you did make the effort to retype and send us all the good news...........I am so happy for you, not only for finding another perfect kitty but on also deciding to keep another little one that needed a good home too..........good for you!!!
Sounds wonderful, all you'll be doing as a remembrance to Kali. she will always be there with you in your heart dear...you will love these two new babies but there will always be that special place in your heart for Kali.
thanks for sharing and the best to you all!!...please stay with us and post your stories, questions or replys anytime.

♥Opus