cat just had teeth extracted and some issues followed...

Hello,
I'm hoping someone can give me some insight as I want a second opinion to my vets.   My 9 year old cat just got home yesterday from having oral surgery to have some teeth extracted.  He had this done 3 years ago and had no issues then.
1. When I got him back yesterday, his 3rd eyelid was closed in his right eye.  The Dr. told me this could be normal sometimes due to the extractions and should go away in 3 days or so.  My research on the internet only found a few cases of this and it didn't look so good.  They said if it didn't go away they could treat it with pregnazone I think but they didn't want to do it the same day he was released. I am concerned this will not go away as it is 2 days after his actual surgery and he still has it.
2.  If he shakes his head, he immediatly falls over on the right side.
3.  He hasn't eaten or drank anything in almost 24hrs now.

I am going to try and give him his oral antibiotics later today.

I am very concerned with my cats health and I am feeling that he is worse off than when he went in.  He had none of these issues other than licking his nose which indicated to me he was having issues with his teeth again.

[nancyjac]

I haven't had much experience with cats who have had teeth extracted, but it doesn't sound like the other symptoms are related to that and the timing may be just coincidental.  Is he current on all of his vaccinations?  The eye situation could be conjunctivitis or URI.  Falling over could be from visual obstruction due the above or it could be a symptom of distemper.  But if it is only happening when he is shaking his head, it could just general weakness from not feeling well and not eating.  I am most concerned about his not drinking.  Cats can dehydrate very quickly.  Anything you can do to encourage him to drink, including force feeding or tubing should be considered.  If he continues to not eat or drink today, I would take him back to the vet for a hydratiion IV at a minimum.

[jackal2001]

He is an inside only cat and the only cat we have.  He got updated on his distemper and rabies about 5hrs before his surgery.
He had no signes of any issues before we took him in to the vet.

The Dr. did state that he did have to go pretty deep to remove a partial tooth so I don't know if this caused the other issues.  

What got me mad is the Dr. didn't even tell me about his eyelid being closed until I picked him up yesterday.

He was on IV fluids Wed (day of surgery) and Thursday up until I picked him up on Thursday around 3pm.  He hasn't eaten or drank that I know of since thrusday at 3pm.

[nancyjac]

Ah....ok.  His current symptoms could well be from the vaccinations he had just prior to the teeth extraction.  The combination of the vaccines with surgery and anesthesia.  That he was on IV fluids tells me that he might have a history of reaction to vaccinations?  One of my cats does and she needs subcutaneous hydration before any vaccinations.  But given that he did have IV fluids, I am not as concerned about dehydration, but still would try to encourage him to eat and drink.  Check him for "loose" skin.  That is if you pinch his skin, particularly around the neck or limb areas, and it seems you are getting more skin pulling away from his body than usually, that is a sign of dehydration,.

If your cat was not current on his distemper and rabies vaccines prior to the surgery, I don't fault your vet for giving the vaccinations so close before surgery, both for your cat's protection as well as his own and that of his staff.    

[jackal2001]

i'm not sure how often distempers are needed, but he wasn't due for rabies for another few weeks.  we only take him to the vet when a problem arises as he isn't easy to get into the carrier and puts up a long fight.

the vet just called me and i told them he wasn't doing well at all.  they said we should bring him back in.  he may not be eating because he is in pain.  my wife is going to try and get home by 1pm est and we are going to try to get him from hiding and back to the vet.

we adopted our cat at about 1year old and he was found born in the wild.  9 years later we can still not pick him up as he doesn't like to be held.  He loves to lay on me all the time while watching tv.  he follows me around like a dog would.

[opus88]

there can be many bad reactions to the anesthestic used and the Vet needs to be open about this with you if this is possibly the issue.
the shaking of his head indicates he is having pain either in the jaw area from the extraction or in his brain....he maybe has a severe headache/unbalanced again from the anesthesia or infection..or nerve damage with the deep extraction!!!!  ...he does need IV hydration or syringe and soon!...I hope the Vet also considers IV antibiotics.
Poor baby, please let us know how he does after the exam......good luck.

[opus88]

also please do not even consider vaccinations at this time, kitty is in enough of a trauma!!

[jackal2001]

I just dropped off kitty back at the vet.  He is going to spend the night with some IV fluids.
They will give him an injection of anitbiotics and they are going to look at a steriod for the 3rd eyelid issue.
There is another issue....
After I got him in the carrier before I took him, I noticed his eyes are moving.  They move back and forth.  This has me really concerned as I thought this would be nurological.  Let me restate this.  MY CAT HAD NONE OF THESE ISSUES BEFORE GOING INTO SURGERY.  I again stated this to the Dr. (who wasn't the first Dr. we delt with) and he said it could be an underlying issue that may have come up with the surgery.  I call BS and they are looking to cover their a$$e$.
He said the eyes "jittering" are a sign of vertigo and would cause him to fall over.
I am really angry and sad at the same time.  I want my little buddy back just the way I took him there.

[nancyjac]

Side to side eye movement is indicative of vestibular disease, which is a neurological issue and would account for the balance problems.  Do he tilt his head to one particular side, like the falling on the right side?  This would be indicative of the location of a lesion,. Idiopathic vestibular disease is the most common form and tends to be be acute, meaning it comes on rapidly and resolves rapidly.  It may be accompanied by nausea.  If you don't start seeing improvement in about 72 hours, it probably isn't idiopathic.  And I mean some improvement, not resolution.  Even if it is idiopathic it could take 7-14 days for the symptoms to completely resolve.

[jackal2001]

As of the day before his surgery up to him being 9 years old he never experienced any form of balance problems, head tilting, etc.  He jumps on to small ledges all the time and walks around our top of our staircase.
HE HAD NO ISSUES BEFORE WE TOOK HIM TO THE VET OTHER THAN LICKING HIS NOSE!!!!

why are you suggesting diseases when he clearly went into the drs with none of the issues and retuned to me with a lot of issues????

[opus88]

well lets just hope the Vet gets to the cause of these problems!

all anesthesia's should be clear of the system within 4 hrs.

the third eyelid showing is usually a sign of ocular pain or some other discomfort.

could possibly be an infection of the soft tissue and swelling around the orbit, were the extractions in the
upper jaw?

certain tranquilizers can cause this, just read that but it doesn't state which ones!

damage to cranial nerves III or VI (rare) nerves in and around back of eye

If it is an infection the antibiotics will make a big difference by tomorrow, I'm glad he's getting re hydrated so as not to add further problems to ones he already has. I hope he will come home in much improved health.

[nancyjac]

I understand that you are upset and concerned.  You originally asked for second opinions and I've given you mine, based on the symptoms you have posted, as have others.  The issues you cat has now may or may not be related to his prior dental surgery, but blaming everything on that surgery or the vet doesn't seem to be helping either you or your cat.  

[jackal2001]

opus88,
I don't know where all the extractions were.  I know one was on the lower left side.  I'm going to ask today where they were exactly.

When I took him back the vet on Friday, his temp was 101 which they told me was normal so he shouldn't have an infection.

His 3rd eye being closed on his rigtht eye and him not having any balance and his eyeballs shaking back and forth are a real concern.  I don't want him to live like that.  He was so playfull and active.  I can't help thinking I will have to put him down and that is what is making me so angry.

If you take your car in for an oil change and it comes back to you with a busted headlight and a flat tire, who do you blame nancyjac?

[jackal2001]

Just got a call from the Dr.
2 extractions on the lower left side and 1 extraction on the lower right.  Nothing was done on the upper jaw.  He stated it could be that there was pressure on the eye from his head being on the towl on the table during surgery or something to that effect for the 3rd eyelid being closed.  He said it is starting to look better.

He also stated that his eyes moving back and forth started to reside.  I asked if this was neurological and he said yes, but there should be no permanant damage.

He only ate a little bit of food on Friday night.  They gave him a pregnazone injection yesterday and will start him on pills today.

I asked if any of the vacannations could have had any combining effects with the antistetic and he said no.

He will stay at the vet over the entire weekend and we will re-evaluate  on Monday.

[opus88]

good sign that kitty is eating, the prednisone will give them an appetite!!

and good the neurological signs are decreasing, his eye movements are referred to as nystigmus (spelling may be wrong).and yes can cause vertigo...I hope this won't be permanent. It can be common in one eye of some cats, I've never seen it in both eyes.

as I stated before the 3rd eyelid can indicate pain, therefore as pain decreases so will the 3rd eye cover..the pain can definitely be attributed to the extensive surgery  if not an infection, I agree the low temp should indicate that no infection is present.  Pain meds and prednisone should give relieve within in a few days. and if the neurological effects are temporary this too should disappear within a few days.

I certainly hope kitty is ok by tomorrow and don't give up too soon, I would really hate to see kitty put down if he is improving. It sure is hard to see an active alert kitty losing his ability to function normally, I too would be very upset and want answers.

let us know tomorrow please how he made out.
my best of wishes go with you both.

[jackal2001]

I am going to try and pick him up this afternoon if the Dr. says it is OK.  Of course he isn't in today but I guess another dr. can look at him.
They stated that the nystagmus is totally gone but his 3rd eyelid is still closed and the other pupil on the other eye is still dialated.  I don't know why this is still doing those 2 things.
He isn't on any pain meds but he will be on the prednisone for another 2 weeks total I think.
They said he is eating and drinking on his own now as well, but that is a side effect of the prednisone to have increased appatite.
I won't have any idea how he is doing until I get him home.  Since he seemed fine last time I got him home and then he fell over once he shook his head I am worried that it will happen again.

[opus88]

Let us know how kitty is doing please, we are all rooting for him.

[jackal2001]

We picked him up monday afternoon.  We got him home and he hid from us all day.  We had to dig him out to give him his prednasone pill which stressed him out even more and had to chase him for 45 minutes.
He came out last night and was walking around the house.  We had a lot of different types of food out but he only ate about 1/2 a teaspoon of tuna.
This morning he was acting normal and we were able to pet him and we tried giving him all kinds of food and he would smell it and walk away.  he was crying like he was hungry but didn't eat.  We tryed to pill him breifly but he took off and now he is hiding again under the sofa.
SO he didn't get his pill this morning and he really hasn't eaten anything either.
His left eye is still dialated and the right still is sunken with the 3rd eyelid over it.  The one dr said he could have horners syndrome. - great so they gave it to him.

They also told me that if I can't pill him we need to bring him back to get a long lasting steroid injection, instead of pilling him.  I don't even want to crate him as he is too stressed out already.

I am so angry and sad at the same time.  I told the vet I can't afford to bring him back for any more hospital stays.  I am over $1000.00 right now and I am broke.

[opus88]

they are responsible for the onset of all kitties problems therefore should be covering some at least of the costs!!! would make me 'angry' and
sad' too!!
poor kitty the health problems and all the stress besides......is he at least taking fluids? that is the most important. he may just be off foods due to all the stress?
I don't know anything about honers syndrome is this permanent??

[opus88]

I put a new tread up to see if anyone has any experience with this....however sorry I spelled it wrong. its HORNER'S SYNDROME.
I looked up some info on www.veterinarypartner.com

Not necessary to treat Horners syn. in most cases. its not painful and usually resolves on its own in 6-8weeks.
indicates some nerve damage has occurred.

eyes sunk deep into the sockets and 3rd eye showing is usually sign of severe dehydration.....was kitty given iv fluids if not drinking enough?

gosh I hope this does resolve, in the meantime please ensure he is drinking.

[jackal2001]

No the vet hasn't given us a break on anything.
He left eye seemed to clear up from being dialated the past few days so that looks ok now.
His right eye still has the 3rd eyelid closed.  He was sleeping on me all day today on the sofa which he noramlly used to do so I am very happy he is doing that.

He didn't eat anything all day until I put some fresh tuna water out and some tuna.  That is the only thing he had today.  He tried to eat his chicken but I don't think he is used to eating with no teeth.
My wife is picking up some baby food and I will try and mix his pill in with that and put it on his paw and hopefully he will lick it off.

[opus88]

great news ur making some headway.....and good problem solving solutions..keep up the great job, he'll keep improving I just feel it!!

[jackal2001]

kitty is doing better today.  he is acting almost like himself again.  i'd say he was at 90% now.
i did see him drink water twice yesterday on his own so i am very happy about that.  he is having some issues eating though.  he doesn't seem interested in his normal food.  i've been feeding him tuna and his human chicken, but he has issues eating his chicken even though i tear it up in very small pieces for him.  he will try and eat it but he acts like he is chewing it and can't, so it comes back out.  he did eat some of it.
i've managed to pill him by putting 1/2 the pill in a 1/2 of a soft hairball treat along with his hard crunchy treats that i break up in pieces for him.  so far so good with that.
he has a runny nose and is starting to sneeze a lot now too.  i don't know if he got a cold from being at the vet.  he did last time he was there 3 years ago.
his rigtht eye still has the 3rd eyelid up and he has been rubbing it a lot because it is tearing up on him.  i really hope that returns to normal.

[nancyjac]

The eating issues could be just learning how to eat with fewer teeth, or it could continue to be a problem for your cat due to the lack of a full set of teeth.  Continue to grind or mince his food as small as need be in order to keep him eating well.  You don't want malnourishment to be added to his list of problems.  The URI most likely is a by product of the stress from all he has been through lately.  The viruses that cause respiratory infections are always in any environment.  It is when the immune symptom is weakened through other illness or stress that the cold like symptoms appear.  You might periodically gently wipe his eyes out with a soft, damp, warm, cloth to keep him from irritating them further by rubbing at them.

[jackal2001]

I'm off from work this week so I continue to monitor him.
I've been feeding him Solid Gold Tuna Cat food for well over 2 years now and he always would eat it.  It is very soft and mushy.  It has big chunks of tuna in that but i normally crush them up.  In the past 4 days he has been getting better but has not eaten any of it since then.  I also tried some TikiCat which is soft pieces of fish and same thing.
I'm giving him everyting and anything I could think of.  He won't eat chicken any more no matter how small i make the pieces.  he tries to chew it and can't and I think he gives up.
He won't eat babyfood either.
I don't feet my cat any commercial grade cat food like friskys, fancy feast, etc. but I may have to now.

When I go back to work next week and leave a bowl of food out I guess we'll see what happens.

[nancyjac]

You might try Science diet a/d food.  It is ground and formulated to be nutrient and calorie dense.  It is often recommended by vets for developing kittens or for older cats with eating issues.  Even if he only eats a small amount, it will provide him with more calories and nutrients than the same amount of other canned food.  It generally isn't sold in grocery stores but you should be able to find it at a pet supply store.

[Jade59]

Hi jackal...do I understand you right?...you're kitty is barely eating Anything?  After so many days of this, this could lead to a crisis and I think you should go out and buy the commercial food just to get your cat to eat something.  While the Science diet is a great idea, from my own experience and others on the forum, not all cats will eat this, plus it's expensive and you have to buy a large bag (you said you were broke) so you might want to get some Fancy Feast and try that just to get kitty eating.  PrettyKitty1 here on the forum went through something similar with her cat barely eating and his organs began shutting down and he ended up in an ER hospital for quite some time and nearly died.  

It sounds like your kitty's mouth might hurt...maybe something has gone wrong with one of the extractions?  It just sounds like too many days that your kitty hasn't really eaten and I'm worried :(

[opus88]

Jade is right MUST get that kitten eating and fancy feast tho not a great food choice they do like it and will eat it when most other brands fail.

Nancy...I've done alot of reading on pet foods.
The Vets recommend Science Diet because they have been trained to think its a good diet, they mean well they just haven't been trained to put much research into nutrition.
However its not. Science Diet is very high in carbs. (grains)
I quote from info on one site www. catinfo.org
"In the wild, your cat would be eating a high protein, high moisture content, meat-based diet, with moderate level of fat and only 3-5% of their diet consisting of calories from carbs. (just a not here dry food contains 35-50% and some of the cheaper dry foods contain even higher amounts.)

Please note also that NOT ALL can foods are suitably low in carbs.
For instance most of the HILL'S SCIENCE DIET and the HILL'S PRESCRIPTION DIETS are VERY HIGH IN CARBS.

Cats have NO dietary need for carbs. infact a diet high in carbs can be detrimental to their health....grains are a cheap filler in foods, therefore the manufactures make better profits.

this info is is avail on www.catinfo.org on the link
"Feeding your cat: Know the basics" on page 4

cat food has recently become an obsession with me due to health problems in my own cats.
I could quote another very excellent source if interested.

[nancyjac]

Let me clarify:

I was referring to the a/d canned food, not a dry food.  All dry foods are high in carbs (which isn't a bad thing btw).  The a/d does have a high protein and moister content with moderate levels of fat.  It is also fortified with amino acids and other nutrients not found in most cat foods.  Carbs are the only macronutrient that feeds brain cells (in any animal).  The sites you quote rightly discuss the issues associated with a ratio that is excessive in carbs and deficient in proteins and fats.  But they are not suggesting that cats do not have a dietary need for carbs.  

I have fed literally hundreds of just weaned kittens.  Those that have trouble eating or gaining weight appropriately, almost always respond best to the a/d formulation.

[opus88]

I too will clarify, I was not talking at all about dry foods, except to make a comparison of how high dry foods are in carbs....besides IMO dry foods are the worst thing we can be feeding our pets.
the protien in dry food which is heavily plant based is NOT equal in quality to the protein in canned food which is meat based...Dry foods are water depleted and cause kidney and bladder diseases among other health problems, they are sprayed heavily with deadly chemicals as preservatives.

But thats another topic, in my original post I was referring to can foods and in the second paragraph I mention that not all can foods are necessarily low in carbs.

Hill's A/D has 15% carbs .(non prescription 24%) Yes the A/D is alot lower than many canned foods on the market.
however there are some that are lower still.
such as EVO or Wysong's Au Jus which have 3%
Wellness Core I believe has 0 grains, but I'm just going on memory here.

As far as amino acids thats included in all cat foods that I'm aware of in the form of Taurine, has to be or cats would be going blind and or have heart problems. And taurine is the most important of all the amino acids, many of the others such as glutamate, glycine, proline & serine are non essential.

Not trying to argue specifics with you Nancy...this is not my intention at all, we can all learn from each other and I value your opinions as I hope you do mine.

I'm sure many kittens do thrive on Hills A/D, because it is lower in carbs than many other can foods on the market you're right...and I'm sure the nutrient content too  would be excellent. also the moisture/fat levels are similar  as with others in the better brands.
and you are very correct when you say when eating a high quality food they only need a very small amount in comparison to what they would need of a lower quality food.

my whole point of adding my post was to state that HILL's isn't necessarily one of the best ones on the market. and as Jade remarked not all cats will eat it, I know none of mine ever would. perhaps if they were started on it as a kitten it would be different (?)

I only hope that Jackal is able to get his kitty eating and healthy once again. And I believe we are all trying to help him out with our suggestions......

[nancyjac]

I don't want to hijack jackal's thread into a discussion of the relative merits of different types of cat foods.  My only intent was to suggest a nutrient and calorie dense food that is easy to chew and digest given the particular's of his cat's current situation.  Different cats have different needs and even the same cat may have different needs under different circumstances.

[jackal2001]

We have gotten one can of Hills a/d just incase.  It states right on the can to use intermittently only.  We didn't open it yet.
Yes I know that Science Diet is as bad as all the other brands.

We did go to the store and got him some fancy feast.  He ate a 1/3 can last night with no problems.  This morning I gave him a nother 1/3 can and he ate most of it.

After years of eating nothing but good foods, I would hate to have him go solely back on fancy feast, but I will if I have to.

His solid gold, tiki cat, I also tried avoderm, etc are very soft foods as well.  I just don't know why he isn't eating them anymore.  Maybe because the vet gave him that hills a/d  now he wants the junk food.

Back when he had teeth and was eating dry food, the only good dry food that I was able to have him eat regulary was Taste of the Wild Rocky Mountain:  http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/products/cats/rocky_mountain_feline_formula/

Now he won't be eating dry food anymore, so I will have to feed him whatever he eats and then slowly putting the good food along side of some commercial food later on and see if he starts eating the good stuff again.

[Jade59]

I'm so happy to hear your cat is eating!  That's the most important thing right now.  You sound like you know exactly what you're doing.  It's okay kitty doesn't eat hard food anymore.  There's been a lot of discussions about diet on this forum and it seems wet food is much better anyway...kitty needs the moisture and since cats don't normally drink a lot of water, this is a good way to keep those crystals from forming.  

[duranca]

Hi Jackal, I've read your discussion and your situation sounds eerily familiar to what I'm going through with my own cat now.  My cat is 9 and 1/2 years of age and I just took him for his first dental and he had to have 5 teeth extracted.  Like your cat, my cat developed Horner's sydrome in his left eye and he is having balancing issues.  I'm not too worried about the balancing issues since it hasn't quite been 48 hours since his dental procedure, but can you please tell me when your cat finally returned to eating normal amounts of food?  Also, please advise if/when your cat's eyes returned to normal.  Any insight you can thrown my way would be greatly appreciated.  I am quite worried.  
-Carole

[opus88]

hi and welcome, you posted a question on an old post, almost from a year ago....maybe if you sent Jackal a private message you would get a reply...I don't think she's a regular on this forum anymore and won't see your question.

I hope your kitty has recovered by now for you?.....the balance issues should have resolved by now and as far as his eyes, do you mean they are dilated? this could be caused by the drug atropine used commonly during surgery to regulate the heart, and if this is the cause the eyes should return to normal as soon as the drug effects have worn off...

I hope her mouth is feeling better now, it will take a few days, give her soft foods that she enjoys...very important to keep her eating at least small amounts, her mouth should feel normal within a few days of the extractions.....is/was she on something for pain?

best to you both♥

[duranca]

Hi!  Thanks so much for writing.  I had already sent Jackal a direct message in addition to my post.  

My cat, Tigger, is almost 10 and just had 5 teeth extracted.  He was a mess when I picked him up.  Like Jackal's cat, Tigger developed Horner's syndrome, but only in his left eye.  It causes that third (inner) eyelid to rise, and the pupil is constricted. According to some info online, the problem usually resolves itself in a couple of months.  I hope this is true, because Tigger's eye looks droopy and he looks a bit disfigured.  

Also, like Jackal's cat, Tigger won't eat his regular food.  Finally got him to eat a Premium cracker yesterday.  He really reacted when he saw the bag of dry food so I put some of the food in a bowl and let it soften in water for a bit. I was relieved that he ate some of it. Today, I followed the same diet, crackers and moistened dry food.  He's not eating nearly as much as I'd like, but he's eating, so I'll take that for now.      

[MommyV35]

I had an 11 year old male Cat that had to be briefly sedated due to an extremely infected anal gland, that would have caused too much pain to clean out the infection without sedation. He was put in a small clear plastic container with a place for an oxygyn tube and a tube for the anesthesia. He was only under for a few minutes but was never able to fully recover. His pupils stayed dilated and he was off balance, lethargic, no appetite, would only walk a couple of feet and fall over and cry out. I took him back to the Vet several days in a row to get IV Fluids etc, but unfortunantly after 5 days I had to euthanize. Sometimes as with humans even with normal labs and bloodwork there can still be serious complications depending on the feline. I have several Cats that have had various procedures that required sedation and that was the only one that ever had such a reaction.