Chiari Malformation Community
Has it ever been proven or found that chiari was caused or worsened by ...
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Has it ever been proven or found that chiari was caused or worsened by an accident?

I am wondering if anyone knows of any cases personal or otherwise where Chiari has been found to have been caused by an accident or proven that symptoms brought about by an accident? Does that make sense? lol
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620923_tn?1405964489

  Hi and welcome to the Chiari forum.

Yes, a MVA can trigger chiari symptoms that have been dormant or make those worse that have been active.

Depending on the force of the impact, it is possible for it to actually cause acquired chiari.

  "selma"
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1063386_tn?1287882169
Mine all started from a car wreck.  But prove that........ No doctor I have met will say that.  
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Avatar_f_tn
I was told awhile back that usually you are born with Chiari, but things like a car accident, getting beat in the head and so forth can cause it to be worse and maybe symptoms will flare up. Idk though...that was just one doctor's opinion.
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I was also told "born with it" BUT symptoms went crazy in an accident where I passed out (unknown Cause) landed face first on a tile floor and dislocated my jaw... from there things got worse for about five years before I was needing real help.  I can trace so many of the issues back to that day! I have a bad history of head accidents, I am a bit prone to this for some reason, multiple concussions to contribute too and natural child birth twice, Headaches increased after having my kids.  I believe with accidents really can trigger the issue by making the herniation worse.  -zygy
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1759188_tn?1324681908
i had a disc operated on in 99 by a very good ns  i fell on the ice in 07 not once but 3 times  i was diagnosed that day with chiari   my ns from 99 said it wasnt there when he did surgery. i read that you can be born with it or a serious head trauma can cause it.  your rite No dr. will say that
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Avatar_f_tn
Thats how mine all started- I am still going through the lawsuit. I have been going to counseling for it as well- I lost my job, house over it-My husband took a job 14 hours away so I have a new set of doctors who have diagnosed me with Post Tramutic Stress Disorder- which they can link to the car accident- Its around about way of getting it done-
Now all I have to do is proove that the car accident triggered the Chiari Symptoms to light.
The closest I have come to it is my Neurologist telling me that my vestibular head injuries I have gotten in the accident have nothing to do with the Chiari....but I can't seem to get it in writing yet...
.
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1759188_tn?1324681908
i love this site  !!!  my surgeon put it post op papers that it was caused  by the fall but won't put it in writting.  the surgeon who did surgery said i didnt have it in 99 and put that in a letter.  i just know you can't fake this pain, you can't even invent this pain, i didnt ask for this and if i wanted my life affected it wouldn't be this !!!
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Avatar_f_tn
My doctor said that she believes I was born with Chiari.  Although I've had back problems for as long as I can remember and had migraines for the last 14 years, I've only had severe neck and upper back problems for the last two years - ever since I slipped and fell in my kitchen.  That's when I really believe the Chiari symptoms were set in motion.
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Avatar_f_tn
For my case, I have been compiling all the links I can find that say anything about chiari being caused or symptoms being caused by an accident.  I will bring to my attorneys.  I have one for my Work comp case-started when hit on head at work.  And one to MVA attorney-pain totally intensified when rearended 4 months ago,  I would definitely like others going through the same thing to keep in touch and maybe we can help each other with this battle of proof!!!
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1759188_tn?1324681908
  to dyinginpain,

                       i mentioned the brain injury association alot, they are located in many states. the have a list of attorneys who specialise in head injury cases.  it's the doctors who will not put in documention that it is caused by a head trauma. there is little known about this. i have a well known ns who did surgery on my c-5 and he put in a letter "it was not there when he did surgery 8 yrs earlier." he did a mylogram and he went all the way up.so if it was there it would have.  i dont understand why it can't be caused my a head injury.obviously it is when a child is born. it says it's caused by going through the birth canal. if that's not a head trauma !!!  lol  when i first looked into this itwas said it could be caused by a head trauma, now i can't find it any where.  if you find anything please let me know  and i the same for you
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1581710_tn?1306878204
I had already been diagnoised and having symptems when I was in a MVA in Feb of this year. I hit a car who ran a stop sign and it most definately made everything worse for me ...... and the worst part is due to the whip lash the doctor who was going to book the surgery had to post pone it because he would not cut into my neck like that (ok I am sure that was a good call but holly hell I hurt) I am seeing another doctor a few hours away on Monday and hope to have better luck.
Also I am so far not able to have a specialist put down that it is worse due to the MVA but do have a letter saying the surgery had to be put off because of it so fingers crossed that is a start for the law suit.
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Avatar_f_tn
I looked into my local brain injury assoc. per your recommendation.  They got back to me quickly and said she is not a dr but wondered if I might have suffered a concussion as well as rest and will send me info.  They don't have any familiarity with Chiari at all though.  I email you a page of links gathered so far too.
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Avatar_f_tn
Sorry to hear about your accident, pain, & troubles with this as well!  The more stories I hear of the more frustrated I get, I don't understand why drs have such a hard time with saying that Chiari is worsened by an accident etc.  Its certainly not on every Chiari page, but I have found quite a few that state that.  Seems to be relativiley new though that this is being acknowledged.  Hopefully we can all help each other with our experiences & struggles.
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Avatar_f_tn
i never had any problems until i hit my head and it was all down hill from there!  week after week things became worse.  vertigo, pain in back of head and neck, hard to swallow, numbness in face and arms.  like i said no problems until i hit my head.  i was born with the chiari and it never was an issue until i hit my head.
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My close friends husband developed Chiari after he was rearended in a car accident. Surgery was within 3 weeks of the car accident.
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1306714_tn?1327260680
All the research I have found states we are born with chairi, but I know for me falling, dropping thing's heavy lifting sure made my chairi progress enough to have to have surgery.  I am sure an accident would put a lot of pressure on the brain and cause more problems.  Sorry about the accident, but dealing with insurance co.  It will probably be a hard thing to prove.  As for some of you already said.  Dr's won't put nothing in writing.
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Avatar_n_tn
I can't believe  so many of us are having the same problem
with this.  

Please see www.*****.com and search Trauma Testimonials.
You will see more people who have had this problem.

I spoke to a NS Expert Witness in Florida who told me I
will never find a NS in Florida who will back me up.  

I'm not quitting.  Can anyone help with a NS in Florida
who has backed them up on a MVA making a Chiari
symptomatic/worse?

Thank you,
Maureen 101
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620923_tn?1405964489

  Hi.....I do not  know if this is something ne Dr would agree to sign a statement to, but, they will tell  us that a MVA can aggravate and trigger symptoms....the problem is for the most part many with chiari have congenital chiari not acquired....if it were dx'd acquired, then mayb a Dr could in fact make the statement that the MVA made chiari worse or created it in the first place...but with congenital chiari it is not an easy line to draw.

  DO u know if ur chiari is congenital or acquired?

    "selma"
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Avatar_f_tn
I know that my symptoms were brought on about a month after a slip & fall accident where I ended up with a minor concussion & whiplash. Tile floor, fabric softener spill by my then 2 year old, and I slid and hit my head on the door. A month later I started having dizzy spells, would get car sick, had a weird buzzing sensation in my entire body, headaches, & numbness in my arm and hand. I'm sure I had CM before the fall due to some symptoms in the past, but the fall certainly brought on a flare of symptoms. Over about 14 months my symptoms slowly got better & most went away entirely. However, I've started having some symptoms come back lately & am obviously not happy about that.

In fact, the symptom checklist sent to me from the Wisconsin Chiari Center asked something about having your symptoms start within a few months of an accident.
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Avatar_n_tn
Thank you for your reply.  You are a real trouper when it
comes to your support of this site!

I had an MRI in 2000 which stated I was at upper limits of normal,
NO DEFINITE CHIARI 1 MALFORMATION. I was having no Chiari
symptoms at that time.  Then with  MVA 2008 herniation descended to 6 mm with terrible Chiari symptoms.

Have you heard of a reputable and compassionate NS in the
Jacksonville, FL  area.  Not able to travel.    Also, is there a way to
ameliorate (sp?) MRI'S making symptoms much worse.

Thank you,
God Bless
101
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620923_tn?1405964489

  Hi...many with chiari have had a MVA trigger the symptoms ...and there r things u can do to try to keep things from getting worse if that is what u were asking...we all have diff activities in our daily lives that may be a trigger...something we need to avoid. Know ur triggers and get the rest u need...and keep a journal of ur triggers and avoid them when possible.
http://www.medhelp.org/health_pages/Neurological%20Disorders/Activities-to-avoid-with-Chiari-and-Syringomyelia/show/986?cid=186

The problem with the 2000 MRI report, is they r using old criteria for when to determine chiari...they go by herniation and that is not the only criteria and it is not the most important...so, that is not a trust worthy report, but  do get copies to take along for ur NS to compare.

I have to ask u to re ask ur question-[Also, is there a way to
ameliorate (sp?) MRI'S making symptoms much worse. ]

I am not sure what u r asking ...

  "selma"
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Avatar_n_tn
Hi Selma,

Thanks for your reply.  I did have a NS say he would back
me up in front of two other people and then he never followed
through.  I do have additional MRI's (3) since '08 MVA.

Will followup with doctors here.  

Maureen
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620923_tn?1405964489

  Good luck and do keep us posted....they seem to say one thing and do another...next time they say they will do it have a pre written statement  ready all they have to do is sign it....

   "selma"
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Avatar_f_tn
I didn't even get to ask my chiari dr yet since cdnt think by the time all tests were done. But have a followup w him in 2 weeks. Will ask all questions then. My surgery is scheduled for the 7th. One new question that popped in my head for all you that had the surgery is:  did your memory improve after the surgery?
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Avatar_n_tn
I wish you well on your surgery!

I did not have the surgery so I don't know about memory improvement.

I do have a novel way of dealing with pain that is very
effective if you want to learn.  Better explained over
the phone....natural...no drugs. Takes 5-10 minutes max.
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Avatar_n_tn
Selma,

That's a great idea.  I wish I had thought of
it.  Thank you Selma!

MRI tomorrow.  Anyone out there know of
a good NS in Jacksonville, Florida?
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620923_tn?1405964489

  Did u look at our list of Drs ?

I know there is one in Miami...and not sure there is one right in Jacksonville....but do take a look at the list and do some research of the drs on it.

   Glad u liked my idea : )

     "selma"
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Avatar_f_tn
I was told that I was born with it but symptoms weren't severe until after I had two falls/concussions about 4 months apart.  I had moderate symptoms since I was about 16, however I had no idea what was causing the dizziness, etc.  As a teenager, I was told that I was probably having panic attacks so I dismissed all of my episodes.  Anyways, my doctor thinks that the falls seriously intensified chiari problems.  
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Avatar_m_tn
Hi fellow sufferer, lol I just moved to Fl from Vegas and finally saw NS today. I'm being sent to UAB. I was given choice of Shanz in Gainsville or Birmingham. UAB is closer to me near Pensecola. But was told both had Great NS specializing in this condition. Hope it helps. I hope I get a call quickly to go to UAB. Today was yhe first time ever I got real answers and was totaly taken seriously. Praying you all find relief in some way.
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Avatar_n_tn
Nice to meet you.  Sorry its under these circumstances.
I too lived in Las Vegas several years ago.

Could you tell me the name of the NS at Shands you were
referred to.  I was referred to one but I cannot remember his
name.  When I looked up his bio on healthgrades Chiari was not
listed as his main interest although I was told it was.
Is UAB an airforce base?

Have a pain free day.
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Avatar_n_tn
how do i prove this i'm 36 yrs old never had a problem untill i fell at work and now i have a 9mm chiari malformation. i am a maintenance mech i also gotot the gym 5-7 days a week well i used to until i fell a year ago. now they are trying not to pay for my surgery cause they say i was born with it?
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620923_tn?1405964489

  Hi and welcome to the Chiari forum,

Chiari is a congenital condition that symptoms can be triggered by an accident  such as a fall, or MVA even a hard sneeze or cough.

Only ur Drs, be they Chiari specialists can tell u if ur Chiari is congenital or acquired by the force of the fall.....

If the Drs determine urs to be congenital, then u have no leg to stand on, even tho the fall triggered the symptoms.

For those that have always had Chiari some r not aware of all the symptoms they have always dealt with as they consider them "normal"....They should cover ne injuries that resulted in the fall...so u need to determine is it acquired or congenital.

Please keep us posted
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Avatar_n_tn
Thanks for getting back to me so quick! all my doctors say the fall could of triggerd the chiari. my point is i have done a lot of heavy lifting and been tossed around and i have never had a issue very healthy very fit i
'm a maintenance tech working on lifts lines exc. before that i climbed tree's for the power lines i just feel like i would of had problem's by now as much as i put my body thru. i only had problems after a fell on my neck. i read of others having the same issue but they had problems before the age of 20 the others that have problems after seems to be in cause of some kinda of accident. workman's comp was sending me to pt for buldging disks but once they told me i had chiari then it was cause i was born with it. i'm just really fustrated. don't get me wrong if this help then great i have been in pain over a year. i still think it's because of the fall.

thanks for you imput!
Angelique
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620923_tn?1405964489

As I said u need someone to determine if ur Chiari is acquired or congenital, it is typically a congenital condition, but it is  possible to develop as a result of an accident.

It is also possible to have it with no symptoms or issues, so it can be there ur whole life and u not be aware of it until u have an accident or fall....then it changes and u will notice going forward....so, it is hard to say,and of course if  the ins comp can get out of paying they will....
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Avatar_n_tn
I have a Chiari accident situation so unbelievable you will say, "How
can this possibly be", but it is I lived it. I just finished a Chiari made
symptomatic accident case that lasted FIVE years and 3 different
attorneys.  I did not have the terrible Chiari symptoms before
but I was disabled from a previous head injury.  Because the
symptoms can be somewhat similar the case ended up miniscule
for the amount of heartache and stress endured.  The man that
hit me had (I AM NOT KIDDING) one eyeball that was so distorted
by being freakously located in the very corner of his eye you could
only see his iris and the other eye was gazing out in left field.  This
man is still driving with a drivers license and was never given
a medical test.  Oh, by the way he claimed he "lost his brakes"
and hit me from behind at a light.  Oh, also by the way this guy
worked (maybe still does) for a well known auto insurance company.
Yes, yes, yes car accidents do make Chiari's worse and symptomatic
but this is what you are up against.


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620923_tn?1405964489

  I know these things are hard to get a big win on as it is not well understood and an accident can trigger symptoms, but they see it as a congenital condition so, it is hard to get the pain and suffering covered.....

There is no way to know if ur symptoms would have increased or remained insignificant...as this "guy" hit u and changed ur reality....

SO sorry, hope u have gotten some relief.
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Avatar_n_tn
Selma,

Thank you for your reply.

I look at this as as educational experience from which to
learn.  

I will always share my findings of things that help as
evidenced by my last post.  May my experiences help
others.

You are so kind and devoted to us by your open forum.
It must take enormous time and energy on your part.

May you be finding relief as well..

Kind regards,
Maureen
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