Possible Chiari-Car accident-Work Comp

Hi everyone!! I am so glad to have found this forum!! I had never heard of Chiari until I went to see a neurolgist, for what I thought was a pinched nerve from a minor car accident (I was going 20-25 and hit a cement pillar) because I had severe burning in my arms, tingling in hands and feet. No headaches except the one from going back to work and I thought the severe neck pain was normal for whiplash. He did my eye test and he thought I had Chiare and ordered an brain MRI.

The MRI report from radiologist did not state no chiari malformation, but stated no this that or the other such as no water on the brain. It just that it was a normal brain MRI. I have had an array of symptoms but overall no headaches, the worst is when I went back to work to my desk job and after a day of sitting in a hard desk chair I had the worst neck pain which had hurt before (it hurts not at the bottom of my skull but kinda in the middle between the bottom of skull and shoulders, which is close to the bottom) I also had the worst pain that went up the side of my face that went numb and behind my eyes. Percocet wouldn't touch it. I had to rest for 3 days to get rid of it.

Also I lose my balance, I can remain standing up straight most of the time until I close my eyes, then I am swaying. I have jaw, ear and throat pain when i sit up too long even on the couch. The problem is this is workers comp. I have an attorney, thank God. I see the NL tomorrow for EMG/Nerve test and he is going to tell me the results of his interpretation of my brain, cervical, and lower back MRIs. Oh an one more thing I have severe stiffness in my legs.

I contacted the Chiari Institute in NY and they said I can send my films in and they would evaluate if I need to see NS which don't take insurance. Whats up with that?? After my MRI came back they dr office said well as of now ur MRI is neg but the NL will keep looking and I go back tomorrow. I hope to hear some truth. But I told my work who my NL was and I told NL it was work comp. I am afraid I messed up and won't get good diagnosis but I am honest person.

Any advice? Go to NY and pay out of pocket?? Also any advice on sitting at a chair for long periods? Work Comp is not paying me and forcing me to go back to work. And I am gonna fight hard through this not to lose everything I have worked for!! Thanks!

[Spaceystac]

Hi, welcome to the community!
I was reading your post and thought it might be useful to try and get a copy of the reports of your MRI's so you know what it says. Im not sure about how you are wording it, it sounds like you dont have enough csf fluid on there?or it is a tight space? I would be helpful in helping you learn more about what is going on.

  Try getting up from the chair at least every 30 minutes of so and get the blood flowing to your legs. Sitting puts more pressure on your spine than most other normal activities so you should try that to prevent damage from sitting too much.

Im in the same boat with insurance being not very insuring lol, I dont really have advice for that sorry.   Stacey  

[meshell_32]

Isn't it frustrating?? Dang work comp has got to be the worst. My reports lists no tumor, no water on brain (but medical term), no this, no that, but it don't specify no chiari malformation and that is what my NL ordered it for. But it says normal brain. It didn't make sense that they would not state no chiari malformation when that is why my NL ordered it!!

The sitting on the couch is even bad and give me pressure in my jaw, ears, and sore throat, but the hard desk chair is horrible, I was thinking maybe a pillow to sit on the chair. I am also having twitching all over!! I am currently sitting for CPA exam and the work comp is not paying my benefits so I have to work, I am thinking maybe a pillow to sit on for now?? I know its gonna be hard if I have malformation less than 5mm with work comp but I am gonna fight it if I have to!! Even go to NY lol or whereever I need to go!!

[meshell_32]

Also, what are some good things to ask the NL tomorrow. Should I just come out and ask him if he found chiari and what did he base that on?? I don't want him to think I am crazy and already know everything about it and making up my symptoms because its work comp. But I have even got worse since the first time I seen him 2 weeks ago. Maybe its MS it can be brought on by car accident. Who knows?? I am so scared of misdiagnosis because it is work comp and drs are scared of court. I don't know what to do, I am desperate and don't want to lose everything!! Thanks for all your help!!

[Spaceystac]

yes it is frustrating. It is hard to deal with. I have a lot of the symptoms you describe, but I have a syrinx and "no chiari". I also feel that it is just not 5mm below the formen magnum ect. but I have looked at my images and there is not enough room in there. Blockages of csf flow causes issues and that is the true cause of the symptoms, not the distance of which your cerebral tonsils herniate.    I hope they can get you a cine flow study, maybe that will make then see what is going on with flow obstructions.    

[meshell_32]

where is your syrinx? I have had cervical and lower back mri and no note of one. They say the stiff legs are a sign you have one. I wonder if its possible to be in my middle back or the MRI missed it. All of this has just BLEW my mind. We'll see what the NL says tomorrow!!! Thanks for your help!

[Spaceystac]

I would ask the doctor to check your neck as well. Not sure it that was done or not but that would be my next thing to look at, in a accident like yours.

[meshell_32]

Yes I know when I move my neck side to side I hear a grinding noise. I did have neck MRI and it said mild bulging disk, which I doubt is causing my problems. Certinately not my ear and jaw pressure and sore throat. Who knows at least I had a dr first off recognize my symptoms!!

[selmaS]

  Hi and welcome to the Chiari forum.

It is not an easy thing to deal with our Health...goodness knows, but u found us here and u have found TCI to get some sound info that is a great start.

Good luck with the EMG...I had one, I did not care for it, but it lets u know what is going on with the nerves...also ask about a MRI of ur LUMBAR spine as well.....to rule out tethered cord.

Not all radiologists will mention chiari and if they do, ur dr may say ur MRI is "normal" as many feel the malformation is "normal"...or is incidental and will not cause symptoms.This is one of the reasons we urge members to find a true chiari specialist...such as TCI, or one  of the many drs we have on a list for u to research from ....http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Chiari-Malformation/LIST-OF-CHIARI-SPECIALISTS/show/1293483

AS far as TCI NS's no they do not work with insurance, but the rest of the staff do, so the NL do, and the hospital and the MRI location they use up there all do...and they can tell u what it will cost u up front for the Dr....

I had my surgery at TCI..I was happy with the drs and the insurance issue was not an issue as a dr that takes insurance but has no idea how to help is not good either.


Stacey gave great advice about getting up and walk around every 30 mins that is what drs will tell u using a lumbar pillow can help too, sitting correctly...posture is everything.

Plus, we do have a link for non profits that may be able to help u and u and ur family and friends can do fund raisers to help u raise the money to help u pay ur medical bills.

http://www.medhelp.org/health_pages/Neurological%20Disorders/Links/show/538?cid=186

We r happy to have u join us but not happy for the reasons that bring u.

  "selma"

[meshell_32]

Thanks and I am glad to find you guys too!! I am gonna do whatever it takes. I have coordination problems typing so thats gonna be an issue too the wrist support helps too.

I had lumbar spine (lower back) MRI. I have not had thoracic (middle??) done. The radiologist just found one bulging disc possible pinching sciatic nerve. My NL is gonna read them for second opinion. His office said my file has stayed on his desk. I hope he is able to help me. What did ur emg show?? Will is show if the cellebrum is pushing on brain stem or spinal cord?? Thanks for all your help....I have just begun this journey!!

[LisaM46]

Just curious... I can't see a connection - why would workers' comp cover you if this all started with a car accident?  Were you on the job in the car when it happened?

[meshell_32]

Yes traveling for work...

[LisaM46]

That's gonna be messy... If your symptoms are from Chiari, they'll probably just leave you at  "pre-existing condition".  Long, tough road there, especially considering the lack of knowledge of chiari out there.

[meshell_32]

Wow Lisa I just looked at your pics...it looks horrible....Did it fix your symptoms?? I knew something was wrong when I was nauseated at the ER after it happened, made dr do CT scan, thought I had concussion.

[meshell_32]

Yes its gonna be messy, I am an auditor and travel out of town in my car....thank God I had 5000 med pay to pay for NL here...that is why I have attorney...on my side though...(I believe) is that I had a feveral convulsion at 5 (I am 32) and the children hospital keeps records for life they can pull up my brain scan from that time. Even if I was born with it, it aggravated my symptoms and our state also has a second injury fund. My attorney said that won't work. Its just getting help is going to be the battle. Once I see my brain scan, hopefully I will be able to see it. I know its gonna be horrible long journey!! Hopefully my attorney and a specialist can speed up the process. More than ANYTHING, hopefully it is severe whiplash and not this!!

[meshell_32]

All I can do is leave it to God and pray!!

[LisaM46]

I don't know if anyone's pic's look pretty!  ; )  
The pressure in my head was reduced  pretty much right away.  The pain in my hands and feet is gone.  Not as nauseated now...  When I drive too far/too much, my neck & head hurt worse and I get pretty wiped out, as happened last weekend & this Tuesday.  But, I'm only 3 months post-op.  I think I'm healing pretty well - I haven't had any complications so far, knock on wood.
So... "fix", I would say it did fix enough of the symptoms for me to say, at this point, that it was worth it to have the surgery.  (Sorry such a choppy reply... I have the flu right now, so feeling yukky.)
Lisa

[LisaM46]

I wish you luck.  I used to be a legal secretary, and we did some workers' comp.  Messy & takes forever.  And, as if the insurance companies don't try to screw you on just "regular" stuff, I couldn't stand to see what they did to the "little guy".

[selmaS]

  Oh well then yes, u should have a thoracic MRI as well, this rules out bulging disks and a syrinx in that area.

I was dx with tarsal tunnel and had one surgery for it, but was still having issues....I was told I also had carpal tunnel ...the EMG proved I did not and my surgery I had was not necessary....I did not have pinched nerves, but the signals were not getting thru due to chiari.

The EMG will only show if the nerves r damaged.....nothing about the brain stem at this point....the MRI's will show if there is compression.

"selma"

[meshell_32]

Eww...I had the flu already this winter....horrible....my hands hurt as well....one of my worst symptoms since I type alot for a living. Also I will stutter or say an off the wall word during a sentence. *****!! Thanks for the info and I hope u feel better soon!!

[meshell_32]

So you had your emg done before the surgery?? What about nerve conduction test, they are doing that tomorrow too. Is he doing this to rule out carpel or another pinched nerve then I don't get it. Anyone else would say these symptoms are in my head, but unfortunately they are real, I get new symptom every day almost it seems!! I am sure people are going to start telling me that!!

[LisaM46]

Oh yeah, before surgery, I would occasionally say a "wrong" word in a sentence, or when typing, the wrong word (or like, to for two, etc.) would show up.  I was just thinking I hadn't caught myself doing that since surgery either.
Thanks for the well wishes, I'm sure I'll feel better tomorrow.
L

[meshell_32]

I have everything except daily head aches (just a stiff neck) and difficulty swallowing, I am so scarced they are going to say oh its whiplash and I am gonna be screwed!! Geez this is a curse!!

[meshell_32]

screwed I meant...geez thats what I am talking about...I will be screwed....won't be able to find...this is why I leave it in God's hands....thats all I can do....

[meshell_32]

let me try this again scared they are gonna screw me on this and I won't even be able to find other employment...in my conditon...hope and pray is all I can do....thanks for all your help!!

[selmaS]

...lol...see what chiari does to us...lol....no worries : )

[meshell_32]

I know you have to laugh about it or you it will drive you crazy!! Even my twitching is embarrasing and I even have to laugh about it...I said my stomach twitching should have me a 6 pack of abs by summer HAHA!!

[selmaS]

  ...oh I know when I was still working one woman accused me of looking at her with one eye???...WTH..I have no idea what that means or why she was offended...I had not idea I was doing nething as I meant nothing...lol....

Oh if only that would work...twitching would replace crunches....hahaha

[meshell_32]

Thats what I said!! Its the same concept as that belt HAHA!! On a serious note, the eye test is what made my NL think Chiari...he may be hesitant to diagnose cuz of wc...thats why i was thinking of the TCI for help at least a diagnosis so my attorney can fight for treatment!

[selmaS]

  Well like the others mentioned this is going to be an uphill battle as chiari is a congenital condition...unless ur dr  can say urs is acquired from the accident which it may be...but then it would not be chiari, but low lying tonsils....the difference is ur skull would not be malformed...and the force of the MVA forced the tonsils down....many times these herniations may retract on their own, but who knows how long that may take, and in the mean time u will have symptoms...and if it is obstructing CSF it could cause a syrinx to form....so, it is good u have an attrny.

  "selma"

[meshell_32]

Wow....that makes alot of sense! So they will be able to tell?? Good!! Even if its congneital...the MVA is made my symptoms if not appear, made them alot worse to where I will need surgery. All I can do now is try to lessen the symptoms and the pillow on the chair I think is gonna be a help, what about a neck brace to wear to work...I wonder if that will help withe the pressure?? Hmm....thanks so much for the input!! This is a battle regardless of wc lol

[meshell_32]

What really scared me is I woke up in the middle of the night one night and heard like a pounding, I thought someone was throwing a basketball against my house....I couldn't move my body when I woke up for a few seconds...I don't know if it was a dream....or something worse...has anyone had it...I didn't ask at first...didn't want to seem crazy...but I think you all understand where I am coming from....have you heard of such a thing??

[selmaS]

  It all depends on the neck brace...yrs ago, b4 I was dx'd a dr gave me a neck brace it actually made my neck feel worse...but it all depends on each individual..it may help u.

The brace will only help with stability...not pressure....

As for the pounding ..many have described a sound like their heart beat that could be heard in their head...not sure what u heard, but it is possible it was the restriction of CSF echoing the heartbeat....

  "selma"

[pamk5]

Hello and welcome!  Workers comp can be long, nasty, and extremely stressful.  And stress is the last thing we need with chiari.  I wish you luck with your battle.  

I became symptomatic last summer after a car accident where I was sitting still in traffic and was rear ended at high speed. I struck my head on the steering wheel.   So I have a similiar situation that we will be trying to prove that even though the accident didnt cause chiari it made it symptomatic.  I am not sure how it will turn out.  

As far as the pounding goes you describe goes.  I have been having alot of palpitations and particularly at night I can hear my heart beat in my ears.  It may be too like Selma says increased CSF pressure.  

Welcome and best of luck to you!  Keep us posted on what you find out

Pam

[meshell_32]

I will and thank you! What state are you in? I am in Missouri. My symptoms are progressing so fast that I am scared if I don't do something fast, I will have more problems. I know my dr is very iffy about lawsuits, he don't do them. He told me that right off hand and I told him that it was one car accident and I have noone to sue. I told him it happened at work and they were not fighting me but they have since started and they know he is my dr. so I don't know if I trust him to give me independent opinion if that makes sense. I wouldn't put it past wc to call him...we'll see. I need to stop being so honest and grow a heart of steel like the ins companies LOL. Lawsuit or work comp bout the same thing!! I work for the state and they are self-insured so they definately don't want to pay out a dime!! Are you having problems getting medical care/dx??

[pamk5]

I am using my health insurance so no I am not having issues with care or payment.  However, the problem I did have is finding a doctor who knew anything about Chiari.  It took months to get to a specialist and now I am waiting for a surgery date.  I am in NC.  My diagnosis came after the accident in August.  It takes a long time to get the proper treatment with this illness.  

Pam

[meshell_32]

Was yours diagnosed by radiologist and whats the size? I go see my NL tomorrow too see if he found anything and get a copy of my MRIs. I was looking too and fibromylasia mimics Chiari too and can be brought on my accident....wondering if that is a possibility?? My best friend lives in Hickory NC!! I could sure use a visit with her if there is a specialist there!!

[lynn06072010ATL32]

I am still dealing with w/c.After getting hurt @ work and having the worst Dr. that pretty much ignore all my symptoms but I didn't give up, every visit to his office I would tell him that I need to get an MRI done just to make sure and he finally agree and thats when I found out that I had CHIARI MALFORMATION WITH SYRINX, did not know what is it and when I was told that I had it since birth but never had any symptoms until after the accident @ work, I have decided to hire and attorney. After many months of dealing with the w/c they finally agreed to pay for the surgery.
I don't know your situation and how severe is your pain but you might want to see an attorney because workers comp will try to screw you( sorry for the term). I was glad that I did because now I can finally have the surgery.
good luck to you....

[meshell_32]

Hey I emailed you did you get it?? Just dont want details of my case and how its going on the web publically.