10 yo with REALLY bad attitude!

I am homeschooling my 10 yo daughter and this is our 1st year. She generally has a good attitude about most things, will clean anything I ask her to (except her own messes!), but when it comes to doing her lessons, she just melts down! Its not that the work is too hard or too easy. She has times when she behaves really well and breezes right thru, but there are times when she just flat refuses to use her brain! She gets all whiny and wants me to give her all the answers, and she has admitted to pretending not to understand something just to irritate me, but says that she doesn't know WHY she does it. Anyone have any ideas?

[pertykitty]

wow i bet its difficult for her to have gone from a school setting with friends and lunch recess to just mom.  have you talked to her about this? was she given any say about this?  just curious why at this age you decided to try homeschooling?  im sure she needs time with friends as well , so maybe you can find other home school families for field trips or i have heard of shared teaching.  

[koukla29]

I agree with pertykitty on this.  It is very difficult for a child to transition from a school setting with friends to being in home school alone.  It may even feel like a punishment to her.  I agree that you should think about getting involved with other homeschool families or shared teaching to give you daughter the opportunities to socialize with other children.  She needs to feel connected, and she may be feeling isolated.  

[tabsmom]

You both make a lot of sense, but this homeschooling thing was very much a mutual decision. She was having kind of a hard time at school. She's small for her age, and she was getting picked on a lot, and the 1 or 2 really good friends she had were in a different class. She seems to enjoy the being at home part, its the using her brain part that's the problem. We've gone over stuff, and I KNEW that she understood, but she would act like she didn't. When I questioned her about it, she admitted that she DID understand, and was acting like she didn't, but couldn't give me a reason why. I'm starting to think it could be a control issue. Maybe she's just trying to see what she can get away with. I mean, she KNEW she couldn't push her teacher at school very far, but maybe she's trying to see if she can push me.

[koukla29]

I am going to be very frank with you, if you pulled your daughter out of school because she was not socially accepted, you are not doing her a service by keeping her in home school.  Ask the prinicipal to switch her class.  Your daughter needs to be around other children, and it's very important for her to learn to work out her battles.  THis doesn't mean you cannot step in and help out the situation - especially in elementary school.  However, she needs to learn social skills, she needs to learn how to speak up, and what to do if she is being bullied.  She will learn many life lessons - even hard ones when she faced with challenges.

Please consider putting her back into school if this is the only reason you pulled her out.  I have seen children pulled out for the very same reason, and believe me it doesn't get any easier for them at 13,15, 18 - she needs to learn and she needs your help.  You can always request class changes.  

In addition, unless you are a teacher yourself, it is very hard to homeschool a child, and give them the same quality of education.  Teachers are held accountable to continue to learn the most effective methods of teaching children.  School are held accountable for showing academic improvement in all children.  Good luck to you and your daughter.

[Agiesmom]

Good for you for deciding to home school.

The whole "socialization" thing is considered to be quite humorous to those of us who home school.  When have you, as an adult, had your boss take your lunch money?  Has anyone at your office ever beat anyone else up on break?  Have you ever been called fat or retarded at work?  How can anyone justify the necessity of being subjected to such behavior as a "learning experience"?

Our socialization consists of positive interaction between kids of all ages in a supervised environment.  What school wouldn’t happily accept an offer of a 1:4 teacher/student ratio on the playground?

I think you are doing a wonderful thing by your daughter to take her out of school.  Children are easily influenced by others, so why would you want to surround your child by people who are cruel and mean and unkind with very little supervision?  Kids learn by example.

Those who disapprove of home schooling most likely have no experience with it or know anyone who does it.  They read about the two or three mentally ill parents who did horrendous things (because they are mentally ill) who happen to have also home schooled and define all home schoolers that way.  But we don’t judge all public schools based upon the horrible incidents that occur in some public schools.

You would be very surprised to realize how many former public school teachers are now home schoolers.  I have two college professor friends and one former gifted and talented public school teacher friend who home school.  And I have two other former public school teacher friends (and one current public school teacher friend) who are strong home schooling advocates.  I have two friends who have husbands who are currently public school teachers.  One of these men recently told me that they lost two teachers in his school last year—they both quit to home school their own children.

But don’t take my word for it or anyone else’s against it.  Educate yourself on the subject—talk to people with experience with BOTH home schooling and public school.  Read statistics on schools and home schooling and education in general.  I assure you that you will find a much better argument for doing what you did than you will for putting her back into school.

Regarding lessons, I've experienced resistance, too.  I have found a curriculum that works wonderfully for my son, but I also supplement it with subjects of interest to him.  He learns and retains things that are of interest to him at the time better than if I try to force feed him something he's not ready to learn.  In 4th grade, he wanted to learn Chemistry, but I could not find a 4th grade chemistry curriculum.  So he studied the periodic table of elements, did some interactive lessons online, and read an Usborne Book on chemistry.  We took a trip to England three years ago and studied the British monarchy and government.  We went to New York and studied immigration and he learned some family history, too.  His interest in Ancient Civilizations was piqued by a Renaissance Faire we attended.  He then asked about Medieval Times and he's now already started his curriculum for next year and is studying Mesopotamia.  He also isn't a morning person, so he does his work in the early afternoon (and sometimes in the evening after dinner).

It's really hard for people to get this because the institutional indoctrination we received growing up is very hard to shake.  It's hard to grasp that there may be another (and perhaps better) way.  Many new-to-home-schooling parents tend to want to do "school at home" (imitating a school environment) between the hours of 7 and 3.  But when you are working one on one with a child and don't have to make sure that 30 kids are keeping up, everyone’s getting a potty break, someone doesn’t need to go to the nurse, kids aren’t talking and being disruptive, etc., you can do the same amount of work in less time.

And don't let anyone scare you into believing that you can't do this.  While it truly can be unnerving to someone who has spent years in college acquiring a degree to teach large groups of children in a school environment, this is not what you are doing.  And you don't sit in a room in your house all day alone (like many seem to think for some reason).  You facilitate your child's education in many ways--by teaching directly, encouraging her to seek out information on her own, hiring a tutor for a subject, enrolling her in a co-op class, dual-enrolling her in school (you can enroll your child into a specific public school class here as a home schooler--some do this for biology classes involving dissection and classes that include chemistry labs)--there are so many resources out there.  You can do this.

I'm speaking from experience here--not some preconceived notion based on negative propaganda or incorrect assumptions.  Seriously--find out how children learn and teach to your child’s learning modalities (my child is a kinesthetic and visual learner).  It's so much more effective than forcing her to learn in a way that does not suit her.

Email me if you want to talk more about this or have any questions.  ***@****

Best wishes!

[Agiesmom]

Oops...guess you can't email me!

So I'll just add here that I think you should seek out a home schooling orgainization or support groups in your area.  There are so many things to do here--several park days each week, playground games, P.E. classes, sports, three co-ops (with so many classes--anything from fencing to French), there are tons of field trips (to t.v. stations, bakeries, computer labs, police stations, veterinary hospitals, museums, etc.) and events (home school conferences, book sales, end of year picnics, etc.) and performances (we go to the dress rehearsals for professional operas and musicals for free and the college art departments put on many performances and give school discounts).  Seriously, there are days when my son asks if we can just stay home because he needs a break and some down time.

Look into your local organizations!

All the best!

[tabsmom]

Thank you SOOOOO much for your encouraging words! Its amazing to me that anyone would be against homeschooling. I realize that many people have preconceived notions about it, but honestly, if I hear the word "socialization" one more time I'm going to throw up. When an adult goes out of the house, does he or she spend the whole day with the exact same people, who are all the exact same age, and spend 6 to 7 hours in the exact same room? NO! And they'd go postal if they did! How can public school classrooms prepare our kids for the real world?! They can't, that's how. My child gets to spend time with people of ALL ages. There's my mother, who is 65. There are the kids at church, who range in age from 1 year old to 15. And, we are in a homeschool group, although we haven't done any activities this year because of financial considerations. But we are planning to do as much as we can this upcoming year. So, over all, its working out great. There's just the one problem with her applying herself, which the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced she's just testing the waters. Which I would MUCH rather see than to have her become a public school robot.

[koukla29]

I am a school counselor who has had to help get students back into their current grade because they WEREN"T homeschooled correctly and they are drastically behind due to the fact that they were in need of services that could not be adequately supplied to them because their parents didn't follow the homeschool curriculum correctly.  

I am not against homeschool - there is nothing wrong with homeschool if done correctly, however, children need social experiences and this SHOULD be part of the curriculum.  Children need to feel included, and they need opportunities to learn to handle conflict.  Because as they get older, the bullies get bigger, and anyone who is naiive enough to tell me there are no "bullies" in the adult world does not work in corporate America.

You can take my advice or leave it, but I stand by my post.  By the way, I also know wonderful parents who are doing homeschool successfully and they coteach, they create experiences for their children, and they allow their children as many social experiences with children their own age as possible.    

[tabsmom]

I couldn't agree more that there is a right way to homeschool and a wrong way to do it. It's a shame that some parents allow their kids to goof off, but please don't assume that all of us are like that. If I weren't concerned about my child's education, I wouldn't be here asking for advice. And, yes, you're right that children need to learn to handle conflict, but I don't think that being in a pressure-cooker for 7 hours a day can accomplish that. The classroom atmosphere is the CAUSE of a lot of kids' problems, not the solution. I know some children that thrive in a school environment. My child does not happen to be one of them.

[StrictlyTopSecret]

IMHO, removing a child from the school system to begin homeschooling is appropriate only in the most unusual of circumstances (e.g., severe illness). Although this was not the question of the original poster, the decision to transition to home-schooling may actually be a piece of the root problem here.

Your daughter seems quite clearly to be challenging (perhaps appropriately) your ability to function in the role of teacher. You must ask yourself: did my child display these behaviors in the traditional classroom setting? If the answer is "no", for the sake of your daughter, you really need to examine that objectively for what it is.

By "rescuing" your daughter from the social demands of school, you send her a subtle message that she is socially incapable, weak and/or in need of extra protection. This is not the message you want to send to your daughter, but it may well be the one she "hears".

[Agiesmom]

It sounds like you have support and are on the right path.  Hang in there with her--she may take some time to "de-school" and find her place.  There are many home schoolers here who are consultants and guide new home schoolers.  I'm sure you'll be able to find some consultants in your area if you need one.

It's unfortunate that the only interaction that those in the public school system have with home schoolers are with those who fail at it.  But for every one who needs to "get back up to speed" in the public school system, there are thousands who work above what the powers that be have determined to be "grade level" (most home schoolers I know do).  However, school district employees never encounter these brilliant, well-adjusted children.  I have also found that when you don't teach to an exam, you end up with children with an amazing variety of knowledge in many different subjects.  Most home schoolers excel in so many areas that are not typically tested at government-determined grade level.  My son, for example, wouldn't have been tested on the states and capitals at age 4, but he knew them all.  And he read at that age, too.  At 6 he knew world geography and could tell you what religion was the most commonly practiced in various countries (he was curious, so we found out).  He knew all the systems of the body (yes, he could name the bones and arteries) when he was 7 and he learned about atoms and DNA in third grade.  He learned quite a bit of chemistry-related topics in 4th grade.  This is not at all atypical of home schoolers.  But none of these things would be on any public school placement exam for each of these "grade levels".  One of my professor friend's sons couldn't read until he was 7, but he was multiplying double-digit numbers in kindergarten.  Ahhh...the beauty of learning things at your own pace--moving ahead when you are ready and spending more time on a subject when you need it.

I think it's great that we have such wonderful choices in education!

Good luck to you!

[pjcontreras]

Hi, I think depending on where you live, there is probably a home schooling"community" of kids/families in your area. I know there are many one line resource groups/clubs.
If you were able to get togeter withsomeother famlies in your area it might help if she had some one her age to talk to, play with. espeically if they were doing something similar.
As and "extra credit" project for her, this is an idea I did with my older son when I was homeschooling him for a part of 6th grade.
I had him write down on a piece of paper 10 subjects he really liked.
It could be anything.
Then I let him put them in a jar and pick one a week if he's really worked well that week. So it became a really fun thing that he looked forward to.
Whatever subject he picked, we tried to make all his assignments revolve around it.
It was really fun. Even math!
Whatever you do, try to incorperate her ideas.
Tell her she needs to help come up with a fun lesson plan for that project.
That it needs to be as "hands on" as possible but still educational.
Have her tell you some really neat things she'd like to learn about: If it is a place she'd like to visit or something...like Mexico for example; you can go to the libray, pick out music,some pretty books about a special dance and the pretty dresses they use. You could have her watch a video on it, try to "put on a show" for you.Have her fix a mexican dinner and let her help cook most of it. Let her make colorful place mats for the dinner out of bright fabric scraps and fun pretty stuff or make those really big beautiful colorful paper flowers (she could put them on the dinner table for decorations)...then have her write a story as if she was a girl growing up living in a city she could read about in Mexico...and what her life there might be like, what her education would be like, also that's when she could put in some facts about coustums, how old the city is where she's from, what her family does for a living....how do most people make a living there. What are the other kids favorite pass time...

Then you could help her learn a few phrases in thar language...or something.
See if something like this might peek her interest, and just "surprise" her with it.
It could be a special project she could do.
Then she could make a really pretty art peice that looked like it was from Mexico.
Just be creative. You already have to be creative to home school any way!!
I hope she might like this idea.

[koukla29]

It's unfortunate that the only interaction that those in the public school system have with home schoolers are with those who fail at it.  But for every one who needs to "get back up to speed" in the public school system, there are thousands who work above what the powers that be have determined to be "grade level" (most home schoolers I know do).  However, school district employees never encounter these brilliant, well-adjusted children."

Please stop making generalizations about public school employees - its ridiculous.  I gave a piece of advice based on my experience, and it was given with the hope to avoid the bad situations that can happen.  

You have no idea what my personal experience is with homeschool, nor do you know if I have "encountered these brilliant, well-adjusted children."  I find your remarks ridiculous and insulting.  

    

[Agiesmom]

My comments were based on my personal experiences and relationships with public school employees (and I have many).  I personally have been told by several public school employees that while they don't judge all home schoolers by the few they see who have failed, it's hard for them when they have to help children of irresponsible parents.  But I've never known any public school employees to attend home school events, classes, co-ops, or conferences in an attempt to better understand and know home schoolers.  If you have done these things, I find that very commendable and respect your thoughts on the subject.

There really is no more need for you view my personal observations and experiences as ridiculous--just as there would no need for me to view yours as such.

I do value the public school system.  It's just not for us.  Just as home schooling isn't for everyone.  And your work truly is valued--even by home schoolers.

All the best!

[tabsmom]

Geez. I didn't mean to start such an uproar! To koukla - I sincerely apologize if I said anything that offended you. Obviously, you are looking at things from a public school angle, since you work at one. You have the right to your opinion, just as I have the right to mine. I'm sure that you are very good at your job, and more power to ya. Kids in public school, kids in private schools, kids in homeschools, kids EVERYWHERE need to know that someone has their best interests at heart. To Agiesmom and pj, if either one of you want to email me so we can discuss homeschooling without upsetting anyone, I'm going to try to type my email address where it will show up on here. Its feelinfroggy at yahoo.

Ladies, let's all just chill out and be friends. Okay?

[tabsmom]

I meant to put feelinfroggy416 at yahoo.

[koukla29]

That's OK - no big deal.  I don't want to argue, and I don't want to be insulted either.  Thank you for acknowledging my interest which is in helping children and families - because that's the only reason I responded to the post.  If you notice I comment on many posts:)  

Please feel free to write more in this post because I know you need support through the forum with your child and motivating her in the home school environment, and you weren't looking for a debate about homeschooling.  I did not mean to go there... really!!!!:)  Best wishes to you and your daughter:)

PS. I am not sure where you live, but where I am, the counselors of elementary schools are usually aware of the home school groups in the area.  Good luck:)

[tabsmom]

Thank you. I feel better now. I honestly didn't mean to start a ruckus. And I DO believe that you genuinely care about children. If you didn't, you wouldn't be so passionate about your point of view. I guess that homeschooling is just a "hot topic" that people are GOING to disagree about. Anyway, thanks for the best wishes, and I hope you have a truly blessed day!  :)

[tabsmom]

And btw. You can email me also, and I promise not to fuss. ;)

[melissaj]

Hi! I agree with koukla, taking her out of school because she is being picked on.. I KNOW is a motherly instinct - wanting to take your child out of danger. However, she needs socialization with kids her age. It may be hard for her to concentrate becasue she is at home - not the usual setting for learning. And no stimulation from other kids and etc.
As far as the bullying...if kids are bullying her.. that is NOT acceptable! You should be at the school complaining, to the teachers, principal, school board.. all the way to the governor. Th is is no way acceptable, and I am appalled at how this happens in schools.. it is CRIMINAL. If an adult does that to another, it is punishable by law! So the schools need to step in and control this.. my gosh! If they don;t learn it in school, then wonder why we have such a violent society???
If you cannot get assistance from the school.. try and private school or a church or religious run school. I know it sounds costly.. but you would be surprised, there are grants and etc that you can get either from the school or state or fed gov.
Also, I would like to point out, if you have not sought out and demanded help from the school, then perhaps you are beinbg too passive. Taking her out of school like this, only teaches her to be passive and never stand up for her right either!

Hope this helps!

[bequiet65]

Tabsmom originally asked for help in dealing with her child when she is acting stupid or actiing up to avoid getting work done.

ASIDE FROM ALL ABOVE CONVERSATION - I have also had that problem with my 15yo (almost 16yo) and it comes down to "I don't want to and you can't make me."    So I don't make him....and he doesn't play video games, see his friends, watch tv or anything else until he does it correctly.  This works for me because he is very "into" his electronics & friends.

Would she work out a "contract" with you that you both agree on the terms?  She'd know if she put out x amount of effort, you make sure she got x amount of reward.

Those are just two things that I can think of that have worked for me or someone else.  I'm sure others can come up with some more.

[bequiet65]

I don't usually put this kind of stuff on a forum but I can't help it this time.

Why would you begin arguing about the appropriateness homeschooling and socialization and 95% ignore what she asked about?  If you didn't have an comment on that issue you didn't need to be writing in just to question her decision to homeschool.  I realize "freedom of speech" and all that, but there is such a thing as manners and common sense.

Anyone would be welcome to visit A to Z Home's Cool Home School website for information that is tried and true and not just opinion about homeschooling.

[tabsmom]

YEAH! What SHE said!