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11 year old girl out of Control
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11 year old girl out of Control

I need help and fast! My daughter is now 11 years old and I've tried almost every tyoe of disipline and it still don't make a difference. I tried the whole if you do this you will get that, if you don't behave there are consequences " losing privleges, groundings, lose of important items. These methods only work for a day or less then she don't don't care any more. I try to give her little chores to do around the house and it's nothing but a constant fight and it never gets done right I have to either make her re-do it or I get so frustrated I have to do it myself. She dis respects my husband, me, and everyone else that may come over and she is constantly bullying her younger brothers. I am at my wits end how do you help your child that  just won't learn her place in the family and is so totally difiant that nothing ever fazes her. Please I need some real help and just to let you know this behaviour is at school also not just at home or with us.


This discussion is related to 11 year old baby.
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13167_tn?1327197724
I don't think you're dealing with behaviors so much,  but personality difficulties.

Has she always been disagreeable or is this kind of new?  I wonder if she's got preteen hormones out of whack,  or is suffering from depression?
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1328507_tn?1275073545
She has been this way for several years now and seen Doctors, therapist and other resources and all they want to do is drug her up, they don't understand that I think this is a life style choice that she is making because the medication makes it worse. This has been going on since she was about 5 or 6 years old and I still can't find a solution.
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Avatar_f_tn
I think RockRose is on to something - personality difficulties.  This can be a mental health issue as well - you might wish to google the phrase "personality disorders in children" or similar words/phrases to see if any of the descriptions remind you of your daughter.  This could be why the medications do not work - medications probably were prescribed for emotional and/or mood disorders and not personality disorders.  Personality disorders tend not to be diagnosed until adulthood as many doctors feel that these disorders only take effect once the "personality" is developed.  Today, many researchers are tending to disagree with this idea (and frankly, so do I).  I really doubt your daughter is choosing to make this a "life style choice".  Anyway, just an opinion ....
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1328507_tn?1275073545
there is also a website attaced to this topis on the let hand side the total transformatic and that website hit the nail right on the head for discribing my child but I will also look into personality disorders. Thank you and please keep the comments coming any help is great because I truely need it.
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Avatar_m_tn
  One of the problems is that you said, "These methods only work for a day or less then she don't don't care any more."  First, this is pretty classic stuff - make the parents feel like it isn't working and they will try something else - and after awhile they give up.  
  You are trying to change a behavior.  If it is a learned behavior, it doesn't change overnight.  Experts say that it will take about 3 weeks of constant cause and effect - for the kid to get the message - and change.  Remember that you are trying to change something that has been going on for quite awhile.  Its like trying to break a habit - try and do that overnight.  A good book that describes in detail how to change these behaviors is, "SOS Help for Parents," by Lynn Clark.
  You said that she also has this behavior at school.  How are her grades?  Is she intelligent and manipulating the system, ie. good grades, but poor citizenship?  Or is she intelligent, but not doing well?  Or does she struggle with everything she does?  What do her teachers say.  What did her teachers last year say.  They have the advantage of seeing a lot of kids.  If she was really bad at school, I would think that they would have been looking at some testing - unless, of course, she was doing well academically.
  Essentially, you really haven't given enough information to pin down the problem.  It could range from ADHD to a kid bright enough to manipulate those around her, to other   ------
     OK, wait, I just read your post where you said, " She has been this way for several years now and seen Doctors, therapist and other resources and all they want to do is drug her up, they don't understand that I think this is a life style choice that she is making because the medication makes it worse. This has been going on since she was about 5 or 6 years old and I still can't find a solution. "  
    This is classic ADHD reaction by doctors.  If it is ADHD, it is NOT a lifestyle choice.  She has no choice in what she is doing.  You do.  YOU need to find out more about ADHD.  The fastest way is this link - http://www.medhelp.org/medical-information/show/2157/Attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-ADHD?page=1#sec_3761.
  I would also highly suggest you immediately order the book -  "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.  So you can find out that there are other ways besides drugging your child.  You need to look into behavioral therapy.  Its not a lot different than what I was talking about in the first paragraph - - it will work with ADHD kids, it just takes a lot longer.
  One other thought, you blame all this on a life style choice- 5 year old kids don't make lifestyle choices.  11 year olds- still pretty early, but by 14 - definitely.  You don't have a lot of time left!   So far nothing you have tried has apparently worked.  Don't you think its time to try something else?  Research ADHD - Its not that there are more solutions than just drugs, its that the whole way of effective discipline changes.  Find a pediatric psychiatrist that is willing to spend time with you and your child.  There is not an easy over night fix, but it can be done.  Good Luck
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Avatar_m_tn
  Oh, I noticed you also said, " the medication makes it worse."  Sounds like you only tried one thing?  What did you try?  How old was she?  What kind of a doctor prescribed it?
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Avatar_f_tn
PLEASE TAKE HER TO A CHILD PSYCHIATRIST AS SOON AS YOU CAN.  YOU ARE ALMOST OUT OF TIME.  SHE NEEDS MEDICATION.  I READ THAT YOU TRIED MEDS, BUT I HOPE YOU CONSIDER RE-TRYING MEDS.  PLEASE, FOR YOUR SAKE BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR YOUR DAUGHTER'S SAKE....GET HER ASSESSED BY A CHILD/ADOLECENT PSYCHIATRIST (NOT PSYCHOLOGIST) AND CONSIDER MEDS.   READ THE STATISTICS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO ADHD KIDS WITH OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANT DISORDER IF THEY ARE UNTREATED WHICH MEANS "UN-MEDICATED."  SERIOUSLY.  ADD A MOOD DISORDER OR CHILDHOOD BIPOLAR AND THE ODDS ARE PRETTY GOOD SHE WILL BE IN JAIL OR WORSE BY THE TIME SHE IS 18. PLEASE GET HER SOME MORE HELP.  IF IT WERE ANOTHER ORGAN IN HER BODY BESIDES HER BRAIN THAT WAS SICK WOULD YOU NOT GET HER THE MEDS SHE NEEDS?  IF SHE WERE DIABETIC?
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1328507_tn?1275073545
Yes I would get her the meds and you all seem to think that this is ADHD is that your professional opinion do you have children that are ADHD and know what I am talking about? you actually think that because acording to everyone and docotors all out of control children are ADHD and have some disorder and need meds and you know what I have a family relative that is ADHD and his son also had it I talked to him and he has seen how she is and he thinks its more of a lack of dicipline on my behalf when she was younger and now she is disobeying me now that I am setting down rules. To me medicating a child for behavioural issues rather then an actual issue is more like taking a dog out back and putting it down before trying to solve the issue. I've seen kids on these meds that they want to procribe and I don't want my kid to be a zombie I want her to be normal. Honestly I think it's better that I look into more research because you are more to judge then to be supportive like honestly don't you think that a mother would go to the ends of the earth and back to help their child I have been doing everything that I can and more and you sit back and judje you don't know me or her and yet you judge I was looking for help not a jury. It hurts me to know that you assume that I'm not doing what I must I have a very open mind to everything and trying new tastics but I have already been down the road that you all are talking about. I have done this and more so the only advice I would like now is how to end this site because I thought I could really get some advice from other parents and it's just circles.
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Avatar_m_tn
   "Honestly I think it's better that I look into more research ."   GOOD - that was my main recommendation to you.  I never once recommended that you try medication.  I did say, " Essentially, you really haven't given enough information to pin down the problem.  It could range from ADHD to a kid bright enough to manipulate those around her,"  Then I asked some questions that would be helpful to help your daughter.  If you are positive its not something like ADHD, then the most recommended book is,  "SOS Help for Parents," by Lynn Clark.  Good luck
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1328507_tn?1275073545
I wasn't just directing it towards you It seemed like everyone was saying ADHD and I would love to look into this book but obviously it's not a free book and I have limited income at this time with me being an at home mother and my husband trieing to support us all. I did do more research and found an organization in the area that I live that said that they could help and I think that I will take the time to go and see what options that they will give to me. I'm sorry if it felt as though I was attacking everyone yesturday but I just felt that I was trying so hard to get some help and it seems like everyone was saying that I wasn't providing my daughter with the nesecessities and I take great offence to that and it hurts because I know I've done so much I just needed help and options. Sorry again to anyone I may have offended that was not my intention.
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Avatar_f_tn
HI,
I AM SORRY if you did not feel supported.  I am sure it is directed at me.  You definitely deserve respect and support.  The LAST thing I would want is for a parent living through what you are living through to feel unsupported.  I KNOW.  I LIVE IT.  It HURTS.

I am so sorry if my comments hurt you!

And, I konw what it feels like for people to be critical of parenting.  I hope you did not think I was being critical of your parenting.

I just am worried about my own daughter...and probably transferring some of that over to you and your posting!

And, from what i read... true ADHD has to be treated with meds for the best results.

But if they made her worse, than other conditions may be present too...like childhood bipolar or a mood disorder....or ??  

All I hope for you and for your daughter is that you get her to a new doc...a child psychiatrist and tell her/him what is going on and have her reassesed.  If it is just a child behaving badly, they will know.  this way you will konw for sure too.  Any great doc will not ever prescribe meds to a kid unless they need it.

I was typing in caps, and that always comes off wrong.
I am also passionate about this stuff.

In no way do I think that kids that are misbehaving because of a lack of discipline need medication.  I am sorry if I implied that.  

It just sounds like she is way beyond behavior issues to me.  I have a daughter who is 6 with ADHD....and most likely Bi-POLAR because she has no problems for weeks at a time....great behavior...happy kid....then turns into a raging unhappy violent child and this last period of time it lasted FIVE WEEKS.  It was the WORST five weeks of my life  I cannt take her anywhere and my husband and I get very depressed dealing with a kid that we adore who screams, hits, rages, and is completely out of contro, depressed and miserable.  THIS IS WITH MEDS.   Without she would probably be hospitalized.

I am also speaking from experience in that I have studied dozens of books on the subject, taken many psych courses....seen many many doctors for my daughter and am her advocate and happen to have a keen interest in psychiatry and psychology.

Please know that you are not alone.

Angi
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Avatar_m_tn
angelinamarina, I feel for your hard past..but could not agree with one thing you have done...we place too much on psychiatry and medication these days...although it helps some...you make it sound like its the only solution!!  Not one of the medications EVER is a natural substance that should be in the human body!!!  We were told our son had ADHD and Bi-polar and Thank God we decided to take him off the medication that they were trying to shove down his throat!!  He is now an amazing, creative and outgoing 18 year old, who still has his quips, but don't we all!!  Best decision we ever made!  I do want to point out that we also went to many doctors and read many books.  I would never say that using meds or not is right or wrong..but it is something each person has to figure out on their own!!  I do think that it is just too easy for the doctors to say it is the only answer!!!!  I hope your daughter is doing well!!  One more thing, we found that our son's diet of processed foods (the problem with almost all health issues today) was a big factor in how his body worked.  Once he was off meds and on a high fruit and vegi diet...he got better quickly.  Not enough education today on prevention of disease and too much attention on treatment of!!!!!  Thanks for listening!!
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