15 yr old son and his Father

My son and husband have major personality conflicts. My husband is very laid-back, conservative, low key, and passive. My son is almost hyper active....like he can't relax, controlling and Type A all the way. He has a great sense of humor, has always been a good kid...spiritually and morally. The thing we are dealing with is the disrespect he's shown toward his father in the last 2 years....it's getting progressively worse. They aren't abusive toward each other, (yet, God forbid) just VERY aggravating. My son and I are very close, (our personalities are very similar) but his behavior toward his dad is really getting to me. My husband has been leniate (sp?) and catered to him since he was a baby. Some of it my son's fault, some of it my husband......and some from me. He will be turning 16 in June. What suggestions do you have to keep this from progressing? It's extremely stressful....especially since we have a 19 yr old daughter who is "all grown up." Thanks!

[barn babe]

Interesting about the dad being laid-back and conservative at the same time. Sounds like an oxymoron. Most conservatives I've known have been rigid in their thinking, overly authoritarian, and overtly controlling in their relationships. This is generally based on the rigid authoritarian and patriarchal model on which the dogma of conservatism lies.  "Laid-back" is the last thing I would expect from a "conservative."  Especially from one who I assume is religious - aren't you a follower of religious  mythology?

If you are talking about basic rudeness and inappropriate language towards the dad, then the kid should just be reminded of the "treat others as you would yourself" thing. Presumably, if he is "spiritually and morally" appropriate according to your standards, he must be aware of this rather obvious tenet. Remind him about it and give him examples of why you don't think he adhered to it and ask if he feels the same. Generally, it's probably just an autonomy thing and is normal. Teenagers perceive psychological control as damaging, regardless of what your intention is, so address the behavior, and not the kid himself. He's 16, so he can think for himself, make decisions that have consequences or not, and act appropriately if he so chooses.

If you get to a point where you want consequences for his actions, then he needs to participate in deciding what behaviors will result in what consequences. Then he can't argue with you about it being unfair, since he had  a  hand in the decisions.

Maybe he's starting to rethink the "spiritual" stuff  he's been fed, though, which might not be  a bad thing. Many many kids pull away from the religious mythology  that was force-fed to them by their parents. It happens all the time.

Acting out means kids are looking for some boundaries. But you have to dance around it in a way that doesn't interfere with their psychological autonomy, otherwise it's perceived as a threat. I read that this is more important with teen boys than girls, probably because we unconsciously treat boys different from girls (which is of course horrifying, but there it is).  Address the behavior, not the kid.

[singforjoy]

Thank you for your thoughtful input. I truly will take it into consideration. Yes, I understand how you could think it unusual that my husband is 'laid back' and not a stuffy, legalistic Christian----what I meant by that is he is not a controlling type person nor is he a worrier...his faith in God is strong. His dad died when he was 9...his mom died when he was 21,...when he was away at college. He's learned, or at least makes it a practice, to turn his anxieties and 'challenges' over to God. While I'm on that subject, my mom died 11 years ago of cancer. If it weren't for the Bible, prayer, my family, friends and a supportive church family, I would not have made it through. My mom was my bestfriend.....she prayed that my brothers and I would turn to God while she was dying.  I think of her every day and wish she were here to help answer this question about my son. She raised two sons....

With all due respect, we truly don't feel we've crammed "religious mythology" down their throats. Our faith in God is real....Jesus Christ is real. To introduce our kids to Him is the greatest gift we can give them. Our hope is that they will turn to Him for direction as they grow older.

Ya know, you truly had some great things to say in your reply to me. I really appreciate and welcome it........

[April2]

You are absoloutely correct. There are many out there who call themselves Christians who do not represent Christ or his true followers. They have done much to damage the integrety of our faith. I am disgusted with those such as Fred Phelps. He and his followers are hatemongers and obviousely do not read their Bible or they'd understand that God is a god of love. I also don't believe that those who bomb abortion clinics are true folllowers. The Bible says that anyone who calls himself a follower of Christ and yet hates his brother is decieving himself and God is not in him. I can only imagine how much it must grieve Jesus to see how much of his church and followers are acting. They are not following his teachings at all and do not represent those of us who truely love the Lord and desire to follow him. He says the greatest two commendments are to love the Lord you God and to love others as your self. You might try reading the New Testament sometime. You may discover a respect and admiration of Jesus Christ. He was truely radical in his day. He accepted women followers and women in authority which was unheard of in his day. He refused to stone or judge a woman brought before him caught in adultery. He reminded people that he was here on Earth to minister to the lost, the brokenhearted, the sick. The only people he had a real issue with was those who were hypocrites (the Pharises) who liked to loudly proclaim their goodness and piety while inside they were dead. Jesus said the inside is so much more important than the outside, and that we shoud clean the inside of our cup before the outside. He also said we should remove the plank in our own eye before attempting to remove the speck out of our brothers eyes. Over and over again Jesus tried to give us the example of being humble (not thinking too highly of ourselves), putting others ahead of ourselves, loving and forgiving each other. My favorite passage is the Prodigal son because God welcomed back the sinner who rejected him and selfishly went his own way. God welcomed him back with open arms and did not even rebuke him for what he'd done. This is how I like to view God. It's really too bad that so many have slandered His name and His teachings. Too many people think they're religious and follow all these rules when they have no relationship or understanding of who God or Jesus really is. It's tragic. When you truely get to know the Lord, you can't help but love him. He is indeed real and the Bible is an accurate, historical book. I've had too many answered prayers and miracles in my family and my own life to ever doubt who was behind it.
I ask on behalf of all those who claim to be religious to please forgive us for offending and hurting you and so many, and misrepresenting our Lord Jesus.

[April2]

Hello Singforjoy, I also have a 15 year old. I understand what you are going through! The teen years are so hard! My 15 year old daughter has been testing her bounderies for awhile. I just keep reminding her that we will not tolerate rudeness or disrespect, and she loses privilidges when she chooses to talk back. You said something that I agree with. I think personality has a lot to do with how difficult your teen can be. My 18 year old son went through a time of testing from about 13-16 years old. I started noticing a big change and maturity last year in his senior year. So there it hope! I am very proud of him. He has turned out to be a very compassionate, thoughtful young man. I keep reminding myself that with a little time and maturity my daughter will grow out of this testing stage too. She is much more strong willed, however, so she clashes with us more! I've heard that strong willed children make great leaders, though, so with a little guidance I'm confident that our children will go far in life!

It's also pretty common for them to question their faith in their teen years. I wouldn't be too concerned. It's a natural part of their growing up for them to want to find out for themselves their beliefs. Keep praying, keep taking him to church but don't get preachy or forceful. Even if he strays from his faith for awhile, he more than likely will return to the faith he was raised in. Remember, "train up a child in the way he should go and he will not depart from it".
My son and I talked about different religions last night. He was saying he didn't think Christians should shelter their kids from other religions or faith. I told him I agree. Ignorance breeds hate and our God is a god of love not hate. Besides, if we are truly confident of our faith then we should not be threatened by others beliefs. Your son will be drawn to you faith without you're even having to open your mouth. He will see it in your every day living and how you react to everything.
By the way, if you are interested I belong to a Christian prayer forum and there are some wonderful, caring people there who will pray and fast for you and your family. Take heart and know that there are people out there who care and understand! We are all parents and we all love our kids. Take care.

[anxiousmomtobe?]

Hang in there, your son is pushing the boundaries and trying to figure out who he is.  Be consistent, make sure you do not let him divide and conquer.  Put your relationship with your dh first.  

I have a 16 year old daughter and she drives me around the bend as well.  However, I am hanging in and I know she will be a wonderful, strong woman in just a few years.

And please ignore the attacks on yoru beliefs.  It always amazesd me that the people who scream the most for tolerance are so intolerant of anyone who does not share their point of view.

I think religion gives children a sense a community and a positive framework to view the world.

[barn babe]

"Barn Babe, please be respectful of those of us who take our faith very seriously and we will also respect your right to not believe or accept our faith."

LOL.  You may "take your faith very seriously" but the biggest problem with Xtianism, especially of the fundie variety, is that you don't allow others the respect of "not believing or accepting" in faith-based fairy tales.  And I can give you many examples. The most problematic, of course, is the methods that are used to abolish the separation of  church and state in this country, including  the funneling of millions of dollars by church groups to Republican organizations and the  Federal government to be used for teaching mythology, such as "abstinence" only education and the  destruction of public education with the bogus pro-privatization legislation of "No Child Left Behind." Millions of dollars are also given to Xtian fundie groups to teach "abstinence" in overseas clinics instead of handing out condoms and using fact-based sex education programs.

What faith is being followed by those who bomb abortion clinics? By those  who use fear-mongering and disinformation campaigns to talk women out of having abortions? Tell me about that "faith."  Tell me about the "faith" of that psychotic Fred Phelps, who has gone on record saying gays should be killed. Tell me about that "faith."

Tell me about Jerry Falwell's "faith." He blamed 9/11 on gays, lesbians, and people with AIDS. Great "faith," eh?  Tell me about Pat Robertson's "faith." He  called for the assassination of a national leader, Hugo Chavez of Venezuela.

You folks are in the majority in this country. But you feel maligned and persecuted because there isn't a cross on every piece of public property or a bible in every public school. Get over yourselves.  

When the believers of fairy tales, mysticism, and mythology based on a pack of patriarchal homophobic and misogynist garbage stop insisting that the rest of us conform to their ridiculous ideology, maybe  I'll start showing a little respect.

[April2]

Singforjoy, I have to say I was very taken aback that the one person who responded to your post responded with outright hostility and even mocked your beliefs (the comment about religious mythology). You wrote asking for help or advice and she responded with an outright attack on your faith. The hostility towards Christianity and others who believe in God was very troubling to me. I can't imagine what could have happened in her life to cause such a hatred towards those who believe in God. You handled the attack with dignity and grace, and I admire you for that.

Barn Babe, please be respectful of those of us who take our faith very seriously and we will also respect your right to not believe or accept our faith.

[singforjoy]

YOU ARE PRECIOUS, my sister in Christ! Thank you for the kind words and insight. It is so good to know someone understands about the stages  teenagers go through. Likemindedness/unity is invaluable in this day and time. What is the address of the prayer forum site?

[singforjoy]

Thank you so much for the encouragement. I really appreciate your support...the teenage years can be pretty scary, can't they? I mean, we parents want so much for our kids not to be emotionally scarred in the future  for decisions they make as teenagers/young adults.
Yes, I understand the comment about tolerance, more than you know. :-/
God bless you....

[April2]

Hello my friend! I'd be more than happy to give you that website! It has literally saved me this year. This has been one of the hardest, stressful years of my life. I've especially gotten close to a few of the ladies on this website. They've all been so encouraging to me, praying for me, giving me scriptures to lift me up, etc. I think it'd be awesome to meet some of them someday! It's one of the best sites I've come across. They don't allow any nasty talk, etc. And what's cool about it is people from all over the world from different denominations meet regularly. It doesn't matter to me (and them) what denomination you are (if you're Cathlic, Baptist, etc.). It's just people who love Jesus and their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
The website is Christian-Prayers.com. After it pulls up go to the prayer forum. God bless!

[barn babe]

Jesus, it's like an Xtian revival in this thread.  I feel like I should be tithing away my money or something. What page do we open our bibles to, "my friends?"

[April2]

Ha, ha!! :) Barn Babe, you are so funny!! What a delightful sense of humor you have! Hop on board and join us, my friend! You will never regret it! People think Christians are boring! Ha! Ever since I became a Christian I've had more fun, more joy and more peace!

Singforjoy, let me know if you decide to join that prayer forum so I can look for you (if you use the same username). If you decide on a different user name, let me know and I'll give you mine so we can stay in touch! They have the capability to send private messages as well as posting for everyone to see. Stay in touch! I always love meeting other sisters in Christ. God bless!

[singforjoy]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!  You truly have a great sense of humor! :-)

[singforjoy]

Thank you for the website address! I will be sure to visit.

[singforjoy]

Barn Babe,
This may sound weird to you, but I love you. I don't even know you, but I love you. I have no right not to love you because God loved/loves me. He sent his only son, Jesus, to die on a cross for me....for you and the whole world. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16
Within the last two years I've sensed that God is preparing Christians for persecution because we come across as being intolerant of almost everything and everybody. People will/do hate us because they hated him. He was accused of being  intolerant when he never was. He hated sin, but always loved the sinner. I am a sinner. Everyone sins. God said/says in the bible the only unpardonable sin is rejection of his son, Jesus.
Since you don't believe in or even own a bible, you probably won't know or see these things. "The Truth sets me free..."
Evidentally, you were hurt by someone very badly in your lifetime to have so much hate in your heart.
Just something I think you should know......   One of the bestfriends I ever had was homosexual.  When I found this out I let her know I  didn't agree with her lifestyle, but I loved her unconditionally. (She moved away years ago.) She says she knows her lifestyle is wrong, but she 'can't' get out of it....it is a stronghold.
That is an example of God loving the sinner, but hating the sin. God fearing Christians are supposed to be his hands and feet on earth. Christians miserably fail in that area, sometimes. We can certainly be quick to throw stones. It's called spiritual pride. It wreaks. I hate it....GOD HATES IT!
One more thing....if you don't believe the Bible, unless you have ears to hear, nothing I say will make sense. But that's your choice.

[barn babe]

Yeah, it's a real kumbaya moment.

"Sisters in Christ." My atheist friends will howl when they hear that one. Listen to yourselves. Does it embarrass you that all rational thought and reason has apparently left you? Does it bother you that you believe in a set of sexist, homophobic and fear-mongering stories that have no more legitimacy than the story we are told about the tooth fairy?

We are almost a decade past the millennium, and if I didn't read it with my own eyes, I would never have believed that folks could be taken in by such smarmy b.s. It's laughable. And mind-boggling. And truly, truly sad. Man, this country is f*cked if most Amerikans actually believe the **** you are spewing.

Just keep this shite  to yourselves. That's all I'm saying. Stop trying to shove it down the throats of the rest of us. Some of us know evolution is no longer  a "theory."  Some of us want actual physical evidence that the bearded misogynist  exists before we "believe." Some of us want to be able to have abortions without you folks butting your asses into our bedrooms and telling us we can't.

In short, many many Amerikans are tired of the shuck-and-jive that you Xtians have tried to force-feed us. It sickens us, frankly.

So go right ahead and have your "sister Jayzus" moments. Just keep it among yourselves. And leave the rest of us the f*ck alone.

[singforjoy]

I wrote separate emails to all three of you...so the one about "being sisters" was not to you. You are 'family' with your friends...what I said to April2 shouldn't have been a big deal.
Can I still reply to your emails without saying anything about Jesus, Christianity, etc....?  I'm not a pushy person so I will leave you alone if that's what you want.
This is a great forum because I'm learning so much about people.

[April2]

Ok, I'll leave you alone. It seemed to me you were kinda enjoying the "debate" or bantering back and forth, otherwise I wouldn't have continued it for so long. You have your faith (yourself and evolution) and I have mine. We all have faith in something, so let's just leave it at that, shall we?
I have to say, though, it's been fun talking to you! Take care of yourself.

[singforjoy]

I just wanted to make something clear before anyone misunderstands my last comment.........
By choosing not to talk to Barn Babe about Jesus or Christianity does not mean I am denying Him. I think everyone knows where I stand on that. I was  just hoping this forum was open for honest, but tactful people..... I am still very new to the forum. Honestly, Barn Babe, as much as I would like to have kept communication open I've changed my mind because you spew poison and there is nothing edifying about that. You have been blasphemous about the Person who cares most about you. Most of your emails make me shudder.....one day your knee will bow to Jesus. I meant it when I said I love you and Jesus loves you even though that doesn't matter to you. I'm really sorry you've closed your heart to Him and to people who really care about you. Good bye.

[April2]

AJH84, thank you for the kind words! I hope you like the Christian prayers forum (Christian-Prayers.com). I've gotten really close to a few of the ladies there including the moderater, Stef. Laura "No Coincidences" has been praying and fasting for my teenage daughter and me. We've had a very rough year this last year, but God has been good and has gotten us through it. If you visit my user name is "MyHeartsCry". You will definately see into my heart there! It's always good to meet other Christians. Thanks for writing! I hope to chat with you again! God bless.

Singforjoy, I agree with you, it makes me cringe when I hear people blasphemy my Lords name. We have to remember though that she is not a believer so it doesn't bother her. We are supposed to meet people at their  level, though. How else would we reach people for Christ? I used to do some pretty bad things too before I became a Christian.

When you guys visit the Christian-Prayers.com, look for what I said about all the names of God. I did a study on it and what struck me the most was when Jesus comes back He will have a new name written on Him that no one knows. Do you know why He did that? Because that will be the only name that no one has been able to profane!! Wasn't that brilliant!! Isn't He awesome! The more I learn about Him, the more I love Him.

I'm so glad I got to meet a couple of new Christian friends! I hope we can talk again sometime! Take care.

[AHP84]

You two are truly inspirational and have a strong faith in Christ. I have enjoyed reading your posts immensely and watching you deal with Barn Babe. I have attempted to talk with her here and there a few times, and boy, she's definitely one to test your personal Christian love and patience!
I have been keeping her in my prayers though, even though I don't know her personally. She is so smart and witty, it's a shame she has to be so mean sometimes.
I hope the best for you both. I will also look into the Christian Prayer forum, and if I get a chance to register anytime soon, I will be under the same screen name.
God bless!
-AJH

[singforjoy]

Sorry for the delay.....
I just wanted to say "Thanks" for your kind message and God bless....

[tmv]

Wow! I'm so proud of you girls! It is so hard to deal with the ignorant in Christ. They don't even realize what a minority they are in the U.S. But, these things will past as my 94 y/o grandmother states "it's a sign of the time" and you fellow Christians know that it is true. I definitely believe that non-believers had better enjoy theirselves here on earth, because this is their "heaven". It won't get any better for them until they accept Jesus Christ as their personal saviour.

As for your son, part of it is truly a normal struggle for independence at this age. They are not quite all grown up and not quite a child anymore. I agree with the comment to be consistant with your guidelines and it will pass in time. They consistency will actually give him a sense of security, he just doesn't know that yet.

Take care and God Bless.