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2 Year old Making her self throw up when dad leaves her at daycare
I have a 2 yo daycare girl that screams and crys and actually makes herself throw up when her dad leaves her here.  She is perfectly fine a few minutes later and she does NOT do this when her mom brings her.  I think she has seperation anxiety and her dad is making it worse by consoling her and picking her up, then telling her he is leaving, and picking her up again when she crys.  He stayed for over 15 minutes today.  What can I try to make things better for her?  I even told the parents to try a new daycare and they don't want to so I am guessing that she does some of this at home to.
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Page 6 of 6
428350 tn?1216419581
I guess I'm not going to get the mother-of-the-year award because I work. I hope my children don't end up in years of thearpy over my choice. I hope they can bare the burden of the pre-school memories and the love my two day care ladies have shown them throughout the years. I hope they are okay with the vacations we take and the fun family outings that we do. I hope they are okay and can deal with the fact that mommy and daddy don't argue over money.  

I know a few SAHMs that are far from even running for the title of mother-of-the-year. Their idea of staying home is parking the kids in front of a movie while they spend hours online.  
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165308 tn?1323190145
Well, I HAVEN'T heard the term "baby room" and the ratio at my day care is very small...not like the orphanages in China...which is 20 to one...which you would NEVER have in a competent daycare.  So therefore, please refrain from using that term...but you obviously won't because you know best about everything.

And of course, Rock, your studies are better than mine...and everything about you is better,  and you are just...better....HEY IF THAT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD, than go for it!
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172023 tn?1334675884
Great points, Sabrina!

Its up to the women and to the family, to make wise decisions about what to do to best achieve their family goals.  To use our brains and our educations.  To do what we need to do and what we want to do.

That's all I'm saying.  

I'm just not understanding why RR feels its so wrong, for women to make decisions and not be led by her vision of what our breasts and our ovaries "want" us to do.  We are strong women.  We can do what we choose to do.



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165308 tn?1323190145
Also, another comment to make...my daughter was in an orphanage from one day old...until 10 months...No mother/daughter bonding...just institutionalized...should I have NOT adopted her?  Was she totally damaged at tender age of 10 months?  I guess adopting a child isn't the natural order of things either....

BUT I DID ADOPT HER...AND I LOVE HER...AND SHE GOES TO DAY CARE A FEW DAYS A WEEK AND SHE IS THRIVING.......

Who knows what the future holds for any child..we do the best, we hope for the best...and hope it all turns out right....only God knows...but that is another debate....
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Great points by all really. Standing back, and not being involved in this passionate discussion, I see some validity in many peoples points and opinions. That is what is so wonderful about open forums.

Getting back to the original discussion, I agree with BabyHardiman. I do not think the right solution is to ship the toddler off to another daycare. She has an issue with separation and that will occur no matter where she is played. My 3 year old has similar issues when my Husband leaves for work in the morning. She is very close with him, so to see him leave (paired with the fact that she tends to be a bit on the dramatic side) really gets her upset, crying, so on...

Do you think she ever does that with me? No. The reason being is that I do not prolong the leaving process. My husband will leave, close the door and as soon as my toddler turns up the volume in her screams, he is right back in. This could go back in forth for 10 minutes or so. So I almost daily in a position similar to the OP, however it is a bit less traumatic since she is at home with me in the mornings  :)  Its ok when he finally leaves, I tell him every morning just to leave, because she expects him to walk back in  a play this game for as long as he permits. He's getting better, but he really is such a softy :)

To state my opinion. Being in the position as a SAHM (I do have some part time work) for the most part, I think it is beneficial for the position of my family, because any job I would get, the money would not outweigh the cost of the gas it would take to use my SUV back and forth and paying the proper daycare for 2 children. However, I consider myself very fortunate. I think many mothers would love to be in the position I am in. I know so many HAVE to work and would rather be at home with their little ones. To them, I applaud. I can imagine how difficult it must be, even when they have a career they love. I would never look down on a mother who chooses or out of necessity has to work outside the home. I am sure any loving mother wants what is best for their child, no matter what. I know I do.

I hope all can come away from this post enriched to some degree and not entirely enraged.
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299155 tn?1235492869
From a stay at home Mom.  Unbelievable what we've become, judging, judging, judging.  Let's all stop and just be thankful for our children wether we stay home with them or not.  I left a 23 year career to stay at home, not because I had a disdain for daycare etc.  It was a personal decision that I made from my circumstances.  Never in a million years would I accuse anyone of not being the mother that I am if they placed their child in daycare.

Instead of judging, let's do as many here suggested and offer ideas and suggestions to help the child.  

Right on, family time, vacations, time spent together is what is most important wether it happens at 10:00 am or 8:00 at night or even gasp, on the weekend when Mom and Dad are off.  Time and love are what is needed wether its 1968 or 2029.
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299155 tn?1235492869
Ugghhh, I'm sorry.  I just feel so strongly  about a mother's love.  To even attempt to tell or indicate that a mother who works does not love her child as much as one who stays home is wrong.  May not be said upfront here but from an outsider, that is what the hardened posts imply.
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13167 tn?1327197724
Who in the WORLD is saying that mothers who work don't love their children as much as mothers who stay home with them?

Who said that,  or even hinted at that?
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184674 tn?1360864093
I just wanted to add my experience with this as a working mom. My son is my world, the highlight of my life, and I've fought and continue to fight a lot of uphill battles to provide for him and shape his little world into one that will give him the best opportunities in his future. This is just my experience and it's worked for us, and I wanted to share.

I've had Trevor in daycare since he was 6 weeks old, and I intended on having him there, even if I could have been a SAHM. First of all, I thought he'd benefit from being around people and learning to trust adults other than immediate family and be around children his age so he could learn from them (like by watching them crawl, learn to walk, etc). I also wanted him to not have separation anxiety with me, so enrolling him at such a young age has ensured that I've never once had a problem with this issue.
I also breastfed him exclusively for his first 6 weeks, and then supplemented him with formula, but sent him to daycare with half a day's worth of pumped milk every day. I co-slept with him until he was 6 months old, and breastfed him during the nights and early mornings before daycare. I breastfed him exclusively when we got home until he was 7 months, and then at 8 months he weaned himself (mainly because I got reluctant to breastfeed him from 7-8 months because he developed a biting habit).
So I feel confident that I never compromised any bonding opportunities, and certainly did my best to keep things as "nature intended."
He's been to three daycares in 3½ years. The first one he was in for a year and a half, the second for three months, and the one he's in now he's been in for two years. I wouldn't change a thing if I could, because all his daycares have never given me or him a problem with anything.
Not only that, but Trevor is one of the most social kids you could ever meet. Everyone can be his friend as far as he's concerned. He's ALWAYS played well with other kids and been complimented by countless adults who are impressed with his obedience and bond to me, his social skills with other kids, his tactfulness to adults, and his intelligence, speech, and enunciation.
I actually don't think he'd be thriving so well if he was always at home. I don't have the time or energy to provide all of that for him just by myself. And to be honest (and maybe call me a bad mom), but I had no issues whatsoever with leaving him at a daycare when he was 6 weeks old. I really didn't want to stay at home with him or have him ALL DAY LONG, because heck, it's not like I slept at night! I spent nights up with him, either awake or in a light sleep, tending to him if he was sick, hungry, or just awake and wanting to play. I wanted and needed time away from him for a few hours to put my mind into adult things (college and homework) or just to get a few hours of rest or a few chores done.
And now, I have no choice but to have him in daycare, so it's a darn good thing he's used to it and loves being there with his teachers and friends. I have to work to provide for us because there ain't no one else who's gonna do it! Lol, besides, he's learned SO much there, and looks forward to events like swim day (the daycare has a pool, so he's also learning to swim) and show and tell, so I can't help but think he's getting more than second best from me--I've giving him what IS best without a doubt and he's thriving. I don't regret a thing.
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171768 tn?1324233699
i think the problem is that due to the way you word things, it does seem as if you are not being respectful. this is evident since it is your comments that started the whole debate. it also does seem as if you are both judging and implying that mothers who put their children into daycare are not good mothers.

you may not mean it that way, but a whole lot of people read it that way.

there are plenty of people on this forum who feel it is best for women to stay home. they manage to express this without causing such a controversy.
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171768 tn?1324233699
and i'm not looking for anyone to sugarcoat things or change their beliefs.

for example, i feel VERY strongly that breast milk is best and that moms should at least attempt to breast feed. but if someone asks a question about how often to feed formula, i would not respond, "you should have breast fed. but since you have already decided to feel your baby something inferior, you should offer a bottle as needed."

essentially, that is what you did here. the question was answered, but is the rest necessary? what is it accomplishing?
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152852 tn?1205717026
A point was made here that was a very valid one—if you are secure and confident in your decisions or choices, you just don’t get crazily defensive.  You just don’t.  If someone told me that my 17-month-old needed to go to daycare for “socialization”, I would totally disregard the comment because it’s not valid, imo.  I have no desire or need to convince that person that I’m doing the right thing.  That's how I think you naturally are when you are secure and confident in your decisions or choices.

When you have a strong opinion about something regarding childrearing, you cannot say, “Yeah…you know…I totally see your point and think you may be right.”  To do so would mean that you would have to do one of two things—admit it’s not the best thing for your child and continue to do it anyway, or you would have to make changes.  Neither option is very attractive.

So this debate usually just gets ugly (like it is) and there’s never a nice end to it or an intelligent discussion of topics (like socializaiton, separation anxiety, etc.).  Too many emotions involved.
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198506 tn?1251160515
I think the thing that annoys me most is that you injected the SAHM/working Mom argument into a post that had nothing to do with that subject.  And in my opinion you did this to be divisive and to feel superior.  My goodness don't we women have enough obstacles in life....shouldn't we be supporting each other as much as we can rather than tearing each other down.  We are all mothers....why are the labels necessary, what purpose does it serve?      
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152852 tn?1205717026
It doesn't matter how things are worded.  I was very careful about how I worded things...I even ended one of my replies with, "...People do what they need to do in life and if people have to leave their children at daycares, I'm glad there are loving child care providers who are willing to work lovingly with those children."   And I was still jumped on and accused of tag-teaming with RR.  It simply doesn't matter how it's worded.  It's a hot topic filled with emotions on both sides.
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172023 tn?1334675884
Here is why I said you agreed with RR:

She said
"If you want your child to scream less,  drop and run.  The more the separation is prolonged,  and the parent returns for goodbyes,  the more the child screams.
Drop and run.  That is the solution for this dad.  Plop this kid down on the floor,  turn,  and walk away swiftly.  I swear,  the child will scream less."

Your very next post?    
"I agree with RR.  It's an ugly truth, but the truth nonetheless."

I've said it at least 6 times on this thread.  Its about choice.  Why is that such an ugly word, such a frightening concept, on this website?  If someone can comfortably stay home with their child, AND wants to, THEY SHOULD!
Everyone needs to consider their family's unique situation and needs.  If working outside the home is the best solution to meet those needs, women who do so should not be made to feel ugly, or that they are "going against nature".







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152852 tn?1205717026
No one can make you feel anything.  You have to allow that to happen.  If someone tells me that they believe that daycare is great for babies because it teaches socialization, that statement cannot in any way make me feel like a bad mom for keeping my baby home because I simply don't believe it.  If I felt insecure or uncertain about my decision, then it would likely make me feel bad.
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13167 tn?1327197724
peek,  you see it as a pure and simple choice because in your opinion it's not harmful to the children.  So,  of course it's a choice to you,  up to each parent to make.

What if this were a debate about putting cereal in a newborn's bottle.  Some people were for it,  some against,  and the ones for it said hey,  it's a choice.  You do what you want,  let us do what we want,  and stop telling us what to do,  we want to put cereal in the baby bottle.  MYOB.  

This is how I feel in this.  

And to AJ, thank you for sharing your story.  I think you're right,  your son is well adjusted and happy,  and you should have no regrets.  Sometimes it works out great.

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171768 tn?1324233699
you seem to mistake my desire to have my views expressed as defensiveness again.

I never occused you of tagteaming with RR. i didn't even "jump on" on you. the only reason i directed a comment towards you was simply because what you described didn't match my experiences. i even stated that. how was anything i directed towards you an attack? you are right- you have managed to express your views without much judgement- at least to the point of the posts earlier in the thread. i've read so much since, i don't clearly recall who said what. you keep coming back here and accusing me of attacking you and being defensive, when i have not initiated anything with you. i read your post about staying home on the other forum as well. again, you managed to say things well. i didn't "attack" or "jump on" you there because you stated your views without trying to demean others.  that conversation, until i last read it, managed to stay civil and helpful. the main difference? no low, rude, snide, or demeaning remarks.
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152852 tn?1205717026
No--I didn't mistake anything you said.  I wasn't specifically talking about you--just pointing out that even though I carefully worded what I said, my points were missed, phrases were hyperfocused upon and taken as attacks, and other comments (like the tag-team one) were directed at me.  It wasn't by you and it wasn't a big deal--I was just pointing out that it doesn't matter how you word things--if someone is going to take offense, they're going to take offense.  This is an emotional topic.  People get passionate.  That's all.
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13167 tn?1327197724
tired,  go back and read through some of the comments on this thread and see who is being snide and rude.

Read Suzi Q's comments (especially telling me never to use the term baby room again,  geez,  when I order diapers for the church nursery "baby room" I guess I'll have to think of something else for the church to call that) and read Peek's comments.

Who is being snider here?  I read through my post,  that inflamed so many,  and it's not nearly as hostile as Peek's and Suzi Qs are to me.

You may not see it if it isn't being said to you,  is the thing.

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If it means anything to anyone, the OP posted this same question in the Parenting forum in the expert section of this website. She received excellent advice from an expert, so hopefully that will direct her on what is best for the 2 year old that sparked this passionate debate. I hope she is able to help this little girl and her parents make the transition of separation that is never easy for any child or parent, no matter what the circumstance behind it is. I think that is what is most important here. Have a good evening all!
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165308 tn?1323190145
it isn't the term "baby room" like you would use at a church....it is the context in which you used it.  How daycare has "babyrooms" as if they are cattled in.  It was the context, not the word itself.  Just from the tone of your other posts, I took your terms with negative conotations.

Yes, I used snide remarks, only in response to yours and your "superior" attitude in your posts.  If you go back to my first posts, many times I tried to make peace with the subject, but some wouldn't let it.
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13167 tn?1327197724
You took my post wrong,  Suzi.  You filtered it through your own perceptions.  

Baby room is a term,  within a day care or a church nursery setting,  where the babies are.  The cribs and rocking chairs and babies and workers who work with babies are there.

There is nothing prejorative about that term unless you're looking for something to fight about.
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Gosh, it I were the OP, I'd change my name to "FrustratedMHMember"-I am glad a professional gave her some good advice. Any good advice here would be hard to find in the cloud of hostility that permeates this thread!
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13167 tn?1327197724
I agree, the advice that the child is suffering from severe anxiety,  and the dad should probably make the good bye very quick was great advice.
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171768 tn?1324233699
this whole thing reminds me of wifeswap- that silly show on ABC.

these moms go into this proclaiming that they have the best idea of parenting. the drama can be intense, and in the end everyone leaves with at least a changed perspective. it's also funny how those moms think that they can simply apply the rules of their homes and expect it to magically work in the new family.
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13167 tn?1327197724
Interesting- there was a family in my neighborhood who participated in Wife Swap.  I don't know how many you watched but this was an episode with a Black Christian conservative family matched with a family with one daughter and lesbian parents.

It was an absolute nightmare for both families - both were threatened with being sued for the 1 million bucks production costs if they backed out  at any time,  and the network purposely matched hopelessly mismatched families.    I knew way before the episode aired that this was going to be a total train wreck - and it was.  So sad.  

Anyway, for what it's worth.
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152852 tn?1205717026
Yeah...I've seen it a few times and the ones I've seen were the most extreme of the extreme.  I personally have never met people like any of the families I've seen on that show (fortunately).  Whatever it takes for ratings, though.
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171768 tn?1324233699
i agree- they pair extremes to create conflict.
i can't help but wonder how much of it is genuine. are these families for real? are the shows edited to show only specific aspects? rockrose- do you feel the family you knew was accurately portrayed?
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254689 tn?1251183640
I really don't want to join the debate about "Wife Swap" but I wanted to comment on the nature thing:  my mother was a SAHM.  She was hugely unhappy being stuck at home w/small children and consequently it was passed down to her family.  She was a much happier person/mother when she finally figured it out & went back to work.  Does nature intend that?

Looking back, if given the choice, I was the child who would've chosen day-care over staying w/an unhappy SAHM.  By the way, I read the CNN article and it was largely about childless women who chose to stay home - not the ones w/children.
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172023 tn?1334675884
I read it, also.  Good article--was there a connection with working mothers in some way? Again--the Med Help C word--choice.  Some women stay home.  Some go to work.  Biology and "nature" are not dictating what they choose to do.  

About cereal in a bottle....was that having a single thing to do with this discussion in some way?  
Oh, you were just trying to "enrage" me again, Rose?  One might almost think so!  Why don't you try routine infant circumcision....that might work.
If anyone wanted to hear my thoughts on those 2 issues, I'd be glad to share how I think.

Back to the topic at hand.  My "snideness" and determination that women should be free to do what they choose, whether it be working outside the home, or staying at home.
Remind me again why this is bad?

I'll tell you how my childhood worked for me, in case you were curious.

My mother (not that one persons experience amounts to a hill of beans) did not work while we were young.  My fondest memories of her and my father include her chain smoking all day long (when he was at work), drinking, and her watching TV for most of the day.  When we were old enough to go outside in the summers, she's shoo us outside after breakfast and warn us not to come back until lunch.  After lunch, back outside until dinner. After dinner, she and my dad drank and fought.

After a particularly heinous fight where the land lady came over (she lived next door) she threatened to put us all out on the streets.  Things got better after that...then there was only the fighting without the drinking, which was a big improvement.

When I was about 10-11 or so, she got a job at a fabric store.  I think it helped her a lot.  There was much less fighting (maybe they were fighting about money before..I truly don't remember what the fights were about, curiously).  Maybe she needed to be away from the house.  I don't know.  All of a sudden she had some friends, she seemed much brighter and happier, and things in my world were better.  

My sister and I were alone after school until 5 or 6, when she came home.  We were given the responsibility of doing some after school chores and sometimes got to fix an easy dinner on occasion.  Or Mom would leave a casserole for us to put in the oven.  Before my sister discovered boys, we had fun together after school w/o Mom.  After my sis discovered boys, she had fun with them after school, and I did the few chores we had and fixed dinner by myself.

Do I remember feeling lonely without my mother?  Not at all.  I remember feeling proud that I was in charge (after my sister discovered boys) of the house and was trusted to fix dinner or do some chores alone.  I was relieved when she came home, not because I had been alone for a few hours, but because now when she came home, she had a smile on her face, a kiss for my Dad when he got home, and talked about "the girls" at work, their lives, their kids, what she did at work, and we all talked.  

In the summers, we did get to go to work with her sometimes, and we got to fold some of the fabrics, or help customers sometimes.  I adored it.  We sometimes went to nearby stores and helped them if we got shooed out of Moms store.  Of course, this was a different time.

She and Dad were able to put us through college, though I was expected to get a part time job for my own extra expenses.  My sister dropped out (she was always the wild one) joined a religious cult, got married, had babies, got out of the cult, got divorced, eventually went to school on her own and has a good life.  

So that's my persepective.  

Or am I still being snide?  I often can't tell, so someone let me know.




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167 tn?1374177417
RR-I am just curiously bringing up a question here for my own personal reasons. Do you feel differently about a mother who works outside the home and leaves her children/child with grandparents, close friends or other family?

I struggle with both of these worlds. I struggle with "what nature intended" and reality. The reality is that I have five children and I need to work. I was a SAHM until my youngest daughter went to school. When I was a SAHM, I struggled with anxiety and depression and often felt like I was not even a part of the real world. I did not breastfeed my children. Interestingly enough, after having my son a year ago, I went back to work FT when he was about 3 months old. I exclusively breastfed until he was abotu 9 months old and continued part time breastfeeding until he was 11 months old. Of course, I had to pump 2-3 times while at work but until he was 6 months old I raced out to the car, drove home and nursed him so I could bond as much as possible.

In my opinion (not that you asked for it), what is ideal is if a woman can work outside the home part time. My happiness increased dramatically once I worked outside of the home when the girls went off to school full time. I bought my own car, had my own friends and made some spending money. I loved it. What didn't work out though, is my marriage. My ex husband became abusive because he was insecure. He didn't like that I had my own money and forget having friends, a social life or my own car. My keys were often hid by him and I had to walk to work, or find a ride to the store. That was his problem, not mine. Of course, my marriage probably would have lasted had I not worked outside of the home. Or not.

I guess I'm not even sure where I'm going with this, other than that there should be a happy medium. Women should be allowed to find happiness also and a happy woman can be a much better mother. I found myself so out of touch with the world around me, I forgot how to interact with adults. At friends houses, I found myself off playing with an interfering with the children more than the adults.

The ideal situation in my opinion would be a mother who has some education and a part time job. One where she can earn some money, contribute to finances and find balance between her parenting, household duties and her own social life. She should nurse her children because that is what's best. It often times is not easiest but I do believe it is best. She will hopefully have friends or family that will help care for her child because I believe it takes a village. And she will hopefully have a loving, supportive husband who will support her and help rear the children, including diaper changes, baths, and meals. THIS is the real world now. In the 50's or even 70's, men did not help with the children as much as they do now.

That's my two cents.
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13167 tn?1327197724
Well,  I just had an epiphany.  I hope it comes across clearly.

I had (have) great parents.   They're still married after 50 years,  and my husband also has great parents,  married 52 years.  Both of us were raised lovingly,  with fun mothers who loved being with us and were good wives and mothers.  Home was very important,  and I have warm memories of my childhood and my stay at home mother,  as does my husband.  When I speak to my children,  my mother's words come out my mouth all by themselves (we all do that,  thank God my words are loving and caring).  I hear my mother's voice in my voice when I speak to my children,  and I have been shown a good pattern to follow,  I can't imagine how different my life would have been in daycare,  but I did get a taste of it on Thursday mornings at the Base Nursery when my mom played bridge.  I used to sit on the care workers foot and cry the whole time I was there - I remember it clearly.

Like young people who think marriage is unimportant because they've seen their parents go throught multiple meaningless bad partnerships,  I think maybe people who didn't have loving home lives with attentive mothers in their preschool years also think staying at home is unimportant - because for them,  it wasn't happy.

So.  Maybe that's it.  You had to experience a good situation to understand that it was better than daycare.

And BTW,  the CNN article,  I think I made it pretty clear that it was showing the trend of women in the workforce wasn't necessarily increasing,  to counter Peek's statement that it was increasing.  I think saying "I think this is a misspent life" maybe should have helped make the statement clear that these aren't mothers.

So,  carry on.   I really feel like this is an important point - what you grow up knowing,  you learn from,  and want to make life decisions based on personal experience.  So if you had a poor parenting situation as a preschooler,  I think we can't really bridge the debate here - because we have different perspectives on value of at home mothering.
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167 tn?1374177417
Oops, I meant "interacting with the children", not "interfering with the children"! :\

And my last paragraph...I realize these circumstances are hard to come by. Most families don't have friends and family willing to help with their children and a lot of women don't have men at all. If they do, not all help with household duties. I'm just stating that that scenario, in my opinion, would be the perfect one for myself.

I would absolutely love to find employment where I can be home more. I currently work FT and I am so tired. I am actively seeking part time employment and have decided not to continue my education beyond the AA degree I just got. It takes too much time away from my family, which is my number ONE priority. I would love to have more time at the family table having meals, praying and sharing stories about our day. We try to connect at least two or three times during the week at the dinner table for prayer and "highs and lows" of our day, but to me it isn't quite enough. I want more. We have been fortunate to have family and friends carry us through our sons first year of life so that we don't have daycare costs and don't have to worry about him being in some strangers care. But, come September, we are faced with a very tough decision. I can either quit working, or stick our infant son in daycare. I don't want either. I have three weeks to figure it out. I'm so, so torn. The thought of someone other than a very, very trusted family or friend caring for him makes me panic. I just don't think I can do it. It doesn't feel right.
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167 tn?1374177417
I grew up in two very, very different worlds, which probably explains why I am so torn between both worlds now.

I was raised first by two abusive (to each other) drunk/drug addicts. Finally, after my father nearly beat my mother to death in front of me, they divorced (THANK GOD). Then, because my mother was a drunk/drug addict single mother, she went to work two full time jobs and we never really saw her much. When we did see her, she was drunk. She was in and out of treatment.

BUT, while all of this was happening, most of the time we were cared for by my loving grandparents. Church goers, active in the community, married for nearly 60 years before my grandfather passed a few years ago. My grandmother never worked outside of the home until he passed. She made us meals, taught us lessons, took us to church and helped support my sick mother. Their other three daughters all married, are still married, successful and happy. My mother is the black sheep.

My whole life I have taken hold of the lessons my grandmother taught me and resented my mother. I have always strived to be like grandma. She is a saint and I am so blessed to have had her there to help ease the mess my parents made of their lives.
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171768 tn?1324233699
i agree that if we continue this discussion in this tone, it can be both interesting and insightful ... but i'll have to chime in later. gotta get a fence estimate...
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13167 tn?1327197724
By and large, I really think grandparents ( and also usually sisters and sisters in law) are great.  

I do understand that many women feel disconnected when they are at home,  and they feel like they don't get much adult time.  Here's again,  where experiences are different.  When my first was born,  there was a new mother network where you could come and sit on the floor in a big carpeted room and chat.  They had lists of resources for joining playgroups,  museums,  etc.,  and where to meet other mothers.  I was very connected,  and did things with other moms and kids probably 4 days a week.  If you don't jump right into that,  it would be terribly lonely.  So I get that.

I wish you the best in your decision,  Jen.
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167 tn?1374177417
Thanks RR.

I agree. Discussions like these don't have to be disagreements. It is always good to see both sides. I cannot say that I disagree with anything I have read here. I am in the middle. RR and Peek, you have both, IMO, added some very valuable insight.
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152852 tn?1205717026
I kind of felt lost when I first started to stay home (while pregnant--I was working at a home daycare and kept getting sick and my ob/gyn told me that if my job isn't putting food on the table, I should quit so I stop getting sick).  Anyway...it was hard.  I was ingrained in the whole mentality of identifying who I was with what I did for a living.  When our son was a toddler, I remember going to a barbecue that one of my husband's coworkers had--two different women who worked for the company came up to me at different times during the course of the afternoon and started a conversation with me.  All went well until they asked me what I "did".  When I told one, her face dropped and she saw someone else she had to say "hi" to and she excused herself.  The other went on about how bored she'd be staying home with her kids and how rewarding her career was.  I felt awful that day.  It wasn't until I surrounded myself with like-minded women in the same situation that I felt better and not so lost.  I knew in my heart that my job was WAY more important than theirs, but that's not what society believes--it's not what they believed.

This is where I think new SAHMs struggle--I think many women have become like men in that they identify who they are by their careers.  It seems to me that the pendulum is swinging back to society respecting moms being home with their children, but when my 12 yo was a baby, it wasn't like that.  It may still be like that now, but I simply am not around people who make me feel bad about being home with my baby, so I really wouldn't know for certain.

And I have similar memories to RR's--my mom was home and loving and played games with us and let us play with the hose and eat popsicles and she took us sledding and plopped down and made snow angels with us and she raked piles of leaves for us to play in and she handmade all our Halloween costumes and she was my Girl Scout troop leader and she was just very, very involved.  Perhaps my view of this topic would be different if I had experienced something different growing up.

I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings.  I do understand that different people have different life experiences and different situations warrant different choices.
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93654 tn?1247502934
Jen, I think working part-time would be the ideal as well. Unfortunately for me, I would lose my benefits if I dropped to part-time and dh's job doesn't have insurance. I could take a pay cut, but not a pay cut AND losing my insurance. Hopefully someday, I'll find a p/t job that pays enough so we can afford to get insurance on our own.

RR, my mom stayed home with me and my 4 siblings. She didn't go to work until I was in 4th grade. My home life was great, all 4 of us went on to graduate from college and have good careers and we're all still married to our spouses. And yet, I don't necessarily think it was better than daycare would have been. So I hate to burst your epiphany...and maybe I didn't, because I'm only one person. I really don't mind the beliefs that you have and who knows? Maybe your opinion IS right. But I am one of the people who does the best they can. I'm taking tomorrow off to be with DS and I try to do that as often as possible.
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172023 tn?1334675884
I'm not at all saying my mother was not loving.  She loved us very much.  She did the best she could.  I don't know what went on in my infancy or very early childhood, as I don't have memories back then as others apparently do.  But I'm sure she was not abusive.  
I remember life getting a whole lot better after she went to work.  And I'm sure her working financed my college.  For that, I'm so grateful.  I doubt I could have done it without my parents help.  Or at least, it would have been much harder and taken a lot longer, and I just don't have that sort of attention span. I might have not finished.  

I'm just saying that there is no one clear answer.  The answer is not "nature says you should do XYZ" and that's that.  There are always shades of gray.  We have choices, and no one should be made to feel as though they are damaging their child.  I grew up ok, despite the fighting parents and a good deal of disfunctionality in our family.  You can also have the most loving family in the world and grow up to have serious problems.

And as for the article..those women are clearly from a different income group than would probably be the norm around here.  Most of them don't "have" to work, or have money issues that can be easily solved by simply cutting back on expenses.  Not everyone has such simple solutions to money problems.

I'd love to not work.  I've worked enough, I think.  I enjoy it, but there comes an end to everything.  Right now, its important that we keep the house in North Carolina.  Its important to my husband right now to have his job here.  We're a family, for all our warts.  So we have to have 2 full time incomes--again, its about our choices, not what nature intended.  I still cook and do most of the "traditional" female household duties--I love to cook.
We're winding down the spending, but we live on a cash and carry basis anyway.  No more unauthorized motorcycles are coming into the Peekahold.  In fact, his majesty just sold the 4 wheeler.  I think he'll sell a couple more bikes.  Still, in SoCal, its very expensive to live.  So I'll be working a while longer.  





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552767 tn?1262191776
RR: My mom stayed home with five kids, she didn't go back to work until I was well into my teens and my youngest sibling had started school. My mom did a great job with us. We achieve well academically, have good friends, are happy etc. I don't regret the time my mom spent with us as I love her dearly but I would have been happy for her to be a working mom if thats what she wanted as would the rest of my family. I believe we turned out well because of who our parents were, not because my mother happened to be a SAHM.

And for the record I fully intend on having children one day but I also fully intend on being a working mom. Just because I had a good childhood with my mom at home does not mean I am going to do likewise when I have kids nor does it mean that I would have had a bad childhood or turned out differently just because my mom worked. All parents have to let their kids go to some degree at some point be that at daycare, school or a private childcare provider.

I believe women should have a choice. Working moms who have to work should not be made to feel guilty for working but neither should moms who CHOOSE to work because it is what they want. I am in the middle of a difficult, prestigous degree in a top university in my country. (I am honestly not bragging I am saying this purely for the purpose of my point of view)  I worked my a$$ off to get into it and I have to work darn hard to keep my place. At the end I will get an excellent, well paying job. That is my dream, it is also my dream to have children. I am not going to give up one dream for the other nor do I have to. I believe that I have the ability to do both and neither will suffer as a result of the other. I have not studied for years to give it all up to be a SAHM. Not that there is anything wrong with that as long as It is something you want, as I said my mother was a SAHM even though she was a qualified nurse and I have the utmost respect for her. I know I do not have children so I may have to rethink doing both when I do but women should have a choice in my opinion.

Sorry this is so long, I didn't mean it to be!
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152852 tn?1205717026
You'll rethink it.  Trust me.  It's only natural to look into that little face, in total awe of the miracle of it all, and not want to be apart all day.  Your desire to work may outweigh that and you may choose to stay home or work part-time or whatever...but have no doubt--you will rethink it when the time comes.
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172023 tn?1334675884
And back we go.

I always knew I would work.  I wanted to be a nurse, I went to school to be a nurse, I enjoy(ed) being a nurse, and knew I could do both.  
I feel I was in awe of my babies, loved them, took care of them...AND  worked.  Full time.  Did I want to be apart from them?  No.  But that's what I choose, and again...its about choice.  I didn't have to use a lot of daycare, but there were times they went, according to my schedule.  

Don't insist she'll "rethink" it, as if she has the incorrect thinking right now.  She may rethink it, she may not.  Either way, she sounds as if she'll do what she wants, which is as it should be.  I believe she'll love her babies, working or not.
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184674 tn?1360864093
This is where I feel weird. When my son was born, I had that awe of him and was (and still am) completely in love with him. But at the same time, I have never had issues about being apart from him for a few hours at a time. None at all.
I guess I'm abnormal that way, that I don't feel a strong need or desire to be with my son when he's separated from me for 3-8 hours at a time. Granted, I think about him, talk about him, brag about him, gaze at his pictures, and LOVE going to pick him up from daycare and have him jump into my arms with a huge grin on his face and yell, "Mommy!"
But at the same time, he's eager to get to daycare in the mornings and gets excited when I pull into the parking lot. He's always been this way, even as a baby. So I know he has no issues of separation anxiety. I know he's in the care of people I can trust and that will look after for him lovingly and diligently.
Most importantly though, I know the trust and bond between my son and me is what makes this possible. Trevor KNOWS that I'll always come back for him, I'll always be there to take care of his important needs first, and I'll be there for him at the drop of a hat if they call me. He knows this and is secure in this, because I've never let him down. I think that's what makes any parent/child bond what it is, whether working parents or SAHMs.
Or maybe I'm just abnormal and a bad mom with an abnormal son.
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165308 tn?1323190145
I had a wonderful childhood with a stay at home mom.  It was like "leave it to beaver"..(I know I keep using that show!).

However, I work, and LIKE to work...AND I ADORE MY DAUGHTER!

So, I had a great childhood with a SAHM and I choose to be working mom.  Not only is money an issue (big issue), but I am happier when I am working.  It is my personal decision.  However, I do not feel it hurts my child in any way.  I know she is also a very happy little girl and well-adjusted.  
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184674 tn?1360864093
Daycare or no daycare, perhaps the *quality* of the parent/child relationship is the foundation of what's most important, rather then the *quantity* of time spent in the parent/child relationship.
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152852 tn?1205717026
I said nothing different than what you said, Peek.  You just obviously are watching and trying to find something inflammatory in what I write.  And that's ok.

I just think that everyone rethinks things when they are actually IN the situation no matter what they may think while imagining being in the situation.  I didn't say she'd CHANGE HER MIND...I said that she'd rethink it (think about it again).  I think it would be pretty abnormal to make a life decision like that about the future and never think about it again when you get to that particular point in life.

No "and back we go".  Unless you want to, of course.  :)
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165308 tn?1323190145
I agree with the "quality" instead of "quantity'...however, I am sure that there will be people to debate this with you, just because they cannot bend on their opinions!
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152852 tn?1205717026
I don’t really need to write that a young child being home with mom is best unless the mother is a neglectful, abusive addict, who does not want to be with her child, do I?  I really didn’t think I would have to specify that, but maybe I do?  If the quality of home life is bad, the house is filthy and/or smoke-filled, and the mother is abusive, neglectful, and/or has addiction issues, and doesn't want to be with the child, then the child would obviously be better off in an institutional setting with people who will keep him safe and entertained.  If the mom is a decent person who enjoys being with her child and can keep him safe and entertained, then I believe the child is better off being with her.
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