4 Year Old Anger Problems

[tiredmomof2]

My son is almost 4 1/2.  He is an intelligent, articulate delightful child about 75% of the time.  He does well in preschool (no discipline problems) and also in his activities (karate and gym classes).  We are having a problem with his frustration and anger.  He seems to have a very short fuse and can be quite moody at times.  When he becomes angry, he becomes destructive.  He rarely hits me, but he will clear off a table, intentional spill things on the floor, and hurl things across rhe room.  I discipline him with time outs and removing privileges and toys.  When I take away toys, he has to earn them back with good behavior.  (And yes, I have resorted to a spanking when things get really out of control).  A common scenario (about once a week) is a "snowball effect" with his anger.  For example, I will be in the middle of putting him in time out and he throws a hot wheel that he had been playing with at me as I am putting him in time out.  Once timeout is over and he is looking for his hot wheel, I will explain to him that the toy has been put away because he threw it at me.  He then will become angrier and quite destructive.  These episodes are very troubling to me.  During these episodes, he has broken things, put a hole in the wall (slammed the door into it and the door stopper was gone), cleared off tables and urinated on the floor.  He does urinate on the floor occasionaly when he becomes very angry with me, sometimes because he did not get his way.  He is aggressive with his little sister when he becomes angry, but not with other children.  I have tried to be as consistent as possible with discipline (but I know that I am not 100% consistent).  He and his sister do fight over my attention fairly often.  He is a much easier child one on one without his sister around.  I do not think he as ADD.  He has no problem focusing on a task or sitting through a movie.  His preschool teacher told me she does not see any signs of ADD.  He does require a lot of love, huggs and reassurance from me.   I am very good at pointing out and praising him all the times he plays great with his sister or behaves.  I think he knows what behavior I expect out of him.  I do have a friend of a friend, a physician, who says his behavior is not normal and he needs to see a psychologist. (She has never met my child).  What do you think?  Is this normal 4 year old behavior?

[Kevin Kennedy, Ph.D.]

It's difficult to say with any certainty without a more thorough evaluation. At the very least, your son's behavior indicates a behavior problem that requires a systematic plan of behavior management (see Lynn Clark's book titled SOS: Help for Parents). The behavior is pretty extreme and may represent the early signs of an emotional disorder. Is there any family history of mood disorder (e.g., depression or bipolar disorder)? When children of your son's age experience some obstacle to their pleasure, wishes, etc., they often have some difficulty managing the frustration and anger that ensue. It's part of the normal course of development to learn to handle frustration. So, angry outbursts are not uncommon at the age of four. However, your son's outbursts are certainly at the far end of the spectrum in relation to their intensity. If there is no underlying emotional disturbance, over the span of the next year you should witness more and more progress in his control of the anger that comes with frustration. You would certainly do no harm by seeking an evaluation at this point. At the very least, such an evaluation can (a) clarify what is going on and (b) offer you the opportunity for some consultation re: behavior management.

[WalkersD]

I'm certainly no expert, but have you researched the possibility of Oppositional Defiant Disorder? You can find many resources on the internet. My son displayed similar symptoms, he even urinated in the house in anger, except he also had anxiety and some autistic like symptoms. He was eventually diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome which is a form of high functioning autism. ODD is usually associated with another overlapping condition, such as Asperger's in my son's case. I know how frustrating and painful this is for you because I've been there. I wish you the best of luck.

[tiredmomof2]

Thanks for your input.  I have never heard of ODD.  I guess I have been baffled because he only acts this way at home - never at school or with babysitters.  Can you turn a disorder on and off like that?  He is sometimes embarassed by his behavior after he has calmed down.

[WalkersD]

My son behaves well at school as well. The doctor that diagnosed him likened it to a pressure cooker...holding back negative feelings until he is in a safe environment in which he's comfortable (home) and then exploding. Another analogy is a person trying to hold back a tic for hours and then when safe at home, the tics become worse because they were withheld. It is entirely possible that your son does not have a disorder and is just misbehaving because he's testing the waters. But, in light of the serious behaviors you have described, it would be prudent to have him evaluated by a child psychologist or psychiatrist. Hope this helps somewhat.

[KarenF2]

Whew-I have been looking in so many places to see if there's an association between behavior and my child's epilepsy. My daughter is 5 and will display aggressive and out of control behavior at home when she does not get her way. She's kicked the closet doors in her bedroom, so hard that they often come off their tracks, and will scream to the point she can't calm herself down. We've tried timeouts and taking away priveleges, and they seem to work for a day, but she continues to repeat these reactions not seeming to learn over time. My husband and I are at our wits end. I'm looking for solutions in how to deal with this, and to figure out if it could be related to her epilepsy (she's been diagnosed with benign rolandic epilepsy) or if I just haven't found the right discipline solution as a parent to get her to stop. Occassionally she will have a fit in public or at a family member/friend's house, but it seems to happen more frequently at home. Any recommendations on what to do or where to go for assistance would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks.

[bruised]

Thank god for the internet! My 3 1/2 yr old is also an angel anywhere but at home...when he is thwarted (ie we say no..) he turns from a beautiful intelligent boy into a hitting, punching, scratching, kicking, pushing little, i hate to say, monster! We have tried the time outs, the removal of toys and priveliges, all to no avail. My mum was recently diagnosed with terminal cancer and I live about 200 miles away from her. I'm at my wits end. I know that he is reacting to the situation, but it is so extreme. My husband is 6ft 7, and he was hit around the head so hard, his glasses flew off. Even he has problems keeping the door closed during a time out. I know I am preoccupied at times with my mums situation, but I am really trying to keep giving him one-to-one attention. Any suggestions?! And to all those who have posted with their childrens problems, you are not alone!
Thanks.

[mosmome]

We have an almost 4 year old.  Everything is a battle with her.  Eating and sleeping are probably the worst.  She was born pre-mature, so getting enough to eat is always our concern.  But if we aren't giving her what she wants to eat, she kicks, screams, crys and throws the food.  Resturants are out of the question.  We learned that the hard way!  At wits end, I finally called a behavior clinic at the hospital she was born, and they gave me some tips.  Of course, they don't work on my child!  They told me to give her three strikes and you're out.  First, count to five, constantly reminding the child that if you get to five before the behavior doesn't improve, a time out is coming.  Obviosly, we almost always get to five!  Second, the time out.  The child needs to understand that they cannot get up until the behavior improves.  Third, if after a series of starting the time out over, the child gets a spank.  The child needs to know this behavoir is not acceptable.  Our daughter has gotten to the point where she knows when we are about to get to the spank, so she makes herself throw up.  This, too, is not acceptable.  She is not always this way outside of our home.  We camp, and she is almost always good.  Other people have babysat her, and she was good.  I don't get it. She is also an only child, an only grandchild on both sides, and an only niece on both sides.  She doesn't have any competition.  Is that the problem?  Does she have something to prove?  The only hope I have is that we are not alone.  That we are good parents, and our child just doesn't know how to deal with frustration.

[tierdmom]

I have a three year old daughter who was born premmie.  She has been having asthma like symptoms.  She fights her treatments and screams when the doctor walks in the room.  She seems to be more aggressive with her brother and sister.  She cries all the time and demands stuff all the time.  I don't know what to do.  We can't find out what is wrong with her because she won't even let the doctor near her.  She so horrible at home our four year old son locks himself in his room.  Can somebody give me any suggestions?

[wornoutmom§dad]

My daughter is 4 years old and I am afraid she is going to give my husband and I a heartattack at 25 and 27!  She is our first born and our son is 2.  We have tried the time out approach, the sit in the corner approach, sending her to her room and last spanking.  Nothing works, we rarely spank her because it just makes her more angry.  Before getting in trouble she will act up like a normal 4 year old.  Take a toy from her brother or want something that she can't have.  Once she is confronted by myself or my husband or one of the grandparents she goes completely out of control.  Here is a perfect example of our daily "problem" with her:  My mother took my daughter and son to church with her yesterday like every Sunday.  My daughter was acting up in church, bothering her brother and so on.  My mother had to leave church.  All the way out to the car she was kicking and screaming.  Once in the minivan she kept hitting and punching my son in the face.  (My poor son, he is so soft hearted.  He wont hit back, he just crys.)  My mom had to stop about less than 1/4 mile from the church and put her in the very back seat of the minivan.  She found her baby carrier she has for her dolls and through it at my son hitting him in the head.  Grandma had to stop again and spank her, which just makes her more angry.  The church is only 2 miles from my home and my mother was just in tears because she couldn't do anything for my son.  When we send her to her room, she will find anything to hit the wall with.  She will jump up and down and scream and cry.  But, in school she wont talk, at all.  Not even to the teacher.  Not one word.  If the teacher asks her to clean something up she has no trouble out of her.  In fact the school always tells me what a huge help she is and that they wish all the children were like her.  They don't believe how she is at home.  We dont know what else to do!!!  We love on her and praise her when she does something right.  She is so smart, so we praise her when she spells her name or her brothers name and other things like that.   I hate saying this and would never say it where she could hear it but she is rarely my little angel.  She is acting like a monster.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

[bruised]

Just a quick note. I've got some omega fish oil today ("aids concentration") and I'm going to try him with this. We probably won't see any difference for a couple of weeks, but I'll post here to let you know :) I'm also going to talk to our health visitor (not sure what the term would be in America) although the last time we talked, she just told me to do the usual time outs etc....which aren't working! When my son starts at the moment, I've started to go outside into the garden (locking the door!) and trying to ignore the noises from inside the house until he calms down..at least then I don't get a battering! It also gives me a chance to collect myself and I'm more able to deal with him patiently. Needless to say, I make the house as child-proof as possible before I do this! I can always hear him and know exactly where he is, as long as he can't see me, he seems to calm down alot quicker...the ultimate in ignoring bad behaviour! Hang in there folks and as always, you are not alone!

[timmom]

I have a four year old who recently started preschool.  He was kicked out of the last preschool he attended.  He is not paying attention in class and runs out of the room .  The school and i have set a date to do a full assessment on him.  The teacher says he is not allowed to attend school without me or my husband being there with him throughout the day. We both work and this is putting a strain on our jobs and marriage.  At home he is a typical 4 year old.  He also has a speech delay.  The teacher at the preschool says he throws tantrums and starts throwing everything off the shelves in the classroom.  He does not do that at home.  We appreciate any suggetions you might have.  Do you think he might have autism.  He cannot concentrate on tasks he is given.  Does not follow directions.  He finds it very difficult to manage his anger.

[woofytoyou]

These behaviours sound just like this little 5 year old boy that I am babysitting.  He is cruel to animals and small children, there can be none around, and he is violent and has rages.  But he is on his 'honeymoon' behaviour so far with me, as I am just the respite worker.  He is controlling and knows how to manipulate people of all ages to get his way.  He is on 2 medications, strattera and risperidone, for his  ADHD and Oppositional Defiant Disorder.  
Noone likes to medicate kids, but they are really helped because it calms them down, and in noway turns them into zombies or sleepy.  The child is able to make friends and be more socially respectful of himself and others.
I would get your child assessed, and diagnosed so treatment can help with the tantrums and antisocial behaviours.
woofytoyou

[karen67]

I am so glad I read this-
I have an almost 4 year old son who is displaying many of the same traits discussed on this forum.
He is incredibly smart and articulate , and wonderful in so many ways. This same child has a terrible temper, and cannot seem to stop hitting, primarily his one year old brother, who is totally passive. He will just walk past his brother and shove him down, or punch him, for no reason. Time outs, revocation of privleges, loss of toys or playtime- nothing seems to deter him from his need to hit others. He has begun doing the same thing to me as well- he cannot play nicely, if he sees me playing with his brother, he will immediatley come over and head butt me, or punch me.  His tantrums are monumental, both at home and in public. If he does not get something when he's in the store, ( and he does not- )we sometimes have to actually leave because of his behaviour.  He is also now refusing to nap during the day- so there is no break from it. We do alot of things with him, outdoor activities, and he goes to a preschool class 3 xs per week. So ,it's not as though he is not getting any attention. We use positive verbal reinforcement, and I spend a good deal of time alone with him during the day, while his brother is napping.
We are trying the "setting limits " method with him, and are having some sucess with it. Still ,I am afraid there may be more serious problems here, such as ODD, which was something I never heard of - and I thought I'd heard pretty much everything!
I'd be happy to hear any thoughts on the hitting factor.
Also, has anyone had any luck using the Omega or fish oil?
Thanks.

[Exhausted Mom of 2]

We were starting the fish oil (cod liver oil) for our 4 year old son's ADHD.  He's also on medication (Adderall (adderrall)) to help with this.  In talking to our son's psychiatrist about this, he said that adding the fish oil is not going to hurt him, but you have to watch his Vitamin A and Vitamin D levels as too much of these things can be harmful.  Both of these vitamins are in the cod liver oil.  He suggested we continue with the cod liver oil but also to add Flax Seed Oil to his diet as this helps at times and it doesn't matter how much of this is in his system.  I then went to GNC to get some and they told me that the fresh oil that is in their refrigerated section and has an expiration date on it is best.  This oil is unfiltered and doesn't have anything artificial in it.  I have not gotten any of this yet as they were out that day but I fully intend on getting some and trying it.  Just some more information for everyone out there dealing with an ADHD child of any age.

[karen67]

Hi-thanks for helping with the information regarding the Omega oils.
Can you tell me what age your little boy was when you had him evaluated? And did they do any diagnostic testing?
The only reason I ask is because I also  thought we should have these things done with our guy, only to be told twice that he was too young for any kind of evaluation, and that the only thing we could do was " alot of parenting" - Isn't that what we all do anyway?  
Thanks- have a good day.
Karen

[Exhausted Mom of 2]

Karen,

We had our son evaluated back in February of this year, which he would have been 3 1/2 years old.  The Psychologist saw him once and said that he absolutely would refer him to a psychiatrist.  He couldn't sit still in the psychologists office and was even climbing on his desk at times, wasn't listening, etc.  We met with the psychiatrist in April and they started him on 10mg of Ritalin.  He had numerous temper tantrums like I've never seen before and times where he acted like he had no idea where he was.  The psychiatrist thought it was what he called "emotional rebound" when a child is coming down from the medication.  So, he added another 10mg pill for him to take at noon.  This helped for a while but then his preschool was saying he couldn't focus and get anything done like the other kids in his class.  We then started him on Straterra at night.  This worked, too, for a while but then his early childhood teacher said he still had so much energy and they couldn't get him to sit still long enough to do anything.  Last week, we started him on 15mg of Adderall (adderrall).  This has some issues, too, as it is now making him clingy and cry to the point where he says he can't stop crying.  The psychiatrist is now thinking of dropping him to 10mg of Adderall (adderrall).  I am on Adderall (adderrall) myself for ADD and only on 30mg, so it surprised me that they started a 4 year old on 15mg.  This is one of the reasons my husband and I want to try the cod liver oil and the flax seed oil to see if this will work so he can be off all medications.  However, I don't think that will be able to happen.  We adopted our son through the foster care system and his biological mother exposed him to a great deal of heroin, cocaine, alcohol, marijuana and cigarettes during pregnancy.  I think we're dealing with a lot more than just ADHD, but we will soon find out through genetic testing.  Good luck and let me know how things are going for you and your child.    Kim

[karen67]

Thank you for sharing this information with me- my heart goes out to you and your entire family. It helped me alot to know that you had him evaluated at this age.
I agree with you in that this does seem like alot of medication for a such a young child.  
Although my son doesn't have the same medical history as your little guy, he shows so many of the same traits, as far as the inability to sit still, concentrate for more than a few min. at a time, the unbelievable tantrums, and the anger issues, especially with the sibling. With regard to the tantrums, mine goes through something similar- he is so out of control he is unable to function at all.
I also agree that they don't fit the ADD description, ( or bi-polar, which has also been brought up to me , and there is history of this in my family)  Found it more sensible that it may be ODD.
We are going to try the Omega Oil and see if there is any help to be had there.
Thanks again for all of your help, and I wish you the best. Please let me know how his testing works out.
Karen

[bruised]

Hiya,

We havn't had much luck with the omega fish oil since my last post, but this is more to do with the irregular dosages...apparently it tastes "disssgustin'!!"  I've tried hiding it it many of my little boys favourites, but to no avail. However, a friend of mine has been using it for quite some time with her little boy and says it has made a remarkable difference in his concentration span and has settled him down. He is still a very active (whirlwind!) child, but all of us have noticed the change in him. I have to say that my son is now settling down a little. The violent outbursts towards me and his dad are now once or twice a week, rather than a few times a day. Don't ask me how! We stopped the timeouts in his room as they seemed to make him much worse (screaming until he vomited, nearly kicking the door of its hinges) and have been stating the consequences clearly, then carrying them out (as usual). The main difference being that, once he reaches the sobbing stage (if you know what I mean?) I tend to take him in my arms until he has calmed down and then we talk about what has just happened. He seems to get through the violent, spawn of satan stage, into being a very very upset little boy. I used to ignore him until he had calmed down completely, but this took a long time and I think the new 'tactic' of comforting when upset has made him feel more secure and more likely to listen and understand when I talk to him about his behaviour. <shrug>

Anyway, I hope you are having a better time of it.
Take care.

[Exhausted Mom of 2]

What did your friend mix the fish oil in that her child will drink it?  I'm also having a hard time getting my son to drink the oil.  I've mixed it with orange juice, apple juice, etc. and he still won't drink it.  Please let me know.  Thanks.

[bruised]

Hiya,
Spoke to my friend today and she doesn't mix it with anything..! It has become such a routine for him that he takes it off the spoon. (Obviously I have told her that her son has no taste buds!) So, back to the drawing board I'm afraid. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.  

Take care.

[bruised]

Sorry...the last post was meant for you. My brain isn't working today...or rather is worse than usual..

[PharmRep]

I was reading the post when I came to the Omega- 3’s and I had to jump in.   My son (4yr) displays much of what has been described on this page.   Very bright pleasant one minute and then mean.  Throwing, hitting, biting.  He has push his 1yo sister down the stairs because he didn’t want her to come up, ect.   He was also late to speak; the neurologist after testing interview and observation seemed to think it was a central processing disorder.  (He also warned that we would hear speculation of Autism/Aspergers, ODD, ADD, and ADHD from other health care professionals, and we certainly did.  He said all these thing were characteristics of a processing disorder and ways the child has learned to cope with the world around him.  
The reason Im posting is currently I am a pharmaceutical rep and have recently started selling the only FDA approved Omega-3. I can only sell it for high triglycerides, but after studying it and all the applications I have learned a lot.
Omega 3 supplements can be misleading.  You need to look at the EPA and DHA content, most are 180/120 - this is the naturally occurring concentration in fish. but not all, some are more some are less  this means most one gram supplements have only 30mg of active ingredient.   Most all of the supplements I have looked at in the store are weighted with more EPA.  Although most of which I have read speaks more to the DHA with children I have also seen researchers touting the EPA.  The problem is they never mention the concentration of EPA/ DHA in the studies, so if you want to give this to your children based on what you’ve read you really don’t know how much to give.  The other problem is that the supplement are largely unregulated.  Mercury is not something you want in your child.  Cod liver oil is a poor choice.
I did however speak with an alterative medicine Dr. about my omega 3 product which she was interested in as she was also selling one of her own at a heavily discounted price to patients.  I can’t remember the name and but it is available at the heath food stores although there it is about 40$.  It is a liquid form, more heavily weighted with DHA and with a lemon flavoring.  This may help with the palatability issue mentioned above.  It is also the most concentrated formulation I have seen in a supplement.
If anyone knows of a study that actually sites the concentration of EPA/DHA please post, EPA/DHA in 1 gram of fish oil can very from supplement to supplement.

[karen67]

Hello - has anyone tried any one particular brand of the fish oil? And where are you finding it?  I can see the point of not being able to get them to take it straight!
I have been looking into  the Omega 3 supplements ( in pill form ) but they obviously were not appropriate for children .I tried a homeopathic ,( since I was not finding anything as far as the Omega 3 's , ) which really was just lavendula, and had NO effect on the little terror at all. It did no harm, but no change either.
Thanks-
Karen
PS: Kim, how are you doing?

[btsmom]

I have four year old twins.  One boy one girl.  My son has been having problems at school.  They tell us that he will throw chairs, toys, kick and scratch the teachers.  Really strange behavior for him.  At home and with family and friends he is very loving.  He will kiss on you for no reason.  Both children are very polite and cudious at home and out in public.  My son loves to sit in the chair with dad and watch TV, even if it is news.  He is very concerned about others.  The twins usually dont fight at home, just the usual tiff here and there.  The school basicly forced us to go seek professional advice, which we did.  The first appointment was just tell the counciler what kind of things were going on and she gave us a few things to work on and the next appointment was set for two weeks away.  During that time I think that the school called us 6 or 7 times about his outbursts.  Everytime they call one of us goes down to school and tried to talk to him to see what was the matter.  All he could tell us is he does not know.  We have tried spanking but I got to thinking that maybe something was going on in the class room maybe something between him and the teachers.  So we stopped because we felt like that was just not fair to him to punish him that way if he just was not able to communicate his feelings to us.  On the second appointment we found out that the couciler was leaving so all the role playing and other things that we were going to work on got thrown right out the window.  On the third visit we meet with the new counciler, during the session I told my son something not to do, then the counciler stepped in and said somthing to him about the same thing and he got mad and started hitting himself and crying.  When I tried to talk to him the counciler interupted me and stopped me he then go really upset turned to the wall and started hitting it.  It went on for about two min. and then I said that I would not let it go this long or get this extreme, the counciler then started to try to come up with things to say to calm him down.  We are so confussed at the behavior only at school never at home or over at family or friends houses.  What do we do????

[exhaustedmomof3]

Wow it's some what comforting to know that there are other parents that are going through the same thing that I am.My son will be four at the beginning of November.He's smart,loved to cuddle, and Smaller then all the rest in his age group.The problem that I am having is the horrible tantrums he has.I can not take him to any store,even going for a walk is difficult.He screams to the top of his lungs,kicks,throws things,throws him self on the ground,and hits his head.When he is in a frantic state like that there is no way to get through to him.I have also tryed taking toys away,time outs in his room with the door locked because he will not go for a timeout for me,taking privilages away such as t.v.,outside,and games.I'm at my wits end with my son.I love him with all my being,but it's really hard to have a child like this when I also have a 6 year old and a new born.Does anybody have any suggestions as to what to do or why he is like this.I thought that as he grew that things would get better,but it's the oppisite it's getting worse with age.

[mamma5]

I was beginning to feel like the only one out there. my 4 1/2 yearold has such extreme responses when he gets upset.  it has been going on since he turned 2.  today at the end of preschool, he got embarassed when he did something he shouldn't and started screaming violently words like stupid and other worse names at me.  when i tried to walk,  him out of the classroom he started biting my hand very hard.  i don't want to spank--a last resort, but time out is ineffective.  he can't seem to control his anger. little things are explosions.  can anyone reccomend a book about this type of behavior and its management?  i don't know what to do. my other children did not do this. i love him. it just gets so overwhelming.  it makes me feel like a horrible mom.

[tiredmomribbit]

I have a 4 1/2 year old son who is incredibly smart and loving like so many people I've read on this site.  He has major temper tantrums with his father and I where he hits, sometimes spits, grabs things like scissors, etc and swings them at us trying to "get" us.  We have taken him to a neurologist who has diagnosed him with ADHD and we've tried Risperdal, Ritalin and now we are trying Zoloft because he semms to have major issues with my husband leaving because of medical issues.  We are trying to decide if keeping him on medicine is the right thing to do.  I know that ADHD and anger issues run in my husband's family (he has at least 1 niece and nephew diagnosed ADHD and the nephew is in treatment for anger issues).  My husband has had medical issues where he was hospitalized for a week and my son's behavior got increasingly worse while he was away.  When he came back then my son didn't want him to even go to work.  For a 4 year old he has been through some really tough medical issues with loved ones (Grandma had cancer surgery twice, his dad's been hospitalized several times, mom had a baby by c-section, an aunt died, etc).  I think all of these issue have something to do with some of the behaviors but we've tried time out, talking, putting him in his room so that he couldn't get out, spanking and nothing seems to work.  We are certainly frustrated and can empathize with everyone who's posted on this site.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[tiredmomribbit]

I have a 4 1/2 year old son who is incredibly smart and loving like so many people I've read on this site.  He has major temper tantrums with his father and I where he hits, sometimes spits, grabs things like scissors, etc and swings them at us trying to "get" us.  We have taken him to a neurologist who has diagnosed him with ADHD and we've tried Risperdal, Ritalin and now we are trying Zoloft because he semms to have major issues with my husband leaving because of medical issues.  We are trying to decide if keeping him on medicine is the right thing to do.  I know that ADHD and anger issues run in my husband's family (he has at least 1 niece and nephew diagnosed ADHD and the nephew is in treatment for anger issues).  My husband has had medical issues where he was hospitalized for a week and my son's behavior got increasingly worse while he was away.  When he came back then my son didn't want him to even go to work.  For a 4 year old he has been through some really tough medical issues with loved ones (Grandma had cancer surgery twice, his dad's been hospitalized several times, mom had a baby by c-section, an aunt died, etc).  I think all of these issue have something to do with some of the behaviors but we've tried time out, talking, putting him in his room so that he couldn't get out, spanking and nothing seems to work.  We are certainly frustrated and can empathize with everyone who's posted on this site.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[sadheart]

I am almost in tears as I read these blogs.  I have a 4 year old daughter who is on the verge of being expelled from daycare.  She has these fits of rage where she will throw chairs or kick people- even her teacher.  She is extremely bright and in relation to her class she is at the top but she cannot control her anger.  She has an almost 3 year old brother that she will play with and then smack him in the face or bite him.  She realizes that her behavior is wrong but she continues to do this despite her punishments of timeouts, going to bed early, no candy or dessert, and yes even spankings.  Nothing works.  I want to have her evaluated by a professional but I do not know where to start.  Would I explain her behavior to her pediatrician or would I try going directly to a child psychologist?  She can be the most sweet, loving child and I only want to help her but I don't want her on medication.  My husband and I are evaluating her diet and we are going to remove all sugar from it.  I hope we will see some improvement by doing this.  We are just at our wits end and I am very sad and tired that I just want to cry for her.  I want her to be a successful child and adult.  I know she needs help but I need to know where to start...

[double T mom]

This is not really a comment but more of a cry for help.  My son who will be five soon, seems to me to be out of control.  He is for the most part an excellent child.  My concerns are this:  he does not want to listen unless a threat is involved, I usually have to count to three or get up, then I here "sorry mom" because he knows this usually means a smack on the butt.  But 2 minutes later it's the same thing again.  He likes to use unpleasent words such as"your a butt crack", "your a dumb hole",and it seems like everything he doesn't agee with is stupid.  A few times I have had to put a bar of soap in his mouth.  I know this sounds mean and I do feel mean, but nothing seems to work. His Dad seems to have a problem disaplining him, everything seems to be funny, it's almost like dad lets him do everything so he doesn't have to disapline him, he also says he feels bad when he does.  He is very emotional and gets his feeling hurt easy.  He seems to get angry fast but does't display violence, he just stomps around and uses his unplesent words.  He usually gets like this when he can't have something, mostly food.  He is not fat or overweight, I think he is very high energy, he hardly ever slows down.  I really doubt he has anytype of disorder.  He  also likes to play ruff with Dad and Grandpa, jumping, hitting, kicking, they think it is funny until the don't want to do it anymore. Grandpa tells me this is normal that's how Dad was, and that kids like to push their mothers to the limit.  When he went to daycare, he was very good he did not display the behavior. He seems to be the worst when there is more than 1 person around that he is comfortable with. Even though I have probably made him and myself sound horrable, I watch those super nanny shows and he seems to be very good compared to some of those children.  Any suggestions?

[double T mom]

This is not really a comment but more of a cry for help.  My son who will be five soon, seems to me to be out of control.  He is for the most part an excellent child.  My concerns are this:  he does not want to listen unless a threat is involved, I usually have to count to three or get up, then I here "sorry mom" because he knows this usually means a smack on the butt.  But 2 minutes later it's the same thing again.  He likes to use unpleasent words such as"your a butt crack", "your a dumb hole",and it seems like everything he doesn't agee with is stupid.  A few times I have had to put a bar of soap in his mouth.  I know this sounds mean and I do feel mean, but nothing seems to work. His Dad seems to have a problem disaplining him, everything seems to be funny, it's almost like dad lets him do everything so he doesn't have to disapline him, he also says he feels bad when he does.  He is very emotional and gets his feeling hurt easy.  He seems to get angry fast but does't display violence, he just stomps around and uses his unplesent words.  He usually gets like this when he can't have something, mostly food.  He is not fat or overweight, I think he is very high energy, he hardly ever slows down.  I really doubt he has anytype of disorder.  He  also likes to play ruff with Dad and Grandpa, jumping, hitting, kicking, they think it is funny until the don't want to do it anymore. Grandpa tells me this is normal that's how Dad was, and that kids like to push their mothers to the limit.  When he went to daycare, he was very good he did not display the behavior. He seems to be the worst when there is more than 1 person around that he is comfortable with. Even though I have probably made him and myself sound horrable, I watch those super nanny shows and he seems to be very good compared to some of those children.  Any suggestions?

[tracy3]

Hi-I just discovered this forum and what a relief to see that i'm not the only one with a "difficult" child. My son is 3 1/2 and has been diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome. Does anyone else have experience with this? I would love to hear from you if you do. THe symptoms include: problems with social interaction, limited area of interest(may be intensely interested in one or two things), repeats words or phrases and other social issues. My concern however is his temper and "fits of rage" if you will. It takes nothing to set him off. He will even take out his hitting, pushing, or screaming on complete strangers. I feel like he is a bomb just waiting to explode at any time. HIs behavior is worse when he's with his 5 yr old sister, fighting for my attention, over toys etc. I've even found myself not visiting friends or family because of his behavior. He's loud, up in people's faces wanting their attention and if they don't respond or talk to him he immediately starts screaming or hitting them. It makes me feel like a bad parent. I'm just wondering if anyone else with a child that has Aspergers also has a problem with the anger.
Thanks

[stressedandsad]

I am going thought simplar situations as posed above. My daughter is 3 1/2 and is on the virge of being thrown out of school. I have been to the pediatrician and she recommended that I take her to see a behavoir specialist and be evaluated for ODD and ADHD. I went to see one and he said that she is too young to be evaluated and that he will develop a behavoir modification plan. I am just sooooo overwhelmed b/c I keep getting told different things and I just want my baby to be happy and healthy and enjoy school. i am now going to take her to get a second opinion at another therapist. The last thing that I want her on is meds but I just have to figure out what is going on. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks. I

[bruised]

I'm no expert, but it sounds as though you're not getting very much (if any) back-up with estalishing clear boudries for your little boy. Maybe you could sit down with your family (without your little boy around) and explain your worries to them in a way that they cannot brush off with 'oh his dad was the same..'  Ask them to try it your way for a certain period of time and see if there is a difference. We found that giving our son clear boundaries (and ignoring bad behaviour/taking away priveliges if it continued etc) became very effective, especially when we asked our family to back us up and conform to our way of doing things. My husband was just the same...he only sees him for a short time on week nights and was loathe to discipline him as he wanted a nice time with his son....he soon came around to my way of thinking after i asked him to try it my way for 4 weeks..there was a big difference. Let your husband know that, rather than being mean, he is actually making your child feel more secure, kind of like the brakes in a car...if you havn't got them, you feel more and more out of control!
I have to say that we have been alot luckier than most of the people on this site...most of our problems were of an emotional nature and we are working our way through them. (The psychologists appt was cancelled after we felt we were making progress...but is still in my address book!) So, the above advice is not written in stone...no guarantees.
Hope everyone out there is coping as well as they can, my heart goes out to you all.
xx

[Carolyn25]

The stuff a lot of you are posting sounds very familiar. Early onset Rapid Cycling Bipolar Disorder. Bipolar doesn't present the same in a kid as it does in an adult. Check out the book by Dimitri Papolos, "The Bipolar Child". Especially page 51. My research has lead me to juried articles in medical journals. I can accept the genetic foundation of these problems but I still want to know why apparently so many of us are dealing with it in the first place. I don't remember hearing about this level of behavior problems in kids when I was little. (dob 1962) I went to a Catholic school. Yes, they were strick but being strick with my daughter never had the same impact. Why? Inquiring minds want to know. I've worked with LOTS of kids in various types of groups. Few are anything like my daughter. I talk to the parents and they don't report the kinds of things my kid did. Curiouser and curiouser. I will get to the bottom of this, if I have to spend the rest of my life reviewing medical journals and tracking research teams. There is a group working out of Atlanta GA that specializes in Bipolar kids. My child doesn't live with me anymore. I have spent countless hours agonizing over whether I was strick enough or not strick enough. What could I have done better? Differently? Anything that I should have or could have done, I would have done it. I heard about the Bipolar stuff too late. It fits my daughter. She had already moved out when the last psych eval was done. By then the mood swings were out of control and even the great liar that she was, she couldn't hide them. I was the only one that would believe her when she said she was sorry. She had burned so many bridges. Mood swings and tantrums take their toll. She has other problems besides the bipolar stuff. I will contiue to search for answers and explanations. I want to know what is causing this stuff. Normal kids don't behave like ours do. Poor parenting and you get a spoiled kid. Change to good parenting and the behavior gets more normal. These kids don't get to and stay at normal without a lot of structure. Lots of structure. Try the book. It will at least help some of you.

[mamumilly]

A related discussion, four year old grandson problem was started.