4 year old Potty issues - refuses to do anything to help!!! - Child Behavior

by khart123, Jan 25, 2005 12:00AM

I do not agree with your assessment of the situation. We have tried for months and I do mean months, to support our son in his growth of going to the bathroom. He is at a stage where he does not care if he goes in the potty or not. To him there is no punishment or at least one that is big enough, to make him desire to go to the bathroom in the potty. We have him clean himself and change the poopy himself and that does not bother him on bit. You suggested that we take the TV away or something along that lines of punishment it would help the situation. We have taken the tv away, and we have for a two week period, he just simply forgets that he wants to watch it and goes and does something else. While I am happy that he does not watch TV I am frustrated that the punishment does not have any real effect on his desire to try to go to the potty.

At this time my wife and I are set on this course of action and we are starting to see small results. We have had two days of no accidents and also two days of a small amount of poopy going in the potty. Both times we have celebrated this event and our child seems to be happy. He does understand now, and I think that we can see some change in him, that if he has accidents he will lose items that he treasures and that he has total control to get them back.

by Kevin Kennedy, Ph.D.

, Jan 25, 2005 12:00AM

Time will tell if things improve. You may be inferring too much re: the extent to which your son is consciously directing his actions in a particular direction. Your message implies that 'he is doing this on purpose'. This is not usually the case with such young children; they don't as a rule have that type of conscious deliberation. Rather, they are somewhat impulsive and very oriented toward immediate pleasure. If you assume conscious, deliberate motives you will tend to personalize a situation which really isn't personal.

by pillow, Jan 28, 2005 12:00AM

When my kids were young they never really had this problem they loved going to the bathroom feeling like that made them big lol . But i did watch this show once and this little girl was still pooping in her pants also what they was told to do is when she did go in the bathroom , make a big deal out of it , make it fun for her , like everyone jumpimping up and down singing how big he/she is . Maybe reward him with something he loves everytime he goes

by momof3boys, Jan 28, 2005 12:00AM

To: khart123

You're story is very similar to mine!!!  I have a 5 yr old still pooping in his pants (sometimes 3-4 times/day).  He has never been completely trained for poop. When he was 3-4 we left him in pullups because we hated to clean up the mess in his underwear all the time.  But he has been in underwear (except at night) for a long time now.  He often poops in his pullup after we've put him to sleep at night and he doesn't seem to care...never gets out of bed to clean up.  Sometimes we will clean him up and then he'll wake up in the morning with more poop in his pullup.

His pediatrician has examined him and said their is no physical reason why he shouldn't be able to poop in the potty.

Last summer, I even started having him wash his own poopy underwear to see if that would help...it didn't.

He always seems to start the poop in his underwear, then he'd say he couldn't get to the bathroom in time.  He used to yell for us to wipe him up,but we would never rush to clean him up.  Then we tried not wiping him up at all. We told him he had to clean himself up even if it took getting into the shower.  This has not worked either.

We've tried rewarding him, by keeping track of "clean underwear/pooping in the potty days" on a calendar.  He could earn a toy/trip to Toys 'R Us.  This didn't work either.

We've also tried not allowing him to play downstairs (where most of his toys are) and kept him from playdates.  This hasn't work either...but we weren't very consistent with these...SO now my husband and I have decided we have to stick to our word and he isn't allowed to play downstairs or have playdates.  We've even put a sign up on the frig to remind him/us and at the same time he's keeping track of clean underwear/pooping in the potty days on a calander.  It's been four days so far and no luck, but we're going to keep trying.

If we don't see any change in a few weeks we'll probably speak with a child psychologist or gastroenterologist for suggestions.

LIKE YOU WE ARE AT OUR WITS END!!!!

by khart123, Jan 28, 2005 12:00AM

Momof3boys- I hate to say this but it is nice to hear that we are not the only ones with this problem.  We have been down that path and still on the road for this issue.  Just this morning I had a long talk with my son’s doctors (very nice young lady) and she told me that she has only seen this problem in a very few kids.  He statement to me was the problem was not physical it was simply a control issue for the child.  Now the real question is what is the issues that is really driving this problem?  I don’t know but we are working hard to find out.  In the mean time I will tell you what we have done over the last few days and we are seeing small amounts of success here and there.

As I stated earlier we are working under the premise that we have to take him out of the comfort zone and make sure that he understands that we are the parents.  So every time he has an accident he is losing toys.  One accident = one toy.  To make this effective we are not taking the items at the bottom of the toy chest either.  We are taking things that he plays with every day.  I know this seems harsh but so far in 3 days we have taken 6 toys and it is starting to have some effect.  Like I mentioned we had some success last night and even a small amount of success was good.  I let him pick out which toy he wanted back and I am hoping it clicked.  We will have to see.

One last thing I read the other day on a site was a lady stated that worked was when the child had a small accident in the under ware she would make them sit on the potty for 5 minutes every 15 minutes.  We have been doing this for the last two days and hoping it works in conjunction with the other stuff.

Anyway I will keep you updated and you please keep me updated if you have any success.  We might be the only two parents with this problem in the world!!!!

by momof3boys, Jan 28, 2005 12:00AM

To: khart123

Yes, it sure is nice to know my husband and I aren't the only ones going through this crazyness! We've been going through this for so many years and I don't know how many more times I can wash my sons dirty underwear. His clothes smell every day and now his bedding is often smelly because he'll poop after going to bed or after waking up in the morning. Also, we often finding poop on the floor! It's just grossing me out!

Have you heard or read anywhere that this could be a psychological problem that we're dealing with????? Friends and family tell me that it isn't and that he has total control over this, but somedays I wonder if I'm punishing him for something he can't control. My husband and I both have a history of mental illness in our families (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder/Anxiety/Manic-Depression) and so I can't seem to get that out of my head lately that this may be related somehow. Any thoughts?

by khart123, Jan 31, 2005 12:00AM

I am by no means a doctor so I am not sure when it comes to the family history.  For my son I think that it is a control issues.  Not a physical control problem it is just a general control issue.  My wife is a teacher and I am project manager for an Internet company.  We both have work lives where we control everything and we are both controlling people.  So I think that this problem for our son is manifested itself  because of his need to take back some of the control that he feels he needs.  He is doing this not because he does not know the problem or simply how to fix it, he does it because he feels like it gives him control over us.  It is something that he and only he can control and if he gives it up, then he might feel like he has nothing to get back at us with when he is mad.

Again I am thinking this is our problem and maybe one of the many possibilities that your son is facing also.  We are going to see a new doctor in the next few days and see if my thinking is on track.  If it is we are going to see how we can help our son feel like he is more in control of his life so he can give this problem up.

I feel your pain about the time, effort and embarrassment we are both going thru over this problem.  I will sign off with this note.  One day last week we had a particularly bad day with our son and this problem.  Here is something I wrote to my wife about another way to look at this problem.  It might help you some it might not but it has helped me view this issue another way

“I have to believe that God wants us to learn something here.  I have to believe he is trying to teach us some humility or patience with our son, because it might be something else in the further that we can use this time we are learning to help him out later on down the road.  There is a reason for everything that is going on right now.  We have to weather it out and grow from it.  I have had that mind set for a while now and that is why it does not bother me.”

Good luck….Keith

by momof3boys, Feb 17, 2005 12:00AM

To: keith hart

Hello Keith,

Hope things are going a little better with the 'potty training'!  Has anything seemed to be helping with your son?  Or anything that you tried that didn't work?

In my last comment I mentioned that my husband and I set some rules with my son...no playdates (over our house or at a friends house) or playing downstairs (which is where most of his toys are) and he cannot have candy,cookies or chips.  We tried this in the past and it didn't work, because we never stuck to our word and would make many exceptions.  This time we have stuck to our word and he now knows we mean it and we're not changing our minds!  He has a calander that he keeps track of days that he keeps his underwear clean/poops in the potty (Sticker) and days that he poops in his underwear (big red X).

It has been almost a month now.  About 2 weeks ago he got 2 stickers, but that was only because he held it in for 2 days.  The past 3 days he has finally got stickers and has successfully pooped in the potty 1-3 times each day.  I have him sit on the potty before leaving for school...after lunch...and in the evening.

The rules have been very hard to stick to because it's sort of a punishment for my husband and I because he sits and plays at the kitchen table most of the day and wants all our attention, because he is not playing with his brothers downstairs or with friends.  BUT he knows we're not changing the rules until he does what he needs to do.

I have an appointment with a gastroenterologist in a few weeks to rule out any physical problem, but I'm hoping we won't need to go if he keeps doing well. We're using lots of verbal praise also throughout the day...reminding him how proud we are of him..this seems to help.

I sure hope things are going better for all of you! Hang in there!!!

Teresa

by ddieterich, Apr 04, 2005 12:00AM

I happened upon your postings and wondered how things are going for you two. My daughter will be 5 at the end of April and has all the sudden started pooping in her pants too. Like your sons she does not care what other people think. Once she said that "she felt like it" when asked why. However, she has been using the potty for two years now and has never had a problem pooping in the potty. I do think it is a control issue and I do feel she knows exactly what she is doing.

I just wonder if things have improved for you at all. Like you I am at my wits end and can't help but think something is wrong.

by momofa10yrold, Apr 06, 2005 12:00AM

Hi, I just found this website. I have been reading everyones comments on this issue. My son is 10 yrs. old and we are having the same problem. It started when he was being teasted at school by his teacher and then was refused when he saied he needed to use the restroom. He had to go and have a tube put up his nose and into his stomache cause he refused to go to the bathroom at all for 1 month. He refused to take medicine to make him go poop. The doctor said now it is a sign of laziness and/or a control issue.We have been dealing with this for almost 5 years. I have tried everything except extreem consistancy. I had to stop working in order to really get this to work. Now that I have read some of the ideas. I am going to try something new. The one that really stuck out to me was the one about taking a toy away from him and keeping a calendar. I am going to try that. I am so embarressed that I do not want to take him anywhere. I do not want people to know about the problem. I am afraid that they might think bad of me. Thanks for being here and for your willingness to post these horibbly embarressing journies. Again I thank you. I really need this.

by lovelife1974, Apr 18, 2005 12:00AM

I don't feel so bad that my just turned 3 year old won't poop in the potty...lol!

by jdwharrington, Apr 20, 2005 12:00AM

Oh how relieved I am to have read your postings. My daughter is a VERY bright 6 year old. We have always had issues with her going poopoo on the potty. She gets very upset when we talk to her about it saying "I already know that I need to go on the potty, you don't need to keep talking about it". She says that she has "accidents" because she can't get to the potty in time or she didn't want to stop playing because she's afraid she'll miss something. It does not seem to bother her to have poopoo in her panties. She has not worn pull ups since age 3. She has no problems going teetee on the potty. She can go on the potty when she wants to (not sure if it's timing or what exactly). She has in the past held it in for so long that we had to go to the ER because she was so backed up. We now give her probiotics once a week to help keep her from getting so constipated. We too have done everything from rewarding her, to putting toys in "time-out" until she earned them back by going on the potty, we've tried calendars and stickers, etc.. But, nothing seemed to phase her. We discussed this with her pediatrician, who simply stated that it was a control issue and we need to not make a big deal out of it at all. Just when she has an accident, simply clean her up without saying anything at all and send her on her way. Nothing is helping.

by momofa10yrold, Apr 21, 2005 12:00AM

Well I tried taking bigger things away. We even made a chart for what wil happen days clean days dirty. Nothing of that sort is working yet. The cleaning of his own things is finally taking toll. He wants to wash them in nice warm water in the sink, but he is not allowed to. He has to wash them in the cold water of the towlet. The other thing, he is not allowed to go to school unless his clothes are clean the night before. He has had 2 times he almost lost out on school. The councelor thinks this is a great idea. It is making him responsible for his own actions. She told me, "You did not make the mess, you do not clean up after him". So if he poops he cleans his own. I think we are getting somewhere. The last 4 days he has been waking up more times than not, clean. Hurray!!! Finally some improvement. The one thing he had to go through was, since we washes his own clothes, he had a reaction to the laundry soap. He used too much. I would tell him how much to use and not too much and he would not listen.. So he had to learn the hard way. He now uses the laundry soap more careful, and he does not have a reaction. Anyway, one thing I was promised, from a friend, "Think about it, he is 6 years old, don't worry. When he gets to be 8 or 9 it will be long over". Well it is not long over. But we are making some headway. We stopped the medicine I had to cram down his throat or hide in his other drinks. He would through a fit. I found out he loves raisins. So raisins it is. They do the same thing only without the screaming and the big fight.
Thank God things are getting better.

by Bee2, Apr 21, 2005 12:00AM

My 4 year old has been doing this pooping stuff too. He was very easy to potty train and was completely trained by the age of 2 1/2. Even at night time, with the exception of an occasional accident, normally my fault for letting him have too much too drink too close to bedtime. This has my husband & I extremely frustrated. Today the preschool called and said he's had an accident every day for the last week, he's never done this at school, just at home. And today it was twice. The poop has actually been falling out of his pants and kids have been stepping in it or even more disgusting picking it up because it looks like marbles. I just don't know what to do. He just gets angry. We take things away, toys, tv. playdates. Nothing seems to phase him anymore. AAGGHH!!!! What do we do. Do i revert back to diapers or what? HELP

by jdwharrington, Apr 21, 2005 12:00AM

Seems like we all have the same problems, but not many answers. Very frustrating. It's good to know that we're not alone though. I felt sure by the age of 4, then 5, then 6 that this would be long over, but here we are still dealing with this. I wish everyone all of the patience that is required to deal with this very frustrating, sometimes embarassing, issue.

by mommy04, Apr 27, 2005 12:00AM

OMG! I am thrilled to find this site. Tonight I was at my wits end and while my 4 year old was screaming on the toilet I decided to dig online and see if there was anything or anyone who can help me.
I have a little girl who does not want to go poop on the toilet. She has done the deed two times and I couldn't believe that huge amount came out of her little body. For a brief dive into her past- when she was about 8 months old we noticed she was holding in her BM's and we couldn't figure out what was going on, then we realized that the rash and all the pain she was having was from her being lactose intolerant. She constantly had tummy aches and soreness on her bottom she started to refuse to go.
Since this we have had a terrible experience with toilet training her doctors have given us advise on everything stating it might be a traumatic experience for her to pass a BM and that she might remember how painful it was. To having med's. We've had her on a teaspoon of mineral oil for months at a time, currently using a 1/2 tsp. of Citrucil hoping that it will help soften her up. We have had her checked and she is completely full of poop, and the doctors tell us that she might have a more serious issue if she doesn't go. Do you think it's bad to give a enema to a child? I don't know what else to do. I wonder if it would give her that jolt to get over her fear because it would just all come out wouldn't it?
On the other note after reading thru everyones comments- now, besides all the medical isssues I'm thinking part of it is starting to be a control thing becuse I get the "Okay mommy." when it's time to tinkle....but i get "Mommy, I just don't want to sit on the toilet anymore, my legs hurt and i want to get off." when it's time to poop- or try to anyways. Also, on days when we try the underware thing, she hides and I find her in a pull-up with poop in her pants. I'm frusterated and I don't know which way to go next! Any more ideas?

by Della29, May 06, 2005 12:00AM

To: Some

To:Bee2 - Is this preschool you talking about located in a school setting or a private one where the restroom is always open.

My reason for asking is when we lived in Missouri ,The preschool my daughter had a restroom always available.When we moved to Alabama , I picked my daughter up from school with wet pants, (the first time I thought to busy playing and had an accident.)But the second time I picked her up and she was wet you can bet we had our outs with the teacher.Come to find out our daughter did not want the punishment of standing against the was during recess. If they had to go to the restroom when they were not suppose to they would have to stand against the wall and miss 15 minutes of playtime.And you can bet we never had the problem of our daughter using the potty in her pants again.(This school knows us well enough to know , not to fool with our kids)Oh I forgot to mention that our daughter started walking at 10 months and was potty trained by 12 months.All by herself.

Ok , My sons are another story.LOL Little Keith is 4 and he is progressing fast these last few months.Sure sometimes he pees in his pants as he sleeps,(But that is accident) He does not want to wear diapers and he says he is a big boy not a baby. Kids master things when they are ready.You can't force them,only heartache for you and the child.Let the child lead for awhile, show them support when needed.My boy don't want a toy for pottying he does not want much at all.All he wants is me to say I love him and he is a big boy.

by Lisa_lou, May 13, 2005 12:00AM

Im glad Im not the only one having this problom. My 4 yr old son does not want to try to go to the bathroom. We have tryed since he was 2 and he doesnt care..he has been punished and dont care. He goes t school or grandparents house, but not at home. Can anyone help please??

Lisa_lou

by munchiesgranny2003, May 17, 2005 12:00AM

Just a thought, but milk allergies can cause frequent accidents in the poop department.  Unexpected where did this come from can't believe it accidents.  One mom was talking about her child starting to poop in his pants and then trying to make it to the bathroom, having had issues with milk allergies, and not figuring it out for ages, brought this to mind. Milk with a bowl of cereal, a cup of icecream, direct related milk products brought on urges that were uncontrollable to an adult and left this granny running to the bathroom.  When I stopped milk products and bulked up on foods I learned to trust the impulse feeling one is suppose to experience to signal potty time, if you know what I mean.  So perhaps with your little guys you could bulk up their foods a little and hope that the urge gives them the time to get to the bathroom.  Our oldest finally learned, he too was a very busy little guy, who would forget...we used to let him drop uncooked brown pinto beans in the toilet while he sat on it.  He liked the plop plop sound the beans made, it was only when he dropped a matchbox car in the toilet that we had to make sure that he understood tht it could only be poop, toilet paper, those silly beans or pee pee that the toilet liked, anything else made the toilet sick....it worked for him.  Now our two year old grandson that is a different story....he calls everything poo poo, even those little toots! And delights in grandpa's gassiness....he even brings grandpa a diaper and says poo poo when grandpa passes gas, so we hvae some potty training humor going on in the house again....but we do remember your frustrations expressed.

So this summer, we are starting wtih the shorts and no diapers, and those old pinto beans,  and doing it the old fashioned way, running inside every 30 minutes of so to feed the potty!  Sounds silly but you know, it worked before.

Never until this moment gave it a thought about how many pinto beans we flushed! lol or what our toilet lines must have looked like! lol  Good luck to all of you.

by Hazey, May 23, 2005 12:00AM

Thank you for sharing your stories!
My 4 1/2 year-old is not poop trained either. Highly intelligent, but says he doesn't have to go. I don't even think he realizes after he poops. Sometimes I change his soiled pull-up and he didn't even know he was poopy. If I try to sit him on the potty he cries that he doesn't have to go. Yesterday I asked him if he knows how it feels when he has to poop? Or if he can tell when he is going poopy? He said, "No, what does it feel like?" I was very surprised. I did my best to explain these sensations.
Sometimes I let him sit in poops because I know he will just be poopy again in 5 minutes. I am tired of ridiculing from big brother (14) and grandma saying "I can't believe that!"

I am hoping this will end soon.

by momof3boys, May 25, 2005 12:00AM

To: khart123, ddieterich, momofa10yrold, jdharrington

Hello all.  I've been away from this site for quite some time now.  I like to come back to it once in a while to see how everyone is doing with their children and their pooping in the potty issues. Sounds like some of us (those names I mentioned)are going through very similar things with our children.  As frustrating as it is for us...I do have to say that I feel a little bit of relief when I hear that others are experiencing the same problems that my husband and I are going through!

BEE2.....you mentioned your that poop falls from your sons pants at school and children pick it up....you and I have much in common.  We are always finding poop on the floor (in the house, outside, at friends houses). Yes, its like little marbles. This is extremely frustrating!

As I mentioned in previous posts we tried so many different things from rewards, punishments, calendars & stickers.  We are extremely frustrated and exhausted with this whole issue (our son is 5 1/2 now).  My husband and I have just gotten to the point where we don't make such a big deal about (most of the time) and make our son clean himself up the best he can even if he has to take a shower.

I firmly believe our children has some type of psychological issues going on and we are going to have to be very patient with them and somehow get them the proper help that they need.  I will be calling a pediatric psychologist today to get more advice.

I think we are all going to need each other for our own sanity!   THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR POSTS!

by 3boysunder5, Jun 01, 2005 12:00AM

I just wanted to share that I finally got my four year old to poop in the potty and not a diaper (he has been on Miralax for almost 2 years). I put the diaper in the toilet just over the water and left him to sit on the potty. This worked twice yesterday and I am keeping my fingers crossed. This is the first time he has ever gone on the potty. We couldn't even get him to sit on the toilet without a fit. I hope this is the answer. We took him to a specialist and everything medically was fine. I guess it was a control/fear issue. Maybe the security of the diaper will help someone else out there have some success as well.

by mommy04, Jun 02, 2005 12:00AM

To: 3boysunder5

How long did you use miralax before the pooping was consistant? My daughter has been on this for 3 weeks now and we haven't seen any pattern yet. Any sugggestions?

by KLBess, Jun 02, 2005 12:00AM

My husband got a call at work today from our 5 year old's kindergarten teacher. She told him that she discovered our son has been peeing and pooping on the floor in the bathroom. I did not believe it when he called me. When I sat down to talk to out child he admitted he has been doing so. When I asked him why, he stated, "I thought Mrs. S wouldn't catch me". First of all I could not believe what he was saying. He is a smart kid, and has never had problems in the bathroom. I told him that was not a reason why and he told me, "I wasn't thinking". Now he is so smart he gives you the answers he thinks you want to hear. So needless to say I still have no idea why he is doing this. I hope someone can help!

by 3boysunder5, Jun 03, 2005 12:00AM

To: mommy04

At first he fought off the miralax and we were not great about giving it to him everyday...he has to have it everyday in order to go once a day. We give him about 1/2 the dose prescribed to keep him going everyday. Like I said, it has been well over 1 1/2 years of miralax. I started giving him soy milk too because I read that constipation could be from an allergy to the protein in milk, not the lactose. My advice is to definitely keep up with the miralax. I wish I did this earlier.

by momof3boys, Jun 08, 2005 12:00AM

To: keith hart, ddieterich, momofa10yrold, jdwharringt

I spoke with a child psychologist recently and we discussed this issue of our children pooping in their underwear. My son is 5 1/2 and she suggested making the responsibility of "clean up" completely up to him (i.e. washing his own underwear, cleaning up in the bathroom after himself, picking up the poop off the floor and cleaning the floor, stripping the bedding and putting it in the wash when he poops in his bed and leaves it smelling). My son often poops in his pants before falling asleep, in the middle of the night or first thing in the morning while laying in bed. Therefore, the bedding stinks!!! I am tired of washing it over and over and over...I have told him he can no longer sleep with his blankets simply because I cannot keep washing them. He sometimes complains of being cold, but oh, well. We'll see if this helps.

Hope things are getting better with all of you and your children.!!!

by momof32boys1girl, Jun 09, 2005 12:00AM

I am also very glad to have found this website. Our son is going to be 4 years old in 2 months and will go pee fine but when it comes to poop...................
He was doing really good, going poopy on the potty, then all of a sudden he reverted back to pooping in his underwear. He held it in for 4 days then we gave him an suppository and he pooped the biggest poop! Then held it again for 3 days and we did the same thing. Our pediatrician prescribed him enlose(a laxitive). That was helping,but now he goes little bits 6 to 8 times a day and all in his underwear! He will sit on the potty fine,but it is always after the fact. He starts prek in August and he HAS to be poopy trained before school starts or he can't go. I hate to have that kind of pressure on him. We have tried everything that has been mentioned in this chat. Right now we are doing the; if he goes in his underwear we take a toy (that he loves) away and if he does go on the potty then he can pick which toy he wants back. It does effect him, but he is still pooping in his underwear. The nurse at the pediatricians office said he should be going at least once a day and that he may skip a day which is normal, so I don't know if the enlose is working or not. I know everyone is trying to figure this one out and I pray we all find a way to show our kids how. I have a friend who's son is 2 1/2 and goes poopy just fine on the potty and has been doing this since he turned 2. She said she did nothing fancy,just explained how it works and where it goes and he does it. Thanks for listening.

by aviva_b, Jun 25, 2005 12:00AM

I have to say, it's disheartening to have found this site... this is such a widespread problem that I'm sad to see it goes on for so long and with no SOLUTIONS!

My almost 4-year-old has been on Miralax since January, pee-trained perfectly, and now I'm in danger of having to find another preschool/daycare. I love where she is, but they just won't let her into the class for her age group because she poops in her underwear/pull-up. My husband and I are both employed full-time, and completely frustrated and there is pressure all around us now.

On Wednesday we went to a child psychiatrist who recommended that we leave her in a pull-up, take time off work to spend with her, and take the pressure off. Just have rewards if she DOES go, but no big deal if she doesn't. Also, give her more choices all around (we already do!). Well, from the looks of this board, nothing's going to change with this method, and I only have next week to figure something out.

Tonight my mother-in-law said that her sister's daughter had this issue. She solved it by having her spend a couple of days naked; no diaper, no undies. Has anyone tried this? I'm willing to go there... I have a feeling my daughter will not poop on the couch or the floor.. and we only are giving her enough Miralax to keep it soft, not liquidy.

Your thoughts??

by aviva_b, Jun 25, 2005 12:00AM

I have to say, it's disheartening to have found this site... this is such a widespread problem that I'm sad to see it goes on for so long and with no SOLUTIONS!

My almost 4-year-old has been on Miralax since January, pee-trained perfectly, and now I'm in danger of having to find another preschool/daycare. I love where she is, but they just won't let her into the class for her age group because she poops in her underwear/pull-up. My husband and I are both employed full-time, and completely frustrated and there is pressure all around us now.

On Wednesday we went to a child psychiatrist who recommended that we leave her in a pull-up, take time off work to spend with her, and take the pressure off. Just have rewards if she DOES go, but no big deal if she doesn't. Also, give her more choices all around (we already do!). Well, from the looks of this board, nothing's going to change with this method, and I only have next week to figure something out.

Tonight my mother-in-law said that her sister's daughter had this issue. She solved it by having her spend a couple of days naked; no diaper, no undies. Has anyone tried this? I'm willing to go there... I have a feeling my daughter will not poop on the couch or the floor.. and we only are giving her enough Miralax to keep it soft, not liquidy.

Your thoughts??

by aviva_b, Jun 25, 2005 12:00AM

I have to say, it's disheartening to have found this site... this is such a widespread problem that I'm sad to see it goes on for so long and with no SOLUTIONS!

My almost 4-year-old has been on Miralax since January, pee-trained perfectly, and now I'm in danger of having to find another preschool/daycare. I love where she is, but they just won't let her into the class for her age group because she poops in her underwear/pull-up. My husband and I are both employed full-time, and completely frustrated and there is pressure all around us now.

On Wednesday we went to a child psychiatrist who recommended that we leave her in a pull-up, take time off work to spend with her, and take the pressure off. Just have rewards if she DOES go, but no big deal if she doesn't. Also, give her more choices all around (we already do!). Well, from the looks of this board, nothing's going to change with this method, and I only have next week to figure something out.

Tonight my mother-in-law said that her sister's daughter had this issue. She solved it by having her spend a couple of days naked; no diaper, no undies. Has anyone tried this? I'm willing to go there... I have a feeling my daughter will not poop on the couch or the floor.. and we only are giving her enough Miralax to keep it soft, not liquidy.

Your thoughts??

by aviva_b, Jun 25, 2005 12:00AM

I have to say, it's disheartening to have found this site... this is such a widespread problem that I'm sad to see it goes on for so long and with no SOLUTIONS!

My almost 4-year-old has been on Miralax since January, pee-trained perfectly, and now I'm in danger of having to find another preschool/daycare. I love where she is, but they just won't let her into the class for her age group because she poops in her underwear/pull-up. My husband and I are both employed full-time, and completely frustrated and there is pressure all around us now.

On Wednesday we went to a child psychiatrist who recommended that we leave her in a pull-up, take time off work to spend with her, and take the pressure off. Just have rewards if she DOES go, but no big deal if she doesn't. Also, give her more choices all around (we already do!). Well, from the looks of this board, nothing's going to change with this method, and I only have next week to figure something out.

Tonight my mother-in-law said that her sister's daughter had this issue. She solved it by having her spend a couple of days naked; no diaper, no undies. Has anyone tried this? I'm willing to go there... I have a feeling my daughter will not poop on the couch or the floor.. and we only are giving her enough Miralax to keep it soft, not liquidy.

Your thoughts??

by aviva_b, Jun 27, 2005 12:00AM

I have to say, it's disheartening to have found this site... this is such a widespread problem that I'm sad to see it goes on for so long and with no SOLUTIONS!

My almost 4-year-old has been on Miralax since January, pee-trained perfectly, and now I'm in danger of having to find another preschool/daycare. I love where she is, but they just won't let her into the class for her age group because she poops in her underwear/pull-up. My husband and I are both employed full-time, and completely frustrated and there is pressure all around us now.

On Wednesday we went to a child psychiatrist who recommended that we leave her in a pull-up, take time off work to spend with her, and take the pressure off. Just have rewards if she DOES go, but no big deal if she doesn't. Also, give her more choices all around (we already do!). Well, from the looks of this board, nothing's going to change with this method, and I only have next week to figure something out.

Tonight my mother-in-law said that her sister's daughter had this issue. She solved it by having her spend a couple of days naked; no diaper, no undies. Has anyone tried this? I'm willing to go there... I have a feeling my daughter will not poop on the couch or the floor.. and we only are giving her enough Miralax to keep it soft, not liquidy.

Your thoughts??

by aviva_b, Jun 27, 2005 12:00AM

Whoops. This site was having issues when I was trying to post. I'm so sorry for posting 3x.

by stuy, Jun 28, 2005 12:00AM

I have the same problem as you all!!  My son is 4 years old and I am at my wits end as what do to.  We have seen a paed for the past 12 months, we have been in hospital with a naso-gastric tube for two days and I have tried rewards, punishiment and a calender on the fridge.

my son talks about going to the toilet and how he does it, flushes and washes his hands, but he just won't actually do it.  My doctor doesn't think he needs a psycological test.  I to have given up work to help him get thru this but I am running out of patience.  we recently moved to the country and now he has a great teacher who wants to help me with this problem instead of pushing my son aside.  we have started a new routine of putting him on the toilet morning, lunch and after school but for the past few days he has done poo's in his pants only 15 to 20 mins after this!

I have taken away his toys and put them on top of the fridge so he can see them there but can't have them.  After a day he had forgotten about this.  Recently I took him to the shops and let him look at toys etc, he choose a Batman Bedspread and Batman shoes.  I said he could have these when he goes and does poo's in the toilet but this has not worked either.  I am finding myself getting cross at him, as we know it is not a medical problem, but I know I shouldn't do this as all the books say not to.

Please help me anyone who has anything different.  I do like the idea of leaving them naked for a couple of days as we live in a warm climate, but this could prove difficult with school and my eldest son plays sport on the weekend, but I thnk I will give this one ago.  What a great website I never knew so many people were dealing with this problem.  now I know my son isn't an ailen. LOL.

by khart123, Jun 29, 2005 12:00AM

Good afternoon everyone,

I had no idea that this thread was still up on this website.  I was checking something online and found the thread again and was astonished to see that my question now had over 26 responses to.  Glad to hear that people feel they are not alone, and trust me when I tell you, we are not alone.  I am glad to report that my 5 ½ year old little boy has not had an accident in over 3 months now and I will share below exactly what a new doctor set out for us to do.  It worked like a charm.

First, one of the things that I had never heard was that there is a clinical name for this problem.  It is call Encompresis or Encopresis and if you do a search on the internet of that you will find great sites and better explanations of what the problem is from a medical standpoint.  It was nice to have a name to attach to the problem and was nice to see that there is research on this problem and suggested ways to get past the problem.  So now on to the good things that we have done to kick this problem to the waste side.

My wife and I meet with a Child Physiologist here in Charlotte who had dealt with this problem before and he meet with our son and outlined a very specific regiment for him and us to follow for three weeks.  If it did not work in three week then we needed to come back to him.

Important point to note:  Have the child make suggestions along the way for the process and have them help with the charts and other items because if they believe that they came up with the ideas and rewards then they are more apt to believe in the system.

1. First we created a large colorful chart that was divided into 6 sections.  We then created 6 large stars and added Velcro on the back of each and the opposite end in the middle of the six separate sections on the chart.  Our son helped us with the chart and cutting out the starts.
2. Sit with the child and establish 6 or seven rewards.  Now note that these rewards need to be good for the child but no really big.  Some examples from our house were: Sleeping in his sleeping bag in our room one night, getting to get a movie from blockbusters, getting to chose a dinner…you get the drift.  But note that for the next two or three weeks you will be giving a lot of these reward out so don’t make it large rewards or you will see the bank account shrink very quickly….
3. Now to the actual working part of the plan.

                     Star Chart
a. Every day there are two opportunity to get a star on the chart.  If they go the first half of the day with no accidents then they get to put up a star.  If they go the other half of a day without an accident they get another star.  So every three days they know they will get a reward if they have no accidents.  So if they have an accident in the morning no star but they have a good afternoon and evening they get a star.
b. If during this time they do some how do go to the bathroom then an immediate reward is given (have these on hand and hidden from the child).  For example we went to target and home depot and got a little flash light, some play-do and a few other little one dollar, two dollar kind of things.  We hid them and when we had success we gave one of those to him.  Also note that going to the bathroom does not reset the stars or change them in any way.  The stars are linked to ½ days times as we noted below.
c. Make this as fun as you can and when they fill up the six stars then they get to chose a reward from the original  list I talked about earlier.  Have the kids take the stars off the chart and start over again after it is filled up.
d. Last thing about the chart is that when the child has an accident the stars do not come down.  The chart only goes up so there is no punishment in regards to the stars for accidents.
e. Also this is not related to the star chart but you have to make your child sit on the toilet for 5 -10 minutes after every meal.  We found that we let him finish his meal and about 10 minutes after that we put him on the potty and we had success.

               Accidents and Punishments

a. If the child has an accident they have to go and clean the underwear in the sink right at that moment.  Everything in the house from their standpoint stops until the underwear gets cleaned out.  Use your discretion on what is considered clean but you get the idea.
b. After the underwear is clean the child must take a bath (we gave short ones with no play time in the bath).  Again this needs to happen immediately after the underwear is clean.
c. After the bath they get out and if they can dress themselves in underwear and everything in their life continue on.

                  Few Items to note:
1. There are no other types of punishments for having accidents while you are working on this process.  To many punishments was confusing our child so if they had the accidents they had to follow the two steps but we showed him that we were not taking any of the stars away for the work and good things he had accomplished all ready.
2. The doctor was very specific about this and pre-warned us that regardless of the time and situation, the child’s activities must stop right then and they have to go and clean their underwear.  Not sure what would happen if the accident happens in a store or the such.  We never had that happen while we were on this program.  But we had that happen a lot before this.
3. Do not under any circumstances get angry or raise your voice at the child while they are screaming at you because they don’t want to clean their underwear or take a bath.  Just be stern and make sure that they understand they do not get to eat, play watch tv or go to sleep until they have completed to two steps.  Just act like it is part of their life now and that they have to do it…no choice.
4. This was the hardest item for us because our child sat with no cloths on for about an hour at a time for a week but we stuck to our guns and he eventually cleaned it and took the bath every time.  Also a note that he had an accident one morning before school and I had to take him to school late and I was late for work because he had to follow the steps required.

                   Last Item to Note:

Encopresis is the technical name of this problem.  The real problem is that (here is the gross part) has a problem with the body creating a “plug” in their system that makes it very hard for them to go to the bathroom on a regular basis.  If your child has not gone to the bathroom in over two days there is a good chance that the “plug” has been created and is growing and thus the problem grows also.  Here was the final statement made by the doctor:

If you child has not gone to the bathroom or had an accident in two days you need to force the situation.  By that I mean using an immediate laxative of some sort.  Use something that will have results in a few minutes to force the “plug” to come out.

For us this was about the worst thing that has ever happened to us.  Our child would go two or more days and my wife and I uses an enema and it was a fiasco but the bottom line is he went to the bathroom.  The hope is that a child will begin to get their body use to going to the bathroom every two days or so.  We had to use this approach 2 times before the problem stopped.  Also we give him some Merilax every day (small amount) in his juice and it has helped keep him regular.

After we started this program within about a week and a half of accidents our son for the first time went poopy on the potty.  He was excited and so were we.  During the next few weeks we had one or two accidents but we also got a lot more success then failure.  About a month after we started this my son called me into the bathroom and said look dad I went on my own.  And sure enough he did.  From that day on we have not had any accidents and he even goes in public places if he feels the urge.

I can not promise everyone that this will work but I thank God every day because our life at home and in public has gotten so much better.  I know this is a long note but if you have any further question please feel free to drop me a note at ***@**** and I will get back to you.  I do not read this message board much but after finding it again I thought I should post how we kicked the poppy habit.

Keith

by khart123, Jun 29, 2005 12:00AM

One other thing.  After reading thru all of the other statements above it seems that everyone has questions about the Merilax and how much to use and how long it will take.  What the doctor told us was that with Encopresis the colon because very large and the child no longer has sensations when they have to go to the bathroom and when they don’t.  When the colon gets full and tells us that it is time to go to the bathroom it grows.  But with a child that has Encopresis the colon is always large and that makes it the sensation of needing to go to the bathroom no working for the child.

We always thought that he knows when he has to go he just does not want to go, or he is to lazy to make it to the bathroom.  The reality is that when the body can not hold it any longer it is forced out of the body and the “plug” that I talked about earlier is pushed out and the child must go right then.  The doctor told us that many times the event is almost instant and the child has no time to react and they get no warning that they are about to go.  So if you happen to luck up and have them sitting on the potty for 20 minutes and that event happens, then you have success but in reality the problem is still there.

Once a child is forced to go to the bathroom every two days or so what happens, again according to the doctor, is that the colon and the sensory organs around it begin to get back to regular shape.  When the child starts going to the bathroom every two days or so they begin to get that sensation back and understand what it means.  Again because their colon is so deadened by the current size and actions they can not feel they need to go.

After about 3 weeks of going every other day he started to understand what the feeling was.  We would put him on the potty every day about 10 minutes after dinner.  The first few times of success it would take about 5-8 minutes before it would happen and again I could be in the bathroom talking to him and then all of the sudden he would get quiet and we would have success.  For the first few weeks he could not tell he was going to go until he went.  As time went on he began to identify the sensation and he could make it to the bathroom when he felt he needed to go.

I know I have been writing lots here and sorry for the long winded but I want people to have success and since I have had success I want to share it with everyone.  One last item.

Before we were going on a regular basis we would sit our son on the toilet after meals and let him play his Leapster.  This way he was not board and going to the potty was not a boring and hard experience.  He had something to do.  If we traveled over the weekend that Leapster and extra batteries went with us.  I think that it helped make the transition easier for him.

So the bottom line is until you get rid of the “plug” problem the Merilax might not work because the real problem is still there.

Thanks,
Keith

by susybaby, Jul 02, 2005 12:00AM

It was comforting to find this site after just typing into google. "my 4 year old won't poop in the potty" and your comments appeared. just to mention I have a 7 year old daughter who potty trained completely at 2 1/2 even at night and has had relatively no accidents since. I didn't do anything different with my son and he has just potty trained pee. He will be 4 on July 31st and just will not go poop in the potty. We have done reward charts with stickers, we have taken away priveledges, and like you said he just accepts it and goes onto the next thing. I have never made him clean his underware but I have actually let him smell the stinky mess. He gets upset when it causes a rash and we explain to him that if he would go on the potty he wouldn't get a rash. Then he promises next time he will do it on the potty and of course NOT!!!! He's very bright and very active and very head strong . I know he knows what he's supose to do but he just won't do it. I have him in a preschool that will still clean him up but was unable to send him to my daughers's private parochial school because he must be trained. My husband and I are are just so frustrated. WE have lost control in this matter and I'm sure he knows it.

If any of you have had this problem, which I know you have. Can you tell me at what age this finally resolved?

by Zick, May 29, 2008 11:58AM

A related discussion, encropesis pooping in pants was started.

by JadziaDax, Aug 08, 2009 11:16PM

A related discussion, My daugher refuses to pooh was started.



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