4 year old verbally abusive

[WorriedParents]

Our 4 year old son has recently started saying terrible things to us when he is very angry.  We've always encouraged him to use his words to talk it out instead of hitting, throwing, etc.  He does well at school and isn't always an angry child.  He hasn't gone through anything traumatic, like divorce or a death in the family.  He is very active to the point where I think he might be Hyper-Active.  He can't sit still at all.  Not even through a TV show, movie, or a book.  He is always moving, rocking, pulling on his feet, hands, etc.  When he doesn't get his way he makes faces, grunts, pouts and is completly defiant.  I know most of that is normal, but he is now saying "You're bad to me", "I don't love you", and just the other night said (when mad that he had to go to bed) "When I grow up, I'm going to kill you".  How do we react to something like that?  Do we react?  Is this normal?  I know how kids sometimes can say they hate their parents, but he's only 4 and we've never said anything like that to him.  I doubt he even understands what killing is.  Please help with how we should handle this.  I would hate to think of him saying that to a teacher or other family member.

[Kevin Kennedy, Ph.D.]

It's best to react with equanimity to such statements. There's no point in addressing it at the time, since he is no state to communicate with you in a rational way. At a time of calm, you can talk with him about appropriate verbal expressions of anger and that making threats (and I agree with you he likely does not appreciate the meaning of what he is saying) is not a permissible way of expressing his anger. It's not at all unusual for children to say some pretty hateful things at times when they are angry. It's important not to get drawn into responses to such statements.

[jjam]

By any chance, does your son take asthma medication?

[WorriedParents]

No he doesn't take any medication.  Thanks for the response - it really puts me and my husnad at ease.  It's not an easy thing to hear.  We just want to make sure it's not abnormal.  I still wonder about the hyperactivity and the constant rocking, pulling and moving????  Thanks again.  Please feel free to comment.

[tomel]

Mabye it his diet. Has he ever been tested for allergies? Gluten, Dairy mabye.

[just_plain_fae]

Has he always exhibited the rocking behavior?  Or things like flapping his hands or arms, picking at his fingers, biting his nails way down, pulling his own hair, or other continued, repetitive movements?  These are self-stimulatory behaviors that may be indicative of autism.  Try to make mental notes about when he displays these behaviors (rocking and verbal outbursts).  Is there a pattern?  Is it when he's frustrated, hungry, bored, etc?  Just before bedtime, or only when he's getting ready for school?  These would be good things to share with your doctor to help him identify the cause of your child's behaviors, and from there, how to help him respond more appropriately.

[tomel]

I highly doubt he is Autistic because of the things he says. "I dont love you" or "I  hate you" I dont think an autistic child HIS AGE neccesarily understands those types of feelings or uses those types of feelings in that context, unless it is something he memorized from someone else and is just parroting it, but doesnt sound like that. Although I'm sure HFA use this type of langauge, but not at age 4. Although I could be wrong, but I doubt he is Austistic.

[cecil7mom]

I agree your son is too verbal to be autistic. He processes language and is able to articulate well. I think you should have him evaluated by an occupational therapist who specializes in sensory dysfunction disorder. My son is four and has been diagnosed with sensory issues and I have done a lot of research. Your son seems to be at the other side of the spectrum that mine is. Usually sensory kids are either very active or very sluggish. Neurologically they have a "traffic jam" of the brain and have trouble interpreting and modulating their sonsory input.  When they feel overloaded they begin to act out, can be verbally aggressive and out of control. This increases their stress level and at that point their incapable of processing any extra sensory input. Look on the internet for information. I would be glad to suggest some books. First, get him evaluated--initial screenings are usually free. If you don't get him evaluated and he has issues, school can become a REAL struggle for him and you!  Good luck!!!

[mum2bbrose]

My 4 year old daughter does the same thing! I really notice her acting up the most when she is bored,she seems to need 1 on 1 attention and constant stimulation in activites all the time.As soon as your busy doing other things she acts up. Spankings do not work,time out's don't work unless your ready to sit on her to keep her there.She does not care about conseqences at all when in this state. She also rocks in her rocking chair for an hour sometimes watching tv and thats her own way of winding down. As a baby I had to swing her in my arms rapidly to calm her.And even now when I do that her eye's glaze over and she calms down.It's so weird! She is perfect at school and at other people's house. I have been told she has the best manners in her Head Start class!Boy would they be surprized if they seen her at home!

[lucylocket2]

Where does he hear these things to repeat them? My daughter is 10 and started talking like that. the worst thing you can do is even let them know it bothers you. son't show him that it bothers you. he is trying to push your buttons to see how far he can get. See if you can get him to sit down in a certain sopt EVERYTIME and tell him when he has calmed down you all will takl about it and not untill then. Firmly!  Wait 5 min. ask him if he is ready. if he is still bad wait 5 more, go back. keep it up till he will talk to you nice. let him know you mean business. don't use more words that u have to. he want's that . he wants to make you mad. don't give him what he wants. Good luck

[D99G03]

I agree with what you are trying to say here, but the word "bad' to describe a child, just makes my hair stand on end!  How about fresh or naughty??!!  It's just not as negative.  Sorry, no offense intended ... I just had to say this "out loud" ...

[mamabear72]

I'm curious if you've ever heard of a Nonverbal Learning Disability (NLD). From what you've described, several of the behaviors/symptoms fit. My son is 9 and NLD.  NLD children are extremly inteligent, bright, verbal children. My son can hold a conversation with any adult and keep up quite fine. However when it comes to daily behavior it's meltdown city. He also is very verbaly abusive, especiall to his little sister. Part of NLD is Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) which ais the reson for the way he deals with life. I hope you don't think I'm trying to diagnose anyone, it's just that your post described my son! There are wonderful websites on NLD and SID if your interested in reading about them. I don't know if we're allowed to post websites or our email addy here so I would suggest google for the sites and my email addy is my screen names here @charter.net

Sincerely,
Kristen

[mamabear72]

This was sent directly to my email...I'm passing it along for Ms. Austin...

I tried setting up a password on Child Behavior Health Forum  and couldn't get it to work and noticed your post.  Regarding 4 year old verbally abusive I wanted to tell her (WorriedParents) that there is a little-known type of ADD that presents with hyperactivity and aggression- actually there are two: Ring-of-fire ADD and Temporal Lobe ADD.  They are absolutely treatable and some say healable but almost no Doctors know about it yet.  Treatment is SPECIFIC to type and should not treat for ADD in general til you take the tests.  There is a book called HEALING ADD by Dr Amen with a test to see if you have any of the 6 types and ways of treating/healing them. Dr Amen is the foremost expert on ADD and has clinics around the country if she needs help.  He is a psychiatrist and mostly only psychiatrists know about the book.  Please post this information for me and for her.  It could save that boy and his family from alot of pain.

I'm sorry about your son going thru so many challenges but I'm so glad you know what it is and are able to address it. I too am a Mamabear and I know what those Babybears mean to us!

thanks, I hope you'll pass this along.  i was afraid I would forget if I didn't do something right away.

Ms Austin

[ehoberg]

too much t.v. especially cartoons.

too much time with way older kids.

heard it somewhere--at home or else where.

[insomniacmommy]

I see a lot of these characteristics in my 3-1/2 yr f.son, I have had him since he was 2 mths and will be adopting soon. Thanks to all for sharing with mamabear-except for ehoberg. What are you some self proclaimed pop phychologist? Help or stay out of cyber space, I think you are doing more harm than good!

[vernielou12]

I have a nephewwho is like this,and he is 6. My husband and I get stuck watching him alot and feel that we are pretty good to him.Take him to do fun things instead of making him sit home and do nothing/watch tv.
Well,if my husband so much as tells him,"No" then my nephew responds with,"I hate you" Know what worked? My husband said,"You hate me? Ok,then we get back to our house you can it in a chair and stare at the wall" He also said,"you dont EVER talk to me that way,you understand!"
And the nephew has never said those things again! The child needs to know what he saying is wrong and hurtful. Perhaps your husband should be the one to tell him in a ALPHA male kinda way. Every now and then it seems kids just need to be reminded who is boss.

[xmsrlong]

I do think you are correct.  The "alpha male kinda of way" is an often overlooked and in my mind purely legitimate way to deal with this issue with a boy.  It may not work so well on a 4 year old as it would on a 6 year old (6 year olds start to identify themselves as males more than 4 year olds).