4.5 y doesnt "want to make people happy" potty training issues

[JPDPJPHP]

Hi,

Our almost 5yr old son from a very early age (18months)  would get very emotional if we praised him too much, especially around any potty training or doing things he doesnt want to do.

We heard from him over the years "dont be happy with me, just be normal" around things he was unhappy doing. For instance, at 3, we wanted him to make a hand print in clay for a mothersday project at a local pottery store, he was very nervous but we held his hands in the clay, the woman told him "good job" at which point triggered him to get emotional and cry out "dont say good job, just be normal".  Another time, at his new school, he finally (after months of refusing) gave his teacher a hug, she said  "awww...i just got a hug from John! (not his name)" and he broke down and cried out for his mommy and freaked his teacher out.

The reason we are writing today, is that we are really struggling with his potty training at school.  He is fine during the weekends and when we are at restaurants and other people's homes. But at school it is another story, he tells the teachers that he is "nervous" and that he "doesnt want them to be happy."  He is not shy at school however, in the past he has changed his own pull ups in the bathroom at school, and has been quite open about being naked.  he tries to hold it, and will wet his underwear instead of actually using the potty there.  When we drop him off and pick him up, he will go to the school bathroom (but not the one in the class) with us.  My wife has even gone to the school before nap time so he can relieve himself.  We have tried rewards, ignoring it, and pressure, but at this point and at his age and maturity level we are afraid that we could harm him if we push him to hard.

Any ideas?  He is outgoing, extremely bright (according to the teachers) and loves to make people laugh otherwise.

Thanks

[JPDPJPHP]

Thanks, sounds like good advice, much better than "Goto the potty at school or no Disney World." :)  Just kidding. We haven't done that, it wouldn't work anyway.

[SL345]

I wouldn't say that the teachers don't care or that you don't care - it's not true and you do care. That perpetuates the power struggle part of this. He sounds like he's too smart for that. Be honest with him, or better yet, stay away from the who cares part of it. I would suggest posing it more as a dilemma for him to think about and to recognize, as you suggest, that in the end there are certain things that really are his decision. Howe about, "We know how you feel about going to the ___ bathroom. We understand you have a lot of feelings about it and you want the adults to respect your wishes.  We know that you are doing a great job using the bathroom in so many other places. That tells us that you can do a great job when you want to. But, this is a time where you really want to do it your way and we are trying to understand this better. All we're asking is that you think about this. Is that a deal?" He may say no, in which case you will need to back off and come back to it at a later date. At some point, you may be able to say to him that a part of him wants to do a good job and wants to do things that make him feel proud of himself and a part of him doesn't want anyone pressuring him or expecting him to do things a certain way. Explain to him that if you can understand that better if will help prevent problems. If he's doing well in so many areas of his life, I would suggest just working with him on it. Seek out professional consultation for yourself if you need support and direction.

[JPDPJPHP]

Thanks for the response... its brilliant you picked up on the the whole controlling thing, I left that out of my post, but he is bossy (he has a younger brother by 1.5years) and pretty much needs to run the show.  Is this behavior we can try to help steer him away from?  I guess that is another post for another day. :)

So, we have told him that he can go however he wants at school, and that the teachers really dont care one way or another, that it is his body, and he will be more comfortable.  He pretty much doesnt buy that.  But I will bring up that we "cant make him do things he doesnt want to do" (this is a theme with him)

Do you think we should seek professional help, and at what point should we pull that trigger?  The school has been great, I think they are concerned, but dont want to come out and tell us to get professional help, they dance around that question, which tells us it might be time.  

[SL345]

He sounds like a kid who wants and needs control. He may feel pressured by the "praise." Give him control around toileting. In the end, it is his body and he will have the last word. He should do it because he will feel good about himself for doing it - not to please others. Try to talk to him in logical ways to encourage and persuade him to consider trying things a "different way." He knows what it's like to do it "his way." If he won't consider trying it another way, then try to make modifications where possible and sensible. When not possible, explain why you can't abide by his preference. Ask him why he thinks he needs to be the boss so much when it comes to toileting at school when he does it differently so many other places. Chances are there is some kind of insecurity or him being picky. I know people who as adults won't use certain bathrooms. Mostly, keep talking with him and trying to be logical getting him to "think" about other ways of operating. How does that sound?