6 year delightful at school but terror at home-swears, threatens § won't listen

[cagathoc]

My son, who is "delightful" according to his teachers at school and church is a terror at home.  Every simple request is met with noncompliance or lies.  Routine requests like: brushing teeth, picking up, getting dressed and eating are ignored. When I get angry and threaten to punish him, he yells back at me threatening to spank me back and "talk mean" back.  He says whatever he comes to his mind with no regard for truth.  He will call black white and get upset and frustrated when you don't accept his statements.

He is generally a very loving, intelligent and witty child.  He can tell fascinating stories and gets along well with his sister and friends.  I love him like crazy.

But I am at my wits end about how to get him to act more respectfully towards me.  I seem to be the ony one he acts like this with.  He is afraid of embarassement at school and always behaves well.  They even put him in a first/second grade split class (he is a first grader) because he is so well behaved and motivated at school.

I asked him why he gives me such a hard time and he answered "because I just have to, Mom."

help...

[Kevin Kennedy, Ph.D.]

The tone of your note indicates that you need to work on handling his behavior with more equanimity. There's no need to become exasperated, angry, etc. Simply be firm and show resolve, and absolutely do not issue directions more than two times. If your son does not do as he is told after the second time, place him in time out for approximately 10 minutes. Use this form if you need to repeat the direction after one time: "Unless you ...., you will go to time out." Take a look at Lynn Clark's book SOS:Help for Parents - it is a iseful manual re: managing childhood behavior.

[cagathoc]

I feel that I should also say that although I threaten, I have only spanked him a handful of times.  Sometimes I send him to his room for a time out.  

I feel like we should have understanding and mutual repsect.  I treat him well, he should treat me well.  If he doesn't brush his teeth, he's the one who gets cavities not me.  He doesn't respond to arguments like this...  

My 8 year old daughter doesn't require any kind of formal discipline.  She wants to please and "do the right thing".  I think I got spoiled with her.

I am kind of a "hippie parent" who just wants everyone to be responsible because it's the right thing without threats and punishments.  But I keep seeing my son acting the way he does now and worse when he's 16 and I knew I have to do something more.

[Kevin Kennedy, Ph.D.]

It's important to recognize that the way you wish this would work out really isn't a good match for your son. He requires some sound behavior management and structure - rational discussion isn't getting you what you want. In some instances, the old adage that "Actions speak louder than words" is very apt.

[CCB]

cagathoc, you can modify your sons behavior without threats and punishment.  As a teacher I find "response cost" techniques to work better than "time out" procedures.  
Response cost: withdrawl of privilages or other things he might like to do contingent upon noncompliance or the occurence of a problematic behavior.  For example, you could tell him "you will not get ___ if you don't brush your teath..its as simple as that" and fill in the blank with something that he likes.  This teaches him that he has ultimate control over the consequences of his behavior.  This procedure can get incredibly complicated with the use of conditioned reinforcers like play money that just like real money can be exchanged for things he likes but if he wants something, just like we all do, he will "work" for it by performing particular behaviors that you know are necessary (brushing teath, getting dressed, etc)-but remember the reinforcer (whatever you fill in the blank with) has to be something that is fairly important to him.   There are several other techniques that can be used that dont involve punnishment (time out and response cost are actually punishment)..write back if you are interested.  I only mentioned the one that has been most helpful for me.  Hope this helps!  :)

[jeanc]

Is this advice working for you?  It sounds just like my son.  I know he is a good boy, but I think he has a problem managing his temper.  Any help would be appreciated.

[vanillabean]

my daughter is 5 years old.  She is very intelligent.  She can actually sit down and have a conversation with an adult, but she is so hyper and misbehaved.  I have tried time out, spanking, and even threatening to take away her toys, but nothing works. When in time out she will scream, kick, bite herself, etc.  The doctor said to ingnore her for as long as the tantrum lasts, but they can last for several hours.  When I try spanking her, she will but her butt in the air and say "Smack me again, it doesn't hurt!"  And when I take her toys away, she will actually help me pack them up and Says "I didn't want them anyway"  I've put them up for weeks and she never askes for them.  Then again she can be the most perfect angel.  She also has a habit of putting things in her mouth.  She will put chew on anything.  I just had a new baby and she just recently started peeing in the baby diapers and hides them.  She loves to lie and make up stories and people that don't know us actually believe them.  She is not shy at all and she has even hit strangers before and told them they were ugly.

[JRMom]

My 5 year old son sounds just like all the other children. I basically have tried all the different ideas that you all have tried. Has this worked for anyone? I think I may have to resort to counseling. Has anyone tried that route?

[cisco]

Same here, I have a 7 year old, soon to be 8 and he has had difficulties since before he was 5.  It just gets worse.  I have tried all methods posted above and nothing works.  It may work for that one time, but not subsequent times.  Would love to hear responses from parents that have children like this and have found some solid effective behavior management.

[kml]

As I read all of your comments, I begin to feel somewhat defeated.  Our son exhibits many of the same behaviors that you are all describing--soiling as well as anger issues.  We have also tried many of the suggestions that have been offered by parents, teachers, and professionals.  And, just like most all of you have said, "But he can be the most wonderfully, warm, charming and intelligent child".  We started counselling with a child psychiatrist last Fall.  I  have to say, we are seeing some progress and it also helps to have an adult tell you that you are trying your best and that there will be a pay off.  Our son is 5 1/2 and very big and strong for his age.  When he rages, it's terrifying.  And he's not shy.  This has happened at family gatherings, in stores, etc.  He will be starting kindergarten this coming Fall and I am scared to death that we will still not have a handle on all of this by then.  As for those well intentioned that say, you have given him too much power and authority, please know this, that is not always the case.  I believe there are children who have much more difficulty dealing with emotions and appropriate responses.  As for our child, we have been told that he is highly intelligent and well beyond his years in many ways; however, that may be also part of his frustration--he knows a lot in some areas, but has not matured emotionally enough to get a handle on his emotions and outbreaks.  At least today I was able to report that he is beginning to model some of the appropriate responses and bathroom habits.  We have been assured that he will have "slips" from time to time, but that is part of the process as well.  If you are truly frustrated and feeling like you have tried everything you can think of or have had suggested to you, please consider a specialist.  It may be what your child needs as well as what your sanity needs.  Good luck.

[loving mother of 5 yearold]

When i first started reading this it was just like talking about my son.I started crying.I love him so much and I'v tried talking to him about the way he acts,He says he will be good and never is.I cannot take him into public places anymore because of the way he acts.he screams at me or anyone,he doen't care.He hits me and when he is told to do something he screams at me.he tells me he hates me or anyone who trys to talk to him.My family won't go anywhere with us because of him,and he now sometimes pulls his hair and bites himself.I took him to see a counsler once and she said he just need anger classes.I think it's morre than that.so I feel for all of you and I say with all the best hang in there.

[jird15]

A related discussion, Uncontrolled 8 yr old was started.