I know this is a very old post and I hope your son has been helped but I went through this with both of my sons but none of my daughters. An older teacher told me after my son kept doing all kinds of junk in her class that even though he was 6, I should keep him home until he was older MATURITY WISE. She had taught for over 35 years and knew what she was talking about. I home schooled him and his brother when he showed the same behavior at school for two years. They both went into third grade at the top of their classes--home schooled I didn't worry about a grade level and just filled their brains to the level THEY CHOSE--and neither had any behavior problems after that. They just weren't ready to sit in a desk hours a day and follow a strict routine. I called out spelling words to one son hanging upside down from our gym set. He won every spelling bee he ever competed in. They both are wonderful young men now and have the most fond memories of the time I (and their dad on weekends) spent alone with them.
Hello CookieK and currently worried moms,
I hope my story, though longish, will also bring some hope and reassurance: I started watching this conversation a year ago when I was in exactly the same situation. I won't spend a lot of time describing it, my son's behavior in first grade mirrored hers, and adding to it, my normally very happy go lucky child starting having rages at home. It was a year of hell, I sought help all the way up the chain and received nothing but threats and the advice that something was wrong with my child. I tried local private schools with no luck, they were either full or wouldn't accept him. Finally at the end of first grade I knew something had to give. I accepted a new job in a new town. I researched and found they had a small local school with a very good reputation. Within a couple of weeks at that new school I received a phone call that I should come in for a conference. My gut wrenched, I felt dizzy, I though "this can't be starting all over again". When I walked into the meeting, the first words out of theirs mouths were "how can we help you?" I literally broke down crying. It was the first time in a year I had heard those words. Flash forward 6 months later, my son's behavior has improved 99.9%. What did they do? At first nothing. Once I told them of my son's horrible first year in school, they decided the best course of action was simply to not make a big deal out of his bad behaviors, but to continually reassure him that he belonged in that school, that they wanted to have him there, and that he was part of the team. It worked. Without threats or harsh discipline, medicine or a diagnosis, my son stopped just walking out of the classroom when he was upset or bored. He stopped standing up in class and wandering. He stopped humming loudly, he stopped trying to hit other students with his lunch bag. It took kindness, understanding, and a little time to mature. I know not everyone has that option but before you take any extreme measures, like a diagnosis, I highly recommend at least trying to change teachers or environments. If you have any questions let me know I can share more details of our journey. Just wanted other worried moms to know, there are more happy endings out there. thanks CookieK too, your posts kept me sane throughout that horrible year.
Hello Cookiek,
You sharing is just AMAZING!! why?? because mom’s like me does not or will never give up faith in our kids.
I am going through the same thing, here in Canada children starts the so called “full day kindergarten” when children turn 4 in the year. So my child started when he was 3 YEARS OLD!!... can you imagine the expectations????? things have not been easy... all the peers are one year ahead and teacher are just complaining!! and complaining!!... SOMETHING IS WORNG WITH YOUR CHILD, not listening, no following rules, etc. when at home he really is not doing what the teacher are saying.... SOME TEACHER NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THE WORD “FLEXIBLE” and specially NOT ALL preschoolers develop at the same rate.... plain and simple!... I am not saying for some children it may benefit start kindergarten younger, but not ALL. putting all children in a box of expectation is just simple WRONG.
My is 5 years old, and I am handing in there... I believe in him and of course I discipline him, we have also structured our home as for him to understand each activity has its time (beginning, ending) and he behaves sometimes bad in school but at home we do not have issues.... so THANK YOU FOR SHARING, as a mom I thank you for sharing your story and be an example for other moms who are dealing with this kind of behaviour!
I'm sorry, but if you read my responses you will see that I DO raise him like that! I said myself and my husband do NOT tolerate bad behaviour, that we were stern with any naughtyness when he was tiny so we DO NOT get any misbehaviour at home. I can count the numebr of times he has acted out at us on one hand and it only takes a no from us to stop the behaviour immediatly. HIs problems do to lay at home so I am not asking for advice on what to do at home.
I am not victamising my child. I used the example of the old batte axe to reiterate the problem he seems to have with authority, that its like a red rag to a bull with him.
My sons behaviour at school had made me feel sucidal, i am not vicamising nor sticking up for him.I know he has the problem not the teachers. i came here to get advice on the SCHOOL situation.
PLease read my responsed before you give me advice on what to do 'the next time he talks back'. If you had you would have read that he does not talk back to me or my husband. His problems are with school and a learning enviroment. i cannot control how the teachers deal with him, they will not listen to the parent.
It all kicks off when he is told what to do. He just does not like to be told what to do by teachers. Then they get frustrated with him, treat him differently, which makes him feel different to the other kids and makes him lash out as he get angry that hes been made to feel different. Then the other kids repeat negative things their parents have said about him being 'bad' which makes him angrier still.
Also, it seems when a teacher gets frustrated and takes it out on him by exerting thier authority over him, it just winds him up more. Then, the teachers blow every tiny thing he does out of proportion as they see him as a problem child, and then they begin to take it out on us that our child is causing them problems. Thats when they start accusing us of lying about his wonderful behviour at home (and other activites we do with large groups of kids outside of school).
At home we do not run on his scedule, we run on ours especially now we are homeschooling, so its not that. We also travel the world with him, he has been in so many countries this year alone, from Africa to Australia to Iceland, immersed in different cultures and structures, socialising with so many different children/adults. Not a hint of a problem. What i am getting at with that is that enviroment/transitions doesnt bother him. Hes happy as larry wherever in the world he is.
We have sent him to state, private and even an 'alternative' school.
The problems occur when he is told what to do by somebody in authority. I also have this problem (show me someone who truly doesnt!), I did as a child to, but i kept it inside, kept my mouth shut and towed the line. He does not seem to have that filter.
Also, he is very capable at learning, he just does not want to. Its so infuruiating, as he is so bright.
When does he become aressive? Do noises usually bother him? Is it about transitions?
How many "scheduling" he has at home - my son started to exibit problematic behaviours in pre-school, once expectations of compliance are higher....he has compliance problems.
Could it be that at home he can do whatever he wants to and he wants to (I mean appropriate activities), while at school he is expected to follow a routine and participate in groups?
Have his evaluated with child development specialist - they do testing with fast switching between activities in schoo-like environment.
My son has problem participating in large groups and in noisy environment (when noises are made by people/kids, not equipment/cars, etc....)
Something at school is defenitely bothering him
Good luck
sorry...my post was quite long and i dont think the last part showed, so here it is again.....
He has no learning difficilties. No autism or any other disorders, we have asked his doctors who can never understand what the schools are talking about as all they see is a lovely well behaved boy - as we do at home. the only bad behaviour we see at home is his rudness to his tutor. Hes a right boy who is learning (wothme) fast. We have no troubles with tantrums, bedtimes, food etc.
Why is he so awful at school or with tutors but fine for me? I could understand if there was a learning difficuly but its not. And its been four different schools, not just an isolated incident. My husband and I are at our wits end, we need him to go back to school at some point.
Teachers always thin we are lying when we tell them hes well behaved at home. HOw can we solve his behaviour when it happens outse the home?
Fantastic!! Thanks for keeping in touch.
I'm so glad you've moved him to a new school, MaggieMay! What a success.
He sounds like a delightful little boy.
Be prepared, in the future, to see this kind of attitude toward appropriate child behavior in public schools. There are some teachers who really want kids to sit still in their desks like little zombies.
And now that you know, and you've experienced this, you will know he's right on track and doing fine. Appropriate childlike behavior.
Kids who move around a lot turn into adults who move around a lot too - both literally and figuratively - which is a great thing.
I thought I would add a follow up, because I was so moved and heartened by Cookiek's follow up. On the recommendation of the school, we ended up taking our son to a variety of specialists to find a "diagnosis" for his difficulties. I was extremely upset and anxious about all this, especially because my son's behavior at home was really pretty good - but you know how it is when someone (let alone a trusted child care provider!) is telling you "something is wrong" with your kid.
In any event, none of the specialists found anything even remotely wrong with my son. The last, a behavioral therapist, said that everything my son was doing in school was utterly age-appropriate, and some might be the result of him really not liking it very much there. On her advice, we pulled him from the school before Christmas.
He's now been in his new school for over two months, and is getting awards for good behavior! It's a much better fit for him, and his teachers love him and even call him a "model student" (at 4!). I am angry at the other school for so thoroughly pathologizing my son's (apparently very normal) behavior, but grateful we got good advice and we've found a better home-away-from-home for him.
Thank you RockRose and Sandman2 for your support! And thank you Cookiek again for posting. Here's to better days.
Thanks, Rock Rose. I appreciate your input. I'm definitely going to start looking other options.
I agree with Sandman.
This is a 3 year old who doesn't nap - placing him on a mat for an hour and making him be quiet would be very frustrating for him.
I agree that you might want to look into another daycare with more activity. If he's tossing toys in the room, and not actually throwing them AT someone it's hard to think they would send him home for that. When my kids were that age we had stuff they COULD throw in areas they could throw them.
He really doesn't sound all that off-track - best wishes.
Thank you so much for your reply- it does help a lot. I do NOT want to be one of those parents who is in denial about her child's behavior (I teach college and have seen what those kids grow up to be!), but in this case, I am just not seeing anything other than a strong-willed, intelligent kid who needs more outlets than he's getting.
I will absolutely order the book (my son tends to like and respond to a "rules" approach at home), and look into other care situations for him.
It really does sound like the problem is more the school, then your child.
I would bet that if he could go out after lunch and run around like all children do in elementary school after lunch, he would be a very different child.
Kind of makes me wonder if this school does much in the way of physical activity with their students. Is he one of the older kids there? If not maybe the school could try letting him play with the older kids after lunch (if they even do that). The school needs to try timeouts with him instead of calling you. As you have said, all they are doing is rewarding him for his behavior.
The clinical rule for something like ADHD is that it has to appear in two places (typically home and school). If this is what the psyc would be looking for, sounds like you are wasting his time.
You could try buying, "Know and follow Rules" - http://www.amazon.com/Follow-Rules-Cheri-Meiners-M-Ed/dp/1575421305/ref=pd_sim_b_4#
It is aimed at the 4 to 7 year old crowd and meant to be read aloud several times. The link also has several other good books listed below.
If I were you, I would use your time to check out other schools or daycare situations that might be better suited for your son.
Hope this helps.
Oh, and about the observation: Both my husband and I have gone to observe a few times (when he hasn't known we were there) - and conveniently, he has been perfectly well behaved on those days!
When we bring him home from school because of his behavior, it's no picnic here - we take away privileges and often I have to work so he doesn't get a lot of attention.
We took him to his pediatrician with the express purpose of looking at behavioral issues - the dr saw nothing unusual. We have a school psychologist scheduled to observe him in class in early November, and a psych assessment scheduled for December (the soonest we could get in). In the mean time, I wondering if there is anything (else) I can do to motivate him to behave while in school??? Or what else should the school be doing to motivate him?
Argh. So sick to my stomach trying to deal with this.
Thanks for asking about it. His problems typically begin after lunch. Part of the issue is that the school has an enforced nap/quiet time (students his age have to nap or stay quiet on their mats for an hour) and he has not napped for a year or more (at home or anywhere else). So that's an hour that he's basically trying to hold it together and frequently unable to do so.
Some of his very disruptive behavior (throwing things in the classroom, peeing in a wastebasket!) led the school to have us come and pick him up early several days in a row. Well, that has now taught my son that if he misbehaves, he gets to go home and be with mom, so his bad behavior is occurring more frequently, and starting earlier in the day.
He is what I would call a "strong willed child." He's always been a limit-tester and likes to argue. His verbal abilities are off the charts (literally - he speaks better and has a larger vocabulary than many kids twice his age). But he's quite well-behaved at home and he loves to help us (he always helps me in the kitchen, helps my husband in the yard) and is gentle with our pets and his friends. He rarely tantrums.
I feel so helpless because it seems we're in a terrible cycle where he knows that the worse he behaves at school, the sooner he'll be sent home, which is really where he wants to be. Both my husband and I work, so that isn't an option.
Give us a bit more info. You said he is in trouble half the time at school. What part of the day is this? Does he have a different teacher at this time? Have you personally observed him during this time to check out the situation?
Kids who have problems at the start of the day usually have very different triggers from kids who have problems at the end of the school day. So the question about his teacher is really important!
Cookiek,
Thank you for posting this and thank you for the update especially. I am in the middle of this with my nearly-4-year-old son and I am in hell. He is simply a delight at home and (from the way his teachers tell it) a holy terror half the time at school. I am so happy to hear about the light at the end of your tunnel, and so grateful you shared your experience. I can only pray our story ends similarly. Thank you.
Thank you for closing the loop! Am so happy that your son is doing well. Mine is going through a similar phase due to which we are homeschooling. He loves being homeschooled! I'm glad your son didn't have trouble going back to school! There's a light at the end of the tunnel for me :)
All the best!
i cant say how relieved i feel after reading your post and specially the updated one.i cant thank you enough as it gives me hope.i have exactly the same situation,ditto.we did everything,had him medically tested,a psychologist assessed him,everything.he came in as a typical 5 year old boy.his iq eq was in 95% percentile.so we (are) were so confused.i decided today that i will homeschool him.after reading this i feel i have made a good choice as a mom.i know the pain you must have gone through that phase but all's well that ends well.glad to hear that he is doing amazing at school.hope i will be able to see my son that way down the line.keep it up mom for believing your son :)
CookieK you obviously care so deeply for your son to ask this question and truly want to help your child succeed. Parenting is the hardest job in the world and I apologize for all the singles, parents, and school officials that you have encountered who are not supportive of you or who simply do not take the time to understand your situation. I am not going to give you parenting advice because you have probably heard it all by now. What I do want to tell you is that you are truly a lovely and amazing person and a wonderful parent. Enjoy your son and take time to care for you. Whatever you learn from this will be a light to someone else. You are so courageous and your son is so precious and beautiful. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Hugs and best wishes to you and your family.
-CMI
Thank you so much for your update. I am glad to hear that things are going so well for everybody!!! Best wishes.
Well, it's been almost a five year smooth patch so I think it will :)
Cookie, I'm glad he's going through a very smooth patch right now - hopefully that will continue.