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8 year old temper tantrums
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8 year old temper tantrums

We have a 8 year old boy who, within the past 3 or so months has begun having extreme mood problems. Throwing things when he doesn't get his way. Refuses to do anything outside of the house. FOr example we wanted to go to Monster Trucks in a few weeks, but he refuses to go. If we do go, he will ahve his head down the entire time and will not even give it a chance. HE would rather play XBox etc than talk to anyone. If he doesn't do as well on a game as the adults do, he will throw the controller and say he is stupid and can't do anything. We have taken Xbox computers away from him, but the problem doesn't end. If he plays a board game with his sister (11) the same thing happens. We had a recent incident with one of the kids at school when the boy didn't stop throwing snowballs at him (even though my son never told him to stop) my son pushed the boy down to the ground. He said, I could tell he wouldn't stop if I asked him to...

He is an honours student at school (Straight A's on his last report card) very attenative etc there. I have talked to the teacher and she says he is a well adjusted respectful boy all the time. The flip side of this is that he will have extreme happy (to the point of being giddy) as well. I have only noticed this behaviour recently, but it has be concerned. Both my his dad and I try talking to him, trying to figure out what is going on, but all I get is the evil eye (when he is upset) or he completely ignores us if he is in a happy state. Any ideas here, we have tried just about every dicispline that we can think of.  HELP anyone have a similar sit.
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13167_tn?1327197724
witsend - is this a complete change of behavior?  Up until 3 months ago,  he had none of these behaviors?  Not the anger,  or the need to always win,  or the giddiness,  or the reclusive need to sit and play Xbox?  If this is a complete change for him (not just kind of an increase in behaviors that you've seen all along) you should take him to a psychiatrist.  (Not a counselor or therapist,  and actual medical psychiatrist).  

Did he have an infection at the time this started,  or a head injury?  A complete change in behavior - especially since he can apparently control it completely in school - is bizarre and worrisome.

Best wishes.
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Avatar_n_tn
Hi,
Looking back over the past while, I can say that this is something that started probably a year ago and has progressivly gotten worse.  To the point now that it is not manageable. The control at school is what has us puzzled so therefore we assumed it was an attention getter. But even if we do only things he wants to do for a day, we have the same results.

When we take away the "reclusive" activities, things are better, for a time. But do not stay that way. The kids go to Grandma and Grandpa's for a visit every summer for 2 weeks, when I asked my mom at Christmas time if she ever saw this behaviour she hadn't. Only squabbles that normal brothers and sisters have.

There have been no signifigant changes recently. We moved once 3 years ago, and I started working part time (while the kids are in school) at approximately the same time. He has not been sick or had any sort of injury. Only thing I have had him to the doctor for was a bout of impentego after summer camp this year.

He is a big boy for his age, towering over alot of the kids in my daughters grade 5 class, and this new pushing behaviour means it isn't just at home. We are concerned about him becoming a bully and with his size, it is an easy trap for him to fall into.

I plan to take him to our GP for starters and see if there is anything physically medically wrong, IE diabetes, which his paternal grandmother has. But food doesn't seem to make a difference either.

I thought that in this forum I may find someone that has similar experiences and some suggestions for coping for the time being.... Any help would be appreciated.
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Avatar_f_tn
Hi there,

Taking your son to the GP is a good start.  Definitely rule anything medical out.  Like rockrose said, a psychiatrist is also a good place to start.  Your GP should be able to refer you to one, preferably one that has experience with children.  Medication may or may not be needed.  I would also suggest asking your GP or psychiatrist about a referral to a counselor or therapist.  Psychiatrist are great, but they primarily deal with medication concerns and that's generally about it.  it's rare that a psychiatrist does any therapy work, or if they do it's very brief.

How do you and your husband respond when your son gets upset?
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164559_tn?1233711618
I think you are very wise to take him to the GP, it sounds like it is time for him to be evaluated.  He obviously does not have add as he seems to have impulse control at school.

Be careful to remain calm (I know how hard that is when one of the kids is acting out).  Try not to react when he throws his fit.  Get up and leave the room (taking the x-box with you).  As for Monster Trucks, has he told you why he doesn't want to go?  Maybe he has an anxiety about it.  Or maybe he's just being manipulative.  I say go, leave him at home with a sitter if you have to.

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Avatar_n_tn
I have an 8 yr old daughter and she'll do the same things - It usually only happens if we have asked her to clean her room or do something she does NOT want to do - When she does that she loses privleges such as - We take her American Girl doll away and for every minute she continues to throw those tantrums it is another day that she does NOT get the doll back.  Maybe you could try that - If he plays video games tell him if he keeps it up that is another day he does NOT get to play - The key is to be consistant.  It is hard but once they know we mean business they are more likely to cool the tude!!!!!!!!!!
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Avatar_n_tn
Contrary to popular belief, spanking is still legal!
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Avatar_n_tn
Hi all,
My login wasn't working for some strange reason and it said I wasn't registered with my email, so I have a new login.

Went to the GP and he is concerned as well, and has referred us to a Child psychiatrist as Rock Rose suggested. They haven't called yet to make an appointment so we wait. There are some blood test the GP wants to run as well, which we will do tomorrow morning.

My son has been better since we saw the Doc, last week and I hoped that this had scared him into behaving, but alas it has not, today was another bad day. He has absolutely no patience I am finding and anything he doesn't understand or doesn't go his way immediately is a melt down. No huge ups in the last week, he seems to have some control figured out on that, but we also haven't seen any of the big lows until today either.

We have tried the not reacting, the calm tones, being consistant, nothing gets through.

I realize that spanking is still legal....but haven't done it in years, you try spanking a 100 lb kid, it isn't something that works anymore. The impact of the punishment just doesn't have the same affect.  
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164559_tn?1233711618
Your 8 year old weighs 100lbs.  Is he overweight?  Maybe he is being teased at school.
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Avatar_f_tn
Spanking/smacking is only illegal if you literally "beat" children..Are you the one who keeps leaving anti-spanking comments all over this forum?? Im just wondering because Ive been reading and answering alot of these questions on this forum. When I was young I got both ends, I got "spanked" by my father twice when he had allready expelled all of his other disiplines, basically when I did not listen and "beat" by my mother who would just fly into rages. I was afradi to spank my children, when and if I had any, cause I thought I to would fly off in rages. I have 4 children, they are great kids, but everyonce in a blue moon, when they are either close to the street, doing something harmful,speaking extremely disrepectfully,harming another person/child, or even  my baby touching something she shouldnt etc. I do spank/smack my child especially if Ive allready exuasted time outs, talking, grounding and warnings etc. there has never been any harm done and they realize why they got the spanking and apoligize for there crummy behavior and we talk about why it happend and what they can do to not get in trouble again. Thing magically, there are never problems about it again..By no means do I beat my child/children, but what exactly do you suggest, especially if you have a rotten kid, like some parents do, shall parents utilize in disiplining the child??? Are you a fan of spoil the child, spare the rod? Sometimes rational people need to correct things and if this is the way that the problem is handled best, then so be it. I have met plenty of parents that do not disipline there children and they constantly have problems with them. Ive had friends whos kids are spoiled and undisiplined and the parents are so distraught over their behavior that it ruins their lives and their marriages and their friendships. Children are merely small adults, if an adult grew up getting everything they wanted, or being disrespectful to others, or selfish, they would not function correctly in society, and usually would blame everyone else for their problems, when sometimes all that kid needed was some disipline or a spanking. Geez, what a world it would be if kids could just do and get anything they wanted. The world would merely not function. Parents disipline tactics, the ones that use them anyways, are the judgement of the parent to child. Those parents that over disipline there children will hurt them indeed, and will pay the consequences for it, but it never hurt to get a spanking to correct a problem, Im a firsthand learner....and proud that my parents did such a good job..
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Avatar_f_tn
To answer the weight comment, I would say yes at 8 and 100lbs, he probaly is getting teased and developing a self esteem problem because of his weight which is affecting his attitude, which is causing him to be embaressed outside and only want to stay inside with his games. Is this a new school? Does he talk about friends at school? Does he eat alot? or often? Eat only unhealthy things? How about if you go out to eat, does he refuse to eat or watch if people are watching him? We have a friend whose daughter is extremely over weight but her parents allow her to eat fast food all the time, when the teacher tried to intervene the mother just switched the girls teacher. Its so bad that my son says she is sick all the time and even throws up at school, she has been to our house and said that the kids make fun of her and the teachers are mean.I also would like to add that it seems suggestive that the problems started at school, so maybe you should talk to people there teachers, aids, principal, lunch watcher, and maybe even go check it out during lunch or break. Maybe there is a kid that keeps harrassing him, or maybe even a teacher. It seems weird that he would "flip" like that and then be so angry as not to talk to you guys about it. Im sorry this has happened but I hope you can get to the root of it quickly before he develops more problems.
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Avatar_f_tn
I have made a huge mistake, I misunderstood the legal/illegal part of the comment due to a quick scan of the comments prior to posting my own answer...I am extremely sorry for coming across so sternly and I do believe in what I wrote, but I do also believe that I should have read better, I guess I shouldnt spend so much time commenting and I should read through the comments better. I did however find the person I wanted to leave a comment for and I did respond to them. So again, I am sorry for the misunderstanding!!
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Avatar_n_tn
My husband and I are having the same problems with our 8 yr old boy. At school he is "fine". The teachers say he is respectful at school. His grades are A's and B's. Playing football and baseball,gets plenty of "workout time".He gets down on himself if he doesn't do something correct the first time then he puts himself down.If we are at a friends house and have to leave he gets angry and sits on the floor and does not listen.Bed time is not good either,he wants me to laydown with him everynight. When he gets home all hell breaksout with hissy fits. My husband starts homework with him asap from school. My son does give him a hard time. Then after homework he plays the PS3,that is when the moods change. If he looses he throws the controller,kicks and screams,cries. Once homework(study time) needs to start,he throws the tantrums again. He has been talking to the therapist at school. She said she has no idea what else to tell him b/c at school he is ok.I did findout that the lunch lady at school was giving him a hard time...ie,throwing out his lunchbox b/c he did not pickit up...taking away snacks that came with the lunch. I took care of it...she is now out of his classroom. So my husband and I thought this was the problem and it was over b/c he was happy for a while. But then it started again and now he hates his teacher,hates school,we get the angry eyes. He is so unhappy all the time. Our dr also said to talk to someone. That is our next step. My parents are very involved with my boys lives.Our 5 yr old is starting to pull the same **** but we are not letting it happen. He is more workable. So to sum it up,our house is very upset.
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Avatar_n_tn
I have an 8 yr old daughter who does the same thing. She is a straight A student and wonderful addition to her class per the teacher. She takes 3 hours or more just about every night to do her homework, even with help. She is a perfectionist and if she doesn't write it perfect,. or the word is misspelled, she screams and tears the paper or cries and erases over and over and over again until she gets it right. Calm voices, encouraging words, finding ways to make it fun.... Nothing works.

We moved about a month and a half ago from out of state. This is not just an adjustment issue for her. This behavior has been escalating over the past year or so. I do know that the move may have added to it, but no way that it is the cause. We have her school counselor observing in the classroom for now. If there is no sign of any strange behavior, then I will be looking to talk to her GP. I see there hasn't been anything posted on here over a year and was hoping I might get some updates from others in the same boat as I am....

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Avatar_f_tn
OH Thank God I found this. I am going through the same thing. I have 4 beautiful children. Our oldest we adopted and he has adhd and ocd. I will admit It has not been easy we finally got him regulated with some medication. My teen daughter has a immune disorder and is sick most of the time. Then there is another boy who is a young teen who is a normal teen boy when it comes to bickering and instigating and then there is our 8 year old son who is jeckel and hide. I am at the end of my rope. Same situation. In advanced classes at school plays on the 4 and 5th grade Basketball team even though he is in 2nd grade. Is in Little league even though should be in t - ball. He is an over achiever but when at home if he does not get his way or feels he made a mistake or has to go to bed he screams kicks yells, swears and even tries to hit me. None of the other children ever acted this way. He has many food allergies and is allergic to red dye. We watch what he eats but he still has his moments. What do we do
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774611_tn?1235448771
OMG..I can't believe other people have the same situation. My son is 8 yrs old an honor student and on his very best behavior in school. His teachers can't believe how good he is. But at home it is such a different story. Violent tantrums..slamming stuff. throwing stuff..just complete hatred for us. He threatens to jump out windows.

He plays the ps3 we take everything away from him it doens't phase him. We have given him incentive but he is only good long enough to get what he wants. and if he throws a tantrum he begs for a "2nd Chance".

Spankings don't seem to bother him anymore either.  He always appologizes after the tantrum are over but I don't understand why he has such anger towards me.

I have made an appt w/ his dr. too. As he doesn't like to eat much and he is really tiny for an 8 yr old. Barely 50lbs. It seems to me I guess that he needs to see a dr.
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Avatar_n_tn
me too
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Avatar_n_tn
Never used this site before all new to me. looking for help or mums in the same postion as myself. i have I 9yr old boy I feel he has alwalys been quite difficult but I am now thinking of seeing our dr. he says he hates me has tatums when he doesn't get his own way wether its going to a friend house or xbox. timeout has wornout i feel hes to big to spank as this makes him more anger at me. he throws things and has tryed to hit me when i take away his xbox or ds as punishment for his behaviour. i try to reward his good behaviour with time on his ds etc. but he seems so angry. i am a single mum with a 6yr old girl too. their dad left when he was 6 and does not see them he rings xmas sometimes birthdays they are upset by this. I want to help him, i thought i was alone with this problem getting me down
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Your 8 y.o. sounds a lot like our 10 y.o.  I would describe him as a "jeckel and hyde"  One of his main symptoms is that his "fuse" is incredibly short.  If something small happens he can fly off the handle and throw himself on the floor screaming like you can't believe.  Video games are the worst for us.  He is angry when he is not on them and then is angry when he has to get off.  He can have a major tantrum when he has to get off, partly because he forgets to eat.  That is another major trigger for him.  If he is hungry and/or tired he will become a terrible mess.  I spoke with all his current and past teachers none of whom reported any problems at school.  His grades are fine, but homework can be a serious battle.  I would say on the average day he can have one serious tantrum, like the one prompting me to write this.  It lasted about 30 mins. and was very, very loud to the point that my wife left with our 6 y.o.  to get away.  On a bad day he can have 2 or more serious episodes.  One thing that does not work is spanking.  I still spank at times, but usually just out of frustration.  It just escilates things to the next level screaming louder and crying out of control.  Right now he seems fine, like he just needed to get it all out.  And he may spontaniously say "sorry."  He has been like this all his life.  He also suffered from night terrors, which are mostly over.  There is some connection there I am sure.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  My only real hope is that he grows out of this.  
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Avatar_f_tn
I am exactly the same position any advice would be gratefully recieved my boy is 8 and has suffered also with night terrors from a very young age. he is wonderful in school and can be very loving at home but when he goes he really goes into one. The tantrum that he has just finished lasted for at least half an hour he was trying to hurt me  and was saying a lot of hurtful things. I demanded he go into his bedroom to calm down he went in there and was then being very destructive in his bedroom throwing things and trying to damage whatever he could even if it was his toys. He has now calmed down and expects me just to forgive him. I am able to remain calm throughout his temper I have no idea how I just sat there making sure he was not hurting himself and he hit me tried to break my bracelet and basically used me to release his anger.
My husband and I have just about at our wits end with this behaviour we also have 2 older girls who we never had this problem with they just had normal tempers I have tried to look at his diet and the things I have cut out do not seem to be affecting him. He is able to control his temper when at school though in fact he pretended he was sick the other day got sent home from school and then threw a strop when he got in the car because I said to him if he was not well he needed to go to bed when he got in.PLEASE HELP US
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Avatar_f_tn
its been two and a half yrs since your last post did you ever find the "cure" in a matter of speaking? I am having the same issues with my almost 9yr old son he does well in school but at home watch out! last yr at the start of school he was having problems and we took him to the dr and he was diagnosed with adhd and is now on adderall (adderrall) that does help him alot at school but at home it barely helps at all he is a little bit easier to talk down (or should i say was). he is the oldest of my four kids i also have a 4.5 yr old girl a 3.5 yr old boy and a 2 yr old girl.  im very scared for them mentally and physically. when he gets going it starts with name calling then moves on to throwing things which lately has gotten really bad ive actually had to go as far and pinning him to the ground. i pin him down until he stops but thats usually 30 min later. he fights to get away and get his hands on whatever he can to throw then if he cant he tries to bite me knee me and growls. i recently watched the movie orphan and the tanturms that she has remind me of his. yesterday when he was getting into one of his tantrums and this was at the very beginning he was pretending he was shooting me with his fingers and told me he was going to get a real gun and kill me. spanking hasnt helped in yrs neither does time out grounding taking away everything. last yr we moved him into the laundry rm and it got better somewhat but im thinking it was just to get back into his room. but weve progressed from i wish you were dead to im gonna kill you. so i need this stopped now. i dont think he will actually do it but everything else needs to stop to the other 3 are learning well not what to do i hope it stays this way. im sorry for rambling im exhausted!
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906020_tn?1246363174
Many times children with high functioning Aspergers Syndrome are intelligent and verbal, but have difficulty with empathy or understanding other's interests. They are very focused on their own interests and desires. They often have meltdowns and throw fits over seemingly silly little things, whenever they don't get their way or their routines/expectations are disrupted.
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Avatar_f_tn
Your comment is perfect about Aspergers Syndrome.  AT times my 3 year old seems so intelligent.  He can outwit his 7 year old brother in any game because he makes a quiit assessment on how to win and plays to win. His brother is plotts stratergy.  But if you touch him without permission....meltsdown fast.  I will never get used to not being able to touch him and hug him at will.
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Avatar_n_tn
Wow.  My 8 year old son is similar to the other 8 year olds who are angry, lacking self confidence, yet are good in school.   My son teases other kids, but is devastated if he is teased.   He is actually very sensitive to others' feelings, yet he does not want to be left out when other initiate teasing of another kid.   We saw a wonderful child psychologist (for advice, did not take my son) and he basically said that many boys this age are going through pre-adolescence and they become easily frustrated, they don't know where they fit in, and even little slights can turn into big problems for them.   The one constant I see in the the posts above is the problem of the xbox/wii/nintendo.  We are as guilty as anybody in letting our son play too much.   I personally don't want to play games with him because he is a poor sport.   But, when we do, it can be a really good time if he is in a good mood.   Less electronics time is the answer I think.  Hard to do when we all have so much on our plates and these things keep them occupied (until they have a fit and throw parts).    We have sent our son to his room when he had thrown things, then he destroys his room which is actually fine with us.   We have shown him that he should hit pillows when he is mad, and that does help him.   He sometimes beats up his bed.   We need to get him more involved in outside activities, but he thinks he can't do anything.  Yikes!  This is SO HARD.    
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I didn't read all the posts but my 8 ear old daughter is the same however now she has pushed this behavior into school as well and has had a couple tantrums there, involving screaming and banging table legs on the floor. Nothing works and I have tried it all. I took her to a neurologist (pediatric) and he said she had severe ADHD and prescribed Stattera because she is so tiny (only 46 pounds) but now, 2 weeks into it, she is worse than ever and I am not giving her anymore tomorrow. Unfortunately the neurologist is on vacation. I have discussed it with the regular pediatrician and will call her again tomorrow. Her MRI and EEG were normal. She also says her eyes see light unevenly and she gets a "blob" in one eye - all test for her eyes showed normal vision and eyes. My next stop is a psychiatrist. I believe she is bipolar. Bipolar people can be manic over long periods of time. I believe we are coming off a good year and entering he!!

Doctors are reluctant to diagnosis this but in my heart I feel that is the problem. All I want is my daughter to be healthy and lead a good life. The tantrums are effecting me physically and I have a 2 year old and a 1 year old. I have to think about them as well. I wish I had more to help all of you but at least know you are not alone. I don't know how to handle this and I think it is very very sad. I am so sad for her.

:(
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Avatar_n_tn
I know this is an old thread but maybe this will give you something to push with your doctor. As illustrated in the book The Bipolar Child:

Very Common Symptoms of Early-Onset Bipolar Disorder

Separation anxiety
Rages & explosive temper tantrums (lasting up to several hours)
Marked irritability
Oppositional behavior
Frequent mood swings
Distractibility
Hyperactivity
Impulsivity
Restlessness/ fidgetiness
Silliness, goofiness, giddiness
Racing thoughts
Aggressive behavior
Grandiosity
Carbohydrate cravings
Risk-taking behaviors
Depressed mood
Lethargy
Low self-esteem
Difficulty getting up in the morning
Social anxiety
Oversensitivity to emotional or environmental triggers
Common Symptoms of Early-Onset Bipolar Disorder
Bed-wetting (especially in boys)
Night terrors
Rapid or pressured speech
Obsessional behavior
Excessive daydreaming
Compulsive behavior
Motor & vocal tics
Learning disabilities
Poor short-term memory
Lack of organization
Fascination with gore or morbid topics
Hypersexuality
Manipulative behavior
Bossiness
Lying
Suicidal thoughts
Destruction of property
Paranoia
Hallucinations & delusions
Less Common Symptoms of Early-Onset Bipolar Disorder
Migraine headaches
Binging
Self-mutilating behaviors
Cruelty to animals

Most of you listed a great deal of these problems in your posts. I hope this helps someone. I have been through a lot of "maybe" diagnoses and I am not sure if my daughter or your kids have this but it is information and I hope it is useful. (((BIG HUGS)))) To all you and I hope your children grow to be happy adults :)
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My partner has a daughter who is a twin and just turned 9 and she also has tempertantrums.She mostly cries and sulks alot but sometimes she is more withdrawn with her friends.We blamed it on the situation with her mom,because her mom(partner's ex wife)and him are into a custody battle.She tells the children many things about thier dad which are completely untrue,so half truth.She also screams at them alot and  this child is extremely close to her dad.I am thinking thta 8 years old kids are changing in thier ways and thinking different,I dont know.
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Avatar_f_tn
There could be other issues, but get Omega 3's going now, and I bet it will help! My daughter who is 8 had alot of moody and hyper controlling behaviours and attitudes, and I thought it was just a very bossy dominant personality. Over Christimas holidays I started my kids on a smoothie with Udo's DHA oil and my daughter's behaviour and attitudes have DRAMATICALLY IMPROVED far beyond what I expected! She does not wig out when I correct her anymore, is calmer and happier, more easy going and obedient when I ask her to pick up her things etc. She even told me she feels better emotionally and is looking forward to the smoothie that helps her each day. My son is also calmer and they are both eating better too! Not begging so much for sugary snacks and eating their vegetables better for the first time ever a few days ago! Unbelievable.
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I feel for all you and hope you ALL get some answers soon.  This must be hard to deal with.  I am having issues with my son at school and let me tell you it's tough!
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Wow!  I can't believe there are so many other parents out there who are experiencing the same thing.  My husband and I have a 10 year old son and a 7 year old son.  Our 10 year old has terrible tantrums that involve destroying everything.  Throwing things, telling us he hates us, picking on his brother.  This happens when he has planned something out and we tell him no or when he just doesnt get his way.  I have noticed they get much worse when he plays video games.  We do not own any video games, but he was at a friends house last Friday and this friend has video games and this week it seems like all he wants to do is find some way to play video games.  He wanted friends to sleep over and wrote on the invite for them to bring their video game system, which he knows is not allowed.  There is a reason we don't have video games.  Someone had tried giving one to us before and our son was not able to get off when his 30 minutes was up so we gave it back.  

It's like a Jekyll & Hyde effect and is very frustrating and scary.  It's like he is not able to control his anger.  He also has pretty regular pooping accidents in his underwear.  We have had that checked by his doctor and everything in his body is fine.  We've had xrays done and everything.

Could there be some connection between electronic stimulation and anger??  I just don't know what to do about this anymore or what the problem is.  We are taking him to yet another psychologist to see if they can help.  We do not believe in medicating our children though and I already avoid all artificial flavorings and colorings for our family.  

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Avatar_m_tn
WOW! After reading all of these comments I am amazed at how many people are going through the same thing I am with my 6 year old son. He does exceptionally well in school but at home, Yikes! He has been gradually changing for the past year and a half. He started with behavioral problems such as throwing a fit when his dad or I tell him no. He started hitting himself when we correct him and try to talk to him. Now he is complaining of headaches and has even started hallucinating. We have taken him to the pediatrician who ordered blood work and a CT scan, so far no answers. I am very frustrated and do not know what to do. I notice some of these posts are over a year old, has anyone in this same situation got any answers yet?
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I posted a few months ago on this thread, but I would just like to say again, that these types of behaviour issues can be caused by food allergies and metabolic issues. I speak from experience. It's hard to believe, but a few dietary changes can be as effective as any medication, you just have to figure out which one your child needs.

1) Try removing all dairy just for a few days to see if it helps, especially if they are drinking pre-mixed chocolate milk... a few days can't hurt them, there are lots of kinds of calcium chewy candy's at the vitamin shop. Google "brain allergy". My son's allergy to milk affects his brain
2) Add an egg every day to their diet. Low cholesterol causes poor nerves, and inhibits brain function. Google it, it's everywhere. The myelin sheaths on your nerves and the seratonin in your brain is all made up of cholesterol! It takes a few months to build up
3) Get Omega 3s with DHA into them at all costs. (Smoothie, soft gels, or pills if possible)

Not all doctors may agree, but I made these changes on the advice of a physician and it has transformed my children and all of our lives. Try it, it's easy
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Please help.

I have a 9 year-old daughter who has gone completly psycho.  She screams at me when I tell her to clean her room or anything else.  i could tolorate the screaming but she calls me Satan and the devil.  She also tells me she wishes I didn't live there.  I am at my wits end to the point I don't want to be around her.  I know a terapist would be the way to go, because this could not be "normal" behavior.  She even says she wants to be a good girl and she doesn't know why she acts the way she does.  HELP!!!!
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Avatar_m_tn
  Is she this way at school?  If she is than you have a lot more to worry about and you may have to see a therapist for her (in fact, the school should help).  
    If she is not like this at school, than this is something she is doing to get a bit of control over her environment.  If so, I would highly suggest you get, "SOS Help for Parents" by Lynn Clark.  This book will give you ways to deal with her that are very effective and it will help both her and you.  Good Luck
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I'm another Mom with an eight year old who's acting out.  Similar to the above cases.  My heart goes out to you all.....
Thanks to those who've posted suggestions.  (esp. the eggs one)
And I'd like to add a note about a book I've found helpful in the past...
The Explosive Child:a new approach for understanding and parenting easily frustrated, chronically inflexible children.  by Ross W. Greene. Harper 2005.
I'm planning on making an appt with someone soon, even though.
Wishing you all well, and good luck.
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Avatar_n_tn
It does make us all feel better to know that we are not alone, that we are all in the same boat, so to speak.
My 8 yr old boy has become a total nightmare. Unlike many of your children my son does well academically in school but lacks focus and self control. So we took him for an ADHD evaluation. According to that evalutation he has ADHD, the inattentive type. He tried Ritalin, wouldn't eat and his behavior at school didn't change. He is now on Strattera and still, no change at school'
He is very bright, acheiving high scores when he tries.
At home the boy is a mess. He only wants to play his video/wii/dsi games. He has a major problem transitioning from these activites to anything else. He screams, is violent, nasty, rude and generally horrible. If he likes the way things are going he is great. A funny, charming boy. If not, watch out. I am sooo OVER it. He causes a great deal of anxiety at home. His 7 yr old sister starts to cry and is now showing signs of distress..
I am starting to think that ADHD is not the issue. And as for Bi-polar disorder, many docs believe that this is just a "convenient" diagnosis when none other can be matched. My belief is that it has been removed from the DSM.
We will keep trying because i simply cannot imagine living with this person when he reaches his teen years. I don't know if I can do it. This is hard.
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Avatar_m_tn
  Due to the type of medication that strattera is, it does take a while before the affects are noticed. Ritalin is very fast acting, if the dosage is correct.  
  It sounds like he has learned how to get his way at home.  Intelligent kids do that almost spontaneously. He will continue to be nasty as long as that works for him.  Changing the behavior is possible.  It requires immediate consequences and extreme consistency on your part.  Realize it will take several weeks (some experts say 21 days) before it works completely.  Only pick one of two things to work on at a time.  This approach is covered in several child help books.  The one that is mentioned a lot is,  "SOS Help for Parents," by Lynn Clark.
  I would seriously recommend that you also buy,  "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.  Besides giving a lot of good information on working with and changing the behavior of ADHD/ADD kids, you will also get a ton of good information on the symptoms, cures, etc., for ADHD/ADD.  
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Have you tried Focalin for ADHD? My son was put on that first and it seemed to take the edge off his tantrums (by no means did they go away)! He had to be taken off them for a short period as we were in the middle of diagnosing Tourettes and wanted to make sure the meds weren't making the tics worse (they weren't). When we took him off the Focalin...OMG...the tantrums were 5-10 a day and 2 hour tantrums were not uncommon. With all the doors and windows closed...he could be heard from the street! We endured this for about 2 months while we focused on getting him the right meds for his Tourettes. Finally due to the expense of Focalin, the neurologist put him on Concerta (which has a generic...ritalin). Well, I thought the tantrums were bad before...ha, the Concerta made him extremely violent and explosive. Gave him 2 weeks on this ritalin and decided my house, body and nerves couldn't take another day of this...not to mention what all this anger was doing to his poor little body :(  Pulled him off of ritalin and put him back on the very expensive Focalin (which by the way is just a more pure form of ritalin...dexmethylphenidate). Phew...back to just one or two major blowouts a day! It is also easier to turn him before he goes into full blown tantrum and they tend to only last 10-30 minutes at most now. We have had to tweak his dosage and times a few times, but seem to be doing better-ish now. He also takes Tenex (guanfacine) for his tics, but we found it also helps not blow up as easily during the "crash" period when the adhd meds wear off.
The next step we are trying starting tonight is to give him melatonin before bed. He has never been a sleeper since birth. When he does go to sleep, he seems very restless and constantly on the move in his sleep. I mentioned this to the neurologist and told her that I was concerned that he was not getting a restful enough sleep and that maybe that was contributing to some of his behavior issues. He also springs out of bed as soon as his eyes open...literally! It is often at 4:30-5 am when he gets up, never later than 6am. Considering he goes to sleep around 10pm (we start at 7:30-8), I just don't think that is enough rest. She suggested Melatonin, starting at 3mg and increasing until he seems to rest peacefully. Melatonin is what your body naturally produces to induce sleep. She said he may just not produce enough. Keep your fingers crossed for me!
I have said for years that I thought he might be bipolar. I don't think they diagnose that until at least 12, but I am watching him closely. Anxiety and depression run STRONG in my husbands family, my family history is unknown. I will have to do more research on that as well now.
I will also look more into the brain allergy info and Omega 3. We definitely notice increased aggitation when he has consumed red dye or anything blue so we restrict that. Caffeine is also a major trigger for him.
Hope everyone finds the right answers for their child. It is so frustrating to watch your child go through this torture. I often have to remind myself when I am at my wits end, that as bad as this is for me...IT IS WORSE FOR HIM!!! Just imaging how their little bodies feel after such outbursts...he is living in his own personal he!!
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i agree with the lady who talks about a good legal spanking,i read these post and 90% of the parents say oh no it won't help, but i say what going to happen when they get older, do you think the police is going to reason with them before the night stick come out? better you give then some loving punishment or you are always going to have problems, i know when i was in school i was always so scared to get paddle, but if i knew i wasn't going to feel some pain i would have run wild, think about this i know every situation with their child is diffenrent but when you rean all the post i can say no wonder, good luck everyone with their probs.
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  All punishment should be loving.  And there are many more effective ways to give punishment that don't deal with physical punishment.
  Frankly, I didn't mind the spanking because it was over and done with.  When my father wised up and simply said, "here's a hoe, there is 10 acres waiting for you!".  I got the message.
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Puzzled? My 8 year old daughter is smart and intuitive. She's wonderful in school and is in basketball, dance, softball, drama and all that throughout the year. She's empathetic to others, a caregiver and always everyones favorite. She likes to be busy and is a major pain when she's not. But....my problem is with her at home. She comes home goes straight in her room puts on the tv after picking out what she wants for dinner of course. She runs to her room for everything. Anything I ask her to do whether it be to clean her room, brush her teeth, take a shower I get a huff and a puff. Or I'll get "If I do it can I have?" type of question.
This all started I would say around 2-3 years ago. I raised her by myself till she was 5. Her sperm donor as I call him has never been in her life. So I guess to compensate for that, when she went with her nana or grandma I would let them give her whatever she wanted. I feel I am pretty strict. I try to stick to my rules but sometimes it's easier to just give in. She doesn't give up either if she wants something. I literally have to say no about 100 times till she gives up. And the 100th time I usually am yelling it till she get's the point. She seems emotional. She has to win everything, very competitive with herself and everyone else. She is loud and in your face. Like with her little sister she gets in her face and is just loud. Not in a mean way, just like in a hyper loud excited type of way.
This causes problems with me and her one day to be step-father cause he feels like I'm not strict enough. But his idea of strict is spanking. He would never spank her cause she's not his. I know my daughter and she wouldn't respond to spanking now. I do believe in spanking and I have spanked before but for my oldest It's not something that will work now for her.
The best way to describe her bad behavior would be spoiled, extremely dramatic, emotional, pouty, loud and it's pretty much all about her. I don't think it's a phase. It affects our family and even for us wanting to do anything outside of the house. It's not fun when everyone is on board and going with the flow and theres your daughter in the corner with her head down cause she didn't get her way with something. It puts everyone in a bad mood. Is this an underlying issue? Something that's going to get better or worse. I try to ignore the drama or outbursts. I have taken her tv or ds or walkman away, I've tried it all. It's only at home. Anyone outside of the house would be shocked if I told them. I would never want to put her on medication. And I honestly don't know who to take her to see about this, or if I would trust there judgement. I know this is long I just don't know what to do anymore. HELP!!! Any advise is welcome
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Gosh...I am both relieved and sad to hear that so many other families are facing the same issues that we are with our eight-year-old daughter. Like so many other children in this discussion group, our daughter is healthy, vibrant, confident and smart. But, then suddenly she just seems to snap and lose it. She will scream, shake violently, get incredibly angry -- and often triggered by some irrational interpretation of a situation. I've noticed that sometimes these episodes come on right before eating, and that as soon as she eats something she becomes "normal" and happy again. But, this isn't always the case. Sometimes it isn't a food issue but rather if her routine or expectations are disrupted. Like some of the other children described above, she doesn't seem to understand why she acts like this and doesn't want to act like this. She will often say to me at bedtime, "mommy I love you, I'm sorry I did that today, I just don't know why. I don't want to act like that." We had been just chalking her behaviour up to normal child "stages" of development, but it just seems to be getting more volatile, and worse, she has now started saying things like "no one likes me, I just want to die." This really scares me and made me realize that something is very wrong, so we have an appointment this week with her doctor. She is one of the most popular little girls in her class, does lots of playdates and sleepovers, and is loved by everyone around her. Today she had a complete and massive meltdown and said that everyone hated her including God (and we aren't even regular churchgoers) because rain came in the car window and got her seat all wet.  If I get any information from the meeting with her doctor that is worth sharing with this group, I certainly will do so. We all love our children so much, and it is so difficult to see them suffering this way, especially when they are so very young.
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If the behavior is happening only at home my guess is the problem is there.  Maybe the parents are expecting behaviors beyond his ability?  Maybe he feels stress in the home?  I would say to pick your battles.  It may be as simple as he is pushing away in an attempt to grow up.
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This is very common.  Always check with your pediatrician to rule out medical issues, but a lot of what is described is what happens when children (especially boys) have high expectations of what they should be able to do, are of above average intelligence, and really care about what others think (lack self-confidence).  I taught for years, and would see it often:  the model student who gets an 89, and gets pale and appears to be slightly upset, but says he is fine-- holds it together in class, in front of his peers.  Gets home, and takes it out on his family, over something completely unrelated.  I always thought it was because that's where they felt safe to let their true feelings out.  As far as how to deal with it, I think consistent expectations with consistent consequences work best-- whether you believe in spanking or not.  Also, the consequence must really be that-- if the child perceives the consequence rewarding enough to be "worth it," you are definitely going to see more of the behavior.  An example:  if the child feels ignored (not saying he is, just if he feels that way), but he gets all kinds of reactions and attention when he screams at mom, then it is "worth" it.  For resources, google Behavior intervention plans.  I also like the Five Love Languages for Children-- when we give our child what they really need, they really feel loved!
For the record, I do spank, but very, very rarely-- consistency is a lot of work, but it does work!
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Thank you thank you for this post.  Thank you especially katarina123.  My 8 year old son is very much like the descriptions in these posts.  There is nothing physically wrong with him but the tantrums over the littlest thing at home are out of control.  He is classed as a gifted and talented child and his teachers describe him as a teacher's dream.  He has a great diet - lots of fruit, veges, protein and limited sugar and junk food.  He excels at sport and is extremely active. At home he is another child. However, he is very sensitive.   I am planning to speak to a psychologist for advice on how we as parents can respond.  However, I have so far concluded (I do have some psychological training) that he like his father is a perfectionist and very strong-willed.  Also becasue of his intellignece he rapidly becomes frustrated and is not mature enough to know how to handle it hence the tantrums.  I think also becuase of his intelligence he knows exactly how to manipulate a situation.  Anyway, this post has made me feel I'm not alone and katarina123 you support my thoughts. So thank you.
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Thank you.  I have had my 8 year old to the doctor and no problems that they can see. I is bright, funny, social. Then he is explosive, negative, self hating.  I keep thinking in the back of my mind that there is something wrong with him.  Not now.
Now it is my turn to remain calm(not easy) be the adult, be consistent -also not easy and ride it out with stoic loving patience!
Good Luck everyone!
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My 8 year old has always been difficult since birth as a baby he was a hair puller and face scratcher of any child his own age who got close..he controls that now (took a ton of work)..he has a younger brother who he can be violent towards and just downright nasty ..flip side is he is gorgeous and charming and very funny to outsiders parents at school constantly tell me stories about how adorable he is ..inside my heart flutters coz at home is rude aggressive and totally dismissive of me we have not had one day without a tantrum yesterday he screamed himself hoarse and said he wished he could throw scissors in my face..all because i asked him to get changed for basketball practice (which he loves) he just likes to oppose anything i say it is now at the stage where i dread after school he was tested at school and was below average which they felt was strange because they say he is very bright but he does struggle with working consistently..i have tried omega 3 no preservatives etc...with no change i fear what teenager he will be and the stress upsets our whole family...
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I agree with Katarina 123 & Karablue. My 8 yr old has been throwing tantrums which have destroyed his bedroom for many years. We have virtually taken away everything from his bedroom and slowly allowed things back as he earned them back. But one of the biggest turn arounds was when he had a particularly extreme temper attack. i recognised that he just couldn't 'snap out of it so I held him really tightly and said" it's okay, don't let your temper win, I'm here to help, i love you, I know you feel angry but don't let it win, it is not who you are" I kept repeating this over and over until gradually he realised I had given him a way out allowing him to behave better. It separated his anger from his identity. We still have temper out bursts but he gains great self esteem when he is able to get them under control himself.
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He is 8. They become moody, happy, sad, tantrums and so forth. At least this is what I read when looking up my sons change in behavior. He would come home sad. Say he did not have any friends, then the next day he would have friends and be happy. He pushes as well, and when I try and talk with him he sometimes listens, but other times says I KNOOOOOW MOM! or FINE! I want him to be happy, but the 8 year old characteristics says most will act this way. By the age of 9 it should all but go away. My child is average height, but has gained significant weight over the last year. He now weighs 100lbs. We are working on his diet, to stop weight gain and wait till he grows into it.

He also can not seem to read faces or understand that he is being annoying. With the male brain almost all of them have a hard time reading faces, but still it is a helpful tool for them to know when playing with others. My son just keeps on and on even after they have said stop several times. We have the wii games, that sometimes gets played, and he just got a ds that he sometimes plays. He is in karate, and rides his bike every single day. We have mostly girls in our neighborhood and our house is the one everyone comes to. Still he has a hard time with them and I find myself on pins and needles waiting for him to do something that makes someone fall down or tattle on him.

If he gets in trouble at home he whines and cries and says PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I wont do it again please pleaseplease....and throws himself on the bed.

What works for me as of now.
Time out;
I add a minute on each time I tell him to go to his room, once he is in his room it can be 8 min if he goes right away, but he he pleads not to go I say 9 min, 10 min, so on. By that point he runs to his room. Then I say I will not set the timer till you stop crying and stop your tantrum.  When over I say, why were you in time out? then I say, do you understand I love you but I do not like those words you said or that behavior.

If it is something bad such as hitting or pushing a person: He must clean the potty or pick up dog poop in the backyard. Best one so far is writing sentences not to hurt others. Or when someone says no, stop. At least 50 times.....more if they are a better or faster writer.

I am still in the midst of my son being 8, and I hope this all goes away soon. His teachers say he is wonderful, sweet and kind. He has straight A's and almost perfect attendance. I am just going to try and help him through this, and do what I think is best. Good luck.  
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Our son is experiencing the same things, but I would not go as far as some who are experiencing ADHD, etc.  Our son is extremely sensitive.  For example, there was a shooting in our town and kids at school of course began talking about it, it took our son 2-3weeks to let it go.  Still need to sit with him at night for him to go to sleep.  Video games he loves and we take those away when he mis-behaves.....and same response...NO NO PLEASE I WON't DO IT AGAIN...PLEASE PLEASE...but you have to follow through.   Outside of these things his school work is beyond his grade level.....ADHD is contrary to this behavior.....he def has some anger issues when he loses it, but never throwing things just screaming, crying, running away to avoid talking about anything.  The only other thing he does is he enjoys things once he is there (e.g., baseball, basketball, vacation, etc etc) but when it is time to leave for these things....temper tantrum city......then he is fine once there and afterwards he actually says "Dad I did have fun .... "....he actually admits it after it is all over....but it seems he just doesn't want to leave home ever.
We are looking to take him to someone to talk to, but it certainly appears this is an 8 year old (or similar age) thing and not an extreme issue based on so many folks with the same symptoms occuring at the same time frames.
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Hi.  I have rad with great interest all the comments.  My son is now 10 and we have difficultis with him since he started school at 4.  He has always been hyper sensitive and for a long time we could not watch the news for fear of something 'sad' or 'worrying' appearing.  Although he is above average intelligence from IQ tests he is actually below in his school work.  He threatens all the time to kill himself and has tried to jump from the upstairs balcony.  He bites and bruises himself quite badly.  He shows all the above character traits of the children discussed and he is not getting any better even with counselling.  He has been attending for nearly two years and will not speak of his anger issues.  His social skills are poor with his peers but not with adults.  I am so scared for him and for us as he has now started taking his anger out on me and he is a big boy. He has ADD and processing issues.
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    I am glad to see that he is in counseling.  However, it is just as important for you to be getting advice on how to work with him - have you been getting that advice from anyone?  I am also wondering if he is on any medication and if so, has the medication been changed lately.  At his age if he is on meds, the amount should be greater than when he started due to growth changes.  If he is not on meds, then it is even more important that you understand what ADHD is doing to him and how to help him.
    In, "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley, she says that anxiety and depression are fairly common with ADHD and it certainly sounds like that is two of his biggest problems.  I would suggest that you buy the above mentioned book and start from there.
   If you have any more questions, I monitor the ADHD site here on medhelp and will see your post easily there.  But do make it a separate post.  
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Thank you for such a prompt reply.  He is on no medication at the minute and his counselling sessions involve both of us albeit separately.  I do get benefit from them and can help him to a modest extent but his anxiety levels are such that he goes completely out of control very quickly.  Take today, he has to look at fractions, I was showing him, not asking him, how to do  1/2 and 1/4's.  He suddenly got itchy eyes (for 15 mins), followed by ringing of the hands for the next twenty minutes follwed by him wishing he were dead. He then ran up to his room, where he threw everything everywhere and finished by biting his arm I hadn't even asked him anything!!  I had only brought out his homework sheet!  he is falling far behind and not because he doesn't have the necessary IQ but because he is not capable of allowing himself to even consider learning.  To compound issues he gets tired very easily and then has to go to bed.
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    Interesting, Ashley in her book (p.117) says the quickest way to help your child become less anxious about homework is for you to become less anxious about it.  She then goes on for the rest of the page to explain this concept.  It makes sense to me.  Whether it applies to your situation or not - I have no idea, but it is food for thought.
   By  the way, she also mentions that the kids get over whelmed by the size of the homework, so clear the table of everything unrelated to the assignment.  And then cover the page so that he can see only the row of problems he is currently working on.
   The very obvious thing is that your son is highly anxious right now.  I am guessing that the start of school is part of the reason - so he may calm down a bit as he gets used to classmates etc.  He should have a 504 about his homework problems.  Does he?  If not thats really important.  Oh, I guess I should ask if you know what a 504 is?
    By the way, what grade is he in and when is his birthday?  4th grade doesn't usually start out with fractions, and its been awhile since I've been in 5th, but there are other things we usually review first.  I am basically wondering how his age compares to the other kids in his class.  That can be a huge anxiety factor.   And being tired easy is a sign of anxiety and depression, so that is understandable.
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Thank you again.  He is in year 5 now. They are beginning with a revision of Year4 which was basic fractions, decimals and percentages.  I have tried to cover his work for him but he knows what is underneath and becomes obsessed about the amount he 'thinks' he has to do.  I discovered the covering idea because he doesn't follow the questions in order, ie number 1 then number 2 etc. He may do number 3 then number 6 then number 10.  He can't grasp 'order'.  He spends so much time worrying about how many there are or how many pages he has to read that the time we could have spent on his homework is spent trying to calm and pacify him and then it's too late to do anything because he is tired and too upset!!  I have ordere the book, so thankyou for that.  Because we live in the UK we have something called statementing and after four years of trying we have finally got one.  This means he will now get extra help in class for one hour a day but it's the issue of anxiety as well that I feel needs to be addressed.  For example, I have to choose his clothes every day because he gets too stressed and upset if he has to do it himself.
It was suggested that he may have ADD when he was 7.  He was struggling in school and saying he was different to the other children.  I thought he may have dyspraxia because his writing is poor and he can't do certain things like ties or shoe laces and gets confused with heft and right.  Anyway, the private specialist said she thought he showed symptoms of ADD but the school did not recognise it and the local authority does not believe in the condition!  Basically, we have had no help with ADDand in fact the school managed to convince me he didn't have it.  It is only your advice that made me remember and reconsider it.
Thanks again
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    It really does sound like he has severe anxiety.  The book will help with the ADD and perhaps that will help lessen some of the anxiety, but if he continues to downward spiral - you may need better professional help.  I would make sure he gets out to play and exercise while the weather is still good.  Do let his teacher know how anxious he is!  Sometimes, an understanding teacher (and a few kind words at the right time) can make a huge difference.   I would also talk to his teacher about him not having to do all of his homework right now.  She should only expect him to do about half and let him know that.  If he is able to cope with that then he can do more of the assignment.
   Have you noticed that his anxiety has gotten a lot worse since the school year started?
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OMG!!!  I need to have my husband read this thread.  My sone is 10 and is SO much like most of the boys described here.  He has always had a "short fuse".  He is an extremely affectionate boy, very loving and is suprisingly emphathetic for a young boy.  But if things don't go his way, watch out!!!.  He's also a perfectionist.  When he was 8 or so, homework was a nightmare.  If he couldnt follow the instructions immediately or if he didnt understand it fully, he would get extremely upset, throw the pencil, ect and say "I'm just STUPID!!".  Everytime we would have a parent/teacher conference I would go in expecting to hear about his temper ect, and would always walk out being pleasantly suprised (or amazed) when the teacher would tell my husband and I what a pleasure he is to have in class.  No problems at school.  
My son also enjoys video games. But once they prove difficult, his temper flairs to the point of yelling and throwing the controller.  He will accuse the game of cheating.  He would get angry at his DS game and use the stylus to hit the screen, despite numersous warnings by me that it would eventually break the game.  Eventually it DID break the game.  He had to save money for a new DS himself as I said I refused to buy him a new one.  Now, if his temper starts to get the best of him, I make him shut the game off until he cools down.  (At which point he will slam the game down, make a comment under his breath and then an argument ensues between us unless I have enough sense to not argue with a 10 year old) :-)    Its amazing how easy it is to get sucked into an argument iwth a 10 year old, despite the fact that you know that it shouldnt be happening.  
He will push-push-push to see how far he can push.  Sometimes its like he Needs to get a STRONG reaction from us before he can stop.  That worried me.  He is an only child so he isnt competing with anyone for attention.  On the contrary, we are a very close and loving family.  There are "I Love You's" said between the my husband, son and myself everyday when leaving for the day and every night before bed.  
We took him to see a psych. a few years ago to have him checked for ADHD, ect. At that time, he would use the phrase "i just want to kill myself" when he would get angry.  Also, he seemed to be getting very preoccupied with weight and fat.  Ironic because he is extremely small for his age. At 10 he is only in a size 8 and weights maybe a little over 60 lbs.  I understand that he gets upset about being the shortest boy in his grade, but the weight issue worried me as I struggled with bulemia for a number of years and I was extremely worried that I was teaching this behavior to him (I try very hard to be concious of my behavior on this but there are so many things we say/do without realizing it and darn it if those kids don't pick up on EVERYTHING)
  After numerous sessions, we were told not to worry,  that he is a normal boy with no real issues other than he tends to have some anxiety issues, which we already knew.
my husband says that he's disrespectful, doesn't listen and has anger issues.
I say he's 10, and that his behavior is probably not that much different than many other 10 years olds, (which I see is pretty accurate based on what I've ready here) and that his temper matches his fathers who is JUST LIKE HIM  :-)
I'm not saying he doesnt need discipline when he misbehaves or is disrepectful.  I'm the one that normally deals with the discipline andI have NO hesitation about disciplining him if its needed. I've spanked him before, and I'm not completely against spanking.  But after some deep thought about it, I feel that if I get to the point of spanking, its not because he's lost his temper, it's because I'VE lost MINE, and then nothing is really solved and we BOTH feel awful.  Time outs work best for me.  10 minutes sitting on the steps to the basement (top step on an open stairway).  No talking, no whining, nothing.  If he does, or if his temper gets going and he starts to kick the wall or something, another minute is added.  He doesnt move until the timer goes off.  This USUALLY (though not always) gives him sufficient time to cool off.  He's still angry when he'd done with the time out, but he isnt in full-on temper tantrum mode.  He also apologizes alot of the time afterwards.  
There are SO many things on this thread that sound like him - too many to name them all on this post LOL.  But I feel better knowing that it sounds like he is like many, many other children his age.  Fine at school, but a handful and a half at home.

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Gosh.  I could have wrote that.  It's amazing how many of us are struggling.  I have another child and he is completely different to my eldest.  Homework is a doddle, loves to read, plays on his own, gets on with other children so that the differences between them are more marked.   I just feel so sorry for him.  I am like his comfort blanket and if I'm not about he completely panics.
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He gets extremely anxious at the start of school.  Homework was stopped but he is quite far behind and the school wants to re-start it.  I just feel that he always gets away with not doing anything because he is too anxious.  He always says in half an hour or later and it does not matter what time we try to do it, straight from school, after tea etc.  the result is always the same.  Like Natesmom616 my son cannot play games of strategy or skill as he loses his temper and he too threatens to kill himself.  It is really upsetting for us all and after he calms down he is so sad with himself.  He says he wants to know but does not want to learn!  I should get the book you mentioned across the next few days so will read it with great interest.  Has anyone ever considered hypnotherapy to bolster self-esteem and anxiety issues?  It is something I wonder could maybe help.
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I know what you mean.  My husbands says my son is mama's boy.  Its true in a way.  But I'm the one with him most of the time.   I dont treat him like a mama's boy (at least I dont THINK it do).  But I'm glad that he talks to me and is so comfortable with me that he feels he can ask me anything.  I think thats a GOOD thing.   I'm guessing as he gets older he'll hang out with dad more than me.  but they are SO much alike that they butt heads.  
My husband is a really good father;  tells our son all the time that he loves him and when they are both in good moods, they have a ball together.  But they pick at each other too and depending on whether or not one of them is already close to that "over the edge" point, it can put me into a referee position.  Sometimes I have to remind my husband that WE have ONE child, I am not suposed to have a 10 year child and a 43 year old child.  They both say things when angry that they know they shouldn't say.  My husband says that our sons temper is worse than his and that he needs to learn how to control it.   I tell him they could take a "father/son" class LOL  

I dont think his temper is worse than his dad's. I just think one of them has a bad temper for a 43 year old, and one has a bad temper for a 10 year old.  Just means they get mad about different things.

Another thing......my son is definately a follower, not a leader.  Which is one of my biggest concerns as he ventures closer to the teen years and peer pressure.  He's a pleaser, and while he can be bossy at times, he has already shown a tendency to fall in behind the kind of kids that cause trouble.  I'm under no illusion that my child is perfect and does nothing wrong.  We've had many discussions about choosing friends wisely and making good decisions despite what his friends may do.  He has his own mind and he is aware that I will not accept him blaming others for choices that he has the free will to make.    But I'm scared sick about what he will get into while trying to please others and be a part of the "in crowd", i.e.drugs, smoking, ect.  
  I am trying very hard to raise a child who has good self confidence (something I did not have growing up, hence the eating disorder and other OCD issues).  Possibly because I lacked self confidence until I was in my mid to late 20's, I'm not very adept at teaching it ?????
Anyway, I say this all because I'm curious....these kids all sound so similar with respect to behavior, self control, temper and sesitivity..does anyone else find that their child tends to be a follower more than a leader?  or does it not really seem to play into it at all?
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The things we mums worry about.  I also worry about those things too, plus I see him living a life at home with no job etc.  All we want is for them to be happy.  Don't get me wrong he is a beautiful boy and the times when he is happy are the best times and I guess we will appreciate those times more but you know what, we are not alone now and this site has made me feel human again.  Take care and write to you soon.
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Hi
I have just received the book by Susan Ashley and I have read it already!!  The thing is I am quite sad.  He certainly fits the criteria and in addition he has some of the 'extras' that children with ADD have like anxiety, compulsive behaviour and learning/processing difficulties etc.  In addition his poor social skills have led to him losing his friends in the road this week.  I'm not sure what happened but it has been increasingly obvious that his 'friends' have been teasing him about getting tired and having to have rests and have been taking great pleasure in winding him up until he starts crying.  The other night, and I don't know what he had done to deserve it, he says he said his friend's name wrong and was only copying the chasing game that they were playing when they all decided to be mean to him, 'skitting' him and telling him to go home crying to his mummy: which he did.  they have all deleted him as friends from the x box and play two doors down where he can see them.  To make matters worse, I went out with some rubbish and they were still being mean about him even though he wasn't there!  I didn't say anything at first but when I went out about half an hour later, they were all laughing and saying he was probably still under his quilt crying.  I told them they were mean making snidey comments about him and they were supposed to be his friends and that they knew he was ill (he has CF which I now believe may have come from his ADD).  They seem to have a higher set of rules from him than for themselves, they are less tolerant in short. They can  make fun of stuff and of each other but if he tries there is trouble.  Also, I know my boy has a propensity for trying to make people laugh by using the words bum, smelly, snotty etc..  without being with him 24 hours a day I just don't know how I can stop this.  I have tried to explain to him that as he gets older this behaviour will result in the loss of friends and now it has.  Now he has no friends! I wish we livbed on a desert island and t the only thing we had to worry about his where we catch the next fish.

Although the book has confirmed my worries it has not really helped.  We see his counsellor again in September so I will lend her the book.  I'm just so sad for him.  He is the love of my ife and his life is not happy.
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I have just spoken with my husband and he is going to take us all away for the weekend.  He thinks we all need a break!  I am going to take the book too and we are going to look at strategies like flash cards and rules etc because we are always scared of disciplining him because he self-disciplines by hurting himself and we never want to make it worse.  Thanks
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Hi, I just had the same thing for my boy who is the largest in the class, not the smallest.   I asked him to come to the shop with me just now, and then we would play table tennis in the park. He didn't want to come to the shop, (after a few hours on the computer), but I insisted.  After threats of taking PS away etc etc he finally came along.  Honestly 10 minutes of major ear bending like a whiny 3 year old and in the end I just told him to go back home, that it was way too boring to listen to.

After a quick discussion when I get home, I have now just had a lecture from him about how I am not a very good mother as I shouldn't have given in to him and I should have stood my ground and made him come all the way!!!  He like yours is really articulate, smart, pleasant 90% of the time and a right pain the rest. But unfortunately not that good at school, wants to do it his own way and not there's even if it is wrong. (Ahem, don't know where he gets that from!!)

We have read all the childcare books and had some help from outside too.  They said the same, nothing much wrong, some impulse control he will grow out of, perhaps we aren't strict enough.  Now he's got all the psycho babble to throw back at me as well as the tantrums!  I think I might just wack him, except he is nearly bigger than me and might hit me back!
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I have a 7 and 6 year old sons, who has no relationship with his father. My 7 year old constants picks on his younger brother., then they both fight. My 22 year old son gets frustrated with the whole scene and I am stuck in the middle. I have tried the taking DS and earning them only when they have done their chores. But my 7 year old refuses to do anything. Help I am at my wits end.
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Hey there,
I seem to have had the same issues to a tee as everyone else... 8 yr old boy, 2 other kids, great in school... Scary as all **** when he is home.

Most of us seem to have an xbox or ps3 or some other form of video game entertainment. I am a very watchful parent. And in watching my son play on these, I got the feeling they might be contributing to the issues.

So I took away the one game he always plays (Black-ops) which he can play/talk/interact with adults, who are rude, cuss if you mess up, call you stupid, or fat just to **** you off, one even told my son he was going to rape his mother, all because he was losing.  He threw a fit for about 2 hours then picked a different game.
He  has not played that game or any other game you can talk to others in, in about 3 weeks...And guess what...I have my son back,
no tantrums, no throwing  things, no screaming, no bickering with his brother, he is happy.
I really do think it is because he was playing with teenage/adult males in this game who don't seem to consider it wrong to belittle an 8 yr old...
Try it out for a week, just the main game, let him play the others and see what it does...

Goodluck everyone!!!
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I agree with you that the way some of these games speak doesnt help.   I'm so very glad to hear that things have gotten better since you pulled the games from your son.    

I wish that I could pinpoint the cause with my son.  He usually plays on his DSi game which, as far as I know, doesnt talk back to you.  He has a Wii, but whether on the computer, DSi, or Wii games.  But my son isnt allowed to play anything rated over E10 for 10 year olds.  I'm absolutely appalled at the violence and language that they put on these games nowdays, especially ones that have superheros on them that only children would want to play, not teenagers.  I think that nowdays kids see so much violence between video games and TV, that they start to become de-sensitized to it.  I dont ever want him to feel like violence isnt a "big deal".  We treat each other with too much hate in this world.  I am by no means saying that all kids who play violent video games will become violent.  I think thats just silly.  But I think that the more children grow up thinking that it isnt a big deal, the more "acceptable" it becomes when they see it in other people. Before you know it, no one stands up for anyone else and everyone just walks away as if it is perfectly fine to see someone enflict physical damage to someone else.   So aside from some mild cartoon violence, he isn't getting it from the video games.   I hope so very much that you have found the cause early on for your son's behavior and have been able to stop it. I thinks that's wonderful!!!
If anyone else has found ways to explain/stop this behavior, please share it


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Hi.  I think games can be the source of some behavioual issues but like Natesmom616 my son does not play violent games.  I have read the book that was mentioned by sandman2 and he def has ADD without the hyperactivity.  I suggest that this should be first port of call if the problems have been for a long while and pre-date the x-box.  I think it is going to be invaluable to me now I have had a good read.
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   Hi, sorry, I kind of lost track of this post - I'm not ignoring you.  you've got some good questions that will take a bit of time to answer.  I also want to re read a few of your posts.  So definitely will get back to you in probably 24 hours or less.
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       Hi, I went back through all your posts and saw that you were from the UK - so ignore my last questions.
    Gonna start with some basic answers to your questions and then try and get more specific to your child (as I re read your posts).  I'll probably post to both sites as this may help some of the other people.
     You had a very good question, when you asked about rewards.  And I must admit, I loved your sons response when he said, "he is not bothered about rewards and can live without them and as he probably will get no stars anyway what's the point!"  That is a kid that is being really honest and also someone with pretty good intelligence.  And I have seen a number of kids just like him!
     That is why that after 37 or so years as a  teacher and principal and another 14 or so as a soccer coach - I have never been a big fan of rewards.  However, I am a huge fan of noticing success and immediately rewarding it via praise or whatever.  I firmly believe that you want to reward success immediately!  This means that you have to be watching, communicating, with the child.   Typically reward means a bribe to do something.  "find Moammar Gadhafi" and you get a million or so bucks.  But what if you don't want to find him or don't need the money?  Well, somebody may want the money, but the point is that its a bribe and sooner or later, the bride won't work and you have to up the reward.  
   Ashley suggests the use of rewards as a means of making the point system chart work.  All experts say how important it is for kids with AD/HD to "Clearly defined schedules and routines."  For a younger child a chart is an important tool.  By age 9 or 10, I'm not as sure that it is as important (depending on the severity of the ADHD) as things like reminders via post its, white boards, email, etc.  Point being that the use of rewards are a way to make the point system chart work and I think that he is past that age.  Plus, he pretty well told you that it won't work.
   Speaking of his statement.  Its a very sad statement, but common.  Unfortunately, he has been beat down enough (probably more through school), that he has begin to give up hope.  When he said, "he probably will get no stars anyway what's the point!"  That hits it perfectly!  I really think for him you have got to start rebuilding his confidence.  Ya, gotta start small.  His self confidence has been pretty well shattered and it needs to be rebuilt.  It won't happen overnight.  But it can happen.  But I am getting ahead of my self.
    You asked, "Is it too late to modify behaviour at 10 as a parent?  ie suddenly everything that was expected as a right becomes a reward?  It is not too late to modify their behavior.  In fact, I would much rather try and change the behavior of a 10 year old then a 6 year old.  Mainly because the 10 year old has more control over themselves.  Unfortunately, they also have more intelligence and years of manipulating you.   The second part of the question is tougher because, ya - what was a right is now not?  Normally (and I am getting ahead of myself here, but I don't want you to make any sudden decisions), I would say "its not a right".  However, in this case, it seems to be his only escape from a pretty nasty world.  I think he needs it.  It needs to be monitored.  I would definitely make it a point that he does at least one physical activity on the xbox before starting (not bowling) something that makes him move.  You may have to buy the pad for that.  I would also look into guitar hero if he doesn't already have that (buy headphones for him).  By the way, I mention guitar hero because it is instantaneous.  Games of strategy can cause kids to loose interest.  Even I can do guitar hero (on the very simple level).  So no!  don't make it a reward (yet).  
    You asked about changing behavior.  Yes! behavior can be changed.  It takes immediate, consistent, reinforcement for a period of at least 3 weeks to do so.  However! that is if it is a learned behavior.  A child with ADHD has behaviors that are not learned, but caused by their brain chemistry.   That list would include:    
* difficulty sustaining and paying attention to tasks at home or school;
* making careless errors, not following through with tasks or completing instructions;
* being easily distracted;
* look like they aren't listening;
* being easily bored;
* being forgetful, losing things;
* having difficulty organizing tasks, activities, or belongings;
* being fidgety, difficulty remaining seated;
* talking excessively;
* running or climbing about excessively when it is inappropriate to do so;
* having difficulty awaiting his/her turn in a game or activity;
* interrupting or intruding on others;
* avoiding or disliking doing things that take a lot of effort for a long time.

      And unless, the child is taking medication, these behaviors are very difficult to change.  Thus, all experts say to very carefully choose your fights.  There are some things that you need to ignore, must ignore because the child has not control over them.  These things can be changed if you take the time to roll play, reinforce the good behavior, and repeat, repeat, repeat.   But it has to become literally a part of the childs nature, and that is hard to do.  So you pick one behavior that he does appear to have control over and work on that.
    I recently found a very good site for parenting kids with adhd.  The site is ....
....  http://www.rxlist.com/tips_for_parenting_a_child_with_adhd/page3.htm
    I am pretty much in tune with what they have to say.  So far, I would say that the only thing they left out is that when doing the consequences - make sure you don't have too many of them.  You need to start with a very few things and then when those are conquered, you add new ones.
    That's about it for tonight.  I will now go back over your posts and try and make some specific recommendations.  Oh, and do reread chapters 8 and 9, particularly chapt. 9.  Best wishes!!!
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stop with the shots. mercury in all these vaccinations is one cause. the other is red 40 an artificial color in most non organic sweets. google it! these children are under intense mind control by our shadow gov. start researching everthing!!!
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     Red dye is certainly a proven problem with some kids.  Saying to stop all shots is highly irresponsible!  The whole up roar over vaccinations has been proven to be false.  
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hi im having similar trouble with my 8 year old son been very angry for a bout a year now and has now got to the stage where i dread spending time with him which is awful! He screams and shouts at me and my husband and his two younger brothers. He constantly pushes, hits, punches and kicks everything and everyone in his way. Its so upsetting. I spoke to his teacher last year as he threatened to wrap a blanket round his neck to kill himself, The teacher said he is so well behaved at school no outbursts at all. A family liasion officier spoke to him and she was useless telling me the only problem he has was about playing football. He does not play on computer games so it cant be that that started it. Not sure what to do next do i take him to doctors or not? please any advice would be so helpful x
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My 8 yr old daughter sounds SO much like some of the kids you all have written about. She is wonderful in school and gets straight A's and is just so well behaved there. But at home or out in public at a restaurant, for example and she doesn't get her way, watch out! will throw things and cause major scenes. It's almost like she has to be in control of everything. It is very embarrassing and I don't know what to do anymore. She has been a handful since birth. I can only think of maybe one or two days in her whole life that she hasn't cried and threw a fit for some reason. My feeling is if she had ADHD, why would she be able to control it at school?
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Hello, we've been dealing with this exact same behavior with our daughter for several years. She's now 11 yrs old. The part about "holding it in at school" is not bizarre. Its actually quite common. Then when they get home, where they feel safe, they "let it all out". Mood swings, tantrums, frustration, extreme highs and lows, happiness or giddiness that is almost obnoxious, and then being sullen and angry...  these are the classic symptoms of child with bipolar disorder. Most doctors are reluctant to diagnose children this young, but they're finding that many children that were originally diagnosed with ADHD are being re-diagnosed as bipolar. So yes. Go to your pediatrician first because you'll most likely need a referral for the psychiatrist. If your pediatrician doesn't listen... Find another one who will!
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I am shocked no one has mentioned testosterone rages and for girls a mix of raging hormones. Boys start getting "testosterone blurts" around 7. Check the hair on your sons legs...has it grown, is it more corse.darkened? Think of how we are (ladies) before our periods. Most I know aren't fun to be around. Now mix that with being controlled by parents, teachers, maybe bullied at school ,never feeling good enough because kids today don't get to be kids and relax once in awhile. My son too has a few tantrums (which is why I came here) but giving him a safe place to "let it out" usually does it. If it turns into a rage then I remind him of the boundaries and call time out. Mostly the last things these kids want or need frankly is to be left alone in judgment with these huge overwhelming feelings. I am not of course talking about tourettes/asperger/etc. We the adults are supposed to show them how to do it....  handle the big feelings. And for those that spank??? well I guarantee there is NOTHING worse for a child's self esteem...and is lingers even if you are no longer spanking. The rage that comes from being hit when the whole entire reason the child is raging is usually to get attention or has leaked his rage from being hit (oh spanked if you need to somehow soften the action) Hitting is hitting ....you will only get fear and rage if you hit when a child is in need of guidance to learn to handle big feelings. Maybe because you can't handle his /her feelings you have to gain power by spanking??? I say you are the ones in need of therapy and meds...and fast before you ruin your childs life. No need to answer just do it... you know you are wrong. I won't be coming back to this board so don't bother trying to justify the unjustifiable or answer this post. The only out I can give you is you were obviously abused and are just passing it on...nice legacy...why don't you try something else you can actually be proud of.
The rest who might be interested in the fact that every child gets raging hormones around this age can investigate that since you are obviously open to helping not hitting a child in pain(rage is pain hidden if you don't get it hitters)
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To every single person that is feeling like your child might have something more medical in nature going on please please please take your child to a Lyme literate doctor.  My daughter had all of these symptoms(and more) and I am just so thankful that I knew enough to question the medical community that was diagnosing her all wrong.  We know she has Lyme Disease (and other co-infections) and we have seen all of the crazy behaviors that just don't make sense given who she is and how she is being raised.  (I say this knowing that there are many of you that truly have tried everything and really are good parents and still have a child with anxiety or rage issues.  We get it.)  Rage, anxiety and depression are probably of the more common symptoms of Lyme disease yet your regular  doctor will likely never figure it out and should you bring it up they will likely stop listening to you altogether.  That is why you need to seek out a "Lyme Literate doctor".  It has likely saved our daughters life.  

Try gathering information at www.underourskin.com (the site for a documentary about Lyme and why it doesn't get diagnosed.) or www.ILADS.com.  PS if your child also has an "auto immune" disease or even food allergies please know that this only makes the Lyme diagnosis more certain.  

I stumbled upon this site and decided to post because I know that many of you are going through what we have and I can only hope that this information helps someone.
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Many similar issues with my 8 y.o. boy - good behavior in school, short fuse and big tempertantrums at home. Erg. I am going to try the Omega-3 idea and maybe a child psyc.

One practical question for all of you. I agree that timeouts can help. Our main strategy is removing privaligages which works well except during tantrums when he does not seem to care. However, what do you do when a timeout is not possible. For example, we are late getting out the door for school, or (as happened this morning) he has just gotten up grumpy and if I give him a timeout he will likely fall back asleep. Any suggestions on putative strategies in these situations would be great.

Thank you all for your thoughtful and empathetic posts.
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I have a 7 year like this.  I noticed there was a problem 4 years ago. Getting other family members on the same page is a different story.  I have done so much research on these issues in the past years it is unbelievable.  unfortunetly these problems progress as time goes by.  Academically these children are highly intellegent, and become manipulative and persuasive.  Becareful that your child the straight A student does not start getting incompletes.  Timeouts start being a joke because they no longer care.  Positive reinforcement will become abused because if they are good one day out of 7 and you don't think this is acceptable well your child does.  Spankings will add to this childs aggression towards you and other children.  Other people will only tell you what you want to hear to spare your feelings and eventually stop coming to you events and even forbid their children to play with yours.  2 years ago they were capable of making friends soon other children will not want to play with them on their own.  your child that had such love for animals before will start being cruel to them when others are not looking.  They will start getting in your adult conversations and making their own opinions on things they have no idea what they are talking about.  If they are already saying the most horrible things to you wait until the few remain friends that you still have start getting those same comments.

Things to look into:  counseling for yourself, childs psych for your child,  conduct disorder, opposition defiance disorder, anger management, family history of this kind of behavior.  When you start getting 2 steps forward you can get 10 steps back for getting out of the rutine that you are about to establish.  God luck to everyone.

  
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I know this original post is old, but I thought I would add my two cents.  I just want to let everyone know that I was just like all of your kids.  I had all the issues you're listing here.  And I did exceptionally well in school.  

I am now 34.  I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at age 28, and I was on mood stabilizers for a while (I stopped taking them when I started trying to have a child.  I am now 5 months pregnant.)  Now I think about my unborn baby, and I know now what my parents didn't:  that these symptoms manifest very early in life.  I know to be aware and watchful of these, and not do what my parents did.  Back in the early 80's, it wasn't understood that children could have mental disorders, especially as complex as bipolar disorder.  It was the worst in my teenage years and my early twenties.  During my depressive periods, I was brushed off by my parents for just being "dramatic".  They enjoyed my manic periods, because I was funny and entertaining.  It never occurred to them that I was anything but a normal kid/teenager/young adult.

I learned just how "off" I'd always been when I started taking the medication (the one that I eventually stayed with was Lamictal).  For the first time in my entire life, I felt normal, in control of my emotions.

I wish more was understood about manic depressive children when I was a child.  It might have saved me a lot of heartache (not the mention all the drugs I took in my youth.  I now understand that I was desperately attempting to self-medicate.)

I found this thread by doing a google search for my own behavior issues as a child.  I was astonished to see all of you describe me and my behavior to a T.  

So get your children to a psychiatrist!  Mood stabilizers are not like anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medications.  They don't alter your personality at all.  They're mild.  They just make it easier to regulate your emotions, and remain on an even keel.  They're the same things as anti-convulsants; medication they give to people with epilepsy, to control seizures.  My sister, who has epilepsy, has been on them since she was 3 years old.  

Anyway, just wanted to let you know what your children may be going through.  I hope I helped.

For the record, I have been with my husband for 8 years, have been working for the same company for 15.  I participate in a team sport, I have hobbies, I have a lot of friends.  I have a very stable life.  So it's not too serious, and they can become well-adjusted, happy adults.  Just try to get them the help they need.
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    Very interesting post!  Thank you for the information.  Just being curious what drugs did they try on you when you were younger.  I am guessing they were either the ADHD meds which made you hyper or  the others which made you a zombie.  An ya, in the 80's they didn't have a clue.
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Sandman2, they never put me on any drugs, that was the problem.  They never took my behavior as a serious indicator that something could be wrong with me, they just assumed that I was a dramatic child.  It was hard to understand back then that children could be in large amounts of mental pain and anguish for no reason.  Depression and anxiety were "grown-up diseases."
I remember feeling crushing depression when I was only 10, and having suicidal thoughts, and locking myself in the bathroom, talking to myself to try to get myself out of it, and my mother thought I was just being dramatic again, looking for attention.  My parents had no idea.
When I became a teenager, the manic and the depressive episodes became way more intense, and that's when I started "self-medicating" with street drugs.  I was so smart, and had such good grades before I started doing drugs.  I would do any drugs I could get my hands on, at any time.  In high school it was hallucinogens and ecstasy, and after high school I developed a problem with meth.  I finally got clean of all drugs when I was about 20.  I realized that the drugs exacerbated my problems in the end.
It wasn't until I got into a healthy relationship (with my now husband) that I realized that I had a real problem and I had to seek treatment.  3 therapists and a series of trial and error mood stabilizers got me on the right track.
It's still a struggle, especially now that I'm off the medication because I'm pregnant.  But I always think of how closely I'm going to watch my child as she's growing, and to be aware of any of the signs that she's acting out because of inner turmoil.  Children aren't just dramatic for attention, they act out because they know that something is wrong with the way they're feeling, and they don't know how to express themselves.
So all of you parents on here whose children are acting in these confusing ways, please get your child to a psychiatrist for diagnosis.  And do watch out for the old, standard "ADD" or "ADHD" diagnoses.  The medication for those disorders would be the worst things for a child who is possibly bipolar.  (stimulants provoke manic episodes, just like anti-depressants, which will lead to eventual lows that will be so much more intense.)  
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my 7yr old he is bully at school um stessing a lot cause @  school they told me if he doesn't come right thy are going to expell him from school please help i need advice.
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What things does the school have in place to deal with it zaza?  What things have been tried?  
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Hi - I am experiencing almost the exact same behavior with my 8 year old son.  I notice your post has been about a year ago.  Did this just turn out to be an 8 year old thing?  I am very interested in hearing if this a normal behavior.  Thanks!
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My 8 year old son is acting weird as well.He was born with a sliver spoon in his mouth and still eats from it.He is our only child and will be the only child.He is very withdrawn from everything around him.Example...We could be having a awesome time at building Lego's or playing some video game.He will get up and grab a drink or something and totally ignore me and not want to play anymore.I have tried to have him interact with other children his age around our neighborhood but he does not do well with that either.He says they are babies or that they are stupid.He is not a bully and he is not a mean hearted person.Our doctor thinks it is just age.I disagree !!! Does anyone have any suggestions ????
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Are these social difficulties new?  
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   How do his school teachers say he interacts with the kids at lunch time or during recess?
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What is Udo's DHA oil? I am so worried about my child. I think she might be bipolar. Got to try something besides drugs.
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- lastly, i am considering the possibility of bi-polar for my daughter.. although i am heavily against any medication and very much against this clinical labeling of children, i am open to this possibility, and offer this as something to look into for others.. reason is that my father was a severe bi-polar with psychosis.. i witnessed him exhibit every single trait to the extreme.. i have some traces of this myself, although it's moderate and i'm highly aware of my own ups & downs.. really, for me i'm just pretty much ecstatically happy more often than not and i have a love affair with life, coupled with short lived downturns.. if they could bottle up my brain chemistry & sell it, it'd be preferable to any anti-depressants out there ;) .. my daughter is ecstatically joyful & happy most of the time, coupled with (lately) these tantrums.. it is possible that my daughter may have inherited this, and it is a factor

- i mention bi-polar because it may help some get some peace of mind or some needed help, but i think more importantly we need to be able to see through these clinical labels, and challenge the paradigms set by society.. we need to believe in the inherent beauty, divinity & greatness of our children, and not buy into this ********.. our children are special & gifted, and it's up to us to find more & better ways to support & LOVE them (not control & devastate) and i really think medication should be the absolute last resort.. and spanking should never be resorted to under any circumstances

i'm also dropping a link to my personal blog for those who are interested - www.bigbeautifulbuddha.com
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this is part 1 of my comment - above is part 2 - this whole post got messed up b/c it's too long, and i'm having strange issues with it

wow.. it's simultaneously disheartening and enlightening to see so many others having these challenges with their children.. my heart truly goes out to you all.. we are exhausted & also in shock with her behavior.. our 9 year old daughter perfectly fits most of the descriptions here.. however our parenting style and lifestyle we've provided for her is drastically different than the "norm" - so i'd like to offer a different viewpoint for everybody.. i don't necessarily have any answers as i'm seeking answers myself, but hope that my perspective sheds light for some

our sweet, beautiful angelic daughter has always been perfect in our eyes, and everybody loves her to death.. she has been given an immense amount of love, affection & support.. she is home-schooled and has been fortunate enough to spend virtually every day with mommy & daddy for the last 4 years, and every day with mommy since birth.. we've taken her out of the "system" due to the pressures to conform & psychological impact of the schooling system.. she is most definitely gifted, highly intelligent, creative beyond belief, has always easily engaged adults in conversations, and is absolutely joyful & full of light.. she is intuitive and as most others have mentioned, INCREDIBLY *sensitive* ...

for the first 5-6 or so years of her life it was smooth sailing with no issues or concerns.. it's been slowly building for the last probably 2 years and now it's almost a daily meltdown.. with the love she's been given, if this can happen to her/us, i feel it can happen to anyone, so you're definitely not alone!!!

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i also am seeing the *jekyll & hyde* comparison mentioned quite a bit & this is exactly what we're experiencing.. she goes into an unconscious state where she has absolutely no ability to reason, no control whatsoever over her emotions - uncontrollable crying, uncontrollable anger.. threats of consequences, taking away privileges etc. only enrage her more & she's immune to them in this "state".. she says nasty things to us such as "you're the worst mother ever", "i hate you" etc., that i can't even take seriously because i know it's not "her".. just the last few days she's been saying things like "i wish i was never born", "i hate myself", "i'm not beautiful", "i'm an embarassment", "i'm the worst daughter ever", and the most alarming thing she's said is "please god take me from this world back to where i came from".. she even starting speaking her own language during one incident that she calls "angelic".. she hits, kicks, and bites - she's even kicked me in the face

she has literally passed out and lost consciousness (scary stuff) - only to awaken and not even remember what happened.. when she acts like this, she is a different person, as if possessed.. once she snaps back she feels incredibly terrible & shameful.. she cries uncontrollably and feels terrible remorse for what she's done.. she has no control over it, and she's devastated when she realizes what she's done.. she tries her hardest to deflect blame & make it all our fault, but she eventually caves in and it's heartbreaking to see her breakdown, at this point she just wants to be cuddled and loved, and it's exactly what we do

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part 3

we've allowed her incredible freedom to be herself & express herself freely.. we chose this for her having reflected on mistakes we made with my wife's older kids who i'm the stepfather of - they are now adults and this is our 3rd child raising together.. now that we're having these increasing episodes we're wondering if it's backfiring & if we've done the wrong thing by giving her TOO MUCH freedom, spoiling her, always saying yes and choosing our battles.. but i feel better about that now seeing how so many others are having these challenges

so with all of that being said, i'd like to offer some opinions & perspective:

- first, it may benefit you to google "indigo children" ... there is a lot of information out there about this, and resources for parenting them.. it's passed off by critics, but for us it feels right, all things considered.. we feel our daughter is a very unique soul, and is here for a reason.. indigos are independent, strong-willed, highly intelligent & resistent to control

- the main issue here is in fact "control".. our daughter's meltdowns all start when she hears "no", when we she doesn't get what she wants - (same as you all have mentioned), or when we are forcibly demanding.. NO human being wants to be controlled! we all naturally want to be free, and it doesn't feel good to be told "NO".. from a philosophical standpoint i think all of our kids with these behaviors are simply telling us that they want to be free spirits & don't want to be controlled.. believe me, i believe firmly in consequences, and accountability in the best interest of the child's growth, but do not believe in an authoritarian approach of controlling our children
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Part 4

- this age range of 8-10 is a really tough transitional stage where they are shedding their early childhood comforts & securities and stepping into a new realm of having to be responsible for their actions & feelings.. in early childhood it's always playtime, and feel good time, and children are not expected to be held accountable.. they're now developing cognitive functions that allow them to see their faults and are facing a new challenge of being made aware of them & being asked to be more responsible for them.. i believe this is a main cause.. our daughter still ***** her thumb, still wants to cuddle and sleep with us every night.. she often will talk like a 4 year old and watch videos i took of her in her first 5 years to remember the joyful times when there was no scolding, no accountability, just pure happiness love & joy.. i believe it's our responsibility to be sensitive & aware of this difficult transition that they are facing

- if you really stop and think, we live in a pretty sh)tty world where we're indoctrinated into a school system, and enslaved as adults as cogs in a machine.. all of the discipline we're trying to instill, as well as the medical labels such as adhd etc. are all based on being able to survive and thrive in this sick world.. any condition that doesn't enable you to robotically fall into line and perform as a brick in the wall is labeled as a disease or ilness.. if you really think about it isn't it quite natural for a child who comes from joy & purity to rebel against this conformity? against this tarnishing of the soul?... all of us on this thread have intelligent kids and are made to believe something is "wrong" with them when it could very well be that this defiance and rebellion to being asked to "grow up" into THIS society is maybe what's "right" with them
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    Ya, you may have hit the nail on the head in part 3 of your post.   Smart kids learn how to manipulate.  They don't really do it on purpose, its just a way to get what they want.  If they learn early that screaming gets them what they want - they just keep screaming.  And along the way, they don't learn how to self regulate.
   If you look through some of the more recent posts on temper tantrums, you will find that what your daughter is doing is pretty similar to other kids.  I tend to doubt that bipolar is the reason, but I would need to know more about her.
   I suggest you get the book  called "Raising Lions", by Joe Newman.  If you go to his web site and subscribe to his newsletter you can get $3.00 off the book.  The site is http://raisinglions.com/.    I think the methods he describe will really help you (no meds are involved).   Hope this helps.!
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in lieu of the trajedy that has made us all so sensitive to the sickness in this world:

dear sick world that suppresses our souls, institutionalizes us, programs us into machines for profit, causes us all so much suffering & pain, and as of late is now causing our kids to commit mass murders.. i would rather my precious, sensitive, divine angelic daughter pass & return to the realm of everlasting peace & love that she came from than to become infected by your pain & sickness.. as i now see so much clearer how we're all absorbing & playing out the conditioning, programming, and pain of the past.. we're operating from viruses passed onto us based on ideas of control, and we are inflicting pain on our kids.. we're "forcing" them to "grow up" into this world of pain.. we're causing them and ourselves so much pain & misery by enforcing discipline, enforcing bed times, telling them what they can & cannot eat, and robbing them of the very freedom they came here to experience.. we send them to miltary school to "break them down" and make them conform.. we as parents are in fear.. we've become victims of the fear based failed concepts passed down to us.. we fear that our kids will not "make it" in this world, we fear that they'll suffer, we fear that they won't be able to handle this "real" world so we train them.. we prepare them, we structure them, discipline them, give them consequences, instill fear & demand respect.. we rob their souls of it's natural authentic free flowing expression.. we shame them, we guilt them, we put expectations on them, and we shame them more when they fail.. we tell them to stop acting like babies.. we tell them to respect & honor us.. guess what? these kids know MORE THAN US.. they came to us from a realm of pure light, divine love, and freedom.. their souls are kicking & screaming, not because you told them NO, but because they KNOW what doesn't feel RIGHT

we're infected, we're perpetuating the cycles of suffering & guilt and shame, pain & blame.. we're using our kids to fulfill our own voids, our own brokenness and pain from the karma & programming instilled into us, from the loss our own souls

stop the madness.. break the cycle.. be the change.. evolve.. heal

www.bigbeautifulbuddha.com
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This is crazy the same thing has just happened to my son almost word for word in the past few months but he has now progressed to spitting in my face and as of last night urinated himself and then threw is wet clothes at me,He has also started leaving bruises and punching me in the head and face.I have just contacted his school and they have referred me to a child psychologist in the area,it seemed to stem from an incident where a teenage buoy shot him with a paintball gun and then he was bullied by 2 older boys who held him down and fed him grass.I have gone on for nearly 2 months now but can no longer cope as I am now afraid of my 8 year old son,I will let you know if this helps but I really feel for you as I truely understand.
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   This sounds a lot like post traumatic stress as a result of the bullying.  The school needs to be much more involved.  They need to let your son know that he is safe.  They need to protect him!   ( I assume these things happened at school).  A child psychologist will help.  By the way, if this did happen at school, they also should be paying for the psyc.
  Hope your son gets better soon.
   You might want to consider buying some of Aldof Moser's books like "Don't pop your cork on Mondays".  And reading it with your child.
          http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Pop-Your-Cork-Mondays/dp/0933849184/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t
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We do spank!! doesn't phase the kid!!  I think you need to re-read some of the comments. The parents are saying they have spanked and that it really isn't working. There is something else wrong!!
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Hi everyone.  I have a 7 year old boy who is doing the same thing. He is such a smart kid, very social, does great in school. But when at home, if he does not get what he wants, a switch goes off in his head and he becomes unbearable. He punches, kicks, pinches,bites. It's really hard on the rest of the family. I just made an appointment with his Dr. as we need some help! I thought he would get better but he is getting worse. He now will act out like this in front of my in laws. Something he never would have done in the past. But like many others have said, he definitely can control when and where he will act out. Spanking does NOT work. I am so frustrated.
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Oh how I cringe when reading all the drugs we are cramming down our babies. I wish more people would listen to what you are saying!!! My 8 yr old is exactly like these others on this thread. I have had hair samples and saliva testing.... Tons of over the top toxins, heavy metals I. Body and food allergies. Our naturopath said 99% of behavior issues come from food allergies and toxin build up in body results in the irrational behavior , short circuiting so to speak in our children
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My son's issues aren't food related.  I went the route of determining that.  my son has sensory integration disorder.  Looks a lot like add/adhd.  you do occupational therapy to treat this along with behavior modification.  Worked very well for my son who is now 9 and doing very well.  He's never needed medication but the answer wasn't so simple as changing his diet.  It did take a good amount of effort and work that my husband and I and my son (who had to do a lot of the things we asked of him) to conquer his challenges.  Every child is different though.  I imagine that most people are doing the best they can for their child.  Some may needlessly being medicated and I certainly wouldn't enter into that without a ton of knowledge and skepticism.  however, there are some kids that do better on medication and they themselves are significantly happier.  

the 99% number is inaccurate (proof?) and yes, what you'd expect from a naturopath (a group that does like to make a lot of promises and take a ton of money for them).  But agree that I'm sure some behavior issues are related to multiple things and aren't all just add/adhd.  My son is case in point.  

luck to all parents trying to help their children.  
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Wow, I did a Google Search for 8 year old tantrums and came upon this forum. Although I have not read all, I feel that I have read enough to know that I am not alone here. I have cried, yelled, whispered, practiced breathing (his magic square and my own therapy tool box) I have stood "seemingly unfazed by the behavior" I have rationalized, taken toys away, read books (together and apart) on and on and on, in less than a two year period.
I am a 36 year old Woman, who spent the majority of her "adulthood" in the Army. From 1997 to 2011 I was SSG Marr. Then after a third deployment, comes home broken in spirit and body. I was rescued by a stray dog's pups (My now three year old dog.) and a Young single Father.

I look back over the last two years and how I became WE. A strange concept because I do not have biological children, I have a Dog who is very much my child however he is becoming the best friend of a young boy who stole my heart.       AND THEN.....WHAM-MO

In the last 6 months I have exhausted every avenue I can think of and the Counselor we see constantly chuckles and has reading material for me because I always ask, "where is the manual". "What book do I need to read, how can I study for this test that is a child?"

Today I was reassured at his weekly counseling session when I learned that sometimes "in children it can get worse before it gets better", I laugh because we all have the potential to be like that.
This weeks lessons have been, why it is dangerous to Huck an air hockey puck, even though you didn't mean to hit anyone because you were only throwing the puck because you were frustrated at the game. but ended up hitting someone in the face ......sound familiar anyone?
Then after his father talks to him, he apologizes to me and for the next few days, hours, minutes, he clings to me telling me how much he loves me.
I really don't know. In my stations I know there are extenuating circumstances that any child may have difficulty adjusting to, however (the medic in me) says that if a child poses a risk to harm himself or someone else, we have a responsibility and in my case, coming into a ready made family, the only experience I have is being the oldest of 5. I'm flabbergasted and maybe old fashion.
If I can offer any encouragement! I am holding strong (with the help of a wonderful father/fiance) and a great support group within the family and within the team of counselors, therapist, psychiatrists and pediatricians. Our Son is a very well mannered, smart, witty, funny and sweet young boy. The "jeckle" that has come out in the last 6 months is frightening. I don't have an answer yet, only empathy, understanding, and a bond with people seeking the same answers.
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    What a heartfelt post.  Thank you.   And, yes, most of the parents who have posted here really wished they had a manual telling them what to do.  This  topic has been off my radar for a while and I was amazed to see that I had been posting here for close to 4 years!  And in looking back over the many posts, not a lot has changed in those times.
    It sounds like you have a great support system.  Just in case they haven't thought of it - let me add one or two things.
    Many of the posts here are from parents whose kids have been driving them batty for several years and they are finally at the  breaking period.  If I read your post correctly, It sounds like this has been really only going on for about 6 months?  If you read some of the other posts on this forum, you will find that Specialmom and I talk a lot about "triggers".  The thing that sets off the child.  Usually if something has been going on with the child and it was not a problem or much of a problem a year earlier - then looking for that trigger is really important.
   Sometimes it is as simple as the mother is either expecting or a new born is now at the age where they need constant attention.  In other words the child is competing for attention and usually what he has found to be effective through trial and error.  Smart kids are very good at this.
   Sometimes it could be a medical problem.  Thyroid issues for example.  But usually it is more sleep related.  Enlarged tonsils or adenoids (adenoids) which cause lack of sleep and make the child really, really, really cranky.  I can think of several parents who had this checked out and it was the cause.  They had no idea that their child had this problem.
   The other thing is something like ADHDjor ADD.  You will notice several posts in this thread where that turned out to be what the problem was.  Granted I see more of this happening over on the ADHD forum where I am also the CL, but it does happen here to.
     Many times it is with a child who is not hyper and is intelligent.  They have been getting by in school with their basic intelligence, but are slowly losing ground.  The trouble is they know that something is not right.  The older they get, the more frustrated they get.  In fact, as a 5th grade teacher, the child's frustration was one of my best clues that something was going on.   The reason I mention this is that around 4th grade the child really begins to react to what this is doing to him.   I guess it was the throwing of the air hockey puck that made me think of this.  Kids do get mad (they need to be taught how to deal with anger too) and throw things.  Its just that kids with ADHD do a lot more things without taking the time to think about it.
    And, finally he may just be using his intelligence to kind of take control through a trial and error process of finding out what works for him.  If you haven't had it recommended to you.  One book we recommend a lot is
        Love and Logic by Fey and Cline.  It is a great system.
    So a few more things to think about (that you may have already thought about).  If you need more information about any of these things, please post.   Best wishes!!!!
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I am going through the same thing right now. Honor student, no issues at school... He has had two concussions in the past year, we moved from our home to an apartment and back to our home all within a six month span. He was in a new school for about a month before we moved back.
I kept thinking it was the very emotional summer we had, but the anger is getting more significant even now that our lives have stabilized.
I wish I had some words of wisdom or even things we have tried that seem to work, but I am in the same situation and would welcome any advice!
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   The age of your child is significant in dealing with these problems.  So how old is he?  
    School can be very stressful for even a honor student if it is a new school or a new grade level.  So, what grade is he in?
    Two concussions is kind of unusual?  What sport is he involved in?
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