8year old with ADHD and Anger issues

[melyman]

Let me start by saying thanks in advance for the help.
My son is eight years old. Two years ago he was diagnosed with ADHD and we began treatment with 15mg Adderall XR. Things were going good it’s helped him tremendously in school but there are a few issues we just can’t seem to shake.

He still poops his pants on occasion and I constantly find finger smears of stool on his bedroom walls and around the toilet. It drives me nuts because when I ask him why he says he don’t know why he does it. And If I ask with suggestions like Does it hurt to go ? or the like he says yes but I also feel like he just wants to give me an answer and I feel like he really does not know why. It breaks my heart in pieces because his actions our tearing our family apart.

Second he has anger issues. Most of the time he’s happy then the second he gets unhappy his bottom lip sticks out and he gets mad and will refuse to listen or do anything he is told. For example the other day he did not want to listen to the providers at the day care got mad and kicked a chair. So I spoke with the providers and they said they removed his privilege from playing the video game system because of his previous actions.  So the next day arrives and he wants to play the video game the provider reminds him that he may not due to losing that privilege and he immediately gets angry kicks something and completely shuts down. Then he won’t respond to talking he just shuts off. It seems to go from 0-60 in two seconds and it’s so hard to figure out how he’s feeling or why he is choosing these actions. He always says he don’t know. Well I don’t know either.

We see a psychologist and a psychiatrist but they are not as helpful as I would have imagined.
He also has just started Celexa 5mg per day to help with what the therapist thinks is anxiety. He has only been on it for 5 days thus far.

I just don’t know where to turn anymore or what to do I am looking for advice and maybe a few parents out there have had some luck with a method or style of parenting that I may not have tried.

We have tried rewards for doing good
We do time out when his attitude starts to flare, as well as 20 push-ups when he starts being so stubborn it’s out of control. We also do the usual stuff no video games if he had a bad day at school and he has to do extra homework if during the day he refuses to do his work in class like everyone else.
I have also strait busted his rear-end. Because when I was young it straitened me right up. But with him it just does not seem to matter.

I have an extremely open line of communication between everyone in his life from his teacher to his daycare we speak daily and talk about his behavior. I have read books by maybe there is some that I have helped others please let me know. I just can’t take this anymore and I am at my end I have no idea what to do.

[benjimom]

Yes see about the meds.  I would also ask about the bowel movements, does he get constipated and try to disimpact himself?  That might be it and why he has it on his hands, I know it's really gross to deal with.  

Yes, I agree about the video games, take them away that day and if he can do better that day return him to it.  Let him have the chacne to turn the situation around.  It's not easy having kids, is it??  My son can be aggressive too and it pains me to no end to hear about it.  I just feel like what have I done wrong?  

It seems to me like a  lot of people don't have good answers. I need more myself and then when I saw a therapist for my son she did not want him to come back until he was on meds nad so far the psychiatrist has not prescribed meds for my son.  She has suggested I come back, but not my son.  I've pretty much given up on the therapy, I will do my own research, use school personnel, and other professionals to help me.  

[Sandman2]

    The very first thing you should do is get,  "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.  There is just a lot of things in that book that will really help you.  The discipline practices alone will be worth the money.
    Few other quick thoughts - I don't know enough about your son to even began to suggest he go off his meds.  I do wonder about the amount of adderall he is on.  If he has been on the same amount for the last two years, that may need to be adjusted.  It also could explain his behavior at daycare.  Its possible the meds are wearing off and that is leading to his behavior.  Speaking of which - the daycare people seriously need to read the above mentioned book.  You do not discipline an ADHD child by taking away a privilege the next day!  As Ashley states, "Punishment is also more effective if it is given as close to the misbehavior as possible.  It should be swift and last only for a short time."  In my opinion, this goes double for a younger child.  It sounds to me like they don't have a clue how to work with ADHD kids.  The discipline for an ADHD child has to be different.  If the kid can think far enough ahead to realize he is going to lose a privilege the next day, then he doesn't have ADHD. By the same reasoning, he is still a bit too young to punish him at home, for what he did at school.  What you should do at home is model and teach the proper behavior.   (Note: Ashley also gives several good reasons why spanking not only doesn't work, but can make the situation worse).
  I don't know much about the pooping problem, except to suggest that you note when it is happening and see if that correlates to a time when his meds are wearing off or he is not on them at all.
  About his anger.  Its pretty classic stuff.  Scroll through the child behavior posts, and you see comments like that from a lot of parents.  Lots of younger kids pout, kick chairs, give the silence treatment.  Its not the meds doing that.  Its a learned response to what is going on around them and not knowing how to deal with the situation.  Or maybe they have learned that their response works for them.  Either way, once again a lot of good stuff in the above mentioned book to help with this.
  In my opinion, I don't like the 20 pushups at all!  This is an 8 year old, not a middle school or high school student.  Heck, I've taught PE and coached sports for years - and would never use that method.  There really are a lot better, more constructive ways to discipline.
  I really can't believe the psycs haven't given you more direction.  But I guess its kind of typical these days from what I have seen other parents post on the ADHD forum where I normally write.
  So finally, don't give up.  There is a lot you can do to help yourself and him.  I would also think about when he is having some of these problems and see if the medication should be adjusted (if it hasn't been in a year or two).  Good luck.  I'll monitor this post in case you have any other questions.

[margypops]

My opinion is that you get the meds changed it is well catalogued that adderal can, cause anger and the behaviors you describe here, some other parents have put up posts about the effects of these drugs on children, if you scroll down on the ADD and the ADHD forum you will see for your self, now I do know that there are times when meds do work, so I say to you that in my opinion you ask your Doctor about the dosage and about a change, also do some googling, for side effects of Adderal ..good luck its not easy is it, trying to do the best for your child ...Parents have also found that a good Multi-vitamin food supplement  with antioxidants Vit C and Vit B work also Fish oil